Seth on reincarnation and probable realities - putting 2 and 2 and 2 together

Started by Sena, December 18, 2016, 09:32:45 PM

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Sena

Seth gave us some basic facts about the nature of reality, but we can't assume that he gave us all the inferences and conclusions we could draw from those facts. Some of those inferences could have been too explosive to reveal in 1983, but the situation is different 33 years later. In this post I want to consider 3 of the facts that Seth gave us, and try to put them together:

(1) Reincarnation.
It is clear that this is an important part of Seth's "system", there being 41 references to it in NOPR.

(2) Probable realities.

"In some adventures you do visit other probable realities in which you have a body structure quite as real as 'your own.' Your own psychological makeup, for that matter, achieves its marvelous complexity because it draws from the rich bank of your greater probable existences. Even a small understanding of these ideas can help you glimpse how limiting previous concepts of psychology have been."
(Seth, The "Unknown" Reality Volume I. Session 685)
From <http://www.imaginenolimits.com/SethQuotes2.html>

I don't think Seth had much to say about quantum physics, but I understand probable realities in terms of the Many Worlds Interpretation of quantum physics, according to which there are an infinite number of parallel universes:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Many-worlds_interpretation

(3) The year 2075.

2075 is the year for probably the clearest prediction made by Seth:
"That militant quality in man will completely change its nature, and be dispensed with as you know it, when the next Christ personality emerges. It is therefore appropriate that Paul be present.......In the next century, the inner nature of man, with these developments, will free itself from many constraints that have bound it. A new era will indeed begin – not, now, a heaven on earth, but a far more sane and just world, in which man is far more aware of his relationship with his planet and of his freedom within time.
I would like to make certain points clear. The "new religion" following the Second Coming will not be Christian in your terms, although the third personality of Christ will initiate it......By 2075, all of this will be already accomplished."
(From Seth Speaks: The Eternal Validity of the Soul  pg.328-335)

From <http://www.gestaltreality.com/2012/11/25/2012-2075-christpaul-facilitated-spiritual-paradigm-shift/>

How do we put these three items together? Suppose there is a race on another parallel universe who are far more technologically and spiritually advanced than us on this planet. Because they are advanced, they can see our planet, while we cannot see their universe. They see Earth as a beautiful planet, but the humans are making a terrible mess of it. The only solution they see is to "take over" the planet, but they want to do it as peacefully and with as little disruption as possible. One way of doing it would be if human babies are born with "souls" or "inner selves" from the other Universe. This may already be happening so that the process will be complete by the year 2075. The implication is that Christ/Paul will be the lead member of the "team" coming from that parallel universe.

The "new" beings would be physically very similar to the old humans, but their souls or inner selves would be different. It could be that many members of this forum may already be "new beings". If you find it difficult to fit in with the preoccupations of the average human, that might be an indication.

This idea was suggested to me by something I read in the book "A.D. After Disclosure" by Richard Dolan.

From <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oV_vANPMmw>




LenKop

hi Sena,

In my opinion, any advanced beings wouldn't see the Earth as beautiful, and humans as making a mess. I think this idea is so steeped in UFO dogma, and religious garbage, that the result of such beliefs has ultimately led to people getting on their knees to pray to the sky above.


We create our reality. We create the beauty that is the planet. If humans were making such a mess of it we would have ensured our extinction ages ago. It goes with the whole idea of a 'safe universe'. If life was against us, then we wouldn't have populated so quickly and easily. But many still see a separation between the natural world and mankind. As if we are not part of nature. Or as if Nature isn't 'spiritual'.


'There is no difference between the energy that shapes your ideas and the energy that grows a flower, or that heals your finger if you burn it. The soul does not exist apart from nature. It is not thrust into nature. Nature is the soul in flesh, in whatever materializations.' NOPR Ch 7


The other consideration in the argument of 'taking over' via new birth arrivals is free will. It sounds like a devious way to inhabit the Earth. I think it's a shallow argument, especially when Seth goes on at length about our creative potential. What is our part in such drama? Why would we choose such a fate? Are these advanced beings saving the planet from us?


But let's say that the argument is true. The new births lead to enlightened adults, leading to a new world, by 2075, etc. How, then, does the learning experience play a role? What would be the point of generations of mankind playing out their dramas, hopefully evolving the race, only to have a more advanced species come through right near 'the end' to take the glory? And why would the next Christ consciousness-in-flesh be required to facilitate this? To me it makes very little sense. I can understand developed entities coming to help out, but some advanced species 'stepping in' reeks of Superhero Star Wars myths. The Christ entity from our history didn't come and befriend the enlightened, nor lead a crack troop of spiritual masters, but hung out with normal, everyday, people. At least that's what we've been taught.


But that's just my opinion.


Len


Sena

Quote from: LenKopI think this idea is so steeped in UFO dogma, and religious garbage, that the result of such beliefs has ultimately led to people getting on their knees to pray to the sky above.
Lenkop, thanks for your feedback. I can't speak for other people, but I have no intention of getting on my knees. What I have written above is my interpretation. I think very few people will believe it until it is a fait accompli in 2075. If many people did believe it before 2075, there could well be disastrous chaos. I think Seth is a genius who knew what to leave unsaid. I suppose I could have posted it in the private section, but this site does not get many visitors, and it appears that they are mostly sceptical. They are welcome to have a good laugh about it.

Sena

Seth on "many physical universes" (Session 238, September 23, 1968, Early Sessions, Book 9):

"Outside" in quotes of the realities of which I am aware and others are aware, there are systems we cannot describe. They are massive energy sources, cosmic energy banks, who make possible the whole reality of possibilities.

We are moving in that direction. Portions of the entity in quotes "arrive" before other portions, and send us communications that we can hardly understand. The other personality who speaks is on the edge of such a system (Long pause). The other system is on the inside of the inside. It has seen the birth and death of many physical universes such as your own; and the entities within it, in quote, "at one time" were the inhabitants of such universes.

Session 452, December 2, 1968:

"The race of man is far more than the physical race, however. You see in him but one stage of development. When an individual leaves your system it is for other systems..... Beyond your system there are refinements impossible to describe, and further developments more miraculous than those that have gone before..... This is some of the most important material that I have given you, for you have wondered about the purpose, and have been able often to see but one small speck of time and space.

"This original system of which I have spoken will at least be theorized shortly, but the idea will not be taken seriously enough to cause any deep controversy. The energy of this system was enormous, far greater than any you, and the debris thrown off constantly gave birth to other systems..... We are struggling with Ruburt's vocabulary..... It possessed creatures of consciousness, but not as you know creatures. Energy, entities..... Continually transforming massive roytans (sic)....

"Your universe is but one of many, and you perceive but a small portion of the universe in which you do exist, for there are dimensions within it that you do not perceive."

Session 453, December 4, 1968:

"This is some material that we have not given you, lest the implications lead you to thoughts of insignificance. But you are not simply receivers, you are also givers. As your own universe was formed by entities that you do not presently understand, so the discards of your own consciousness form realities for entities that are scarcely aware of your existence.... In this abundance nothing is meaningless nor wasted."

(bold type inserted by me)


LenKop

"Now because All That Is contains within itself such omnipotent, fertile, divine creative characteristics, all portions of its subjective experience attained dimensions of actuality impossible to describe. The thoughts, for example, of All That Is were not simply thoughts as you might have, but multidimensional mental events of superlative nature. Those events soon found that a transformation must occur, if they were to journey into objectivity - for no objectivity of itself could contain the entire reality of subjective events that existed within divine subjectivity. Only in that context could their relative perfection be maintained. Yet they had yearned before the beginning for other experiences, and even for fulfillment of a different nature. They sensed a kind of value fulfillment that required of them the utilization of their own creative abilities. They yearned to create so they had been created, and All That Is, in a kind of divine perplexity, nevertheless realized that this had always been its own intent."


"All That Is realized that such a separation would also allow you to bring about a different kind of divine art, in which the creators themselves created, and their creations created, bringing into actuality existences that were possible precisely because there would seem to be a difference between the creator and the creations. All That Is is, therefore, within each smallest portion of consciousness."


"Yet each smallest portion of consciousness can uniquely create, bring into being, eccentric versions of All That Is, that in certain terms All That Is, without the separation, could not otherwise create. The loving support, the loving encouragement of the slightest probable consciousness and manifestation - that is the intent of All That Is."


"All That Is knows that even this purpose is a portion of a larger purpose. In terms of time, the realization of that purpose will emerge with another momentous explosion of subjective inspiration into objectivity or into another form. In deeper terms, however, that purpose is also known now, and to one extent or another the entire universe dreams of it, as once cellular consciousness dreamed of the organs that it might 'form.'"


DREAMS, "EVOLUTION," AND VALUE FULFILLMENT
[size=78%]Session 884..... thanks to DiAnne S, via Lynda English on FB Friends[/size]


It's an interesting topic, and it should make everyone question their own significance in the scheme of things. 'You are not simply receivers, you are also givers...'


Now my question is, do our beliefs determine our significance? I don't think so. But I assume our beliefs determine a measurement for significance, which then impacts our ability toward value fulfillment. And I think that if we measure levels of significance, rather than believing there is a 'loving support, the loving encouragement of the slightest probable consciousness and manifestation..', then we tend to look outward for answers, and forget our divine subjectivity, and the creative importance ATI bestowed upon our divine objectivity.


Len

Batfan007

Quote from: Sena
Seth gave us some basic facts about the nature of reality, but we can't assume that he gave us all the inferences and conclusions we could draw from those facts. Some of those inferences could have been too explosive to reveal in 1983, but the situation is different 33 years later. In this post I want to consider 3 of the facts that Seth gave us, and try to put them together:

(1) Reincarnation.
It is clear that this is an important part of Seth's "system", there being 41 references to it in NOPR.

(2) Probable realities.

"In some adventures you do visit other probable realities in which you have a body structure quite as real as 'your own.' Your own psychological makeup, for that matter, achieves its marvelous complexity because it draws from the rich bank of your greater probable existences. Even a small understanding of these ideas can help you glimpse how limiting previous concepts of psychology have been."
(Seth, The "Unknown" Reality Volume I. Session 685)
From <http://www.imaginenolimits.com/SethQuotes2.html>

I don't think Seth had much to say about quantum physics, but I understand probable realities in terms of the Many Worlds Interpretation of quantum physics, according to which there are an infinite number of parallel universes:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Many-worlds_interpretation

(3) The year 2075.

2075 is the year for probably the clearest prediction made by Seth:
"That militant quality in man will completely change its nature, and be dispensed with as you know it, when the next Christ personality emerges. It is therefore appropriate that Paul be present.......In the next century, the inner nature of man, with these developments, will free itself from many constraints that have bound it. A new era will indeed begin – not, now, a heaven on earth, but a far more sane and just world, in which man is far more aware of his relationship with his planet and of his freedom within time.
I would like to make certain points clear. The "new religion" following the Second Coming will not be Christian in your terms, although the third personality of Christ will initiate it......By 2075, all of this will be already accomplished."
(From Seth Speaks: The Eternal Validity of the Soul  pg.328-335)

From <http://www.gestaltreality.com/2012/11/25/2012-2075-christpaul-facilitated-spiritual-paradigm-shift/>

How do we put these three items together? Suppose there is a race on another parallel universe who are far more technologically and spiritually advanced than us on this planet. Because they are advanced, they can see our planet, while we cannot see their universe. They see Earth as a beautiful planet, but the humans are making a terrible mess of it. The only solution they see is to "take over" the planet, but they want to do it as peacefully and with as little disruption as possible. One way of doing it would be if human babies are born with "souls" or "inner selves" from the other Universe. This may already be happening so that the process will be complete by the year 2075. The implication is that Christ/Paul will be the lead member of the "team" coming from that parallel universe.

The "new" beings would be physically very similar to the old humans, but their souls or inner selves would be different. It could be that many members of this forum may already be "new beings". If you find it difficult to fit in with the preoccupations of the average human, that might be an indication.

This idea was suggested to me by something I read in the book "A.D. After Disclosure" by Richard Dolan.

From <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oV_vANPMmw>






From my perspective, everything in the material reality (even the earth) is part of a complex feedback system that shows us the results of what we create individually and en masse.

Where does "learning" take place, not in the physical world, but in the mind. The "mind" is not part of the physical world. It's a non-physical portion of our entity (Seth's words).

So everything in the material world is temporary, and part of the system set up with the maximum chances of us learning from ourselves and each other, and how we effect our immediate environment.

I think their is a sort of human guilt today in modern people that we feel like we are fucking up the planet. I am not saying whether we are, or are not. However, I can say that our overall behavior and attitude is disrespectful to many non-human forms of life on this planet, and there is what I what call a "discord" with our natural environment. mixed in with this is ideas like Biblical myths such as Adam and Eve, garden of paradise etc.

We have lost our natural way, but there is literally nothing stopping us from relearning things we have collectively forgotten. But it needs to be a conscious choice, and as for mass society, we already know that a lot of big changes in human society happens slowly, and often take many decades if not a hundred years to trickle down to everybody.

The comment about 2075 I am not really familiar with, but from the personal sessions book 1 I was reading this morning, Seth did that comment that he often refrained from making "future predictions" lest if overly influence Jane/Rob in  a feedback loop where they change something (for the worse) with the fore-knowledge, and then blame Seth, rather than accept their own role in the drama.

From my perspective, Seth does talk about likely social changes etc that are more predictions rather than absolute certainties.

The #1 issue for me in a multiverse is that for every "prediction" that came true in reality on earth #125, over in parallel earth #1,000,0025 - completely different events took place, and again on earth #9978 human beings don't even exist while on imaginary earth #9978 humans evolved in a totally different direction that would make them quite "alien" to us.
All of that is just silly examples, and why I find anyone making "future predictions" (from human beings, fortune tellers etc) to be either ignorant or knowingly deceptive. However some "future predictors" are actually empaths that pick up on someones overall feelings and attitudes, and then tell them reassuring things they want to hear, that can be quite healing and is similar to a good therapist, just in a different form. I'm not trying to disqualify anyone from the human race just because they make a prediction abut the future.  ;)

The BEST we can do is make educated guesses about potential futures, as reality is fluid and dynamic and ever changing. :-X
That is not to say we can not remote view POSSIBLE future scenarios, the same way we can look into our own past. That is possible. However, the future and the past change, they are not static, which makes 99% predictions to me, utterly useless.

There is no future or past that is independent of us, of "Self", at least as far as what we can perceive and know within this system while incarnated in human form. So when you say you (anyone, not you specifically Sena) are making a prediction... well you are talking about self.

Now, if say in 5 hours time, I know I am going to make and eat a ham sandwich, have I "predicted" the future or simply made a choice?
And when I get to that point, 5 hours from now and instead decide to go for a walk or have a sleep, skipping the sandwich, has my prediction "failed" to come true? Should I get angry at the person who predicted this sure thing future? (whoops, it was me,,bit pointless being mad at me). >:(

So, if I am a self, and any fortune teller is a self, we all make choices, and so to me all predictions are really just choices. Made by individual selves, and collective selves.
Anyhow, that is my prejudice on the topic, I'm keen to hear other points of view, and feel free to challenge anything I've put down here.
My view is that we should be making conscious choices rather than relying on any "predictions" no matter the source, Seth or otherwise.

Otherwise the fundamental msg becomes that SETH is saying he himself makes reality "I make the reality, you listen and act it out"
rather than  "YOU create your personal reality"

I will come back to the other topics you mentioned Sena, but wait to see what other insights people may have, and feel free to clarify anything I have misinterpreted in what you said, so much is lost in text that is easier to understand in actual conversations with pitch, tone, humor etc.

I am guessing you more interested in the possible details and ramifications of that possible future scenario then than the prediction itself Sena, if so, please do steer me in that direction as I happy to talk about any topic, but sometimes I get stuck on a particular point like a dog with a bone that refuses to let go  ;)

I am far more interested in exploration and discovery than to prove or disprove any particular perspective, and as we have our subjective reality as well as the mass reality, if something is true for us personally and emotionally, then it can be a hot button topic if someone says the contrary.
My view is that we grow into large and large truths, not that what we knew as children was false in any way, it was just small perspective,  a partial truth that grew large as we became adults, and really this process should be our whole lifetimes, ever widening circles of truth and insight, expanding and eventually including every perspective possible, leaving nothing behind.

Sena

Quote from: Batfan007The comment about 2075 I am not really familiar with, but from the personal sessions book 1 I was reading this morning, Seth did that comment that he often refrained from making "future predictions" lest if overly influence Jane/Rob in  a feedback loop where they change something (for the worse) with the fore-knowledge, and then blame Seth, rather than accept their own role in the drama.
John, thanks for your feedback. Seth's prediction about 2075 is critical for the discussion I have initiated. As you have quoted above, Seth refrained from making future predictions except for this one.

I am trying to imagine what impact Christ/Paul will have when he comes. The RC church and various Christian sects will immediately label him Antichrist. Yet this is what Seth says will happen:

"However, he will not be generally known for who he is. There will be no glorious proclamation to which the whole world will bow. He will return to straighten out Christianity, which will be in a shambles at the time of his arrival, and to set up a new system of thought when the world is sorely in need of one. By that time, all religions will be in severe crisis......."
"Man's experience will be so extended that to you the species will seem to have changed to another. This does not mean there will not be problems. It does mean that man will have far greater resources at his command. It also presupposes a richer and far more diverse social framework. Men and women will find themselves relating to their fellow beings, not only as the people that they are, but as the people that they were." (From Seth Speaks)

http://www.apocatastasis.net/Prophecy/SethProphecy.html

You might agree that "straightening out Christianity" is a massive task. This is why I speculate that the task will be easier if more spiritually advanced beings became incarnated as humans prior to 2075. This is similar to what Dolores Cannon says in her book "The Three Waves of Volunteers and The New Earth".

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/ciencia_consciousuniverse406.htm

Batfan007

Quote from: Sena
Quote from: Batfan007The comment about 2075 I am not really familiar with, but from the personal sessions book 1 I was reading this morning, Seth did that comment that he often refrained from making "future predictions" lest if overly influence Jane/Rob in  a feedback loop where they change something (for the worse) with the fore-knowledge, and then blame Seth, rather than accept their own role in the drama.
John, thanks for your feedback. Seth's prediction about 2075 is critical for the discussion I have initiated. As you have quoted above, Seth refrained from making future predictions except for this one.

I am trying to imagine what impact Christ/Paul will have when he comes. The RC church and various Christian sects will immediately label him Antichrist. Yet this is what Seth says will happen:

"However, he will not be generally known for who he is. There will be no glorious proclamation to which the whole world will bow. He will return to straighten out Christianity, which will be in a shambles at the time of his arrival, and to set up a new system of thought when the world is sorely in need of one. By that time, all religions will be in severe crisis......."
"Man's experience will be so extended that to you the species will seem to have changed to another. This does not mean there will not be problems. It does mean that man will have far greater resources at his command. It also presupposes a richer and far more diverse social framework. Men and women will find themselves relating to their fellow beings, not only as the people that they are, but as the people that they were." (From Seth Speaks)

http://www.apocatastasis.net/Prophecy/SethProphecy.html

You might agree that "straightening out Christianity" is a massive task. This is why I speculate that the task will be easier if more spiritually advanced beings became incarnated as humans prior to 2075. This is similar to what Dolores Cannon says in her book "The Three Waves of Volunteers and The New Earth".

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/ciencia_consciousuniverse406.htm


Well I'm always up for challenge. I'll get right on sorting out that Christianity business right after lunch. Just send me a memo to remind me.  :)

Sena

Seth refers to extraterrestrials or extradimensionals in the 604th Session January 12, 1972. This is an unpublished session, so I cannot vouch for the accuracy of the following quotes:

http://www.subtleenergies.com/ormus/tw/sethsound.htm

"(Shortly after supper this evening, Tom Milligan, a former student of Jane's brought us a copy of Saga Magazine for Dec. 71. It contained an article by our friend Otto Binder, entitled "UFO's Own Earth and All Mankind!" This article touched upon many ideas we are interested in, and quoted astrophysicist Fred Hoyle, among others, re the ownership of the race idea. We spend some time discussing it. We had no opinion particularly, beyond remembering that according to Seth the whole question of the race of man and its origins, and doubts concerning theories of evolution, was vastly more complicated than was generally believed. Seth's ideas of time give us quite a different approach to these ideas also.)"

"Seth: "The message for tonight is: you are not owned.

"Now, your human stock did not all originate solely from your planet. I never told you that it did. In that respect your ancestry is indeed varied. Some of the information given in my own book, by inference, should have made that clear."

Seth: "There were then visits from others in other planetary systems. In that regard this is quite natural. Your own relative isolation is far from the average. The legends, many of them, therefore, were of course chronicles of quite legitimate physical events, describing phenomena for example for which natives had no adequate vocabulary. They were forced to describe what they saw by making comparisons with objects and events already familiar to them."

(Jane's pace, as Seth, was now quite a bit faster.) "Some such visitors, in your terms, were more evolved than others. All, however, would appear as superhuman in contrast to those civilizations that encountered them. There were some deliberate experiments, that were in fact far more dangerous to the experimenters, always in which the experimenters tried, in one way or another, tired to advance man's knowledge."

(9:29) "It is not nearly as simple as that, however. There is not a one-line development. By the time that feasible inter-system space travel is practical, the psychic abilities are developed to a very high degree. One is necessary for the other. Therefore, it became much more feasible to approach earthmen during their dream state, when their natural fear reactions were somewhat minimized, and where the danger to the visitors was far less."

"Seth: "Out of body encounters were used as a matter of course. The visitor could appear and disappear then without fear of pursuit. Civilizations were often warned in advance of natural disasters that were apparent to the visitors with their greater viewpoint.

"Such warnings were either given in the dream state of the earthmen, for the reasons given or often in some secluded place, for often the visitors would be attacked. During these eras, in your terms, the speakers often acted as go-betweens. Often warnings of disaster were not followed. Some warnings were misunderstood, then, as punishment by the gods of 'moral misdoing.'"

""You have always been Sumari. This simply means that your consciousness has certain bents of its own, interests and abilities and specializations. The word Sumari characterizes a certain kind of consciousness simply for means of identification in your terms.

"Space and time as you understand them ripple through each other. They do not behave as you think they do, however. Presently you understand your existence only as it intrudes into three dimensions. Its own activity is in many other dimensions however.

"The Sumari, therefore, appear in or intrude into the three dimensional system from other dimensions."

(The bolding of certain phrases has been inserted by me)

Batfan007

I don't know about the "unpublished" stuff, but he talks about all of that stuff in the published books.

It's also in pretty much every ancient religious and mystical tradition in one form or another.

LenKop

I think the ideas here all tie together naturally, it's just our limited view that can't see it yet. Or at least not the grand picture.


The prediction Seth makes is made in our terms, as there's nothing to really predict beyond a space/time paradigm.


Our beliefs regarding religion need close inspection too. The 'new religion' might well be no more organised than this forum. But many will read that it will 'not be Christian in your terms' and immediately an organised congregation will be imagined.


Beliefs regarding Christ's return conjure up many emotions, and have for millennia. What do we really know about it? Pure speculation. Most of which has him smashing through religions and saving the world....our hero returns! For all we know he could be an entrepreneur, living right now, using his influence to push connection and understanding to new levels? Or take on many bodies throughout education systems across the world, both rich and poor, planting beautiful seeds into the next generation? Again, pure speculation...As for 'straightening out Christianity', this is Seth at his vaguest. How do you straighten out a religion that has based itself for so long in our belief systems? I'm sure the Christ entity would know, and I'm pretty sure we don't. :)


And probabilities are probably (pun intended) the most difficult to understand. We might not even need Christ. Because our vibration has changed so much that we shifted this particular focus in other directions. Or Christ needs us...to be ready and in a loving internal space before that three part drama can be concluded.


I find the quote 'man's experience will be so extended that to you the species will have seemed to have changed to another' very intriguing.


Len

Sena

Quote from: LenKopThe 'new religion' might well be no more organised than this forum.
Len, that is certainly a possibility. Another possibility is that Christ/Paul will be a CEO who will set the Earth on the correct path. Or he could be a musician or film director. "Preaching" is clearly an outmoded approach to spreading the good news.

QuoteI find the quote 'man's experience will be so extended that to you the species will have seemed to have changed to another' very intriguing.
Biologically speaking, it is mind-boggling. I hope someone is able to check this with the Yale university archives.

Deb

Quote from: SenaSeth refers to extraterrestrials or extradimensionals in the 604th Session January 12, 1972. This is an unpublished session, so I cannot vouch for the accuracy of the following quotes:

Great link, amazing passage, very exciting stuff. It actually was published, in Personal Sessions 2 (I found it in Mary Dillman's PDF list of all the sessions). The link you shared probably predated the book release.

I don't actually have that book myself, so I also can't vouch for the accuracy. But I will update this post I made not long ago with the additional text from the Subtle Energies site. And I guess I'll be buying another Seth book.

Update:

@sethspeaks  I just remembered you wrote this. Maybe you can copy & paste Session 604 and email it to me? deb@speakingofseth.com

Quote from: sethspeaksI have ES1-9, SS, TNPR, UR1, UR2, TNOP, TIATNOME, DEAVFV1, DEAVFV2, TMA, TWTH electronically.

UPDATE: sethspeaks sent me a scan of the entire Session 604. I've split off some related posts from here into a new topic, Seth on our origins and have included the complete Session 604 there.



Batfan007

Quote from: Sena
Quote from: LenKopThe 'new religion' might well be no more organised than this forum.
Len, that is certainly a possibility. Another possibility is that Christ/Paul will be a CEO who will set the Earth on the correct path. Or he could be a musician or film director. "Preaching" is clearly an outmoded approach to spreading the good news.

QuoteI find the quote 'man's experience will be so extended that to you the species will have seemed to have changed to another' very intriguing.
Biologically speaking, it is mind-boggling. I hope someone is able to check this with the Yale university archives.

Whoever or whatever this personality may be, if they are not involved in some type of media their message will not be heard in today's world.
Even the President Tweets.

Yeoshi Yamamoto

When I mention probable realities I mean realities different than the one in our universe. So it is a totally separate reality or universe if you will.

One of the interesting premises of Seth is that you make decisions and choices all along your path. Now, in terms of our reality, my understanding is that it means that though you may elect to go right at a red light in your current focus, there is also another you that has gone left, and that reality is fully explored, and yet another that goes straight through, and yet another that has been killed while crossing the intersection, the possibilities are endless. All the other possiblities that we do not focus on are, if you will, out of phase with our focus, but as Batfan007 says:

{... "From my perspective those other selves (both probable and other incarnations) all exist here and now, and when I see something through their eyes, or feel their feelings, I'm simply changing my focus from this "self" who is typing now, to that one, who are all connected through the oversoul, the same way I may have ten fingers and toes, but they are just extensions of my body. They are right next to each other, at the same time." ...}

My question is about all of those different decisions that we take, such as the example of the red light, left, right,  straight through, etc. Do all of those paths exist simultaneously as part of this reality, or are they  somehow out of phase with our current reality or are they each a new reality that is explored individually by a new me?

Another thing of great interest is Seth's description of our reality. He says that, from one of the ESP session if I recall correctly, that four people in a room will see four different people, both physically and in real terms. So we each have a different construct of the person we are looking at. Does that mean 4 different realities implying that each one of the beings in the room lives within his own or her own reality. That is a puzzle to me. And further, is the meetin we are having a so-called shared reality?

As I look out my window, I thousands of houses, vehicles, people, going back and forth, are all those separate individual realities? And the fact that I see them at all, my personal construct of their reality? Totally unknown to me!

In addition to the above Seth clearly states that our reality(ies) are cooperative or "shared" realities. How that works, I have no idea.

This is where the out-of-body experience may be very useful, if while we travel in OBE form we can explore those avenues and see the simultaneous other choices we have made, do not know if it can be done. I won't even get  into dreams, another huge puzzle.

Sadly my baggage is that as a 10-15 years old boy I had one OBE, and though it lasted perhaps a few seconds while I was conscious of it, I immediately destroyed it totally refusing to accept it as a part of me. So I nearly erased all of the DATA as Tom would say. But I have recalled the event, and in another simultaneous reality this young boy is travelling everywhere in OBE, what a nice thought, and the little bugger is having more fun than me, (again just a silly thought, or is it?)

Quote from Volume 1 of  The Unknown Reality -  Session 682: February 13, 1974, 9:27 P.M. Wednesday:

... {{"Now: Because your greater identity is aware of its probable existences, you are in matter and out of it at the same time – in time and out of it.

You have a greater identity outside of your context, yet a part of it is inside your context, as you. Your youness is your significance, a focus of awareness, conscious of itself, that seeks out and views experience with its own unique propensities. The existence of probable realities and probable selves in no way denies the validity of your own experience or individuality. That rides secure, choosing from unpredictable fields of actuality those that suit its own particular nature.

(With gestures, emphatically) That selfhood jumps in leapfrog fashion over events that it does not want to actualize (pause), and does not admit such experience into its selfhood. Other portions of your greater identity, however, do accept those same events rejected by you, and form their own selfhoods.

Now some of you might choose some of the same events, and there probabilities will merge. Such points of intersection are highly charged and creative. These intersections can happen in individual and mass terms. One historical event may be simultaneously accepted in several probable realities, for example, while others may occur in one and not in an alternate history.

(Long pause at 11:29.) While words are difficult to use here, again, what I am saying applies, in different ways perhaps, to the behaviour of worlds, atoms, and psychological structures. Give us a moment... In the life that you know, as given in Personal Reality, your beliefs act to specify the particular probable events that will become "real."  Because you are a probable self, an understanding of your own nature will show you some of the abilities, not used here, but present, that you can indeed choose to actualize. You can draw then from your own bank of probable abilities, for there will be traces of them in you. They are being developed in another reality; therefore in this one they can be utilized far easier than you might suppose. When you exercise your right arm, your left arm benefits. When you develop abilities in one system, to some extent they are easier to develop in another. (To me:) In deciding to do some writing (for the Seth books, as an example), you are also drawing upon abilities that you have worked on in another system, and through your intent you are to a certain extent blending probabilities.

Even a simple understanding of this would help people realize that no existence is dead-ended."}}

Looks like I might be out to lunch in regard to probablilities, oh well, I keep trying.

Though, there are multiple versions of "me", they are all linked, allowing the "focus" me to to tap into those experiences and/or abilites that are dormant within the focus me and actualize them. As an example, my current interest in becoming physically fit, may well be supported by one of my probable selves having more emphasis on physical fitness in his focus reality. As seth has said, one personalilty affects another, simultaneously , regadless of the concept of past, present and future that we use here.

Deb

Quote from: Yeoshi YamamotoThough, there are multiple versions of "me", they are all linked, allowing the "focus" me to to tap into those experiences and/or abilites that are dormant within the focus me and actualize them. As an example, my current interest in becoming physically fit, may well be supported by one of my probable selves having more emphasis on physical fitness in his focus reality. As seth has said, one personalilty affects another, simultaneously , regadless of the concept of past, present and future that we use here.

That's what I get out of the concept as well.

@Yeoshi Yamamoto, I thought I'd move your most recent post over here since it's mostly about probable realities, I thought it was a good fit. I'm adding some quotes that made the concept of probable realities more clear for me. Plus if you've ever read Richard Bach, his novel One explores the concept. It's been a long time since I read the book, but I remember I enjoyed it and it gave me a heads-up on the concept long before I found Seth.

Unknown Reality 1 Notes from Session 679 [my notes are in brackets]
Rob:
"1. Seth tells us that all actions are initially mental in nature. Very simply, probable realities flow from the multitudinous actions—or events—we may envision, but choose not to actualize physically. But any motion of ours remains quite valid once it's conceived, and is carried out in all of its variations by probably selves in other realities. There can be communication between at least some of these worlds. Jane has had a modest success in touching upon a few of her probable selves, and plans to write about those experiments and others she helps to conduct.

Seth, in his material on probably systems in Chapter 16 of Seth Speaks, says: "The soul can be described for that matter as a multidimensional, infinite act, each minute probability being brought somewhere into actuality and existence; an infinite creative act that creates for itself infinite dimension in which fulfillment is possible."

Then See Chapter 15 of The Seth Material: Probable Selves and Probable Systems of Reality."

Skip to Session 680 [Seth to Rob—I'm skipping around a bit with the quotes]:

"Your parents literally did not share the same reality at all. This is not as unusual as you may think. They met and related in a place between each of their realities. It was not that they disagreed with each other's interpretation of events. The events were different.

...Each of your parents had their strongest reality, this time, and in your terms, in a probable system of reality—and here (in this reality) they were offshoots. [Seth explains this offshoots concept at the beginning of session 680.]

...In another system of reality your father was...[continues to describe father's alternate or probable life]

...In that other probability in which your parents originally met, your mother married a doctor... [continues to describe mother's alternate life]

...When you mother died in her 50s in one probable system, your mother in this system was the recipient of energy that then returned.

...probable selves are aware, unconsciously, of their relationships.

Because no system is closed, there are flows of energy between them and interaction.

Imagine that at age 13, three strong energy centers come to the surface of the personality—highly charged, so that one person cannot adequately fulfill the desires or abilities presented. You may have a three-way split at age 13. At [age] 40, each of the three selves may recognize age 13 as a turning point, and wonder what might have happened had they chosen other courses."

In the rest of this session, Seth gives more details of probable lives/events for Rob, his family, Jane ("Ruburt was a nun").

Batfan007

Quote from: Yeoshi Yamamoto
When I mention probable realities I mean realities different than the one in our universe. So it is a totally separate reality or universe if you will.

One of the interesting premises of Seth is that you make decisions and choices all along your path. Now, in terms of our reality, my understanding is that it means that though you may elect to go right at a red light in your current focus, there is also another you that has gone left, and that reality is fully explored, and yet another that goes straight through, and yet another that has been killed while crossing the intersection, the possibilities are endless. All the other possiblities that we do not focus on are, if you will, out of phase with our focus, but as Batfan007 says:

{... "From my perspective those other selves (both probable and other incarnations) all exist here and now, and when I see something through their eyes, or feel their feelings, I'm simply changing my focus from this "self" who is typing now, to that one, who are all connected through the oversoul, the same way I may have ten fingers and toes, but they are just extensions of my body. They are right next to each other, at the same time." ...}

My question is about all of those different decisions that we take, such as the example of the red light, left, right,  straight through, etc. Do all of those paths exist simultaneously as part of this reality, or are they  somehow out of phase with our current reality or are they each a new reality that is explored individually by a new me?

Another thing of great interest is Seth's description of our reality. He says that, from one of the ESP session if I recall correctly, that four people in a room will see four different people, both physically and in real terms. So we each have a different construct of the person we are looking at. Does that mean 4 different realities implying that each one of the beings in the room lives within his own or her own reality. That is a puzzle to me. And further, is the meetin we are having a so-called shared reality?

As I look out my window, I thousands of houses, vehicles, people, going back and forth, are all those separate individual realities? And the fact that I see them at all, my personal construct of their reality? Totally unknown to me!

In addition to the above Seth clearly states that our reality(ies) are cooperative or "shared" realities. How that works, I have no idea.

This is where the out-of-body experience may be very useful, if while we travel in OBE form we can explore those avenues and see the simultaneous other choices we have made, do not know if it can be done. I won't even get  into dreams, another huge puzzle.

Sadly my baggage is that as a 10-15 years old boy I had one OBE, and though it lasted perhaps a few seconds while I was conscious of it, I immediately destroyed it totally refusing to accept it as a part of me. So I nearly erased all of the DATA as Tom would say. But I have recalled the event, and in another simultaneous reality this young boy is travelling everywhere in OBE, what a nice thought, and the little bugger is having more fun than me, (again just a silly thought, or is it?)

Quote from Volume 1 of  The Unknown Reality -  Session 682: February 13, 1974, 9:27 P.M. Wednesday:

... {{"Now: Because your greater identity is aware of its probable existences, you are in matter and out of it at the same time – in time and out of it.

You have a greater identity outside of your context, yet a part of it is inside your context, as you. Your youness is your significance, a focus of awareness, conscious of itself, that seeks out and views experience with its own unique propensities. The existence of probable realities and probable selves in no way denies the validity of your own experience or individuality. That rides secure, choosing from unpredictable fields of actuality those that suit its own particular nature.

(With gestures, emphatically) That selfhood jumps in leapfrog fashion over events that it does not want to actualize (pause), and does not admit such experience into its selfhood. Other portions of your greater identity, however, do accept those same events rejected by you, and form their own selfhoods.

Now some of you might choose some of the same events, and there probabilities will merge. Such points of intersection are highly charged and creative. These intersections can happen in individual and mass terms. One historical event may be simultaneously accepted in several probable realities, for example, while others may occur in one and not in an alternate history.

(Long pause at 11:29.) While words are difficult to use here, again, what I am saying applies, in different ways perhaps, to the behaviour of worlds, atoms, and psychological structures. Give us a moment... In the life that you know, as given in Personal Reality, your beliefs act to specify the particular probable events that will become "real."  Because you are a probable self, an understanding of your own nature will show you some of the abilities, not used here, but present, that you can indeed choose to actualize. You can draw then from your own bank of probable abilities, for there will be traces of them in you. They are being developed in another reality; therefore in this one they can be utilized far easier than you might suppose. When you exercise your right arm, your left arm benefits. When you develop abilities in one system, to some extent they are easier to develop in another. (To me:) In deciding to do some writing (for the Seth books, as an example), you are also drawing upon abilities that you have worked on in another system, and through your intent you are to a certain extent blending probabilities.

Even a simple understanding of this would help people realize that no existence is dead-ended."}}

Looks like I might be out to lunch in regard to probablilities, oh well, I keep trying.

Though, there are multiple versions of "me", they are all linked, allowing the "focus" me to to tap into those experiences and/or abilites that are dormant within the focus me and actualize them. As an example, my current interest in becoming physically fit, may well be supported by one of my probable selves having more emphasis on physical fitness in his focus reality. As seth has said, one personalilty affects another, simultaneously , regadless of the concept of past, present and future that we use here.


Highlighted last bit in bold, as you are intuiting what you already know right there, but letting "doubt" creep in.

Don't judge or label what you experience.  Just experience it, allow it to happen.
Your natural abilities are yours to explore at your leisure, but it takes a bit more "work" or discipline if you will to consistently develop a new habit, whether it's exercise or interpreting the data from other probable selves and seeing what VALUE  and use it holds for you here and now other than curiosity.