The Pyrenees of Spain and a discovery about an ancient site resembling atlantis

[pyromancy]

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/42072469/ns/technology_and_science-science/t/lost-city-atlantis-believed-found-spain/
more recent video


this is so unique to me because in fanciful depictions, Atlantis has that ringed structure and Plato describes it as being in this region. Seth says Plato imagined the idea on his own, but he was imagining something that was historical.

the pyrenees is considered to be this region and france. Another thing I noticed is if you google map the region near spain "pyrenees atlantique" is a province in spain
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrénées-Atlantiques

https://findingseth.com/q/pyrenees/
https://findingseth.com/q/atlantis/

[Sena]

the pyrenees is considered to be this region and france. Another thing I noticed is if you google map the region near spain "pyrenees atlantique" is a province in spain
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrénées-Atlantiques

https://findingseth.com/q/pyrenees/
https://findingseth.com/q/atlantis/

Pyromancy, thanks for this topic. It is very interesting indeed that Seth should mention the Pyrenees in connection with the Lumanians:

"While the civilization of the Lumanians was highly concentrated, in that they made no attempt to conquer others or to spread out to any great extent in area, they did set out, over the centuries, outposts from which they could emerge and keep track of the other native peoples. These outposts were constructed underground. From the original cities and large settlements there were, of course, underground connections, a system of tunnels, highly intricate and beautifully engineered. Since these were an aesthetic people, the walls were lined with paintings and drawings, and sculpture was also displayed along these inner byways. There were various escalated systems, some conveying people on foot, some conveying goods. It was not practical to construct such tunnels to the many outposts, however, which were fairly small communities and relatively self-supporting; some were a good distance away from the main areas of commerce and activity. (9:21.) These outposts were situated in many scattered areas, but there were a fairly large number of them in what is now Spain and the Pyrenees. There were several reasons for this, one having to do with the existence of rather giant-sized men in the mountain areas. Because of the timid nature of these [Lumanian] people, they did not enjoy outpost existence, and only the bravest and most confident of them were given such an assignment, which was temporary to begin with." (from "Seth Speaks: The Eternal Validity of the Soul (A Seth Book)" by Jane Roberts)

From the Kindle edition: https://amzn.eu/ekjTBGL

[Deb]

VERY cool and interesting—not only the discovery, but the Seth quote tying in Spain and the Pyrenees.

I tried to locate the area of the computer graphic on Google maps. When searching, I found what the article calls Dona Ana Park is actually Doñana, which surprised me that the paper would misrepresent the name. Regardless, I couldn't pinpoint the location on G maps, so searched for the NatGeo documentary mentioned in the article. I did find this one provided by Syndicado TV, it could be the same one. I haven't watched the whole thing yet, but they do show at 11:25 some computer graphics of the area which helped me identify the area. I've added screen captures if you're curious.

I'll watch the full documentary (50 minutes) today. I'm curious if there's been much progress in the excavation over the years, as the article is dated 2011. You'd think by now we would have heard more.

[pyromancy]

the pyrenees is considered to be this region and france. Another thing I noticed is if you google map the region near spain "pyrenees atlantique" is a province in spain
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrénées-Atlantiques

https://findingseth.com/q/pyrenees/
https://findingseth.com/q/atlantis/

Pyromancy, thanks for this topic. It is very interesting indeed that Seth should mention the Pyrenees in connection with the Lumanians:

"While the civilization of the Lumanians was highly concentrated, in that they made no attempt to conquer others or to spread out to any great extent in area, they did set out, over the centuries, outposts from which they could emerge and keep track of the other native peoples. These outposts were constructed underground. From the original cities and large settlements there were, of course, underground connections, a system of tunnels, highly intricate and beautifully engineered. Since these were an aesthetic people, the walls were lined with paintings and drawings, and sculpture was also displayed along these inner byways. There were various escalated systems, some conveying people on foot, some conveying goods. It was not practical to construct such tunnels to the many outposts, however, which were fairly small communities and relatively self-supporting; some were a good distance away from the main areas of commerce and activity. (9:21.) These outposts were situated in many scattered areas, but there were a fairly large number of them in what is now Spain and the Pyrenees. There were several reasons for this, one having to do with the existence of rather giant-sized men in the mountain areas. Because of the timid nature of these [Lumanian] people, they did not enjoy outpost existence, and only the bravest and most confident of them were given such an assignment, which was temporary to begin with." (from "Seth Speaks: The Eternal Validity of the Soul (A Seth Book)" by Jane Roberts)

From the Kindle edition: https://amzn.eu/ekjTBGL

This sounds so much like this series of cave paintings in southern France some of the oldest archaeological findings ever found.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lascaux

It's noted how complex this system of caves is. According to Seth they are artificial?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ochre
It reminds me of this quote about the red ochre paint used to make the drawings that has stuck with me because it implies that the red ochre in the caves is a geological mystery:

"The use of ochre is particularly intensive: it is not unusual to find a layer of the cave floor impregnated with a purplish red to a depth of eight inches. The size of these ochre deposits raises a problem not yet solved. The colouring is so intense that practically all the loose ground seems to consist of ochre. One can imagine that the Aurignacians regularly painted their bodies red, dyed their animal skins, coated their weapons, and sprinkled the ground of their dwellings, and that a paste of ochre was used for decorative purposes in every phase of their domestic life. We must assume no less, if we are to account for the veritable mines of ochre on which some of them lived...
— Leroi-Gourhan, A. 1968. The Art of Prehistoric Man in Western Europe. London: Thames & Hudson, p. 40."

[jbseth]

Hi Deb, Hi All,

To be honest, I've been confused by what Seth has said about Atlantis, for some time now. In many places, what Seth says about Atlantis, definitely seems to make it appear as though this was, in fact, a placed that actually existed in our past. However, in some other places, what Seth has to say about it, makes this appear that this is not completely the whole story on this topic.  Today, I thought I'd dig into this, and this is what I found.


When asked in TES1, S8, "Did Atlantis ever exist?" Seth responded, "Yes. It was one of many that came and vanished."

Then, in "Seth Speaks" Seth also mentions Atlantis on several different occasions. First, in telling us about the "Lumanians" he tells us that there were 3 civilizations, "before the time of Atlantis" and one of these 3 civilizations was the Lumanians (SS, Ch15, S562).

Then, Seth also tells us. "Before your idea of history, I was a Lumanian, and was later born in Atlantis". (SS, Ch22, S588)

Following this, Seth also tells us. "In your terms, and in your terms only, the Coming of Christ was the Second Coming. (Pause.) In those terms- and, again, this is important – in those terms only, he appeared at the time of Atlantis, but the records were destroyed and forgotten except in the memory of a few who survived." (SS, Appendix, S558)

These comments definitely make it appear that Seth is saying that Atlantis is a place that existed in our past. However, Seth has much more to say about this topic.




In UR2, Section 6, Session 742, Seth had a lot more to say about Atlantis, and here, what he has to say, makes me think that there is much more going on here, in terms of Atlantis.

Shortly after the very end of this session, we get comments from Rob about how he and Jane, "cringe a bit when Seth talks about "cultish" concepts like Atlantis."

In the session itself, Seth has quite a bit to say about Atlantis. Some of this makes it appear that maybe Atlantis isn't in our past. I've captured some of it here in the spoiler below.

Sorry but you must log in to view spoiler contents.

Then at the very end of his comments after this session, Rob says the following:

(After this evening's session, however, we decided we'd like to know why in Seth's view Atlantis had moved from its long, if uneasy residence in our "historical past" forward into a future probable reality. We resolved to ask him to explain — but strangely enough, I note later, a month passed before we got around to a session on the subject. By then, Seth had been through with "Unknown" Reality for three weeks. Now I refer the reader to Note 11 for quotations from the session, the 747th, in question.)



In the spoiler below, I captured some of what Seth had to say in Note 11 of this session. This Note 11 contained not only information about Atlantis, but also about where Plato came up with this information.

Sorry but you must log in to view spoiler contents.

Then, in addition to all of this, Seth also says the following in TPS4, Deleted Session, August 28, 1978:

[... 28 paragraphs ...]

There, I lived in the land people called Atlantis in your past. The Atlantis, however, as it is known in myth and pseudo-fact, is a psychic structure from the future that sheds its light backward into the past, and illuminates not one but several past cultures, which taken together, become in your terms a conglomerate Atlantis.

The Atlanteans, so-called for example, are supposed to be coming back now. All concepts and ideas in the first place, referring to a continuous forward progression of time distort all reincarnational experiences as a rule. It is almost impossible to describe some of what I know. Simple facts to me sometimes appear quite clearly in the material I give you—but then I perceive that the particular information escapes you completely. I can say that I traveled in Rome at about the time of Christ. To me there is no contradiction between that statement and the statement that the reality of that Rome is even now being affected by present, current concepts and beliefs. The past changes, even as in your terms, say, a river does—only the changes go out in all directions. Atlantis is as real as tomorrow is—and that is a loaded statement.


-jbseth

[Deb]

Update: I just finished watching the Finding Atlantis documentary and enjoyed it very much! I thought I'd add another image, this one being their idea of what Atlantis looked like when it existed. It was pretty much sand bars in a bay. They also found some structures in the ocean nearby, thought to be man made, and a couple of small statues.

I thought the documentary was worth watching, very well made.

Here's a little tidbit from partially unpublished Session 747 (the underlining is his):

Ruburt has implied in The Education of Oversoul Seven that some archaeological
discoveries about the past are not discovered in your present because they do
not exist yet. Now such concepts are difficult to explain in my kind of prose.
They are also difficult to explain in your language. But in certain terms the ruins
of Atlantis have not been found because they have not yet been placed in your
past from that future.

Now the future is probable, there are, however, ruins in your terms, of the civilizations
that served as a concrete basis for the one Atlantean legend.

Those civilizations, however, were scattered. The so-called ruins would not be
found in any one place as expected, therefore. There are some beneath the
Aegean Sea and some beneath an offshoot of the Atlantic, and some beneath
the Antarctic, for the world had a different shape. In far greater terms at the risk
of repeating myself, time is simultaneous. So those civilizations exist along with
your own. Your methods of dating the age of the earth are very misleading. A
new scientific discovery within two years will make that fact even more obvious
than it is now.

[Deb]

To be honest, I've been confused by what Seth has said about Atlantis, for some time now. In many places, what Seth says about Atlantis, definitely seems to make it appear as though this was, in fact, a placed that actually existed in our past. However, in some other places, what Seth has to say about it, makes this appear that this is not completely the whole story on this topic.

Jbseth, somehow I missed your post, I think I was still watching the video when you put it up. Reading the quotes you put up, I'm a bit confused too. The confusion may be tied to simultaneous time, past present future being in constant flux. Not to mention probabilities. Maybe that unpublished bit explains it a little -- "But in certain terms the ruins of Atlantis have not been found because they have not yet been placed in your past from that future." That's enough to give my brain a Charlie Horse. Maybe since Seth made that quote, the ruins have been placed in our past by "now." 

I'll read all the quotes again and see if that's a missing link.

[jbseth]

Anew scientific discovery within two years will make that fact even more obviousthan it is now.

Hi Deb, Hi All,

I wonder what scientific discovery Seth was talking about here?

Does anyone here have any idea?

-jbseth

[Deb]

I wonder what scientific discovery Seth was talking about here?

Does anyone here have any idea?

No, I've wondered about that. I can say at least 25 years ago a friend told me that scientists had discovered carbon dating was faulty, but I never followed up on that.

Seth: "Your ideas of Atlantis are partially composed of future memories."

This one sentence makes me wonder, was Seth was saying that our "idea" of Atlantis is like comparing our historical version of Jesus to the actual person who walked the Earth, ours (religion's) being an idealized version of, or a myth, with a seed of truth? That would also explain "The Atlantis, however, as it is known in myth and pseudo-fact, is a psychic structure from the future that sheds its light backward into the past, and illuminates not one but several past cultures, which taken together, become in your terms a conglomerate Atlantis."

I've never spent much time on learning about Atlantis, I've not been much into myths. Growing up, Atlantis seemed to be this fantastical civilization with super advanced inhabitants, gods and goddesses, whatever, until it fell into the ocean. The documentary said the location was referred to as Tarsessos and Tarshish in the Bible, and then Atlantis by Plato. The area is rich in metals (at about 30:00 in the docu), and at the time ships would travel for 3 years from the near east and Mediterranean to load up on precious metals. They also cover ruins in Greece that have been thought to be Atlantis, so there goes Seth's saying that our legend of Atlantis was based on based on more than one civilization.

There's also what is being thought of as a "shrine" to Atlantis about 250 miles north (Cancho Roano, about 46:15), tying it to Atlantis with a 3500 year old symbol of holy metalurgy. Supposedly there were three ancient cities famous for their metalurgy skills—Tarshish, Tarsessos and Atlantis. All being one and the same.

This tells me Seth realized how confusing this material is for us: "It is almost impossible to describe some of what I know. Simple facts to me sometimes appear quite clearly in the material I give you—but then I perceive that the particular information escapes you completely."

[pyromancy]

This is interesting. At the end of the page is describes skulls which might be the one referred to in the Seth text where giant skulls of france are mentioned.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giant_of_Castelnau

I'll also add that in Azores islands off the coast of Portugal there are temples and ruins on the island. There are articles online about underwater things but it's difficult to tell if the sources are reliable. Allegedly underwater pyramids.

The ruins might just be Roman but who knows how old they really are?

[pyromancy]

I think what's most telling for me is how out of all the Atlantis imagery I've ever seen, it has that ring or concentric ring structure to it. Like in the videogame World of Warcraft which millions of people played there's a city called Dalaran and it is undoubtedly based off that imaginary theme of a city of psychics/wizards. Just google image it or "atlantis city rings". In our imagination all kinds of drawings I've seen portray it that way.

Trying to depict the U.S. in the future like 3,000 or 11,000 years from now it'd be difficult to portray the U.S. with it's vastly different regions and territories.

The part about metal reminds me of Orichalcum it's something mentioned in those Mediterranean legends.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orichalcum

I've tried to determine what it is and it's one of those things where it's difficult to know what it was really composed of. What if some day they find a ton of this? There are thought to be examples of this material discovered in shipwrecks ingots of it. Uniquely forged combination metal.

[jbseth]

Hi Deb, Hi All,

Here's what I get from Seth on all of this.

1)
There was no actual "Atlantis", as described by Plato in the past. However, there were advanced civilizations in the past and these have become the basis for the "Atlantis" legends.

There were many highly technical human cultures, but in your terms not on a global scale. The legend of Atlantis is actually based upon several such civilizations. No particular civilization is the basis, however.

However, in your terms there are ruins of the civilizations that served as the 'concrete' basis for the one Atlantean legend. Those civilizations were scattered. The so-called ruins would not be found in any one place as expected, therefore. There are some beneath the Aegean Sea, and some beneath an offshoot of the Atlantic, and some beneath the Arctic, for the world had a different shape.

2)
Atlantis, as described by Plato, was a precognition of a future probability. Plato, in glimpsing into the future, may have picked up on our world as it exists today, (rockets, planes, a space station, space craft, computers, automobiles, supertankers, nuclear weapons, dams, nuclear power plants, etc.). If you think about it, compared to the Ancient Greeks and Ancient Romans, we are a highly technical advanced society from that standpoint.

For Plato, this was a blueprint for how a future civilization might be very technically advanced.

Apart from that, the legend as picked up, so to speak, by Plato (see Appendix 14) was a precognition of the future probability, an image of an inner civilization of the mind actually projected outward into the future, where it would be used as a blueprint

3)
Seth also says tells us that all time is simultaneous and all probabilities exist. Thus, in Janes, "The Education of Oversoul Seven" book, Proteus, in the 23rd century, discovers a scratch in a tile of an ancient civilization, that wasn't there yesterday, in his time. This tile scratch, was made by Ma-ah, today, in her time, which was 35,000 years ago. Yesterday in her time, this tile was unscratched. This type of thing occurs because the past and the future interact with each other.

Thus, Atlantis exists now, just like Ancient Rome exists now. Furthermore, along with this, I'd also say that Middle Earth (from Lord of the Rings) exists now, Tatooine (from Star Wars) exists now and Hogwarts (from Harry Potter) also exists now.

"Ruburt has implied in [his novel] The Education of Oversoul Seven that some archaeological discoveries about the past (underlined) are not discovered in your present because they do not exist yet.

But in certain terms, the ruins of Atlantis have not been found because they have not been placed in your past yet, from the future.

Atlantis is as real as tomorrow is—and that is a loaded statement.

- jbseth

[pyromancy]

"beneath an offshoot of the Atlantic" as a location sounds very appropriate to describe this place. Its a pocket in Spain.

It's amazing to me how much stuff is discovered with satellites these days. I think this is a part of why "the time isn't right" comes in to play with a lot of these topics.

In Kazakhstan and Jordan they found petroglyphs in remote regions in plateaus practically no one even know existed. A few years ago I just read that there is a colossal monolithic platform above the ancient city of Petra discovered in 2016 and we can't explain it's size. Baalbek is another total anomaly but has been known for ages.

There are youtube videos just showing hundreds upon hundreds of of geoglyphs in the Amazon in places that were deforested only in the past few decades. Most of this is only noticeable from satellite photos. A lot of places just look like ridges or trenches because of how large they are.

These are discoveries from just the past decade.

[jbseth]

In UR2, Section 6, Session 742, Seth had a lot more to say about Atlantis, and here, what he has to say, makes me think that there is much more going on here, in terms of Atlantis.

Shortly after the very end of this session, we get comments from Rob about how he and Jane, "cringe a bit when Seth talks about "cultish" concepts like Atlantis."

Hi All,

I kind of wonder whether any of the things that Seth had to say to Rob and Jane about Atlantis, were limited by the fact that Rob and Jane felt that "cultish" topics like this made them "cringe".

-jbseth

[pyromancy]

I think it's the same way this isn't widely reported.

There's a lot of evidence indicating it as historically valid but it's just something people would roll their eyes at. Some people don't like the word psychic. Some people shake their heads at Atlantis and say it was a work of fiction.

I think it's funny the word "channel" and "New Age" were terms Jane didn't like because that's how almost anyone new to her ideas and the era they were formed in would describe her activities. Psychic and trance are the words she preferred.

Let's say for example it's proven that this is Atlantis beyond any reasonable doubt...who cares? I think that's the honest response you'd get from most people.

The place hasn't been extensively excavated because it's a preserve.

I think I run in to a problem with people who think there needs to be a divide between what is mystic/spiritual and what is scientific because it's just information. Whether it is valid or not should be the real question.

[jbseth]

Hi All,

In regards to Atlantis, in UR2, Section 6, S742, Note 11, Seth said:

Apart from that, the legend as picked up, so to speak, by Plato (see Appendix 14) was a precognition of the future probability, an image of an inner civilization of the mind actually projected outward into the future, where it would be used as a blueprint,...


Then in UR1, Section 1, S687 he says the following:

[... 24 paragraphs ...]

The great latent-but-always-sensed dimensions of spiritualized creaturehood will then begin to flower. A few great men have glimpsed those abilities, comma, and their love of the race and their integrity had caused them to trigger the unused portions of the brain.2 In their way they sensed the great probable future and its ramifications.

I wonder if this "trigger" idea is what Seth was referring to when he said that the Atlantis legend, as picked up by Plato, was a precognition of the future probability?


-jbseth

[pyromancy]

I think that's a good interpretation.

Something else I mentioned is how it's pretty unique how much energy is in the name Atlantis. It makes a person imagine a psychic utopia, while others don't care for it at all, and how many millions of people have never heard the term at all. You have to be a person in a modern society who has felt European influence somehow because that's the region and imagery associated with it.

[jbseth]

Hi All,

I did see the movie, "Atlantis, the Lost Continent", many years ago when I was liitle, and I've always been fascinated with the story.

-jbseth