Seth on pandemic 'deaths of protest'

[Kyle]

Maybe I give people too much credit, but I try to see those who seem to be choosing to DIE (because they don't like the government?) as not simply too stupid to live. Are we witnessing mass protests in which individual deaths are intended to "make a statement"? What would Seth say about all this seemingly mindless insanity? Here is an excerpt from The Nature of Mass Events that addresses this question:

" Now: To a certain extent (underlined), epidemics are the result of a mass suicide phenomenon on the parts of those involved. Biological, sociological, or even economic factors may be involved, in that for a variety of reasons, and at different levels, whole groups of individuals want to die at any given time — but in such a way that their individual deaths amount to a mass statement.

On one level the deaths are a protest against the time in which they occur. Those involved have private reasons, however. The reasons, of course, vary from one individual to another, yet all involved "want their death to serve a purpose" beyond private concerns. Partially, then, such deaths are meant to make the survivors question the conditions (dash) — for unconsciously the species well knows there are reasons for such mass deaths that go beyond accepted beliefs."
—NoME Chapter 1: Session 802, April 25, 1977

Is this what we are now witnessing? I hope this isn't too inflammatory a topic, because I'm trying to get beyond the warlike mentality. I'm really at a loss to say what kind of statement or purpose these deaths might serve.

[Sena]

Is this what we are now witnessing? I hope this isn't too inflammatory a topic, because I'm trying to get beyond the warlike mentality. I'm really at a loss to say what kind of statement or purpose these deaths might serve.

Kyle, an uncle of mine died in April 2020, at the age of 93. He had been in a Care Home for 4years. He had been investigating spiritual ideas from the age of about 70. He was a kind-hearted man who was well liked by all those he came into contact with. It is likely that he died of Covid, although testing was not widely done in the UK at that time. I was discouraged from attending his funeral because of Covid precautions. It seems to me likely that he chose to die of Covid because the time was right for him to leave this existence. I don't think there was "protest" involved in this instance.

[Kyle]

Sena, I'm sorry for the loss of your uncle. He certainly doesn't belong in the category of "deaths of protest". I don't know about the UK, but in the USA this is an all-too-well-known phenomenon that is crippling our health care system.

[LarryH]

Deaths before vaccines were available may not be able to be lumped as easily into categories of why they "chose" to die. We know though that these days, the vast majority of those who are dying or getting seriously ill are the unvaccinated. Among those, the largest group might be those who are eligible but have chosen not to be vaccinated. Discounting those whose choice was for religious reasons or who waited for the FDA's full approval, we are down to those whose choice was for reasons of "personal freedom" and an opportunity to vent about that. These tend to be people who are angry with society and are vulnerable to various conspiracy theories and social media falsehoods. Like those who stormed the Capitol in January, they are basically dissatisfied with their lives and looking for some way to lash out and blame someone else for their pathetic lives and also to find a savior that they can trust, whether that is horse dewormer or someone talking about Jewish space lasers. Sorry about touching on politics, but unless someone is offended by me bringing up horse dewormer or Jewish space lasers, I can't help you. Anyway, many of them are now filling our ICUs and choosing to pass on, perhaps because they simply cannot make sense of the world anymore when their deeply held beliefs are constantly being challenged by reality. My opinion, fwiw.

[Deb]

Before I get started here, since a few of you are following this topic, I wanted to let you know that I'm in the process of safely testing the new major software update for the forum. Simple Machines is using the new version on their own website, which tells me they got the majority of the kinks out of it. So if you come here in the next few days and see this site in Maintenance Mode, that's what's going on.

So, son of a gun, my neighbor tested positive for covid on Sunday. He's been pretty sick, but his doctor prescribed monoclonal antibodies and horse wormer, er, rather, an ivermecton "cocktail" similar to what Joe Rogan probably had. No, he did not go to a vet. Yes, I did use the horse version as a wormer when I had a horse.

My neighbor was vaccinated, but the doctor said the vaccines are not designed to deal with the new variants. I'm no doctor, just reporting what I heard.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7539925/ - Ivermectin: an award-winning drug with expected antiviral activity against COVID-19
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043740/ - Ivermectin, 'Wonder drug' from Japan: the human use perspective

"The 2015 Nobel Prize in Physiology and Medicine was awarded to William C. Campbell and Satoshi Ömura for their discoveries leading to ivermectin [1]. In addition to its extraordinary efficacy against parasitic diseases, ivermectin continues to offer new clinical applications due to its ability to be repurposed to treat new classes of diseases. Beyond its invaluable therapeutic role in onchocerciasis and strongyloidiasis, an increasing body of evidence points to the potential of ivermectin as an antiviral agent."

So, don't take what the news says too seriously.

We've talked a lot here about covid, the "whys" behind it. Seth, the quote at the top, said "To a certain extent (underlined), epidemics are a result of a mass suicide..." etc. Personally I can't figure out what sociological or economic woes would be solved by an epidemic like this one. It could be meant as a warning to ourselves to stop trying to find faster and more efficient weapons, or even messing with things we shouldn't. Seth also said people who are ready to die will use something like this to have an "acceptable" out from life.

While I'm not a conspiracy theorist, I find it a remarkable coincidence that the pandemic originated in a city that had TWO labs studying and experimenting with bat coronaviruses. The regular Wuhan lab has a biolab safety rating of level 4 ("highly dangerous and exotic microbes. Infections caused by these types of microbes are frequently fatal"). The other is level 3 (Wuhan University Center for Animal Experiment ) which in my mind should not have been experimenting with infecting genetically humanized mice with bat coronaviruses. That makes it even harder for me to swallow that this all started because someone brought a bat home for dinner from a wet market.

Bioterror is nothing new, although I'm not saying the research was specifically for that purpose because I have no idea. The world has been, I think, cautious with atomic weapons since WWII. The Holocaust was also a big lesson for the world. My thought is this could be another warning for us to wise up. China is not the only country that has been studying things like this. We all need to learn to respect life, all consciousness, or we're going to have to start all over again. According to Seth, it wouldn't be the first time.

"There have been various periods that were peaceful, but there was no equality. There have been countless other civilizations that have destroyed themselves in the planet's past, and before this when another planet was approximately in earth's position. There were however civilizations that endured, that outlasted their planet, and went elsewhere."
—TES9 Session 452 December 2, 1968

Anyway, my two cents worth.

[LarryH]

Since I brought up the horse dewormer, I should clarify that many of these people were not using it in a safe manner and had very adverse reactions. Some are using it as a preventative or self-medicating when they suspect that they have the virus. There may very well be safe methods under a doctor's supervision that could help treat the virus. The news simply reports what doctors are telling them. With the dewormer being new and rare as a Covid-19 treatment, there is likely not much statistical evidence as to its effectiveness and safety when used under medical supervision. That many choose to trust this more than a fully-FDA-approved highly effective vaccine because the vaccine is really a way for the "deep state" to kill us all or at least track our locations or make us sterile indicates severe paranoia and fear.

This really happened:
Doctor to Covid patient in an ICU: "If you recover, will you get the vaccine?"
Patient: "No, I don't want an experimental drug in my body."
Doctor: "What we are treating you with right now is an experimental drug."

[LarryH]

My neighbor was vaccinated, but the doctor said the vaccines are not designed to deal with the new variants. I'm no doctor, just reporting what I heard.

That doctor is in the minority on that. All indications are that the vaccines are still highly effective against the Delta variant for reducing the chances of death or hospitalization. The unvaccinated are 11 times more likely to die from Covid than the vaccinated. The vaccines were not "designed" to deal with variants that did not exist at the time, but at least with Delta, they work almost as well.

[Sena]

While I'm not a conspiracy theorist, I find it a remarkable coincidence that the pandemic originated in a city that had TWO labs studying and experimenting with bat coronaviruses.

Deb, since the Covid pandemic, the Chinese economy has been booming and outdoing most other big economies.

https://indianexpress.com/article/business/world-market/a-year-after-covid-began-chinas-economy-is-beating-world-7147278/

China's economic ascent is accelerating barely a year after its first coronavirus lockdowns, as its success in controlling Covid-19 allows it to boost its share of global trade and investment.

The world's second-largest economy is set on Monday to report gross domestic product increased 2.1% in 2020, the only major economy to have avoided a contraction, according to a Bloomberg survey of economists.

That should ensure its share of the world economy rose at the fastest pace this century.

[Kyle]

My neighbor was vaccinated, but the doctor said the vaccines are not designed to deal with the new variants. I'm no doctor, just reporting what I heard.

That doctor is in the minority on that. All indications are that the vaccines are still highly effective against the Delta variant for reducing the chances of death or hospitalization. The unvaccinated are 11 times more likely to die from Covid than the vaccinated. The vaccines were not "designed" to deal with variants that did not exist at the time, but at least with Delta, they work almost as well.

Thank you, LarryH. This situation is not really one that's open to lots of interpretations. The unvaccinated are 11 times more likely to die from Covid than the vaccinated. Eleven times. This is the latest from the CDC. It is not some fantasy number that someone just made up and then pretends it's the gospel truth. And you don't have to be a biostatistician or an epidemiologist to understand the import of this number. At least, one would hope not. Of course, if one thinks the CDC is a hostile foreign power, then all bets are off.

[Deb]

Deb, since the Covid pandemic, the Chinese economy has been booming and outdoing most other big economies.

Wow. While covid has crushed a lot of people and businesses, it's amazing that China has instead grown financially. There have been some other businesses that have also done so, either by necessity of their services, or ingenuity. A very strange experience for me, and something to contemplate.

[usmaak]

https://www.sorryantivaxxer.com

If you haven't been there, this person is basically collecting stories about those who are not vaccinated and have died of COVID.  It sounds morbid and it is.  The comments after each post are brutal to the point of the owner of the site having to tell people to tone it down.  Yet I find the site to be interesting.  It's like a window into the mindset of the antivax community.  One would think that seeing all of these completely unnecessary deaths might changes some minds, but it really doesn't seem to.  They're still dropping.  They're still refusing to take the vaccine.

There's a lot of things that they believe 100% that I find absolutely ridiculous.  But they believe them and to them, thinking the vaccine is anything other than a danger to mankind is just as absolutely ridiculous.

There's a lot of frustration in the comments about the unnecessary nature of the deaths and why won't these people just listen.  I read a comment on one of the posts that I think explains it.  The comment said that there are basically two Americas now - the left and the right.  And they are 100 percent separated.  The left has a set of beliefs and the right has another set of beliefs.  And because of how the media works these days, it is virtually impossible for one side to see what the other side sees.  What we see on Facebook is curated based on what we search on and what we click.  Aside from a few completely unbiased sources, the media is biased to swing one way or the other.  Everything that the anti-vaxxers read and see and hear is telling them that vaccines are dangerous, masks keep in carbon dioxide, and everything about this is a violation of our freedoms.  They do not see anything that tells them different and if they do, they've been conditioned to see it as a ridiculous fabrication.  And it goes the other way too.

Of course some information leaks across the line and people can change their minds.  But we are controlled and conditioned by what we read, what we see, and who we associate with.  The idea that COVID is fake or something that was created by the world to keep trump from being reelected is absolutely ludicrous but to those that believe it, it is THE TRUTH.  To them, COVID is a convenient thing to control the population and take away rights.

I think it's ridiculous and  nobody's going to ever change my mind about it.  They see it as the truth, and nobody's going to change their minds either.

I'm sorry if this crossed into politics.  It wasn't my intention.  I just wanted to explain a realistic theory that I read for how this divide has become so strong.  I for one am very against politics being a thing on this forum.  If want to talk politics, there are about a zillion other places to do it.  I'm very grateful that this isn't one of them.

[Sena]

If you haven't been there, this person is basically collecting stories about those who are not vaccinated and have died of COVID.  It sounds morbid and it is.

usmaak, if 90% of the world's population believe that Covid 19 is nasty, and that the vaccines work well against it, Covid 19 WILL be nasty, and vaccines will work well against it. I am not an anti-vaxxer at present; I have had both doses. It is difficult to isolate oneself from a Mass Event. The population of Earth need to nullify the belief that there are more nasty viruses to come. More people need to read Seth. If even 10% of the population had read Seth, Covid 19 may not have happened.

Scientists need to come up with a vaccine that will protect against ALL viruses, the Killemall vaccine.

[usmaak]

If you haven't been there, this person is basically collecting stories about those who are not vaccinated and have died of COVID.  It sounds morbid and it is.

usmaak, if 90% of the world's population believe that Covid 19 is nasty, and that the vaccines work well against it, Covid 19 WILL be nasty, and vaccines will work well against it. I am not an anti-vaxxer at present; I have had both doses. It is difficult to isolate oneself from a Mass Event. The population of Earth need to nullify the belief that there are more nasty viruses to come. More people need to read Seth. If even 10% of the population had read Seth, Covid 19 may not have happened.

Scientists need to come up with a vaccine that will protect against ALL viruses, the Killemall vaccine.

Yeah.  Good luck with that.  The world can't agree on anything and it's just getting worse.   The mass belief in viruses is strong and ain't going anywhere.  I wish more people would read Seth as well, but it seems pretty fringe.  It's just easier for people to pick up and understand The Secret or one of the other millions of those books out there and get a watered down and incomplete version of it all.

If I'm reading Seth correctly, then at any time I can change my beliefs about COVID and the vaccines, regardless of the mass reality of it all.  I should be able to walk among those infected with it and not worry about it.  But I've never understood more than 5% of Seth.

And be careful with killemall.  There are a lot of beneficial viruses out there.

[Kyle]

One would think that seeing all of these completely unnecessary deaths might changes some minds, but it really doesn't seem to.  They're still dropping.  They're still refusing to take the vaccine.

One thing I can take away from this is that people are acting out of their pain as well as their beliefs. They aren't consciously choosing death, maybe, but they are almost automatically making the choices that lead to their death. This truly creeps me out, that people are reaching the point where they seemingly don't care if they live or die. And I haven't even looked at that site... not likely to, either.

[usmaak]

One would think that seeing all of these completely unnecessary deaths might changes some minds, but it really doesn't seem to.  They're still dropping.  They're still refusing to take the vaccine.

One thing I can take away from this is that people are acting out of their pain as well as their beliefs. They aren't consciously choosing death, maybe, but they are almost automatically making the choices that lead to their death. This truly creeps me out, that people are reaching the point where they seemingly don't care if they live or die. And I haven't even looked at that site... not likely to, either.

I don't know.  They genuinely believe everything they say and the 100% believe in the actions that lead to their deaths.  It's sad to see all of this wasted life.

[Sena]

If I'm reading Seth correctly, then at any time I can change my beliefs about COVID and the vaccines, regardless of the mass reality of it all.  I should be able to walk among those infected with it and not worry about it.

usmaak, Seth is very clear that the time of death is known. Anyone, even a Seth reader, might catch the Covid 19 virus and get some kind of illness, but they will not die unless it is the pre-arranged date and time of death:

"It seems, perhaps, easier to have no conscious idea of the year or time that death might occur. Unconsciously of course each man and woman knows, and yet hides the knowledge. The knowledge is usually hidden for many reasons, but the fact of death, personal death, is never forgotten. It seems obvious, but the full enjoyment of life would be impossible in the framework, now, of earthly reality without the knowledge of death." (from "The Nature of Personal Reality: Specific, Practical Techniques for Solving Everyday Problems and Enriching the Life You Know (A Seth Book)" by Jane Roberts)

Kindle edition: https://amzn.eu/bRT5lww

[Sena]

They aren't consciously choosing death, maybe, but they are almost automatically making the choices that lead to their death.

Kyle, yes, some vaccine refusers may be unconsciously choosing death. But even the best Covid 19 vaccines are only 90% effective, so even someone who has had the vaccine will die if it is the chosen time of death. Someone who really believes that he will not die of Covid, will not die even if he refuses the vaccine.

[LarryH]

Someone who really believes that he will not die of Covid, will not die even if he refuses the vaccine.

The morgues are filled with people who refused the vaccine and at least stated that they really believed that they would not die of Covid. Maybe they didn't really believe what they were saying, but they had to go along with their spouse, their friends, the people they voted for, and the commentators on Fox News. It was their patriotic duty to disbelieve Dr. Fauci. After all, didn't he change his mind a few times (a.k.a. "lied")?

[Sena]

The morgues are filled with people who refused the vaccine and at least stated that they really believed that they would not die of Covid.

Larry, were you in telepathic communication with these people?

[LarryH]

Larry, were you in telepathic communication with these people?

No, as I said, they "at least stated that they really believed that they would not die of Covid. Maybe they didn't really believe what they were saying..."
This is just to note that peoples' words don't always match their beliefs. This might speak to conscious vs. unconscious beliefs. But as I have said before, I have a belief that I will not be killed crossing the street, and yet I have this silly idea that I should still look both ways before crossing the street.

[Sena]

No, as I said, they "at least stated that they really believed that they would not die of Covid. Maybe they didn't really believe what they were saying..."

Larry, what is the source of your information? Even if they stated they would not die of Covid, we do not know what they really believed unless we have telepathic insight into their minds.

[LarryH]

Larry, what is the source of your information? Even if they stated they would not die of Covid, we do not know what they really believed unless we have telepathic insight into their minds.

Sena, I only said what they stated. I admitted that we don't know what they actually believed. I don't have to be telepathic to know what they said. I have seen reports of these statements from multiple sources. Just go to the link above in usmaak's reply no. 10 above for some examples. My comments do not challenge your comment above:

Someone who really believes that he will not die of Covid, will not die even if he refuses the vaccine.

It is more to the point that we cannot really know what someone really believes based on their statements. If someone says they will not die of Covid and then dies of Covid, it would appear that they are either lying or not in touch with their beliefs (which are likely unconscious).

[Kyle]

They aren't consciously choosing death, maybe, but they are almost automatically making the choices that lead to their death.

Kyle, yes, some vaccine refusers may be unconsciously choosing death. But even the best Covid 19 vaccines are only 90% effective, so even someone who has had the vaccine will die if it is the chosen time of death. Someone who really believes that he will not die of Covid, will not die even if he refuses the vaccine.

Sena, maybe we could just agree that, following Seth, someone who is not ready to die will not die of Covid. When this conversation goes on to making assertions about totally impossible-to-know things like belief, well... it risks becoming comical, even though I don't think you're trying to be funny. It reminds me of a Norm McDonald joke, you seem so deadpan serious when you say these things.

(I've been watching the late Norm McDonald on video a lot lately).

[Sena]

Sena, maybe we could just agree that, following Seth, someone who is not ready to die will not die of Covid.

Kyle, you and I would agree on that, but I don't think Larry would. My posts above were attempts to encourage Larry to clarify his position on this topic.

[LarryH]

Sena, maybe we could just agree that, following Seth, someone who is not ready to die will not die of Covid.

Kyle, you and I would agree on that, but I don't think Larry would. My posts above were attempts to encourage Larry to clarify his position on this topic.

Sena, did you miss my clarification? I agree with both of you. I can only assume that you disagree that people often say they believe something that they don't really believe. But that is the only possibility if we follow Seth.

From a news column today: "News stories are full of people who gambled believing they could self-medicate, taking various remedies only to deteriorate and die. Five anti-vax radio talk hosts, who also gambled and believed they could handle it, have died in the last month."

In a Sethian context, these people chose to die. By being anti-vax, they may have chosen "how" to die. Frankly, I would rather be hit by a truck than slowly suffocate to death.

[Sena]

In a Sethian context, these people chose to die. By being anti-vax, they may have chosen "how" to die. Frankly, I would rather be hit by a truck than slowly suffocate to death.

Larry, thanks for the clarification. It is the mechanical ventilator which causes a lot of suffering to Covid patients. My understanding of Seth is that those who choose to die can die without undue suffering. If someone chooses to die, there are less painful means than being hit by a truck.

[LarryH]

Larry, thanks for the clarification. It is the mechanical ventilator which causes a lot of suffering to Covid patients. My understanding of Seth is that those who choose to die can die without undue suffering.

My two sisters and father have all been on ventilators. In all cases, the vents kept them alive. My sisters could not remember their experience. I was only able to speak to my dad while he was intubated. I asked him if he was comfortable, and he nodded yes. Then next day, as they removed him from the ventilator, he had a cardiac arrest and died. My mom and I were able to spend time with him the day before (without the vent, he would have died earlier). Ventilated patients are sedated to minimize their discomfort, assuming they are even conscious. If ventilation succeeds in raising their O2Sat levels, they no longer feel like they are suffocating. Even for those who end up dying, the ventilators allow families to say good-bye (over zoom or facetime in cases of Covid). There is no question that ventilators have saved countless lives, Covid and otherwise. If Seth said that people know when they will die, I don't think that necessarily means that they cannot change their minds.

You may recall that I designed the most widely used high-end life support ventilator in the world. That being said, I am OK with your opinion about ventilators. I suggest that if you have not done so, you write up an advanced care directive stating that you never want to be put on life support.

[usmaak]

There is no question that ventilators have saved countless lives, Covid and otherwise. If Seth said that people know when they will die, I don't think that necessarily means that they cannot change their minds.

I think that I remember reading somewhere in Seth Speaks or Nature of Personal Reality that someone can always change their mind and take a different path.

[strangerthings]

Maybe I give people too much credit, but I try to see those who seem to be choosing to DIE (because they don't like the government?) as not simply too stupid to live. Are we witnessing mass protests in which individual deaths are intended to "make a statement"? What would Seth say about all this seemingly mindless insanity? Here is an excerpt from The Nature of Mass Events that addresses this question:

" Now: To a certain extent (underlined), epidemics are the result of a mass suicide phenomenon on the parts of those involved. Biological, sociological, or even economic factors may be involved, in that for a variety of reasons, and at different levels, whole groups of individuals want to die at any given time — but in such a way that their individual deaths amount to a mass statement.

On one level the deaths are a protest against the time in which they occur. Those involved have private reasons, however. The reasons, of course, vary from one individual to another, yet all involved "want their death to serve a purpose" beyond private concerns. Partially, then, such deaths are meant to make the survivors question the conditions (dash) — for unconsciously the species well knows there are reasons for such mass deaths that go beyond accepted beliefs."
—NoME Chapter 1: Session 802, April 25, 1977

Is this what we are now witnessing? I hope this isn't too inflammatory a topic, because I'm trying to get beyond the warlike mentality. I'm really at a loss to say what kind of statement or purpose these deaths might serve.

There is nothing wrong with protesting. There is nothing wrong with experiencing this.
Why would you be at a "loss" because of what someone else is doing.  Its their life path.

[strangerthings]

Deaths before vaccines were available may not be able to be lumped as easily into categories of why they "chose" to die. We know though that these days, the vast majority of those who are dying or getting seriously ill are the unvaccinated. Among those, the largest group might be those who are eligible but have chosen not to be vaccinated. Discounting those whose choice was for religious reasons or who waited for the FDA's full approval, we are down to those whose choice was for reasons of "personal freedom" and an opportunity to vent about that. These tend to be people who are angry with society and are vulnerable to various conspiracy theories and social media falsehoods. Like those who stormed the Capitol in January, they are basically dissatisfied with their lives and looking for some way to lash out and blame someone else for their pathetic lives and also to find a savior that they can trust, whether that is horse dewormer or someone talking about Jewish space lasers. Sorry about touching on politics, but unless someone is offended by me bringing up horse dewormer or Jewish space lasers, I can't help you. Anyway, many of them are now filling our ICUs and choosing to pass on, perhaps because they simply cannot make sense of the world anymore when their deeply held beliefs are constantly being challenged by reality. My opinion, fwiw.

wow man lol
That is a lot of OLC

yeah blame it ALL ON US LOL

I will never take the injection

[LarryH]

wow man lol
That is a lot of OLC

yeah blame it ALL ON US LOL

I will never take the injection

Don't know what "OLC" is.
My post was not about blame. Care to explain?
You can choose not to take the injection. Would you mind saying why? No pressure.

[strangerthings]

Larry, were you in telepathic communication with these people?

No, as I said, they "at least stated that they really believed that they would not die of Covid. Maybe they didn't really believe what they were saying..."
This is just to note that peoples' words don't always match their beliefs. This might speak to conscious vs. unconscious beliefs. But as I have said before, I have a belief that I will not be killed crossing the street, and yet I have this silly idea that I should still look both ways before crossing the street.

and people really believe they will die of cancer

what gives here?

Im safe from all serious illness just not covid when I KNOW I have a super powerful immune system ? Is that what you are saying?

Its all or nothing baby! You cant serve two masters

[strangerthings]

wow man lol
That is a lot of OLC

yeah blame it ALL ON US LOL

I will never take the injection

Don't know what "OLC" is.
My post was not about blame. Care to explain?
You can choose not to take the injection. Would you mind saying why? No pressure.

Official Line of Consciousness OLC

And yeah you kinda did blame the un "vaxd" on filling ICUs blah blah and equated them to jan 6 protesters lol

as far as my reason why

I AM A WORTHY DESERVING PERSON
I HAVE A RIGHT TO MY LIFE IN THIS UNIVERSE
I HAVE A RIGHT TO BE BECAUSE I AM

I HAVE A SUPER POWERFUL IMMUNE SYSTEM
I AM IMMUNE FROM ALL SERIOUS ILLNESS

I am not broken. Thank you very much.

[LarryH]

strangerthings, thank you for your reply. I know where you are coming from.

[Sena]

Its all or nothing baby! You cant serve two masters

St, you come up with some great quotes.

No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

In this instance, if one is serving the God of Science, what is one doing on a Seth forum?

[LarryH]

In this instance, if one is serving the God of Science, what is one doing on a Seth forum?

It seems that there is room for scientists (and engineers) to expand their views toward a Sethian context (whether or not they actually studied Seth). For instance, I would place Dean Radin, Edgar Mitchell, Dr. Tien-Sheng Hsu, David Bohm, and Norm Friedman in this category, two of whom have written books based on Sethian ideas.

[Kyle]

There is nothing wrong with protesting. There is nothing wrong with experiencing this.
Why would you be at a "loss" because of what someone else is doing.  Its their life path.

Well, if they really wanted to do a righteous protest, maybe they would do something more like setting themselves on fire, or jumping off Pike's Peak, say. Go out with a bang instead of, you know, dying in an ICU.

That may sound offensive, but it felt right to the point at least.

[Tob]

Thanks for the comment. Kekule received the Nobel prize for a dream in which he saw a snake biting itself into the tail. He woke up and scribbled the formula of the benzene ring on a piece of paper.

Many scientists were influenced by Eastern philosophies, not understanding the rudimentary character of these explanatory systems.

According to Seth the cosmology he has been transmitting via Jane Roberts and Robert Butts existed only in fragments in various belief systems on Earth, usually distorted by religious dogma.

If scientists would be prepared to accept consciousness as the driving force behind the creation of matter, our technological developments would be certainly more holistic and no longer so compartmentalized and  reductionist.

It looks that future science (in particular medical science) may be entirely different in that there will be structured interactions with parallel realities (Seth). In TES 4, 5, or 6 Seth is describing a contact or a kind of dialogue with a scientist on a parallel Earth (Dr. Ingram). I have not yet managed to read that book.

Structuring the cosmology of Seth in a way that it can be understood and processed by scientists would be a giant step forward. They cannot read the books in the form in which they are written and available now. They do not have the time, and they could not formulate what they have been reading and translate that into the proper scientific terms of their specific community. They would be risking their reputation, their career and their pensions.

Mainstream science is structurally not really conducive to outstanding new ideas or concepts. (Thomas Kuhn: The structure of scientific revolutions')

[Kyle]

If scientists would be prepared to accept consciousness as the driving force behind the creation of matter, our technological developments would be certainly more holistic and no longer so compartmentalized and  reductionist.

This could happen, I believe, only with scientists who are not supported by academia, DOD, etc. Independent scholars, that is. Otherwise, Science would be almost sure to turn it into something grotesque. Actually, that could happen soon, given the prevailing views on consciousness in neuro- and cognitive sciences.

[Tob]

If scientists would be prepared to accept consciousness as the driving force behind the creation of matter, our technological developments would be certainly more holistic and no longer so compartmentalized and  reductionist.

This could happen, I believe, only with scientists who are not supported by academia, DOD, etc. Independent scholars, that is. Otherwise, Science would almost be sure to turn it into something grotesque.

Yes. If they had to look for funding they would have to try to 'weaponize' it first.

[LarryH]

wow man lol
That is a lot of OLC

yeah blame it ALL ON US LOL

I will never take the injection

strangerthings, even though we posted back and forth about this, something kept gnawing at me. I finally realized what it was. My original post that resulted in your reaction above was about people who have chosen to die of Covid. Clearly, that is not you, so even if you were to interpret my post as "blaming" anyone, it cannot possibly apply to those who have not chosen to die of Covid.

That being said, among my other main points in this thread is that what people consciously believe does not necessarily match what they unconsciously believe.

And one last thing: If someone chooses not to get vaccinated because they are sure that their immune system can handle Covid, they can still get Covid without symptoms and pass it on to others. A vaccinated person can get it as well, but the viral load is significantly reduced, so there is less chance of others catching it from them. So choosing to not be vaccinated puts others at risk. You can say that from a Sethian viewpoint, those others would be choosing to catch it from you, but if your close friend or relative caught it from you and got sick, would you honestly not feel some degree of responsibility?

[Sena]

Dean Radin, Edgar Mitchell, Dr. Tien-Sheng Hsu, David Bohm, and Norm Friedman

Larry, I accept that the above-named are open-minded scientists, but you have missed the point of strangerthing's quote.

[strangerthings]

@LarryH


Ok


YOU Larry forget about MY BELIEFS


If I choose to be a "carrier" then I will AND ...if YOU CHOOSE THE BELIEF and state of mind that YOU can "catch" whatever anything and everything from others then so you shall and I will give such to you FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE.

You sure do give me A LOT of power over you! If I didnt know any better I would swear you are calling me your god?? 

Do you even read the Seth material? If you do ....do you practice with the psy time and exercises and do your belief work???


I LIVE IN A SAFE UNIVERSE
MY UNIVERSE IS INTRINSICALLY SAFE
MY LIFE IS CHARMED AND I AM SAFE FROM HARM FOREVER


This means whatever it means to you.


Deaths before vaccines were available may not be able to be lumped as easily into categories of why they "chose" to die.

Assumption! "May" is you projecting your beliefs into a future. You are projecting from a state of fear or....other.

"We know though that these days, the vast majority of those who are dying or getting seriously ill are the unvaccinated. "

Who is WE? Leave me out of that please.
And you have ZERO proof unless you hear from the OLC news that this is true!
You find a devil you only make more.



Among those, the largest group might be those who are eligible but have chosen not to be vaccinated.

AGAIN with your maybe's and might's! You can not prove any of this. Only hearsay my friend! Pure and simple OLC news.

Discounting those whose choice was for religious reasons or who waited for the FDA's full approval, we are down to those whose choice was for reasons of "personal freedom" and an opportunity to vent about that.

OLC belief. And pardon me but it sounds as if you are saying "screw your personal freedom and live up to MY expectations." I could be wrong though. 


These tend to be people who are angry with society and are vulnerable to various conspiracy theories and social media falsehoods.


Is this true? Am I the only exception? HARDLY and this is merely your opinion and it does not come from a confident safe state of mind. Much less a gentle loving and lifting state. You are projecting your anger, insecurity, unsafe universe into the future because you think perhaps humanity is flawed? I honestly do not know that is for you to choose to mull over and figure out if you choose to. Could you at all possibly just love us so much but yet we fail your expectations?

Like those who stormed the Capitol in January, they are basically dissatisfied with their lives and looking for some way to lash out and blame someone else for their pathetic lives

Ummmm wth is all of that !

and also to find a savior that they can trust, whether that is horse dewormer or someone talking about Jewish space lasers.

And yet you protest so much that I THE UNVAXD BE YOUR SAVIOUR

Sorry about touching on politics, but unless someone is offended by me bringing up horse dewormer or Jewish space lasers, I can't help you.

The only thing that can help ME is to DO THE WORK. I have seen many people benefit from doing the work and live more stress free lives. Life is always better than the story we are telling about it.

Also, is this true? "unless someone is offended by me bringing up horse dewormer or Jewish space lasers, I can't help you." ?


Anyway, many of them are now filling our ICUs and choosing to pass on, perhaps because they simply cannot make sense of the world anymore when their deeply held beliefs are constantly being challenged by reality.


Perhaps, maybe, might

These are you wonderings and ponderings projected as fact.
You are assuming you have a clue what others are doing and why.
Also, "deeply held beliefs"......(looks at your post)

"My original post that resulted in your reaction above "


Let us get one thing real clear. My reaction was not a "result" of your post. You do not have that kind of power over me unless I give it to you which I did not. My post was a result of hopefully pointing out to someone clearly having issues with how I live my life (as if its your business to begin with) but more importantly, I have never seen you post in this way before. You have been here quite some time and I want to ruffle your feathers. THAT my dear Seth forum friend is more on point from my end.



"That being said, among my other main points in this thread is that what people consciously believe does not necessarily match what they unconsciously believe."

Invisible beliefs can be seen by doing the work!


"And one last thing: If someone chooses not to get vaccinated because they are sure that their immune system can handle Covid, they can still get Covid without symptoms and pass it on to others."

I LIVE IN A SAFE UNIVERSE BUT ANY ONE ELSE THAT IS CLOSE CAN CATCH MY UNSAFE COOTIES
That is not how it works.
You completely negate my safe universe and exuberant health!! lol
I wish for you your very own safe universe!!!!



A vaccinated person can get it as well, but the viral load is significantly reduced, so there is less chance of others catching it from them.

That is merely YOUR interpretation and belief system. You believe in how it all works so much so I suggest you stick with it.

"So choosing to not be vaccinated puts others at risk."

Again do you ...practice the work? Do you read the Seth material? I had no idea I was your god!!!!

"You can say that from a Sethian viewpoint, those others would be choosing to catch it from you, but if your close friend or relative caught it from you and got sick, would you honestly not feel some degree of responsibility?"

I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR CHOICES. I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR YOU EVER AT ALL.
You are responsible for your own joy! I am not the one who can make you happy, safe, healthy, secure, rich, confident...none of that! Thats all YOU buddy!



Sometimes I can come across harsh sounding......but my caps are not yelling just merely emphasis. Having to underline things so much is too much up and down clicking for my taste.

By the way, when you have the time, please do give the god of you its job back to you please lol
And when you can... set the world free from your prison.
You do not have to, by all means please keep me as your saviour. I probably will not hear your prayers though. lol Who knows though... I might! Simply just tell me: What do you want?

---

I am greatness.
Every breath I take is a breath of quality. - TPS5
Every breath you take is a breath of quality. - DEAVF2

If you have CD 7, I highly recommend it.

"Specific inoculations are given under various conditions. They are bound to affect the biological system. The people who take such inoculations within your own culture, now, usually do so because they do not want the disease specified, and they believe that the inoculation will prevent it. It is impossible to tell ahead of time how many of those individuals would come down with the disease otherwise, yet diseases do come and go whether or not inoculations are given. The mechanisms operate in such a fashion that by now overall belief has come to such a point that the same results would almost be effected if an inoculation of no particular value were given instead. The mind is as effective against viruses as anything else—and in such hypothetical cases immune reactions would be set up biologically, through the mind's beliefs."

"You number viruses as people number demons. The cause of epidemics, say, is as I have given it in the early chapters of Mass Reality. It is considered to some extent superstitious to beware of preventative inoculations. And yet the body knows that all-in-all, ideally, it does not make sense to inflict even a minute infection or illness upon the body, to introduce foreign elements that have not naturally been accepted by the body in its own context. Therefore often such preventative inoculations—by inoculations I mean here any method of enforced introduction of disease—these methods often bring about other effects of an unfortunate nature."

"You would not have had difficulty without the inoculation. At the time you did suffer a state of shock initially, but the body could handle that. You need general inoculations now, in the society at large, with children's diseases and so forth, because the belief in the inoculations is so strong."

—TPS4 Deleted Session December 12, 1977

And I recommend you comb through this section:
https://findingseth.com/q/inoculations/

I rest my case.

[Sena]

If scientists would be prepared to accept consciousness as the driving force behind the creation of matter, our technological developments would be certainly more holistic and no longer so compartmentalized and  reductionist.

It looks that future science (in particular medical science) may be entirely different in that there will be structured interactions with parallel realities (Seth). In TES 4, 5, or 6 Seth is describing a contact or a kind of dialogue with a scientist on a parallel Earth (Dr. Ingram). I have not yet managed to read that book.

Structuring the cosmology of Seth in a way that it can be understood and processed by scientists would be a giant step forward. They cannot read the books in the form in which they are written and available now. They do not have the time, and they could not formulate what they have been reading and translate that into the proper scientific terms of their specific community. They would be risking their reputation, their career and their pensions.

Mainstream science is structurally not really conducive to outstanding new ideas or concepts. (Thomas Kuhn: The structure of scientific revolutions')

Tob, thanks for your insightful account of mainstream science. I could not, however, find a reference to Dr. Ingram in the Seth search engine, nor in Early Session 5 or 6.
The following Seth quote may be relevant with regard to parallel realities, especially at a cellular level:

"All probable worlds exist now. All probable variations on the most minute aspect in any reality exist now. You weave in and out of probabilities constantly, picking and choosing as you go along. The cells within your body do the same thing. (Slowly:) I told you once that there were pulses of activity in which you blinked off and on — this applying even to atomic and subatomic particles.1 "You" assign as real — present here and now — only that activity that is your signal. "You" are not aware of the others. When people think in terms of one self, they of course identify with one body. You know that the cellular structure of it changes constantly. The body is at any given moment, however, a mass conglomeration of energy formed from that rich bank of probable activity. The body is not stable in the terms usually thought of. On deeper biological levels the cells straddle probabilities, and trigger responses. Consciousness rides upon and within the pulses mentioned earlier, and forms its own organizations of identity. Each probability — probable only in relation to and from the standpoint of another probability — is inviolate, however, in that it is not destroyed. Once formed, the pattern will follow its own nature." (from "The "Unknown" Reality, Volume One (A Seth Book)" by Jane Roberts, Robert F. Butts)

Kindle edition: https://amzn.eu/3jtWRnc

[strangerthings]

There is nothing wrong with protesting. There is nothing wrong with experiencing this.
Why would you be at a "loss" because of what someone else is doing.  Its their life path.

Well, if they really wanted to do a righteous protest, maybe they would do something more like setting themselves on fire, or jumping off Pike's Peak, say. Go out with a bang instead of, you know, dying in an ICU.

That may sound offensive, but it felt right to the point at least.

I do understand what you mean however, you hypnotize yourself with your speech and mental conversations you have and are currently having. You think they SHOULD do this that or the other. The families of consciousness that Seth talks about, there is one family in particular that group together to make these kinds of movements.
Are you saying they should all jump off a bridge even though that family INCLUDES YOU TOO ?

We are a family of humanity. We are all here to do what we are all here to do. And who are you to tell me what I should or should not do or how to die?!?!?!?!

What if, this IS going out with a bang for them? What if they are here to experience a death by disease so they do not repeat it in the future incarnations. Should they still jump off a bridge?!?!  Set themselves on fire??

Wow man maybe go watch John Wick maybe that can help with the flow of your anger.  I tried this once and it did help. lol!

No one can live up to your expectations including yourself in its current state lol

I expect zero stress tomorrow. I better get it or everyone can go to hell and screw earth salt the earth if I dont get my way!

How about when you have anything you are protesting about, think about what you said about "maybe they could set themselves on fire." Protesting is protesting.

If the founding "fathers" of my republic country never protested for freedom and decided to set themselves all on fire instead then that would have made it very easy for us to be ruled by tyrants and merely be subjects to the government, and and and and and......

If we did not protest the horrific inoculations, and experimentations on people (Jews, Gentiles, Countless others)  they were giving everyone in the death camps in Germany and other places, the Nuremberg trials never would have happened. We would have just as easily agreed with Germany's beliefs.


If the women never protested with womens sufferage women would not vote in my country!! Should we then have set ourselves on fire?

Which protesting is ok with you and how should we do it exactly so we all know not to protest that particular thing or our way of expressing how we feel because you do not approve!!

lol

cmon folks!

[Sena]

Otherwise, Science would be almost sure to turn it into something grotesque. Actually, that could happen soon, given the prevailing views on consciousness in neuro- and cognitive sciences.

Kyle, do you mean people like  Daniel Dennett "Consciousness Explained"? According to Dennett, he has explained consciousness and there is nothing more to be said.

[Tob]

If scientists would be prepared to accept consciousness as the driving force behind the creation of matter, our technological developments would be certainly more holistic and no longer so compartmentalized and  reductionist.

It looks that future science (in particular medical science) may be entirely different in that there will be structured interactions with parallel realities (Seth). In TES 4, 5, or 6 Seth is describing a contact or a kind of dialogue with a scientist on a parallel Earth (Dr. Ingram). I have not yet managed to read that book.

Structuring the cosmology of Seth in a way that it can be understood and processed by scientists would be a giant step forward. They cannot read the books in the form in which they are written and available now. They do not have the time, and they could not formulate what they have been reading and translate that into the proper scientific terms of their specific community. They would be risking their reputation, their career and their pensions.

Mainstream science is structurally not really conducive to outstanding new ideas or concepts. (Thomas Kuhn: The structure of scientific revolutions')

Tob, thanks for your insightful account of mainstream science. I could not, however, find a reference to Dr. Ingram in the Seth search engine, nor in Early Session 5 or 6.
The following Seth quote may be relevant with regard to parallel realities, especially at a cellular level:

"All probable worlds exist now. All probable variations on the most minute aspect in any reality exist now. You weave in and out of probabilities constantly, picking and choosing as you go along. The cells within your body do the same thing. (Slowly:) I told you once that there were pulses of activity in which you blinked off and on — this applying even to atomic and subatomic particles.1 "You" assign as real — present here and now — only that activity that is your signal. "You" are not aware of the others. When people think in terms of one self, they of course identify with one body. You know that the cellular structure of it changes constantly. The body is at any given moment, however, a mass conglomeration of energy formed from that rich bank of probable activity. The body is not stable in the terms usually thought of. On deeper biological levels the cells straddle probabilities, and trigger responses. Consciousness rides upon and within the pulses mentioned earlier, and forms its own organizations of identity. Each probability — probable only in relation to and from the standpoint of another probability — is inviolate, however, in that it is not destroyed. Once formed, the pattern will follow its own nature." (from "The "Unknown" Reality, Volume One (A Seth Book)" by Jane Roberts, Robert F. Butts)

Kindle edition: https://amzn.eu/3jtWRnc

It looks that the name is Dr. Instream.

If you follow the quotation you mentioned in your post (above) it becomes obvious why science has to understand Seth. The machines and instruments experimenters use are aligned with our specific reality aspect. They blink on and off in synchrony with the specific reality game which is played on the stage. They will - structurally - never be able to find out about the larger picture, as they do not receive the data which they would have to measure to come to the point where the experimenters and the scientists would ask the right questions.

With billions of Euro you get in Cern just what you expect to be getting. You construct 'events' which you then interprete as short-lived particles which do not even 'exist' (hadn't you tried to measure them). This is a dead end. According to Seth, when exploring categorically new approaches to space travel, we will discover the 'inside' of the 'real' reality producing machinery (I think 'F2' in his terminology). Only then the picture will change. Science in the future will be entirely different. We will know about our parallel selves (Seth) and we will use that knowledge quite practically on a day-to-day basis, in particular when it comes to healing bodies by means of vibrations (Seth). We could connect to the healthy ones in parallel realities.

[Tob]

If scientists would be prepared to accept consciousness as the driving force behind the creation of matter, our technological developments would be certainly more holistic and no longer so compartmentalized and  reductionist.

It looks that future science (in particular medical science) may be entirely different in that there will be structured interactions with parallel realities (Seth). In TES 4, 5, or 6 Seth is describing a contact or a kind of dialogue with a scientist on a parallel Earth (Dr. Ingram). I have not yet managed to read that book.

Structuring the cosmology of Seth in a way that it can be understood and processed by scientists would be a giant step forward. They cannot read the books in the form in which they are written and available now. They do not have the time, and they could not formulate what they have been reading and translate that into the proper scientific terms of their specific community. They would be risking their reputation, their career and their pensions.

Mainstream science is structurally not really conducive to outstanding new ideas or concepts. (Thomas Kuhn: The structure of scientific revolutions')

Tob, thanks for your insightful account of mainstream science. I could not, however, find a reference to Dr. Ingram in the Seth search engine, nor in Early Session 5 or 6.
The following Seth quote may be relevant with regard to parallel realities, especially at a cellular level:

"All probable worlds exist now. All probable variations on the most minute aspect in any reality exist now. You weave in and out of probabilities constantly, picking and choosing as you go along. The cells within your body do the same thing. (Slowly:) I told you once that there were pulses of activity in which you blinked off and on — this applying even to atomic and subatomic particles.1 "You" assign as real — present here and now — only that activity that is your signal. "You" are not aware of the others. When people think in terms of one self, they of course identify with one body. You know that the cellular structure of it changes constantly. The body is at any given moment, however, a mass conglomeration of energy formed from that rich bank of probable activity. The body is not stable in the terms usually thought of. On deeper biological levels the cells straddle probabilities, and trigger responses. Consciousness rides upon and within the pulses mentioned earlier, and forms its own organizations of identity. Each probability — probable only in relation to and from the standpoint of another probability — is inviolate, however, in that it is not destroyed. Once formed, the pattern will follow its own nature." (from "The "Unknown" Reality, Volume One (A Seth Book)" by Jane Roberts, Robert F. Butts)

Kindle edition: https://amzn.eu/3jtWRnc

It looks that the name is Dr. Instream.

If you follow the quotation you mentioned in your post (above) it becomes obvious why science has to understand Seth. The machines and instruments experimenters use are aligned with our specific reality aspect. They blink on and off in synchrony with the specific reality game which is played on the stage. They will - structurally - never be able to find out about the larger picture, as they do not receive the data which they would have to measure to come to the point where the experimenters and the scientists would ask the right questions.

With billions of Euro you get in Cern just what you expect to be getting. You construct 'events' which you then interprete as short-lived particles which do not even 'exist' (hadn't you tried to measure them). This is a dead end. According to Seth, when exploring categorically new approaches to space travel, we will discover the 'inside' of the 'real' reality producing machinery (I think 'F2' in his terminology). Only then the picture will change. Science in the future will be entirely different. We will know about our parallel selves (Seth) and we will use that knowledge quite practically on a day-to-day basis, in particular when it comes to healing bodies by means of vibrations (Seth). We could connect to the healthy ones in parallel realities.

The bulk of the experiments with Dr. Instream seem to be in TES 6. It looks that they start in TES 4, which I don't have. From what I read it had to do with a parallel reality, but I am not sure. One would have to read the three books. In any case science does have its place in the context of Seth. To corroborate his cosmology.

[Tob]

The experiments with Dr. Instream have been conducted in this reality, aiming at improving the inner senses. The inner senses are then the one's needed to get access to parallel realities. According to Seth (NoPR) mankind has not yet reached the end of its physiological development. In the future we will know about our parallel selves and interact with them.

'By now it should be obvious to you that you perceive only a small portion of reality; indeed, that your idea of reality is formed and limited by your perceptions. As you dig deeper into yourself you will find hints of other realities. Yours is not the only system that exists within what you would call the same space as the physical universe. You simply do not perceive these other systems. It is not space or time that divides one system from another. Habits of perception divide them however.

The same atoms and molecules that are perceived in your system as physical objects are perceived in other systems as entirely different realities. Basically the same energy that composes a system projects into other systems, and it is perceived differently. Space, time, size, density, all of these are the results of your own perception.

They have little to do with the nature of basic reality. Distance has nothing to do with space. Realities that YOU can only perceive in terms of light can, for example, exist as sound, as motion, as color, and can have dimensions with which you are completely unfamiliar. We will end up talking about your quasars, but first we need introductory material.' (Session 248)

[Tob]

The experiments with Dr. Instream have been conducted in this reality, aiming at improving the inner senses. The inner senses are then the one's needed to get access to parallel realities. According to Seth (NoPR) mankind has not yet reached the end of its physiological development. In the future we will know about our parallel selves and interact with them.

'By now it should be obvious to you that you perceive only a small portion of reality; indeed, that your idea of reality is formed and limited by your perceptions. As you dig deeper into yourself you will find hints of other realities. Yours is not the only system that exists within what you would call the same space as the physical universe. You simply do not perceive these other systems. It is not space or time that divides one system from another. Habits of perception divide them however.

The same atoms and molecules that are perceived in your system as physical objects are perceived in other systems as entirely different realities. Basically the same energy that composes a system projects into other systems, and it is perceived differently. Space, time, size, density, all of these are the results of your own perception.

They have little to do with the nature of basic reality. Distance has nothing to do with space. Realities that YOU can only perceive in terms of light can, for example, exist as sound, as motion, as color, and can have dimensions with which you are completely unfamiliar. We will end up talking about your quasars, but first we need introductory material.' (Session 248)

"(With my probable self and Dr. Pietra in another more advanced reality.) *What happened was a very momentary merging on deeper-than-conscious levels."
—TES9 Session 487 June 16, 1969

It maybe that the name I had in mind was Dr. Pietra. I am sure I once read about an active interaction with a doctor in a parallel reality. He is developing drugs. I don't have TES 9.