Aggression?

[Deb]

This is a topic I don't understand. Maybe my definition of aggression is off-base? I see assertiveness as advocating for oneself, on the peaceful side, not allowing oneself to be influenced, attacked or forced into something by another person's will. Aggression to me is an invasive stance of someone attempting to force their will (or needs?) on another. So I DO NOT understand what Seth meant when he said "natural aggression is the creative loving thrust forward... the way in which love is activated."

Can anyone explain this to me?

"Natural aggression provides the charge for all creativity. Now reading this, many readers will be taken aback, for they believe that love is the impetus, and that love is opposed to aggression. There is no such artificial division. Natural aggression is the creative loving thrust forward, the way in which love is activated, the fuel through whose agency love propels itself. (With emphasis:) Aggression in the most basic terms has nothing to do with physical violence as you think of it, but with the force through which love is perpetuated and creatively renewed.

The Nature of Personal Reality.
Session 643.

[Sena]

Natural aggression provides the charge for all creativity.

Deb, I looked up the dictionary definition:

1:  a forceful action or procedure (as an unprovoked attack) especially when intended to dominate or master

2:  the practice of making attacks or encroachments; especially :  unprovoked violation by one country of the territorial integrity of another

3:  hostile, injurious, or destructive behavior or outlook especially when caused by frustration

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/aggression

I think Seth/Jane/Rob are using the first definition, "a forceful action or procedure", but NOT "an unprovoked attack". An example would be if a baby or young child chokes on a piece of meat, what you do to the child to save his life is "a forceful action or procedure". About half an hour ago, I did enact a forceful action, but I am embarrassed to reveal the details here.

[Deb]

I think Seth/Jane/Rob are using the first definition, "a forceful action or procedure",

But... the rest of that definition is "especially when intended to dominate or master." I can understand an emergency intervention like the choking incident (and I wouldn't call that an aggressive action, although I have to admit that doctors will call chemotherapy/radiation as 'aggressive treatment' to fight cancer). I think Seth used the wrong word, or maybe he has a different definition.

About half an hour ago, I did enact a forceful action, but I am embarrassed to reveal the details here.

Oh jeez, now you have me curious.

[Sena]

Oh jeez, now you have me curious.

Perhaps I should say "decisive action" rather than forceful action.

[Deb]

Perhaps I should say "decisive action" rather than forceful action.

Hee hee hee, OK. That could mean anything from the Heimlich maneuver to (aggressively) chasing the squirrel out of the bird feeder or putting the fly swatter to good use. Good enough. I recently tried to rid my chicken coup of a sudden rat infestation but was overcome with guilt. I ordered a rat-proof chicken feeder from Amazon the other day. I just can't kill things. Well, except for maybe flies. We all have our standards.

[Batfan007]

Perhaps I should say "decisive action" rather than forceful action.

Hee hee hee, OK. That could mean anything from the Heimlich maneuver to (aggressively) chasing the squirrel out of the bird feeder or putting the fly swatter to good use. Good enough. I recently tried to rid my chicken coup of a sudden rat infestation but was overcome with guilt. I ordered a rat-proof chicken feeder from Amazon the other day. I just can't kill things. Well, except for maybe flies. We all have our standards.

All mosquitoes must die!
Maybe not all of them, just the ones that keep biting me. UGH!

[Batfan007]

This is a topic I don't understand. Maybe my definition of aggression is off-base? I see assertiveness as advocating for oneself, on the peaceful side, not allowing oneself to be influenced, attacked or forced into something by another person's will. Aggression to me is an invasive stance of someone attempting to force their will (or needs?) on another. So I DO NOT understand what Seth meant when he said "natural aggression is the creative loving thrust forward... the way in which love is activated."

Can anyone explain this to me?

"Natural aggression provides the charge for all creativity. Now reading this, many readers will be taken aback, for they believe that love is the impetus, and that love is opposed to aggression. There is no such artificial division. Natural aggression is the creative loving thrust forward, the way in which love is activated, the fuel through whose agency love propels itself. (With emphasis:) Aggression in the most basic terms has nothing to do with physical violence as you think of it, but with the force through which love is perpetuated and creatively renewed.

The Nature of Personal Reality.
Session 643.

Fucking is aggressive.
Bees pollinating flowers is aggressive.
Exercise is aggressive.
Thunder storms are aggressive.
I'm not just saying in the typical male oriented way. We often mistake aggression as a synonym for male behavior.

"Men hunt, women gather" that sort of BS.

Seth comments go much deeper than that however on a purely physical as well as more emotional / mental level.
It's a topic I've given a lot of contemplation to over the years, I'll make a note to expand on it in a future article.
It can be a sub topic / tangent to my post on anger.

Do you mind if I quote the full text  of the top post (in the article) Deb? It would give perhaps more context than me just rambling on.
I can leave your name out, just write Anonymous etc.
Or I can put your name in and link back to this forum. Up to you. Good either way. Or not at all if you prefer.

[Deb]

Fucking is aggressive.
Bees pollinating flowers is aggressive.
Exercise is aggressive.
Thunder storms are aggressive.

You're not talking about rape, right?
I guess we have different internal definitions of aggressive. To me it's more of the dictionary definition: I think of anger, violence and forceful intentions, so the Seth quote doesn't make sense to me. To me: Pollination and sex are mutually cooperative ventures. And somewhat related (SEX in Your Garden-- couldn't resist, I took botanic illustration classes from this woman). Thunderstorms are just natural occurrences, no conscious intentions there, just a balancing action or adjustment. And exercise, well I don't know where to go with that. Although I have to say the oft-used phrase "aggressively pursuing" comes to mind (not bringing up visions of violence), so maybe I need to rethink my definition.

Do you mind if I quote the full text  of the top post (in the article) Deb? It would give perhaps more context than me just rambling on.

Feel free to quote whatever you want from here, we can use the exposure! Links back would be great too, every link helps get the forum out there and hopefully higher ranking in the search engines. No need to leave my name out either, I'm already all over the internet so no worries there.

BTW I just got back from the Joe Dispenza Advanced Followup. Holy cow. I'll update THAT topic when I get a chance. But... there were about 35 people from Australia and New Zealand here, many others from around the world (about 500 of us). Joe does workshops in Australia and other parts of the planet. If you really want to see him in person, this next year is the time to do it. In 2018 he plans to change the format and only do week-long workshops so he can get a little more time for himself and his family. God only knows what those are going to cost. I can't believe the first time I took a workshop from him there were only about 25 of us. I sat on his feet the whole time (not literally, but close enough to the truth...).

[Batfan007]

Fucking is aggressive.
Bees pollinating flowers is aggressive.
Exercise is aggressive.
Thunder storms are aggressive.

You're not talking about rape, right?
I guess we have different internal definitions of aggressive. To me it's more of the dictionary definition: I think of anger, violence and forceful intentions, so the Seth quote doesn't make sense to me. To me: Pollination and sex are mutually cooperative ventures. And somewhat related (SEX in Your Garden-- couldn't resist, I took botanic illustration classes from this woman). Thunderstorms are just natural occurrences, no conscious intentions there, just a balancing action or adjustment. And exercise, well I don't know where to go with that. Although I have to say the oft-used phrase "aggressively pursuing" comes to mind (not bringing up visions of violence), so maybe I need to rethink my definition.

Do you mind if I quote the full text  of the top post (in the article) Deb? It would give perhaps more context than me just rambling on.

Feel free to quote whatever you want from here, we can use the exposure! Links back would be great too, every link helps get the forum out there and hopefully higher ranking in the search engines. No need to leave my name out either, I'm already all over the internet so no worries there.

BTW I just got back from the Joe Dispenza Advanced Followup. Holy cow. I'll update THAT topic when I get a chance. But... there were about 35 people from Australia and New Zealand here, many others from around the world (about 500 of us). Joe does workshops in Australia and other parts of the planet. If you really want to see him in person, this next year is the time to do it. In 2018 he plans to change the format and only do week-long workshops so he can get a little more time for himself and his family. God only knows what those are going to cost. I can't believe the first time I took a workshop from him there were only about 25 of us. I sat on his feet the whole time (not literally, but close enough to the truth...).

I don't want to get lost in endless details,

To simplify things, substitute the word "action" for "aggression" and see how that feels.

Broadly speaking all types of physical action involve natural aggression.

It does not mean anger, nor the emotion of anger, I am not talking about that at all. That is one of the distinctions that seth makes about "natural aggression" vs what we commonly think of as fight or flight states of anger, and the associated states and chemicals in the body etc.

To make a futher distinction, one make express natural aggression without being in a STATE of anger.

to do something with natural aggression (or action) does not mean that whatever is done or experiences is not also beautiful, harmonious, kind and gentle.
that may seem at odds with the statement, which is why I am attempting to make distinctions that Seth concepts are his own, that he defined, that we naturall experience, but often mix up the experienes and the labels we give to them.

It's like somebody gave you a watermelon, but they CALLED it a "toaster" when they handed it to you. And they INSIST that it makes toast, despite all evidence to the contrary.

We mix up "anger" and "natural aggression", - the best imo is to observe ones own direct experience and states  of mind, feelings etc, as in my view it's not something that can really be understood intellectually, but merely pointed at with the intellect, and I could be totally wrong, but it makes sense to me.

I may look into doing a post on Anger (and its repeatedly observable chemical signs and symptoms / after effects in the body, its benefits and draw backs) and perhaps also Natural Aggression as I presently understand it (which is a partial understanding, incomplete).

From there, new questions will arise, and from that point I can perhaps make further distinctions, clarify ideas and definitions, and hopefully see some errors in my own subjective thinking and conclusions etc on the way to more expanded knowledge and experience.

Gandhi was a pacifist........in a very aggressive way. He talks about it in his autobiography, and mentions to truly be a pacifist (as in non-violent) me must be strong. He is quite emphatic about it.

*
Reading another thread and Jim posted some quotes RE: weather, natural environment as reflects the psyche.

► UR2 Section 6: Session 733 January 27, 1975   jigsaw nightmares loudly divinity greed
There are earthquakes that erupt physically, and tracings are made of them. There are also inner earthquakes of consciousness from which the physical ones emerge — storms of mind or being, eruptions in which one segment of the world consciousness, repressed in one area, explodes in another.

You have maps of continents and oceans, and in the entire view each portion is like a piece of a jigsaw puzzle, all fitting together perfectly, smoothly flowing into the natural structure of the world.

► TES9 Session 491 July 2, 1969   constructively race system beauties clay
At the last minute however a transformation may occur in which the energy is used instead to form a massive earthquake; the birth of an island or new continent.

[Deb]

To simplify things, substitute the word "action" for "aggression" and see how that feels.

Actually that does help a lot. I think I was getting hung up on the word because of it's common use (to be aggressive towards someone, some thing, forcing one's will on another) and because I usually find Seth's/Jane's choice of words so remarkably clear. So, to think more of the word as being action or impetus takes away the negative connotation for me.

Thanks!

[Batfan007]

To simplify things, substitute the word "action" for "aggression" and see how that feels.

Actually that does help a lot. I think I was getting hung up on the word because of it's common use (to be aggressive towards someone, some thing, forcing one's will on another) and because I usually find Seth's/Jane's choice of words so remarkably clear. So, to think more of the word as being action or impetus takes away the negative connotation for me.

Thanks!

I'm a very angry person by nature. Even about nothing in particular. On a good day.
So it's meditation really that has helped me distinguish between genuine anger about something, the bodily feeling of left over energy / something to be let  (in healthy or unhealthy way) and then natural aggression/action.

For me natural aggression can as simple as tidying up a messy room that I have neglected.
But it can also be genuine anger, that I then turn into say punching the bag at the gym, I let the energy out and feel better afterward, now if I have hit a person instead, the end result if the energy is let out, but you then have injuries and for most people, remorse at one's actions / inflicting harm etc.

Sadly, many men have grown up around men who only knew how to let out natural aggression but hurting people, and nobody has modeled any alternative for them.
Like a kettle that boils, with no outlet, we either explode or turn that energy inwards, sometimes into physical disease as that energy needs to be expressed in some way.