I am a new user here. I am here to discuss Seth teachings with people who have read his books.
In the book, "The Nature of Personal Reality" Seth shares a technique to alter the past events.
Does it actually physically change the past as we know it or just our interpretation of the past event?
For example, I want to change an event in my past where I never met a certain person.
Thanks for your help!
Hello and Welcome Kavyareddy2 :)
Hi kavyareddy2, welcome to the forum.
Good question, we had a fairly lengthy discussion about this in the topic Changing the past: a story
, so maybe there's something there for you. https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=14613
Changing the past is probably one of the harder Seth concepts to grasp, because it involves simultaneous time (everything is happening in the now, and past, present and future are our impressions in this time-based reality), which is hard for most people to "know" on a deep level. Also if we DO change the past, would we even know we did? If an event no longer took place in the past, we'd probably have no memory of it. Or at best a foggy memory of "did that really happen, or was that a dream?" scenario. So if we change our past on a regular basis, as Seth says we do, it would be hard to have proof.
"I have told you that you can change the past. In doing so you change the self, by choosing from past experience those elements to which you shall and shall not react. This you can do."
—TPS1 Session 377 (Deleted) November 6, 1967
I don't know if you are aware there's a Seth search engine on the internet, but I always send people there because you can get a lot of information from a lot of different Seth books. https://findingseth.com/q/'changing+the+past'/
I decided to look at this Session 377 in the book, and there was some information I had not seen before. Here are some excerpts.
Quote from: SethRuburt has been adding to the strength of the negative influences of his past. The more he reacts to them the more throughly he convinces himself of their strength. His background was unfortunate. It was not as unfortunate as he supposes. Many of his most redeeming qualities and characteristics were formed by it.
This tells me Jane was actually reinforcing the negativity in her past by focusing on it, making it bigger than life. Just the opposite of what you should do if you want to change something.
Quote from: SethNow. You can change the past, and in do so change the present and the future. You can change the present, and in doing so change the past and the future. You can change the future, and in do so change the present and the past.
The exercises in the book Ruburt is reading [Psycho-Cybernetics by Maxwell Maltz] are excellent. With our added instruction they shall be even better. You will change yourself in the future by vital imagining today. You will put high expectations to work at once in this manner, and project a new image into tomorrow.
This projected image will of itself already alter the past and present. You will change your past, your reaction to it, by vividly imagining happy hours that you refused to focus upon. These pursuits in the present will automatically change the nature of the present.
I also have to consider unfortunate things that happen usually have a reason, such as Seth pointing out that Jane's redeeming qualities were a result of her difficult past. She learned something. Just a thought.
Welcome to the forum. :)
Seth talks about changing the past in several different places across his various books and sessions. In the spoilers below, I've listed some of the things that he's said about this topic (click on each of the spoilers below and they will open).
Some of us here use a kind of shorthand to define the location where Seth specifically talks about a topic in a specific Seth book, chapter and session number. For example, SS, Ch16, S566, refers to "Seth Speaks", Chapter 16, Session 566; TES1 = "The Early Sessions", Book 1, and DEaVF1 = Dreams, Evolution and Value Fulfillment, Book 1.
Not only does Seth strongly indicate that we can and do change our past in the first 3 spoilers below, he also gives us an example of this in the fourth spoiler in regards to how Rob's mother changed her past, after her husband (Rob's father) died.
Can people actually change their past? My personal belief is Yes, they can, but there are some caveats that come along this, as Seth explains in the second spoiler below; others can choose to either accept or reject your version.
About 2 years ago, my sister and I were talking about an event that we both participated in together, many years ago when we were both teenagers. Surprisingly to both of us, her memory of the event and mine were very different, in some specific places. In some places they were completely incompatible. We were both completely surprised and stumped by this. Neither one of us has any health issues or memory problems that could account for this.
My only explanation for this, is that perhaps at some point, one of us or maybe both of us either changed our past, or changed our belief about what happened in the past (perhaps this is the same thing). For me, it's not only what Seth says here about changing your past, that makes me think that we can actually change our past, but it's also this personal experience that I had with my sister.
I've never actually consciously tried to change my past, but I suspect that it can be done. Largely, like a lot of the things that Seth says in NOPR "Nature of Personal Reality", about belief, I also suspect that belief plays heavily into this. That is, if you "don't" believe that you can do this, then you probably won't be able to.
[spoiler=TES5, S234:][... 23 paragraphs ...]
On the other hand as I have told you, your past continually changes. It does not appear to change to you, for you change with it. You are not aware of the changes that have come about. The question of clairvoyance however is not at issue with information given concerning your past. Your future changes as your past changes. But clairvoyant information deals with the future, that is, precognitive clairvoyant information, and it is here that the issue shows itself.
We shall consider an example. Suppose that in the past you sat behind a John X in grade four. At the time you sat behind him, you liked him very much. He was then an agreeable fellow, and you considered him as such.
In grade six, let us suppose that you had a severe disagreement with this same John X, and then you disliked him thoroughly. He was a disagreeable fellow in your perceptions.
In twelfth grade you become fast friends. He is once again an agreeable fellow. You know him for several following years. Someone who is supposed to have psychic abilities looks into your past, and tells you that you sat behind a most disagreeable child. Most unlikeable in the earliest grade, and mentions the name John X.
You think that the information is wrong, for John X, you are convinced, is a friend of yours, has always been a friend of yours, and consciously you are convinced that you have always found him agreeable. Consciously you have forgotten the past, and you have remade it.
[spoiler=SS, Ch16, S566:][... 22 paragraphs ...]
Pretend a particular event happened that greatly disturbed you. In your mind imagine it not simply wiped out, but replaced by another event of more beneficial nature. Now this must be done with great vividness and emotional validity, and many times. It is not a self-deception. The event that you choose will automatically be a probable event, which did in fact happen, though it is not the event you chose to perceive in your given probable past.
(10:24.) Telepathically, if the process is done correctly, your idea will also affect any people who were connected with the original event, though they can choose to reject as well as accept your version.
[spoiler=NOPR, Ch14, S654:][... 4 paragraphs ...]
The fact remains that there are probable past events that "can still happen" within your personal previous experience. A new event can literally be born in the past — "now."
[... 1 paragraph ...]
A new belief in the present, however, can cause changes in the past on a neuronal level. You must understand that basically time is simultaneous. Present beliefs can indeed alter the past. In some cases of healing, in the spontaneous disappearance of cancer, for instance, or of any other disease, certain alterations are made that affect cellular memory, genetic codes, or neuronal patterns in the past.
In such instances there is, as easily as I can explain it, a reaching into deep biological structures as they existed at one time; at that point the probabilities are altered, and the condition erased in your present — but also in your past.
[spoiler=DEaVF1, Ch3, S891:][...]
(To me:) Your mother did not simply choose to believe, in her old age, in a different past than the one that was accepted by the family—she effectively changed probabilities. She was not deluded or obsessed. Her memory in that regard, now, was not defective: It was the memory of the probable woman that she became.2
NOTES. Session 891
2. Here Seth referred to the striking way in which my mother, Stella Butts, had recreated for the better her "memories" of her husband (my father). Robert Butts, Sr., died in February 1971, 34 months before she did. All of the members of the Butts family observed the pronounced changes in Stella's thinking about her husband, although Jane and I were the only ones who ascribed those changes to her moving into another probable reality.
Intriguing thread. Thank you to jbseth for posting the links to Seth's comments on changing the past. That work takes time and effort, but it is part of what makes this forum such a valuable place.
I had an experience a few months ago where I entered my childhood home when my elderly mother, who now lives there alone, was away in another state. Immediately upon entering the front door I had an experience I had never had before--a searing pain went through my body, and I felt at once hollow and filled with despair. I assumed it had to do with unhappy body memories from old associations with my childhood home. Although my childhood wasn't perfect, it was nothing like Jane's, just to be clear. :) We're talking about garden-variety hurts here, for the most part, but in that moment, they happened to hurt like hell.
Seth's concept of changing one's past came to my mind very quickly, and I got busy vividly creating happy "memories" that I could feel to the tips of my toes. I spent about an hour each morning for a couple of weeks doing this. I started by imagining myself as a damp newborn being cradled by my two adoring parents, I imagined being a toddler exploring bugs and flowers in nature while holding hands with my engaged and encouraging parents, and on and on through the years. I feel that I have successfully created a new past to some degree, and encourage others to engage in the actions Seth describes! It is not, though, that the past you now know becomes erased; it is that the past you now consider yours becomes probable to the new you of the present moment. My spirit is a little lighter now. Without even thinking about it, I now act and react in the way that a person with the kind of childhood I spent days vividly imagining acts and reacts. There is not a dramatic difference; it is subtle, but distinct. And I felt it immediately each day, while engaging in the creation of these happy "memories", and afterward. Best wishes to kavyareddy2, and anyone else who gives it a shot.
Quote from: leidl (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=16854#msg16854)
It is not, though, that the past you now know becomes erased; it is that the past you now consider yours becomes probable to the new you of the present moment.
Wow that is absolutely awesome. Thank you for sharing that wonderful story. :)
I apologize for not responding sooner, for some reason I only just recognized your post here today.
It sounds to me like you really grasped this concept.
It's about changing your past by acknowledging that probable pasts do exist and are every bit as legitimate as the past that we expereienced. It's also about acknowledging and accepting a different probable past than the one you experienced and a belief that this probable past, was, in fact, your past.
Somewhere in the vast amount of Seth information, I recall reading something from Seth where he talked about people who, for example, experience a complete spontaneous remission from some disease like cancer. Seth said that something like this occurs with spontaneous remissions.
For a person who does this, from their present where they have cancer, they reach back into the past, from a time before they had the cancer, and choose a different probable future for themselves. A probably future, that does not involve cancer. Then, when they successfully do this, they become cancer free in the present. How awesome is that? The power of belief!
On top of this, it also turns out that disease doesn't appear to be connected to a person's body, even though many people probably think that it is. What am I talking about? There is a story, in Chapter 4 of the book, "The Holographic Universe", by Michael Talbot, where we hear about a person with DID (Dissociated Identity Disorder, this use to be called multiple personalities). For this person, all but one of his personalities, were allergic to orange juice. Whenever this one personality drank orange juice, there were no problems. However if any of his other personalities drank orange juice they would break out in a severe rash. How can that possibly occur, if it's the body itself that contains the allergy? In this book, the author gives us several other interesting things that people with DID have experienced along these lines via their different personalities.
These types of stories, from sources other than Seth, make me think that Seth is really onto something when he talks about spontaneous remissions. They also make me think that he might be right that likewise it might also be possible to change our past from the present.
How awesome, for you.
Thank you very much for sharing this wonderful experience leidl
Quote from: jbseth (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=16883#msg16883)
For this person, all but one of his personalities, were allergic to orange juice. Whenever this one personality drank orange juice, there were no problems. However if any of his other personalities drank orange juice they would break out in a severe rash. How can that possibly occur, if it's the body itself that contains the allergy?
jbseth, thank you for your warm response. I must read Talbot's book! At some point I'd like to research studies that have been done on the placebo effect. We know that a fair amount of people respond to placebos as if they were real drugs, but I'd love to know why some people respond, and not others. Are the responders the people who are most confident in the drugs and doctors? In cancer treatment, there are people who seem to respond perfectly to chemo and radiation, and they're called "super-responders." Science thinks they just happened to get a treatment that aligned perfectly with their tumor type and genetics, but perhaps what's going on is they are "super-believers."
After my stay at my mother's house as described in my previous post, I returned to my own home in another state. I immediately called up a friend of mine who deals with a challenging amount of psychological pain, and told her about the experience, thinking she might find it encouraging. She wasn't overly enthused. I suspect stories like mine sound like cases of self-hypnosis to people who are not familiar with the viewpoint that reality reduces to consciousness, rather than matter. Hypnosis is viewed as "tricking yourself into believing something," if you don't see consciousness as fundamental. Once we begin to accept that reality is infinitely cascading modulations of consciousness, then there is no material self to be "tricked into believing something," there is only consciousness itself. Why not make that consciousness pleasant? :-)
Deb made a great comment in her post about the importance of not reinforcing negative elements of our pasts by dwelling on them. For anyone reading, when you find yourself in a light and optimistic mood, this is the easiest time to incrementally shift your reality.
jbseth, your experience with your sister is so interesting. Have you tried exploring other memories together, to see how different they are? I wonder if you could pinpoint the approximate period where probable selves started new trajectories. What I wouldn't give to see the Venn diagram of my family's probable selves!
Quote from: leidl (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=16888#msg16888)
jbseth, your experience with your sister is so interesting. Have you tried exploring other memories together, to see how different they are? I wonder if you could pinpoint the approximate period where probable selves started new trajectories.
Regarding the placebo effect, I think Michael Talbot also talks about this in his book, "The Holographic Universe". I know that Joe Dispenza has also written some books about this, and I think Deb, our forum host, is familiar with some of his information.
My sister, Debbie, who I was talking about, and I grew up together, she is 2 years older than me. My other siblings were all 6 or more years older than me. This is the only event like this that I've ever had with any of my family members.
Debbie and I only talk on occasion, she and I live about 1500 miles away from each other, but whenever we do, we reminisce a lot. We were about 15 years old when this event occurred and in our mid 60's when I recognized the difference in our beliefs about what occurred back then. I don't recall ever talking with her about this specific event previously and so I don't actually know when this probable split occurred.
Regarding probable selves, in UR1, S681, Seth tells Rob that he had a probable self who died when Rob was 11 years old, of an operation. He also talks about a probable Rob, who was a airplane pilot during ww2.
Quote from: leidl (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=16888#msg16888)
At some point I'd like to research studies that have been done on the placebo effect. We know that a fair amount of people respond to placebos as if they were real drugs, but I'd love to know why some people respond, and not others.
Leidl, great story about your mother's house, and great work on your part!
If you really are interested in the placebo effect, I highly recommend reading Joe Dispenza's You Are the Placebo: Making Your Mind Matter
. I have the audio version and will probably listen to it again on an upcoming road trip. The printed version, and probably the Kindle version, have end notes with the references to the examples and studies he writes about in the book. In a way, Joe pretty much teaches what Seth did, but from a scientific angle. It all comes down to beliefs and expectations. While Seth teaches how that works for us behind the scene, Joe writes about the physical processes involved.
In the book Joe writes about an experiment that was done with a bunch of elderly men in various stages of physical degeneration. They put them in a house (in the country) that was decorated with furnishings from the past, from when the men would have been in their prime. TVs and radios only played shows and music from that same time period. Everything they were surrounded by was from the "good old days." By the end the experiment the men's physical conditions were reversing, they became more lively, even got together a game of touch football. One person shed his walker. Sorry my details are fuzzy, it's been 6 years since I read the book. But that experiment really impressed me.
The book description here will tell you more:
Hello jbseth and Deb,
Okay, I've got my reading assignments for the coming week or two--thank you both. I like to read books on the science-y end of things; I teach philosophy and am uncomfortable getting caught with too much "woo" on my bookshelves. :-) In fact I've got no one to discuss Seth with, which is why I'm exploring this site right now.
From what I've read of the Seth material, which is quite a bit, his ideas all dovetail with each other very well. I've yet to come across two ideas of his that conflict. His ideas deserve more attention than they the get, from multiple disciplines, but perhaps this is always the case with channeled material.
Talbot and Dispenza both look really interesting! Deb, the experiment with the elderly men would make an excellent documentary. It would be so powerful to watch those men come to life together. It might be interesting to just immerse oneself in favorite books and movies from the past for a few weeks, and see what happens.
jbseth, I'm wondering how one can distinguish between faulty memory and differences in memory that are a result of the creation of probable selves. Once a year my mom and I drive a thousand miles together, and we do reminisce a bit. We often notice differences in our memories, but I've always attributed it to my mom's age. I'll pay more attention to these conversations; I'd never really looked at them through a Sethian lens. Yes, I read Unknown Reality a few weeks back, and I remember the discussion of Rob's probable selves--fascinating stuff!
Quote from: leidl (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=16905#msg16905)
jbseth, I'm wondering how one can distinguish between faulty memory and differences in memory that are a result of the creation of probable selves.
If you like science-y books, then I think you'll really like the Talbot book.
Regarding false memories, maybe all false memories are really nothing more than memories from probable realities. :)
I actually bought a used copy of Holographic Universe on your recommendation, jbseth. It's on my to-read shelf. I wish I could find it as an audio book, I have one heck of a road trip coming up soon and would love to get some "reading" done. Lynne McTaggart wrote the forward to the book, she's another great author. I enjoyed The Field, and would like to read The Intention Experiment (https://smile.amazon.com/Intention-Experiment-Using-Thoughts-Change-ebook/dp/B000N0WTBU/ref=sr_1_2?crid=GP5PD4P2A2NH&dchild=1&keywords=the+intention+experiment+by+lynne+mctaggart&qid=1600785616&s=digital-text&sprefix=the+intention+experiment%2Cdigital-text%2C186&sr=1-2): Using Your Thoughts to Change Your Life and the World. That one is available as audio.
"'Drawing on the findings of leading scientists from around the world, "The Intention Experiment is an extraordinary advance in our understanding of consciousness as a field of all possibilities where intention orchestrates its own fulfillment. If you want to empower yourself and use the laws of intention to manifest your material reality, read this book' (Deepak Chopra)."
I had no idea, but apparently Michael Talbot has written some popular fiction books (https://smile.amazon.com/Michael-Talbot/e/B001HCWNFK?ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_2&qid=1600785540&sr=8-2) too!
Unfortunately, Michael Talbot died in 1992, about a year after he wrote "The Holographic Universe".
This might be one reason why it's difficult to find this book in audio format. It may not have ever been put into audio format.