The coronavirus

[jbseth]

jbseth, perhaps the powerful point was to disprove evangelistic doctrines? The way I understand evengelism is that they claim that only their group is "saved". According to evangelism (and Cathoiicism), Seth is satanic:

Hi Sena, Hi All,

I don't know about the point being to disprove evangelistic doctrine. That could be, but based upon the article, it seems to me that his daughter at least, has recognized a strong need that people participate in social distancing right now.

I have no doubt that many members of various Christian churches would consider Seth's messages as being nothing more than the words of the devil. That's too bad for them as I find his messages to be very insightful.

However, I also happen to know that not all Christian churches believe in this. The members of the "New Thought" Christian Churches, like "Unity" and "The Centers for Spiritual Living"  are very much open-minded, with a religious philosophy that's similar to Seth's and that derives from people like "Emerson", whom Seth said was a Speaker. Since I'm both aware of this, and since my wife and I occasionally attend one of these churches, I don't bucket "all" Christian churches together into this category.


On a more personal note, unfortunately, I've been having some problems with my laptop lately and it doesn't play youtube videos that people post on the Seth forum. 

Sometimes it will and sometimes it won't even play youtube videos at other locations on my laptop. I've got to fix this problem because several Seth readers like yourself have posted many good videos here in the last month or so, that I haven't been able to watch.

-jbseth

[Sena]

For example, did this bishop think that this coronavirus suddenly appeared because it was a sign from God that resulted from the fact that God is displeased with some of mankind's choices? 

jbseth, the bishop may well have thought that certain people were deserving of God's punishment, and that God sent the virus to those people.

[Sena]

This graphic is from this website:

https://voxeu.org/article/coronavirus-meets-great-influenza-pandemic

It shows the percentage of the population which died in the Spanish Flu pandemic of 1918-1919. For instance, 5% of the pop of India died,  less than 1% in the U.S.A. and U.K.

[Jack]

Hi all,

This is a generally related type of post; it applies to what the coronavirus is bringing us, as well as to what comes after.  I hope it's OK in this topic.

My understanding is that everyone dies according to their own overall life and death plan, made before they were born.  Some say an individual can modify their plan during their life, and change the end date.  Maybe, maybe not.

Regardless of the what the real cause of death might be (specific beliefs, etc.), it seems like it was something the individual planned to experience.

I see a couple of very general ways to look at those who die in the time leading up to what we're seeing now, and those who are dying now.

The first way to consider this for me, is the bypassing of difficult times.  My best friend, and wife from a former life, died a little over a year ago.  Also, both of my ex-fiance's parents died in the last few years.  The current global situation made me realize how smart they were.  They chose to leave before all this happened.  Even more significant, they chose to leave before what is starting to be described as the worst economic disaster since the Great Depression.  So, I'm impressed with their planning skills.

On the other hand, it seems we learn a lot by going through difficult times.  So I would not be surprised if some number of the people who have died recently, and who have planned to die from this virus, have another plan to put into place.  And that would be to come back in new bodies in the next few years.  They will get an entirely different learning experience from those of us who lived during what will likely have been the peak of the current civilization, and who will be missing what we used to have.  Maybe some of these people will help bring into place the new way of living, an essentially new civilization, that Seth has described will be in place by 2075.  It's going to be quite a ride to get there by the looks of things.

So when I hear about this or that person passing away, famous and/or highly talented or not, I like to think more along the lines of "good on ya, mate, what's next for you?"

Certainly those left behind who cared for them will miss them.  I miss my best friend, but I know I cannot lose her.  She was, and is, quite the character.  We've had a lot of adventures together over many lifetimes, and I look forward to seeing what her next antics will be.

I think in time, certainly by 2075 if Seth is right, we'll all be less distraught by changes in the focus of a soul from here to there, at whatever level and wherever "there" might be.

And I still believe that the difficult times we're seeing, and those coming that we can't see yet, will help us eventually come together to form this new civilization much faster than we otherwise would.

The harder it gets, the closer we're getting.  But, it sounds like it's going to be amazing when we come out on the other side of the changes.

[jbseth]

jbseth, the bishop may well have thought that certain people were deserving of God's punishment, and that God sent the virus to those people.

Hi Sena,

Yes. that too.

If so, I wonder if he thought that he was a member of that group?

[Sena]

My best friend, and wife from a former life, died a little over a year ago.  Also, both of my ex-fiance's parents died in the last few years.  The current global situation made me realize how smart they were.  They chose to leave before all this happened.  Even more significant, they chose to leave before what is starting to be described as the worst economic disaster since the Great Depression.  So, I'm impressed with their planning skills.

On the other hand, it seems we learn a lot by going through difficult times.  So I would not be surprised if some number of the people who have died recently, and who have planned to die from this virus, have another plan to put into place.  And that would be to come back in new bodies in the next few years.

Jack, thanks for sharing your personal experience with us. If I could take you up on the last sentence I have quoted, you are right they may come back to Planet Earth in the next few years, or they may go to a different solar system or different universe.

[Jack]

If I could take you up on the last sentence I have quoted, you are right they may come back to Planet Earth in the next few years, or they may go to a different solar system or different universe.

Hi Sena,

You're welcome.

I think you're absolutely correct.  But let's go one further - they might do both, maybe at the same time.

I read a story by Robert Moss (mossdreams.com) in one of his books about where he was sick, and I believe in a coma.  He experienced an entire life on another planet in that time.  I think his story is an accurate depiction of what can and does happen.  The key is the variability of time from different levels.  A soul can do far more at one level than in another, in a given period of time at the lower level.  I think Seth mentioned somewhere that there are entities whose experience is such that a blink of an eye for them is about the same as the entire existence of our universe.  Anyway, if we can experience another planet, in another solar system in another galaxy while in a coma, we can certainly at the very least have that experience at this same level, between lifetimes on this planet.

This is one of several reasons I'm not freaked out as much as one might expect about global warming.  This is not the only planet we learn on.  We want to take care of any planet we're on, but sometimes our learning involves what happens when we don't.  I think in time, Earth will be fine, once we stop trying to kill it.

I am curious about the structure of possible multiple universes and our connections to them.  For me, any level of life that is connected to this level, would be in the same universe.  In other words, when my body expires, I think my focus shifts to a level of energy that's connected very directly to here, but has a different speed of light, and that speed varies at different levels.  It's still here (in this universe), but not here where we can sense it directly.  Also, the multiple universe idea of each decision leading to a branch of life activity in an alternate universe, to me is still in what I would consider this universe.  It's not a burning question of mine right now, but I'd like to understand what is truly a different universe, and I'm not sure if we would be directly connected from this universe to one I would truly consider a different one.  To me it's probable that all universes are connected, but I haven't spent any time mulling the concept or the construction that would allow it.

[Sena]

I think in time, Earth will be fine, once we stop trying to kill it.

Jack, I respect your view, but I don't share your optimism. I have just started reading "Homo Deus: A Brief History of Tomorrow".

https://www.ynharari.com/book/homo-deus/

As the self-made gods of planet earth, which projects should we undertake, and how will we protect this fragile planet and humankind itself from our own destructive powers? The book Homo Deus gives us a glimpse of the dreams and nightmares that will shape the 21st century.

[Jack]

I have just started reading "Homo Deus: A Brief History of Tomorrow".

Sena,

For myself sometimes "ignorance is bliss" is very applicable, and perhaps leads to the optimism.  And sometimes what appears to be optimism is simply not addressing or focusing on the less optimistic parts.

I looked at the book's site, and my first impression is that the future the author is expecting can never happen due to things he's not looking for or aware of.  I don't think we'll be able to continue on our present path with the strength and the time required to apply that strength in a negative fashion for his fears to be fully realized.  Certainly I can see why he'd put his ideas forth as described on the home page, given what most people might expect of the future.  And maybe he'll be right about the future; maybe just for the short term, maybe for a bit longer.

I've just seen too much content from a variety of sources that shows we're on a very different path.  A path that in the short term will likely be far more difficult for humans than what "Homo Deus" might describe.  However, with eventually far less humans attacking the earth trying to kill it, with far less of the resources we have now (these are the parts I left out), I think Earth will be fine eventually.  Earth may not be exactly like what we have now, probably worse in some places, but also in time likely far better in some places than it is now.

I hope that doesn't totally remove any perceived optimism. 

[Jack]

from a while back, March 16, 2020:

...I look forward to a time when we are past this, at which point a number of positive permanent changes will occur:...

Can you think of more positives?

Hi LarryH, all,

It would be nice to see universal basic income eventually come from all this.

I saw where the Pope finally put his hat in the ring as in favor of universal basic income.  It's a big hat.

Then, I realized this morning the likely reason the Pope is just now announcing his church is in favor of this.  I'm guessing it's because their revenue is down, and he expects his church to get a 10% tithe of the basic income his members will receive.  I'd love to be wrong, but one would think any other reason would have had them pushing for this decades ago.

Regardless of why it happens, it would be a major improvement to get this implemented sooner rather than later.

[jbseth]

Hello Jack, Hi All,

Hey, thanks for your interesting comments here.

My sister died of cancer just a few months ago, in mid - January, 2020, and I've wondered whether or not this coronavirus event had anything to do with her decision. While the timing sure seems to be really interesting, I have to admit that I have no idea, whether it or not it had anything to do with her specific situation. Who's to say?

I'm open to the possibility that people also can and do reincarnate backwards in time.

In Janes book, "The Education of Oversoul Seven", Oversoul Seven was an entity who had four personalities on earth, Ma-ah, Joseph, Lydia and Proteus. In this story Joseph lived in the 16th or 17th century and Lydia, lived in the 20th century. After Lydia died, when she reincarnated, she opted to come back again, as the daughter of Joseph and his wife Bianca, who lived in the 16th or 17th century. Thus, in this case, Lydia reincarnated backwards in time.

I think that one of the reasons why Jane may have written this story was to express this concept that reincarnation can also occur backwards in time.

I really like your philosophy of, "good on ya, mate, what's next for you?"

I kind of think that we are all like actors and life is just a big free-form play. Before we come into this world, we each create a general guideline about what the present play is to be all about along with some general guidelines as to what our particular character is all about including what this character wants to do and accomplish in the play.

Then, when we are born.

After being born, we discover that the guidelines were just that, guidelines, and the play is all improvisation and very creative. As the play goes along, we go with the flow, making real-time active choices for our characters in the play.

Then, at some point, we begin to get tired of playing this same character and this same role in this play and so we opt out of it.

Then once we opt out, after we've taken some time to refresh ourselves, we contact our agent and start looking for another play needing another actor, where we can once again hone our acting skills via participating as a different character in another play.

-jbseth

[Deb]

According to evangelism (and Cathoiicism), Seth is satanic:

As I was told by a born again neighbor and a relative, anything that does not extoll the virtues of the savior Jesus Christ, comes from Satan. That's the test.

This same relative is taking none of this virus seriously in any way, because she knows that the Lord will protect her. BTW she's VERY good about making her own reality, always has been, because of her strong belief in Jesus. It's just amazing to watch her create.

Apparently her belief in protection from God is stronger than the bishop's was.

jbseth, the bishop may well have thought that certain people were deserving of God's punishment, and that God sent the virus to those people.

If so, I wonder if he thought that he was a member of that group?

Or maybe in his own way he sacrificed himself for the "good" of others? I bet there are more parishioners than his daughter that learned from his mistake. I need to reacquaint myself with the personalities of Jim Jones and David Koresh, there may be clues there.

As far as people not respecting nature or the planet, I still feel that the earth is very good at taking care of itself and it's the humans I worry about. Look at how quickly nature is entering less traveled areas now that things have slowed down. How quickly the pollution has cleared. The waters clearing, dolphins returning to the canals in Venice. In a matter of weeks, compared to how long it's taken mankind to pollute those areas. No one really knows yet (and may never know) exactly how the virus was released, but it's seems coincidental that it came from animals (nature), people are getting sick and dying, and nature is recovering because of it. Even world economics are crashing because of this "gift from nature." These types of things will continue to happen until we get it right. The virus is showing us our weaknesses and many things that need improvement. Not to mention a very clear message about our effect on the environment. Humans still don't recognize that we are a part of nature, not apart from it.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/10/coronavirus-empty-streets-around-the-world-are-attracting-wildlife.html

[Sena]

I still feel that the earth is very good at taking care of itself and it's the humans I worry about.

Deb, 1.7 million viruses transmitted from wild animals to man may ensure a beautiful, human-free Earth? The Anthropocene was good while it lasted, produced some great music which other animals could not have done.

Lizards and rats in an Indonesian "wet" market:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropocene

[Jack]

Hi jbseth, all,

My sister died of cancer just a few months ago, in mid - January, 2020

@jbseth, I hope you had been as prepared for your sister's death as I was for my friend Norma's death from cancer last year.

Norma had a dream 4 years before her death that made it clear her time was coming.  It even described what she was wearing when I saw her the last time she was in the hospital.  Her dream included her being given a very boring floral print dress with "obituary" printed across the butt.  She would not be uh, caught dead, in a floral print like that.  I knew when I saw the hospital gown they'd given her, it was from her dream, and she would not be leaving the hospital alive.  The floral print was exactly what I'd pictured in my head when she'd told me the dream 4 years before, and it's interesting that the back and butt is typically open on a gown like that, where the dream had written "obituary" across the butt of the dress.  Pretty impressive dream of hers if you ask me.  Beyond that, I was given quite strong, and frequent intuitive hits that her time was coming.  She was a former nurse, among other things.  I was elected by her son and her sister to be in the room when her body was disconnected from the machines.  I think Norma even arranged it from another level that the nurse in the room with me had had a dream a year before his ex-fiance died, showing exactly how she was going to die - and in the dream it was from an operation he was studying at the time of his dream - 100% accurate.  So this nurse and I got to talk extensively about dreams, and it didn't seem like he got to do that much.  Norma is quite the character to have set that up, and to have prepared me over the years for her departure from this plane.  I told her the whole time I was going to reverse haunt her if she passed before me.  I haven't quite figured out how to do that yet.

I'm open to the possibility that people also can and do reincarnate backwards in time.

It seems like reincarnating backwards should be something we can do.  And I read "The Education of Oversoul Seven" a few years ago, although I don't specifically recall the backwards reincarnation part.  I do remember that I loved that book.

I think Seth said our lives are not sequential, but are all happening at once.  Even if he did not, I think that's the case.  If time does not really exist, it would seem we incarnate forwards and backwards, all at the same time.

Now if our lives are simultaneous, that seems to imply the entire set of lives is planned out before any are begun.

I kind of think that we are all like actors and life is just a big free-form play...

I very much would like your description of the play of life to be how it works.

I think about this a lot.  I don't think we can understand it too well without a good understanding of how time works, and precisely how thoughts work.  Since all events are said to be simultaneous, it seems we need this understanding of time and thoughts to more fully understand how creating works.  I like that it seems like it works, it seems like we make choices along the way, but I want to know how it works.

For me, it sometimes feels like I'm being taught by higher levels of myself and what I guess we'd call my guides from higher levels.  And my skill level is comparable to occasionally wining at checkers at the community recreation center, and the higher level teachers are international champions of tri-level chess.  Oh, and they think they're funny, with the lessons they give me (yes, I know I agreed to them at some level).  The thing is, they are often hilarious.

I love reading posts on here and replying, but for now, I gotta get back to the wax-on, wax-off of life (after one more post, about Kevin Costner).

[Jack]

Kevin Costner is prescient.

He knew the coronavirus was coming, as well as fast sea level rises, and he made movies out of all this.

I live in Fort Lauderdale.  Over the last few weeks, I've been seeing huge cruise ships, just sitting off the coast, 2 and 3 at a time, a few miles out.  We know they are not getting used, and it's possible they may never be used again, or at least some of them.

I'm also seeing what might be oil tankers, and cargo ships out there.  It seems like more than one might normally see at a time.  Who knows how many of these are in use, and how many are just sitting there.

Also, it seems like every week we hear that this ice sheet or that glacier is melting way faster than we thought, and each one can raise the sea level by 100 meters (ok, slight exaggeration on the rise, but hey, it's a post about Kevin Costner, gotta go big).

"Waterworld" is coming soon to an ocean, and some land, near you.  Only this time, it includes cruise ships!

Have you seen the news in the last few days?

It seems our federal government might be letting the Post Office fade away.

I guess we better start getting our horses ready.

"The Postman" will be riding to your town shortly.

[LarryH]

New California study shows $1 billion silver lining due to coronavirus shelter-in-place orders:
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/4/20/1938864/-New-California-study-shows-1-billion-silver-lining-due-to-coronavirus-shelter-in-place-orders

[Deb]

I'm really enjoying all the unexpected bonuses from the shutdowns, such as less pollution, wildlife coming out of hiding, families spending time together. People getting exercise! I see people out jogging, biking and walking that look like they haven't exercised in years. They may even lose a few pounds. I've seen families out fishing.

Dept of Transportation has been getting roads repaired in record time as they can cut traffic down to one lane any time of the day, even on highways.

Funny, just this morning I saw a fire truck go up a main road near my house and suddenly realized I hadn't seen or heard one in a while. There's a fire department a few blocks from my house and I'm used to hearing sirens all day long as there are a lot of high-traffic intersections and highways in the area. Noise pollution has certainly gone down.

[LarryH]

"The self cannot get the virus. The self cannot die."

Local (to me) spiritual teacher, author of The Untethered Soul and The Surrender Experiment, Mickey Singer speaks about the pandemic:

[jbseth]

Hi LarryH, Hi All,

In regards to the statement, the self doesn't die, in NOME, Seth says something similar.


NOME, Ch1, S801:

Dying is a biological necessity, not only for the individual, but to insure the continued vitality of the species. Dying is a spiritual and psychological necessity, for after a while the exuberant, ever-renewed energies of the spirit can no longer be translated into flesh.

Inherently, each individual knows that he or she must die physically in order to survive spiritually and psychically (underlined). The self outgrows the flesh. ...


- jbseth

[Sena]

Did this bishop perhaps hold some invisible beliefs about why this coronavirus suddenly seemed to appear in our reality? For example, did this bishop think that this coronavirus suddenly appeared because it was a sign from God that resulted from the fact that God is displeased with some of mankind's choices?

jbseth, dying of a heart attack is boring. The bishop got a lot more sympathy because he died of the coronavirus. If you watch TV you can see the outpourings of sympathy.
Hysterical perosnality is a personality disorder marked by immaturity, dependence, self-centeredness, and vanity, with a craving for attention, activity, or excitement, and behavior that is markedly unstable or manipulative.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/hysterical-personality

[LarryH]

Sena (and anybody who has not already answered these two questions):

1. From a Sethian perspective, what is/are the purpose(s) of this mass event?

2. To what extent do you agree or disagree with guidelines such as social distancing, many businesses closed, wearing masks in grocery stores, etc.?

[T.M.]

Hi All,

Hi Larry,

1.  Society facing conditions and inequalities it's been becoming aware of for awhile.
There are some very positive things that can come from this all.
I'm very hopeful more communities will become self-sufficient, and caring for its local members.
People becoming at least more self-sufficient with gardening, less reliant on any outside system.
People understanding how to medically take care of themselves.
Less global, more local

2. I'm in a very small town, with few cases. I am avoiding interaction with crowds as much as possible. At first I was wearing gloves and a scarf for a mask. Now, I have them with me, but am not wearing as much, depending on circumstances. I try to shop during off hours. If I go to a crowded place, then I will wear them.
Not because I actually believe in the virus much anymore.
Because I don't want to add any more  fear or infringement to other people

Eta: probably less than 25% of people I see in the local stores are wearing masks and gloves

[Deb]

Eta: probably less than 25% of people I see in the local stores are wearing masks and gloves

I also feel there will some good changes from this incident. I have to say, I'm feeling like a freaking survivalist right now because somehow I'm prepared for just about anything. It's not intentional (i.e. preparing for a disaster), it's just that my interests have left me amazingly independent. Maybe because my parents grew up during the depression and I learned from them. But my life so far has not been affected much, other than the shopping limitations.

I would say 99% of the people in my grocery stores have masks of some sort, often worn under their noses, lol. Many bandanas. I finally broke down and made masks just to pacify others. I've actually seen people driving, cycling and hiking wearing masks! I put one on for the first time yesterday to visit the grocery story, and hated it. I hate having anything cover my face, it feels like I'm being suffocated.

The town I'm in has a population of 107,000 (it's not even a real town, it's just a suburb). 113 cases of the virus. People are taking the social distancing very seriously, which is fine. I'd rather see that, than people defying the restriction and then us getting a more severe lockdown. I really need the freedom of taking a daily hike.

Last week a retired police officer was handcuffed and arrested in front of his 8 year old daughter, because they were playing catch in a park. Not in my town, but up north in Broomfield. People are "ratting" on others and it's encouraged. Drones being employed. My mind keeps going back to The Sound of Music.

1. From a Sethian perspective, what is/are the purpose(s) of this mass event?

I don't know yet. But I think there's more than one. Today I saw someone post on Facebook today with details about what's done to animals in the markets in China, and certain celebrations. Such as the upcoming Dog Meat Festival (I won't supply links, they're out there). And the treatment of humans: the loyalty app, concentration (aka re-education) camps, One Child Policy, live donor organ harvesting. Severe pollution. It seems to me that the Chinese government treats its people the way the people treat animals. I'm horrified by what I read, but maybe the repeated viral epidemics that originate in China are making a statement about the lack of respect for life and nature in general in the world. I even read today that the Spanish flu originated in China. I have not researched that, I never know what I can believe any more. https://www.realclearscience.com/blog/2020/02/18/why_do_new_disease_outbreaks_always_seem_to_start_in_china.html  Maybe the world will put pressure on China and all countries, to be more in tune with and respectful of nature. Money talks (unfortunately).

2. To what extent do you agree or disagree with guidelines such as social distancing, many businesses closed, wearing masks in grocery stores, etc.?

There's the F1 me that sees a new virus that has infected the world, and I'm trying to sort out what's true, what's not, what has been hyped. The latest test results with a massive amount of positive antibody tests makes me really wonder if this has been inflated. But then I look at places like Italy and Spain. Social distancing is not a big deal for me, easy enough, but businesses and people really do need to get back to work. Everyone is being fiscally affected. I'd really like to think I can retire some day, but the retirement account is shrinking and my financial adviser keeps taking years off the amount of time I can afford to live. I grew up poor, and could do poor again if I had to. But life is good, and I've worked hard to get to where I am. There are a lot of businesses across the board that are suffering, some that will go out of business. What a shame.

One of the unexpected things for me has been the benefits from the shutdowns. I'm actually enjoying the peacefulness. Then there are people like my son: he cooks at an upscale trendy restaurant in a snooty part of Denver. He was furloughed for a while and then called back to work because the restaurant has made some record sales in the past few weeks (pick up & delivery only), and he's the super-producer in the kitchen. He's also been driving for GrubHub on his off days, so he's probably making double what he normally would. He's not alone. Other businesses, such as grocery stores and of course Amazon, are making a lot of money right now.

There are some states weaning off the restrictions soon, Colorado being one of them. As an inhabitant of F1, I think caution is not a bad thing, but let's see how things go for the states that are loosening up controls. I don't think we can shut down everything for 18 months, that's not realistic. I can't live in fear, don't fear death, and am willing to do whatever it takes to get us through this.

[T.M.]

Hi All,

Hi Deb,

" I'd rather see that, than people defying the restriction and then us getting a more severe lockdown. I really need the freedom of taking a daily hike." 

Same here. I don't want to give them the excuse for more drastic lockdowns. I would go stark raving mad if I had to stay indoors permanently. I hope report your neighbor doesn't become popular here. Every time I'm out, it looks like everyone is behaving basically.

I got an ebike last year. Right before winter and didn't get a chance to ride much. It's a blast to ride around on though!
That's what I usually do when I go out. Easy to social distance that way too

Town population is 31,000. We have 62 confirmed in the county, which would likely be an amalgamation of a few towns.
I dislike wearing the scarf/mask too. If everyone else is and it puts others at ease, I can for awhile.

That's good that your prepared though!!!  I wanted to start doing that anyways. I think it's a good mind set and practice. I saw what was happening in China and thought it might be coming here and put some supplies aside. Very glad I did now!

[Sena]

Sena (and anybody who has not already answered these two questions):

1. From a Sethian perspective, what is/are the purpose(s) of this mass event?

2. To what extent do you agree or disagree with guidelines such as social distancing, many businesses closed, wearing masks in grocery stores, etc.?

Larry, thanks for the questions.

1. I don't know the purpose of this mass event, I can only speculate.

2. I agree with social distancing and businesses being closed, to prevent hospitals becoming overwhelmed with cases. If, however, the lockdown goes on for too long, the risk is of a situation like the great depression of the 1930's. If that happens, the "cure" will be worse than the disease and cause more suffering to more people. The danger is that mass hysteria could force governments to continue the loackdown for 18 months or longer. I admire the people taking part in demonstrations against the lockdown in parts of the USA.

[Sena]

Last week a retired police officer was handcuffed and arrested in front of his 8 year old daughter, because they were playing catch in a park. Not in my town, but up north in Broomfield. People are "ratting" on others and it's encouraged. Drones being employed.
https://www.realclearscience.com/blog/2020/02/18/why_do_new_disease_outbreaks_always_seem_to_start_in_china.html

Deb, I hope that sort of thing does not become widespread. The police seem to be quite relaxed in London, England, where I now live. I heard that in Sri Lanka more than 3000 people have been locked up without trial for violating the curfew.
Thanks for the interesting webpage about China.

[Sena]

"People are dying from other causes through lack of treatment. This was always going to happen and it will be a tidal wave the longer this goes on - with the deaths being recorded as 'Covid-19' in the death certificate scam."

https://www.davidicke.com/article/568781/ukcolumn-people-dying-causes-lack-treatment-always-going-happen-will-tidal-wave-longer-goes-deaths-recorded-covid-1

[jbseth]

Sena (and anybody who has not already answered these two questions):

1. From a Sethian perspective, what is/are the purpose(s) of this mass event?

2. To what extent do you agree or disagree with guidelines such as social distancing, many businesses closed, wearing masks in grocery stores, etc.?

Hi LarryH, Hi All,

Hey LarryH, I think this is an excellent post. Thanks for doing this.  

I'll respond to your second question in a separate post. However, for your first question, I thought that I'd try tuning-in to my inner self and see what kind of insights I pick up on this. In NOME, Seth tells us that all of our inner selves, all working together, all create all mass events.  He also tells us in NOPR that our conscious minds are intended to both look outside (physical reality) and inside (inner self). This inner self information is available to us and we can pick up on it, as long as we don't hold any beliefs that block us from its access. Thus, my thinking here is this. It should be possible to pick up intuitive insights from my inner self on why we created this mass event.


LarryH, I know you have a process that you use for picking up various insights. As I recall, I believe that it is somewhat based upon the techniques of remote viewing. Have you tried doing this yourself to see what you get on this? I'd be curious as to what you pick up on this.

For LarryH and all the rest of you. I purposely put my insights into a spoiler, so that you could read them when you want.

If you want to try picking up any insights, on your own, you may want to consider not looking at my spoiler until after you tune-in on yourself, see what you get and then post them here in a spoiler too.

Here are the insights that I picked up on this coronavirus mass event. I'm not claiming that these are all true or right.

Sorry but you must log in to view spoiler contents.

Again, I don't know whether any of this is right or not, but this is what I sensed, when I tuned-in on this issue.


- jbseth

[LarryH]

1. From a Sethian perspective, what is/are the purpose(s) of this mass event?

Thanks to all for your responses. jbseth, you put a lot of thought into your response with a focus on China. My focus is more on the U.S. and individual purposes. For the U.S., as I have stated elsewhere, I think the pandemic has exposed various social and political weaknesses and will reduce political resistance to expanded access to healthcare that is not dependent on employment as well as minimum wage being raised to closer to a living wage. Deficits have been highlighted among minorities and in Indian reservations. The work-from-home movement may continue to a greater extent after the pandemic is over. The environmental benefits that we have seen may reduce political resistance to legislation intended to improve the environment. On an individual level, people may continue with the many positives such as more people taking walks, more people getting to know their neighbors, more time to meditate, reflect, and appreciate.  Some will use the pandemic as the way to die, others will use it as a way to serve, a way to learn, a way to love.

[Deb]

There's a better place to put this, but since we're all getting notifications from this post, I'll add it here and later put it up in What's New.

There's a new Facebook-like website that was put together by the former web developer for Seth Network International. It's works the way Facebook does by having a feed and friending other members, but it's ONLY about Seth. I imagine no advertising and no shadow banning or interference from the FB thought police.   https://sethdirectory.com/ Anyone can join, leave comments on the Wall and be able to skip a lot of reading and writing that goes on in a discussion forum like Speaking of Seth.

For LarryH and all the rest of you. I purposely put my insights into a spoiler, so that you could read them when you want.

OK, here goes!

Hopefully there will be world-wide changes, yet every country will have their own lessons to learn from this. Like how Seth says every person who "participates" in a mass event still has their own reasons/purposes served.

Sorry but you must log in to view spoiler contents.

[LarryH]

Deb, an item in your spoiler triggered an additional thought on a related purpose of the virus: Since meat processing plants around the country seem to be petri dishes for spreading the virus and get shut down, we are likely to have meat shortages for awhile. This might cause people to consider vegan or vegetarian alternatives that they never considered before. They may be surprised to discover tasty alternatives and may reduce their consumption of meat long-term.

[Deb]

I had thought about adding what's going on with food right now, but felt I'd gotten negative enough about animals, but now that you mention it... Do you mean the US hog farm (Smithfield) that closed down one of their facilities because their employees were sick—they are are owned by China. They'd had a visit from some Chinese executives and bam, half the employees are sick before you know it.

I hadn't heard this about beef or hogs, but farmers are being asked to dump milk, destroy eggs and kill their chickens because restaurants, hotels, schools being shut down means food surpluses. Farmers are having to destroy millions of pounds of perishable produce too. Why they can't instead find a way to send this food to the needy is unbelievable.

This may cause some food shortages once we're back in business again, sort of a lag effect.

This might cause people to consider vegan or vegetarian alternatives that they never considered before. They may be surprised to discover tasty alternatives and may reduce their consumption of meat long-term.

Although it's kind of ironic that so many foodborne illnesses have come from fruits and vegetables such as lettuce, sprouts, melons, spinach and cabbage. Life comes with its risks. I try to buy local as much as I can.

[jbseth]

Sena (and anybody who has not already answered these two questions):

1. From a Sethian perspective, what is/are the purpose(s) of this mass event?

2. To what extent do you agree or disagree with guidelines such as social distancing, many businesses closed, wearing masks in grocery stores, etc.?

Hi LarryH,

In answer to question 2, I believe in what Seth tells us regarding the power of "belief" and the issues having to do with the various beliefs that we hold.  I also believe in what Seth says in NOPR, Ch5, S624. What he has to say in this specific session, tends to influence my beliefs regarding health and other things like how we actually "catch" a cold, the flu, or some other virus, and how we transmit them.


I don't believe in CV19. That is, I don't believe that I'll get CV19.

Why? Because I "believe" that I'm healthy and I "believe" that if I don't either dwell on or worry about getting CV19, then I won't draw it to me through my beliefs.  Furthermore, I also "believe" that my body consciousness has the ability to correct and heal any imbalances within me.  Finally, as part of this process I have to make sure that I don't consciously interfere with my body consciousness and its abilities to take care of me, via any personal beliefs that I may have that could interfere with this process.

I believe that if I do this, and I do "believe" that I both can and will, then I'll be OK and won't get CV19.

Sorry but you must log in to view spoiler contents.

However, that being said, I also recognize that many other people in our society do have a strong belief in the medical establishment, doctors, vaccines, the need to scrub your hands for 20 seconds, the need for masks, social distancing, etc.

In recognition of these people and their beliefs, to not participate in such activities as social distancing, the wearing of masks, etc., is not only very thoughtless and uncompassionate, but its also incredibly dangerous and risky behavior.

Thus, in our neighborhood, when my wife and I are out walking around, and when we talk to our neighbors, we practice social distancing. I also wear a mask, when I go to the grocery store for the same reason. Even though I truly don't believe that this needs to be done.

So yes, I'm OK with the guidelines.

- jbseth

[Sena]

Seth readers beware, they are going to try to force the Covid 19 vaccine on us:

"Gates-owned WHO warns there's no evidence of coronavirus immunity (of course because they want to use that as an excuse to vaccinate EVERYONE with the Gates vaccine)."
"'There is currently no evidence that people who have recovered from COVID-19 are protected from a second infection, the World Health Organization warned Saturday as the worldwide death toll topped 200,000."

https://www.davidicke.com/article/568939/gates-owned-warns-theres-no-evidence-coronavirus-immunity-course-want-use-excuse-vaccinate-everyone-gates-vaccine

"It (WHO) also advised against the use of so-called "immunity passports," which have been mooted in some countries as a way to enable people to travel or return to work on the assumption that they are immune to the virus."

https://tinyurl.com/y7fj42lp

[LarryH]

Gates does not "own" WHO. And it's not just Gates saying that they don't know if those who have recovered are protected from a second infection. It occurs to me that if they are not protected, then a vaccine based on the antibodies would not work. There may have been cases of reinfection (though this may have been due to false positives and/or false negatives in the infected/not infected/infected testing). Finally, Gates is not the only one funding vaccine research, so it is unlikely to be a Gates vaccine anyway. And if it is a Gates vaccine, is there any evidence that he would make money off of it (like he needs it), or is his foundation just funding the research? I'm not arguing on behalf of a potential vaccine, just questioning some of the allegations and assumptions.

[LarryH]

Another positive thing that will happen is that many businesses will spread their employees out more. I spent most of my career working in cubicles. Over time, the square footage of my spaces got smaller, and the walls got lower. Each step made it harder for me to do my job. Before I retired, the company I worked for was moving in the direction of shared desks and eliminating cubicle walls. I would have hated that. But now, there is a reason to move back in the other direction. Floor space will become available if employees are allowed the option of working at home. Staggered work weeks, job sharing, and continued use of virtual meetings would also contribute to this potential. In businesses such as meat processing plants, where workers are in very close proximity, they may have to slow down the process and add shifts to allow safer spacing or install shields between workers.

[Sena]

Gates does not "own" WHO.

Gates has donated $ 1,535.1million to W.H.O.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_%26_Melinda_Gates_Foundation

[LarryH]

Gates has donated $ 1,535.1million to W.H.O.

That does not equate to "owning" WHO. It was a donation. Others have donated to WHO, and they also do not "own" WHO. I think a foundation donating to the World Health Organization during a worldwide pandemic is a good thing.

[Deb]

And it's not just Gates saying that they don't know if those who have recovered are protected from a second infection. It occurs to me that if they are not protected, then a vaccine based on the antibodies would not work. There may have been cases of reinfection (though this may have been due to false positives and/or false negatives in the infected/not infected/infected testing).

Yes, good point. Also, we have flu vaccines tailor-made every year but the flu mutates and so the vaccine is probably outdated by the time it's available to the public. I'm not sure if this virus also mutates, I don't see why it wouldn't. They've been saying there's a Euro version and Chinese version, I need to look into that. Also if it comes to mandatory vaccines, if someone already has the antibodies hopefully they will not be forced to vaccinate.

I'd really like to know what's going on with vaccines.

This morning I was reading a Weston Price newsletter (Winter 2019) and came across a cameo article on the measles outbreak in New York City last April. I barely even remember this, but Mayor de Blasio declared a state of emergency and ordered every unvaccinated person six months or older in areas in Brooklyn to obtain a measles vaccine within 48 hours or face a possible $1000 fine.

Of the 1200 cases of measles reported in 31 US states in 2019, about 75% were in NY state. No deaths reported.

It then contrasts that with: Since 1990 VAERS has received reports of more than 89,000 MMR vaccine reactions including 445 MMR-related deaths. In Merck's pre-licensure (!) studies, 40% of vaccine recipients suffered GI and 55% respiratory illnesses within 42 days. The package insert lists 60+ adverse reactions including permanent brain damage! https://www.fda.gov/media/75191/download See pages 6-8. One of the reactions is diabetes mellitus, so I guess my feeling that my son's diabetes could have been caused by a vaccine was not off base. I wish I'd seen this back in 1995.

Another article starts off:

"Industry-funded politicians and others who benefit from vaccine sales worked hard in 2019 to stifle opposing viewpoints and bury scientific studies that contradict official narrative that all vaccines are "safe and effective" for everyone. Social media platforms, search engines and stores readily removed vaccine-related content running counter to this official narrative."

Adam Schiff wrote to Bezos requesting removal of all anti-vaccine content, such as documentaries, from Amazon. Bezos complied. Letters also went to the CEOs of Facebook and Google, Etsy, GoFundMe, Instagram, Mailchimp, Twitter, YouTube, Pinterest and Wikipedia. All complied.

How did we get here? What's going on? If someone does come up with a corona vaccine, are we going to have access to the package insert?

Things sure have changed since my childhood, when some kid had measles and the neighborhood would have a measles party so their kids could get it over with.

Another positive thing that will happen is that many businesses will spread their employees out more.

What will help with that is many businesses (and the employees) will realize that they it is possible to work from home. At least the self-motivated folk.

I also wear a mask, when I go to the grocery store for the same reason.

I just started doing that. Very uncomfortable, but I spend less time in the store because of it, which is not a bad thing.

[Sena]

"Industry-funded politicians and others who benefit from vaccine sales worked hard in 2019 to stifle opposing viewpoints and bury scientific studies that contradict official narrative that all vaccines are "safe and effective" for everyone. Social media platforms, search engines and stores readily removed vaccine-related content running counter to this official narrative."

Deb, I tried searching for "natural immunity or vaccines", and got a flood of pro-vaccine articles. Google is not going to contradict the medical/pharmaceutical establishment.
If WHO is so sure that getting one attack of Covid 19 does not give immunity, how will the vaccine manufactures prove that their vaccine gives more immunity than an attack of the illness? It could take 3 years for a vaccine to be proved to be that effective. New Zealand now claims to be free of Covid 19, without a vaccine.

[T.M.]

Hi All,

Hi Sena,

" Google is not going to contradict the medical/pharmaceutical establishment."
Or any other officially established narrative. Google is simply useless for any unbiased research endeavor. Duck duck Go isn't much better.

My own point of view, vaccine manufacturers make a bundle from their products. If they get away with making any of their products mandatory, the sky is the limit on profit. Not to mention that due to the highly questionable ingredients in the vaccines, they cause life long illnesses in people, which is a never ending profit model for the medical communities and big pharmacy.

In the U.S. the manufacturers lobbied congress and have gotten laws passed that makes them exempt from responsibility and lawsuits against injuries and illnesses from their products.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/supreme-court-vaccine-ruling-parents-cant-sue-drug-makers-for-kids-health-problems/

42 U.S. Code § 300aa–22.Standards of responsibility
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/300aa-22

[LarryH]

New Zealand now claims to be free of Covid 19, without a vaccine.

As of today, New Zealand has 325 active cases, 1,118 recovered cases, and 18 deaths. They appear to have slowed the new cases to a trickle, a few a day. Clearly, considering how remote the country is, its low population, and its enlightened leadership, it was able to arrest the spread very successfully. New Zealand had one of the highest per capita testing rates in the world.

[Deb]

In the U.S. the manufacturers lobbied congress and have gotten laws passed that makes them exempt from responsibility and lawsuits against injuries and illnesses from their products.

That's disgusting. Just the fact that we have a law like that says a lot. I thought the choice of language "presumed" was odd. Presumed? No one is checking that?

"a vaccine shall be presumed to be accompanied by proper directions and warnings if the vaccine manufacturer shows that it complied in all material respects with all requirements"

I did a little looking back today to my son's vaccinations as a child. I remember him having a strong reaction to his first set, fever, rash, a lot of crying from feeling miserable. In order for kids to go to school, their vaccines have to be up to date. I had to get his MMR booster before he started kindergarten in August of 2000, age 5. He was diagnosed with Type 1 diabetes on May 8, 2001. Just a coincidence, I'm sure.

Just an idea of how many vaccines kids get by the age of 18:

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/schedules/hcp/imz/child-adolescent.html#birth-15

[jbseth]

Hi All,

In DEaVF1, Chapter 3, Session 891 was given on December 26, 1979. Just a few days before the world embarked upon a brand new decade, the 1980's. In this session, Seth talks about probabilities, mass probabilities and "Great Expectations".

I think that the message that Seth gave in this session, very much applies to us today as we sit here and discuss this coronavirus in April 2020.


In this session, in talking about great expectations, Set say the following: "The elements of the physical world that are unfortunate can be changed in the twinkling of an eye through great expectations."

Along with this, he also talks about power. Here he tells us, "The true power is in the imagination which dares to speculate upon that which is not yet (intently). The imagination, backed by great expectations, can bring about almost any reality within the range of probabilities. All of the possible versions of 1980 will happen."

Then, along with this, he also says:
"Do not personally give any more conscious consideration, either of you, to events that you do not want to happen. (Long pause.) Any such concentration, to whatever degree, ties you in with those probabilities, so concentrate upon what you want, and as far as public events are concerned, take it for granted that sometimes even men are wiser than they know".


- jbseth

[Deb]

https://www.businessinsider.com/new-zealand-coronavirus-community-spread-ended-most-restrictions-stay-2020-4

I was curious about New Zealand with the conflicting information, and there are several articles out there basically saying that New Zealand is easing its lockdown saying it "eliminated community transmission of the coronavirus." Total number of active cases has been in decline since April 9. 309 active right now.

"This brings the country's cumulative total to 1,122 confirmed cases, but Bloomfield added that "probable" cases — where testing has not yet confirmed a likely infection — would bring that total to 1,469. Nineteen people have died of the virus in New Zealand so far."

I sincerely wish them luck, the world is watching.

On the same page I saw this: "The world's largest vaccine maker is mass-producing a COVID-19 vaccine developed by the University of Oxford without knowing whether it works."  They're already testing it on volunteers. https://www.businessinsider.com/india-serum-institute-millions-oxford-university-vaccine-before-approval-2020-4?r=US&IR=T

I wish them luck too. 

[Sena]

My own point of view, vaccine manufacturers make a bundle from their products. If they get away with making any of their products mandatory, the sky is the limit on profit. Not to mention that due to the highly questionable ingredients in the vaccines, they cause life long illnesses in people, which is a never ending profit model for the medical communities and big pharmacy.

T.M., I can imagine a situation like this: In 3 years billions of people have been given the vaccine. In 4 years there is a considerably increased incidence of cancer. Conclusion - Cancer is due to an old infection with Covid 19 (before getting the vaccine). They are already saying Covid 19 is causing young people to have strokes. Why can't it cause cancer?

[LarryH]

We are not going to stop people from working on a vaccine. How about we visualize that the vaccine will have minimal side effects and maybe at least reduce the symptoms if one gets the virus? I'm not promoting a vaccine, as that is up to each person to decide when the time comes. We get what we concentrate upon. I heard that somewhere. 

[Deb]

How about we visualize that the vaccine will have minimal side effects and maybe at least reduce the symptoms if one gets the virus?

I'm visualizing we won't need one.

[Sena]

So far I have not ordered anthing from Amazon since the lockdown started, but may soon have to do so. Good old Bezos. "Jeff Bezos's Net Worth Has Increased by $24 Billion During the alleged 'Covid-19 Pandemic'":

https://www.davidicke.com/article/569229/jeff-bezoss-net-worth-increased-24-billion-covid-19-pandemic

[LarryH]

Elsewhere here in an unrelated thread, Sena stated, "...lockdowns are useless. A lockdown may postpone death by a few months, but the death decision will eventually prevail." I understand that this is coming from Sena's understanding of the Seth material, and I would not argue that the statement is not "Sethian". However, I struggle with this idea.

First, regarding these social guidelines intended to reduce the spread of the virus, I think it is still useful to follow them so that, for starters:

-We minimize trauma to the overworked healthcare workers
-We lose loved ones later rather than sooner (and maybe get to say goodbye in person)
-We control the spread so that we can more quickly open up the economy

Second, it implies that we have no personal responsibility in the safety of others, and various safety precautions common in society are useless. Following is a list of such precautions:

-child-proof caps on poisons and medicine bottles
-baby gates
-fences around swimming pools
-seat belts in cars

If I were to allow a young child to be in a swimming pool unsupervised and that child drowns, I would not say, "Oh well, not my fault, he 'chose' to die." Obviously, from a Sethian viewpoint, that would seem to be true. But I would still feel guilty. So if anybody would like to help me out with this Seth concept, please chime in.