Collective conscioisness?

[WindWalker]

I was reading a facebook post about the "collective consciousness" and was surprised that Seth never used the term before. Where does Seth describe how the entire worlds consciousness affects world events? The fb post revolved around climate change. One guy claimed that climate change was actually CAUSED by people who "think about" climate change even though their thinking is along the lines of climate change being caused by co2 being pumped in the atmosphere. The convo can get deep quick given Seth never discussed climate change and also human caused climate change seemed to exist before we knew what it was, ie it took awhile for co2 to build up into the atmosphere before anybody realized the effect co2 had on the earths climate. Anyway, so another guy mentioned the "collective consciousness" of the world in this discussion and another guy pointed out Seth never used that term which surprised me because I am sure that Seth state how the worlds collective consciousness affected the world. What terms did he use? Thanks! Ps. Also-what/who do y'all believe is causing climate change.

[Sena]

One guy claimed that climate change was actually CAUSED by people who "think about" climate change even though their thinking

WindWalker, thanks for this interesting topic. My understanding of Seth is that each person, by his thoughts and actions, creates a reality that is "significant" for himself. Take for instance someone living in the Maldives. 100% of Maldivian citizens are Muslims. They would not read Seth because they would regard his writings as blasphemous. They would regard All That Is as a perversion of Allah. People living in the Maldives may create a reality in which all their islands are covered over by the rising ocean.

[chasman]

hi Windwalker and Sena.
I just searched on the finding seth search engine.
and found this:

https://findingseth.com/q/'collective+unconscious'/

[Sena]

chasman, thanks for your post. I feel I need to clarify what I wrote previously. When I wrote about what might happen in the Maldives, I should have emphasized that the people there would not consciously want their islands to be submerged by the ocean. But it could be a result of their subconscious beliefs. Barrie Gellis in his Q and A book explains clearly the role of the subconscious.

[Deb]

I was reading a facebook post about the "collective consciousness" and was surprised that Seth never used the term before.

I didn't realize that! I think that Seth's mass events and mass consciousness cover that same concept but without using the actual term "collective consciousness." Maybe that's a term that was coined in later years?  https://findingseth.com/q/'mass+consciousness'/

Chasman found a great term, collective unconsciousness! I'm going to take a look at the search results for both of those terms to see how they compare.

[chasman]

very good, thank you Sena.

awesome idea Deb. I will too!
here's the wiki for Collective unconscious:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_unconscious

[WindWalker]

Thanks! Well then. How does Seth term "collective consciousness?" Like how all our consciousnesses put together.....all 7 billion of them affect world events? Or like even ten people putting their heads together working towards the same goal whether in business or sports or politics etc? Thats astonishing Seth never used a term that would denote this.

[chasman]

I wonder if the answers to your questions are in
The Individual and the Nature of Mass Events?


https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007YCCDXE/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1

[Sena]

How does Seth term "collective consciousness?" Like how all our consciousnesses put together.

Collective consciousness in Sethian terms depends completely on universal telepathy. This means that my every thought is potentially available to every human being. This phenomenon, however, is rarely evident in everyday life. This is because we have made a subconscious collective agreement that we will respect the privacy of each individual's thoughts.

As Barrie Gellis writes in his book Seth Q and A:

"Thoughts too are made of electromagnetic stuff and are manifested in these invisible realms, as are emotions and all nonphysical events.
  Our astral bodies, inner selves, so-called dead personalities and selves, spirits, and so on, are all given form and live in this electromagnetic universe of consciousness." (from "Seth Material Q&A: The Spiritual Inner Journey of Self Awareness: Original Seth Class Member Answers Your Questions" by Barrie Gellis)

From the Kindle edition: http://amzn.eu/84Vp7Xz

[Deb]

I agree with Charlie, you need to read The Individual and the Nature of Mass Events. In The Nature of Personal Reality Seth focuses more on how we create our reality as individuals, and in Mass Events he explains more how we do it as a mass consciousness. Even if Seth doesn't use the exact words "collective consciousness", the book is all about that: how we work together with other people to create the greater reality and events, "good or bad", such as wars, weather disasters, earthquakes, plane crashes. Seth is clear that there are no victims of any of those events. If we are involved in the event, it was because we agreed to be involved. There is a purpose for the events, nothing is random. And yes, it all relies on universal telepathy and the "agreements" are made on another level of consciousness.

[WindWalker]

Thanks. I am aware of that audio book youtube site Deb but I never post it publicly online because I fear it may be disassembled and eliminated if the wrong people discover it because of copy write laws. Shhhhhh. Understand?

[Deb]

I understand. The audio books have come up several times here, but they are also hiding in plain sight on YouTube lol. Anyone searching the internet will find them. The only person who would object is Laurel, and she does not come on this forum. But... I will edit my post to remove that link since you're already aware of that channel, as well as everyone else here.

[WindWalker]

Thanks!

[jbseth]

Hi Windwalker,

I suspect that Seth doesn't use the term "Collective Consciousness" because this term implies that it is with our outer consciousness that we create our world; and what Seth has to say about this topic is very different than that.

Below are some quotes from the Seth Book, "The Nature of Mass Events". In this book Seth talks about what he calls Framework 1 and Framework 2. These are defined below. He also talks about our outer ego and our inner ego. While our outer ego, is equipped to deal with the outer world, Framework 1, it is actually our inner egos that create our reality which takes place in Framework 2.


NOME, Chapter 2, Session 815:

[...]

We will call the world as you physically experience it, Framework 1.

[...]

As you do not know what happens in the television studio before you observe a program, however, so you do not know what happens in the creative framework of reality before you experience physical events. We will call that vast "unconscious" mental and universal studio Framework 2.



NOME, Chapter 3, Session 822:

[...]

As you have an ego, fully conscious, directed toward the physical world, you also have what I call an inner ego, directed toward inner reality. You have, in other words, a portion of yourself that is fully conscious in Framework 2. The ego in your ordinary world, which again we will call Framework 1, is uniquely equipped to deal with that environment. It manipulates with rules of cause and effect and consecutive moments. It deals with an objectified reality. It can stretch its capacities, becoming far more aware of inner events than it is normally allowed to do, but its main purpose is to deal with the world of effects, to encounter events.

The inner ego is fully conscious. It is a portion of you, however, that deals with the formation of events, that glories in a rather rambunctious and creative activity that your specifications of time and place physically preclude.

[...]

The inner ego is a portion of the self, for example — is the portion of your self — that is aware of your reincarnational activities. It is the part of you that exists outside of time, yet simultaneously lives in time. You form your own reality. The ego that you are aware of obviously could not form your body for you, however, or grow your bones. It knows how to assess the conditions of the world. It makes deductions. Your reasoning is highly important, yet alone it cannot pump your blood or tell your eyes how to see.

The inner ego does the actual work that brings about the events you have decided upon. In very simple terms, if you want to pick up a book, and then do so, you experience that event consciously, though you are quite unaware of all of the inner events that occurred to bring the motion about. The inner ego directs those activities.

If you want to change your job, and hold that desire, a new job will come into your experience in precisely the same fashion, in that the inner events will be arranged by the inner ego. A body event involves the working of numerous muscles and joints and so forth. An event involving a job change concerns motion on the part of many people, and implies a network of communication on the part of all of the inner egos involved. Obviously, then, a mass physical event implies an inner system of communications of proportions that would put your technological communications to shame.

-jbseth

[WindWalker]

Thanks!

[WindWalker]

 Thanks jbseth. When Seth states "Obviously, then, a mass physical event implies an inner system of communications of proportions that would put your technological communications to shame." What about negative mass physical events that occur like war etc? We chose to experience this physical reality. War exists in this physical reality. Does this mean we all had a hand in creating war from framework 2? If not then why does war continue to exist if we had no hand in creating it? Thanks!

[LarryH]

We chose to experience this physical reality. War exists in this physical reality. Does this mean we all had a hand in creating war from framework 2? If not then why does war continue to exist if we had no hand in creating it? Thanks!

Windwalker, the state of mass consciousness seems to be that while most people do not want war, most also believe that it is sometimes necessary. That belief and associated beliefs such as "might makes right", nationalism, racism, religious zealotry, and corporatism allow wars to continue to occur. Those of us who have chosen to enter probable realities in which war exists have chosen it for their soul development, including their level of involvement or non-involvement in wars. There are certainly tough lessons to be learned from war, and the species seems to consist of slow learners. But a world that seems constantly at war needs those who advocate alternatives. That in itself may be why we chose to be here. We do not create the perfect world from our human perspective, but we do create the perfect world for our soul development, with all its seeming imperfections and challenges.

[WindWalker]

 Hello again!
Sena states "we have made a subconscious collective agreement that we will respect the privacy of each individual's thoughts." Does anybody know where Seth states this? Thanks!

[Sena]

Hello again!
Sena states "we have made a subconscious collective agreement that we will respect the privacy of each individual's thoughts." Does anybody know where Seth states this? Thanks!

WindWalker, I don't have an exact Seth quote for what I wrote, but these statements are suggestive:

"Now in this reality people chose — and I am speaking in very simple terms — people chose to develop in a very different way. Therefore, that world-probability in which telepathy and clairvoyance would have been common, well-known facts of life, self-evident in any civilization — that probability became latent while the species followed another route."
—The Unkown Reality Vol.2 Appendix 23: (For Session 724)

"Now: you must understand, for one thing, that telepathy operates constantly at a subconscious level. If you continually expect any individual to behave in a particular manner, then you are constantly sending him telepathic suggestions that he will do so."
—The Early Sessions Vol.8 Session 340 May 10, 1967

The following Seth quote appears to contradict what I wrote in my previous post:

"Because we use telepathy we can hide little from each other, even if we wished to. This, I am sure, seems an invasion of privacy to you, and yet I assure you that even now none of your thoughts are hidden, but are known quite clearly to your family and friends — and I may add, unfortunately, to those you consider enemies as well. You are simply not aware of this fact."
—Seth Speaks Chapter 3: Session 518, March 18, 1970

[WindWalker]

Thanks so much Sena!

[jbseth]

Hi Windwalker,

In this set of posts, your initial question about the collective consciousness, has inspired me to go back and re-read the Seth book, "The Individual and the Nature of Mass Events". Thank you for that, I have really been enjoying this experience.  The last time that I completely read this book was in the 1980's. While I have re-read several sections of it, many times since then, this is the first time that I've embarked on completely re-reading the entire book. At this point, I'm only up to Chapter 4.

Regarding your question about negative mass physical events such as wars, I'd like to be able to tell you that the answer to your question is in Session XXX. However, that doesn't seem to be the case for this book. The answer to the question of how the individual relates to mass events seems to be scattered across many sections of this book, having to do with many different concepts.

These concepts include an understanding of the outer ego and the inner ego, Framework 1 and Framework 2 and the various "myths" that we consciously accept and believe to be true.

Seth discusses some of these "myths" in Chapter 3.  One of these myths, is the belief that some people have that some disasters occur because God was seeking His vengeance on Mankind as a result of the sins that mankind has allowed to occur in the world. Another such myth is the belief that when a disaster occurs, such as a tornado or tsunami, that nature is impersonal and such events only occur do to the complete randomness of natural events. Another major myth that Seth discusses is the myth that all perception must come from the outer physical senses alone. Many people believe in some or several of these myths and as a result of this, this tends to blind us to the true nature of how our inner and outer reality actually works.

In regards to wars and beliefs, Seth says the following in Chapter 6, Session 835. Given your question about negative mass physical events like wars, I think that you may find this quite interesting. Here Seth seems to connect the negative mass physical events of war, with individual personal beliefs:

We often have in your society the opposite suggestion, however, given quite regularly: "Every day, in every way, I am growing worse, and so is the world." You have meditations for disaster, beliefs that invite private and mass tragedies. They are usually masked by the polite clothing of conventional acceptance. (Pause.) Many thousands may die in a particular battle or war, for example. The deaths are accepted almost as a matter of course. These are victims of war, without question. It seldom occurs to anyone that these are victims of beliefs (emphatically) — since the guns are quite real, and the bombs and the combat.

The enemy is obvious. His intentions are evil. Wars are basically examples of mass suicide — embarked upon, however, with all of the battle's paraphernalia, carried out through mass suggestion, and through the nation's greatest resources, by men who are convinced that the universe is unsafe, that the self cannot be trusted, and that strangers are always hostile. You take it for granted that the species is aggressively combative. You must out-think the enemy nation before you yourself are destroyed. These paranoiac tendencies are largely hidden beneath man's nationalistic banners.

"The end justifies the means." This is another belief, most damaging. Religious wars always have paranoiac tendencies, for the fanatic always fears conflicting beliefs, and systems that embrace them.

-jbseth

[Sena]

One of these myths, is the belief that some people have that some disasters occur because God was seeking His vengeance on Mankind as a result of the sins that mankind has allowed to occur in the world.

jbseth, thanks for your post. The root belief underlying the above belief is that God is up there looking down on the world. In contrast, All That Is is as much "down here" as "up there". It would be illogical and impossible for All That Is to wreak vengeance on Itself.

[jbseth]

Hi All,

I found the following Seth quote in "The Individual and the Nature of Mass Events". This quote, which comes from Chapter 4, Session 826, discusses how each object has its own intent. Then, in this quote, Seth talks about how the intents of both man and nature might in some cases merge.

I suspect that man's various intents also plays a part in how individual humans choose to either merge or not merge with other humans intents, regarding other mass events like epidemics and wars.

Here's the Seth quote from NOME, Chapter 4, Session 826:

[...] I know it is difficult to comprehend, but every object that you perceive — grass or rock or stone — even ocean waves or clouds — any physical phenomenon — has its own invisible consciousness, its own intent and emotional coloration. Each is also endowed with patterns toward growth and fulfillment — not at the expense of the rest of nature, but to the contrary, so that every other element of nature may also be completed (all with much emphasis).

At certain levels these intents of man and nature may merge. I am speaking in very simple terms now, and yet those involved in a flood, for example, want the past washed away, or want to be flooded by bursts of vital emotions such as disasters often bring. They want to feel a renewed sense of nature's power, and often, though devastated, they use the experience to start a new life.

Those with other intents will find excuses to leave such areas. There will be, perhaps, a chance meeting that will result in a hasty trip. On a hunch someone else might suddenly leave the area to find a new job, or decide to visit a friend in another state. Those whose experiences do not merge with nature's in that regard will not be part of that mass event. They will act on information that comes to them from Framework 2. Those who stay also act on the same information, by choosing to participate.

-jbseth

[Deb]

every object that you perceive — grass or rock or stone — even ocean waves or clouds — any physical phenomenon — has its own invisible consciousness, its own intent and emotional coloration

Great quote, I find it very encouraging to think the intents of man and nature can merge (but also in more positive ways than a flood). The bit about everything having consciousness changed the way I see our world. It's something I consider when I'm going to cut branches off a tree, rip out weeds, move rocks, eat a steak... hopefully there's consent there. No victims, right?

[jbseth]

Hi Sena, Hi All,
In reply 21 above, you said: jbseth, thanks for your post. The root belief underlying the above belief is that God is up there looking down on the world. In contrast, All That Is is as much "down here" as "up there". It would be illogical and impossible for All That Is to wreak vengeance on Itself.

First of all, I agree that it would seem to be illogical for All That Is to wreak vengeance on itself, however, I'm not so sure that it would be impossible.

In regards to what Seth was saying, in reference to my paraphrased comment from Seth in my reply 20 above, Seth doesn't appear to be making any references to a belief in "All That Is". Instead, he seems to be talking about the "myths" that some people choose to consciously believe. Below are the direct quotes from Seth that I was referring to in reply 20 above. This comes from "The Individual and the Nature of Mass Events" chapter 3 Session 817.

[... 19 paragraphs ...]

If someone is caught in a natural disaster, the following questions might be asked: "Am I being punished by God, and for what reason? Is the disaster the result of God's vengeance?" A scientist might ask instead: "With better technology and information, could we somehow have predicted the disaster, and saved many lives?" He might try to dissociate himself from emotion, and to see the disaster simply as the result of a nonpersonal nature that did not know or care what lay in its path.

In all cases, however, such situations instantly bring to mind questions of man's own reality and source, his connections with God, his planet, and the universe. He interprets those questions according to his own beliefs. Let us then look at some of them.

[... 5 paragraphs ...]

In this part (2) of the book, we are more or less dealing with the events of nature as you understand it. It will seem obvious to some, again, that a natural disaster is caused by God's vengeance, or is at least a divine reminder to repent, while others will take it for granted that such a catastrophe is completely neutral in character, impersonal and [quite] divorced from man's own emotional reality. The Christian scientist is caught in between. Because you divorce yourselves from nature, you are not able to understand its manifestations. Often your myths get in the way. When myths become standardized, and too literal, when you begin to tie them too tightly to the world of facts, then you misread them entirely. When myths become most factual they are already becoming less real. Their power becomes constrained.

[... 15 paragraphs ...]

-jbseth

[jbseth]

Hi All,

In this topic, WindWalker has asked some very good questions about both collective consciousness and the mass event involving war.  As a result of this, I decided to go back and re-read the Seth book, "The Individual and Nature of Mass Events", so that I could refresh my memory about what Seth actually has to say in this book about mass events.

Having just completed re-read this entire book, here are some observations I have about it.



Many people have questions about the nature of mass events. Occasionally, these questions have to do with negative mass events such as wars, natural disasters and epidemics. Furthermore, in some situations, some of these questions also have to do with trying to understand the relationship that exists between mass events and an individual's ability to create their own reality.  In the book, "The Individual and Nature of Mass Events", Seth addresses many of these topics. 

In, "The Individual and Nature of Mass Events", Seth speaks to many topics related to mass events. This includes the topics of some of the "myths" that we consciously believe to be true. These myths come from various sources such as religions, science, the medical field and psychology.  In this book, Seth also discusses other related topics such as, Framework 1, Framework 2, the ego, the inner self, idealists, the paranoid, fanatics, Hitler, criminals, and the mass events of Jonestown, Harrisburg and Watergate. Toward the end of this book, Seth also discusses impulses, which turn out to be important messages that come from our inner selves, according to Seth.

Unfortunately, bits and pieces of some of the topics that Seth discusses in this book, are presented at various locations throughout the book. This makes it necessary to practically read the entire book, in order to get a more complete understanding of these specific topics.

Also, while Seth does a fairly complete job of discussing our individual involvement with the mass events of both epidemics and natural disasters in this book, he barely touches upon the topic of the individual and their relationship with the mass event of war. As a result of this, I've found that a good way to investigate some of these topics, is to refer to the index, located in the back of the book.




Below are several quotes from Seth in this book regarding mass events.


NoME, Ch 1, Session 801: (bold font is mine)

I have thus far stayed clear of many important and vital subjects, involving mass realities, because first of all the importance of the individual was to be stressed, and his power to form his private events.  Only when the private nature of reality was emphasized sufficiently would I be ready to show how the magnification of individual reality combines and enlarges to form vast mass reactions — such as, say, the initiation of an obviously new historical and cultural period; the rise or overthrow of governments; the birth of a new religion that sweeps all others before it; mass conversions; mass murders in the form of wars; the sudden sweep of deadly epidemics; the scourge of earthquakes, floods, or other disasters; the inexplicable appearance of periods of great art or architecture or technology.

Give us a moment ... Inner reality and private experience give birth to all mass events. Man cannot disentangle himself from the natural context of his physical life. His culture, his religion, his psychologies, and his psychological nature together form the context within which both private and mass events occur.



An epidemic, for example, serves the purposes of each individual who is involved, while it also serves its own functions in the greater species framework.

(10:19.) Now, no person becomes ill unless that illness serves a psychic or psychological reason,...

It is not understood that before life an individual decides to live. A self is not simply the accidental personification of the body's biological mechanism. Each person born desires to be born. He dies when that desire no longer operates. No epidemic or illness or natural disaster — or stray bullet from a murderer's gun — will kill a person who does not want to die.











NoME, Ch 1, Session 802: (bold font is mine)
In some historical periods the plight of the poor was so horrible, so unendurable, that outbreaks of the plague occurred,...

Individually, each "victim" was to one extent or another a "victim" of apathy, despair, or hopelessness, which automatically lowered bodily defenses.

(Long pause.) The environment in which an outbreak occurs points at the political, sociological, and economic conditions that have evolved, causing such disorder.

Initially there is a psychic contagion: Despair moves faster than a mosquito, or any outward carrier of a given disease. The mental state brings about the activation of a virus that is, in those terms, passive.

(Pause at 10:16.) Despair may seem passive only because it feels that exterior action is hopeless — but its fires rage inwardly, and that kind of contagion can leap from bed to bed and from heart to heart. It touches those, however, who are in the same state only, and to some extent it brings about an acceleration in which something can indeed be done in terms of group action.
The epidemics then serve many purposes — warning that certain conditions will not be tolerated. There is a biological outrage that will be continually expressed until the conditions are changed.



NoME, Ch 1, Session 802:

(Pause.) There has been great discussion in past years about the survival of the fittest, in Darwinian terms, but little emphasis is placed upon the quality of life, or of survival itself; or in human terms, [there has been] little probing into the question of what makes life worthwhile. Quite simply, if life is not worthwhile (louder), no species will have a reason to continue.












NoME, Ch 1, Session 803:
[...] You are never victims of natural disasters, though it may seem that you are, for you have your hand in forming them.

In those terms, natural disasters ultimately end up righting a condition that earlier blighted the desired quality of life, so that adjustments were made.

The "victims" choose to participate in those conditions at spiritual, psychological, and biological levels. Many of those who are counted among the fatalities might otherwise die of extended illnesses, for example. At cellular levels such knowledge is available, and in one way or another imparted, often in dreams, to the individual. Conscious comprehension need not follow, for many people know such things, and pretend not to know them at the same time.


NoME, Ch 2, Session 814:

A cough in June may be laughed off and quickly forgotten. A cough in the flu season, however, is far more suspect — and under such conditions one might think, particularly in the midst of a poor week: "Who wants to go out tomorrow anyhow?"

You are literally expected to come down with the flu. It can serve as an excuse for not facing many kinds of problems. Many people are almost consciously aware of what they are doing. All they have to do is pay attention to the suggestions offered so freely by the society. The temperature does rise. Concern causes the throat to become dry. Dormant viruses — which up to now have done no harm — are activated.




















NoME, Ch 2, Session 815: (bold font is mine)

[... 21 paragraphs ...]

The inner mechanisms that happen prior to your experience will take place in the vast mental studio of Framework 2. There, all the details will be arranged, the seemingly chance encounters, for example, the unexplained coincidences that might have to occur before a given physical event takes place.

[... 5 paragraphs ...]

Such events occur as a result of individual beliefs, desires, and intents. There is no such thing as a chance encounter. No death occurs by chance, nor any birth. In the creative atmosphere of Framework 2, intents are known. ...

[... 2 paragraphs ...]

You cannot gain what you want at someone else's detriment, then. You cannot use Framework 2 to force an event upon another person. Certain prerequisites must be met, you see, before a desired end can become physically experienced.


-jbseth