~Speaking of Seth~

Maybe I give people too much credit, but I try to see those who seem to be choosing to DIE (because they don't like the government?) as not simply too stupid to live. Are we witnessing mass protests in which individual deaths are intended to "make a statement"? What would Seth say about all this seemingly mindless insanity? Here is an excerpt from The Nature of Mass Events that addresses this question:

" Now: To a certain extent (underlined), epidemics are the result of a mass suicide phenomenon on the parts of those involved. Biological, sociological, or even economic factors may be involved, in that for a variety of reasons, and at different levels, whole groups of individuals want to die at any given time — but in such a way that their individual deaths amount to a mass statement.

On one level the deaths are a protest against the time in which they occur. Those involved have private reasons, however. The reasons, of course, vary from one individual to another, yet all involved "want their death to serve a purpose" beyond private concerns. Partially, then, such deaths are meant to make the survivors question the conditions (dash) — for unconsciously the species well knows there are reasons for such mass deaths that go beyond accepted beliefs."
—NoME Chapter 1: Session 802, April 25, 1977

Is this what we are now witnessing? I hope this isn't too inflammatory a topic, because I'm trying to get beyond the warlike mentality. I'm really at a loss to say what kind of statement or purpose these deaths might serve.

Quote from: KylePierce (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=20060#msg20060)
Is this what we are now witnessing? I hope this isn't too inflammatory a topic, because I'm trying to get beyond the warlike mentality. I'm really at a loss to say what kind of statement or purpose these deaths might serve.

Kyle, an uncle of mine died in April 2020, at the age of 93. He had been in a Care Home for 4years. He had been investigating spiritual ideas from the age of about 70. He was a kind-hearted man who was well liked by all those he came into contact with. It is likely that he died of Covid, although testing was not widely done in the UK at that time. I was discouraged from attending his funeral because of Covid precautions. It seems to me likely that he chose to die of Covid because the time was right for him to leave this existence. I don't think there was "protest" involved in this instance.

Sena, I'm sorry for the loss of your uncle. He certainly doesn't belong in the category of "deaths of protest". I don't know about the UK, but in the USA this is an all-too-well-known phenomenon that is crippling our health care system.

Deaths before vaccines were available may not be able to be lumped as easily into categories of why they "chose" to die. We know though that these days, the vast majority of those who are dying or getting seriously ill are the unvaccinated. Among those, the largest group might be those who are eligible but have chosen not to be vaccinated. Discounting those whose choice was for religious reasons or who waited for the FDA's full approval, we are down to those whose choice was for reasons of "personal freedom" and an opportunity to vent about that. These tend to be people who are angry with society and are vulnerable to various conspiracy theories and social media falsehoods. Like those who stormed the Capitol in January, they are basically dissatisfied with their lives and looking for some way to lash out and blame someone else for their pathetic lives and also to find a savior that they can trust, whether that is horse dewormer or someone talking about Jewish space lasers. Sorry about touching on politics, but unless someone is offended by me bringing up horse dewormer or Jewish space lasers, I can't help you. Anyway, many of them are now filling our ICUs and choosing to pass on, perhaps because they simply cannot make sense of the world anymore when their deeply held beliefs are constantly being challenged by reality. My opinion, fwiw.

Before I get started here, since a few of you are following this topic, I wanted to let you know that I'm in the process of safely testing the new major software update for the forum. Simple Machines is using the new version on their own website, which tells me they got the majority of the kinks out of it. So if you come here in the next few days and see this site in Maintenance Mode, that's what's going on.

So, son of a gun, my neighbor tested positive for covid on Sunday. He's been pretty sick, but his doctor prescribed monoclonal antibodies and horse wormer, er, rather, an ivermecton "cocktail" similar to what Joe Rogan probably had. No, he did not go to a vet. Yes, I did use the horse version as a wormer when I had a horse.

My neighbor was vaccinated, but the doctor said the vaccines are not designed to deal with the new variants. I'm no doctor, just reporting what I heard.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7539925/ - Ivermectin: an award-winning drug with expected antiviral activity against COVID-19
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043740/ - Ivermectin, 'Wonder drug' from Japan: the human use perspective

"The 2015 Nobel Prize in Physiology and Medicine was awarded to William C. Campbell and Satoshi Ömura for their discoveries leading to ivermectin [1]. In addition to its extraordinary efficacy against parasitic diseases, ivermectin continues to offer new clinical applications due to its ability to be repurposed to treat new classes of diseases. Beyond its invaluable therapeutic role in onchocerciasis and strongyloidiasis, an increasing body of evidence points to the potential of ivermectin as an antiviral agent."

So, don't take what the news says too seriously. :)

We've talked a lot here about covid, the "whys" behind it. Seth, the quote at the top, said "To a certain extent (underlined), epidemics are a result of a mass suicide..." etc. Personally I can't figure out what sociological or economic woes would be solved by an epidemic like this one. It could be meant as a warning to ourselves to stop trying to find faster and more efficient weapons, or even messing with things we shouldn't. Seth also said people who are ready to die will use something like this to have an "acceptable" out from life.

While I'm not a conspiracy theorist, I find it a remarkable coincidence that the pandemic originated in a city that had TWO labs studying and experimenting with bat coronaviruses. The regular Wuhan lab has a biolab safety rating (https://consteril.com/biosafety-levels-difference/) of level 4 ("highly dangerous and exotic microbes. Infections caused by these types of microbes are frequently fatal"). The other is level 3 (Wuhan University Center for Animal Experiment ) which in my mind should not have been experimenting with infecting genetically humanized mice with bat coronaviruses. That makes it even harder for me to swallow that this all started because someone brought a bat home for dinner from a wet market.

Bioterror (https://news.stanford.edu/pr/01/bioterror117.html) is nothing new, although I'm not saying the research was specifically for that purpose because I have no idea. The world has been, I think, cautious with atomic weapons since WWII. The Holocaust was also a big lesson for the world. My thought is this could be another warning for us to wise up. China is not the only country that has been studying things like this. We all need to learn to respect life, all consciousness, or we're going to have to start all over again. According to Seth, it wouldn't be the first time.

"There have been various periods that were peaceful, but there was no equality. There have been countless other civilizations that have destroyed themselves in the planet's past, and before this when another planet was approximately in earth's position. There were however civilizations that endured, that outlasted their planet, and went elsewhere."
—TES9 Session 452 December 2, 1968

Anyway, my two cents worth.

Since I brought up the horse dewormer, I should clarify that many of these people were not using it in a safe manner and had very adverse reactions. Some are using it as a preventative or self-medicating when they suspect that they have the virus. There may very well be safe methods under a doctor's supervision that could help treat the virus. The news simply reports what doctors are telling them. With the dewormer being new and rare as a Covid-19 treatment, there is likely not much statistical evidence as to its effectiveness and safety when used under medical supervision. That many choose to trust this more than a fully-FDA-approved highly effective vaccine because the vaccine is really a way for the "deep state" to kill us all or at least track our locations or make us sterile indicates severe paranoia and fear.

This really happened:
Doctor to Covid patient in an ICU: "If you recover, will you get the vaccine?"
Patient: "No, I don't want an experimental drug in my body."
Doctor: "What we are treating you with right now is an experimental drug."

Quote from: Deb (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=20068#msg20068)
My neighbor was vaccinated, but the doctor said the vaccines are not designed to deal with the new variants. I'm no doctor, just reporting what I heard.

That doctor is in the minority on that. All indications are that the vaccines are still highly effective against the Delta variant for reducing the chances of death or hospitalization. The unvaccinated are 11 times more likely to die from Covid than the vaccinated. The vaccines were not "designed" to deal with variants that did not exist at the time, but at least with Delta, they work almost as well.

Quote from: Deb (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=20068#msg20068)
While I'm not a conspiracy theorist, I find it a remarkable coincidence that the pandemic originated in a city that had TWO labs studying and experimenting with bat coronaviruses.

Deb, since the Covid pandemic, the Chinese economy has been booming and outdoing most other big economies.

https://indianexpress.com/article/business/world-market/a-year-after-covid-began-chinas-economy-is-beating-world-7147278/

QuoteChina's economic ascent is accelerating barely a year after its first coronavirus lockdowns, as its success in controlling Covid-19 allows it to boost its share of global trade and investment.

The world's second-largest economy is set on Monday to report gross domestic product increased 2.1% in 2020, the only major economy to have avoided a contraction, according to a Bloomberg survey of economists.

That should ensure its share of the world economy rose at the fastest pace this century.

Quote from: LarryH (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=20071#msg20071)

Quote from: Deb (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=20068#msg20068)
My neighbor was vaccinated, but the doctor said the vaccines are not designed to deal with the new variants. I'm no doctor, just reporting what I heard.

That doctor is in the minority on that. All indications are that the vaccines are still highly effective against the Delta variant for reducing the chances of death or hospitalization. The unvaccinated are 11 times more likely to die from Covid than the vaccinated. The vaccines were not "designed" to deal with variants that did not exist at the time, but at least with Delta, they work almost as well.

Thank you, LarryH. This situation is not really one that's open to lots of interpretations. The unvaccinated are 11 times more likely to die from Covid than the vaccinated. Eleven times. This is the latest from the CDC. It is not some fantasy number that someone just made up and then pretends it's the gospel truth. And you don't have to be a biostatistician or an epidemiologist to understand the import of this number. At least, one would hope not. Of course, if one thinks the CDC is a hostile foreign power, then all bets are off.

Quote from: Sena (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=20072#msg20072)
Deb, since the Covid pandemic, the Chinese economy has been booming and outdoing most other big economies.

Wow. While covid has crushed a lot of people and businesses, it's amazing that China has instead grown financially. There have been some other businesses that have also done so, either by necessity of their services, or ingenuity. A very strange experience for me, and something to contemplate.

https://www.sorryantivaxxer.com

If you haven't been there, this person is basically collecting stories about those who are not vaccinated and have died of COVID.  It sounds morbid and it is.  The comments after each post are brutal to the point of the owner of the site having to tell people to tone it down.  Yet I find the site to be interesting.  It's like a window into the mindset of the antivax community.  One would think that seeing all of these completely unnecessary deaths might changes some minds, but it really doesn't seem to.  They're still dropping.  They're still refusing to take the vaccine.

There's a lot of things that they believe 100% that I find absolutely ridiculous.  But they believe them and to them, thinking the vaccine is anything other than a danger to mankind is just as absolutely ridiculous.

There's a lot of frustration in the comments about the unnecessary nature of the deaths and why won't these people just listen.  I read a comment on one of the posts that I think explains it.  The comment said that there are basically two Americas now - the left and the right.  And they are 100 percent separated.  The left has a set of beliefs and the right has another set of beliefs.  And because of how the media works these days, it is virtually impossible for one side to see what the other side sees.  What we see on Facebook is curated based on what we search on and what we click.  Aside from a few completely unbiased sources, the media is biased to swing one way or the other.  Everything that the anti-vaxxers read and see and hear is telling them that vaccines are dangerous, masks keep in carbon dioxide, and everything about this is a violation of our freedoms.  They do not see anything that tells them different and if they do, they've been conditioned to see it as a ridiculous fabrication.  And it goes the other way too.

Of course some information leaks across the line and people can change their minds.  But we are controlled and conditioned by what we read, what we see, and who we associate with.  The idea that COVID is fake or something that was created by the world to keep trump from being reelected is absolutely ludicrous but to those that believe it, it is THE TRUTH.  To them, COVID is a convenient thing to control the population and take away rights.

I think it's ridiculous and  nobody's going to ever change my mind about it.  They see it as the truth, and nobody's going to change their minds either.

I'm sorry if this crossed into politics.  It wasn't my intention.  I just wanted to explain a realistic theory that I read for how this divide has become so strong.  I for one am very against politics being a thing on this forum.  If want to talk politics, there are about a zillion other places to do it.  I'm very grateful that this isn't one of them.

Quote from: usmaak (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=20077#msg20077)
If you haven't been there, this person is basically collecting stories about those who are not vaccinated and have died of COVID.  It sounds morbid and it is.

usmaak, if 90% of the world's population believe that Covid 19 is nasty, and that the vaccines work well against it, Covid 19 WILL be nasty, and vaccines will work well against it. I am not an anti-vaxxer at present; I have had both doses. It is difficult to isolate oneself from a Mass Event. The population of Earth need to nullify the belief that there are more nasty viruses to come. More people need to read Seth. If even 10% of the population had read Seth, Covid 19 may not have happened.

Scientists need to come up with a vaccine that will protect against ALL viruses, the Killemall vaccine.

Quote from: Sena (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=20078#msg20078)

Quote from: usmaak (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=20077#msg20077)
If you haven't been there, this person is basically collecting stories about those who are not vaccinated and have died of COVID.  It sounds morbid and it is.

usmaak, if 90% of the world's population believe that Covid 19 is nasty, and that the vaccines work well against it, Covid 19 WILL be nasty, and vaccines will work well against it. I am not an anti-vaxxer at present; I have had both doses. It is difficult to isolate oneself from a Mass Event. The population of Earth need to nullify the belief that there are more nasty viruses to come. More people need to read Seth. If even 10% of the population had read Seth, Covid 19 may not have happened.

Scientists need to come up with a vaccine that will protect against ALL viruses, the Killemall vaccine.

Yeah.  Good luck with that.  The world can't agree on anything and it's just getting worse. ;D  The mass belief in viruses is strong and ain't going anywhere.  I wish more people would read Seth as well, but it seems pretty fringe.  It's just easier for people to pick up and understand The Secret or one of the other millions of those books out there and get a watered down and incomplete version of it all.

If I'm reading Seth correctly, then at any time I can change my beliefs about COVID and the vaccines, regardless of the mass reality of it all.  I should be able to walk among those infected with it and not worry about it.  But I've never understood more than 5% of Seth.

And be careful with killemall.  There are a lot of beneficial viruses out there. ;)

Quote from: usmaak (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=20077#msg20077)
One would think that seeing all of these completely unnecessary deaths might changes some minds, but it really doesn't seem to.  They're still dropping.  They're still refusing to take the vaccine.

One thing I can take away from this is that people are acting out of their pain as well as their beliefs. They aren't consciously choosing death, maybe, but they are almost automatically making the choices that lead to their death. This truly creeps me out, that people are reaching the point where they seemingly don't care if they live or die. And I haven't even looked at that site... not likely to, either.

Quote from: KylePierce (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=20082#msg20082)

Quote from: usmaak (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=20077#msg20077)
One would think that seeing all of these completely unnecessary deaths might changes some minds, but it really doesn't seem to.  They're still dropping.  They're still refusing to take the vaccine.

One thing I can take away from this is that people are acting out of their pain as well as their beliefs. They aren't consciously choosing death, maybe, but they are almost automatically making the choices that lead to their death. This truly creeps me out, that people are reaching the point where they seemingly don't care if they live or die. And I haven't even looked at that site... not likely to, either.

I don't know.  They genuinely believe everything they say and the 100% believe in the actions that lead to their deaths.  It's sad to see all of this wasted life.

Quote from: usmaak (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=20079#msg20079)
If I'm reading Seth correctly, then at any time I can change my beliefs about COVID and the vaccines, regardless of the mass reality of it all.  I should be able to walk among those infected with it and not worry about it.

usmaak, Seth is very clear that the time of death is known. Anyone, even a Seth reader, might catch the Covid 19 virus and get some kind of illness, but they will not die unless it is the pre-arranged date and time of death:

Quote"It seems, perhaps, easier to have no conscious idea of the year or time that death might occur. Unconsciously of course each man and woman knows, and yet hides the knowledge. The knowledge is usually hidden for many reasons, but the fact of death, personal death, is never forgotten. It seems obvious, but the full enjoyment of life would be impossible in the framework, now, of earthly reality without the knowledge of death." (from "The Nature of Personal Reality: Specific, Practical Techniques for Solving Everyday Problems and Enriching the Life You Know (A Seth Book)" by Jane Roberts)

Kindle edition: https://amzn.eu/bRT5lww

Quote from: KylePierce (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=20082#msg20082)
They aren't consciously choosing death, maybe, but they are almost automatically making the choices that lead to their death.

Kyle, yes, some vaccine refusers may be unconsciously choosing death. But even the best Covid 19 vaccines are only 90% effective, so even someone who has had the vaccine will die if it is the chosen time of death. Someone who really believes that he will not die of Covid, will not die even if he refuses the vaccine.

Quote from: Sena (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=20085#msg20085)
Someone who really believes that he will not die of Covid, will not die even if he refuses the vaccine.

The morgues are filled with people who refused the vaccine and at least stated that they really believed that they would not die of Covid. Maybe they didn't really believe what they were saying, but they had to go along with their spouse, their friends, the people they voted for, and the commentators on Fox News. It was their patriotic duty to disbelieve Dr. Fauci. After all, didn't he change his mind a few times (a.k.a. "lied")?

Quote from: LarryH (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=20086#msg20086)
The morgues are filled with people who refused the vaccine and at least stated that they really believed that they would not die of Covid.

Larry, were you in telepathic communication with these people?

Quote from: Sena (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=20087#msg20087)
Larry, were you in telepathic communication with these people?

No, as I said, they "at least stated that they really believed that they would not die of Covid. Maybe they didn't really believe what they were saying..."
This is just to note that peoples' words don't always match their beliefs. This might speak to conscious vs. unconscious beliefs. But as I have said before, I have a belief that I will not be killed crossing the street, and yet I have this silly idea that I should still look both ways before crossing the street.

Quote from: LarryH (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=20088#msg20088)
No, as I said, they "at least stated that they really believed that they would not die of Covid. Maybe they didn't really believe what they were saying..."

Larry, what is the source of your information? Even if they stated they would not die of Covid, we do not know what they really believed unless we have telepathic insight into their minds.

Quote from: Sena (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=20091#msg20091)
Larry, what is the source of your information? Even if they stated they would not die of Covid, we do not know what they really believed unless we have telepathic insight into their minds.

Sena, I only said what they stated. I admitted that we don't know what they actually believed. I don't have to be telepathic to know what they said. I have seen reports of these statements from multiple sources. Just go to the link above in usmaak's reply no. 10 above for some examples. My comments do not challenge your comment above:

Quote from: Sena (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=20085#msg20085)
Someone who really believes that he will not die of Covid, will not die even if he refuses the vaccine.

It is more to the point that we cannot really know what someone really believes based on their statements. If someone says they will not die of Covid and then dies of Covid, it would appear that they are either lying or not in touch with their beliefs (which are likely unconscious).

Quote from: Sena (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=20085#msg20085)

Quote from: KylePierce (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=20082#msg20082)
They aren't consciously choosing death, maybe, but they are almost automatically making the choices that lead to their death.

Kyle, yes, some vaccine refusers may be unconsciously choosing death. But even the best Covid 19 vaccines are only 90% effective, so even someone who has had the vaccine will die if it is the chosen time of death. Someone who really believes that he will not die of Covid, will not die even if he refuses the vaccine.

Sena, maybe we could just agree that, following Seth, someone who is not ready to die will not die of Covid. When this conversation goes on to making assertions about totally impossible-to-know things like belief, well... it risks becoming comical, even though I don't think you're trying to be funny. It reminds me of a Norm McDonald joke, you seem so deadpan serious when you say these things.

(I've been watching the late Norm McDonald on video a lot lately). :( :)

Quote from: KylePierce on September 19, 2021, 10:57:31 AMSena, maybe we could just agree that, following Seth, someone who is not ready to die will not die of Covid.

Kyle, you and I would agree on that, but I don't think Larry would. My posts above were attempts to encourage Larry to clarify his position on this topic.

Quote from: Sena on September 20, 2021, 12:47:59 AM

Quote from: KylePierce on September 19, 2021, 10:57:31 AMSena, maybe we could just agree that, following Seth, someone who is not ready to die will not die of Covid.

Kyle, you and I would agree on that, but I don't think Larry would. My posts above were attempts to encourage Larry to clarify his position on this topic.

Sena, did you miss my clarification? I agree with both of you. I can only assume that you disagree that people often say they believe something that they don't really believe. But that is the only possibility if we follow Seth.

From a news column today: "News stories are full of people who gambled believing they could self-medicate, taking various remedies only to deteriorate and die. Five anti-vax radio talk hosts, who also gambled and believed they could handle it, have died in the last month."

In a Sethian context, these people chose to die. By being anti-vax, they may have chosen "how" to die. Frankly, I would rather be hit by a truck than slowly suffocate to death.

Quote from: LarryH on September 20, 2021, 09:40:32 AMIn a Sethian context, these people chose to die. By being anti-vax, they may have chosen "how" to die. Frankly, I would rather be hit by a truck than slowly suffocate to death.

Larry, thanks for the clarification. It is the mechanical ventilator which causes a lot of suffering to Covid patients. My understanding of Seth is that those who choose to die can die without undue suffering. If someone chooses to die, there are less painful means than being hit by a truck.

Quote from: Sena on September 20, 2021, 10:26:30 AMLarry, thanks for the clarification. It is the mechanical ventilator which causes a lot of suffering to Covid patients. My understanding of Seth is that those who choose to die can die without undue suffering.

My two sisters and father have all been on ventilators. In all cases, the vents kept them alive. My sisters could not remember their experience. I was only able to speak to my dad while he was intubated. I asked him if he was comfortable, and he nodded yes. Then next day, as they removed him from the ventilator, he had a cardiac arrest and died. My mom and I were able to spend time with him the day before (without the vent, he would have died earlier). Ventilated patients are sedated to minimize their discomfort, assuming they are even conscious. If ventilation succeeds in raising their O2Sat levels, they no longer feel like they are suffocating. Even for those who end up dying, the ventilators allow families to say good-bye (over zoom or facetime in cases of Covid). There is no question that ventilators have saved countless lives, Covid and otherwise. If Seth said that people know when they will die, I don't think that necessarily means that they cannot change their minds.

You may recall that I designed the most widely used high-end life support ventilator in the world. That being said, I am OK with your opinion about ventilators. I suggest that if you have not done so, you write up an advanced care directive stating that you never want to be put on life support.

Quote from: LarryH on September 20, 2021, 11:11:31 AMThere is no question that ventilators have saved countless lives, Covid and otherwise. If Seth said that people know when they will die, I don't think that necessarily means that they cannot change their minds.

I think that I remember reading somewhere in Seth Speaks or Nature of Personal Reality that someone can always change their mind and take a different path.

Quote from: KylePierce on September 15, 2021, 09:26:38 AMMaybe I give people too much credit, but I try to see those who seem to be choosing to DIE (because they don't like the government?) as not simply too stupid to live. Are we witnessing mass protests in which individual deaths are intended to "make a statement"? What would Seth say about all this seemingly mindless insanity? Here is an excerpt from The Nature of Mass Events that addresses this question:

" Now: To a certain extent (underlined), epidemics are the result of a mass suicide phenomenon on the parts of those involved. Biological, sociological, or even economic factors may be involved, in that for a variety of reasons, and at different levels, whole groups of individuals want to die at any given time — but in such a way that their individual deaths amount to a mass statement.

On one level the deaths are a protest against the time in which they occur. Those involved have private reasons, however. The reasons, of course, vary from one individual to another, yet all involved "want their death to serve a purpose" beyond private concerns. Partially, then, such deaths are meant to make the survivors question the conditions (dash) — for unconsciously the species well knows there are reasons for such mass deaths that go beyond accepted beliefs."
—NoME Chapter 1: Session 802, April 25, 1977

Is this what we are now witnessing? I hope this isn't too inflammatory a topic, because I'm trying to get beyond the warlike mentality. I'm really at a loss to say what kind of statement or purpose these deaths might serve.

There is nothing wrong with protesting. There is nothing wrong with experiencing this.
Why would you be at a "loss" because of what someone else is doing.  Its their life path.

Quote from: LarryH on September 15, 2021, 12:46:55 PMDeaths before vaccines were available may not be able to be lumped as easily into categories of why they "chose" to die. We know though that these days, the vast majority of those who are dying or getting seriously ill are the unvaccinated. Among those, the largest group might be those who are eligible but have chosen not to be vaccinated. Discounting those whose choice was for religious reasons or who waited for the FDA's full approval, we are down to those whose choice was for reasons of "personal freedom" and an opportunity to vent about that. These tend to be people who are angry with society and are vulnerable to various conspiracy theories and social media falsehoods. Like those who stormed the Capitol in January, they are basically dissatisfied with their lives and looking for some way to lash out and blame someone else for their pathetic lives and also to find a savior that they can trust, whether that is horse dewormer or someone talking about Jewish space lasers. Sorry about touching on politics, but unless someone is offended by me bringing up horse dewormer or Jewish space lasers, I can't help you. Anyway, many of them are now filling our ICUs and choosing to pass on, perhaps because they simply cannot make sense of the world anymore when their deeply held beliefs are constantly being challenged by reality. My opinion, fwiw.

wow man lol
That is a lot of OLC

yeah blame it ALL ON US LOL

I will never take the injection

Quote from: strangerthings on September 20, 2021, 05:14:43 PMwow man lol
That is a lot of OLC

yeah blame it ALL ON US LOL

I will never take the injection

Don't know what "OLC" is.
My post was not about blame. Care to explain?
You can choose not to take the injection. Would you mind saying why? No pressure.

Quote

Quote from: Sena (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=20087#msg20087)Larry, were you in telepathic communication with these people?

No, as I said, they "at least stated that they really believed that they would not die of Covid. Maybe they didn't really believe what they were saying..."
This is just to note that peoples' words don't always match their beliefs. This might speak to conscious vs. unconscious beliefs. But as I have said before, I have a belief that I will not be killed crossing the street, and yet I have this silly idea that I should still look both ways before crossing the street.

and people really believe they will die of cancer

what gives here?

Im safe from all serious illness just not covid when I KNOW I have a super powerful immune system ? Is that what you are saying?

Its all or nothing baby! You cant serve two masters

Quote from: LarryH on September 20, 2021, 05:34:27 PM

Quote from: strangerthings on September 20, 2021, 05:14:43 PMwow man lol
That is a lot of OLC

yeah blame it ALL ON US LOL

I will never take the injection

Don't know what "OLC" is.
My post was not about blame. Care to explain?
You can choose not to take the injection. Would you mind saying why? No pressure.

Official Line of Consciousness OLC

And yeah you kinda did blame the un "vaxd" on filling ICUs blah blah and equated them to jan 6 protesters lol

as far as my reason why

I AM A WORTHY DESERVING PERSON
I HAVE A RIGHT TO MY LIFE IN THIS UNIVERSE
I HAVE A RIGHT TO BE BECAUSE I AM

I HAVE A SUPER POWERFUL IMMUNE SYSTEM
I AM IMMUNE FROM ALL SERIOUS ILLNESS

I am not broken. Thank you very much.

strangerthings, thank you for your reply. I know where you are coming from.

Quote from: strangerthings on September 20, 2021, 05:34:38 PMIts all or nothing baby! You cant serve two masters

St, you come up with some great quotes.

QuoteNo man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

In this instance, if one is serving the God of Science, what is one doing on a Seth forum?

Quote from: Sena on September 20, 2021, 09:06:26 PMIn this instance, if one is serving the God of Science, what is one doing on a Seth forum?

It seems that there is room for scientists (and engineers) to expand their views toward a Sethian context (whether or not they actually studied Seth). For instance, I would place Dean Radin, Edgar Mitchell, Dr. Tien-Sheng Hsu, David Bohm, and Norm Friedman in this category, two of whom have written books based on Sethian ideas.

QuoteThere is nothing wrong with protesting. There is nothing wrong with experiencing this.
Why would you be at a "loss" because of what someone else is doing.  Its their life path.

Well, if they really wanted to do a righteous protest, maybe they would do something more like setting themselves on fire, or jumping off Pike's Peak, say. Go out with a bang instead of, you know, dying in an ICU.

That may sound offensive, but it felt right to the point at least.

Thanks for the comment. Kekule received the Nobel prize for a dream in which he saw a snake biting itself into the tail. He woke up and scribbled the formula of the benzene ring on a piece of paper.

Many scientists were influenced by Eastern philosophies, not understanding the rudimentary character of these explanatory systems.

According to Seth the cosmology he has been transmitting via Jane Roberts and Robert Butts existed only in fragments in various belief systems on Earth, usually distorted by religious dogma.

If scientists would be prepared to accept consciousness as the driving force behind the creation of matter, our technological developments would be certainly more holistic and no longer so compartmentalized and  reductionist.

It looks that future science (in particular medical science) may be entirely different in that there will be structured interactions with parallel realities (Seth). In TES 4, 5, or 6 Seth is describing a contact or a kind of dialogue with a scientist on a parallel Earth (Dr. Ingram). I have not yet managed to read that book.

Structuring the cosmology of Seth in a way that it can be understood and processed by scientists would be a giant step forward. They cannot read the books in the form in which they are written and available now. They do not have the time, and they could not formulate what they have been reading and translate that into the proper scientific terms of their specific community. They would be risking their reputation, their career and their pensions.

Mainstream science is structurally not really conducive to outstanding new ideas or concepts. (Thomas Kuhn: The structure of scientific revolutions')

Quote from: Tob on September 21, 2021, 11:14:24 AMIf scientists would be prepared to accept consciousness as the driving force behind the creation of matter, our technological developments would be certainly more holistic and no longer so compartmentalized and  reductionist.

This could happen, I believe, only with scientists who are not supported by academia, DOD, etc. Independent scholars, that is. Otherwise, Science would be almost sure to turn it into something grotesque. Actually, that could happen soon, given the prevailing views on consciousness in neuro- and cognitive sciences.

Quote

QuoteIf scientists would be prepared to accept consciousness as the driving force behind the creation of matter, our technological developments would be certainly more holistic and no longer so compartmentalized and  reductionist.

This could happen, I believe, only with scientists who are not supported by academia, DOD, etc. Independent scholars, that is. Otherwise, Science would almost be sure to turn it into something grotesque.

Yes. If they had to look for funding they would have to try to 'weaponize' it first.

Quote from: strangerthings on September 20, 2021, 05:14:43 PMwow man lol
That is a lot of OLC

yeah blame it ALL ON US LOL

I will never take the injection

strangerthings, even though we posted back and forth about this, something kept gnawing at me. I finally realized what it was. My original post that resulted in your reaction above was about people who have chosen to die of Covid. Clearly, that is not you, so even if you were to interpret my post as "blaming" anyone, it cannot possibly apply to those who have not chosen to die of Covid.

That being said, among my other main points in this thread is that what people consciously believe does not necessarily match what they unconsciously believe.

And one last thing: If someone chooses not to get vaccinated because they are sure that their immune system can handle Covid, they can still get Covid without symptoms and pass it on to others. A vaccinated person can get it as well, but the viral load is significantly reduced, so there is less chance of others catching it from them. So choosing to not be vaccinated puts others at risk. You can say that from a Sethian viewpoint, those others would be choosing to catch it from you, but if your close friend or relative caught it from you and got sick, would you honestly not feel some degree of responsibility?

Quote from: LarryH on September 21, 2021, 10:40:35 AMDean Radin, Edgar Mitchell, Dr. Tien-Sheng Hsu, David Bohm, and Norm Friedman

Larry, I accept that the above-named are open-minded scientists, but you have missed the point of strangerthing's quote.

@LarryH


Ok


YOU Larry forget about MY BELIEFS :)


If I choose to be a "carrier" then I will AND ...if YOU CHOOSE THE BELIEF and state of mind that YOU can "catch" whatever anything and everything from others then so you shall and I will give such to you FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE.

You sure do give me A LOT of power over you! If I didnt know any better I would swear you are calling me your god??  :P

Do you even read the Seth material? If you do ....do you practice with the psy time and exercises and do your belief work??????


I LIVE IN A SAFE UNIVERSE
MY UNIVERSE IS INTRINSICALLY SAFE
MY LIFE IS CHARMED AND I AM SAFE FROM HARM FOREVER


This means whatever it means to you.


Deaths before vaccines were available may not be able to be lumped as easily into categories of why they "chose" to die.

Assumption! "May" is you projecting your beliefs into a future. You are projecting from a state of fear or....other.

"We know though that these days, the vast majority of those who are dying or getting seriously ill are the unvaccinated. "

Who is WE? Leave me out of that please.
And you have ZERO proof unless you hear from the OLC news that this is true!
You find a devil you only make more.



Among those, the largest group might be those who are eligible but have chosen not to be vaccinated.

AGAIN with your maybe's and might's! You can not prove any of this. Only hearsay my friend! Pure and simple OLC news.

Discounting those whose choice was for religious reasons or who waited for the FDA's full approval, we are down to those whose choice was for reasons of "personal freedom" and an opportunity to vent about that.

OLC belief. And pardon me but it sounds as if you are saying "screw your personal freedom and live up to MY expectations." I could be wrong though.  :o


These tend to be people who are angry with society and are vulnerable to various conspiracy theories and social media falsehoods.


Is this true? Am I the only exception? HARDLY and this is merely your opinion and it does not come from a confident safe state of mind. Much less a gentle loving and lifting state. You are projecting your anger, insecurity, unsafe universe into the future because you think perhaps humanity is flawed? I honestly do not know that is for you to choose to mull over and figure out if you choose to. Could you at all possibly just love us so much but yet we fail your expectations?

Like those who stormed the Capitol in January, they are basically dissatisfied with their lives and looking for some way to lash out and blame someone else for their pathetic lives

Ummmm wth is all of that !

and also to find a savior that they can trust, whether that is horse dewormer or someone talking about Jewish space lasers.

And yet you protest so much that I THE UNVAXD BE YOUR SAVIOUR

Sorry about touching on politics, but unless someone is offended by me bringing up horse dewormer or Jewish space lasers, I can't help you.

The only thing that can help ME is to DO THE WORK. I have seen many people benefit from doing the work and live more stress free lives. Life is always better than the story we are telling about it.

Also, is this true? "unless someone is offended by me bringing up horse dewormer or Jewish space lasers, I can't help you." ????


Anyway, many of them are now filling our ICUs and choosing to pass on, perhaps because they simply cannot make sense of the world anymore when their deeply held beliefs are constantly being challenged by reality.


Perhaps, maybe, might

These are you wonderings and ponderings projected as fact.
You are assuming you have a clue what others are doing and why.
Also, "deeply held beliefs"......(looks at your post)

"My original post that resulted in your reaction above "


Let us get one thing real clear. My reaction was not a "result" of your post. You do not have that kind of power over me unless I give it to you which I did not. My post was a result of hopefully pointing out to someone clearly having issues with how I live my life (as if its your business to begin with) but more importantly, I have never seen you post in this way before. You have been here quite some time and I want to ruffle your feathers. THAT my dear Seth forum friend is more on point from my end.



"That being said, among my other main points in this thread is that what people consciously believe does not necessarily match what they unconsciously believe."

Invisible beliefs can be seen by doing the work!


"And one last thing: If someone chooses not to get vaccinated because they are sure that their immune system can handle Covid, they can still get Covid without symptoms and pass it on to others."

I LIVE IN A SAFE UNIVERSE BUT ANY ONE ELSE THAT IS CLOSE CAN CATCH MY UNSAFE COOTIES
That is not how it works.
You completely negate my safe universe and exuberant health!! lol
I wish for you your very own safe universe!!!!



A vaccinated person can get it as well, but the viral load is significantly reduced, so there is less chance of others catching it from them.

That is merely YOUR interpretation and belief system. You believe in how it all works so much so I suggest you stick with it.

"So choosing to not be vaccinated puts others at risk."

Again do you ...practice the work? Do you read the Seth material? I had no idea I was your god!!!!

"You can say that from a Sethian viewpoint, those others would be choosing to catch it from you, but if your close friend or relative caught it from you and got sick, would you honestly not feel some degree of responsibility?"

I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR CHOICES. I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR YOU EVER AT ALL.
You are responsible for your own joy! I am not the one who can make you happy, safe, healthy, secure, rich, confident...none of that! Thats all YOU buddy!



Sometimes I can come across harsh sounding......but my caps are not yelling just merely emphasis. Having to underline things so much is too much up and down clicking for my taste.

By the way, when you have the time, please do give the god of you its job back to you please lol
And when you can... set the world free from your prison.
You do not have to, by all means please keep me as your saviour. I probably will not hear your prayers though. lol Who knows though... I might! Simply just tell me: What do you want?

---

I am greatness.
Every breath I take is a breath of quality. - TPS5
Every breath you take is a breath of quality. - DEAVF2

If you have CD 7, I highly recommend it.

"Specific inoculations are given under various conditions. They are bound to affect the biological system. The people who take such inoculations within your own culture, now, usually do so because they do not want the disease specified, and they believe that the inoculation will prevent it. It is impossible to tell ahead of time how many of those individuals would come down with the disease otherwise, yet diseases do come and go whether or not inoculations are given. The mechanisms operate in such a fashion that by now overall belief has come to such a point that the same results would almost be effected if an inoculation of no particular value were given instead. The mind is as effective against viruses as anything else—and in such hypothetical cases immune reactions would be set up biologically, through the mind's beliefs."

"You number viruses as people number demons. The cause of epidemics, say, is as I have given it in the early chapters of Mass Reality. It is considered to some extent superstitious to beware of preventative inoculations. And yet the body knows that all-in-all, ideally, it does not make sense to inflict even a minute infection or illness upon the body, to introduce foreign elements that have not naturally been accepted by the body in its own context. Therefore often such preventative inoculations—by inoculations I mean here any method of enforced introduction of disease—these methods often bring about other effects of an unfortunate nature."

"You would not have had difficulty without the inoculation. At the time you did suffer a state of shock initially, but the body could handle that. You need general inoculations now, in the society at large, with children's diseases and so forth, because the belief in the inoculations is so strong."

—TPS4 Deleted Session December 12, 1977

And I recommend you comb through this section:
https://findingseth.com/q/inoculations/

I rest my case.

QuoteIf scientists would be prepared to accept consciousness as the driving force behind the creation of matter, our technological developments would be certainly more holistic and no longer so compartmentalized and  reductionist.

It looks that future science (in particular medical science) may be entirely different in that there will be structured interactions with parallel realities (Seth). In TES 4, 5, or 6 Seth is describing a contact or a kind of dialogue with a scientist on a parallel Earth (Dr. Ingram). I have not yet managed to read that book.

Structuring the cosmology of Seth in a way that it can be understood and processed by scientists would be a giant step forward. They cannot read the books in the form in which they are written and available now. They do not have the time, and they could not formulate what they have been reading and translate that into the proper scientific terms of their specific community. They would be risking their reputation, their career and their pensions.

Mainstream science is structurally not really conducive to outstanding new ideas or concepts. (Thomas Kuhn: The structure of scientific revolutions')

Tob, thanks for your insightful account of mainstream science. I could not, however, find a reference to Dr. Ingram in the Seth search engine, nor in Early Session 5 or 6.
The following Seth quote may be relevant with regard to parallel realities, especially at a cellular level:

"All probable worlds exist now. All probable variations on the most minute aspect in any reality exist now. You weave in and out of probabilities constantly, picking and choosing as you go along. The cells within your body do the same thing. (Slowly:) I told you once that there were pulses of activity in which you blinked off and on — this applying even to atomic and subatomic particles.1 "You" assign as real — present here and now — only that activity that is your signal. "You" are not aware of the others. When people think in terms of one self, they of course identify with one body. You know that the cellular structure of it changes constantly. The body is at any given moment, however, a mass conglomeration of energy formed from that rich bank of probable activity. The body is not stable in the terms usually thought of. On deeper biological levels the cells straddle probabilities, and trigger responses. Consciousness rides upon and within the pulses mentioned earlier, and forms its own organizations of identity. Each probability — probable only in relation to and from the standpoint of another probability — is inviolate, however, in that it is not destroyed. Once formed, the pattern will follow its own nature." (from "The "Unknown" Reality, Volume One (A Seth Book)" by Jane Roberts, Robert F. Butts)

Kindle edition: https://amzn.eu/3jtWRnc

Quote

QuoteThere is nothing wrong with protesting. There is nothing wrong with experiencing this.
Why would you be at a "loss" because of what someone else is doing.  Its their life path.

Well, if they really wanted to do a righteous protest, maybe they would do something more like setting themselves on fire, or jumping off Pike's Peak, say. Go out with a bang instead of, you know, dying in an ICU.

That may sound offensive, but it felt right to the point at least.

I do understand what you mean however, you hypnotize yourself with your speech and mental conversations you have and are currently having. You think they SHOULD do this that or the other. The families of consciousness that Seth talks about, there is one family in particular that group together to make these kinds of movements.
Are you saying they should all jump off a bridge even though that family INCLUDES YOU TOO ?

We are a family of humanity. We are all here to do what we are all here to do. And who are you to tell me what I should or should not do or how to die?!?!?!?!

What if, this IS going out with a bang for them? What if they are here to experience a death by disease so they do not repeat it in the future incarnations. Should they still jump off a bridge?!?!  Set themselves on fire????????

Wow man maybe go watch John Wick maybe that can help with the flow of your anger.  I tried this once and it did help. lol!

No one can live up to your expectations including yourself in its current state lol

I expect zero stress tomorrow. I better get it or everyone can go to hell and screw earth salt the earth if I dont get my way!

How about when you have anything you are protesting about, think about what you said about "maybe they could set themselves on fire." Protesting is protesting.

If the founding "fathers" of my republic country never protested for freedom and decided to set themselves all on fire instead then that would have made it very easy for us to be ruled by tyrants and merely be subjects to the government, and and and and and......

If we did not protest the horrific inoculations, and experimentations on people (Jews, Gentiles, Countless others)  they were giving everyone in the death camps in Germany and other places, the Nuremberg trials never would have happened. We would have just as easily agreed with Germany's beliefs.


If the women never protested with womens sufferage women would not vote in my country!! Should we then have set ourselves on fire?

Which protesting is ok with you and how should we do it exactly so we all know not to protest that particular thing or our way of expressing how we feel because you do not approve!!

lol

cmon folks!

QuoteOtherwise, Science would be almost sure to turn it into something grotesque. Actually, that could happen soon, given the prevailing views on consciousness in neuro- and cognitive sciences.

Kyle, do you mean people like  Daniel Dennett "Consciousness Explained"? According to Dennett, he has explained consciousness and there is nothing more to be said.

Quote from: Sena on September 21, 2021, 11:47:47 PM

QuoteIf scientists would be prepared to accept consciousness as the driving force behind the creation of matter, our technological developments would be certainly more holistic and no longer so compartmentalized and  reductionist.

It looks that future science (in particular medical science) may be entirely different in that there will be structured interactions with parallel realities (Seth). In TES 4, 5, or 6 Seth is describing a contact or a kind of dialogue with a scientist on a parallel Earth (Dr. Ingram). I have not yet managed to read that book.

Structuring the cosmology of Seth in a way that it can be understood and processed by scientists would be a giant step forward. They cannot read the books in the form in which they are written and available now. They do not have the time, and they could not formulate what they have been reading and translate that into the proper scientific terms of their specific community. They would be risking their reputation, their career and their pensions.

Mainstream science is structurally not really conducive to outstanding new ideas or concepts. (Thomas Kuhn: The structure of scientific revolutions')

Tob, thanks for your insightful account of mainstream science. I could not, however, find a reference to Dr. Ingram in the Seth search engine, nor in Early Session 5 or 6.
The following Seth quote may be relevant with regard to parallel realities, especially at a cellular level:

"All probable worlds exist now. All probable variations on the most minute aspect in any reality exist now. You weave in and out of probabilities constantly, picking and choosing as you go along. The cells within your body do the same thing. (Slowly:) I told you once that there were pulses of activity in which you blinked off and on — this applying even to atomic and subatomic particles.1 "You" assign as real — present here and now — only that activity that is your signal. "You" are not aware of the others. When people think in terms of one self, they of course identify with one body. You know that the cellular structure of it changes constantly. The body is at any given moment, however, a mass conglomeration of energy formed from that rich bank of probable activity. The body is not stable in the terms usually thought of. On deeper biological levels the cells straddle probabilities, and trigger responses. Consciousness rides upon and within the pulses mentioned earlier, and forms its own organizations of identity. Each probability — probable only in relation to and from the standpoint of another probability — is inviolate, however, in that it is not destroyed. Once formed, the pattern will follow its own nature." (from "The "Unknown" Reality, Volume One (A Seth Book)" by Jane Roberts, Robert F. Butts)

Kindle edition: https://amzn.eu/3jtWRnc

It looks that the name is Dr. Instream.

If you follow the quotation you mentioned in your post (above) it becomes obvious why science has to understand Seth. The machines and instruments experimenters use are aligned with our specific reality aspect. They blink on and off in synchrony with the specific reality game which is played on the stage. They will - structurally - never be able to find out about the larger picture, as they do not receive the data which they would have to measure to come to the point where the experimenters and the scientists would ask the right questions.

With billions of Euro you get in Cern just what you expect to be getting. You construct 'events' which you then interprete as short-lived particles which do not even 'exist' (hadn't you tried to measure them). This is a dead end. According to Seth, when exploring categorically new approaches to space travel, we will discover the 'inside' of the 'real' reality producing machinery (I think 'F2' in his terminology). Only then the picture will change. Science in the future will be entirely different. We will know about our parallel selves (Seth) and we will use that knowledge quite practically on a day-to-day basis, in particular when it comes to healing bodies by means of vibrations (Seth). We could connect to the healthy ones in parallel realities.

Quote from: Tob on September 22, 2021, 01:29:13 AM

Quote from: Sena on September 21, 2021, 11:47:47 PM

QuoteIf scientists would be prepared to accept consciousness as the driving force behind the creation of matter, our technological developments would be certainly more holistic and no longer so compartmentalized and  reductionist.

It looks that future science (in particular medical science) may be entirely different in that there will be structured interactions with parallel realities (Seth). In TES 4, 5, or 6 Seth is describing a contact or a kind of dialogue with a scientist on a parallel Earth (Dr. Ingram). I have not yet managed to read that book.

Structuring the cosmology of Seth in a way that it can be understood and processed by scientists would be a giant step forward. They cannot read the books in the form in which they are written and available now. They do not have the time, and they could not formulate what they have been reading and translate that into the proper scientific terms of their specific community. They would be risking their reputation, their career and their pensions.

Mainstream science is structurally not really conducive to outstanding new ideas or concepts. (Thomas Kuhn: The structure of scientific revolutions')

Tob, thanks for your insightful account of mainstream science. I could not, however, find a reference to Dr. Ingram in the Seth search engine, nor in Early Session 5 or 6.
The following Seth quote may be relevant with regard to parallel realities, especially at a cellular level:

"All probable worlds exist now. All probable variations on the most minute aspect in any reality exist now. You weave in and out of probabilities constantly, picking and choosing as you go along. The cells within your body do the same thing. (Slowly:) I told you once that there were pulses of activity in which you blinked off and on — this applying even to atomic and subatomic particles.1 "You" assign as real — present here and now — only that activity that is your signal. "You" are not aware of the others. When people think in terms of one self, they of course identify with one body. You know that the cellular structure of it changes constantly. The body is at any given moment, however, a mass conglomeration of energy formed from that rich bank of probable activity. The body is not stable in the terms usually thought of. On deeper biological levels the cells straddle probabilities, and trigger responses. Consciousness rides upon and within the pulses mentioned earlier, and forms its own organizations of identity. Each probability — probable only in relation to and from the standpoint of another probability — is inviolate, however, in that it is not destroyed. Once formed, the pattern will follow its own nature." (from "The "Unknown" Reality, Volume One (A Seth Book)" by Jane Roberts, Robert F. Butts)

Kindle edition: https://amzn.eu/3jtWRnc

It looks that the name is Dr. Instream.

If you follow the quotation you mentioned in your post (above) it becomes obvious why science has to understand Seth. The machines and instruments experimenters use are aligned with our specific reality aspect. They blink on and off in synchrony with the specific reality game which is played on the stage. They will - structurally - never be able to find out about the larger picture, as they do not receive the data which they would have to measure to come to the point where the experimenters and the scientists would ask the right questions.

With billions of Euro you get in Cern just what you expect to be getting. You construct 'events' which you then interprete as short-lived particles which do not even 'exist' (hadn't you tried to measure them). This is a dead end. According to Seth, when exploring categorically new approaches to space travel, we will discover the 'inside' of the 'real' reality producing machinery (I think 'F2' in his terminology). Only then the picture will change. Science in the future will be entirely different. We will know about our parallel selves (Seth) and we will use that knowledge quite practically on a day-to-day basis, in particular when it comes to healing bodies by means of vibrations (Seth). We could connect to the healthy ones in parallel realities.

The bulk of the experiments with Dr. Instream seem to be in TES 6. It looks that they start in TES 4, which I don't have. From what I read it had to do with a parallel reality, but I am not sure. One would have to read the three books. In any case science does have its place in the context of Seth. To corroborate his cosmology.

The experiments with Dr. Instream have been conducted in this reality, aiming at improving the inner senses. The inner senses are then the one's needed to get access to parallel realities. According to Seth (NoPR) mankind has not yet reached the end of its physiological development. In the future we will know about our parallel selves and interact with them.

'By now it should be obvious to you that you perceive only a small portion of reality; indeed, that your idea of reality is formed and limited by your perceptions. As you dig deeper into yourself you will find hints of other realities. Yours is not the only system that exists within what you would call the same space as the physical universe. You simply do not perceive these other systems. It is not space or time that divides one system from another. Habits of perception divide them however.

The same atoms and molecules that are perceived in your system as physical objects are perceived in other systems as entirely different realities. Basically the same energy that composes a system projects into other systems, and it is perceived differently. Space, time, size, density, all of these are the results of your own perception.

They have little to do with the nature of basic reality. Distance has nothing to do with space. Realities that YOU can only perceive in terms of light can, for example, exist as sound, as motion, as color, and can have dimensions with which you are completely unfamiliar. We will end up talking about your quasars, but first we need introductory material.' (Session 248)

Quote from: Tob on September 22, 2021, 03:14:11 AMThe experiments with Dr. Instream have been conducted in this reality, aiming at improving the inner senses. The inner senses are then the one's needed to get access to parallel realities. According to Seth (NoPR) mankind has not yet reached the end of its physiological development. In the future we will know about our parallel selves and interact with them.

'By now it should be obvious to you that you perceive only a small portion of reality; indeed, that your idea of reality is formed and limited by your perceptions. As you dig deeper into yourself you will find hints of other realities. Yours is not the only system that exists within what you would call the same space as the physical universe. You simply do not perceive these other systems. It is not space or time that divides one system from another. Habits of perception divide them however.

The same atoms and molecules that are perceived in your system as physical objects are perceived in other systems as entirely different realities. Basically the same energy that composes a system projects into other systems, and it is perceived differently. Space, time, size, density, all of these are the results of your own perception.

They have little to do with the nature of basic reality. Distance has nothing to do with space. Realities that YOU can only perceive in terms of light can, for example, exist as sound, as motion, as color, and can have dimensions with which you are completely unfamiliar. We will end up talking about your quasars, but first we need introductory material.' (Session 248)

"(With my probable self and Dr. Pietra in another more advanced reality.) *What happened was a very momentary merging on deeper-than-conscious levels."
—TES9 Session 487 June 16, 1969

It maybe that the name I had in mind was Dr. Pietra. I am sure I once read about an active interaction with a doctor in a parallel reality. He is developing drugs. I don't have TES 9.

Quote from: Tob on September 22, 2021, 07:24:44 AM

Quote from: Tob on September 22, 2021, 03:14:11 AMThe experiments with Dr. Instream have been conducted in this reality, aiming at improving the inner senses. The inner senses are then the one's needed to get access to parallel realities. According to Seth (NoPR) mankind has not yet reached the end of its physiological development. In the future we will know about our parallel selves and interact with them.

'By now it should be obvious to you that you perceive only a small portion of reality; indeed, that your idea of reality is formed and limited by your perceptions. As you dig deeper into yourself you will find hints of other realities. Yours is not the only system that exists within what you would call the same space as the physical universe. You simply do not perceive these other systems. It is not space or time that divides one system from another. Habits of perception divide them however.

The same atoms and molecules that are perceived in your system as physical objects are perceived in other systems as entirely different realities. Basically the same energy that composes a system projects into other systems, and it is perceived differently. Space, time, size, density, all of these are the results of your own perception.

They have little to do with the nature of basic reality. Distance has nothing to do with space. Realities that YOU can only perceive in terms of light can, for example, exist as sound, as motion, as color, and can have dimensions with which you are completely unfamiliar. We will end up talking about your quasars, but first we need introductory material.' (Session 248)

"(With my probable self and Dr. Pietra in another more advanced reality.) *What happened was a very momentary merging on deeper-than-conscious levels."
—TES9 Session 487 June 16, 1969

It maybe that the name I had in mind was Dr. Pietra. I am sure I once read about an active interaction with a doctor in a parallel reality. He is developing drugs. I don't have TES 9.

"It's not really a new idea," Rob said. "Scientists have theorized about a probable universe."

"But Seth's talking about an infinity of them, from what you tell me," I said. "And it's one thing to theorize about probable selves, and another to think that one of them might be going to contact you."

"I'm ready," Rob said; and he was. Over the next few weeks he did psychological time exercises suggested by Seth, and tried to be intuitively alert to anything out of the ordinary. In the meantime we had another session, and Rob had quite a few questions ready to ask Seth. According to what Seth told us, this probable self is a Dr. Pietra. He is an older man in his system of reality than Rob is in ours, and while he is engrossed in his painting, this interest is subordinated to his medical work.

"He is studying the use of painting in therapy," Seth said. "Not only working with patients and using art as therapy, but working with the idea that some paintings in themselves have a healing effect." Seth went on to say that "certain paintings can capture and direct the healing abilities of the viewer. ... The painter's intent is embedded in his medium and in his painting."

"Does Dr. Pietra know I exist?" Rob asked.

"He knows of your hypothetical existence," Seth said. "He believes that he has a probable self, and he is endeavoring to visit this probable universe. He has no idea, however, that you might be expecting such a visit, or that you might be planning to meet him. ... He has been working on the drug himself, along with two others.

"He will be able to manipulate in his own system while he is gone. Your state of mind and receptivity will be communicated to him and serve as a beckoning area that he will recognize. The sympathetic aspects of your personalities will serve to open clear channels between you. The passageway, you see, is not physical, of course, and yet molecular structure is to some extent involved." (The Seth Material, Chapter 15)

Quote from: strangerthings on September 21, 2021, 11:26:47 PMYOU Larry forget about MY BELIEFS

strangerthings, my early post in this thread that seems to have triggered you big-time was a SPECULATION about how SOME of those who have died from Covid MAY HAVE BEEN deaths of protest, which was the original topic of the thread. Since you have not died of Covid, you were not the subject of my comments. You chose for them to be about you for some reason. You criticized me for speculating (making fun of my use of the word "may", for instance) and then call such comments attempts to ram unprovable assumptions down your throat. So let me make some things clear: When I speculate about dead people, I am not talking about you. When I speculate about something, I am not trying to ram anything down your throat. You are right, I do not completely reject the widely accepted understanding that currently, most of the deaths are occurring among the unvaccinated. That fact has nothing to do with you and should not be considered a threat or an attack on you. You are on your path, I am on mine. I respect your path, please respect mine.

Quote from: strangerthings on September 22, 2021, 12:00:02 AM

Quote

QuoteThere is nothing wrong with protesting. There is nothing wrong with experiencing this.
Why would you be at a "loss" because of what someone else is doing.  Its their life path.

Well, if they really wanted to do a righteous protest, maybe they would do something more like setting themselves on fire, or jumping off Pike's Peak, say. Go out with a bang instead of, you know, dying in an ICU.

That may sound offensive, but it felt right to the point at least.

...

Which protesting is ok with you and how should we do it exactly so we all know not to protest that particular thing or our way of expressing how we feel because you do not approve!!

Wow, St, that's quite a reaction. I was posting about people who are DYING in our hospitals and what does it mean, are they protesting something? I don't know.

And so I bid you good day and hope you feel better soon.

Quote from: Tob on September 22, 2021, 07:42:05 AMAccording to what Seth told us, this probable self is a Dr. Pietra

Tob, it's great that we have got the correct name. I'll look up the references tomorrow morning. (It's getting late in the evening here)

Quote from: Sena on September 22, 2021, 10:32:13 AM

Quote from: Tob on September 22, 2021, 07:42:05 AMAccording to what Seth told us, this probable self is a Dr. Pietra

Tob, it's great that we have got the correct name. I'll look up the references tomorrow morning. (It's getting late in the evening here)

Anybody got a link to the Inter-Dimensional White Pages?  ;D
Sorry, just a comical impulse.

Quote from: KylePierce on September 22, 2021, 11:00:38 AM

Quote from: Sena on September 22, 2021, 10:32:13 AM

Quote from: Tob on September 22, 2021, 07:42:05 AMAccording to what Seth told us, this probable self is a Dr. Pietra

Tob, it's great that we have got the correct name. I'll look up the references tomorrow morning. (It's getting late in the evening here)

Anybody got a link to the Inter-Dimensional White Pages?  ;D
Sorry, just a comical impulse.

If you do have the capacity to do some research:

Their last common incarnations were in Triev, Denmark (early 17th century). Triev cannot be found. It may be that Denmark covered parts of Southern Sweden at that time. But the ship may still be registered somewhere in old logs. Even if it is on Madagascar.

Session 223: ...(Somehow the conversation turned to the lives Jane and I had led in Denmark. When I remarked jokingly that as yet we didn't even know what names we bore in that l i f e , Seth promptly began to spell them out. Jane and I have always been curious about these names. (My name in Denmark, in the 1600's, was Lams Devonsdorf. Seth was Brons Martzens. My wife in that l i f e was Letti Cluse. Jane was my son in that l i f e , his name being Graton. Seth has dealt with our Denmark lives in a few early sessions without going into much detail, and has occasionally referred to them in later sessions.

In the second session, while still speaking to us through the personality of Frank Watts, Seth told us he had been a merchant who dealt in spices. He now confirmed the data and gave us a little more information. See Volume 1.

(Brotzanin II had been one of the ships with which Seth had been connected in his Denmark l i f e . The II, he told us now, meant that this was the second ship that name. It had been a Danish frigate—a warship before coming into Seth's hands as a merchantman. Seth owned it in 1631-32, and used it in the spice trade.

(Bill Gallagher doubted that warships were used by merchantmen but Seth told us this was common in those days; all ships had to be armed anyhow as a protection against piracy. The Brotzanin II had not been in very good shape when Seth acquired her. The conversation led to some of the voyages the ship made. Seth emphatically reminded us that most of the time he "kept his feet on dry land, " He did talk about a few voyages he made. He stressed that he was a merchant rather than a sailor.

(In talking about his voyages, Seth said that we would have to bear with Rub now, because Ruburt—-Jane—knew very little about geography; this I can vouch , Jane now spoke quite slowly with her head down and her eyes closed, whereas before her eyes had opened often and her manner had been very animated and cheerful.

(Seth told us the Brotzanin II had followed a warm current and that it took 22 days to "our first port, where we added some supplies.... We were then (...) days out before another port. You will have to bear with me here.... 62 days then to our destination. Nutmeg from one shore, cloves from another. "

(Bill and I tried to pin down the route of the Brotzanin II, and seemed to (...) a course that included the Azores as first stop, then around the bottom of Africa, the Cape of Good Hope, up the east coast to Madagascar and 'Zanzibar, the source of cloves, I recall from my own reading; Jane said she did not know (that)
However Seth said the ship did not stop at Zanzibar on all trips.

("Lemons," Seth told us, "we knew about lemons before the English did, grated lemon skins and drank the juice, and made the skins into a kind of pout (?) to put on sores. We dried the skins also and kept them in the hold." Lemons were in those days as a protection against scurvy.'

Quote from: Tob on September 22, 2021, 02:02:49 PMTheir last common incarnations were in Triev, Denmark (early 17th century). Triev cannot be found. It may be that Denmark covered parts of Southern Sweden at that time. But the ship may still be registered somewhere in old logs. Even if it is on Madagascar.

Tob, thanks for the info. I thought from my reading that Dr. Pietra was in a probable world that was not actually part of our known historical timeline. Hence the "interdimensional" part. But you're saying something different. What am I missing?

Quote from: KylePierce on September 22, 2021, 03:13:20 PM

Quote from: Tob on September 22, 2021, 02:02:49 PMTheir last common incarnations were in Triev, Denmark (early 17th century). Triev cannot be found. It may be that Denmark covered parts of Southern Sweden at that time. But the ship may still be registered somewhere in old logs. Even if it is on Madagascar.

Tob, thanks for the info. I thought from my reading that Dr. Pietra was in a probable world that was not actually part of our known historical timeline. Hence the "interdimensional" part. But you're saying something different. What am I missing?

Nothing. Dr. Pietra was in a parallel world. And Seth, Jane and Robert had lives in Triev in the early 16th century. All bits and pieces should be brought together. This requires some research. Triev cannot be found. Thus, even regarding this (i.e: 'our') timeline there is a lot of work to be done to corroborate Seth's teachings, his information and his cosmology. The higher the level of consistency the better and the sooner renowned scientists may be prepared to step in and study his teachings with the objective of aligning it with their scientific findings, or - (rather) vice versa - develop innovative scientific models to test his teachings. This is basically what science is all about. Unfortunately our reality is different.

I am sure sooner or later people will begin to understand his cosmology in its entirety. Seth wrote the books explicitely for readers, not for believers. He did not want to establish a new religion, be treated somehow as a guru or be put on a pedestal. He was very clear on that. He says he has been sent and his 'mission' is to provide information. Thus we should honor his endeavor by taking the necessary steps towards understanding this information. It will be to our own benefit.

'centuries before the beginning of what seems to have begun' (Seth, final sentence NoPR)

Quote from: Tob on September 22, 2021, 07:42:05 AM"Does Dr. Pietra know I exist?" Rob asked.

"He knows of your hypothetical existence," Seth said.

Tob, the information we have about Dr.Pietra is limited, because Rob and Jane had difficulty contacting him. This is what I found:

"Now. On two occasions since our last session (June 9), near contact was made. (With my probable self and Dr. Pietra in another more advanced reality.) What happened was a very momentary merging on deeper-than-conscious levels. Neither of you knew how to handle it. You were afraid of blurring your own identities, and were rather frightened by some of the similarities within them. It was the similarities however that made even that contact possible. Give me a moment here.  (Pause.) It was a time when your inner thoughts veered off at a tangent from their familiar ways. I believe you had an image of the inside portion of a human body, or a thought having to do with inner organs. This happened as you picked up on a deep level the presence of your probable self. (This is possible. As an artist painting human figures, I am often concerned with anatomy, though usually of the head and features. I don't recall any strong inner image of the interior of a body, but at the same time I know I have thought of this recently.) Fuller contact is still possible. Even during the experiment he is not here for example all of the time. His focus is not certain, and the intensity of his presence varies. You could sit quietly. Automatic sketching might facilitate contact.  His controls are not good. He is actually between various probable systems, in which however each of you have an interest. It is as if you were, say, distant cousins. Oddly enough your neighborhood, with a rather high saturation of doctors, is a help here. Perhaps I should mention that in your terms (underlined) he is an older man. He has more time for such experiments now than he did when he was younger. This particular probable system, generally speaking, exists within the same space framework as your own. Now you know of positive and negative matter. There are also other kinds of matter forming other systems of reality, invisible to your eyes, as is negative matter." (from "The Early Sessions: Book 9 of The Seth Material" by Jane Roberts, Robert Butts)

"Your doctor friend is still about, due to an extended rest period (Dr. Pietra); once again and for the last time until autumn conditions are good this time, particularly for an apparition. Give us a moment. (Pause.) Tell yourself that you will, while sleeping, be alert to any changed atmosphere within the room; for there will be a change. Tonight and tomorrow night will be best, with a slight possibility on Friday evening, and that will be the last opportunity for a while. Now tell yourself that your conscious mind can be alert while you sleep and dream, alert enough to recognize a changed atmosphere. It makes no difference you see whether you are awake in your terms or asleep in your terms; if your conscious mind is functioning in either state, you will see him. Now the suggestion to carry your waking consciousness into the sleep state is of particular value in conscious projections, if you will use it. You would succeed if you use it habitually. He has found your location, and he will be here. You may instead quite clearly see him in a strong vision within a dream. If so he will announce himself." (from "The Early Sessions: Book 9 of The Seth Material" by Jane Roberts, Robert Butts)

Kindle edition: https://amzn.eu/1bXLmgD

Quote

Quote"Does Dr. Pietra know I exist?" Rob asked.

"He knows of your hypothetical existence," Seth said.

Tob, the information we have about Dr.Pietra is limited, because Rob and Jane had difficulty contacting him. This is what I found:

"Now. On two occasions since our last session (June 9), near contact was made. (With my probable self and Dr. Pietra in another more advanced reality.) What happened was a very momentary merging on deeper-than-conscious levels. Neither of you knew how to handle it. You were afraid of blurring your own identities, and were rather frightened by some of the similarities within them. It was the similarities however that made even that contact possible. Give me a moment here.  (Pause.) It was a time when your inner thoughts veered off at a tangent from their familiar ways. I believe you had an image of the inside portion of a human body, or a thought having to do with inner organs. This happened as you picked up on a deep level the presence of your probable self. (This is possible. As an artist painting human figures, I am often concerned with anatomy, though usually of the head and features. I don't recall any strong inner image of the interior of a body, but at the same time I know I have thought of this recently.) Fuller contact is still possible. Even during the experiment he is not here for example all of the time. His focus is not certain, and the intensity of his presence varies. You could sit quietly. Automatic sketching might facilitate contact.  His controls are not good. He is actually between various probable systems, in which however each of you have an interest. It is as if you were, say, distant cousins. Oddly enough your neighborhood, with a rather high saturation of doctors, is a help here. Perhaps I should mention that in your terms (underlined) he is an older man. He has more time for such experiments now than he did when he was younger. This particular probable system, generally speaking, exists within the same space framework as your own. Now you know of positive and negative matter. There are also other kinds of matter forming other systems of reality, invisible to your eyes, as is negative matter." (from "The Early Sessions: Book 9 of The Seth Material" by Jane Roberts, Robert Butts)

"Your doctor friend is still about, due to an extended rest period (Dr. Pietra); once again and for the last time until autumn conditions are good this time, particularly for an apparition. Give us a moment. (Pause.) Tell yourself that you will, while sleeping, be alert to any changed atmosphere within the room; for there will be a change. Tonight and tomorrow night will be best, with a slight possibility on Friday evening, and that will be the last opportunity for a while. Now tell yourself that your conscious mind can be alert while you sleep and dream, alert enough to recognize a changed atmosphere. It makes no difference you see whether you are awake in your terms or asleep in your terms; if your conscious mind is functioning in either state, you will see him. Now the suggestion to carry your waking consciousness into the sleep state is of particular value in conscious projections, if you will use it. You would succeed if you use it habitually. He has found your location, and he will be here. You may instead quite clearly see him in a strong vision within a dream. If so he will announce himself." (from "The Early Sessions: Book 9 of The Seth Material" by Jane Roberts, Robert Butts)

Kindle edition: https://amzn.eu/1bXLmgD

Thanks. Thus, it looks that the Instream experiments designed for promoting the inner senses were in fact a step towards facilitating contact with probable selves. And these contacts would most likely take place in the dream-state. If that is the case one can also do the exercises proposed by Seth in UR to get an understanding of the probable selves. According to Seth (I think in NoPR) these forms of interaction play a role in future medical science.

And it looks that the New York Beach event was the closest 'approximation' to a probable reality in physical terms. Hadn't they spontaneously decided to go dancing when seeing this strange couple at the table in the bar they could have both easily ended up as these other selves, full of negativity and frustration (Seth).

Quote from: Tob on September 23, 2021, 01:03:55 AMAnd these contacts would most likely take place in the dream-state. If that is the case one can also do the exercises proposed by Seth in UR to get an understanding of the probable selves. According to Seth (I think in NoPR) these forms of interaction play a role in future medical science.

Tob, I like the idea of keeping things simple.
I say to myself, "I live in a safe universe" (Lynda Madden Dahl)
Or, "The feeling of my wish fulfilled" (Neville Goddard)

Quote from: Sena on September 23, 2021, 03:06:47 AM

Quote from: Tob on September 23, 2021, 01:03:55 AMAnd these contacts would most likely take place in the dream-state. If that is the case one can also do the exercises proposed by Seth in UR to get an understanding of the probable selves. According to Seth (I think in NoPR) these forms of interaction play a role in future medical science.

Tob, I like the idea of keeping things simple.
I say to myself, "I live in a safe universe" (Lynda Madden Dahl)
Or, "The feeling of my wish fulfilled" (Neville Goddard)

Yes, that is another option as well. Of course.

But in the long run, understanding and knowing is always better than believing.

Quote from: Sena on September 21, 2021, 10:42:34 PM

Quote from: LarryH on September 21, 2021, 10:40:35 AMDean Radin, Edgar Mitchell, Dr. Tien-Sheng Hsu, David Bohm, and Norm Friedman

Larry, I accept that the above-named are open-minded scientists, but you have missed the point of strangerthing's quote.

I did not miss the point, I rejected the point. strangerthing's quote was meaningless when comparing science and Seth. The implication was that if you follow Seth, you have to completely reject all of science, and vice versa. I prefer to have no masters. I gravitate toward what is resonant, whether from science, Seth, or any other source of information. It's like saying that if you love apples, you must hate the part of you that loves oranges. The "two masters" idea applied to our consciousness would mean that our logic and our intuition must be at war with one another rather than in a cooperative gestalt. I was simply showing how scientists are not universally against Sethian ideas, that there can be a balance, an expansion that is greater than the sum of the parts. It is as bad for a Seth follower to reject science as it is for a scientist to reject Seth.

Quote from: LarryH on September 23, 2021, 08:13:42 AMI did not miss the point, I rejected the point. strangerthing's quote was meaningless when comparing science and Seth.

strangerthings did not in fact identify the two masters as science and Seth. I suggested that one of the masters might be "the God of science".

Quote from: Sena on September 23, 2021, 10:29:34 AMstrangerthings did not in fact identify the two masters as science and Seth. I suggested that one of the masters might be "the God of science".

Ah, so I guess I was responding to you more than strangerthings

Saw this on FB today, thought I'd share here. Although it's not specific to dying from covid as a means of protest, it is covid related—with a Sethian twist. From a Seth group member in Australia, and I've added the two comments that were the only ones at the point that I read the post:

QuoteI'm not sure if this has made widespread news across the world or not, but on Tuesday Melbourne had a big anti-lockdown/anti mandatory vaccine protest which started with construction workers opposing compulsory vaccinations but grew into a broader 'freedom' rally.
 
The scene became shocking for most of us here - the most violent I've seen in my life time - most of us here have never seen this kind of violent police force used on civilians—officers used pepper balls, foam baton rounds, smoke bombs and stinger grenades which deploy rubber pellets. Tensions built up and aggressive explosions by both sides happened.

The reason I'm mentioning this here is because, incredibly, the next morning Melbourne experienced a 5.9 earthquake.  It was the biggest in Melbourne's recorded history.

We almost NEVER have earthquakes here in Australia. Everyone was stunned by the 'coincidence' of this event (after all, how will they rebuild all the damaged buildings when they've locked out so many construction workers?)

Being a Sethian my mind instantly went to what Seth says about how emotions affect weather conditions and cataclysmic events.

It just seems too much of a coincidence for there not to be a connection?

Just wondering if anyone else felt the same about these two events, if you've heard about them?

PS: Today Melbourne officially becomes the most locked-down city in the world. It seems Australia in general is fast moving towards a totalitarian, policed state and Melbourne is definitely at the forefront of this.

Comment 1:
It's not coincidence.. and of course its connected to emotional state of people in ur end... what makes me annoyed with all this is why I even chose to bloody witness all this correlations... we definitely funked up somewhere and it just seems that there is a long way to go for human race to wake up. And my question is why in a world I had to come "back" into this idiotic reality

Comment 2:
That is a question I ask myself nearly every day! If our intentions can change the weather and cause natural calamities, what the hell are we putting out into the universe?

Since the topic of science and Seth came up here as well, there's a Seth Conference video on this page, Glen Payne, "Latest Scientific Validation of the Seth Material." I've been listening to some of these while working, and this one is on my agenda for today. Coincidentally, Payne is Australian.  ;)

https://vimeo.com/showcase/8814013 Password is "awaken"

Quote from: Deb on September 23, 2021, 12:16:03 PMSince the topic of science and Seth came up here as well, there's a Seth Conference video on this page, Glen Payne, "Latest Scientific Validation of the Seth Material." I've been listening to some of these while working, and this one is on my agenda for today. Coincidentally, Payne is Australian.  ;)

https://vimeo.com/showcase/8814013 Password is "awaken"

Thank you. Below you find the quotation of Seth at 47:40

'You have put yourselves in a position where your consciousness must now become aware of the probable pasts and probable futures, in order to form for yourselves a sane, fulfilling, and creative present. Ego consciousness must now be familiarized with its roots, or it will turn into something else. You are in a position where your private experience of yourself does not correlate with what you are told by your societies, churches, sciences, archaeologies, or other disciplines. Man's "unconscious" knowledge is becoming more and more consciously apparent. This will be done under and with the direction of an enlightened and expanding egotistical awareness (much louder), that can organize the hereto neglected knowledge — or it will be done at the expense of the reasoning intellect (again louder), leading to a rebirth of superstition, chaos, and the unnecessary war between reason and intuitive knowledge.' (Session 687)

Thus, the reasoning intellect and the intuitive knowledge have to expand in a complementary mode. One should not be played off against the other.

QuoteWe almost NEVER have earthquakes here in Australia. Everyone was stunned by the 'coincidence' of this event (after all, how will they rebuild all the damaged buildings when they've locked out so many construction workers?)

Being a Sethian my mind instantly went to what Seth says about how emotions affect weather conditions and cataclysmic events.

It just seems too much of a coincidence for there not to be a connection?

Just wondering if anyone else felt the same about these two events, if you've heard about them?

PS: Today Melbourne officially becomes the most locked-down city in the world. It seems Australia in general is fast moving towards a totalitarian, policed state and Melbourne is definitely at the forefront of this.

Deb, this is a great find. It appears that the fear of Covid 19 is a worse disease than any physical effects of the virus itself. Many people may be dying of fear.

QuoteFear can actually have some extreme physiological effects. It's rare, but it can happen.

Intense emotion can actually trigger a heart attack in susceptible individuals (especially those suffering from other heart conditions). But even people without an underlying heart problem can literally be scared (almost) to death.

https://health.clevelandclinic.org/its-true-we-can-be-scared-to-death/

QuoteThe recent COVID-19 pandemic has triggered a surge in anxiety across the globe. Much of the public's behavioural and emotional response to the virus can be understood through the framework of terror management theory, which proposes that fear of death drives much of human behaviour. In the context of the current pandemic, death anxiety, a recently proposed transdiagnostic construct, appears especially relevant. Fear of death has recently been shown to predict not only anxiety related to COVID-19, but also to play a causal role in various mental health conditions.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7308596/

Quote from: LarryH on September 22, 2021, 09:49:18 AM

Quote from: strangerthings on September 21, 2021, 11:26:47 PMYOU Larry forget about MY BELIEFS

strangerthings, my early post in this thread that seems to have triggered you big-time was a SPECULATION about how SOME of those who have died from Covid MAY HAVE BEEN deaths of protest, which was the original topic of the thread. Since you have not died of Covid, you were not the subject of my comments. You chose for them to be about you for some reason. You criticized me for speculating (making fun of my use of the word "may", for instance) and then call such comments attempts to ram unprovable assumptions down your throat. So let me make some things clear: When I speculate about dead people, I am not talking about you. When I speculate about something, I am not trying to ram anything down your throat. You are right, I do not completely reject the widely accepted understanding that currently, most of the deaths are occurring among the unvaccinated. That fact has nothing to do with you and should not be considered a threat or an attack on you. You are on your path, I am on mine. I respect your path, please respect mine.

Dear @LarryH,

Speculations about others lives ..... is clear in your post. Your words you say to yourself are so hypnotizing by their fix that you really believe what you are saying inside your mental home you constantly return to.
Since I do not speak for the whole world how would you like me to respond lol
I can only freely speak about myself.
You didnt trigger me at all  8)
Bigtime ? really? lol
I replied to you and your posting regardless of what ever topic is the thread my Sethian forum friend.
If you think I was criticizing you or making fun of you instead of pointing out to you how OLC your words were I encourage CD 7 even more!
I never once felt threatened by your words or felt "attacked".

OLC means for example, that when I as a "Sethian" say to you this that or the other, countering your beliefs, you will throw my way every fact fancy and footnote from the mainstream news as your legitimate proof that you are right and I am wrong .
Spiritually this is referred to as "stoning people". OLC Beliefs are stones. OLC Facts are stones. Its a lot of heavy heavy weight to carry and I wish for you to just.... let them all fall into the ground and dissipate easily.

My mentor (who is now elsewhere) used to have us do this exercise where we imagined all these heavy stones and boulders attached to us .... each one representing our cold hard facts about the world, our own self and others etc. Then We would let them all fall heavily to the ground with loud THUDS and some smashed! Then we would pick them all up again one by one attaching them to our bodies .... Most of us had a hard time picking them all back up lolol and we would practice becoming lighter and lighter .....

Such an interesting exercise lol

"What is coming at you is coming from within you"

"If you always do what you have always done, you will always get what you've always had. "

I wish you a beautiful life and an instrinsically safe universe to live in  :)

Quote from: KylePierce on September 22, 2021, 10:05:25 AM

Quote from: strangerthings on September 22, 2021, 12:00:02 AM

Quote

QuoteThere is nothing wrong with protesting. There is nothing wrong with experiencing this.
Why would you be at a "loss" because of what someone else is doing.  Its their life path.

Well, if they really wanted to do a righteous protest, maybe they would do something more like setting themselves on fire, or jumping off Pike's Peak, say. Go out with a bang instead of, you know, dying in an ICU.

That may sound offensive, but it felt right to the point at least.

...

Which protesting is ok with you and how should we do it exactly so we all know not to protest that particular thing or our way of expressing how we feel because you do not approve!!

Wow, St, that's quite a reaction. I was posting about people who are DYING in our hospitals and what does it mean, are they protesting something? I don't know.

And so I bid you good day and hope you feel better soon.

LOL

Did you not read your post ?
Your "joke" about "maybe they could just set themselves on fire?"

You kid yourself thinking that kind of language doesnt effect you.

You think its perhaps sarcasm or a joke not meant to be serious (and I feel you were not serious) however....... this type of sarcasm comes from an inner something. It effects you. Not me. Yet it is sent out into the world and into our universe turning into .....? ? ?

I point it out because I CARE about you.

I really do get what you mean and I have been down this road with my own head and my own sarcasm and dark humor.

Your inner child Im guessing...and I could be wrong.... is effected by your statement. When I use this kind of language I imagine myself sitting down with my inner child and I am talking this way. Sometimes my 10 year old self (or younger or older) is present. Neither of them like this and it effects them and I never like to see them suffer. They have suffered enough.

Your language effects YOU not me.

It effects your molecules and atoms and chromosomes. It effects every part of you. There is a part of us talking this way and we do respect it by giving it a voice as I think it deserves to have a voice so .... for me I thank that part of me and later.... we talk about it and I question this part of me that talks this way so I get to know this part of me and help it become even more supportive of me in a more constructive and beneficial manner.

Its all good! I wish you well !

https://vimeo.com/showcase/8814013 Password is "awaken"

Dr. Hsu has a WONDERFUL presentation here!

He mentions that many people NEED love and care and do not normally feel loved. So.... they get sick!!!! Then they feel loved and cared for!

WOW


Person: I need my husband to love me and show me he loves me.
Mentor: You need your husband to love you and show you he loves you.
Person: Uhhhhhh
Mentor: (attentively at the ready)
Person: Hmmmmmmm (repeating it back to self)
Mentor: Are you ok?
Person: Yes but,,,, I dont like the way that sounds. Something is off.
Mentor: Do you need your husband to love you?
Person: Well it would be nice if I felt loved by him.
Mentor: Great! Then feel loved by him!
Person: Uhhhh wtf?
Mentor: You want to feel loved by him so feel that.
Person: But I do not feel that!

and the conversation gets better and better until the "Person:" realizes :

You are the one you have been waiting for!

teehee

Man that was a great presentation I really enjoyed it.

The science of love of self.

( :P  )

Quote@strangerthings: You think its perhaps sarcasm or a joke not meant to be serious (and I feel you were not serious) however....... this type of sarcasm comes from an inner something. It effects you. Not me. Yet it is sent out into the world and into our universe turning into .....? ? ?

St, thanks for your good wishes, and it was half-joking, but it was a reference to the practice among some, especially Buddhist monks back in the 1970s, of protest by self-immolation. That term is a sort of polite way of saying they set themselves on fire, but many people have no knowledge of the term. I don't interpret my post the way you do. It isn't necessary for my inner child to go through trauma when I make an association like that. I am fine, you are fine, I hope. You have sort of shamed me for what I wrote. I don't want to make the world a madder place. Maybe I just didn't make it cartoonish enough. Enough said.

btw, the "quote selection" button has disappeared from the editor. :(

Payne could have gone further and included the scientific 'virtual reality' theories. According to Seth everybody is constantly creating their individual universe. The bug, the cat Willie, Jane Roberts and Robert Butts. In the universe of the bug, the cat consists of a huge mouth, a few hairs and no body. In the universe of the cat Willie, the bug lived longer and was fatter than in the universe of Jane Roberts. And in the universe created by Robert Butts the bug was of a different colour. (Seth, TES 2). In TES 3 Seth tried to transmit information regarding the constant re-creation of our individualized universes. It looks that Jane Roberts was not yet prepared to process that information at that time. The session had to be terminated.

Years ago Cisco had already developed the software to organize virtual conferences, where e.g. the turbine of an aircraft would be projected in 3d into a conference room so that the conference participants, real as well as virtual, could describe technical problems 'in kind' by pointing at specific parts of the virtual engine 'hanging' in the middle of the room over the conference table. According to Tom Campbell our reality is virtual and we will accept that easily once we are more accustomed to interactive 3d presentations, such as Pop Stars performing at concerts, while they are already dead.

Actually to us it does not really make a difference whether we are informed that we are composed of cells, particles, parts of particles, waves, or basically 'nothing at all'. But the 'nothing at all' approach fits the information provided by Seth (and Bashar) best. Otherwise one would have to find a good explanation how it would be possible to be constantly in another probable reality, i.e.: another universe, while it is so obvious that physically we can hardly move more than a few centimeters per second.

Thus, it would be great if he could integrate the virtual reality theories as well. They are clearly corroborated by the Seth material.

(There is an issue with the 'quote' button. I am sure a replied to another thread)

Quote from: strangerthings on September 24, 2021, 02:39:46 AMOLC means for example, that when I as a "Sethian" say to you this that or the other, countering your beliefs, you will throw my way every fact fancy and footnote from the mainstream news as your legitimate proof that you are right and I am wrong .
Spiritually this is referred to as "stoning people". OLC Beliefs are stones. OLC Facts are stones. Its a lot of heavy heavy weight to carry and I wish for you to just.... let them all fall into the ground and dissipate easily.

Thanks, St, this is an analogy I had not come across previously.

Quote from: Sena on September 23, 2021, 10:30:58 PMDeb, this is a great find. It appears that the fear of Covid 19 is a worse disease than any physical effects of the virus itself. Many people may be dying of fear.

Well, some people have called covid a Pandemic of Fear. For what it's worth, the chart in Louise Hay's book "heal your body" says under lung: "Fear of taking on life. Not feeling worthy of living life fully." Under pneumonia, which a lot of influenza and covid patients end up with: "Desperate. Tired of life. Emotional wounds that are not allowed to heal."

A disproportionate number of people dying from covid are the elderly, many in nursing homes, so thinking about what Seth says about death fits in with Louise's probable causes (as she calls them).

Wow the NCBI paper brought up some interesting things. Terror management therapy! I imagine the first thing a lot of people wonder when they have covid is, "Am I going to die?" I can't forget the nocebo effect either.

Quote from: strangerthings on September 24, 2021, 02:39:46 AMOLC means for example, that when I as a "Sethian" say to you this that or the other, countering your beliefs, you will throw my way every fact fancy and footnote from the mainstream news as your legitimate proof that you are right and I am wrong

As a Sethian, I take elements of consensus reality with a grain of salt. That being said, I do not simply throw it out altogether just because it's info obtained from conventional sources. You can choose not to believe that the unvaccinated have an 11 times greater chance of dying of Covid than the vaccinated. Such a widely held view has nothing to do with you given your beliefs, and you should not feel threatened by it. It really has nothing to do with me either. It was simply mentioned as part of my attempt to zero in on a mindset of some of those currently dying from Covid, speculating on their beliefs and how their deaths might be deaths of protest. your objections to my words are either defensive (which you claim they are not) or they are efforts to point out that I am wrong for believing a widely reported statistic as if that belief somehow harms me or you.

Quote from: LarryH on September 25, 2021, 12:34:19 PMt was simply mentioned as part of my attempt to zero in on a mindset of some of those currently dying from Covid, speculating on their beliefs and how their deaths might be deaths of protest. your objections to my words are either defensive (which you claim they are not) or they are efforts to point out that I am wrong for believing a widely reported statistic as if that belief somehow harms me or you.

Larry, Seth (or Rob) on statistics:

Quote• "Headache remedies are a case in point here. Nowhere do any medically-oriented commercial or public service announcements mention the body's natural defenses, its integrity, vitality, or strength. Nowhere in your television or radio matter is any emphasis put upon the healthy. Medical statistics deal with the diseased. Studies upon the healthy are not carried out."

• "A controversy related to that over mammograms, but one that hasn't been nearly as well publicized, concerns "prophylactic subcutaneous mastectomy" — the process by which some women elect to have their breasts removed before they actually develop cancer in one or both of them. These women have been told that statistically they're "high risk" prospects for cancer. Involved here are recent diagnostic procedures: the study of the "patient's" family history, the study of the "density" and structure of her breast tissues as determined by mammogram patterns, and the detection of possibly premalignant cellular changes. In this preventative operation, the surgeon leaves the nipple and the skin of the breasts, and restores their bulk with implants of plastic or silicone."

• "Even when resorted to, prophylactic mastectomies are not foolproof, for a few women have still developed cancer in the area of the nipple. What Jane and I are very curious about, however, is how many "statistically vulnerable" women submitted to operations they didn't need — for surely a significant number of them wouldn't have developed cancer in the first place. The percentage is unknowable, of course. If it could be shown that most of the "high risk" women would get cancer, there wouldn't be arguments about whether such mastectomies are of general value. As things are, though, because of the controversy women once again end up confused as to who is right and what to do. Large scale studies, including one by the National Cancer Institute, are planned to explore the whole question of prophylactic mastectomies."

—NoME Chapter 2: Session 805, May 16, 1977

On the topic of prophylactic mastectomies, it may be that some women are having unnecessary surgery:

QuoteMany women who develop cancer in one breast overestimate their risk of developing cancer in the other breast, the researchers found.

The study, which surveyed 123 women who had cancer detected in one breast and opted for a bilateral mastectomy, found 98 percent indicated that their desire to reduce their risk for a cancer recurrence informed their decision. Similarly, 94 percent pointed to their desire to improve their chance of survival. Yet the vast majority indicated they understood that women undergoing CPM did not live longer.

https://centerforhealthjournalism.org/2013/10/02/surgeons-worry-women-are-too-quick-remove-their-breasts-any-sign-cancer

More Seth quotes:

Quote"Obviously, the mind can use its reasoning abilities, for example, to come to the conclusion that there is a single god behind the functioning of the world, that there are many gods, that divinity is a fantasy, and that the world itself springs from no reasonable source. New sentence: Like statistics, the reasoning abilities can be used to come to almost any conclusion. This is done, again, by taking into consideration within any given system of reasoning only the evidence that agrees with the system's premises."
—TMA Session Seven: August 28, 1980

Quote"Statistics provide an artificial, predetermined framework in which your reality is then examined. Mathematics is a theoretical organized structure that of itself imposes your ideas of order and predictability. Statistically, the position of an atom can be theorized, but no one knows where any given atom is at any given time." (from "The "Unknown" Reality, Volume One (A Seth Book)" by Jane Roberts, Robert F. Butts)

https://amzn.eu/73LArOZ

Quote"Those who imagine they look upon nature with the most objective of eyes are those whose subjective beliefs blind them most of all, for they cannot see through their own misinterpretations. It has been said that statistics can be made to say two things at once, both contradictory; so the facts of nature can be read in completely different fashions as they are put together with the organizational abilities of the mind operating through the brain's beliefs." (from "The Nature of the Psyche: Its Human Expression (A Seth Book)" by Jane Roberts, Robert F. Butts)

Start reading it for free: https://amzn.eu/jaaoMX1

Sena, I am well aware of the problems with statistics. There's the old saying, "There are three kinds of lies: Lies, damned lies, and statistics." I keep that in mind when I examine statistics. They should be taken with a grain of salt. But they should not be completely ignored either. One should consider how likely a statistic could be manipulated, how hard it would be to hide the truth behind a false statistic. For instance, if it is wrong, then why are we not hearing that it is wrong from all the hospitals? I could not find the basis for the claim that it is 11 times more likely for an unvaccinated person to die of COVID than the vaccinated, but what I did find suggests that the claim may be conservative, possibly to avoid being accused of exaggeration. All the hospitals in the country would have to be involved in the conspiracy to manipulate the overall statistics. The following links are a sample of past statistical evaluations of this issue. If you do not want to be exposed to the info, don't click the links.
Nearly all COVID deaths in US are now among unvaccinated (https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-health-941fcf43d9731c76c16e7354f5d5e187)
Or this link shows tables comparing states, with a wide variation: Breakthrough COVID hospitalizations and deaths by state (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/08/10/us/covid-breakthrough-infections-vaccines.html)

Edit: I want to stress that these data have nothing to do with anybody here, as you are not dead. Further, if you are unvaccinated, your reasons may be based more on reading Seth than another source of information, and that cannot be said about most of those who have died of COVID. My purpose in mentioning these data was to aid in narrowing down to the common beliefs of those who have died of COVID since vaccinations have become widely available. Those common beliefs (not Seth sources) clearly include a mistrust in the vaccinations. The sources of that mistrust tend to promote an extremist political bias, as can easily be seen by anybody paying attention.  Extremists (right or left) have a tendency to believe in goofy conspiracy theories and anything that aligns with their greatest fears (the government, the "deep state", the Illuminati, Bill Gates, the New World Order, election fraud, Jewish space lasers, etc.) It's easy enough to then summarize this mindset into one of fear, paranoia and hopelessness.

I am totally done with this topic. I don't know if anyone would object if I, the guy who started this topic, just locked it. I believe it could only get worse from here. I could almost say, it's unfortunate that I started it.

I'm not asking for permission to lock it, I'm just letting you know this is my intention. I'm not really sure what the rules of etiquette are, but at least I can announce it.

Actually, if I waited to lock it, this might just lead to more friction. So just consider it locked.

I'm unlocking this topic, even if no one ever adds to it again. Deb says this is the first time anyone has locked a topic on this forum. I think that is amazing, and I don't want to be the one guy with the locked topic!  :P :)

Don't want to be that guy, lol.

For the record, you all have complete freedom to do as you choose with your own posts. I just mentioned no one had locked a topic before because it had just dawned on me. Maybe no one ever noticed that option before.  ;D