Seth: "The murders are symptoms"

[Deb]

I remember when Robert Kennedy was shot—exactly where I was and what I was doing. Coming home from school when JFK was shot, my mother ironing in front of the TV and crying. The 60s were nuts, so many extremes and assassinations, one after another. Rioting. And I also clearly remember wondering what the hell was going on in this country. Like I am now. Welcome back to the 60s.

"Without these murders the nation would not know what was wrong with itself. The murders are symptoms, but without symptoms the patient will not realize that anything is wrong with the inner self."

Inspired by a quote @pyromancy put up a few days ago, a connection of the recent riots with the event precipitating the Arab Spring, I am putting up here "most" of Session 414. I'd not read it before, haven't gotten that far in The Early Sessions although I have the book. Part Seth search engine result, part me typing in the skipped paragraphs, I think you'll be amazed at how Seth explains the murders of JFK, MLK and RFK, some surprising psychic hits from Seth, and how this feels so related to what's going on in parts of the world today. I'm putting it in a spoiler because not only is it very long, but it's TOO long to share with the general public and not violate the fair use copyright exemption. So, visible to members only. You'll probably want to copy & paste the text into Word so you can read it at your leisure. Or open the spoiler, right click and "Save As" the page to your computer. You should be able to read the spoiler offline, depending on your browser.

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[T.M.]

Hi All,

Hi Deb,

Thank You for putting this together!!

[jbseth]

Hi All,

FYI,

There is a typo in TES8, Session 414. In the title of this session, the year is given as 1969. This is a typo; it should have said 1968.

In TES8, Session 413, was given on May 29, 1968, and Session 415, was given on June 10, 1968.

I know that Seth talks about simultaneous time, but I don't think that this is what was going on here.

-jbseth

[jbseth]

Note from Deb:
Could this have been Ted Kennedy's auto accident resulting in the death of Mary Jo Kopechne on July 19, 1969, 30 days after this session? Or John Kennedy Jr.'s fatal plane crash July 16, 1999? The dates would be interesting for a numerologist.

Hi Deb,

In Session 414, Seth said, "The third is frightened. He will remain in a passive capacity, relatively."

Immediately after reading this, I thought about Ted Kennedy and this Chappaquiddick incident with Mary Jo Kopechne. The incident that occurred in July of 1969. I've always believed that this Chappaquiddick incident was one of the main reasons why Ted never ran for President. If he ran, then he'd have to explain what happened during this incident.

Some part of me has always always wondered, if perhaps he became involved in this incident, in order to keep himself from running for President or perhaps to say face with his father, Joe, about why he, Ted, couldn't or wouldn't run for president.



As I understand it, Joe Kennedy, the father, was a very aggressive individual and was very determined that "his son" would be President. Also, as I understand it, the father, Joe, wanted his first son, Joe Jr. to fill that role.  Unfortunately, Joe Jr. was killed in WW2. Thus, after Joe Jr. died, I suspect that the father put a lot of pressure on John, to fulfill this role.

Seth says that the elder brother (Joe Jr.) "refused the role." I've also wondered if this was the reason why Joe Jr., died in WW2? Because Joe Jr. didn't want to take on that role?


- jbseth

[Sena]

As I understand it, Joe Kennedy, the father, was a very aggressive individual and was very determined that "his son" would be President.

jbseth, I have read that the father was a pacifist in the run-up to WWII, may even have secretly supported Nazism. It is all the more creditable that the son became a great president.

[jbseth]

Hi Sena,

I've heard the Joe Kennedy was a bootlegger (of alcohol) during the "Prohibition" period.

I've also heard that prior to WW2, there were some people here in the US, who favored Nazi Germany and favored isolationism.  Here isolationism being that they didn't want to be involved in another war. I don't know whether Joe Kennedy was one of these, but Joe Jr. and John were definitely involved in WW2.

This "isolationism" isn't necessarily "pacifism" such as what some Buddhists practice, where they don't believe in killing people or anything.   

-jbseth

[Deb]

There is a typo in TES8, Session 414. In the title of this session, the year is given as 1969. This is a typo; it should have said 1968.

Wow, I was too busy typing away to notice that, I haven't read the book yet. It's incorrect in the book, and also the Seth search engine, so I didn't give it a thought. I've corrected it in my first post. Thanks for pointing that out. That also means that Ted's accident was 13 months after Bobby's death.

I didn't know anything about Joe Jr., found this in the Wiki:

"Joe Sr. had aspirations for Joe Jr. to become president.[1] Joe Jr. was a delegate to the 1940 Democratic National Convention and planned to run for a seat in the United States House of Representatives after his military service as the first stepping stone on the path to the White House.[1] His death while participating in a top-secret mission in 1944 caused Joe Sr. to transfer his aspirations to his next-oldest son, John F. Kennedy.[1] John Kennedy followed the path first planned for Joe Jr., advancing from the US House to the United States Senate to the presidency.[1]"

It is interesting to speculate on the reason behind Ted's manifesting the accident, and Joe Jr. dying during the war. And I wonder if Seth said any more about this. I just found out recently that Mary Dillman has a bunch of unpublished sessions, enough she thought to make two more books. Who knows what could be in them... Laurel also has, somewhere, the sessions from Bob Monroe's meetings with Seth.

[jbseth]

Hi Deb, Hi All,

I was curious, as to whether Seth said anything about the assassination of Martin Luther King, shortly after that event occurred (on April 4, 1968). From what I can tell, it doesn't appear that he did.

In TES8, there's a session, Session 404 dated April 8, 1968. This session, was for the ESP class, but I didn't see anything in it, that's mention this event. 

In the TPS1, there is a sessions on Feb 14, 1968 and then the next one is on Jan. 20, 1969.

-jbseth

[Deb]

As far as I can tell, King is only mentioned in Session 414 and the one you mentioned in TECS1.

The TECS session begins with Rob's note (guessing M.D. is Mary Dillman):

"(M.D. believes the class was April 1, 1969 based on two subjects mentioned in the class: Easter was on April 6 and the anniversary of Martin Luther King's assassination was April 4.)"

It's kind of odd how, in that session, Seth suddenly mentions Dr. King at the end. I skimmed through the session, did not see any questions specifically about King. I recall that Rob did not attend or take notes at the ESP classes, or at least not in the beginning. So whoever was taking notes that evening may have not been very thorough. On page 128 there's a note: "(Group discussed the concept of Christ.)" No details. And on the previous page, Florence mentioned "Watching the turmoil on television today, just one spark could have set off an explosion that would rock this country,..." I wonder what that was about? The only thing I came up with was a sit-in by SDS "radical youth group" members at Queens College where several students were arrested for criminal trespass. That wouldn't go over well today.

Looking at Mary's index of all the sessions, there's a 10 day gap in sessions between Session 404 (4/8/68) and Session 405 (4/18/68). Since there's still a bunch of unpublished sessions, or unpublished parts of some published sessions, there may be something in them about King. JFK was mentioned fairly often, it was a tremendous shock to the country to lose a beloved president. RFK a shock too, amplified by what had happened to JFK. Then MLK... the trend is what prompted Session 414, where Seth tied it all together. Do you remember this song? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham,_Martin_and_John

Mary's sessions list PDF is here.

[jbseth]

Do you remember this song?

Hi Deb, Hi All,

I do.

However, I was surprised to see from the Wikipedia site, that it was sung by "Dion".

I don't think I knew (or maybe I just forgot) that he was the singer.

- jbseth

[jbseth]

Hi All,

In this session, Seth seems to be saying that a nation, can and does react to emotional situations, very much like an individual. Furthermore, he also seems to be saying that a nation can also be caught off guard, just like and individual, and not recognize it's illnesses.

The assassination of the Kennedys and Martin Luther King really shook our country in the 1960's. One issue here seems to be that these men were recognized at great leaders who stood up for and represented some of this countries ideals. Our founding fathers did set some wonderful ideals for us. Ideals such as:


The Declaration of Independence:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

The Preamble of the Constitution of the United States:
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

The First Amendment of the Constitution of the United States:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


When, as a nation, we establish a set of ideals, and then when we fail to live up to them, as a nation, this creates problems, illnesses, for our country.

When, as a nation, our leaders, who stand for these ideals, are assassinated, we, as a nation, have a serious problem, a serious national illness.  This, is what these leaders, in dying for their cause, pointed out to us.


"I think", that what happened in the 1960's to these leaders and what's going on today in our world, in some ways are both similar and different.

In today's world, we don't seem to be assassinating those leaders who represent our ideals. In fact, it could be reasonably argued, that we don't seem to have many of these types of leaders today, but that's a discussion for another topic.



Today, we still have a situation where our nation has many illnesses. Furthermore, many of these illnesses occur as a result of us not living up to our ideals. As a result of this, we also have individuals who give of themselves, and some, even of their lives, to point these illnesses out to us. Just like the Kennedys and Martin Luther King.

We have many people who have tried to point out to us that we have a potential problem with the environment and the earth, and many of these people are verbally attacked and abused because as a nation some of us don't want to hear this.

We have many people who have given their lives, such as school children, students and teachers who died in schools, many who died in theaters, and many who died in nightclubs, because as a nation some of us have a problem with mental health, violence and weapons.

We have many women who have been assaulted, for doing nothing more than trying to get or maintain a job, because, as a nation, some of us have a problem with sexuality and sexual equality.

We have many people of various sexual and gender orientation who have been assaulted and killed for doing nothing more than living their lives, because as a nation, some of us have a problem with sexuality and gender orientation.

We have many people of many different cultures and races who have been and continue to be attacked, assaulted and killed, just because they're different because as a nation, some of us have a problem with racism and bigotry.

I believe that we, as a nation, keep seeing and hearing about all of these issues, because we, as a nation, keep failing to live up to our ideals.



Finally, I'm not trying to say here that we are a horrible nation. I don't believe that we are. On the other hand, we do have problems however and we certainly can benefit by addressing them.  At least we don't suppress this information or attempt to blind ourselves to them, which some nations seem to do and which I believe would be an even worse situation.

I also find it interesting that this topic came up, at the time of year just prior to July 4, our nations independence day.


-jbseth

[Deb]

Weird, I clicked on the link I provided to the song and the page came up mostly gibberish, odd characters. It wasn't doing that yesterday. There is still some English. Anyway, I remember hearing the song a lot back in the day, I didn't really know who Dion was. I went to his Wiki page and that's mostly in gibberish too. Weird. Back to the AM&J page: I saw at the bottom of the page that the song has been recorded by 10 different artists! One of them was Moms Mabley who I used to LOVE to watch on the talk TV shows, she was so daringly irreverent for the time. I'll add a link to her singing the song, she was an amazing performer. Funny to see them smoking on the show. I guess some things have changed. I think Jane smoked the whole time she was in the hospital. Amazing.

Furthermore, he also seems to be saying that a nation can also be caught off guard, just like and individual, and not recognize it's illnesses.

I thought Seth's comparing social unrest to illness was brilliant—as above, so below. So clear. And if we on the individual level have symptoms of illness and don't fully deal with the cause, problems will continue to crop up. Which answered my question about why things like the violence, rioting and protests have cropped up regularly during my lifetime. They are symptoms of an inner national problem. "The struggle results in strength." We have made progress. We still have more to come. That's one of the reasons we're "here."

We do have a lot of problems here in the US, not to say we're alone, it seems this is a world of social injustices. "Such murders would have been taken for granted in some other nations." We have our problems, we DO have ideals and we have not been living up to them. Or at least, not everyone is on board. I thought what Seth said about strength was encouraging: "[Strength]... does come when the people within a nation are making an honest effort to bring about in physical reality the materialization of their individual and mass ideals." I think that's what's going on here.

[jbseth]

Hi Deb, Hi All,

Wow, that was certainly a trip down memory lane. Merv looks so young then, now. 

I always thought that Moms Mabley was funny.

Yeah, people smoking on a talk show. I almost forgot that, that use to be the norm.

My oldest sister and my oldest brother, were both born in the early to mid-1940's and when they were teenagers in the early 1960's, they listened to the Rock and Roll radio stations at home, when I was growing up. I can remember my sister Pat, listening to all the famous singers like Dion, Bobby Vinton, the Everly Brothers, the Righteous Brothers, Elvis Presley, Chubby Checker, etc... several years before the Beatles and the British invasion. 

Dion sang some popular songs in the early 60's like "Runaround Sue" and "The Wanderer".

-jbseth