Symbolism

[Dandelion]

I was mulling over a conversation I had with someone who seems a little obsessed with the Zombie Apocalypse, and it finally occurred to me that the reason so many people are fascinated by it is that it's symbolic of some of our major fears, such as losing one's mind, physical death, and loss of our individuality.  This lead me to thoughts about how important symbolism is to us.  It's the basis of our physical reality.  We symbolize concepts so we can experience them in new ways and deepen our comprehension of them.  The better we understand the symbolism, both personal and collective symbolism, the better we understand life.

As Seth says (excerpts from the Appendix of Seth Speaks, Session 594):

"You think of thoughts, images, and dreams sometimes as being symbolic of other things, but the truth is that physical objects are themselves symbols.  They are the exterior symbols that stand for the inner experience.

There are, therefore, mass physical symbols upon which you all agree, as well as private, personal symbols.

The whole nature and structure of physical life as you know it, is a symbolic statement made by groups of entities who choose to work with physical symbolism.  So the body is a symbol of what you are, or what you think you are—and these may be two different things indeed.

Any physical ailment is symbolic of an inner reality or statement.  Your entire life is a statement in physical terms, written upon time as you understand it.

Once you understand the symbolic nature of physical reality, then you will no longer feel entrapped by it.  You have formed the symbols, and therefore you can change them.  You must learn, of course, what the various symbols mean in your own life, and how to translate their meaning."

Understanding symbolism (in things like dreams, fiction, and poetry) is something I've struggled with in the past, so most of the time I just ignored it.  But reading the Seth books has really helped me understand some of the symbolism in my life.  Of course, it's still a brand new area for me to explore, and I'm interested in other people's thoughts about symbolism and their experiences with it as it applies to their lives.

[voidypaul]

Hi Dandelion  ;

                being of a voidy sort of nature + believing that all material manifestations come out of the void, i believe that all things + universal manifestations are symbols of the unmanifest aspect of consciousness + for me there is nothing , even on a dreaming level that is not a symbol of this unmanifest self .

                But then there is the diversity of personal symbols that we each indiv'y create as reflections of who + what we think we are in the present lives we lead + as you said ''We symbolize concepts so we can experience them in new ways and deepen our comprehension of them.''    very nicely + accurately put me old flower .

                there is a symbol of a particularly ugly old fish that i get when i know that i am quite deep within the dreaming reality + my personal subcon'   which is good for me as i know i can then go into other layers of or planes of reality which are closer to the entity from which i come .

                The symbol of my body is one i have f'ckd up on somewhat recently but that is just another challenge to overcome + anyway it has given me enuf time on my hands to be able to pester others with all these posts + to get myself ready for my big bad meditation one day so that i might join the dreaming + waking realities into one perceptual awareness , a fine + groovy state of mind to be in , but what symbolism i can put to it im not really sure at this point in time .

               Nice + interesting topic , hope it grows .

[jbseth]

Hi Dandelion,

Great topic. Thanks for starting this.

I have spent some time looking at the symbols in my dreams when I do dream interpretation.
Many years ago I purchased a book on dream symbol interpretation and have used it on occasion. Typically when I'm interpreting my own dreams, I prefer to use my own personal interpretations but sometimes when I'm just not clear about something I'll take a look at the book.  I find the book to be a helpful resource.

Along these lines, here is an internet website on dream symbol interpretation that I just found.
http://www.dreammoods.com/

This website seems pretty good.


Regarding life symbols, I don't spend as much time doing this as I do with dream interpretation.
However, I have recognized that there are some life symbols that I seem to be drawn to.

For example, I really feel at "home" whenever I'm at the beach. I really enjoy meditating there.

I also seem drawn to the moon for some reason. Whenever I see the moon in the sky, like I just did tonight, I seem to experience a whole group of feelings and emotions, simultaneously. Some of these are melancholy and some are upbeat and happy. I can't quite put my finger on this experience, but my sense is that this has something to do with a past life, where I may have spent much time outside in the night.

[jbseth]

Hi All,

Earlier today I found out that Seth says quite a bit about symbols and symbolism in Seth Speaks, Chapter 18 (which begins in the early part of Session 571). Just about the entire chapter talks about symbols.

Here are some of the things that Seth says in this chapter.

"All symbols are an attempt to express feelings, feelings that can never be expressed adequately through language."

"Physical objects are the most obvious of your symbols, and precisely for that reason you do not realize that they are symbols at all."

"Your body is your most intimate symbol at this point, and again your most obvious."

"All symbols stand for inner realities, therefore, and when you juggle symbols, you are juggling inner realities."

[Deb]

You think of thoughts, images, and dreams sometimes as being symbolic of other things, but the truth is that physical objects are themselves symbols.  They are the exterior symbols that stand for the inner experience.

All of these quotes about symbols are great. The one above sums it up for me: everything within my range of senses is an outward symbol of my inner self. I'm getting better at observing things and asking myself why they are the way they are. What does it say about me and my present frame of mind? Why am I creating this? What am I supposed to learn from it? What do I need to do to change it, if that's what I want?

The majority of my presence is pretty darned good and proves to me that I'm fairly good at creation and manifestation on both the subconscious and conscious levels. I observe the pleasing results, but don't dwell on them and they usually maintain status quo. But there are some things that could use improvement, which I tend to focus on and you know what happens then... more of the same.

[jbseth]

Hi Deb,

Just an observation.

Since, "The majority of my presence is pretty darn good" (a feeling) and since, "I observe the pleasing results" (also a feeling), I would say that since Seth says our symbols are an attempt to represent our feelings, then your symbols, must be pretty awesome. 

Way to create your reality    

[Deb]

Well thanks jbseth! That made me smile. Yep, I just need to figure out why I'm 'falling down' where I am. Opportunity for growth, I suppose.

Funny, I was just driving home on the freeway and was observing my drive -- and asking myself, "ok, well if everything I observe is a symbol, then what's the less-obvious reason for that exit sign, or that speed limit sign, or that disabled car, or the piece of trash over there." I could drive myself nuts doing that.

[Deb]

Had this dream last night. You'll probably want to skip most of it, the interesting part (for me) is in the last full paragraph.

I was on an airplane taxi-ing through a greek airport. A stopover (but not plane change for me) from somewhere in Europe on my way back to the states. I was in the very back of the plane, which had full sized glass windows that wrapped around the back of the plane. Very good visibility of the outside surroundings, which was beautiful and interesting. The seating in the plane consisted of metal folding chairs, not bolted down, no seat belts. My thought was that the flight and landings must historically be smooth, so no need to bolt everyone and everything into place.

I was in the very back, there were not many chairs there and I was partially lounging on the floor and thinking it was the most room I'd ever had on a flight. It was very comfortable and I had no doubt I'd be able to sleep on the way home for the first time in my life. There were people I was talking with, we were mostly commenting on the scenery around the plane. A man behind me was pointing out a landmark that had been made famous due to a well-known photographer.

I had time before takeoff to go "upstairs" in the plane to visit a friend (childhood friend I haven't seen in years) in her sleeping quarters. There was a living room type of area at the top of the stairs with regular furniture. Comfortable. Nothing bolted down. There were four bedrooms off this area, but the doors were all closed and I didn't want to disturb anyone that might be sleeping.

This is where it gets interesting:

I went back downstairs to my seating area. I found there was now less room than I'd previously had and couldn't stretch out properly. I looked over to the right side of the plane, directly across from my spot, and there was a man looking at me. Middle-aged, average, nothing special about him other than the third eye in his forehead. I glanced at him, not wanting to stare, and saw a few other people near him that had variations of third eyes in their foreheads. One had even a very small fourth eye. My first thought was not about the spiritual third eye but rather a birth defect. I then saw there was a movie screen towards the front of the plane that was showing a documentary about third eyes -- the explanation being that it was due to an identical, maybe conjoined, twin not being fully formed during gestation and it would be resorbed. But some times it didn't work completely. Similar to people being born with extra limbs coming out of their sternum. I then  understood that there was a group of third-eye people on the flight that were traveling to a third-eye conference of some sort.

If anyone has any input, I'd be interested. I know there are some things in my dream that have been pulled from my daily activities, but I feel there's an obvious association with the big windows, scenery and all those third eyes. I'll probably be thinking about this all day. I'll take a look at the DreamMoods site, while keeping in mind that no one can interpret my dreams as well as I can.

[chasman]

hi Deb,
   just want to mention that I love your posts.
you make me laugh. alot.
and you're always kind and respectful, and say good things.
you never harsh my mellow.
you never say things in a hurtful way.
you are obviously a mature grown up, sensitive good woman.
that means a lot to me.
not everybody's like that.
it makes me really value the people who are.
people can be absolutely brilliant. but then if they continually say things in mean ways, with no concern other people's feelings?
I don't know. bums me out. makes me think they are acting childish. not in a good way.
ok, wanted to get that off my chest.
now, the only thing that comes to mind immediately about your dream, is this:
the stuff about chairs not bolted down makes me think of (I will do my best to describe....):
- lack of control. think about it. you're flying through the air. fast. and the chairs aren't bolted down? that old gravity thing, as well, forces like momentum and such........basic physics things........well hopefully you understand what I'm trying to say
- freedom. by which I mean, that you're not bolted or tied down. you are just free flying, or free wheeling, or free being or free somethin'.   hahahaha

peace and joy and pizza and super awesome chocolate chip cookies and ice cream,
Charlie

[jbseth]

I went back downstairs to my seating area. I found there was now less room than I'd previously had and couldn't stretch out properly. I looked over to the right side of the plane, directly across from my spot, and there was a man looking at me. Middle-aged, average, nothing special about him other than the third eye in his forehead. I glanced at him, not wanting to stare, and saw a few other people near him that had variations of third eyes in their foreheads. One had even a very small fourth eye. My first thought was not about the spiritual third eye but rather a birth defect. I then saw there was a movie screen towards the front of the plane that was showing a documentary about third eyes -- the explanation being that it was due to an identical, maybe conjoined, twin not being fully formed during gestation and it would be resorbed. But some times it didn't work completely. Similar to people being born with extra limbs coming out of their sternum. I then  understood that there was a group of third-eye people on the flight that were traveling to a third-eye conference of some sort.

Hi Deb,

Your dream speaks to me in a couple of different ways. Especially, your comment about the third eye being due to an identical, or maybe conjoined, twin not being fully formed during gestation.

I've recognized for some time now that All That Is, God, my Entity, my Supra self, or my inner self often communicates with me both internally (via a "still small voice") and externally (via life experiences which includes comments made by other people).  In this instance, I believe that God is teaching me something via Deb.

I was born with a twin sister but she was still born. I'm a male and so we were not identical twins and we weren't conjoined in any way.

My wife, and I seem to be very connected in many different ways and as a result, I sometimes think that maybe my twin sister changed her mind and decided to come back as a person who would be my wife instead.

I've always felt a deep spiritual connection with women, especially in regards to their various causes and rights and maybe the influence of my twin sister has something to do with this. 

I've never considered the possibility that my twin sister may have something to do with my spiritual connection. Thanks for sharing your dream. 

Now, in regards to your dream, especially the part about you being on a flight with people some who have a third eye and are travelling to a conference, he's the thoughts that have come to me.

This speaks to me of this Seth forum where many of us have a third eye (as a group, we are more open to psychic concepts than many others) and some have a fourth, (some people here are more advanced than others), and we are on a journey together (we are on a journey of life together) where we are going to a conference (a journey to a Seth conference, which may represent this internet forum which could be considered a global Seth conference).

[LenKop]

Nice dream Deb.

I'm sure there is some kind of greater vision symbolism (obviously), but also your inner self might be trying to make it really obvious that you're in a dream, giving you a great chance to go lucid and out of body.

Len

[Dandelion]

Lots of interesting symbolism in your dream and no doubt a lot of it is personal, but other people's interpretation might trigger some new understandings for you.  So here are some of my thoughts about it. 

You are pleased with your life journey (with its beautiful and interesting scenery), happy with the direction you are headed in (toward home), but are not tied down to it (chairs not bolted to the floor) or perhaps not totally committed to the path you're on.  You are still open to other possibilities.  One possibility involves your past (your childhood friend), but you decide not to explore it (not open any doors) and return to your current life.  However, it's less comfortable for you now (there is less room in the plane) and there is something spiritual (seeing the people with a third eye) that you're now aware of.  But rather than interpreting it as spiritual, your explanation is scientific (a birth defect).  This explanation can be confirmed by external things—the documentary and possibly the conference (depending on if it's a scientific conference or a metaphysical conference)—and an additional explanation is added to validate it (that it is the result of a twin being reabsorbed in an incomplete way).

So maybe you're trying to resolve some conflicts between your spiritual beliefs and your "scientific" (physical-world based) beliefs.  Or trying to decide how far you want to go with the metaphysical possibilities, since your current life is good.  Or trying to figure out how to apply you spiritual knowledge to your physical reality in a rational, practical way that makes sense to others, that they can accept as being valid.  It seems likely there are a lot of different things you may be working on that dream.

[Sena]

This speaks to me of this Seth forum where many of us have a third eye (as a group, we are more open to psychic concepts than many others) and some have a fourth, (some people here are more advanced than others), and we are on a journey together (we are on a journey of life together) where we are going to a conference (a journey to a Seth conference, which may represent this internet forum which could be considered a global Seth conference).

jbseth, that is an excellent interpretation.

[Sena]

So maybe you're trying to resolve some conflicts between your spiritual beliefs and your "scientific" (physical-world based) beliefs.  Or trying to decide how far you want to go with the metaphysical possibilities, since your current life is good.  Or trying to figure out how to apply you spiritual knowledge to your physical reality in a rational, practical way that makes sense to others, that they can accept as being valid.  It seems likely there are a lot of different things you may be working on that dream.

Dandelion, that is very interesting. Just shows that a dream usually has multiple meanings.

[Batfan007]

I was mulling over a conversation I had with someone who seems a little obsessed with the Zombie Apocalypse, and it finally occurred to me that the reason so many people are fascinated by it is that it's symbolic of some of our major fears, such as losing one's mind, physical death, and loss of our individuality.  This lead me to thoughts about how important symbolism is to us.  It's the basis of our physical reality.  We symbolize concepts so we can experience them in new ways and deepen our comprehension of them.  The better we understand the symbolism, both personal and collective symbolism, the better we understand life.

As Seth says (excerpts from the Appendix of Seth Speaks, Session 594):

"You think of thoughts, images, and dreams sometimes as being symbolic of other things, but the truth is that physical objects are themselves symbols.  They are the exterior symbols that stand for the inner experience.

There are, therefore, mass physical symbols upon which you all agree, as well as private, personal symbols.

The whole nature and structure of physical life as you know it, is a symbolic statement made by groups of entities who choose to work with physical symbolism.  So the body is a symbol of what you are, or what you think you are—and these may be two different things indeed.

Any physical ailment is symbolic of an inner reality or statement.  Your entire life is a statement in physical terms, written upon time as you understand it.

Once you understand the symbolic nature of physical reality, then you will no longer feel entrapped by it.  You have formed the symbols, and therefore you can change them.  You must learn, of course, what the various symbols mean in your own life, and how to translate their meaning."

Understanding symbolism (in things like dreams, fiction, and poetry) is something I've struggled with in the past, so most of the time I just ignored it.  But reading the Seth books has really helped me understand some of the symbolism in my life.  Of course, it's still a brand new area for me to explore, and I'm interested in other people's thoughts about symbolism and their experiences with it as it applies to their lives.

As a horror fan, and particularly a zombie fan I find the idea of an actual zombie apocalypse terribly amusing.
It's almost like abstract art that masquerades in terms of science.
The walking dead for example is more about human history and morality than any possible future - how humanity divides into tribes that kill and conquer one another to "survive", here tribes applies to everyone, not any specific group.

Early zombie films like Romero's had social meanings to them, while later ones were fun more for the creative kills of the zombies, similar thing to the post-modern Slasher genre.

you can also see Zombie films as representing Man without a Soul, or a Science dominated belief system that leaves no place for meaning in the universe.

Mostly zombie stuff is just for fun, and most of it does not have much in the way of deeper meaning etc.
I do find it terribly amusing that someones fears might have them conceive of an actual zombie apocalypse (the reader/viewer that is, not the author).

I personally find symbols in traditional "poems" , literature etc to be too broad and not really useful to me, I prefer to examine my own personal symbols in states of dreams and meditation, the kind of thing Carl Jung used to ramble on about in so many words, god bless em.

I may do a series of articles in the new year on the different levels of symbolism - eg personal interior, society exterior, individual symbols, mass symbols.

The changing of symbols too, which Seth does touch on. That's one area I've explored a fair bit in my own way, it really is the main thing I write about in my various blogs.

Going with the theme of "holons" which I've been getting into lately, at least one of the articles would deal with this particular framework, or system of reality, being symbol based and all, and use some specific examples of the micro and the macro.

From DNA to the stars and back if you will.

[Deb]

I've been too busy lately, but I wanted to say thanks to those that contributed interpretations to my third-eye dream. There were a lot of things I had not considered, and since I've been busy lately I have not been able to completely explore what was said, but all of it resonated with me in one way or another.

I understand no one can interpret our own dreams as accurately as we can (because we all have our own system of symbols), but there is no more valuable input than that from those who are impartial. Fresh eyes.

Thank you! We are an intuitive group.

[jbseth]

Hi All,

Oddly enough, this type of dream situation seems to occur to me fairly often.

The other night, I had a dream where my wife and I were at some sort of resort. In this dream, when we went to take a shower at this resort, there was only one room available to do so, for the people on our floor. This one room was a small room with a door lock and inside this room was a bath tub with a shower capability.

Now this shower capability was not you conventional shower head arrangement. Instead it consisted of a large stainless steel curved metal tube that went from the head of the tub to the foot of the tub. What you did was you got into the tub and then you pulled this metal tube over your head. After doing this, you turned the water on and the water sprayed down on you via various pinholes located along the length of the inside curve of this long curved metal tube.  This design was kind of like the reverse of a lawn sprinkler.


Today, while I was doing some shopping, in a local department store, I discovered that they had a section where they sell some of those items that you see on TV, such as the George Forman barbeque grills or the Ginsu knives. While I was looking at some of these items, I came across an item called the Woof Washer 360. To see what this woof washer 360 is, take a look at the link below.

http://www.woofwasher360.com/?gclid=CPHU84Tx-tACFU5wfgodjrQC3w&gclsrc=ds

Now, at this link take a look at the image of the woman in the upper left who appears to be giving either a yellow lab or a golden retriever a bath with one of these woof washers. The woof washer design in this image is very similar to the design of the stainless steel tube that was used for taking a shower in the bath tub, of my dream.

Would you say that this was just a coincidence?

Does anybody else have dream images like this pop up in real life?

[Sena]

A shower can obviously symbolize different things to different people. This is from
"UFO Initiation: Ultraterrestrial Time Travelers" by Ida Kannenberg:

"In Betty Andreasson's initiation she was told to shower in a contrivance, but it seemed to be light instead of water. What she perceived as light was in reality a shower of energy, a revitalization or renewal of her own vital energies."

[Deb]

Would you say that this was just a coincidence?

Any chance you've seen a commercial for the Woof Washer? If not, I wouldn't necessarily say coincidence, more like intuition. I can't recall ever having a dream that later was evidenced in some way in my awake state. But I have had thoughts while awake that became evidenced in real time, such as thinking about a person and they instantly call or text me.

[jbseth]

Any chance you've seen a commercial for the Woof Washer? If not, I wouldn't necessarily say coincidence, more like intuition. I can't recall ever having a dream that later was evidenced in some way in my awake state. But I have had thoughts while awake that became evidenced in real time, such as thinking about a person and they instantly call or text me.

Hi Deb,

Now, in this case, it is possible that I may have seen this commercial on TV. My wife watches TV much more than I do and she says that she's seen a commercial for this item on TV. Usually while she's watching TV, I'm in the same room but I'm on my laptop doing something like participating in this Seth forum on the internet.  I may have seen heard the commercial and it may have been stored somewhere in my subconscious.

However, I was very surprised yesterday when I saw this Woof Washer 360 at the store and because of this, I'm pretty sure that I haven't seen this commercial. I certainly didn't recognize this item when I saw it at the store.



The thing is, I do occasionally have something like this happen in a dream, not necessarily an odd object like this but sometimes its either an object, a conversation or an event that I experience. Then typically within a few days of having the dream, the object, conversation or experience shows up in this reality in one form or another.

I haven't yet been able to figure out how to recognize these things while still in the dream state, such that I can keep a conscious eye out for them in this reality. Maybe I should go back an take another look at the Seth book, "Seth, Dreams and Projections of Consciousness" as there probably are some hints about how to do this somewhere in that book.

I also do occasionally have the experience where I'm thinking about someone or something and then they call or otherwise appear in this reality shortly thereafter.

[Dandelion]

Here's an interesting quote about symbolism from Personal Sessions #4, Deleted Session date April 26, 1978, pg 214-215

Seth had been talking about the way Jane and Rob have arranged their home environment to reflect their beliefs (as we all do).

"You cannot exactly say that each object is a symbol of a belief that specifically, and yet any alteration that you willfully make in your behavior with the objects of your intimate environment represent alterations of beliefs.  There is a constant give-and-take between the two.  In mundane terms each piece of furniture is a symbol—you have conscious feelings about it.  When you change a room around you are altering beliefs in an observable way."

[gitam2]

I feel symbolism is a fascinating topic, among many that Seth has brought up. I appreciate the deep discussion about this topic in this blog.
Lately I've been quite interested in learning to live my life from the multidimensional perspective. Part of this is knowing that I have a non-physical self that "lives" in more of an emotional/psychological world. This non-physical self according to Seth (as I understand it) designed my physical self, and all physical things and events in the earthly world are symbolic representations of non-physical consciousness. I've been re-reading Mass Events, one of my favorite Seth books, in which he outlines the mechanics of experience. In Mass Events, Seth suggests that we suspend our normal habitual thinking of cause and effect and begin habituating ourselves to think that all physical things and events were FIRST non-physical thoughts or emotions. Seth states that if we as humans adopt this perspective we will understand our world more and the true nature of our existence more clearly. There are huge implications to this, also many exciting implications. Seth states that with our current cause and effect thinking and belief system, we can only see the EFFECTS of things (the physical symbols) and that we tend to look at only the skin or veneer of our existence. If we can embrace this multidimensional view, or spacious mind, as he has also called it, we can perceive a much deeper "psychological thickness" of our existence. Then, we can more easily understand the subjectivity of time and how the future affects the past, for example.
So far I'm finding this an interesting exercise, a little like learning to walk. Its not always easy and I welcome any experiences others may have about this.

[Batfan007]

I've been too busy lately, but I wanted to say thanks to those that contributed interpretations to my third-eye dream. There were a lot of things I had not considered, and since I've been busy lately I have not been able to completely explore what was said, but all of it resonated with me in one way or another.

I understand no one can interpret our own dreams as accurately as we can (because we all have our own system of symbols), but there is no more valuable input than that from those who are impartial. Fresh eyes.

Thank you! We are an intuitive group.

I was just reading Jung's book before I sat down where he has a particular realisation about dream interpretation and analysis (when he realised his friend Freud was ill suited to interpret him/Jung's dreams due to his personal beliefs and biases).

Jung recommended that an extrovert talk about dreams with an extrovert, and an introvert with an introvert, as othewise the one who listens will dominate the other person in their "analysis".

Anyhow, interesting idea, I don't know what to think of it.

[Deb]

"When you change a room around you are altering beliefs in an observable way."

Oh wow. I'm going to be paying attention to that now, the deeper meaning to why I'm rearranging or even replacing furnishings. Seth also said that when we move, like from one area to another, it's because our energy has changed.

Jung recommended that an extrovert talk about dreams with an extrovert, and an introvert with an introvert, as othewise the one who listens will dominate the other person in their "analysis".

It makes some sense to me in that introverts and extroverts would have different ideas and ways of approaching life, by having similar traits, speaker and listener would be more on par with each other's thinking.

If we can embrace this multidimensional view, or spacious mind, as he has also called it, we can perceive a much deeper "psychological thickness" of our existence. Then, we can more easily understand the subjectivity of time and how the future affects the past, for example.
So far I'm finding this an interesting exercise, a little like learning to walk. Its not always easy and I welcome any experiences others may have about this.

Fascinating topic, which could actually be a topic in itself, embracing the multidimensional view. Yep, I think we have had, for the most part, tunnel vision. Which has served its purpose, but it's time for some to broaden perspective.

Can I ask how you're working on this? Lately there's been talk of ETs or aliens on the forum and I'm just now getting the concept of how probable selves, incarnations, ghosts, thought forms, what we label as ETs, the past, the future, the present can all exist 'here' at once, just on different frequencies or spectrums or dimensions or whatever. I'm really trying to open my mind to the possibility of ANYTHING and break free from that idea drilled into me since early childhood: snap out of it and get real.

Here's a quote that just came from Ivan on Facebook this morning, it seems to fit a bit:

You cannot separate your beliefs about reality from the reality that you experience. That is, your beliefs about reality form it. Your ideas about what is possible and what is not possible are reflected in all areas. It is almost impossible to begin with concepts of one isolated universe, one self at the mercy of its past, one time sequence, and end up with any acceptable theory of a multidimensional soul or godhead that is anything else but a glorified personified concept of what you think man is.

The Unknown Reality, Vol. 1, Session 684.

That last line reminds me of the old saying, "man created god in his own image."

[Batfan007]

"When you change a room around you are altering beliefs in an observable way."

Oh wow. I'm going to be paying attention to that now, the deeper meaning to why I'm rearranging or even replacing furnishings. Seth also said that when we move, like from one area to another, it's because our energy has changed.

Jung recommended that an extrovert talk about dreams with an extrovert, and an introvert with an introvert, as othewise the one who listens will dominate the other person in their "analysis".

It makes some sense to me in that introverts and extroverts would have different ideas and ways of approaching life, by having similar traits, speaker and listener would be more on par with each other's thinking.

If we can embrace this multidimensional view, or spacious mind, as he has also called it, we can perceive a much deeper "psychological thickness" of our existence. Then, we can more easily understand the subjectivity of time and how the future affects the past, for example.
So far I'm finding this an interesting exercise, a little like learning to walk. Its not always easy and I welcome any experiences others may have about this.

Fascinating topic, which could actually be a topic in itself, embracing the multidimensional view. Yep, I think we have had, for the most part, tunnel vision. Which has served its purpose, but it's time for some to broaden perspective.

Can I ask how you're working on this? Lately there's been talk of ETs or aliens on the forum and I'm just now getting the concept of how probable selves, incarnations, ghosts, thought forms, what we label as ETs, the past, the future, the present can all exist 'here' at once, just on different frequencies or spectrums or dimensions or whatever. I'm really trying to open my mind to the possibility of ANYTHING and break free from that idea drilled into me since early childhood: snap out of it and get real.

Here's a quote that just came from Ivan on Facebook this morning, it seems to fit a bit:

You cannot separate your beliefs about reality from the reality that you experience. That is, your beliefs about reality form it. Your ideas about what is possible and what is not possible are reflected in all areas. It is almost impossible to begin with concepts of one isolated universe, one self at the mercy of its past, one time sequence, and end up with any acceptable theory of a multidimensional soul or godhead that is anything else but a glorified personified concept of what you think man is.

The Unknown Reality, Vol. 1, Session 684.

That last line reminds me of the old saying, "man created god in his own image."

"Yep, I think we have had, for the most part, tunnel vision. Which has served its purpose, but it's time for some to broaden perspective."

One one the hand I agree.
In another view for me it's not an either/or thing, but being in whatever state we need at a particular time (as in any 24 hourish day)

At say 0900 I may need a walk and to use up some energy. At night time  I may need to sleep (more than likely) both 'states' serve their purpose, and enrich the other 'states' by their contrast. Neither is more important than the other, and too much of anything (any one state) leads to being mentally unbalanced, but may be useful as a temporary learning aid eg going to "small" extremes, to learn the natural boundaries of our body and mental states.

[Batfan007]

I was mulling over a conversation I had with someone who seems a little obsessed with the Zombie Apocalypse, and it finally occurred to me that the reason so many people are fascinated by it is that it's symbolic of some of our major fears, such as losing one's mind, physical death, and loss of our individuality.  This lead me to thoughts about how important symbolism is to us.  It's the basis of our physical reality.  We symbolize concepts so we can experience them in new ways and deepen our comprehension of them.  The better we understand the symbolism, both personal and collective symbolism, the better we understand life.

As Seth says (excerpts from the Appendix of Seth Speaks, Session 594):

"You think of thoughts, images, and dreams sometimes as being symbolic of other things, but the truth is that physical objects are themselves symbols.  They are the exterior symbols that stand for the inner experience.

There are, therefore, mass physical symbols upon which you all agree, as well as private, personal symbols.

The whole nature and structure of physical life as you know it, is a symbolic statement made by groups of entities who choose to work with physical symbolism.  So the body is a symbol of what you are, or what you think you are—and these may be two different things indeed.

Any physical ailment is symbolic of an inner reality or statement.  Your entire life is a statement in physical terms, written upon time as you understand it.

Once you understand the symbolic nature of physical reality, then you will no longer feel entrapped by it.  You have formed the symbols, and therefore you can change them.  You must learn, of course, what the various symbols mean in your own life, and how to translate their meaning."

Understanding symbolism (in things like dreams, fiction, and poetry) is something I've struggled with in the past, so most of the time I just ignored it.  But reading the Seth books has really helped me understand some of the symbolism in my life.  Of course, it's still a brand new area for me to explore, and I'm interested in other people's thoughts about symbolism and their experiences with it as it applies to their lives.

The natural art of personal symbolism is somewhat lost in our modern world with the rise of the written world and literacy. We look at things with a logical, rather than intuitive mind, skipping past that, in pre-literate cultures, symbols were more directly perceived, that is a symbol in the exterior world more often would trigger useful information in our inner world, without any sort of "effort" , it's more natural and direct, like reading a street sign when you are driving.

This is not discounting the deeper symbolism of wisdom traditions and such, but much of those topics points to very scientific ideas, but in ancient terms.
The indwelling "atman" for example in Indian culture was not only an artisitc and cultural "symbol" of the god in you (that works both figuratively and literally), but also art would depict the familiar icon we use today for the atom.

In ancient cultures - Science and religion and art (as we think of them) were one, and usually constructed purposefully in terms of both literal symbols we can see with our eyes that induce particular states (direct perception) as well as the larger symbolism of say our physical world, camouflage reality, and inner world with all its historical symbols etc that are common to humanity such as archetypes.

[Dandelion]

I was just reading Jung's book before I sat down where he has a particular realisation about dream interpretation and analysis (when he realised his friend Freud was ill suited to interpret him/Jung's dreams due to his personal beliefs and biases).

Jung recommended that an extrovert talk about dreams with an extrovert, and an introvert with an introvert, as othewise the one who listens will dominate the other person in their "analysis".

Anyhow, interesting idea, I don't know what to think of it.

That is interesting.  It's an important realization--becoming aware of the effect differences in perception have when discussing or analyzing something.  But I think I would take that one step further.  If someone wants to be understood, it helps if the other person has a similar perspective.  But if one wants to really expand one's understanding, it might be more helpful to discuss it with someone who has a different perspective.  For example, Jung may not have had that realization without his friendship with Freud.

[Batfan007]

I was just reading Jung's book before I sat down where he has a particular realisation about dream interpretation and analysis (when he realised his friend Freud was ill suited to interpret him/Jung's dreams due to his personal beliefs and biases).

Jung recommended that an extrovert talk about dreams with an extrovert, and an introvert with an introvert, as othewise the one who listens will dominate the other person in their "analysis".

Anyhow, interesting idea, I don't know what to think of it.

That is interesting.  It's an important realization--becoming aware of the effect differences in perception have when discussing or analyzing something.  But I think I would take that one step further.  If someone wants to be understood, it helps if the other person has a similar perspective.  But if one wants to really expand one's understanding, it might be more helpful to discuss it with someone who has a different perspective.  For example, Jung may not have had that realization without his friendship with Freud.

It's just the beginning of the book, not his final word on the topic, but more of an introductory essay about the often unconscious prejudices of therapists / analysts etc and the possible effect on the interaction. He goes on to talk a candidly about a dream he shared with Freud, and makes the point as Seth does that their is no standard of dream symbolism, that every encounter must be new and open to discussion, that every person's dreams are unique, and the good therapist etc must use their own personality and wisdom etc (here I would refer to inner sense in Seth terms) to bridge the gap between two personalities in conversation, and not rely on any formal stock standard of dream symbols and interpretation, but he does make a note that we have general things that come up in dreams falling, flying etc, he is not saying throw the baby out with the bathwater etc but to be open to possibilities.

[Deb]

If someone wants to be understood, it helps if the other person has a similar perspective.  But if one wants to really expand one's understanding, it might be more helpful to discuss it with someone who has a different perspective.  For example, Jung may not have had that realization without his friendship with Freud.

A VERY good point!

I was leafing through an old art-related book the other day and came across these pencil exercises done by art students. The exercise was to communicate feeling in art using shapes as well as line pressure. Four different students made these. The feelings are anger, joy, peacefulness, depression, energy, femininity, illness, and the last one was free choice: 01 love on top, hysteria below; 02 confusion on top, fear below.

Not completely related to this topic, but I thought it was a good exercise to get in touch with our own feelings and our internal symbols for those feelings: something I haven't considered before. An exercise to get to know ourselves a little better, which could be expanded to include objects and not just lines. If someone was really serious about interpreting their dreams (and I sure had some weird ones last night), it could be beneficial to keep a sort of symbol key in the dream journal, examining objects or events in dreams and attitudes towards them during the day. I've had some recurring symbols in my dreams that I should probably examine.

What I also found interesting in the drawings is that while some people had similar symbols for some feelings (femininity or peacefulness, for example), there are some mixed, such as one person's depression looks like another person's anger. Another reason I suppose it would be hard to interpret another's dreams objectively.

If you click on an image, it will enlarge. I pumped up the contrast a bit to make these easier to see.

[gitam2]

If we can embrace this multidimensional view, or spacious mind, as he has also called it, we can perceive a much deeper "psychological thickness" of our existence. Then, we can more easily understand the subjectivity of time and how the future affects the past, for example.
So far I'm finding this an interesting exercise, a little like learning to walk. Its not always easy and I welcome any experiences others may have about this.

Fascinating topic, which could actually be a topic in itself, embracing the multidimensional view. Yep, I think we have had, for the most part, tunnel vision. Which has served its purpose, but it's time for some to broaden perspective.

Can I ask how you're working on this? Lately there's been talk of ETs or aliens on the forum and I'm just now getting the concept of how probable selves, incarnations, ghosts, thought forms, what we label as ETs, the past, the future, the present can all exist 'here' at once, just on different frequencies or spectrums or dimensions or whatever. I'm really trying to open my mind to the possibility of ANYTHING and break free from that idea drilled into me since early childhood: snap out of it and get real.

(I hope I copied the quote correctly, first time) I'm considering setting up a topic. How am I working on living a multidimensional life? Throughout the day I'm remembering as much as possible to look at things and events in a larger context. Anything I see, I may ask, " who thought this into existence? What is the larger process of its history?". Also I believe that living multidimensionally FEELS good or better than normal linear thinking life. I feel more in touch with my cells, with the consciousness in all things. Also, I'm becoming more aware of associative relationships between things and events rather than just linear cause and effect relationships.
In terms of your references to ETs, ghosts, probable selves, and everything existing all at once (wow, that's a lot!), yeah, I believe that our normal existence is a highly specialized and focused spectrum of energy that we are comfortable living in and that time and space are "root assumptions" as Seth calls them. So I'm doing mental exercises in playing with the plasticity of time, pretty easy to do. And sure, there can be all kinds of "aliens" or whatever all around us, some knowing what we are doing some not. I just trust the process and want to have a a good time doing it  .
I'm aware that this is a bit off topic of the symbol topic of this discussion, so I'll keep this brief for now and consider setting up a topic on my experiences on living multidimensionally.

[Deb]

(I hope I copied the quote correctly, first time)

A quote within a quote (identifying what you said and what I said) is just a little little tricky. If you want I can fix that for you, or if you want to learn how to do it just contact me privately (PM or via Private Dialogues) and I can explain.

I'm considering setting up a topic. How am I working on living a multidimensional life?

I think that's an excellent idea, go for it!

I believe that our normal existence is a highly specialized and focused spectrum of energy that we are comfortable living in and that time and space are "root assumptions" as Seth calls them. So I'm doing mental exercises in playing with the plasticity of time, pretty easy to do.

During my ghost hunting days, I started to think about energy spectrums: what we can see, what we can hear, and how so limited our senses are in the big picture of the entire EM spectrum. All those years I'd been told 'these are the colors in a rainbow' and 'these are the frequencies on the radio' and I'd just gone along with it without questioning. But at some point it occurred to me (big duh) that these concepts were being oversimplified only for the ease of explaining the concepts to the masses. There are an infinite number of variations in frequency between what I'd been told and what actually can exist.

I could go on... but I'll save my thoughts for your new topic (if you choose to make one). And I can even move your post and this one into the new topic for continuity's sake.

[Batfan007]

But I have had thoughts while awake that became evidenced in real time, such as thinking about a person and they instantly call or text me.

I feel like in these instances that my nervous system is picking up an electro-magnetic signal directly from that other person before the call etc (sometimes I feel it as a sensation in my body) and then the thought comes after the fact.

Set talks about this "communication" but I have no idea where or when, or what words he used.
I used words familiar to me, I may be way off on nervous system, except that the feeling in my body (a sensation, not an emotion) is not unlike say there was a direct threat in front of you, like say a fireball from a gas camping cooker that suddenly ignites - that your body perceives as a threat, and makes you move rapidly backwards before you see the fireball with your eyes, or have any "time" to process what is happening in any way.
I've had that experience several times with natural gas (when it ignites unexpectedly)

*
I describe any of it as non-local data that my body perceives before it reaches my mind in any way. Like how  a radio picks up a broadcast signal from an antenna, then translates the signal into something meaningful.

[Deb]

Zombies - I heard a horror movie creator of zombies once say that the zombies were a symbolized creation of the people in life that are mechanical and asleep. Totally unaware of other aspects to life. For me they are akin to the people in the matrix that are with the lady in the red dress.

One and same, is that what you mean? Don Miguel Ruiz has an analogy of awakened/enlightened people, where he describes the scene of a party in which everyone is in some stage of being drunk and very involved in their own dramas. Imagine you are one of the few that are not drunk at all, totally alert and aware. And yet the rest of the partiers assume that everyone is as inebriated as they are. He really explains it well, I need to update my topic on him with some quotes.

I have to admit I'm totally into the Walking Dead, but then as a kid I'd fantasized about being a survivor of some sort of apocalypse and what I would do to survive and find the ideal locale to live. Hint: it involved riding horses to a Florida destination and spending my nights in furniture stores. My attraction to the show is the back-to-basics survival and overcoming a plethora of adversities. Living in-the-moment survival opposed to what society deems is the good life (nice house, ideal family, acceptable job, nice car...). Plus I got totally sucked into the character development and relationships.

I also find it interesting that zombies have evolved from the Vodoo puppets they started out as (the mechanical, asleep and easily controlled shells of their former selves), to the virus infected, flesh eating, infecting menaces they are currently portrayed as. Zombie 1.0 was docile, a mindless servant; Zombie 6.0 is out of control and a threat to life as we know it. Your thoughts?

Cthulhu - What a great way to bend the spell of its mythos!

I LOVED the video, not only for it's creativity and cleverness. I discovered Lovecraft when I was 15, don't know how or why. There were no easily accessible book stores when I was a kid. I distinctly remember spending an entire cold and rainy day in an armchair reading my first Lovecraft book. Needless to say (by my attached photo), I was hooked. By the absolute mind-blowing creativity of the author, presenting an imagination and fantasy reality that I'd not been exposed to before. I have carried these books with me from state to state, over decades. There is only one other book I can say that about: Grok: A Stranger in a Strange Land. But have to admit I'd never considered the symbolism in the Lovecraft books, I only read them in their literal sense. I'm glad I've hung onto them, I will read them again some day with a new perspective.

Some day ask me about psyche muck, and I'll tell you the tale of Big Black.

[Batfan007]

Zombies - I heard a horror movie creator of zombies once say that the zombies were a symbolized creation of the people in life that are mechanical and asleep. Totally unaware of other aspects to life. For me they are akin to the people in the matrix that are with the lady in the red dress.

One and same, is that what you mean? Don Miguel Ruiz has an analogy of awakened/enlightened people, where he describes the scene of a party in which everyone is in some stage of being drunk and very involved in their own dramas. Imagine you are one of the few that are not drunk at all, totally alert and aware. And yet the rest of the partiers assume that everyone is as inebriated as they are. He really explains it well, I need to update my topic on him with some quotes.

I have to admit I'm totally into the Walking Dead, but then as a kid I'd fantasized about being a survivor of some sort of apocalypse and what I would do to survive and find the ideal locale to live. Hint: it involved riding horses to a Florida destination and spending my nights in furniture stores. My attraction to the show is the back-to-basics survival and overcoming a plethora of adversities. Living in-the-moment survival opposed to what society deems is the good life (nice house, ideal family, acceptable job, nice car...). Plus I got totally sucked into the character development and relationships.

I also find it interesting that zombies have evolved from the Vodoo puppets they started out as (the mechanical, asleep and easily controlled shells of their former selves), to the virus infected, flesh eating, infecting menaces they are currently portrayed as. Zombie 1.0 was docile, a mindless servant; Zombie 6.0 is out of control and a threat to life as we know it. Your thoughts?

Cthulhu - What a great way to bend the spell of its mythos!

I LOVED the video, not only for it's creativity and cleverness. I discovered Lovecraft when I was 15, don't know how or why. There were no easily accessible book stores when I was a kid. I distinctly remember spending an entire cold and rainy day in an armchair reading my first Lovecraft book. Needless to say (by my attached photo), I was hooked. By the absolute mind-blowing creativity of the author, presenting an imagination and fantasy reality that I'd not been exposed to before. I have carried these books with me from state to state, over decades. There is only one other book I can say that about: Grok: A Stranger in a Strange Land. But have to admit I'd never considered the symbolism in the Lovecraft books, I only read them in their literal sense. I'm glad I've hung onto them, I will read them again some day with a new perspective.

Some day ask me about psyche muck, and I'll tell you the tale of Big Black.

The diff with Walking Dead over other zombie media is that it's about clans /groups of human fighting each other for survival, and the choices they are forced to make and then have to live with.

It's specifically NOT about the zombies (that's from the author/creator of walking dead).

Robert Kirkman who created the comic and is a producer/writer on the show wanted to START a story at the point where other zombie fiction (movies etc) ends, and ask THEN what happens.

What happens AFTER the apocalypse, how do people live, what do we do etc?


You can see how over the seasons the things that happen mirror our own past, as a theme rather than specifics. The past of humans fighting each other for land and resources etc.

[Deb]

We do not do certain works/exercises because we have been infected with this 'mechanical virus' or this 'what will happen if' virus, or 'what about Johhny and Sue' virus.

Interesting twist to use virus here! I suppose 'virus' is a good enough symbol for accepting or deferring to another's or society's beliefs, physical reality. But while virus implies we are a victim (without conscious choice), acceptance of the Dream (or Domestication to borrow a term from Ruiz) is a choice whether we are conscious we are doing that or not. But infected... yeah, it fits.

In Anita Moorjani's accounting of her NDE, she had a choice whether to stay in her ascended state or return to this existence. She mostly chose to return because she 'knew' that her husband would not be able to accomplish his life's purpose/goals if she did not return. She compromised her own desires in order to support her husband, although I think she also knew she still had work to do. Yet, wait a minute, that still sounds just like what she was speaking out against: putting others' needs before her own. Hmmmm. I need to examine about that a bit more.

I remember when one particular zombie movie came out the most controversial topic was really the black man and the white woman.

Hah, I forgot about that element. All the horror, death and dying going on, and race was the big controversy. Lol. And again, if I recall, more about the behavior of the non-infected and how badly they were dealing with their situation, with less focus on the zombies.

It seems to me most entertainment is based in good vs. evil in some way and our need for good to overcome evil, whether it's zombies, vampires, bad guys, the enemy, corporations ( Erin Brokovich ), disease (ugh, remember Love Story? Love means never having to say you're sorry... WTF?).

Words and letters as symbols: I find your breakdown of words/letters/numbers interesting. What strikes me though, only because I'm currently learning a language based on the Cyrillic alphabet, is that your symbolic interpretations are (naturally) all based on the Roman alphabet. Of course there are languages with different lettering (46 actually!); I wonder how much crossover there would be. Not asking for an answer, just pondering the possibilities.

"We communicate telepathically, but then again, telepathy is the basis for your languages, without which their symbolism would be meaningless."
SS session 513

I enjoyed reading through some of these search results on Seth quotes about language. This search engine could help you find the quote you were looking for...

http://search.sethtalks.com/q/language/

Update: I just watched this video from an email from Anita. She talks about the differences between our current reality and the next realm that she visited (gender, religion, beliefs), and that she felt she had awoken from a Dream (our 'here') when she was there. I found the timing interesting timing considering my first two paragraphs above.

[Deb]

*props feet up, gets popcorn, and stuff, and says*

Only if you aren't re-living it harmfully, when you tell the tale. @_@

Well, not terribly exciting and no re-living harmfully.
In my past, as a paranormal investigator, I made a few visits to Waverly Hills Sanitorium in Kentucky. On one of my visits, I was 'adopted' for the last night by psychic Chip Coffey and Tiffiany-Johnson-somebody. Chip had promised to show me a ghost. Maybe an hour into our all-night experience, Chip and Tiff decided it was time to leave. They headed home and left me on my own. What I was supposed to do was find another 'group' to join for the night. But considering it was my last chance to have an experience, I decided to go it on my own. I spent the entire night lurking in the shadows, avoiding contact with others. Scared the tar out of Chris Fleming a couple of times. What a mouth on him, lol! And, what a wimp, considering his being a celebrity ghost hunter.

Anyway, around 4 am I had just come up a stairwell and onto the 4th floor, most known for paranormal activity. I took a moment to look over my left shoulder and in my periphery on my right saw a large black mass in my path. Moving at a good clip, I suddenly hit my 'brakes' and did a real backstroke. There were occasionally chairs in the halls of WH for people who needed to take a break, and I didn't want to trip over one (my first thought). One blink later and there was nothing in front of me. I SWORE I had just avoided tripping over a large black mass. An hour or two later I was recounting my experience to the owners of WH and was told there was an energy mass called Big Black that was frequently seen exactly where I'd experienced it. Supposedly, a mass of negative energy (Waverly Hills was a sanatorium for tuberculosis patients, lots of fear, suffering, negative energy involved) had gathered into a mass that would be visible on occasion. My idea of psyche muck.

IDK, I am (much to my own chagrin) somewhat energy insensitive. But when I'm not looking... sometimes things slap me upside the back of my head, lol. In the few years that I was a paranormal investigator, I have to say I had a lot of experiences that can't be explained within the norms of the official line of consciousness. I don't know what I saw, I just know I saw something and I wasn't the first.

[Sena]

Isis has been turned into a male symbol in the patriarchal form as Jesus.

Jesus is the Imagination and that is the domain of Isis.

Thanks for this insight. Neville Goddard obviously had not been much exposed to feminism.

"The Latin Bible transliterated the Greek name of Jesus by bringing across all of the Greek sounds in his name. His name was written as "IESUS." "

http://www.jesus8880.com/gematria/topic_essays/yehoshua.htm

[Sena]

The whore of Babylon is the Sacred Feminine , The Imagination

Another controversial interpretation, which I can agree with.

The Catholic Church will be relieved to know that it is NOT the whore of Babylon, but they can't put the label on "apostate Jerusalem".

https://www.catholic.com/tract/the-whore-of-babylon

Aleister Crowley wrote:

"Beautiful art thou, O Babylon, and desirable, for thou hast given thyself to everything that liveth, and thy weakness hath subdued their strength."

http://www.metaphysicalityinc.com/2016/02/the-virgin-and-the-whore.html

A 408 page dissertation here!!:

https://epub.uni-regensburg.de/33759/1/hladiss.pdf