Another Mass Event: Putin vs The World

[strangerthings]

@inavalan

Nail hammer head!

"Glorification"

[strangerthings]

"There should never be a word in any language that means repentance. There should only be a word that means, "I bless," for when you bless you do not need to repent. And when you accept a blessing, you do not need to repent. For when you realize how to accept a blessing, there is nothing to repent. Love of All That Is requires simply that you become open as air, for when you are open as air then the joy of All That Is flows through you indiscriminately, and there is nothing to repent. You only need repentance when you do not know joy. For within joy and within All That Is there is only glory that is only consciousness and song. There is only blessedness."
—ECS1 ESP Class Session, February 25, 1969

(Pardon moi I shall post this in 2 places)

[strangerthings]

I am looking for something specific and this popped up:

"Nationalistic glory in killing his enemies."

Shaming people doing this is glorifying shame.

When do we glorify mutual integrity in place of? I think when we redirect our, unkind to self or others, thoughts, toward a mutual integrity that frees the stress part holding particular thoughts and believing them to be true. Practicing this requires us to pay attention to our thoughts and maintain maintenance.

Freedom requires freedom.
I think right there I find this open as air, or "flexibility" ringing a liberty bell.

Also, there is this, which is a part of my affirmations and blessings taken from a Seth CD:

"Thank myself for the joys of my being and the glory of my days."  ( he goes on to say bless your smallest cells of your ear, etc.)

[inavalan]

I am looking for something specific and this popped up:

"Nationalistic glory in killing his enemies."

Shaming people doing this is glorifying shame.

When do we glorify mutual integrity in place of? I think when we redirect our, unkind to self or others, thoughts, toward a mutual integrity that frees the stress part holding particular thoughts and believing them to be true. Practicing this requires us to pay attention to our thoughts and maintain maintenance.

Freedom requires freedom.
I think right there I find this open as air, or "flexibility" ringing a liberty bell.

Also, there is this, which is a part of my affirmations and blessings taken from a Seth CD:

"Thank myself for the joys of my being and the glory of my days."  ( he goes on to say bless your smallest cells of your ear, etc.)

Would you mind explaining what you meant here?

• "Nationalistic glory in killing his enemies."
  Shaming people doing this is glorifying shame.

I don't understand what is your position. Please reformulate it. Is killing enemies a glory or a shame, or neither. What is that which you call "glorifying shame"?

I strongly agree with:

• Freedom requires freedom.

on the lines I understand it, but I'm not sure what you meant.

I think that you can't fight for another's freedom when your freedom is restricted (as it seems to be the trend in this "spacious present" we're experiencing).

I also strongly agree with

• pay attention to our thoughts

in the sense that one has to pay attention to their thoughts, as thoughts together with emotions, beliefs, expectations, create our perceived reality.

Meditation usually recommends to watch your thoughts and let them go. That may help in reducing your mind chatter, but there is so much more that you can find in your thoughts: your future reality!

You have to get in the habit of paying attention to your thoughts, and when you don't like them immediately change your thoughts to something you like!

[Mark M]

"...your  own preoccupation with arms, as a country..." --Seth, Nov 1972 ESP class

This is really depraved:

https://portside.org/2022-03-07/arms-industry-sees-ukraine-conflict-opportunity-not-crisis

[strangerthings]

@inavalan

Leaders who kill their enemies are glorifed.

I was looking for something in the Seth books about glory and that popped up. https://nowdictation.com/q/book:tps2+heading:'deleted+session+august+30+1972'+Glory/

Turns out what I was looking for is on a cd.

Glorifying shame...

Getting off on shaming, like bullies have supporters or some school teachers, significant others and extreme side? Witchhunts. Shame to murder is still not a solution for an individual.

One could shame a "leader" for not killing. Or for killing. One is still avoiding the interior looking glass. "What is coming at me is coming from within me. "

Shame has electromagnetic momentum.  ( leading you to your self written traffic tickets lol)

[Mark M]

How the US Could Solve the Ukraine Crisis Tomorrow

https://www.commondreams.org/views/2022/03/07/how-us-could-solve-ukraine-crisis-tomorrow

[Mark M]

When opening your wallet:

https://www.give.org/news/growing-needs-in-ukraine

https://www.give.org/news/wise-giving-wednesday-tips-on-donations-to-assist-ukraine-relief-efforts

[Mark M]

These are Russia's new demands now, according to Reuters:

1) Ukraine cease military action
2) Ukraine change its constitution to enshrine neutrality [no admission to NATO]
3) Ukraine acknowledge Crimea as Russian territory
4) Ukraine recognize the separatist republics of Donetsk and Lugansk as independent states

from https://davidswanson.org/russias-demands-have-changed/

Since Russia is a nuclear power, negotiating these is a safer bet than trying to institute no-fly zones, shipping weapons to Ukraine and so forth.

With nuclear war, everyone loses/dies.

[Mark M]

https://davidswanson.org/30-nonviolent-things-russia-could-have-done-and-30-nonviolent-things-ukraine-could-do/

[Mark M]

In TPS, Bk 7, Sess 12/8/1983, after Rob asks Seth about TV news re: nuclear war: "Your world is not going to destroy itself. In terms of probabilities, the world is both saved and lost. Those who believe in peace will find it, and a world in which peace reigns."

[inavalan]

In TPS, Bk 7, Sess 12/8/1983, after Rob asks Seth about TV news re: nuclear war: "Your world is not going to destroy itself. In terms of probabilities, the world is both saved and lost. Those who believe in peace will find it, and a world in which peace reigns."

What draws my attention from that quote is that "the world is both saved and lost", and that "Those who believe in peace will find it". To me this says that it isn't a matter of having or not having a nuclear war, but of individual choice (through one's own beliefs, only) of "experiencing" a nuclear war or not. (surely "experiencing" here is an euphemism). In the hyperspace of physical reality, there are all the possibilities. Each individual makes free choices at conscious level, including of changing their beliefs, which are the basis of the physical reality they experience (see session #622).

Rob comments further in the same Dec 8 transcript: "(Seth's comments re war and probabilities evidently mean that in his view Jane and I have moved into a probable reality where nuclear war will not happen. At least I hope so."

Here Rob doesn't say that he understood that there won't be a nuclear war, but that Jane and he "moved into a probable reality where nuclear war will not happen". Others contemporaries of Jane and Rob, through their choices, moved to a reality in which there was a nuclear war. Now some of us make similar choices.

It is also interesting that in spite of Jane's health continuous decline, they were so much concerned about a nuclear holocaust. It says a lot about human nature, about fear. That fear was definitely counterproductive to Jane's healing. One's fear of death yields one's death, one path or another.

From the same session:

• I have some comments concerning Ruburt's health.
  The healing processes have considerably quickened, so that the healing of the ulcers will very soon (underlined) be an accomplished fact. They are all rapidly healing.
  The body will not have to use its energy very much longer in healing sores —thus freeing even more energy to set to work on the joints and muscles themselves, and the ligaments. And as the progress improves old bodily habits are also disrupted, and serve their purposes no longer.
  (Pause.) Tell Ruburt that his spirits can indeed rise easily. That his natural emotions are beginning to sense their new freedom—so he has only to go along, and not fear any periods of blueness. These will gradually disappear almost completely as his improvements continue.
  

.
This is striking considering both the reality of Jane's health decline, and of what we know that followed (in the reality I moved to). It sounds like cheer-leading, and not as assessment of fact. Maybe in the reality in which Jane moved, she really got better.

[inavalan]

Seth's calling Jane Ruburt is like saying "in 'Pretty Woman' Julia Roberts went on a shopping spree where she had been rejected earlier".

[Bora137]

I think Seth is definitely trying to proactively shift Jane's beliefs about her health. If I was Seth this is what I would do.

[inavalan]

I think Seth is definitely trying to proactively shift Jane's beliefs about her health. If I was Seth this is what I would do.

What I was thinking is that it doesn't matter much if one affirms that they want to be healthy, and think in terms of being healthy, while are afraid of an impeding nuclear war, or a pandemic, or such. Fear is fear. Fear of death is fear of death. Intellectualized beliefs are weaker than emotional beliefs, and fear generated by the survival instinct is stronger than a will for alleviating pain and suffering.

[Mark M]

It wasn't just Jane and Rob concerned about nuclear war in 1983.

This movie was current and got people thinking:

The Day After (1983)
The effects of a devastating nuclear holocaust [story centered] on small-town residents of eastern Kansas.

[Mark M]

The overall trend of Jane's health was "worse and worse," but on the way "down," there were brief periods of improvement then setback, and I credit Seth with at least trying to plant hope.

[Mark M]

...I contend that if the goal was to minimize human suffering, the violent response to Putin's violent invasion has proved counterproductive. Thousands of Ukrainian and Russian fighters have died. The frustrated Russian invaders have turned to indiscriminate urban bombing. Civilian deaths are mounting. Millions have fled their homes.

Meanwhile, individual Europeans and North Americans hurry to join the mutual slaughter. Prominent voices plead for NATO aircraft to enter the fray. They sympathize with Ukrainians, yet call for increased suffering. They don't know what else to do.

In 1940, Adolf Hitler sent German forces into Denmark. Understanding that military resistance was futile, the Danes—without nonviolence training—opted for protest, noncooperation, and sabotage. Their cities weren't destroyed. Casualties were relatively minimal. The Danes endured five years of humiliating German occupation. They survived.

Imagine the Ukrainians doing likewise. Indeed, protest rallies have begun in Russian-occupied cities. It might violate your sense of justice and honor—there's the war germ again—but perhaps nonviolent resistance to foreign occupation is better than mutual slaughter and whatever follows.

Since we're just imagining, we can do better. In 1994, the Ukrainian government renounced its nuclear weapons. What if the government had eliminated its military altogether and replaced it with nonviolent training for all? We've seen small groups of unarmed Ukrainians turn back Russian tanks; imagine millions—men, women, children—with the courage and knowledge for nonviolent resistance. Sympathetic foreigners could join them without worsening the situation.

Of course, since an anti-military Ukrainian government would have shunned NATO's advances, Putin might have left Ukraine unmolested. Putin, you see, is just a vector; the real enemy is war itself.

While we're at it, imagine nonviolent international peacekeepers—no guns, no blue helmets—who can intervene between parties in conflict, reducing fear and dehumanization, bearing witness. Nonviolent Peaceforce already does this on a small scale; more such non-governmental groups are needed. Then, when a warlord orders a foreign invasion, tens of thousands of unarmed civilians, from around the world, could converge to stand in the way.

"Nonviolent defenders could never stop an invading army." That's the war germ. But many bewildered and remorseful Russian soldiers quickly surrendered in Ukraine. Imagine how many more would have abandoned their posts if, rather than dodging Ukrainian bullets, they had found themselves face-to-face with a festive parade of civilians expressing concern and friendship, refusing to become infected with the dehumanizing desire to kill, but also refusing to give way.

Just to be clear: Nonviolence isn't passivity and doesn't involve flight. Nonviolence is confronting your opponent with courageous compassion. Nonviolence requires the willingness to suffer, even die—just like soldiering—but without the willingness to cause harm.

Nonviolence promises a cure for the war disease. Imagine if masses of trained nonviolent defenders had minimized casualties in Ukraine and demoralized—no, re-moralized—the Russian invaders. One such highly visible success would prove to many skeptics that killing is not the only viable method of national defense—an important step toward total delegitimization of murderous conflict resolution. The first country that institutionalizes unarmed civilian defense will change the world.

Alternatively, we can keep hoping the disease will cure itself, that more slaughter will end all wars.

https://www.counterpunch.org/2022/03/16/the-root-problem-is-war-not-putin/

[inavalan]

...I contend ...

https://www.counterpunch.org/2022/03/16/the-root-problem-is-war-not-putin/

Two of the thoughts that crossed my mind reading your post:

• You don't know what's happening, neither on the ground there, nor behind closed doors. I had the experience to go through a similar violent event, and being there you don't know neither what's happening, nor why. you actually never know for sure. And in that situation there was no such obvious propaganda in the media, and there was no social media at the time, no internet.
• The peaceful approach usually doesn't work, neither with humans nor in nature. The Danes would still be occupied if they weren't liberated by others, many of whom lost their lives fighting Germany. In Eastern Ukraine there was a smoldering war going on, carried by the Ukrainian military against those Russian populations from 2014. The peace was never implemented.

Although we look at life as it is the general understanding, that's almost 180 degrees opposite to how Seth says the reality works. No one's reality is imposed by another if he / she doesn't give away the free will, the free choice.

I understand when you say "let's do", or "if people did", and such. I use those phrases, and I think in those terms too. But that isn't Sethian. It's difficult to change your beliefs; I know. Browse session 622!

[inavalan]

It wasn't just Jane and Rob concerned about nuclear war in 1983.

This movie was current and got people thinking:

The Day After (1983)
The effects of a devastating nuclear holocaust [story centered] on small-town residents of eastern Kansas.

Fear is fear. It doesn't matter to you if others are fearful or not. It doesn't matter if the fear is apparently justified. Your fear shapes your negative reality. You can't blame your experience on others. If Jane was afraid of war, that impacted her health and well-being.

[Deb]

I don't think there is a simple solution to this situation. I have a hard time seeing any other option right now than the way Ukraine is reacting to the assault by Russia. Reacting peacefully with no defensive action and the war would have been over the first day... but still with Ukrainian civilians and soldiers slaughtered, probably the government leaders too, and Ukraine would be annexed by Russia. Then which nation is next? Ukraine is not just defending Ukraine. On a personal level, someone physically attacks you in an alley somewhere. Do you fight back or just prepare to die? Being unenlightened, I would defend myself. And if a third party stepped in to help me, I would be grateful.

I don't feel Ukraine provoked the attack, Putin has had his eye on Ukraine for years. And it's hard for me to accept him seeing Ukraine as a threat to Russia—by the vast difference in land mass size alone plus Ukraine's lack of weaponry and no nukes. I feel a bully will continue to be a bully if he continues to get what he wants and there's nothing to deter him. The free world is trying to help Ukraine by providing supplies, weapons included, but not get involved directly with the fighting. Not the Sethian ideal of peace, but we are here to learn. Even Seth said if you see someone in need, you should not look the other way and say the person is just making their own reality. He said if we can help someone, we should. Where do we draw that line?

A bully will not change his ways if he always gets what he wants. Even a large amount of Russian citizens seem to be against what Putin is doing. I personally know a few people in Russia and they are disgusted with and shamed by him. They provide photos of peaceful protesters being arrested. It's hard for me to trust MSM at this point, there has been the usual share of propaganda, dishonesty, Photoshop and repurposed images.

Session 414 in Early Sessions 8 is pretty pertinent to what's going on, even though Seth was talking about the Kennedy and King assassinations. I can provide the entire session if someone wants to read it. Here's a bit:

"Strength does not come in national terms, real strength, by bullying
aggressive stance. But it does come when the people within a nation are
making an honest effort to bring about in physical reality the materialization
of their individual and mass ideals. The best that is in them, whatever their
point of development. The unity and strength is psychically recognized."

So these may be those people "making an effort." Again, we are here in F1 to learn. As the saying goes, the world is a stage. If looking at it from a Sethian view, Russia attacking Ukraine is playing out to make a statement and forcing the free world into an accelerated learning experience. It certainly has had a unifying effect. Hopefully when this is over Putin and others like himself will be shamed (if capable of it), and learn that countries unify when there is an aggressor like him.

Here's a blog post I came across recently which I thought was interesting. It talks about the reason why Putin may be the way he is. Personally I don't feel an unhappy childhood is an excuse. Many people had one, including myself, and we turned out ok. Maybe more compassionate because of it. A lot of them made careers out of helping others who had grown up in similar circumstances. Why some people use their misfortune to make the world a better place, and why others do just the opposite, is a mystery to me.

https://acestoohigh.com/2022/03/02/how-vladimir-putins-childhood-is-affecting-us-all/

[Mark M]

Actually, what the article I excerpted is saying is consonant with Seth:

"There will never be a justification for killing or violence."

—Seth, ECS1, ESP Class Session, January 21, 1969

Are you saying I cannot defend myself?

"Not at all. You could counter such an attack in several ways that do not involve killing. You would not be in such a hypothetical situation to begin with unless violent thoughts of your own, faced or unfaced, had attracted it to you. But once it is a fact, and according to the circumstances, many methods could be used. Because you consider aggression synonymous with violence, you may not understand that aggressive — forceful, active, mental or spoken — commands for peace could save your life in such a case; yet they could."

—Seth, NoPR, Chapter 8: Session 634, January 22, 1973

This book gives some examples of defusing what would otherwise be a violent incident:

Rosenberg, Marshall B. (2003). Nonviolent Communication: A Language of Life (2nd ed.). Encinitas, CA: PuddleDancer Press

1940–1943   Denmark   Danish resistance movement   During World War II, after the invasion of the Wehrmacht, the Danish government adopted a policy of official co-operation (and unofficial obstruction) which they called "negotiation under protest." Embraced by many Danes, the unofficial resistance included slow production, emphatic celebration of Danish culture and history, and bureaucratic quagmires.

1940–1945   Norway   Norwegian resistance movement   During World War II, Norwegian civil disobedience included preventing the Nazification of Norway's educational system, distributing of illegal newspapers, and maintaining social distance (an "ice front") from the German soldiers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonviolent_resistance

GENE SHARP'S 198 METHODS OF NONVIOLENT ACTION:

https://wri-irg.org/en/resources/2008/gene-sharps-198-methods-nonviolent-action

inavalan wrote:

"The peaceful approach usually doesn't work..."

"Ackerman offers two possible factors contributing to the recent decline in the success rate of nonviolent campaigns (***still higher than that for violent campaigns***)."

https://davidswanson.org/check-out-the-check-list-to-end-tyranny/

All that said, no one is saying the Ukraine and other fraught scenes are easy. They are clearly enormous  challenges.

Nonviolent resistance requires as much bravery as using weapons and in neither case is one's safety guaranteed.

Some Ukrainians are resisting nonviolently such as changing street signs and so forth.

[Mark M]

'(Just before the session, we saw a newscast of a congressional committee in Washington, with some well-known scientists testifying as to the probable aftereffects of nuclear war—how the instigator would also eventually destroy itself even if the attacked never fired a retaliatory strike at all. Because of temperature changes on the earth, and so forth.

'(I was appalled as what I was seeing began to sink in. So was Jane. "Do you think the human species is insane?" I asked her. We were watching grown men discuss the end of the species—with means given to politicians by science. "I wouldn't mind hearing your boy comment on this," I said to my wife.)'

All Seth said was already quoted:

"Your world is not going to destroy itself. In terms of probabilities, the world is both saved and lost. Those who believe in peace will find it, and a world in which peace reigns."

—TPS7 Deleted Session December 8, 1983

But:


"(To me [Rob Butts]) Since your birth a probability has occurred that you could have followed, in which your wars did not happen. There is another probability in which the Second World War ended in nuclear destruction, and you did not enter that one either. You chose 'this' probable reality in order to ask certain questions about the nature of man — seeing him where he wavered equally between creativity and destruction, knowledge and ignorance; but a point that contained potentials for the most auspicious kinds of development, in your eyes. The same applies to Ruburt."

—Seth, The Nature of the Psyche, Chapter 11: Session 797, March 14, 1977

The film I mentioned quite likely "instigated" the congressional hearing.

Even Reagan watched the film:

Effects on policymakers

After seeing the film, Ronald Reagan wrote that the film was very effective and left him depressed.
U.S. President Ronald Reagan watched the film more than a month before its screening on Columbus Day, October 10, 1983.[29] He wrote in his diary that the film was "very effective and left me greatly depressed",[30][26] and that it changed his mind on the prevailing policy on a "nuclear war".[31]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Day_After

[Mark M]

'Another small point here: Christ's dictum to turn the other cheek (Matthew 5:39, for instance) was a psychologically crafty method of warding off violence — not of accepting it. Symbolically it represented an animal showing its belly to an adversary. (Jane, as Seth, patted her midriff.) The remark was meant symbolically. On certain levels, it was the gesture of defeat that brought triumph and survival. It was not meant to be the cringing act of a martyr who said, "Hit me again," but represented a biologically pertinent statement, a communication of body language. Give us a moment... (Softly:) It would cleverly remind the attacker of the "old" communicative postures of the sane animals.'

—NoPR Part Two: Chapter 21: Session 673, June 27, 1973

Maybe it's my belief, but I think engaging in violence courts "karmic consequences" more so than nonviolence.

"There are laws of a sort that govern these matters. But you can mark my words: In one way or another, all debts are paid. These so-called debts are actually challenges to the particular personalities involved. The word debt implies guilt, and such a connotation is not my intention.

The sense of original sin, however, which unfortunately has been made so much of, is undoubtedly in part an inner recognition of debts of this sort, hanging over the personality at birth. But again there is no guilt in the terms usually applied to that word."

—TES1 Session 21 February 3, 1964

[Mark M]

When Germany reunified, Russia was promised that NATO would not expand further east. Clinton broke the promise as have successor presidents.

Biden's CIA director, William Burns, has been warning about the provocative effect of NATO expansion on Russia since 1995.

George Kennan made similar warnings as even did war criminal Henry Kissinger.

Even the miscreant president, Trump, wanted to leave NATO.

There is no more Warsaw Pact, why is there a NATO?

The "adults in the room" must have explained to Trump that U.S. arms merchants love NATO expansion -- and wars -- because that means arms sales. Raytheon CEO Greg Hayes was quoted as being optimistic about rising tensions in Eastern Europe saying that he "fully expects" that "we're going to see some benefit from it."

Putin actually once expressed interest in joining NATO. Somehow that fell through and now he has, like many U.S. presidents, become a war criminal with his invasion of Ukraine.

Before resorting to invasion, Putin actually had some reasonable demands entirely ignored by Biden.

What follows is from:

https://davidswanson.org/russias-demands-have-changed/

Here were Russia's demands for months starting in early December 2021:

Article 1: the parties should not strengthen their security at the expense of Russia's security;
Article 2: the parties will use  multilateral consultations and the NATO-Russia Council to address points of conflict;
Article 3: the parties reaffirm that they do not consider each other as adversaries and maintain a dialogue;
Article 4: the parties shall not deploy military forces and weaponry on the territory of any of the other states in Europe in addition to any forces that were deployed as of May 27, 1997;
Article 5: the parties shall not deploy land-based intermediate- and short-range missiles adjacent to the other parties;
Article 6: all member States of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization commit themselves to refrain from any further enlargement of NATO, including the accession of Ukraine as well as other States;
Article 7: the parties that are member States of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization shall not conduct any military activity on the territory of Ukraine as well as other States in the Eastern Europe, in the South Caucasus and in Central Asia; and
Article 8: the agreement shall not be interpreted as affecting the primary responsibility of the Security Council of the United Nations for maintaining international peace and security.

These were perfectly reasonable, just what the U.S. demanded when Soviet missiles were in Cuba, just what the U.S. would demand now if Russian missiles were in Canada, and ought to have simply been met, or at the very least treated as serious points to be respectfully considered.

[inavalan]

There is an HTML tag "s" that stands for stike-out, and needs to be removed. stike-out

You added after "fully expect" an s between square brackets.

[narvik2]

He sure does seem miserable in public.

yep, agree me too

[narvik2]

I agree, he really seems miserable

[narvik2]

That (my underlining) is a remarkable observation, and it is my experience too. Emotions always bring in one's reality situations that yield the same kind of emotions, avalanching.

Thank you Inavalan.

And observation about reality creation is surely not something I would say to my family. It'll hardly be helpful.
I can offer only - distraction, breathing techniques, mild New Age visuals, encouragement - different thing for every family member.

But I can't take "life creation" philosophy out of myself. Most fascinating practical science.

Same with my family and most friends. we can only live with them giving precense and engourage, be "example" if able to do it.  "shine yor light" without words and instructions for them who do not hear this call.

[narvik2]

violence is never justified

I agree absolutely. So politicians are faced with a difficult new situation - how to resolve this. They cannot just expect good, send light and so on.

I seriously doubt politicians ability or inclination to resolve this-or some other problem like these.

[narvik2]

violence is never justified

I agree absolutely. So politicians are faced with a difficult new situation - how to resolve this. They cannot just expect good, send light and so on.

With this reply I just wanted to emphasize that most of us claim to subscribe to Seth's teachings, but don't correlate those teachings with our thoughts and actions in everyday life neither short, nor long term.

and still, invalan, we are doing our best in this Earth school - learning, practicing, improving with practice.

I know that ... but the result for many (most?) is a lot of pain and suffering. I don't see any improvement. People must be doing something wrong.

Seth: He also said aggression is good. He said love is synonymous with creativity, and not just what we believe to be. He said good and evil are just man's constructs based on pleasure.

He said many things, and each one of us interprets them in our own ways. Also, most of us don't apply Seth in our lives at all, or quite distorted, the likes of religions.

I actually don't expect to convince others, and can't be convinced by others, as these discussions can't be resolved intellectually. I'm bouncing the ball to allow my intuition and inner guidance to "talk" to me.

maybe-i think "the good aggression" could be like (we are told) as jesus threw money changers out from temple.  Out-yes, but never said they will go to hell and never to heaven with him = giudged the act, not the doer. aggression in his - Seths - teachings had many aspects as giving birth etc.
 - and yep, we cannot change others - "them". only work on ourselves. So if/when I change also the collective conciousness changes a bit, you add your bit, and then another bit and piece it goes on...

[strangerthings]

TES 9 SESSION 498
AUGUST 25, 1969 9:33 PM MONDAY

(This afternoon Jane's editor at Prentice-Hall, Tam Mossman, called
her re the Seth book Jane is completing for P/H. Tam also had a couple of questions, which Seth begins to answer in this session.

(Before the session this evening I spent some time blowing off steam
about a variety of large issues that we see reflected in our daily news media—such things as corruption, pollution, inflation, the destiny of the race if itpersists in its present ways, etc. Actually I feel deeply about these thingsand become quite furious over actions that seem blatantly destructive to us in the long run. A rather innocent remark made by Jane shortly before 9 PM got me started, hence the session's late beginning.
(Jane also wanted to know about a rather startling experience of her
own last Friday afternoon, involving an elderly friend.)

Good evening.
("Good evening, Seth.")

Now. I have several things to say, and we will try to answer questions
that you have in mind.

First of all, (to me) do not lose your sense of perspective, that larger
perspective, that our work should give you. You are also involved in other realities and other experiments. There is more, and there are trends now in your own reality that you do not see.

Not only this, but even if the race as you know it distorts itself beyond belief, or even destroys itself, the many will not forget. The knowledge, hard won, would be as instinct when the race began again. The losers then would become stern teachers, having learned through experience.

Each experiment is a success, regardless of whether it succeeds or fails in your terms, and each experiment also brings with it new elements of creativity, new innovations having appeared. These are retained. There are various levels all operating, various levels of consciousness and identity. They cannot be forcibly restrained, for they would learn
nothing. What they do learn however is always retained. This does not mean that each succeeding earth experiment will be made up of selves who have been through these cycles.

They may be personalities new to the system, new for that matter
(humorously) to any ideas, completely unused to conceptual thought or vision, beings only now emerging into strong individuality. Consciousness at your level is at a crisis point for many reasons.

Within your system, for the "first time", in quotes, individualized
consciousness is strongly-enough organized to do, in quotes, "good or evil." Before that it was protected, somewhat coddled, with instinctual behavior holding it in bounds. It is not able to utilize enough energy to maintain a system of its own, but operates as an adjunct to other stronger systems. Now some of those within your reality are having their first experience with an ego as you think of it. Others are returning to it, the system, in an effort to learn more. There are guardians, so to speak, within your system, reincarnated for the last time to help keep it in some kind of order while the others mature. There are also some, not physical, who keep an eye out over the whole proceedings.

The training is necessary. The results at any given stage may not
appear very hopeful, and in your terms there is indeed what seems to be a cumulative effect. There is a system of checks and balances that do operate. These exist within the inner selves. The system of checks and balances will operate up to a point, and maintain some stability.

There are alarm signals that trigger warnings through the entire
physical reality. Disaster indeed shows itself within the dream state before it appears as physical fact.

Your ego is now focused within this reality. You have other egos
focused in other realities. The inner self is aware of what is being done in all of these realities. There is some compensation, and the race knows this.
Ruburt wrote that there were clumps of consciousness, and of course he is correct. You are a part of many such clumps of consciousness. The abilities and potentials are not only being developed in this system but in others. The race also realizes well the advantages and disadvantages of the physical reality it has adopted. It knows for example that there is a tendency to go to extremes. I mentioned earlier that the rewards, the challenges and the dangers exist precisely because so much freedom is allowed. Now. Those within the system know this. Regardless of what you may think of their present performance at any given "time" in quotes, it is from this system that the greatest potentials emerge; for having dealt with it,  consciousness undergoes one of the severest tests in learning to handle its
own energy.

The horror and the results of mismanagement, and the vulnerability, are the teaching methods that each consciousness has accepted before entering your system. There is no way out but to learn or to ruin the entire
system. In no other field of reality are the terms so drastic. For this reason the inner self withholds much of its knowledge. There must be no leaning upon the very basic fact that behind and within the system there is relief. You must believe in the physical reality and accept the vulnerability. Now, from your system spring some of the most advanced of all identities. They go on and learn from other realities, granted, but yours is the hardest to manage, and those who accept it go off into a certain line of development where the potentials are beyond anything of which you can presently conceive.

Now I am telling you this evening not only because of your own
earlier discussion, but also because this material will fit in with other
sessions that I have in mind. You are not only ready for them but you are demanding them, and until you are ready you would not understand them. First, quite simply, there are many who do not see those failings and shortcomings and trends of which you spoke earlier. They cannot be told; they learn. Now alone they would not be permitted to destroy an entire reality. The mixture of consciousness within your system gives some control. The child must mature, and your system is a maturing ground, a
very primary one. A beginning school for those who are trying out for particular kinds of experience. Some simply will not succeed. They will continue instead along other lines of development.

Now, you have quite literally put in your time, for centuries.
(Humorously.) This is one of the reasons that you find yourself very
impatient with the development of your fellows, who have not had that
advantage as yet. You have learned. You cannot understand why they have not.

There are cycles of entry into your system. Now the first, quote
"mass" entries do not give you war. Those entering are at first too
bewildered. Manipulation within the physical universe is strange. They do not realize the potential of their own energy, and it is not until they begin to realize it that they are, quote, "led into temptation."

They have to learn to handle it constructively. Now cooperation is an innate feature to these entering selves. Without it they could not survive long enough to learn anything. The warlike periods do not begin until this group achieves some ability at manipulation. Now while it seems to you that there has been little advance, there has indeed in the overall. Larger masses of individuals than ever before in this cycle realize that killing is wrong.

Now this cycle that I am speaking of goes back to the beginning of
history as it is generally known, to your cavemen. You may take your breakand we will continue.

(10:20-10:35.)
Now. We will get on with some other subjects. But remember you
must consider the race and its inhabitants in the entire context of existence if you are to be realistic.

The bold is all Seth.

[strangerthings]

I hope this is helpful.

It sure is meaty.

[inavalan]

I hope this is helpful.

It sure is meaty.

Would you mind expounding on what you got from the "meaty" quote you posted? Thanks.

[inavalan]

I'm currently browsing Zealand's "RealityTransurfing", and I found the following quote quite appropriate for how the masses behaved, and still do in regard to covid, Ukraine, totalitarianism, ...

• "People often make fatal mistakes when they are under the zombifying anaesthesia of a pendulum, only later realizing that they were unaware of their actions and had forgotten to be vigilant."

[Mark M]

It's possible per the thinking below, we are all being played -- at the expense of the people of Ukraine:

+ Chomsky: "Putin has succeeded in establishing the Atlanticist [NATO-based] system even more solidly than before. The gift [to Washington] is so welcome that some sober and well-informed analysts have speculated that it was Washington's goal all along."

https://www.counterpunch.org/2022/03/11/roaming-charges-44/


This is the thinking (from the article linked below):
 
Until 1998, the mainstream view of US support for the anti-communist insurgency in Afghanistan throughout the 1980s was that it had been a response to the Russian invasion of December 1979. But in an interview in 1998, Zbigniew Brzezinski, National Security Advisor to US President Jimmy Carter, admitted that the truth was the exact opposite. In fact "it was July 3, 1979 that President Carter signed the first directive for secret aid to the opponents of the pro-Soviet regime in Kabul. And that very day, I wrote a note to the president in which I explained to him that in my opinion this aid was going to induce a Soviet military intervention...The day that the Soviets officially crossed the border, I wrote to President Carter, essentially: 'We now have the opportunity of giving to the USSR its Vietnam war.' Indeed, for almost 10 years, Moscow had to carry on a war that was unsustainable for the regime, a conflict that brought about the demoralization and finally the breakup of the Soviet empire." Asked whether he regretted the move, which plunged Afghanistan into a conflict which is now into its fifth decade, he replied "Regret what? That secret operation was an excellent idea. It had the effect of drawing the Russians into the Afghan trap and you want me to regret it?" Plunging the Afghan people into a half-century of devastating war was of no consequence for the likes of Brzezinski. His successors clearly have the same attitude towards Ukraine.

From:
 
https://www.counterpunch.org/2022/03/11/russia-has-been-baited-into-a-repeat-of-the-afghan-trap-first-time-as-tragedy-second-time-as-sickening-farce/

[Mark M]

Thanks to inavalan for pointing out the bracketed s was the reason for the unintended strikethroughs in a prior post of mine.

[inavalan]

It's possible per the thinking below, we are all being played -- at the expense of the people of Ukraine:

+ Chomsky: "Putin has succeeded in establishing the Atlanticist [NATO-based] system even more solidly than before. The gift [to Washington] is so welcome that some sober and well-informed analysts have speculated that it was Washington's goal all along."

https://www.counterpunch.org/2022/03/11/roaming-charges-44/


This is the thinking (from the article linked below):
 
Until 1998, the mainstream view of US support for the anti-communist insurgency in Afghanistan throughout the 1980s was that it had been a response to the Russian invasion of December 1979. But in an interview in 1998, Zbigniew Brzezinski, National Security Advisor to US President Jimmy Carter, admitted that the truth was the exact opposite. In fact "it was July 3, 1979 that President Carter signed the first directive for secret aid to the opponents of the pro-Soviet regime in Kabul. And that very day, I wrote a note to the president in which I explained to him that in my opinion this aid was going to induce a Soviet military intervention...The day that the Soviets officially crossed the border, I wrote to President Carter, essentially: 'We now have the opportunity of giving to the USSR its Vietnam war.' Indeed, for almost 10 years, Moscow had to carry on a war that was unsustainable for the regime, a conflict that brought about the demoralization and finally the breakup of the Soviet empire." Asked whether he regretted the move, which plunged Afghanistan into a conflict which is now into its fifth decade, he replied "Regret what? That secret operation was an excellent idea. It had the effect of drawing the Russians into the Afghan trap and you want me to regret it?" Plunging the Afghan people into a half-century of devastating war was of no consequence for the likes of Brzezinski. His successors clearly have the same attitude towards Ukraine.

From:
 
https://www.counterpunch.org/2022/03/11/russia-has-been-baited-into-a-repeat-of-the-afghan-trap-first-time-as-tragedy-second-time-as-sickening-farce/

I think that these opinions are good examples of how one's "interpretation of their perceptions" is their reality, when one doesn't make efforts to sideline their own limiting beliefs. Surely, those opinions may also be conscious attempts at promoting self-serving narratives.

NOTE: Just to make clear: in this case, my comment refers to Brzezinski, and the old communist, not to the author of the quoted post, @Mark M.

[strangerthings]

I hope this is helpful.

It sure is meaty.

Would you mind expounding on what you got from the "meaty" quote you posted? Thanks.

I hope this is helpful.

It sure is meaty.

Would you mind expounding on what you got from the "meaty" quote you posted? Thanks.

I will post it elsewhere later to do that.

[strangerthings]

Seth-Related Discussions Topics about Seth quotes, questions about understanding concepts, Seth or Jane Roberts books. Please, no posts about other teachers. Any posts or topics regarding other teachers/speakers will be split and moved to the Other Speakers/Teachers board.


Lets keep this as intended please. I realize we forget but this area is for us to understand things through using Seth material. Not others. There are other areas for that.

There is zealand, chomsky, some newsy site... completely unrelated to seth teaching us. Please keep this is mind. For me I havent a clue what you are referring to. Please try to not go off the rails here. Thanks.

[inavalan]

Seth-Related Discussions Topics about Seth quotes, questions about understanding concepts, Seth or Jane Roberts books. Please, no posts about other teachers. Any posts or topics regarding other teachers/speakers will be split and moved to the Other Speakers/Teachers board.


Lets keep this as intended please. I realize we forget but this area is for us to understand things through using Seth material. Not others. There are other areas for that.

There is zealand, chomsky, some newsy site... completely unrelated to seth teaching us. Please keep this is mind. For me I havent a clue what you are referring to. Please try to not go off the rails here. Thanks.

I believe that anybody can skip what they aren't interested in. In my opinion those examples you referred to where pertinent to the subject in discussion. You can't have one discussion in multiple forums.

But, surely, it is up to Deb.

This thread, from the beginning, wasn't really about the Seth material, but about our personal views about the war in Ukraine, so maybe it needs to be moved elsewhere, if Debs considers so.

The Zeland quote, that I posted, is quite in line with the Seth material, isn't it? What Zeland calls "pendulum" is what Seth calls "natural hypnosis".

Also, obviously we all read parts of the Seth material, and we understood it quite differently. There isn't a unique truth, or a true interpretation of the material. Everybody will get from it what fits their level of evolvement. What is true for you now, it isn't true for me now.

[inavalan]

I hope this is helpful.

It sure is meaty.

Would you mind expounding on what you got from the "meaty" quote you posted? Thanks.

I hope this is helpful.

It sure is meaty.

Would you mind expounding on what you got from the "meaty" quote you posted? Thanks.

I will post it elsewhere later to do that.

I'm asking, because to me, this quote seemed full of inconsistencies and distortions. I just reviewed it again, and it seemed even more so. It is more Jane's and Rob's perspective on humans and physical-reality than Seth's.

[Deb]

I believe that anybody can skip what they aren't interested in. In my opinion those examples you referred to where pertinent to the subject in discussion. You can't have one discussion in multiple forums.

My intention for this topic was/is to discuss this Mass Event and how the Seth materials explain what's really going one beyond the obvious. It is my attempt to understand why this is happening in this day and age.

I don't have a problem with people bringing in other references in a discussion, such as Zeland, Chomsky (American philosopher among other things), Goddard, Buddha, news articles, blog posts, etc. if it pertains to the topic and has some coherence with the Seth materials. Our threads tend to waver back and forth, they don't follow a beeline, which I think is natural. We always manage to return to the main subject. It would be different if this was a tech support forum, where it's crucial to keep topics as sterile as possible, because others are seeking specific answers to their own tech problems. Unless we want to consider Framework 1 to be Framework 1.0. Sorry, a poor attempt at humor.

My intention with the "Other Teachers" board is that if someone wants to introduce a new teacher/speaker and devote an entire topic to that person, they can do it there. I've moved topics over to that board before, never a big deal for me or the person starting the topic. I always touch base with the initiator first.

Thanks to inavalan for pointing out the bracketed s was the reason for the unintended strikethroughs in a prior post of mine.

Yes, thank you @inavalan. If a post is viewed in Preview (button next to Post at the bottom of the text box), any formatting problems can be seen before clicking "Post." Formatting is made with bracketed Bulletin Board Codes (tags), easily seen in the text box, and problems always involve an unintended format tag, or the loss of the "closing" tag. Below, the bracketed b tag is the opening tag, the /b is closing on. Such as bold BBC would be:

Code Select Expand

[b]This text will be bolded.[/b]
Sorry if I'm too slow to respond, I've been on the road for the past two weeks and don't always have internet or time. I read all posts, don't always have the ability to comment. But I have more time for contemplation, which is a good thing as far as I'm concerned.

[Mark M]

'In its natural state, hatred has a powerful rousing characteristic that initiates change and action. Regardless of what you have been told, hatred does not initiate strong violence. As covered earlier in this book, the outbreak of violence is often the result of a built-in sense of powerlessness. Period. (See sessions 662–63 in Chapter Seventeen.)

[... 3 paragraphs ...]

'On their return home the code of behavior changed back to one suited to civilian life, and they clamped down upon themselves again as hard as they could. Many would appear as superconventional. The "luxury" of expressing emotion even in exaggerated form was suddenly denied them, and the sense of powerlessness grew by contrast.

(Pause at 9:59.) 'Give us a moment... This is not to be a chapter devoted to war. However, there are a few points that I do want to make. It is a sense of powerlessness that also causes nations to initiate wars. This has little to do with their "actual" world situation or with the power that others might assign to them, but to an overall sense of powerlessness — even, sometimes, regardless of world dominance.

'In a way I am sorry that this is not the place to discuss the Second World War (1939–45), for it was also the result of a sense of powerlessness which then erupted into a mass blood bath on a grand scale. The same course was followed privately in the cases of such individuals as just mentioned.

[... 3 paragraphs ...]

'In an odd way this made it even more difficult for those who did go into the next two, less extensive wars, for the country was not behind either one. Any sense of powerlessness on the part of individual fighting men was given expression as before, this time in a more local blood bath, but the code itself had become shaky. This release was not as accepted as it had been before, even within the ranks. By the last war (in Vietnam), the country was as much against it as for it, and the men's feelings of powerlessness were reinforced after it was over. This is the reason for the incidents of violence on the part of returning servicemen.'

—Seth, NoPR, Chapter 21: Session 673, June 27, 1973

[Mark M]

Nations that have no army

David Smith, March 18, 2022

There are 21 nations that have no army. Most of these countries are small and/or maritime. Many have an
agreement with a former occupying country, e.g., Monaco (300 years, with France); the Marshall Islands,
Federated States of Micronesia, and Palau all rely on the United States. Andorra has a small army but has a
defense agreement with France and Spain.

Some countries underwent deliberate demilitarization: Grenada (1983), Costa Rica (1949), and Panama
(1990). Costa Rica demilitarized in order to prevent military coups. Other countries probably had the same
reason. Getting rid of the military has a significant peace dividend. Costa Rica spent its on health care and its
life expectancy is just over 80 years. The US LE is 77 years and other Central American countries at are about
75 years.

Other nations are: Fiji, Kiribati, Liechtenstein, Nauru, Palau, St, Lucia, St. Vincent and the Grenadines,
Solomon Islands, Tuvalu, Vatican City (The Swiss Guard is the personal security service of the Pope), Iceland
(1949, member of NATO), Mauritius, and Vanuatu.

These countries do have land or sea forces that perform police functions. That is, they are trained as police
and follow police procedures. They are usually well-armed and well-trained at the level of police forces, that
is, small arms, possibly automatic weapons, but no armored personnel carriers or cannons or rockets. Sea and
coast patrols are likely somewhat more heavily armed.

Solomon Islands (example)

"Maintained a paramilitary force until a heavy ethnic conflict, in which Australia, New Zealand and other
Pacific countries intervened to restore law and order. Since then no military has been maintained. However,
there is a relatively large police force, and a Maritime Surveillance Unit for internal security. The Maritime
Surveillance Unit is equipped with small arms, and maintains two Pacific-class patrol boats.... Defence and
policing assistance was the responsibility of the RAMSI [Regional Assistance Mission to the Solomon Islands]
until June 30, 2017."

The Regional Security System (Caribbean nations)

"The Regional Security System (RSS) is an international agreement for the defence and security of the eastern
Caribbean region with future expansion planned with South America. The Regional Security System was
created in 1982 to counter threats to the stability of the region in the late 1970s and early 1980s."
This agreement supports mostly disaster relief and police activities, predominantly drug smuggling.

The current member nations are:

 Antigua and Barbuda (since 1982)
 Barbados (since 1982)
 Dominica (since 1982)
 Grenada (since 1985)
 Saint Kitts and Nevis (since 1983)
 Saint Lucia (since 1982)
 Saint Vincent and the Grenadines (since 1982)

Guyana has announced that it will join this year. It has a military of 3,400 which mostly does disaster relief.

Both Canada and the USA support this system.

[Mark M]

"Ireland's tradition of Neutrality is borne out of an unwillingness to kill and be killed in Imperialist Wars that have nothing to do with our people and everything to do with the interests of the elites profiting from Arms, Fossil Fuel and Finance Industries. We like Peace not War..."

--Mick Wallace (born 9 November 1955) is an Irish politician and former property developer who has been a Member of the European Parliament (MEP) from Ireland for the South constituency since July 2019.

https://www.counterpunch.org/2022/03/18/roaming-charges-45/

[Mark M]

War stocks are surging as the Russia-Ukraine conflict rages on: Lockheed-Martin, Northrop up 20%.

Forbes, March 4 2022

https://www.counterpunch.org/2022/03/18/roaming-charges-45/

[Mark M]

https://twitter.com/bogizemlja/status/1501804131496828928

[strangerthings]

Seth-Related Discussions Topics about Seth quotes, questions about understanding concepts, Seth or Jane Roberts books. Please, no posts about other teachers. Any posts or topics regarding other teachers/speakers will be split and moved to the Other Speakers/Teachers board.


Lets keep this as intended please. I realize we forget but this area is for us to understand things through using Seth material. Not others. There are other areas for that.

There is zealand, chomsky, some newsy site... completely unrelated to seth teaching us. Please keep this is mind. For me I havent a clue what you are referring to. Please try to not go off the rails here. Thanks.

I believe that anybody can skip what they aren't interested in. In my opinion those examples you referred to where pertinent to the subject in discussion. You can't have one discussion in multiple forums.

But, surely, it is up to Deb.

This thread, from the beginning, wasn't really about the Seth material, but about our personal views about the war in Ukraine, so maybe it needs to be moved elsewhere, if Debs considers so.

The Zeland quote, that I posted, is quite in line with the Seth material, isn't it? What Zeland calls "pendulum" is what Seth calls "natural hypnosis".

Also, obviously we all read parts of the Seth material, and we understood it quite differently. There isn't a unique truth, or a true interpretation of the material. Everybody will get from it what fits their level of evolvement. What is true for you now, it isn't true for me now.

Well, its posted in a Seth only category so........
I guess I was hoping we can bring out more Seth teachings in relation to this particular subject considering where its located. Thats all.

And btw, the TES9 quote I posted is ALL Seth and VERY pertinent. Only the very beginning is Rob and Jane so I will edit it and make that italics so you can differentiate between the 3 of them even though they say good evening Seth.

Yes where others find things useful others wont. Thats a given. And when asking for me to expound, was that merely bait? lol Cmon now

[inavalan]

@Mark M  Honest questions:

What is your plan for not experiencing a war? What are you doing about it?

From your posts I understand that you are angry with warmongers, and that you hope that people will see the light and will refuse to go to war. Do you think that to be a realistic hope?