Another Mass Event: Putin vs The World

[inavalan]

Seth-Related Discussions Topics about Seth quotes, questions about understanding concepts, Seth or Jane Roberts books. Please, no posts about other teachers. Any posts or topics regarding other teachers/speakers will be split and moved to the Other Speakers/Teachers board.


Lets keep this as intended please. I realize we forget but this area is for us to understand things through using Seth material. Not others. There are other areas for that.

There is zealand, chomsky, some newsy site... completely unrelated to seth teaching us. Please keep this is mind. For me I havent a clue what you are referring to. Please try to not go off the rails here. Thanks.

I believe that anybody can skip what they aren't interested in. In my opinion those examples you referred to where pertinent to the subject in discussion. You can't have one discussion in multiple forums.

But, surely, it is up to Deb.

This thread, from the beginning, wasn't really about the Seth material, but about our personal views about the war in Ukraine, so maybe it needs to be moved elsewhere, if Debs considers so.

The Zeland quote, that I posted, is quite in line with the Seth material, isn't it? What Zeland calls "pendulum" is what Seth calls "natural hypnosis".

Also, obviously we all read parts of the Seth material, and we understood it quite differently. There isn't a unique truth, or a true interpretation of the material. Everybody will get from it what fits their level of evolvement. What is true for you now, it isn't true for me now.

Well, its posted in a Seth only category so........
I guess I was hoping we can bring out more Seth teachings in relation to this particular subject considering where its located. Thats all.

And btw, the TES9 quote I posted is ALL Seth and VERY pertinent. Only the very beginning is Rob and Jane so I will edit it and make that italics so you can differentiate between the 3 of them even though they say good evening Seth.

Yes where others find things useful others wont. Thats a given. And when asking for me to expound, was that merely bait? lol Cmon now

I wasn't baiting you. It isn't my style. Whenever I have anything to say, I just say it.

You probably haven't read my follow up post: I didn't find any "meat" in that long quote. Actually I found it to be unlike Seth, with inconsistencies and distortions, like if Jane and Rob had a bad channeling day due to being distracted by their nuclear war fears.

That's why I was curious what you got from there. What did you find pertinent to the subject?

[strangerthings]

@Deb I know we go all over but I was hoping for it not to do that here

Its cool.

Ps. I didnt post any Goddard here (for once lol)

Hope you have a very pleasant out of town trip!

[strangerthings]

@inavalan
Its very Seth

I found all of it useful and great to know. He goes into more a little bit in the next session too.

[inavalan]

@inavalan
Its very Seth

I found all of it useful and great to know.

So, you don't want to share, to help me understand too. Why?

[Sena]

The horror and the results of mismanagement, and the vulnerability, are the teaching methods that each consciousness has accepted before entering your system. There is no way out but to learn or to ruin the entire
system. In no other field of reality are the terms so drastic.

@strangerthings , thanks for this very relevant quote. What Seth seems to be suggesting is that Putin is only beginning his rampage (Seth's horror), and his next step could be the invasion of Poland. Where is the "mismanagement" in this scenario? It could be the pacifism and cowardice of Western powers.

[Sena]

War stocks are surging as the Russia-Ukraine conflict rages on: Lockheed-Martin, Northrop up 20%.

Lockheed-Martin would certainly benefit from a third world war:

https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/products.html

[strangerthings]

@inavalan
Its very Seth

I found all of it useful and great to know.

So, you don't want to share, to help me understand too. Why?

No thats not it lol

For one it got me thinking about me personally and where I personally fit within the cycles of consciousness. Seth makes it very clear to me that consciousness cannot be forcibly restrained because then we would learn nothing. And he got me thinking that anybody on earth doing whatever it is they're doing they are learning no matter what it is and you cannot mature without learning.

We are in a maturing ground of our experiment. This passage reminds me and reminding us all that there are many different consciousnesses at different levels and some of them are strong enough and organized enough as a consciousness to do all these things in the world that we know can be done differently. More peacefully.

I think we are understanding that right now in many parts of the world they are going to extremes.

And Seth points out that we wouldn't be able to do any of that without this freedom we have.

And when I reflect I also realize that going to an extreme is necessary in our world because you wouldn't have extremes anywhere if we didn't have this freedom. And going to an extreme also means to me I wouldn't have the freedom to amplify or do an opposite I would not have the freedom to do that.

Plus how cool is it that he says that from this system the greatest potentials emerge!

If we did not go through the trials and tribulations of this system perhaps we would not expand through our incarnations in the way that we do here.

"The horror and the results of mismanagement, and the vulnerability, are the teaching methods that each consciousness has accepted before entering your system."

So in other words we all wanted to come here based on that lol

It's like he's saying we purposefully went into a system that is going to expand the extremes for our benefit.

Some say it's hard to appreciate the great things without having the other extreme experienced which is perhaps appreciating joy after going through so many hardships we appreciate the joy in life all the more so we will want to maintain joy rather than hardship. Now that's just an example thrown together.

I think the session keeps things in perspective. Like when he's talking about how the mass increase of some of these consciousnesses are not the ones giving us war. The ones giving us war are the ones that are realizing the potential of their own energy.

Their experience will be to learn how to handle it constructively.

And don't we want them to do that and they're never gonna do that unless they learn.

It's like the toddler that hasn't learned to share and bites the kid next to him because the kid wants his toy it's the same thing lol at least to me it is I mean I see no difference except age and "toy".

But if the toddler did not bite the kid next to him even though he really really wanted to because that was his go-to expression,  then the kid would just be repressing his expression and possibly very well could internalize it. So we want people to be who they really are get it out of your system and learn how to be joyful eventually.

Of course there is a guardian there to redirect the kid and help him or her understand there is a better way to handle aggression.  It would be up to that kid to understand that and learn that.

Can we learn that our natural state is a state of safety and grace and love unless we experienced the opposite of all of that?

And isn't it good to know that larger masses of individuals than ever before in this cycle realize that killing is wrong?

Now this brings me back to the very beginning when I started posting this reply. Reflecting on where I fit in this system I'm fairly sure that I have been through the war time and killing and all that kind of stuff in order to arrive at where I am today.

Well I know I have because I know one of my reincarnated lives I was an assassin and I got shot and I  actually know what it's like to be shot because that experience actually had me in a pool of sweat feeling pain excruciating pain as though I was shot and it was a good reminder that I don't want to be an assassin or murderer lol

That experience shook me it shook the foundations of me. It was so real for me that when I woke up it felt very real and I actually thought I was shot and I was frantically feeling my front area for blood and I was panting and heaving and crying it was quite an experience.

And where I ended that session it says "But remember you must consider the race and its inhabitants in the entire context of existence if you are to be realistic."

And to me that is saying if you want to be realistic about the events going on, the mass events and other people and how to consider them then understanding this session is very important.

... when you were in high school did you get angry at the elementary kids ?

Or.. as an adult do you get angry at babies?

That's what that last line says to me it speaks volumes.

[Sena]

Well I know I have because I know one of my reincarnated lives I was an assassin and I got shot and I  actually know what it's like to be shot because that experience actually had me in a pool of sweat feeling pain excruciating pain as though I was shot and it was a good reminder that I don't want to be an assassin or murderer lol

That experience shook me it shook the foundations of me. It was so real for me that when I woke up it felt very real and I actually thought I was shot and I was frantically feeling my front area for blood and I was panting and heaving and crying it was quite an experience.

St, thanks for sharing your experience. I am willing to admit that WWII is my favourite topic for leisure reading (i.e. when I want to relax).

[strangerthings]

@Sena
I watch Frazier or Fringe lol

[Deb]

Russia is using the Roman letter "Z" as a symbol of support for their army during their "special military operation" in Ukraine. Supposedly most Russians have no idea what the symbol represents, probably also what's really going on in Ukraine. BTW the Z letter symbol does not appear in the Russian alphabet. The Russian Z sound letter looks like a 3. The Z on Russian tanks and now elsewhere represents the word za (за) which in Russian is "for" or "behind." I don't know why they chose this symbol. Many people have commented that the Z looks like half of the German swastika, which is also ironic in that Putin insists his purpose for attacking Ukraine is eradicating Nazis from Russia. You can't make this stuff up.

Ironically one of the photos in this article shows a button with the Z and за мир (za mir = for peace). роскосмос (roskosmos) is the Russian cosmonauts program.

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/03/17/in-photos-pro-military-z-symbol-permeates-russian-society-a76956

BTW @inavalan who is your question in post #99 above directed to?

[Mark M]

inavalan wrote:

Honest questions:

What is your plan for not experiencing a war? What are you doing about it?

From your posts I understand that you are angry with warmongers, and that you hope that people will see the light and will refuse to go to war. Do you think that to be a realistic hope?

----=----

Who is this addressed to?

If it is me, I daily affirm and before sleep:

Every day in every way, I am getting better and better.

I will only react to constructive suggestions.

I seek to create an optimum probability/best possible outcome.

I think it's in NoPR, Seth said some people surrounded by war are actually able to be virtually unaffected by it.

"angry with warmongers"

Not really angry, more like disappointed, but the "meaty" (I agree) session gives pointers on how to regard such things as war.

I would be curious for you to point out what you see as its contradictions. I guess you wrote: "...full of inconsistencies and distortions..."

Seth did say there would be at times apparent contradictions in what he has to say.

For instance, some Sethniks dismiss the violations concept thinking YCYOR trumps that.

I am willing to accept that "contradiction."

"realistic hope"

"Once again, then, ideas of the most optimistic nature are the
biologically pertinent ones."

--Seth, Session 06\27/84 for The Way Toward Health

[Mark M]

Sad anniversary:

Nineteen Years Ago Today (Mar 19) the Bush Administration Invaded Iraq.

We are probably getting more media images of Russia's Ukraine atrocities than we did with the U.S.'s "Shock and Awe," etc. of Iraq.

Naked war crimes in both cases.

[inavalan]

...

BTW @inavalan who is your question in post #99 above directed to?

Sorry, at @Mark M
I probably clicked "reply" instead of "quote".

[inavalan]

@inavalan
Its very Seth

I found all of it useful and great to know.

So, you don't want to share, to help me understand too. Why?

No thats not it lol

For one it got me thinking about me personally and where I personally fit within the cycles of consciousness.  ...

Thank you for making the effort. Now I understand better why you posted that quote. That didn't change my impression about the quote.

[Deb]

I've been traveling across country and have reached my destination. Along the way, I've visited many small town centers, and most of the shops have sunflowers painted on their windows. Sunflowers are a symbol of support for peace in Ukraine.

On a long walk this morning I came across several signs on lawns that say "United Against Hate," which made me smile, because it reminded me of the much repeated Seth quote:

"Hatred of war will not bring peace — another example. Only love of peace will bring about those conditions."
—NoPR Part One: Chapter 2: Session 615, September 18, 1972

Is it better to be united against something unwanted, or unite over a wanted outcome? We humans always seem to be bass-akwards in our problem solving.

And then there's this:

"Thoughts of peace, particularly in the middle of chaos, take great energy. People who can ignore the physical evidence of wars and purposely think thoughts of peace will triumph — but in your terminology the word "meek" has come to mean spineless, inadequate, lacking energy. In Christ's time, the phrase about the meek inheriting the earth implied the energetic use of affirmation, of love and peace."
—NoPR Part Two: Chapter 21: Session 674, July 2, 1973

Do you (anyone reading this) suppose that our collective attention to the war in Ukraine is adding fuel to the fire? Once again, where do we draw the line? Do we watch what's currently happening with the war, or do we ditch the news and switch our focus to a positive outcome?

[inavalan]

inavalan wrote:

Honest questions:

What is your plan for not experiencing a war? What are you doing about it?

From your posts I understand that you are angry with warmongers, and that you hope that people will see the light and will refuse to go to war. Do you think that to be a realistic hope?

----=----

Who is this addressed to?

If it is me, I daily affirm and before sleep:

Every day in every way, I am getting better and better.

I will only react to constructive suggestions.

I seek to create an optimum probability/best possible outcome.

I think it's in NoPR, Seth said some people surrounded by war are actually able to be virtually unaffected by it.

"angry with warmongers"

Not really angry, more like disappointed, but the "meaty" (I agree) session gives pointers on how to regard such things as war.

I would be curious for you to point out what you see as its contradictions. I guess you wrote: "...full of inconsistencies and distortions..."

Seth did say there would be at times apparent contradictions in what he has to say.

For instance, some Sethniks dismiss the violations concept thinking YCYOR trumps that.

I am willing to accept that "contradiction."

"realistic hope"

"Once again, then, ideas of the most optimistic nature are the
biologically pertinent ones."

--Seth, Session 06\27/84 for The Way Toward Health

Thank you for your reply.

I disagree with that quote from your post. I believe to be Jane's or Rob's distortion. It gives more weight to the physical and the biological than it is my interpretation of Seth's message.

Not sure what "violations" are you referring to. Regarding YCYOR, my understanding is that each one of us (as personalities) experiences through their outer-self only the reality created by their own subconscious (which sometimes Jane channels as inner-self; inner- and outer-self are different focuses, not distinct selves). I won't go further into details now.

One of the inconsistencies of the "meaty" quote, is on these same lines of overemphasizing the  current turn of events (contemporaneous to Jane and Rob), vis-a-vis Seth's contention about probable realities. He repeatedly mentioned that based on people's choices other totally different realities develop and are as "real" as one we experience (e.g. Hitler won the war, or a ww2 turned nuclear and wiped out humanity). There is also Seth's concept about the spacious-present from which both the future and the past are created / changed. Several of his references in the "meaty" quote are inconsistent with those concepts I mentioned.

I believe that that session's distortions were caused by the strong emotional state of Jane and Rob when they started the session. Channeling is always strongly influenced by the channel's (Jane) emotional state, as well as by the audience's (Rob and guests) emotional state, because of the telepathic connection.

Regarding "everyday in every way ...": affirmations, and other such techniques are fruitful only inasmuch they are used correctly. To see if you're using it effectively, add a simple instruction like "and now raise my right hand to touch my nose", or such. If that doesn't happen, then most likely the "everyday ..." affirmation doesn't happen either.

In order for such techniques to work, one has to be in the proper state of consciousness.

Now ... I'd also say that I feel that so far it seems I can't establish a good exchange of ideas on this forum with others on Seth, on what's happening in the world, and such, because I can't establish a communication line, as my beliefs differ too much from others'. Surely, it is possible that my beliefs are the more distorted ones, but that isn't something that can be argued intellectually, so everyone has to rely only on their own inner-source of knowledge and guidance (their Seth-within).

[inavalan]

I've been traveling across country and have reached my destination. Along the way, I've visited many small town centers, and most of the shops have sunflowers painted on their windows. Sunflowers are a symbol of support for peace in Ukraine.

On a long walk this morning I came across several signs on lawns that say "United Against Hate," which made me smile, because it reminded me of the much repeated Seth quote:

"Hatred of war will not bring peace — another example. Only love of peace will bring about those conditions."
—NoPR Part One: Chapter 2: Session 615, September 18, 1972

Is it better to be united against something unwanted, or unite over a wanted outcome? We humans always seem to be bass-akwards in our problem solving.

And then there's this:

"Thoughts of peace, particularly in the middle of chaos, take great energy. People who can ignore the physical evidence of wars and purposely think thoughts of peace will triumph — but in your terminology the word "meek" has come to mean spineless, inadequate, lacking energy. In Christ's time, the phrase about the meek inheriting the earth implied the energetic use of affirmation, of love and peace."
—NoPR Part Two: Chapter 21: Session 674, July 2, 1973

Do you (anyone reading this) suppose that our collective attention to the war in Ukraine is adding fuel to the fire? Once again, where do we draw the line? Do we watch what's currently happening with the war, or do we ditch the news and switch our focus to a positive outcome?

This is where I differ from others ... The reality that I experience, isn't dependent on what others do or think. Each one of us will move from here on a life-line that matches their own beliefs and expectations. All probabilities are fulfilled: in some life-lines Russians will win, in others Ukraine, in others a nuclear holocaust will happen, and all the other possibilities. Each one of us will follow the probability that matches their beliefs and expectations, their focus. Groups of us with similar beliefs and expectations will go along together, but not all of us, and none of us will submit to another's choice.

This is an event that has a symbolism for each one of us, it is a lesson or a test we go through, at our individual level of evolvement. It doesn't have the same interpretation for all of us.

I went through such a violent experience, and I can tell you that while being there you don't know what is happening. There is a lot of intentional and unintentional misinformation and misperception. And you don't know for sure what was all about even when it is all over. Then, the history is written by the winner, which isn't usually the obvious one.

Those who hate, no matter how justified it may seem, will experience in their individual lives more situations that will cause them to feel hate. With anger the same. With every feeling the same, including sorry, compassion, regret, fear (negative emotions are always more intense because they ultimately originate in the survival instinct). This isn't about right vs. wrong, good, vs. evil, who started it, or such. And, don't forget about the spacious-present that causes both the future and the past to be continuously re-created (actually different possible life-lines followed or recalled)! We're Sethians-wannabees, aren't we?

[inavalan]

I think that most of us are experiencing "doublethink", and aren't aware of that. For example: holding simultaneously beliefs compatible with the Seth material, and beliefs that aren't compatible. Surely, "compatibility" is in the eyes of the beholder. We don't know what we don't know.

[Mark M]

Thanks for your reply, inavalan.

Violations per this in NoPR:

"An outright lie may or may not be a violation. A sex act may or may not be a violation. A scientific expedition may or may not be a violation. Not going to church on Sunday is not a violation. Having normal aggressive thoughts is not a violation. Doing violence to your body, or another's, is a violation. Doing violence to the spirit of another is a violation — but again, because you are conscious beings the interpretations are yours. Swearing is not a violation. If you believe that it is then in your mind it becomes one.



(12:01.) "Killing another human being is a violation. Killing while protecting your own body from death at the hands of another through immediate contact is a violation. Whether or not any justification seems apparent, the violation exists."



—Seth, NoPR, Chapter 8: Session 634, January 22, 1973

[inavalan]

Thanks for your reply, inavalan.

Violations per this in NoPR:

"An outright lie may or may not be a violation. A sex act may or may not be a violation. A scientific expedition may or may not be a violation. Not going to church on Sunday is not a violation. Having normal aggressive thoughts is not a violation. Doing violence to your body, or another's, is a violation. Doing violence to the spirit of another is a violation — but again, because you are conscious beings the interpretations are yours. Swearing is not a violation. If you believe that it is then in your mind it becomes one.



(12:01.) "Killing another human being is a violation. Killing while protecting your own body from death at the hands of another through immediate contact is a violation. Whether or not any justification seems apparent, the violation exists."



—Seth, NoPR, Chapter 8: Session 634, January 22, 1973

Thanks. I reviewed briefly that section. I understand that "violation" is related to the "natural guilt" which acts like a balancing force, and which is contrasted with "artificial guilt" which is detrimental but "still highly creative in its way".

• Artificial guilt is still highly creative in its way, an offshoot made in man's image as his conscious mind began to consider and play upon the natural innocent guilt that originally implied no punishment.

"Thou shell not violate" ... I couldn't find (quickly) who makes the judgement, what is the correction, and who executes it.

For example in that paragraph Seth/Jane talks about overpopulation being a violation, and that giving birth during overpopulation times is a violation.

There is also some related talk about "grace", which makes me wonder ...

I think these are some religious overtones, and I think that they need to be taken (as all the Seth material in fact) as a layered symbolism, from which everybody should interpret according to their individual evolvement needs.

As in the above quote: "that originally implied no punishment" ...

The word "originally" makes no sense. It implies that "in distant past times" (this is inconsistent with Seth's simultaneous time concept) something was done at humanity level, that later was changed. By who? God?

To me that is a distortion, as the idea embraced by some people that all-that-is is some kind of god, with attributes similar to what people call god. There is no more god, than I am the god of the cell of my body, and I definitely don't think at that level, and don't get directly involved.

This all-that-is assimilation with a god is contradicted by the sections about Seth 2, who is an entity at much superior level of evolvement, who was involved in the dreaming of the physical-reality and who is so far removed that he doesn't understand it (anymore), and who is definitely not involved into the physical-reality dealings, and who is not all-that-is.

I think that "violation" is a misnomer. I think that each one of us (as personality) goes through lessons and tests, that we learn or not, that we pass or not, and when we fail we keep facing them again and again, usually in a different guise.

I think that each one of us is guided by an inner-guide, who is a non-reincarnational entity (like Seth), who is interested only in our individual evolvement as personality, and not in our physical life (it is like a sub-teacher that supervises you in school).

Guiding help with our physical choices can be obtained only intuitively, by accessing our inner-senses, which at our level as physical-beings are quite rudimentary, and not from our inner-guide.

[Mark M]

inavalan wrote:


'As in the above quote: "that originally implied no punishment" ...

'The word "originally" makes no sense. It implies that "in distant past times" (this is inconsistent with Seth's simultaneous time concept) something was done at humanity level, that later was changed. By who? God?'

I think you are misreading what is meant.

First off, punishment was never intended.

For instance:

"In a simultaneous time, punishment makes no sense. The punishment as an event, and the event for which you were being punished, exist at once; and since there is no past, present and future, you could just as well say that the punishment came first."

—NoPR Part One: Chapter 9: Session 636, January 29, 1973

Even mere humans are learning that restorative justice is more effective than punitive justice.

I think Seth means "originally" as in what "God" intended/still intends.

Humans came up with artificial guilt and its complications.

As for contradictions, in my view, "overrationalization" does not help matters.

"This is difficult to explain, for these concepts themselves exist beyond verbalization. Some seeming (underlined) contradictions are bound to occur."

—Seth, NotP Chapter 6: Session 774, May 3, 1976

[Mark M]

A puzzle when rationality is applied:

Jane and Rob were counterparts.

Jane and Sue Watkins were counterparts.

Rob and Sue were not counterparts.

[inavalan]

inavalan wrote:


'As in the above quote: "that originally implied no punishment" ...

'The word "originally" makes no sense. It implies that "in distant past times" (this is inconsistent with Seth's simultaneous time concept) something was done at humanity level, that later was changed. By who? God?'

I think you are misreading what is meant.

First off, punishment was never intended.

For instance:

"In a simultaneous time, punishment makes no sense. The punishment as an event, and the event for which you were being punished, exist at once; and since there is no past, present and future, you could just as well say that the punishment came first."

—NoPR Part One: Chapter 9: Session 636, January 29, 1973

Even mere humans are learning that restorative justice is more effective than punitive justice.

I think Seth means "originally" as in what "God" intended/still intends.

Humans came up with artificial guilt and its complications.

As for contradictions, in my view, "overrationalization" does not help matters.

"This is difficult to explain, for these concepts themselves exist beyond verbalization. Some seeming (underlined) contradictions are bound to occur."

—Seth, NotP Chapter 6: Session 774, May 3, 1976

You misunderstood my point: "originally" implies that a change happened, or in that case a change was made by somebody; that is an inconsistency with basic concepts of the Seth material, in my view.

I was also saying that punishment is likely a human interpretation. I didn't advocate for punishment, as you seem to have understood.

I repeatedly said that there can be no argument about how one interprets the Seth material because it is multi-layered symbolism, and everybody can understand only from his level of evolvement (not making any hierarchy here). Everybody should intuitively interpret the material by themselves, and not rely on others' interpretation, not even Jane's.

I disagree with your quote that it can't be explained, as it is "beyond verbalization". This is about intuitive interpretation, not about rationalizations. It is about the meaning behind the words, behind the obvious. So misunderstood my point there too.

It is normal for people to sometimes misinterpret what you said, but it is frustrating. It is even more frustrating when people use a "corrective" tone, because  they're convinced they're right and you are wrong.

EDIT: Surely, because you might believe that what Seth said has one true meaning (even if you can't verbalize it, as it seems to be your, and Jane's opinion), you might interpret my statements as attempts to correct you, but I assure you that that isn't my intention. The nuance is in that I believe you can't correct somebody else's interpretation, while it seems that you believe that to be possible.

[inavalan]

A puzzle when rationality is applied:

Jane and Rob were counterparts.

Jane and Sue Watkins were counterparts.

Rob and Sue were not counterparts.

Maybe this works like with cousins: counterparts once removed ...

Or maybe it doesn't matter, because Jane, Sue and Rob are personalities, with their limited scope, single incarnations.

When you die, your primary focus moves away from the personality that was your primary focus. There are many good analogies, but maybe the analogy between your incarnations and you in each day of your life, is a clearer one: none of those "you" disappeared, but you aren't them either, although in some respect you are.

[Mark M]

inavalan wrote:

"I didn't advocate for punishment, as you seem to have understood."

I didn't at all intend to convey such.

"beyond verbalization"

I can accept that; ineffable's the word.

[inavalan]

inavalan wrote:

"I didn't advocate for punishment, as you seem to have understood."

I didn't at all intend to convey such.

"beyond verbalization"

I can accept that; ineffable's the word.

See my last reply to you on the other thread.

[Mark M]

Two leaked stories from the Pentagon have exposed the lies of mainstream media about Russia in Ukraine.

Another example of mainstream media not being your friend.

https://consortiumnews.com/2022/03/23/pentagon-drops-truth-bombs-to-stave-off-war-with-russia/

[Sena]

[inavalan]

Two polls that show that
 we create our reality,
 that we're poor at it,
 which explains why are still here ...

[inavalan]

Two leaked stories from the Pentagon have exposed the lies of mainstream media about Russia in Ukraine.

Another example of mainstream media not being your friend.

https://consortiumnews.com/2022/03/23/pentagon-drops-truth-bombs-to-stave-off-war-with-russia/

That seems a decent news site, at least from their "about" section:

• From the Late Founder and Editor Robert Parry: When we founded Consortiumnews.com in 1995 – as the first investigative news magazine based on the Internet – there was already a crisis building in the U.S. news media. The mainstream media was falling into a pattern of groupthink on issue after issue, often ignoring important factual information because it didn't fit with what all the Important People knew to be true.
• Journalist Robert Parry
• Indeed, that was the original reason that I turned to what was then a new media platform to create a home for well-reported stories and to challenge the many misguided conventional wisdoms.
• As one of the reporters who helped expose the Iran-Contra scandal for The Associated Press in the mid-1980s, I was distressed by the silliness and propaganda that had come to pervade American journalism. I feared, too, that the decline of the U.S. press foreshadowed disasters that would come when journalists failed to alert the public about impending dangers.
• Also by 1995, documents were emerging that put the history of the 1980s in a new and more troubling light. Yet, there were fewer and fewer media outlets interested in that history. The memories of Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush were enveloped in warm-and-fuzzy myths that represented another kind of danger: false history that could lead to mistaken political judgments in the future.
• Some of our early articles reexamined important chapters of the 1980s (such as the "October Surprise" controversy from Election 1980 and evidence of Nicaraguan contra-cocaine trafficking).
• Though we have struggled with funding – surviving for more than two decades through a combination of our own frugality and the generosity of our readers – we have managed to produce groundbreaking journalism on many of the most significant issues of the day, including national security, foreign policy, politics and the environment.
• We also looked at the underlying problems of modern democracy, particularly the insidious manipulation of citizens by government propaganda and the accomplice role played by mainstream media. Rather than encouraging diversity in analyses especially on topics of war and peace, today's mainstream media takes a perverse pride in excluding responsible, alternative views.
• It's as if The New York Times, The Washington Post, CNN and the others have learned nothing from the disaster of the Iraq War when they pushed the groupthink about WMD and betrayed their responsibilities to the American people and the people of the world. Despite all the death, destruction and destabilization caused by the Iraq invasion, there was almost no accountability in the U.S. press corps, with many of the worst offenders still holding down prominent jobs and still engaging in the same terrible journalism.
• When I was a young reporter, I was taught that there were almost always two sides to a story and often more. I was expected to seek out those alternative views, not dismiss them or pretend they didn't exist. I also realized that finding the truth often required digging beneath the surface and not just picking up the convenient explanation sitting out in the open.
• But the major Western news outlets began to see journalism differently. It became their strange duty to shut down questioning of the Official Story, even when the Official Story had major holes and made little sense, even when the evidence went in a different direction and serious analysts were disputing the groupthink.
• Looking back over the past two decades, I wish I could say that the media trend that we detected in the mid-1990s had been reversed. But, if anything, it's grown worse. The major Western news outlets now conflate the discrete difficulties from made-up "fake news" and baseless "conspiracy theories" with responsible dissenting analyses. All get thrown into the same pot and subjected to disdain and ridicule.
• We have seen travesties, such as legendary investigative journalist Seymour Hersh having to take his important story debunking the Obama administration's claims about the Syria-Sarin case of 2013 to the London Review of Books because his normal outlets in the United States wouldn't run his exposé.
• Now, even as the fate of the world becomes more tenuous amid a resumption of Cold War tensions between the West and Russia, we are seeing the Western media engaging in a self-inflicted blindness that has left the West's citizens blind as well. This dilemma – this crisis in democracy – has made the role of Consortiumnews even more essential today than it may have been in 1995.
• Robert Parry, Editor[/quote]

[inavalan]

[video]

That's propaganda.

How stupid can people be to believe that anybody could win a nuclear war? Like with the pandemic, vaccines, mandates, ... How can people still believe politicians and main stream media?

We could not wake up any morning now. A nuclear war wouldn't last a day. Even zones not directly hit (around the whole globe) wouldn't be livable for years. Probably for those people who'd still survive the first hours it would be more horrific than immediately dying.

A hypersonic missiles take a few minutes to reach any point on the globe.

Moscow to New York 4680 miles (7,531 km)

Russia's Kinzhal missile travels at 7,672 mph (for reference: a US Tomahawk's maximum speed is 550 mph). China successfully tested hypersonic missiles too. No Western power has anything comparable yet, and the most optimistic target to have something is 2030 (!).

Propaganda is a powerful tool, as beliefs and expectations are too, but in physical, at our level of evolvement and the current level of mass fear, anger, hate, the nuclear weapons have no match.

[inavalan]

This was published on Feb 23, 2022:

President Zelensky Suggests Ukraine May Pursue Nuclear Weapons To Counter Russia, Putin Responds
By  Ryan Saavedra
Feb 23, 2022

     https://www.dailywire.com/news/president-zelensky-suggests-ukraine-may-pursue-nuclear-weapons-to-counter-russia-putin-responds

Here there is the full speech:

Speech by the President of Ukraine at the 58th Munich Security Conference
19 February 2022

     https://www.president.gov.ua/en/news/vistup-prezidenta-ukrayini-na-58-j-myunhenskij-konferenciyi-72997

On Feb 24, 2022 Russia entered Ukraine.

[Mark M]

Petition urging negotiation:

https://www.codepink.org/nonoflyzone

[Mark M]

A media watchdog group:

https://fair.org/

[inavalan]

According to my understanding of the Seth material, events we experience are a method of expression, analogously to the words in a language. So, we should observe them, and interpret them intuitively.

Taking the current Ukraine situation (which isn't as described in this thread's title), we could interpret it from different perspectives, not judge it intellectually or emotionally, but to understand the symbolism embedded in it, the lesson appropriate for each of us individually; our individual lessons are different, tailored to our individual needs to learn.

When I interpret what's happening to another, it is a lesson for me. When I interpret what's happening to me, it is a test for me, and a grading. In both cases, a guidance ensues: what should I do.

One of the most obvious events, as I see it, is the predicament of the Ukrainian people. From a Sethian point of view, their thoughts and emotions materialized in this, and there, there are lessons to intuitively identify for me, and guidance to fo!low. For others, including those people, there are other lessons and tests, different than for me.

Surely, the Ukrainian people is made of individuals, and each one has brought it on themselves in some specific way. The perception that this happens because of an external will, or by chance, isn't Sethian.

[inavalan]

This is an interesting read from "The Washington Post", which nobody can accuse for not being a loyal tool ...

     https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/03/16/ukraine-zelensky-information-war/


     National Security
Outmatched in military might, Ukraine has excelled in the information war
     by Missy Ryan, Ellen Nakashima, Michael Birnbaum and David L. Stern
     March 16, 2022

• ...   "They are really excellent in stratcom — media, info ops, and also psy-ops," a senior NATO official said. "I hope Western countries take their lead from them."
       Western officials say that while they cannot independently verify much of the information that Kyiv puts out about the evolving battlefield situation, including casualty figures for both sides, it nonetheless represents highly effective stratcom.
       One State Department official said that Ukraine's approach amounted to "basic wartime communication." ...

To me, the lesson is that this "event" experienced by Ukrainians is about hate, no matter how justified may seem, bringing more hate, eventually degenerating into fear, and into fear of survival (there are Seth quotes tying those together).

The guidance is: don't do it! Watch your emotions: don't hate!

It is easy to respond emotionally and yield to hate and anger toward those that media points to as being the bad guys, and to be fearful of what might happen to the world, to you and to your family (inflation, collapse of the economy and social systems, war, nuclear war, death). Don't submit to those who push you on that path! They don't know what they're doing. You, as a Sethian, (should) know better.

It is likely that if this hateful rhetoric, with its appeal to hateful emotions, doesn't tone down, the Western world especially (including their populations) are headed toward a lot of suffering, situations that will cause them more hate and anger, that will end up in fear for life.

[Bora137]

I agree. This is our ultimate challenge.

"Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering." - Yoda

Destroy fear within yourself. Fear has no place in realms of higher consciousness, both physical and non. The more you fear the worse the world gets. If you want to stop the war turn off your TV and just help those you meet through your day. Bring up the vibration of the planet. Then war can't take place. 

[LarryH]

If you want to stop the war turn off your TV...

Bora, I agree with most of your post except for the part that I have quoted, at least for myself. I have no desire to completely shut off the news from Ukraine. I choose to focus on the best of humanity coming from that area - the generosity of the Polish people and others in dealing with the refugees, the medical personnel who choose to stay behind to work in hospitals to care for the ill and wounded, the Ukrainians who have shown mercy to captured Russian soldiers, such those who allowed a sobbing soldier to call his relatives in Russia on a cell phone as he sipped tea, Ukrainian citizens nonviolently standing in the way of the movement of Russian tanks, the brave Russian woman who held up the sign during a TV broadcast denouncing her network's propaganda, and the thousands of other Russians who have risked their freedom to publicly protest the war.

[Deb]

I also have been watching as much of the world (at least those countries that always get involved) tries to support Ukraine and show their displeasure of Russia's actions with what I consider peaceful actions—such as sanctions rather than joining in the fighting. There have been, from what I can tell, a LOT of money donated for food and supplies to help the Ukrainian civilians. Unfortunately some of the sanctions may harm the Russian citizens rather than the actual people who are directing this whole thing. I say "may" because there are some reports such as Russians do not have access to their money in banks, the stores are empty, etc. And yet I've seen other reports saying this is not true and life in Russia goes on as normal. I have a friend in St Pete Russia who has a very different take from what we are hearing about what's going on. He is not a fan of Putin, but he says there is more involved than what we are told. I will ask him where he gets his information.

It seems Oliver Stone produced a documentary in 2016, Ukraine on Fire. It's a history of Ukraine being used as "a pathway for Western powers as they attempt to conquer the East" and how the people have dealt with it. From IMDB: "For centuries, it has been at the center of a tug-of-war between powers seeking to control its rich lands and access to the Black Sea." I have not seen the documentary yet.

I'm attaching a PDF of Dr. Joseph Mercola's analysis of the documentary—there were a few surprises for me, such as historical US involvement and yes, Ukrainian Nazis. Dr. Mercola is a controversial medical doctor. He's into natural health products, so I've known about him for quite some time. Most of the time he makes sense to me. I don't always agree with what he says, but I thought this would be safe enough to share here as food for thought. I have to say that I'm always skeptical about "news," "truth" and "stories," but I am willing to at least ponder things that go against my beliefs. And with personal and probable realities, I also have to consider that there is not one solid truth other than "you make your own reality."

I've recently become been interested in Ukrainian and Russian history as far as invasions, and I found this brief video from the Hindustan Times, a brief history of Putin-led invasions since the fall of the Soviet Union. Just a day before the Mercola article came out. What a coincidence, lol.

Ukraine has a long history of being invaded by other countries. Russia has a long history of invading other countries. My grandparents on both sides came to America in the 1890s from Russo-Poland and Russo-Austria -- countries occupied by Russia at the time. These wars and landgrabs are old conflicts/patterns that are still being acted out.

It feels to me like Seth's explanation of diseases... you may find a medication or doctor that "cures" your illness, but if the (psychic and spiritual) root of the conflict is not dealt with, something else will crop up in its place. History is repeating itself and the world needs to watch and learn. How many wars will it take?

[inavalan]

For comparison, US' activity in the same field (see attached)



You cannot view this attachment.

You cannot view this attachment.

You cannot view this attachment.

[inavalan]

And, as we're at: great accomplishments of our times ...


You cannot view this attachment.

[Deb]

And, as we're at: great accomplishments of our times ...

There was a time when doctors pushed cigarette smoking. Woody Allen's Sleeper was spot on.



BTW I misjudged Putin, he's really a sweet and charming guy.  I also heard Zelenskyy is negotiating speaking at the Oscars. This all has such a surreal feel to it ala The Truman Show. War in Ukraine? Nonsense. Ha, ha, we made you look.

[inavalan]

...

Woody was less intuitive than Orwell, but still ...

• 2:49 Resistance to mind reprogramming will be
  2:52 exterminated for the good of the state
  
  2:53 What kind of government you guys got
  2:56 here this is worse than California

https://youtu.be/D2fYguIX17Q?t=169

[strangerthings]

"You have heard terms like "The Brotherhood of Man," or, as Ruburt might say, "The Brother-Womanhood of Women" (humorously). But at any given time, in your terms — at any given time — the population of the earth is made up of counterparts ... and so when you kill an enemy, you are killing a version of yourself ... For as you are members of a physical species, you are also members of a psychic kind of counterpart reality; and this membership straddles races or countries, or states or politics."
—UR2 Appendix 22: (For Session 724)

[inavalan]

"You have heard terms like "The Brotherhood of Man," or, as Ruburt might say, "The Brother-Womanhood of Women" (humorously). But at any given time, in your terms — at any given time — the population of the earth is made up of counterparts ... and so when you kill an enemy, you are killing a version of yourself ... For as you are members of a physical species, you are also members of a psychic kind of counterpart reality; and this membership straddles races or countries, or states or politics."
—UR2 Appendix 22: (For Session 724)

I don't understand clearly the concept of "counterparts".

In some places Seth calls "counterpart" the inner-self, or an electrical body, or existences in other systems.

It is difficult for me to interpret passages like

• "in your terms — at any given time — the population of the earth is made up of counterparts "
• "as you are members of a physical species, you are also members of a psychic kind of counterpart reality"

My understanding is that "physically" each one of us operates 100% in a physical-reality created by their own subconscious. These physical-realities are disjunctive. But from here to say that

• "when you kill an enemy, you are killing a version of yourself"

is a stretch. Besides, you can't "kill" anybody, as the "dying" of an outer-self can be decided only by that personality for itself (as I understand Seth).

[strangerthings]

@Deb

In your post you quoted

"Thoughts of peace, particularly in the middle of chaos, take great energy. People who can ignore the physical evidence of wars and purposely think thoughts of peace will triumph — but in your terminology the word "meek" has come to mean spineless, inadequate, lacking energy. In Christ's time, the phrase about the meek inheriting the earth implied the energetic use of affirmation, of love and peace."
—NoPR Part Two: Chapter 21: Session 674, July 2, 1973



This right here !
This right here !

This is what I cling to, to help me get through.

It isnt always easy but so far for me its like a new muscle getting a workout.

Its part of my new blocks that block my view so-to-speak

[strangerthings]

"Now this first island is very clever indeed, and so it sends its spirit wandering to the closest counterpart, and says: "You are myself, but without sand or palm trees.""
—UR2 Section 5: Session 726 December 16, 1974

Your world is yourself pushed out. (Neville)

"Nothing exists outside the psyche, however, that does not exist within it, and there is no unknown world that does not have its psychological or psychic counterpart."
—UR2 Appendix 21: (For Session 721)

[Mark M]

Jane's trance had been deep on a very humid night. She now told me that while delivering the World War II data for the book, she had been quite aware of another, unspoken, channel from Seth.
That one had been concerned exclusively with the Second World War, Jane said with some surprise, and had contained amazingly complete information on the war's origins and the individual, racial, and reincarnational aspects of it as experienced by the peoples of various nations, whether or not said nations had been directly involved in it. The information had even considered the consequences flowing from the intensified use of technology by the societies of the world after the war. "All of that was coming from that way," Jane pointed to her lower left. She spent perhaps ten minutes describing some of the categories inherent in the material and repeatedly said that she wished we had a record of it. At the same time, although the data was available, we didn't want to lay this book aside to get it.

--NoPR (Sess. 673? I grabbed it off someone's FB post)

[Mark M]

inavalan's post of the US warmaking stats are unfortunately too little known amongst US/Americans.

When I "talk like that," some think I must "hate America."

Sorry to such folks, but those stats are the truth and the corporate/mainstream media lies by omission in this way.

Individuals and other nations can be outraged at Russia's invasion of Ukraine, but the US government cannot as it lives in a glass house.

I submit that Hitler would envy US military power and what the US gets away with.

With something like 800 US military bases in a majority of the world's nations, that is empire.

For how many nations have bases in the US?

A whistleblower is in prison for inconveniently revealing that something like 90% of drone strikes hit innocents.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Hale

This led to:

Noam Chomsky: Obama's Drone Program is 'The Most Extreme Terrorist Campaign of Modern Times'
Famed linguist takes aim at western hypocrisy on terrorism.

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2015/01/19/noam-chomsky-obamas-drone-program-most-extreme-terrorist-campaign-modern-times

This Chomsky quote was before Trump who increased the use of drones above that of Obama who increased it above that of GW Bush who went to war with Iraq and Afghanistan because he wanted to be a war president. Talk about vanity! (BTW, Afghanistan was willing to turn bin Laden over to a third country if the US could provide evidence of his guilt, a reasonable enough request. When Obama after bin Laden was killed called that justice, that was wrong; justice is a trial.)

I understand that Biden has put a pause on drone strikes.

I hope that is true and that he keeps to it.

[strangerthings]

I think an important question is: Where do we war mentally?

Do we catch our judgemental selves?
Do we catch those nasty thoughts of hatred?
Do we catch ourselves projecting blame?
Do we allow our imagination to project affirmative war or ....do we redirect it, comfort it, send it love and thanks?

"Am I, in the quicksand?"
"Am I, choosing outcomes of data from a state of fear, anger, shame ?"

When I find "evil" in the world do I make more "evil" in the world?

Do I take the time out daily to connect with peace in the world? Do I then turn the news on or internet news on hours later negating my work?

How can I as an individual contribute to peace?

I think paying attention to our thoughts 24/7 is one of the things we can do. And to question those thoughts.

( Since there are a lot of newsy things here I am going to plug Byron Katie here. Judge your neighbor worksheet.)

Not too long ago I delved into an area of life that... well it questioned my mountain of beliefs in a way I never thought possible. I kept asking is it true? Can I absolutely know this is true? One thing I learned was that I had reached a point where it really didnt matter as much as it did that I subjected by precious precious self to a battery of abuses.

Granted I pulled through it, it was not something constructive but destructive. It was not loving and gentle. It was harsh and grotesque. A horror shit show to be frank.

We are all ...

Worthy deserving people. We all have a right to our lives in this universe. We have a right to be because we are.


I discovered that reality IS what you make it.

You get what you focus on there is no other main rule.

I do forgive myself. It took some time but I really do forgive myself. 


And the more I thought about the horror shit show, the more I kept it alive in my world.

Its like looking at a photo of an abused child and thinking over and over this child is abused. That child is abused everytime someone sees the photo.

Much like our memories of perhaps something traumatic in our lives. We keep it alive.

You get what you focus on there is no other main rule.

Everytime you think of war sonewhere you keep it going.

Thats how the news works and I suspect at their higher levels they know this! They understand the psychology of news reporting.

You are a being of immense power and you create your reality totally.