We've talked covid into the ground here for the past two years, studying and discussing Seth's explanations for the reasons behind such mass events. And just as covid has loosened it's grip on the world, a new mass event has reared its ugly head.
With the internet and instant information transmission, and with WWII still in peoples' minds, the Russian invasion of Ukraine has become another mass event. Now a world event with his recent threat of nukes and aggression towards other countries.
Anyone have ideas as to why, on a spiritual level, this is happening? I feel like I could just copy the entire covid post collection and replace the word "covid" with "Russia-Ukraine war." We know what Seth said about the causes of illnesses, and if an illness is "cured" without resolving the underlying problem then something else will take its place. Is this the answer?
One difference I feel between the covid mass event and this one is that covid seemed to tear the world apart, where this war appears to be uniting the world in their determination to support Ukraine and bring about a positive resolution. I find the unity very heartening.
BTW there is a member here and a friend of mine for several years,
@Marianna, who lives in the US now and has family and friends in Ukraine. Here is a blog post she wrote today about what's going on.
https://www.birdsongspace.life/2022/02/ukraine-what-is-going-on-my-family.html
Also, Lynn McTaggert (author of
The Field and
The Intention Experiment) is creating an intention experiment for Ukraine. But no indication of date or time, so it must be freestyle.
'Our intention is that peace be immediately, completely and permanently restored in Ukraine with no further loss of life and that the country maintain its sovereignty as an independent, democratic nation.'
https://www.facebook.com/LynneMcTaggart2011
I guess China, Iran, North Koreas, and others aren't part of the World ... (?)
Even without a nuclear war, the current events will likely have major consequences for the ordinary people in the Western countries too.
(https://c.tenor.com/-59Q8580yxEAAAAC/john-lennon-you-dont-know.gif)
At thoughts and emotions level, whatever materialized in the covid, materialized in this too. And we aren't out of the woods with the covid and vaccinations either.
The immediate cause is incompetence, arrogance, sociopathy at the higher levels, but there are mass psychological realities that materialized in what we experience.
On the other hand, let's not forget that we all chose to experience this physical (time, space, probability point of) reality for our individual reasons.
Seth says in this century we will arrive at a new level of consciousness, war will be left behind and a far more caring society will emerge. How this will occur Seth is rather vague on. Ra says the planet is moving into a different vibrational space, in space. What he calls 4th density, what Dolores Canon calls New Earth. There is a build up of negative energy in f1 and f2 from all the hating that's been going on down here so that has to be reconciled and that may or may not make for a bumpy ride. Ra says bumpy very likely, Quo says not bumpy and we will be able to live out our natural term of life. Not sure what to think really as there are very positive and negative elements emerging throughout society, that's my feeling at least.
Quote from: Deb on February 28, 2022, 06:49:59 PMBTW there is a member here and a friend of mine for several years, @Marianna, who lives in the US now and has family and friends in Ukraine. Here is a blog post she wrote today about what's going on.
https://www.birdsongspace.life/2022/02/ukraine-what-is-going-on-my-family.html
Deb, thanks for the link.
@Marianna , my thoughts are with you.
My intention is that Putin's regime be toppled within Russia.
Quote from: Sena on March 01, 2022, 06:02:58 PMMy intention is that Putin's regime be toppled within Russia.
The BEST resolution of this situation. I personally know a few people in Russia, and they are totally in favor of Ukraine. Putin needs to go away.
https://speakingofseth.com/index.php/topic,2617.msg21683.html#msg21683
I believe that the above quote is relevant to this subject.
What's happening with the covid and Ukraine is part of a repeating sequence of fear, anger, hatred that accelerated over the last 20 plus years. When hatred is reached, a new situation that causes fear manifests. Surely media and politicians stoke it for their benefit, but they aren't the mainspring.
No matter how justified they may seem, hatred / anger / fear are detrimental to the one experiencing them, and have no positive effect on the situation, nor negative effect on the "external" object of the emotion (if the object doesn't accept it at some level).
Think: boomerang!
(https://i.gifer.com/origin/b9/b9980db8600702356039f1ad0469ab69_w200.gif)
@inavalan Boomerang!
That made me laugh!!
"You meet your beliefs head on."
----------------------------------------
I dont want anyone hurt.
Not Putin, not a regime, not anyone.
I would LOVE for these people to have a change of heart.
Seth said Hitler never knew love.
Bullies in my experience have often had traumatic lives.
I cant help but wonder if these folks have been experiencing in their reincarnations of simultaneous lives ... a lack. Perhaps this is their way of conquering their fears of lack of love or their own true power within.
Have these people ever been loved? Truly loved? And felt it?
@Deb , someone had to start this thread
He sure does seem miserable in public.
Quote from: Bora137 on March 01, 2022, 05:32:41 PMSeth says in this century we will arrive at a new level of consciousness, war will be left behind and a far more caring society will emerge. How this will occur Seth is rather vague on. Ra says the planet is moving into a different vibrational space, in space. What he calls 4th density, what Dolores Canon calls New Earth. There is a build up of negative energy in f1 and f2 from all the hating that's been going on down here so that has to be reconciled and that may or may not make for a bumpy ride.
Bora, I heard a lot about New Earth, New Energy, a kind of New Era beginning for us. Not from Seth, but doesn't matter. Also - that 'the Dark' is going to struggle and want to stay (with wars, greed and old ways of doing things), but 'the Light" has already won and there'll be no turning back. I know, a bit "woo woo", but it's bottomline that's important.
Thank you everyone for your support!
And you know what song so often came to mind right before the war started, and I listened to it with great pleasure? A favorite! John Lennon's 'IMAGINE'. Written so much "before it's time' or to show what life should be like. And this is the society we are building now. Not in one day, surely, but one step at a time.
And with all mass events, there is always personal choice of each individual - how he/she will experience covid/war/lack, etc.
Since this is a safe space and you understand what I am talking about, those of my family who were very afraid of covid, have a more fearful experience now. The same with lack/abundance.
Quote from: Marianna on March 02, 2022, 08:08:43 PMThank you everyone for your support!
And you know what song so often came to mind right before the war started, and I listened to it with great pleasure? A favorite! John Lennon's 'IMAGINE'. Written so much "before it's time' or to show what life should be like. And this is the society we are building now. Not in one day, surely, but one step at a time.
And with all mass events, there is always personal choice of each individual - how he/she will experience covid/war/lack, etc.
Since this is a safe space and you understand what I am talking about, those of my family who were very afraid of covid, have a more fearful experience now. The same with lack/abundance.
Sorry for the pain and suffering experienced by you and yours.
That (
my underlining) is a remarkable observation, and it is my experience too. Emotions always bring in one's reality situations that yield the same kind of emotions, avalanching.
Quote from: strangerthings on March 02, 2022, 03:59:11 PM@inavalan
Boomerang!
That made me laugh!!
"You meet your beliefs head on."
----------------------------------------
I dont want anyone hurt.
Not Putin, not a regime, not anyone.
I would LOVE for these people to have a change of heart.
Seth said Hitler never knew love.
Bullies in my experience have often had traumatic lives.
I cant help but wonder if these folks have been experiencing in their reincarnations of simultaneous lives ... a lack. Perhaps this is their way of conquering their fears of lack of love or their own true power within.
Have these people ever been loved? Truly loved? And felt it?
@Deb , someone had to start this thread lol
As you liked the boomerang picture (and inference) ...
(https://j.gifs.com/83Y1pm.gif)
- This could be interpreted as "one's mischievousness boomerangs" (reality creation).
- It could also be interpreted as "a kick-in-the-butt can be transmuted into a step forward" (psychological alchemy).
strangerthings wrote:
"Seth said Hitler never knew love."
I don't recall Seth saying that.
I understand young Hitler was doted on by his mom, beaten by his dad.
Quote from: inavalan on March 02, 2022, 08:40:29 PMThat (my underlining) is a remarkable observation, and it is my experience too. Emotions always bring in one's reality situations that yield the same kind of emotions, avalanching.
Thank you Inavalan.
And observation about reality creation is surely not something I would say to my family. It'll hardly be helpful.
I can offer only - distraction, breathing techniques, mild New Age visuals, encouragement - different thing for every family member.
But I can't take "life creation" philosophy out of myself. Most fascinating practical science.
Deb wrote:
"Putin needs to go away."
And Putin would say NATO needs to go away. There is no more Warsaw Pact.
When Germany reunified, Russia was promised that NATO would not expand further east. Clinton first broke that promise. And by now NATO is right up to Russia's doorstep.
Bumpersticker:
Russia out of Ukraine. NATO out of existence.
Deb wrote:
"I personally know a few people in Russia, and they are totally in favor of Ukraine."
Peace activist David Swanson on his website wrote:
"...we are seeing war protests in Russia that put the teeny tiny crowds in the United States to shame."
"...yet I tell you that your own preoccupation with arms, as a country, is received by others, and your own thoughts are materialized and you create wars in your minds that then must be faced with your flesh and your blood...."
--Seth, ESP class, Nov 1972
US arms merchants love expanding NATO because then there are new nations to sell arms to.
NATO is in part an arms bazaar.
Quote from: Marianna on March 03, 2022, 11:43:08 AMQuote from: inavalan on March 02, 2022, 08:40:29 PMThat (my underlining) is a remarkable observation, and it is my experience too. Emotions always bring in one's reality situations that yield the same kind of emotions, avalanching.
Thank you Inavalan.
And observation about reality creation is surely not something I would say to my family. It'll hardly be helpful.
I can offer only - distraction, breathing techniques, mild New Age visuals, encouragement - different thing for every family member.
But I can't take "life creation" philosophy out of myself. Most fascinating practical science.
Regarding
... This is something I wondered about, both at individual level, and at mass level.
It seems that many people did and do wonder about that too, including experts in psychology, as well as people intending to use it for mass manipulation, be it advertising, politics, religion, ....
It is is
relatively easy to install hypnosis, but it is quite difficult to remove it. People get naturally attracted by, and adhere to a common altered version of reality, without being aware of that, and it is practically impossible for another to pull them out.
I read some very interesting papers on the subject, written by psychologists who really turned the phenomenon on all its facets (it actually made me vicariously relive the great feeling of interacting with smart people ...). I read a lot about how and why this happens, but so far I haven't read any theory about how this can be addressed.
The general recommendation is: don't accept it, state your opposing position in a non-aggressive manner, and wait it out. The bigger the number of adepts, the longer the hypnotic trance will last, until it will eventually self-destruct. But, who has the patience and the "heart" for that.
Excepting those who want to profit from mass hypnotizing, normal people see it as bad thing both at individual and at mass level.
Interestingly, the susceptibility to be affected by this kind of hypnosis is a bell curve skewed toward the higher intelligence people, which isn't a surprise, as it is known in the hypnosis field that more intelligent subjects are easier to hypnotize.
Just a sane side-note: if you see others not knowing they are hypnotized, how do you know you aren't hypnotized too?
To me, the only way out of this at personal level is to work with your inner guidance, and with your subconscious.
As sad it may sound, you can't change another person. You can't dehypnotize anybody. The good news is that you can dehypnotize yourself.
The other important, personal aspect is how do you deal with those that you consider hypnotized. It isn't only about what you do, but usually they'll try to bring you on their side, and often enough not in a non-aggressive way.
I don't really have a working solution to this, and the undeniable evidence for this is the poor relation I have with some people to whom I was formerly closer.
From all I read, probably Vadim Zeland's writings, about how to deal with pendulums in various situations, give some good applicable suggestions. I mostly practice "ignoring", although it is against my nature.
I recommend Zeland's book "Reality Transurfing", as the many commentaries one can find by searching are personal distortions of the author's message.
- Chapter II. PENDULUMS
Destructive pendulums
The Battle of the Pendulums
Puppet Strings
You get what you do not want
Defeating the Pendulum
Stopping a Pendulum
Simple Solutions to Complex Problems
The Suspended State
Quote from: Mark M on March 03, 2022, 11:46:52 AMRussia out of Ukraine. NATO out of existence.
Mark, if there were no NATO, Putin would take over the whole of Europe.
"You will stop the pendulum's sway if you choose to see the situation as a parody. You could also ignore the situation, refusing to show any sign of interest or emotion." --- Vadim Zeland, "Reality Transurfing"
This is insane.
https://mobile.twitter.com/incontextmedia/status/1499588866617094145
Sena wrote:
"Mark, if there were no NATO, Putin would take over the whole of Europe."
Expanding NATO provoked the crisis.
See:
https://www.counterpunch.org/2022/03/03/235816/
Again, Russia was promised when Germany reunified that NATO would not expand further east. Clinton first broke that promise.
NATO is a military alliance.
Per Seth, violence is never justified.
Were Putin to try to invade nations in Europe, it must be nonviolently resisted.
Like this:
1940–1943
Denmark
Danish resistance movement During World War II, after the invasion of the Wehrmacht, the Danish government adopted a policy of official co-operation (and unofficial obstruction) which they called "negotiation under protest." Embraced by many Danes, the unofficial resistance included slow production, emphatic celebration of Danish culture and history, and bureaucratic quagmires.
See also Norway at:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonviolent_resistance
Quote from: inavalan on March 04, 2022, 12:54:32 AMI recommend Zeland's book "Reality Transurfing", as the many commentaries one can find by searching are personal distortions of the author's message.
Zeland's books are great! They started me on this journey - I've been using so many ideas and techniques he offers. (I am sure the book is channeled). About pendulums - is a great one. That is why in this situation (war), like in any other - the best way for me - do not engage emotionally. And do not engage altogether. Only help with words and actions.
Quote from: Mark M on March 04, 2022, 11:23:14 AMviolence is never justified
I agree absolutely. So politicians are faced with a difficult new situation - how to resolve this. They cannot just expect good, send light and so on.
Quote from: Marianna on March 04, 2022, 06:22:56 PMQuote from: Mark M on March 04, 2022, 11:23:14 AMviolence is never justified
I agree absolutely. So politicians are faced with a difficult new situation - how to resolve this. They cannot just expect good, send light and so on.
In our physical reality, it's difficult to witness violence, threats and apparent lack of regard for life... and respond with peaceful resistance. Especially if the aggressor will most likely interpret it as weakness or concession.
Quote from: Deb on March 04, 2022, 07:25:58 PMIn our physical reality, it's difficult to witness violence, threats and apparent lack of regard for life... and respond with peaceful resistance. Especially if the aggressor will most likely interpret it as weakness or concession.
Yes, peaceful resistance is by most considered weakness - at the moment. But there is so much more we don't know yet about how the Universe works. I think it was Seth who talked about spreading the light in a dark room. How you go about it? You spread the light, not collect and remove the darkness.
Quote from: Deb on March 04, 2022, 07:25:58 PMQuote from: Marianna on March 04, 2022, 06:22:56 PMQuote from: Mark M on March 04, 2022, 11:23:14 AMviolence is never justified
I agree absolutely. So politicians are faced with a difficult new situation - how to resolve this. They cannot just expect good, send light and so on.
In our physical reality, it's difficult to witness violence, threats and apparent lack of regard for life... and respond with peaceful resistance. Especially if the aggressor will most likely interpret it as weakness or concession.
I know ... It's difficult to trust Seth on "you create your own reality", and almost impossible to internalize such a belief. If we already did it, and if we learned to apply it, we wouldn't be here anymore (we would've graduated).
For example, as long as we perceive reality in the terms you described and have the associated feelings, we still don't trust that "each of us creates their own reality", and still don't understand the meaning of physical-life. Peaceful resistance is only as effective as our peaceful thoughts, emotions, and expectations.
At first read, your post reminded me this quote:
- "[Men] saw that there must be an exchange of physical energy for the world to continue. They watched the drama of the "hunter" and the "prey," seeing that each animal contributed so that the physical form of the earth could continue—but the rabbit eaten by the wolf survived in a dream body that men knew was its true form.
When man "awakened" in his physical body, however, and specialized in the use of its senses, he no longer perceived the released dream body of the slain animal running away, still cavorting on the hillside.
He retained memory of his earlier knowledge, and for a considerable period he could now and then recapture that knowledge.
He became more and more aware of his physical senses, however: Some things were definitely pleasant and some were not. Some stimuli were to be sought out, and others avoided, and so over a period of time he translated the pleasant and the unpleasant into rough versions of good and evil."
—DEaVF1 Chapter 5: Session 899, February 6, 1980
Then I searched for "violence", and I browsed many other relevant quotes.
- https://nowdictation.com/q/violence/
This is another quite good quote (aren't they so many!):
- "[... 19 paragraphs ...]
Such medical technology is highly specific, however. You cannot be inoculated with the desire to live, or with the zest, delight, or contentment of the healthy animal. If you have decided to die, protected from one disease in such a manner, you will promptly come down with another, or have an accident. The immunization, while specifically effective, may only reinforce prior beliefs about the body's ineffectiveness. It may appear that left alone the body would surely develop whatever disease might be "fashionable" at the time, so that the specific victory might result in the ultimate defeat as far as your beliefs are concerned.
[... 5 paragraphs ...]
New paragraph: Despite all "realistic" pragmatic tales to the contrary, the natural state of life itself is one of joy, acquiescence with itself — a state in which action is effective, and the power to act is a natural right. You would see this quite clearly with plants, animals, and all other life if you were not so blinded by beliefs to the contrary. You would feel it in the activity of your bodies, in which the vital individual affirmation of your cells brings about the mass, immensely complicated achievement of your physical being. That activity naturally promotes health and vitality.
[... 7 paragraphs ...]
You live in a physical community, but you live first of all in a community of thoughts and feelings. These trigger your physical actions. They directly affect the behavior of your body. The experience of the animals is different, yet in their own ways animals have both individual intent and purpose. Their feelings are certainly as pertinent as yours. They dream, and in their way they reason.
They do not "worry." They do not anticipate disaster when no signs of it are apparent in their immediate environment. On their own they do not need preventative medicine. Pet animals are inoculated against diseases, however. In your society this almost becomes a necessity. In a "purely natural" setting you would not have as many living puppies or kittens. There are stages of physical existence, and in those terms nature knows what it is doing. When a species overproduces, the incidences of, say, epidemics grow. This applies to human populations as well as to the animals.
The quality of life is important above all. Newborn animals either die quickly and naturally, painlessly, before their consciousnesses are fully focused here, or are killed by their mothers — not because they are weak or unfit to survive, but because the [physical] conditions are not those that will produce the quality of life that makes survival "worthwhile."
[... 1 paragraph ...]
There are also "trial runs" in human and animal species alike, in which peeks are taken, or glimpses, of physical life, and that is all. Epidemics sweeping through animal populations are also biological and psychic statements, then, in which each individual knows that only its own greatest fulfillment can satisfy the quality of life on an individual basis, and thus contribute to the mass survival of the species.
(Pause at 11:55.) Suffering is not necessarily good for the soul at all, and left alone natural creatures do not seek it. There is a natural compassion, a biological knowledge, so that the mother of an animal knows whether or not existing conditions will support the new offspring. Animals instinctively realize their relationship with the great forces of life. They will instinctively starve an offspring while its consciousness is still unfocused, rather than send it loose under adverse conditions.
[... 2 paragraphs ...]
Animals as well as men can indeed make social statements, that appear in a biological context. Animals stricken by kitten and puppy diseases, for example, choose to die, pointing out the fact that the quality of their lives individually and en masse is vastly lacking. Their relationships with their own species is no longer in balance. They cannot use their full abilities or powers, nor are many of them given compensating elements in terms of a beneficial psychic relationship with man — but instead are shunted aside, unwanted and unloved. An unloved animal does not want to live.
Love involves self-respect, the trust in individual biological zest and integrity. To that extent, in their way animal epidemics have the same causes as human ones.
An animal can indeed commit suicide. So can a race or a species. The dignity of a spirited life demands that a certain quality of experience be maintained.
[... 14 paragraphs ...]"
—NoME Part One: Chapter 1: Session 802, April 25, 1977
The success rate of nonviolent campaigns is higher than that for violent campaigns.
https://davidswanson.org/check-out-the-check-list-to-end-tyranny/
NOTE: Nonviolent resistance is not guaranteed to be deaths-free, but obviously neither is violent resistance.
We can support groups like Nonviolent Peace Force that have greater success unarmed than do armed UN troops called "peacekeepers."
["...your own preoccupation with arms, as a country..." --Seth, ESP class, Nov 1972] 3% of just U.S. military spending could end starvation on Earth.
https://davidswanson.org/40-things-we-can-do-and-know-for-people-in-ukraine-and-the-world/
Quote from: Mark M on March 05, 2022, 12:09:07 AMWe can support groups like Nonviolent Peace Force that have greater success unarmed than do armed UN troops called "peacekeepers."
["...your own preoccupation with arms, as a country..." --Seth, ESP class, Nov 1972] 3% of just U.S. military spending could end starvation on Earth.
https://davidswanson.org/40-things-we-can-do-and-know-for-people-in-ukraine-and-the-world/
I definitely am for
less military spending, less government waste, less corruption, more accountability.
On the other hand, I am sure that things aren't as simple as 3% off ... These extrapolations are never accurate, and there are all kind of other factors, including local government corruption, overcharging by the food and service providers, etc..
All this is quite complex, and any change can have unexpected consequences. That's why socialist countries planned economies and societies always go bankrupt.
If we really subscribe to the truths inferred from the Seth material, we have to look from a different perspective.
One of the fundamental precepts at work here is that we have to
make the changes at non-physical, thought level, and that will materialize into physical. The way I understand this,
what I perceive is the result of my thoughts, emotions, beliefs, expectations (conscious, and unconscious).
Most people with good intentions always come up with schemes in which if somebody else did something, the problems would be solved. That's destined to never happen. It also makes them feel that they are good, others bad, anger, compassion, fear, which from Seth's perspective won't materialize in a better situation neither at mass, nor at individual level.
Surely,
everybody should do whatever they think is right from their understanding of reality, and of why we are here.
With this reply I just wanted to emphasize that most of us claim to subscribe to Seth's teachings, but don't correlate those teachings with our thoughts and actions in everyday life neither short, nor long term.
Everyone creates their own reality, and experiences it good and bad people, rich and poor, healthy and sick, everyone.
We all have distorted interpretations of the Seth material: conveyed by Seth, channeled by Jane, written down by Rob and others, edited for publication, filtered through our individual beliefs and expectations. Every step affects the perception of the truths of the wider-reality, and everything else.
This seems a related quote:
- "You should give your own sessions.
([Gene]: "I do. May we pursue that point a bit? We would like to create a sort of school—a very simple kind of school—to help anyone who seeks for it, without presuming that we have any answers, but going on the assumption that the way which has been proclaimed by many men is a good way—namely the simple way of love. I presume that you know about the idea that we have for creating such circuits. Will they work? If not, what are their major shortcomings? What would you recommend?")
You are talking about your utopia?
([Gene]: "I would prefer not to call it a utopia.")
There is much involved. Your proposals may be achieved without your realizing that they have been achieved.
([Gene]: "That is very astute.")
You will judge what you see and you will not perhaps see enough. If you perceive results using the inner senses, you will perhaps gain better knowledge of progress."
—TES7 Session 303 Elmira, New York November 26, 1966
inavalan writes: "...we have to make the changes at non-physical, thought level..."
We can start by stopping being preoccupied with arms as a country.
inavalan writes: "On the other hand, I am sure that things aren't as simple as 3% off ... These extrapolations are never accurate, and there are all kind of other factors, including local government corruption, overcharging by the food and service providers, etc."
Rather like this:
Per The Project on Government Oversight:
The overpriced plastic toilet seat covers that cost $640 in the 1980s now cost $10,000. While TransDigm became appropriately infamous for charging profit margins as high as 4,000%, other contractors regularly engage in similar practices to take advantage of taxpayers: Reports from the Department of Defense inspector general show the department paid excessive amounts for spare parts from Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Raytheon, and other top defense contractors. Overcharges to the government have included paying $2,286 for a landing gear that should have cost $10; $71 for a pin that should have cost less than a nickel; and $8,124 for a bevel gear that should have cost $445...."
The Department of "Defense" is not audited. By federal law it is supposed to be.
Quote from: Mark M on March 05, 2022, 11:35:18 AMinavalan writes: "...we have to make the changes at non-physical, thought level..."
We can start by stopping being preoccupied with arms as a country.
:)
When I wrote we have to, I was thinking in terms of
each one of us, no matter what
others do. Then each one will go their own reality. I can't change others' reality, and
they can't change mine.
This is my understanding of reality, and I believe this is what Seth says.
Quote from: Mark M on March 05, 2022, 12:01:27 PMinavalan writes: "On the other hand, I am sure that things aren't as simple as 3% off ... These extrapolations are never accurate, and there are all kind of other factors, including local government corruption, overcharging by the food and service providers, etc."
Rather like this:
Per The Project on Government Oversight:
The overpriced plastic toilet seat covers that cost $640 in the 1980s now cost $10,000. While TransDigm became appropriately infamous for charging profit margins as high as 4,000%, other contractors regularly engage in similar practices to take advantage of taxpayers: Reports from the Department of Defense inspector general show the department paid excessive amounts for spare parts from Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Raytheon, and other top defense contractors. Overcharges to the government have included paying $2,286 for a landing gear that should have cost $10; $71 for a pin that should have cost less than a nickel; and $8,124 for a bevel gear that should have cost $445...."
The Department of "Defense" is not audited. By federal law it is supposed to be.
I agree: the government (through its people) is the first one that doesn't obey its laws, and the Constitution.
My point is that while I want things to change,
the only way for me to experience that new physical reality, is to firstly and successfully change my inner-reality (thoughts, emotions, beliefs, expectations).
Otherwise, even if I succeed in changing an external problem, my internal reality will manifest into another problem for me to experience.
Quote from: inavalan on March 05, 2022, 02:16:34 AMWith this reply I just wanted to emphasize that most of us claim to subscribe to Seth's teachings, but don't correlate those teachings with our thoughts and actions in everyday life neither short, nor long term.
and still, invalan, we are doing our best in this Earth school - learning, practicing, improving with practice.
Quote from: Marianna on March 05, 2022, 03:30:57 PMQuote from: inavalan on March 05, 2022, 02:16:34 AMWith this reply I just wanted to emphasize that most of us claim to subscribe to Seth's teachings, but don't correlate those teachings with our thoughts and actions in everyday life neither short, nor long term.
and still, invalan, we are doing our best in this Earth school - learning, practicing, improving with practice.
I
know that ... but the result for many (most?) is a lot of pain and suffering. I don't see any improvement. People must be doing something wrong.
Seth said that pain and suffering aren't necessary. He also said aggression is good. He said love is synonymous with creativity, and not just what we believe to be. He said good and evil are just man's constructs based on pleasure.
He said many things, and each one of us interprets them in our own ways. Also, most of us don't apply Seth in our lives at all, or quite distorted, the likes of religions.
Surely, as my signature says: 'Although I don't always write it explicitly, it should be inferred that everything I post is "my belief", "my opinion" on that subject, at that moment.'
I actually don't expect to convince others, and can't be convinced by others, as these discussions can't be resolved intellectually. I'm bouncing the ball to allow my intuition and inner guidance to "talk" to me.
Quote from: inavalan on March 05, 2022, 03:51:26 PMI actually don't expect to convince others, and can't be convinced by others
This is the human condition. Unless we directly experience we don't know, hence why we have chosen to come to earth plane to know - know how it is to be bombed know how it is to be the bomber. Whatever anyone's point of view is it is their's, a product of their experience.
Quote from: inavalan on March 05, 2022, 02:16:34 AMOne of the fundamental precepts at work here is that we have to make the changes at non-physical, thought level, and that will materialize into physical. The way I understand this, what I perceive is the result of my thoughts, emotions, beliefs, expectations (conscious, and unconscious)
This is for me - the most important work - while I am here. Invalan, you mention this in several places - and we talked about this here: change inner first. Eg - face or get rid of your fears, then you won't have to fear for your live because of epidemic, death of provider, war, etc. But if you don't, you create more or different fear - for your tomorrow.
And about us not living by "we create our reality" law - those who learn the creation science - get better. And world attitude/philosophy - spreads. Even if you don't talk about it. Seth has tons of info about telepathy. And others - about living your principles and being 'a transmitter'. Your work on yourself and progress in studying affects the world and others - as you go on living, stand in grocery lines, engage in casual conversations.
@inavalan "I just wanted to emphasize that most of us claim to subscribe to Seth's teachings, but don't correlate those teachings with our thoughts and actions in everyday life neither short, nor long term."
Is that a true statement?
In the Lennon clip inavalan posted, I believe guy sitting next to Lennon is Victor Spinetti who was in a number of films including:
1964 A Hard Day's Night T.V. Director
1965 Help! Foot
1967 Magical Mystery Tour Army Sergeant
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Spinetti
Quote from: strangerthings on March 05, 2022, 10:08:18 PM@inavalan
"I just wanted to emphasize that most of us claim to subscribe to Seth's teachings, but don't correlate those teachings with our thoughts and actions in everyday life neither short, nor long term."
Is that a true statement?
What are you asking? That is what I wrote.
Quote from: Mark M on March 05, 2022, 10:35:37 PMIn the Lennon clip inavalan posted, I believe guy sitting next to Lennon is Victor Spinetti who was in a number of films including:
1964 A Hard Day's Night T.V. Director
1965 Help! Foot
1967 Magical Mystery Tour Army Sergeant
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Spinetti
The gif I posted is from ~12:20, and it is about 1-2 minute in that part of the discussion. It applies to what's happening these days too.
Quote from: Bora137 on March 05, 2022, 04:28:37 PMUnless we directly experience we don't know, hence why we have chosen to come to earth plane to know - know how it is to be bombed know how it is to be the bomber.
Bora, being a bomber means to be a killer. Seth clearly condemned killing. If a Russian air force pilot were ordered to bomb Ukraine, and if he were a Seth reader, he would disobery orders.
"You want to examine the universe from the outside, to examine your societies from the outside. You still think that the interior world is somehow symbolic and the exterior world is real —
that wars, for example, are fought by themselves or with bombs. All of the time, the psychological reality is the primary one, that forms all of your events."
—NoME Part Three: Chapter 7: Session 855, May 21, 1979
Quote from: Sena on March 06, 2022, 10:00:28 PMQuote from: Bora137 on March 05, 2022, 04:28:37 PMUnless we directly experience we don't know, hence why we have chosen to come to earth plane to know - know how it is to be bombed know how it is to be the bomber.
Bora, being a bomber means to be a killer. Seth clearly condemned killing. If a Russian air force pilot were ordered to bomb Ukraine, and if he were a Seth reader, he would disobery orders.
"You want to examine the universe from the outside, to examine your societies from the outside. You still think that the interior world is somehow symbolic and the exterior world is real — that wars, for example, are fought by themselves or with bombs. All of the time, the psychological reality is the primary one, that forms all of your events."
—NoME Part Three: Chapter 7: Session 855, May 21, 1979
This is another misunderstanding: your highlight is actually an example of our (human) incorrect thinking that "the exterior world is real", which is not. Actually: 'the psychological reality is the primary one, that forms all of your events.'
----
You are too emotional, which is understandable but incorrect, so unhelpful to you; it doesn't matter for anybody else.
There is also a matter of where you draw the line: isn't an Ukrainian air force pilot bombing the Russians in the East Ukraine a killer too? Wouldn't Biden, Macron, Johnson & co. be killers too if NATO responded military (Seth said there is no reason to kill, talking about physical killing) and / or push their nuclear buttons as reaction to a Russian nuclear attack?
Isn't killing to kill a chicken, a pig, a cow, a fish, wheat, ...? And so on.
The way I understand reality to be, and what we are here to do, as I wrote above: you are too emotional, which is understandable but incorrect, so unhelpful to you; it doesn't matter for anybody else.
Nonviolent resistance in Ukraine:
https://www.yesmagazine.org/democracy/2022/03/01/ukraine-civilian-resistance
Quote from: Sena on March 06, 2022, 10:00:28 PMAll of the time, the psychological reality is the primary one, that forms all of your events."
Thank you Sena, this is a good one!
Quote from: inavalan on March 06, 2022, 10:40:59 PMThere is also a matter of where you draw the line: isn't an Ukrainian air force pilot bombing the Russians in the East Ukraine a killer too?
Here I go back to what Roman Catholic theology calls a "just war":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_war_theory
Killing German soldiers who were fighting for Hitler was just. Killing German civilians was probably not just.
QuoteThe just war doctrine of the Catholic Church found in the 1992 Catechism of the Catholic Church, in paragraph 2309, lists four strict conditions for "legitimate defense by military force":[29][30]
the damage inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community of nations must be lasting, grave, and certain;
all other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective;
there must be serious prospects of success;
the use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated .[/quote}
... (double post)
Quote from: inavalan on March 07, 2022, 12:35:49 PMQuote from: Sena on March 07, 2022, 10:55:06 AMQuote from: inavalan on March 06, 2022, 10:40:59 PMThere is also a matter of where you draw the line: isn't an Ukrainian air force pilot bombing the Russians in the East Ukraine a killer too?
Here I go back to what Roman Catholic theology calls a "just war":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_war_theory
Killing German soldiers who were fighting for Hitler was just. Killing German civilians was probably not just.
QuoteThe just war doctrine of the Catholic Church found in the 1992 Catechism of the Catholic Church, in paragraph 2309, lists four strict conditions for "legitimate defense by military force":[29][30]
the damage inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community of nations must be lasting, grave, and certain;
all other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective;
there must be serious prospects of success;
the use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated .[/quote}
As I mentioned in another post
Quote from: inavalan on March 05, 2022, 02:16:34 AM...
With this reply I just wanted to emphasize that most of us claim to subscribe to Seth's teachings, but don't correlate those teachings with our thoughts and actions in everyday life neither short, nor long term.
...
Besides, you again (like with the Seth quote about bombing) misunderstood what I was referring to: the ethnic Russians from Eastern Ukraine bombed by the Ukrainian government for the last 7-8 years. I don't recall anybody being outraged. Are those ethnic Russians lesser people?
Napoleon is still glorified in France. Was he better than Hitler?
What is happening in Ukraine (and many other parts of the globe) is a tragedy. No doubt about that.
How we think about it, is important for each one of us individually! I believe that you don't look at it
applying Seth's teachings; for example:
- you display anger and hate
- you judge who deserves to be killed, and who doesn't
[/quote]
@inavalan Nail hammer head!
"Glorification"
"There should never be a word in any language that means repentance. There should only be a word that means, "I bless," for when you bless you do not need to repent. And when you accept a blessing, you do not need to repent. For when you realize how to accept a blessing, there is nothing to repent. Love of All That Is requires simply that you become open as air, for when you are open as air then the joy of All That Is flows through you indiscriminately, and there is nothing to repent. You only need repentance when you do not know joy. For within joy and within All That Is there is only glory that is only consciousness and song. There is only blessedness."
—ECS1 ESP Class Session, February 25, 1969
(Pardon moi I shall post this in 2 places)
I am looking for something specific and this popped up:
"Nationalistic glory in killing his enemies."
Shaming people doing this is glorifying shame.
When do we glorify mutual integrity in place of? I think when we redirect our, unkind to self or others, thoughts, toward a mutual integrity that frees the stress part holding particular thoughts and believing them to be true. Practicing this requires us to pay attention to our thoughts and maintain maintenance.
Freedom requires freedom.
I think right there I find this open as air, or "flexibility" ringing a liberty bell.
Also, there is this, which is a part of my affirmations and blessings taken from a Seth CD:
"Thank myself for the joys of my being and the glory of my days." ( he goes on to say bless your smallest cells of your ear, etc.)
Quote from: strangerthings on March 07, 2022, 09:04:22 PMI am looking for something specific and this popped up:
"Nationalistic glory in killing his enemies."
Shaming people doing this is glorifying shame.
When do we glorify mutual integrity in place of? I think when we redirect our, unkind to self or others, thoughts, toward a mutual integrity that frees the stress part holding particular thoughts and believing them to be true. Practicing this requires us to pay attention to our thoughts and maintain maintenance.
Freedom requires freedom.
I think right there I find this open as air, or "flexibility" ringing a liberty bell.
Also, there is this, which is a part of my affirmations and blessings taken from a Seth CD:
"Thank myself for the joys of my being and the glory of my days." ( he goes on to say bless your smallest cells of your ear, etc.)
Would you mind explaining what you meant here?
- "Nationalistic glory in killing his enemies."
Shaming people doing this is glorifying shame.
I don't understand what is your position. Please reformulate it. Is killing enemies a glory or a shame, or neither. What is that which you call "glorifying shame"?
I strongly agree with:
- Freedom requires freedom.
on the lines I understand it, but I'm not sure what you meant.
I think that you can't fight for another's freedom when your freedom is restricted (as it seems to be the trend in this "spacious present" we're experiencing).
I also strongly agree with
- pay attention to our thoughts
in the sense that one has to pay attention to their thoughts, as thoughts together with emotions, beliefs, expectations, create our perceived reality.
Meditation usually recommends to watch your thoughts and let them go. That may help in reducing your mind chatter, but there is so much more that you can find in your thoughts: your future reality!
You have to get in the habit of paying attention to your thoughts, and when you don't like them immediately change your thoughts to something you like!
"...your own preoccupation with arms, as a country..." --Seth, Nov 1972 ESP class
This is really depraved:
https://portside.org/2022-03-07/arms-industry-sees-ukraine-conflict-opportunity-not-crisis
@inavalan Leaders who kill their enemies are glorifed.
I was looking for something in the Seth books about glory and that popped up. https://nowdictation.com/q/book:tps2+heading:'deleted+session+august+30+1972'+Glory/
Turns out what I was looking for is on a cd.
Glorifying shame...
Getting off on shaming, like bullies have supporters or some school teachers, significant others and extreme side? Witchhunts. Shame to murder is still not a solution for an individual.
One could shame a "leader" for not killing. Or for killing. One is still avoiding the interior looking glass. "What is coming at me is coming from within me. "
Shame has electromagnetic momentum. ( leading you to your self written traffic tickets lol)
How the US Could Solve the Ukraine Crisis Tomorrow
https://www.commondreams.org/views/2022/03/07/how-us-could-solve-ukraine-crisis-tomorrow
When opening your wallet:
https://www.give.org/news/growing-needs-in-ukraine
https://www.give.org/news/wise-giving-wednesday-tips-on-donations-to-assist-ukraine-relief-efforts
These are Russia's new demands now, according to Reuters:
1) Ukraine cease military action
2) Ukraine change its constitution to enshrine neutrality [no admission to NATO]
3) Ukraine acknowledge Crimea as Russian territory
4) Ukraine recognize the separatist republics of Donetsk and Lugansk as independent states
from https://davidswanson.org/russias-demands-have-changed/
Since Russia is a nuclear power, negotiating these is a safer bet than trying to institute no-fly zones, shipping weapons to Ukraine and so forth.
With nuclear war, everyone loses/dies.
https://davidswanson.org/30-nonviolent-things-russia-could-have-done-and-30-nonviolent-things-ukraine-could-do/
In TPS, Bk 7, Sess 12/8/1983, after Rob asks Seth about TV news re: nuclear war: "Your world is not going to destroy itself. In terms of probabilities, the world is both saved and lost. Those who believe in peace will find it, and a world in which peace reigns."
Quote from: Mark M on March 16, 2022, 09:23:42 AMIn TPS, Bk 7, Sess 12/8/1983, after Rob asks Seth about TV news re: nuclear war: "Your world is not going to destroy itself. In terms of probabilities, the world is both saved and lost. Those who believe in peace will find it, and a world in which peace reigns."
What draws my attention from that quote is that "the world is both saved and lost", and that "Those who believe in peace will find it". To me this says that it isn't a matter of having or not having a nuclear war, but of individual choice (through one's own beliefs, only) of "experiencing" a nuclear war or not. (surely "experiencing" here is an euphemism). In the hyperspace of physical reality, there are all the possibilities. Each individual makes free choices at conscious level, including of changing their beliefs, which are the basis of the physical reality they experience (see session #622).
Rob comments further in the same Dec 8 transcript: "
(Seth's comments re war and probabilities evidently mean that in his view Jane and I have moved into a probable reality where nuclear war will not happen. At least I hope so."
Here Rob doesn't say that he understood that there won't be a nuclear war, but that Jane and he "moved into a probable reality where nuclear war will not happen". Others contemporaries of Jane and Rob, through their choices, moved to a reality in which there was a nuclear war. Now some of us make similar choices.
It is also interesting that in spite of Jane's health continuous decline, they were so much concerned about a nuclear holocaust. It says a lot about human nature, about fear. That fear was definitely counterproductive to Jane's healing. One's fear of death yields one's death, one path or another.
From the same session:
- I have some comments concerning Ruburt's health.
The healing processes have considerably quickened, so that the healing of the ulcers will very soon (underlined) be an accomplished fact. They are all rapidly healing.
The body will not have to use its energy very much longer in healing sores —thus freeing even more energy to set to work on the joints and muscles themselves, and the ligaments. And as the progress improves old bodily habits are also disrupted, and serve their purposes no longer.
(Pause.) Tell Ruburt that his spirits can indeed rise easily. That his natural emotions are beginning to sense their new freedom—so he has only to go along, and not fear any periods of blueness. These will gradually disappear almost completely as his improvements continue.
.
This is striking considering both the reality of Jane's health decline, and of what we know that followed (in the reality I moved to). It sounds like cheer-leading, and not as assessment of fact. Maybe in the reality in which Jane moved, she really got better.
Seth's calling Jane Ruburt is like saying "in 'Pretty Woman' Julia Roberts went on a shopping spree where she had been rejected earlier".
I think Seth is definitely trying to proactively shift Jane's beliefs about her health. If I was Seth this is what I would do.
Quote from: Bora137 on March 16, 2022, 03:51:10 PMI think Seth is definitely trying to proactively shift Jane's beliefs about her health. If I was Seth this is what I would do.
What I was thinking is that it doesn't matter much if one affirms that they want to be healthy, and think in terms of being healthy, while are afraid of an impeding nuclear war, or a pandemic, or such. Fear is fear. Fear of death is fear of death. Intellectualized beliefs are weaker than emotional beliefs, and fear generated by the survival instinct is stronger than a will for alleviating pain and suffering.
It wasn't just Jane and Rob concerned about nuclear war in 1983.
This movie was current and got people thinking:
The Day After (1983)
The effects of a devastating nuclear holocaust [story centered] on small-town residents of eastern Kansas.
The overall trend of Jane's health was "worse and worse," but on the way "down," there were brief periods of improvement then setback, and I credit Seth with at least trying to plant hope.
...I contend that if the goal was to minimize human suffering, the violent response to Putin's violent invasion has proved counterproductive. Thousands of Ukrainian and Russian fighters have died. The frustrated Russian invaders have turned to indiscriminate urban bombing. Civilian deaths are mounting. Millions have fled their homes.
Meanwhile, individual Europeans and North Americans hurry to join the mutual slaughter. Prominent voices plead for NATO aircraft to enter the fray. They sympathize with Ukrainians, yet call for increased suffering. They don't know what else to do.
In 1940, Adolf Hitler sent German forces into Denmark. Understanding that military resistance was futile, the Danes—without nonviolence training—opted for protest, noncooperation, and sabotage. Their cities weren't destroyed. Casualties were relatively minimal. The Danes endured five years of humiliating German occupation. They survived.
Imagine the Ukrainians doing likewise. Indeed, protest rallies have begun in Russian-occupied cities. It might violate your sense of justice and honor—there's the war germ again—but perhaps nonviolent resistance to foreign occupation is better than mutual slaughter and whatever follows.
Since we're just imagining, we can do better. In 1994, the Ukrainian government renounced its nuclear weapons. What if the government had eliminated its military altogether and replaced it with nonviolent training for all? We've seen small groups of unarmed Ukrainians turn back Russian tanks; imagine millions—men, women, children—with the courage and knowledge for nonviolent resistance. Sympathetic foreigners could join them without worsening the situation.
Of course, since an anti-military Ukrainian government would have shunned NATO's advances, Putin might have left Ukraine unmolested. Putin, you see, is just a vector; the real enemy is war itself.
While we're at it, imagine nonviolent international peacekeepers—no guns, no blue helmets—who can intervene between parties in conflict, reducing fear and dehumanization, bearing witness. Nonviolent Peaceforce already does this on a small scale; more such non-governmental groups are needed. Then, when a warlord orders a foreign invasion, tens of thousands of unarmed civilians, from around the world, could converge to stand in the way.
"Nonviolent defenders could never stop an invading army." That's the war germ. But many bewildered and remorseful Russian soldiers quickly surrendered in Ukraine. Imagine how many more would have abandoned their posts if, rather than dodging Ukrainian bullets, they had found themselves face-to-face with a festive parade of civilians expressing concern and friendship, refusing to become infected with the dehumanizing desire to kill, but also refusing to give way.
Just to be clear: Nonviolence isn't passivity and doesn't involve flight. Nonviolence is confronting your opponent with courageous compassion. Nonviolence requires the willingness to suffer, even die—just like soldiering—but without the willingness to cause harm.
Nonviolence promises a cure for the war disease. Imagine if masses of trained nonviolent defenders had minimized casualties in Ukraine and demoralized—no, re-moralized—the Russian invaders. One such highly visible success would prove to many skeptics that killing is not the only viable method of national defense—an important step toward total delegitimization of murderous conflict resolution. The first country that institutionalizes unarmed civilian defense will change the world.
Alternatively, we can keep hoping the disease will cure itself, that more slaughter will end all wars.
https://www.counterpunch.org/2022/03/16/the-root-problem-is-war-not-putin/
Quote from: Mark M on March 17, 2022, 12:12:00 AM...I contend ...
https://www.counterpunch.org/2022/03/16/the-root-problem-is-war-not-putin/
Two of the thoughts that crossed my mind reading your post:
- You don't know what's happening, neither on the ground there, nor behind closed doors. I had the experience to go through a similar violent event, and being there you don't know neither what's happening, nor why. you actually never know for sure. And in that situation there was no such obvious propaganda in the media, and there was no social media at the time, no internet.
- The peaceful approach usually doesn't work, neither with humans nor in nature. The Danes would still be occupied if they weren't liberated by others, many of whom lost their lives fighting Germany. In Eastern Ukraine there was a smoldering war going on, carried by the Ukrainian military against those Russian populations from 2014. The peace was never implemented.
Although we look at life as it is the general understanding, that's almost 180 degrees opposite to how Seth says the reality works. No one's reality is imposed by another if he / she doesn't give away the free will, the free choice.
I understand when you say "let's do", or "if people did", and such. I use those phrases, and I think in those terms too. But that isn't Sethian. It's difficult to change your beliefs; I know. Browse session 622!
Quote from: Mark M on March 16, 2022, 11:25:33 PMIt wasn't just Jane and Rob concerned about nuclear war in 1983.
This movie was current and got people thinking:
The Day After (1983)
The effects of a devastating nuclear holocaust [story centered] on small-town residents of eastern Kansas.
Fear is fear. It doesn't matter to you if others are fearful or not. It doesn't matter if the fear is apparently justified. Your fear shapes your negative reality. You can't blame your experience on others. If Jane was afraid of war, that impacted her health and well-being.
I don't think there is a simple solution to this situation. I have a hard time seeing any other option right now than the way Ukraine is reacting to the assault by Russia. Reacting peacefully with no defensive action and the war would have been over the first day... but still with Ukrainian civilians and soldiers slaughtered, probably the government leaders too, and Ukraine would be annexed by Russia. Then which nation is next? Ukraine is not just defending Ukraine. On a personal level, someone physically attacks you in an alley somewhere. Do you fight back or just prepare to die? Being unenlightened, I would defend myself. And if a third party stepped in to help me, I would be grateful.
I don't feel Ukraine provoked the attack, Putin has had his eye on Ukraine for years. And it's hard for me to accept him seeing Ukraine as a threat to Russia—by the vast difference in land mass size alone plus Ukraine's lack of weaponry and no nukes. I feel a bully will continue to be a bully if he continues to get what he wants and there's nothing to deter him. The free world is trying to help Ukraine by providing supplies, weapons included, but not get involved directly with the fighting. Not the Sethian ideal of peace, but we are here to learn. Even Seth said if you see someone in need, you should not look the other way and say the person is just making their own reality. He said if we can help someone, we should. Where do we draw that line?
A bully will not change his ways if he always gets what he wants. Even a large amount of Russian citizens seem to be against what Putin is doing. I personally know a few people in Russia and they are disgusted with and shamed by him. They provide photos of peaceful protesters being arrested. It's hard for me to trust MSM at this point, there has been the usual share of propaganda, dishonesty, Photoshop and repurposed images.
Session 414 in Early Sessions 8 is pretty pertinent to what's going on, even though Seth was talking about the Kennedy and King assassinations. I can provide the entire session if someone wants to read it. Here's a bit:
"Strength does not come in national terms, real strength, by bullying
aggressive stance. But it does come when the people within a nation are
making an honest effort to bring about in physical reality the materialization
of their individual and mass ideals. The best that is in them, whatever their
point of development. The unity and strength is psychically recognized."
So these may be those people "making an effort." Again, we are here in F1 to learn. As the saying goes, the world is a stage. If looking at it from a Sethian view, Russia attacking Ukraine is playing out to make a statement and forcing the free world into an accelerated learning experience. It certainly has had a unifying effect. Hopefully when this is over Putin and others like himself will be shamed (if capable of it), and learn that countries unify when there is an aggressor like him.
Here's a blog post I came across recently which I thought was interesting. It talks about the reason why Putin may be the way he is. Personally I don't feel an unhappy childhood is an excuse. Many people had one, including myself, and we turned out ok. Maybe more compassionate because of it. A lot of them made careers out of helping others who had grown up in similar circumstances. Why some people use their misfortune to make the world a better place, and why others do just the opposite, is a mystery to me.
https://acestoohigh.com/2022/03/02/how-vladimir-putins-childhood-is-affecting-us-all/
Actually, what the article I excerpted is saying is consonant with Seth:
"There will never be a justification for killing or violence."
—Seth, ECS1, ESP Class Session, January 21, 1969
Are you saying I cannot defend myself?
"Not at all. You could counter such an attack in several ways that do not involve killing. You would not be in such a hypothetical situation to begin with unless violent thoughts of your own, faced or unfaced, had attracted it to you. But once it is a fact, and according to the circumstances, many methods could be used. Because you consider aggression synonymous with violence, you may not understand that aggressive — forceful, active, mental or spoken — commands for peace could save your life in such a case; yet they could."
—Seth, NoPR, Chapter 8: Session 634, January 22, 1973
This book gives some examples of defusing what would otherwise be a violent incident:
Rosenberg, Marshall B. (2003). Nonviolent Communication: A Language of Life (2nd ed.). Encinitas, CA: PuddleDancer Press
1940–1943 Denmark Danish resistance movement During World War II, after the invasion of the Wehrmacht, the Danish government adopted a policy of official co-operation (and unofficial obstruction) which they called "negotiation under protest." Embraced by many Danes, the unofficial resistance included slow production, emphatic celebration of Danish culture and history, and bureaucratic quagmires.
1940–1945 Norway Norwegian resistance movement During World War II, Norwegian civil disobedience included preventing the Nazification of Norway's educational system, distributing of illegal newspapers, and maintaining social distance (an "ice front") from the German soldiers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonviolent_resistance
GENE SHARP'S 198 METHODS OF NONVIOLENT ACTION:
https://wri-irg.org/en/resources/2008/gene-sharps-198-methods-nonviolent-action
inavalan wrote:
"The peaceful approach usually doesn't work..."
"Ackerman offers two possible factors contributing to the recent decline in the success rate of nonviolent campaigns (***still higher than that for violent campaigns***)."
https://davidswanson.org/check-out-the-check-list-to-end-tyranny/
All that said, no one is saying the Ukraine and other fraught scenes are easy. They are clearly enormous challenges.
Nonviolent resistance requires as much bravery as using weapons and in neither case is one's safety guaranteed.
Some Ukrainians are resisting nonviolently such as changing street signs and so forth.
'(Just before the session, we saw a newscast of a congressional committee in Washington, with some well-known scientists testifying as to the probable aftereffects of nuclear war—how the instigator would also eventually destroy itself even if the attacked never fired a retaliatory strike at all. Because of temperature changes on the earth, and so forth.
'(I was appalled as what I was seeing began to sink in. So was Jane. "Do you think the human species is insane?" I asked her. We were watching grown men discuss the end of the species—with means given to politicians by science. "I wouldn't mind hearing your boy comment on this," I said to my wife.)'
All Seth said was already quoted:
"Your world is not going to destroy itself. In terms of probabilities, the world is both saved and lost. Those who believe in peace will find it, and a world in which peace reigns."
—TPS7 Deleted Session December 8, 1983
But:
"(To me [Rob Butts]) Since your birth a probability has occurred that you could have followed, in which your wars did not happen. There is another probability in which the Second World War ended in nuclear destruction, and you did not enter that one either. You chose 'this' probable reality in order to ask certain questions about the nature of man — seeing him where he wavered equally between creativity and destruction, knowledge and ignorance; but a point that contained potentials for the most auspicious kinds of development, in your eyes. The same applies to Ruburt."
—Seth, The Nature of the Psyche, Chapter 11: Session 797, March 14, 1977
The film I mentioned quite likely "instigated" the congressional hearing.
Even Reagan watched the film:
Effects on policymakers
After seeing the film, Ronald Reagan wrote that the film was very effective and left him depressed.
U.S. President Ronald Reagan watched the film more than a month before its screening on Columbus Day, October 10, 1983.[29] He wrote in his diary that the film was "very effective and left me greatly depressed",[30][26] and that it changed his mind on the prevailing policy on a "nuclear war".[31]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Day_After
'Another small point here: Christ's dictum to turn the other cheek (Matthew 5:39, for instance) was a psychologically crafty method of warding off violence — not of accepting it. Symbolically it represented an animal showing its belly to an adversary. (Jane, as Seth, patted her midriff.) The remark was meant symbolically. On certain levels, it was the gesture of defeat that brought triumph and survival. It was not meant to be the cringing act of a martyr who said, "Hit me again," but represented a biologically pertinent statement, a communication of body language. Give us a moment... (Softly:) It would cleverly remind the attacker of the "old" communicative postures of the sane animals.'
—NoPR Part Two: Chapter 21: Session 673, June 27, 1973
Maybe it's my belief, but I think engaging in violence courts "karmic consequences" more so than nonviolence.
"There are laws of a sort that govern these matters. But you can mark my words: In one way or another, all debts are paid. These so-called debts are actually challenges to the particular personalities involved. The word debt implies guilt, and such a connotation is not my intention.
The sense of original sin, however, which unfortunately has been made so much of, is undoubtedly in part an inner recognition of debts of this sort, hanging over the personality at birth. But again there is no guilt in the terms usually applied to that word."
—TES1 Session 21 February 3, 1964
When Germany reunified, Russia was promised that NATO would not expand further east. Clinton broke the promise as have successor presidents.
Biden's CIA director, William Burns, has been warning about the provocative effect of NATO expansion on Russia since 1995.
George Kennan made similar warnings as even did war criminal Henry Kissinger.
Even the miscreant president, Trump, wanted to leave NATO.
There is no more Warsaw Pact, why is there a NATO?
The "adults in the room" must have explained to Trump that U.S. arms merchants love NATO expansion -- and wars -- because that means arms sales. Raytheon CEO Greg Hayes was quoted as being optimistic about rising tensions in Eastern Europe saying that he "fully expects" that "we're going to see some benefit from it."
Putin actually once expressed interest in joining NATO. Somehow that fell through and now he has, like many U.S. presidents, become a war criminal with his invasion of Ukraine.
Before resorting to invasion, Putin actually had some reasonable demands entirely ignored by Biden.
What follows is from:
https://davidswanson.org/russias-demands-have-changed/
Here were Russia's demands for months starting in early December 2021:
Article 1: the parties should not strengthen their security at the expense of Russia's security;
Article 2: the parties will use multilateral consultations and the NATO-Russia Council to address points of conflict;
Article 3: the parties reaffirm that they do not consider each other as adversaries and maintain a dialogue;
Article 4: the parties shall not deploy military forces and weaponry on the territory of any of the other states in Europe in addition to any forces that were deployed as of May 27, 1997;
Article 5: the parties shall not deploy land-based intermediate- and short-range missiles adjacent to the other parties;
Article 6: all member States of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization commit themselves to refrain from any further enlargement of NATO, including the accession of Ukraine as well as other States;
Article 7: the parties that are member States of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization shall not conduct any military activity on the territory of Ukraine as well as other States in the Eastern Europe, in the South Caucasus and in Central Asia; and
Article 8: the agreement shall not be interpreted as affecting the primary responsibility of the Security Council of the United Nations for maintaining international peace and security.
These were perfectly reasonable, just what the U.S. demanded when Soviet missiles were in Cuba, just what the U.S. would demand now if Russian missiles were in Canada, and ought to have simply been met, or at the very least treated as serious points to be respectfully considered.
There is an HTML tag "s" that stands for stike-out, and needs to be removed. stike-out
You added after "fully expect" an s between square brackets.
Quote from: dougdi on March 02, 2022, 04:13:54 PMHe sure does seem miserable in public.
yep, agree me too
I agree, he really seems miserable
Quote from: Marianna on March 03, 2022, 11:43:08 AMQuote from: inavalan on March 02, 2022, 08:40:29 PMThat (my underlining) is a remarkable observation, and it is my experience too. Emotions always bring in one's reality situations that yield the same kind of emotions, avalanching.
Thank you Inavalan.
And observation about reality creation is surely not something I would say to my family. It'll hardly be helpful.
I can offer only - distraction, breathing techniques, mild New Age visuals, encouragement - different thing for every family member.
But I can't take "life creation" philosophy out of myself. Most fascinating practical science.
Same with my family and most friends. we can only live with them giving precense and engourage, be "example" if able to do it. "shine yor light" without words and instructions for them who do not hear this call.
Quote from: Marianna on March 04, 2022, 06:22:56 PMQuote from: Mark M on March 04, 2022, 11:23:14 AMviolence is never justified
I agree absolutely. So politicians are faced with a difficult new situation - how to resolve this. They cannot just expect good, send light and so on.
I seriously doubt politicians ability or inclination to resolve this-or some other problem like these.
Quote from: Marianna on March 04, 2022, 06:22:56 PMQuote from: Mark M on March 04, 2022, 11:23:14 AMviolence is never justified
I agree absolutely. So politicians are faced with a difficult new situation - how to resolve this. They cannot just expect good, send light and so on.
Quote from: inavalan on March 05, 2022, 03:51:26 PMQuote from: Marianna on March 05, 2022, 03:30:57 PMQuote from: inavalan on March 05, 2022, 02:16:34 AMWith this reply I just wanted to emphasize that most of us claim to subscribe to Seth's teachings, but don't correlate those teachings with our thoughts and actions in everyday life neither short, nor long term.
and still, invalan, we are doing our best in this Earth school - learning, practicing, improving with practice.
I know that ... but the result for many (most?) is a lot of pain and suffering. I don't see any improvement. People must be doing something wrong.
Seth: He also said aggression is good. He said love is synonymous with creativity, and not just what we believe to be. He said good and evil are just man's constructs based on pleasure.
He said many things, and each one of us interprets them in our own ways. Also, most of us don't apply Seth in our lives at all, or quite distorted, the likes of religions.
I actually don't expect to convince others, and can't be convinced by others, as these discussions can't be resolved intellectually. I'm bouncing the ball to allow my intuition and inner guidance to "talk" to me.
maybe-i think "the good aggression" could be like (we are told) as jesus threw money changers out from temple. Out-yes, but never said they will go to hell and never to heaven with him = giudged the act, not the doer. aggression in his - Seths - teachings had many aspects as giving birth etc.
- and yep, we cannot change others - "them". only work on ourselves. So if/when I change also the collective conciousness changes a bit, you add your bit, and then another bit and piece it goes on...
TES 9 SESSION 498
AUGUST 25, 1969 9:33 PM MONDAY
(This afternoon Jane's editor at Prentice-Hall, Tam Mossman, called
her re the Seth book Jane is completing for P/H. Tam also had a couple of questions, which Seth begins to answer in this session.
(Before the session this evening I spent some time blowing off steam
about a variety of large issues that we see reflected in our daily news media—such things as corruption, pollution, inflation, the destiny of the race if itpersists in its present ways, etc. Actually I feel deeply about these thingsand become quite furious over actions that seem blatantly destructive to us in the long run. A rather innocent remark made by Jane shortly before 9 PM got me started, hence the session's late beginning.
(Jane also wanted to know about a rather startling experience of her
own last Friday afternoon, involving an elderly friend.)
Good evening.
("Good evening, Seth.")
Now. I have several things to say, and we will try to answer questions
that you have in mind.
First of all, (to me) do not lose your sense of perspective, that larger
perspective, that our work should give you. You are also involved in other realities and other experiments. There is more, and there are trends now in your own reality that you do not see.
Not only this, but even if the race as you know it distorts itself beyond belief, or even destroys itself, the many will not forget. The knowledge, hard won, would be as instinct when the race began again. The losers then would become stern teachers, having learned through experience.
Each experiment is a success, regardless of whether it succeeds or fails in your terms, and each experiment also brings with it new elements of creativity, new innovations having appeared. These are retained. There are various levels all operating, various levels of consciousness and identity. They cannot be forcibly restrained, for they would learn
nothing. What they do learn however is always retained. This does not mean that each succeeding earth experiment will be made up of selves who have been through these cycles.
They may be personalities new to the system, new for that matter
(humorously) to any ideas, completely unused to conceptual thought or vision, beings only now emerging into strong individuality. Consciousness at your level is at a crisis point for many reasons.
Within your system, for the "first time", in quotes, individualized
consciousness is strongly-enough organized to do, in quotes, "good or evil." Before that it was protected, somewhat coddled, with instinctual behavior holding it in bounds. It is not able to utilize enough energy to maintain a system of its own, but operates as an adjunct to other stronger systems. Now some of those within your reality are having their first experience with an ego as you think of it. Others are returning to it, the system, in an effort to learn more. There are guardians, so to speak, within your system, reincarnated for the last time to help keep it in some kind of order while the others mature. There are also some, not physical, who keep an eye out over the whole proceedings.
The training is necessary. The results at any given stage may not
appear very hopeful, and in your terms there is indeed what seems to be a cumulative effect. There is a system of checks and balances that do operate. These exist within the inner selves. The system of checks and balances will operate up to a point, and maintain some stability.
There are alarm signals that trigger warnings through the entire
physical reality. Disaster indeed shows itself within the dream state before it appears as physical fact.
Your ego is now focused within this reality. You have other egos
focused in other realities. The inner self is aware of what is being done in all of these realities. There is some compensation, and the race knows this.
Ruburt wrote that there were clumps of consciousness, and of course he is correct. You are a part of many such clumps of consciousness. The abilities and potentials are not only being developed in this system but in others. The race also realizes well the advantages and disadvantages of the physical reality it has adopted. It knows for example that there is a tendency to go to extremes. I mentioned earlier that the rewards, the challenges and the dangers exist precisely because so much freedom is allowed. Now. Those within the system know this. Regardless of what you may think of their present performance at any given "time" in quotes, it is from this system that the greatest potentials emerge; for having dealt with it, consciousness undergoes one of the severest tests in learning to handle its
own energy.
The horror and the results of mismanagement, and the vulnerability, are the teaching methods that each consciousness has accepted before entering your system. There is no way out but to learn or to ruin the entire
system. In no other field of reality are the terms so drastic. For this reason the inner self withholds much of its knowledge. There must be no leaning upon the very basic fact that behind and within the system there is relief. You must believe in the physical reality and accept the vulnerability. Now, from your system spring some of the most advanced of all identities. They go on and learn from other realities, granted, but yours is the hardest to manage, and those who accept it go off into a certain line of development where the potentials are beyond anything of which you can presently conceive.
Now I am telling you this evening not only because of your own
earlier discussion, but also because this material will fit in with other
sessions that I have in mind. You are not only ready for them but you are demanding them, and until you are ready you would not understand them. First, quite simply, there are many who do not see those failings and shortcomings and trends of which you spoke earlier. They cannot be told; they learn. Now alone they would not be permitted to destroy an entire reality. The mixture of consciousness within your system gives some control. The child must mature, and your system is a maturing ground, a
very primary one. A beginning school for those who are trying out for particular kinds of experience. Some simply will not succeed. They will continue instead along other lines of development.
Now, you have quite literally put in your time, for centuries.
(Humorously.) This is one of the reasons that you find yourself very
impatient with the development of your fellows, who have not had that
advantage as yet. You have learned. You cannot understand why they have not.
There are cycles of entry into your system. Now the first, quote
"mass" entries do not give you war. Those entering are at first too
bewildered. Manipulation within the physical universe is strange. They do not realize the potential of their own energy, and it is not until they begin to realize it that they are, quote, "led into temptation."
They have to learn to handle it constructively. Now cooperation is an innate feature to these entering selves. Without it they could not survive long enough to learn anything. The warlike periods do not begin until this group achieves some ability at manipulation. Now while it seems to you that there has been little advance, there has indeed in the overall. Larger masses of individuals than ever before in this cycle realize that killing is wrong.
Now this cycle that I am speaking of goes back to the beginning of
history as it is generally known, to your cavemen. You may take your breakand we will continue.
(10:20-10:35.)
Now. We will get on with some other subjects. But remember you
must consider the race and its inhabitants in the entire context of existence if you are to be realistic.
The bold is all Seth.
I hope this is helpful.
It sure is meaty.
Quote from: strangerthings on March 18, 2022, 12:36:45 AMI hope this is helpful.
It sure is meaty.
Would you mind expounding on what you got from the "meaty" quote you posted? Thanks.
I'm currently browsing Zealand's "RealityTransurfing", and I found the following quote quite appropriate for how the masses behaved, and still do in regard to covid, Ukraine, totalitarianism, ...
- "People often make fatal mistakes when they are under the zombifying anaesthesia of a pendulum, only later realizing that they were unaware of their actions and had forgotten to be vigilant."
It's possible per the thinking below, we are all being played -- at the expense of the people of Ukraine:
+ Chomsky: "Putin has succeeded in establishing the Atlanticist [NATO-based] system even more solidly than before. The gift [to Washington] is so welcome that some sober and well-informed analysts have speculated that it was Washington's goal all along."
https://www.counterpunch.org/2022/03/11/roaming-charges-44/
This is the thinking (from the article linked below):
Until 1998, the mainstream view of US support for the anti-communist insurgency in Afghanistan throughout the 1980s was that it had been a response to the Russian invasion of December 1979. But in an interview in 1998, Zbigniew Brzezinski, National Security Advisor to US President Jimmy Carter, admitted that the truth was the exact opposite. In fact "it was July 3, 1979 that President Carter signed the first directive for secret aid to the opponents of the pro-Soviet regime in Kabul. And that very day, I wrote a note to the president in which I explained to him that in my opinion this aid was going to induce a Soviet military intervention...The day that the Soviets officially crossed the border, I wrote to President Carter, essentially: 'We now have the opportunity of giving to the USSR its Vietnam war.' Indeed, for almost 10 years, Moscow had to carry on a war that was unsustainable for the regime, a conflict that brought about the demoralization and finally the breakup of the Soviet empire." Asked whether he regretted the move, which plunged Afghanistan into a conflict which is now into its fifth decade, he replied "Regret what? That secret operation was an excellent idea. It had the effect of drawing the Russians into the Afghan trap and you want me to regret it?" Plunging the Afghan people into a half-century of devastating war was of no consequence for the likes of Brzezinski. His successors clearly have the same attitude towards Ukraine.
From:
https://www.counterpunch.org/2022/03/11/russia-has-been-baited-into-a-repeat-of-the-afghan-trap-first-time-as-tragedy-second-time-as-sickening-farce/
Thanks to inavalan for pointing out the bracketed s was the reason for the unintended strikethroughs in a prior post of mine.
Quote from: Mark M on March 18, 2022, 10:14:38 AMIt's possible per the thinking below, we are all being played -- at the expense of the people of Ukraine:
+ Chomsky: "Putin has succeeded in establishing the Atlanticist [NATO-based] system even more solidly than before. The gift [to Washington] is so welcome that some sober and well-informed analysts have speculated that it was Washington's goal all along."
https://www.counterpunch.org/2022/03/11/roaming-charges-44/
This is the thinking (from the article linked below):
Until 1998, the mainstream view of US support for the anti-communist insurgency in Afghanistan throughout the 1980s was that it had been a response to the Russian invasion of December 1979. But in an interview in 1998, Zbigniew Brzezinski, National Security Advisor to US President Jimmy Carter, admitted that the truth was the exact opposite. In fact "it was July 3, 1979 that President Carter signed the first directive for secret aid to the opponents of the pro-Soviet regime in Kabul. And that very day, I wrote a note to the president in which I explained to him that in my opinion this aid was going to induce a Soviet military intervention...The day that the Soviets officially crossed the border, I wrote to President Carter, essentially: 'We now have the opportunity of giving to the USSR its Vietnam war.' Indeed, for almost 10 years, Moscow had to carry on a war that was unsustainable for the regime, a conflict that brought about the demoralization and finally the breakup of the Soviet empire." Asked whether he regretted the move, which plunged Afghanistan into a conflict which is now into its fifth decade, he replied "Regret what? That secret operation was an excellent idea. It had the effect of drawing the Russians into the Afghan trap and you want me to regret it?" Plunging the Afghan people into a half-century of devastating war was of no consequence for the likes of Brzezinski. His successors clearly have the same attitude towards Ukraine.
From:
https://www.counterpunch.org/2022/03/11/russia-has-been-baited-into-a-repeat-of-the-afghan-trap-first-time-as-tragedy-second-time-as-sickening-farce/
I think that these opinions are good examples of how one's "interpretation of their perceptions" is their reality, when one doesn't make efforts to sideline their own limiting beliefs. Surely, those opinions may also be conscious attempts at promoting self-serving narratives.
NOTE: Just to make clear: in this case, my comment refers to Brzezinski, and the old communist, not to the author of the quoted post,
@Mark M.
Quote from: inavalan on March 18, 2022, 01:15:20 AMQuote from: strangerthings on March 18, 2022, 12:36:45 AMI hope this is helpful.
It sure is meaty.
Would you mind expounding on what you got from the "meaty" quote you posted? Thanks.
Quote from: inavalan on March 18, 2022, 01:15:20 AMQuote from: strangerthings on March 18, 2022, 12:36:45 AMI hope this is helpful.
It sure is meaty.
Would you mind expounding on what you got from the "meaty" quote you posted? Thanks.
I will post it elsewhere later to do that.
Seth-Related Discussions Topics about Seth quotes, questions about understanding concepts, Seth or Jane Roberts books. Please, no posts about other teachers. Any posts or topics regarding other teachers/speakers will be split and moved to the Other Speakers/Teachers board.
Lets keep this as intended please. I realize we forget but this area is for us to understand things through using Seth material. Not others. There are other areas for that.
There is zealand, chomsky, some newsy site... completely unrelated to seth teaching us. Please keep this is mind. For me I havent a clue what you are referring to. Please try to not go off the rails here. Thanks.
Quote from: strangerthings on March 18, 2022, 03:18:08 PMSeth-Related Discussions Topics about Seth quotes, questions about understanding concepts, Seth or Jane Roberts books. Please, no posts about other teachers. Any posts or topics regarding other teachers/speakers will be split and moved to the Other Speakers/Teachers board.
Lets keep this as intended please. I realize we forget but this area is for us to understand things through using Seth material. Not others. There are other areas for that.
There is zealand, chomsky, some newsy site... completely unrelated to seth teaching us. Please keep this is mind. For me I havent a clue what you are referring to. Please try to not go off the rails here. Thanks.
I believe that anybody can skip what they aren't interested in. In my opinion those examples you referred to where pertinent to the subject in discussion. You can't have one discussion in multiple forums.
But, surely,
it is up to Deb.
This thread, from the beginning, wasn't really about the Seth material, but about our personal views about the war in Ukraine, so maybe it needs to be moved elsewhere, if Debs considers so.
The Zeland quote, that I posted, is quite in line with the Seth material, isn't it? What Zeland calls "
pendulum" is what Seth calls "
natural hypnosis".
Also, obviously we all read parts of the Seth material, and we understood it quite differently. There isn't a unique truth, or a true interpretation of the material. Everybody will get from it what fits their level of evolvement. What is true for you now, it isn't true for me now.
Quote from: strangerthings on March 18, 2022, 03:14:16 PMQuote from: inavalan on March 18, 2022, 01:15:20 AMQuote from: strangerthings on March 18, 2022, 12:36:45 AMI hope this is helpful.
It sure is meaty.
Would you mind expounding on what you got from the "meaty" quote you posted? Thanks.
Quote from: inavalan on March 18, 2022, 01:15:20 AMQuote from: strangerthings on March 18, 2022, 12:36:45 AMI hope this is helpful.
It sure is meaty.
Would you mind expounding on what you got from the "meaty" quote you posted? Thanks.
I will post it elsewhere later to do that.
I'm asking, because to me, this quote seemed full of inconsistencies and distortions. I just reviewed it again, and it seemed even more so. It is more Jane's and Rob's perspective on humans and physical-reality than Seth's.
Quote from: inavalan on March 18, 2022, 04:18:53 PMI believe that anybody can skip what they aren't interested in. In my opinion those examples you referred to where pertinent to the subject in discussion. You can't have one discussion in multiple forums.
My intention for this topic was/is to discuss this Mass Event and how the Seth materials explain what's really going one beyond the obvious. It is my attempt to understand why this is happening in this day and age.
I don't have a problem with people bringing in other references in a discussion, such as Zeland, Chomsky (American philosopher among other things), Goddard, Buddha, news articles, blog posts, etc. if it pertains to the topic and has some coherence with the Seth materials. Our threads tend to waver back and forth, they don't follow a beeline, which I think is natural. We always manage to return to the main subject. It would be different if this was a tech support forum, where it's crucial to keep topics as sterile as possible, because others are seeking specific answers to their own tech problems. Unless we want to consider Framework 1 to be Framework 1.0. Sorry, a poor attempt at humor.
My intention with the "Other Teachers" board is that if someone wants to introduce a new teacher/speaker and devote an entire topic to that person, they can do it there. I've moved topics over to that board before, never a big deal for me or the person starting the topic. I always touch base with the initiator first.
Quote from: Mark M on March 18, 2022, 10:17:11 AMThanks to inavalan for pointing out the bracketed s was the reason for the unintended strikethroughs in a prior post of mine.
Yes, thank you
@inavalan. If a post is viewed in Preview (button next to Post at the bottom of the text box), any formatting problems can be seen before clicking "Post." Formatting is made with bracketed Bulletin Board Codes (tags), easily seen in the text box, and problems always involve an unintended format tag, or the loss of the "closing" tag. Below, the bracketed b tag is the opening tag, the /b is closing on. Such as bold BBC would be:
[b]This text will be bolded.[/b]Sorry if I'm too slow to respond, I've been on the road for the past two weeks and don't always have internet or time. I read all posts, don't always have the ability to comment. But I have more time for contemplation, which is a good thing as far as I'm concerned.
'In its natural state, hatred has a powerful rousing characteristic that initiates change and action. Regardless of what you have been told, hatred does not initiate strong violence. As covered earlier in this book, the outbreak of violence is often the result of a built-in sense of powerlessness. Period. (See sessions 662–63 in Chapter Seventeen.)
[... 3 paragraphs ...]
'On their return home the code of behavior changed back to one suited to civilian life, and they clamped down upon themselves again as hard as they could. Many would appear as superconventional. The "luxury" of expressing emotion even in exaggerated form was suddenly denied them, and the sense of powerlessness grew by contrast.
(Pause at 9:59.) 'Give us a moment... This is not to be a chapter devoted to war. However, there are a few points that I do want to make. It is a sense of powerlessness that also causes nations to initiate wars. This has little to do with their "actual" world situation or with the power that others might assign to them, but to an overall sense of powerlessness — even, sometimes, regardless of world dominance.
'In a way I am sorry that this is not the place to discuss the Second World War (1939–45), for it was also the result of a sense of powerlessness which then erupted into a mass blood bath on a grand scale. The same course was followed privately in the cases of such individuals as just mentioned.
[... 3 paragraphs ...]
'In an odd way this made it even more difficult for those who did go into the next two, less extensive wars, for the country was not behind either one. Any sense of powerlessness on the part of individual fighting men was given expression as before, this time in a more local blood bath, but the code itself had become shaky. This release was not as accepted as it had been before, even within the ranks. By the last war (in Vietnam), the country was as much against it as for it, and the men's feelings of powerlessness were reinforced after it was over. This is the reason for the incidents of violence on the part of returning servicemen.'
—Seth, NoPR, Chapter 21: Session 673, June 27, 1973
Nations that have no army
David Smith, March 18, 2022
There are 21 nations that have no army. Most of these countries are small and/or maritime. Many have an
agreement with a former occupying country, e.g., Monaco (300 years, with France); the Marshall Islands,
Federated States of Micronesia, and Palau all rely on the United States. Andorra has a small army but has a
defense agreement with France and Spain.
Some countries underwent deliberate demilitarization: Grenada (1983), Costa Rica (1949), and Panama
(1990). Costa Rica demilitarized in order to prevent military coups. Other countries probably had the same
reason. Getting rid of the military has a significant peace dividend. Costa Rica spent its on health care and its
life expectancy is just over 80 years. The US LE is 77 years and other Central American countries at are about
75 years.
Other nations are: Fiji, Kiribati, Liechtenstein, Nauru, Palau, St, Lucia, St. Vincent and the Grenadines,
Solomon Islands, Tuvalu, Vatican City (The Swiss Guard is the personal security service of the Pope), Iceland
(1949, member of NATO), Mauritius, and Vanuatu.
These countries do have land or sea forces that perform police functions. That is, they are trained as police
and follow police procedures. They are usually well-armed and well-trained at the level of police forces, that
is, small arms, possibly automatic weapons, but no armored personnel carriers or cannons or rockets. Sea and
coast patrols are likely somewhat more heavily armed.
Solomon Islands (example)
"Maintained a paramilitary force until a heavy ethnic conflict, in which Australia, New Zealand and other
Pacific countries intervened to restore law and order. Since then no military has been maintained. However,
there is a relatively large police force, and a Maritime Surveillance Unit for internal security. The Maritime
Surveillance Unit is equipped with small arms, and maintains two Pacific-class patrol boats.... Defence and
policing assistance was the responsibility of the RAMSI [Regional Assistance Mission to the Solomon Islands]
until June 30, 2017."
The Regional Security System (Caribbean nations)
"The Regional Security System (RSS) is an international agreement for the defence and security of the eastern
Caribbean region with future expansion planned with South America. The Regional Security System was
created in 1982 to counter threats to the stability of the region in the late 1970s and early 1980s."
This agreement supports mostly disaster relief and police activities, predominantly drug smuggling.
The current member nations are:
Antigua and Barbuda (since 1982)
Barbados (since 1982)
Dominica (since 1982)
Grenada (since 1985)
Saint Kitts and Nevis (since 1983)
Saint Lucia (since 1982)
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines (since 1982)
Guyana has announced that it will join this year. It has a military of 3,400 which mostly does disaster relief.
Both Canada and the USA support this system.
"Ireland's tradition of Neutrality is borne out of an unwillingness to kill and be killed in Imperialist Wars that have nothing to do with our people and everything to do with the interests of the elites profiting from Arms, Fossil Fuel and Finance Industries. We like Peace not War..."
--Mick Wallace (born 9 November 1955) is an Irish politician and former property developer who has been a Member of the European Parliament (MEP) from Ireland for the South constituency since July 2019.
https://www.counterpunch.org/2022/03/18/roaming-charges-45/
War stocks are surging as the Russia-Ukraine conflict rages on: Lockheed-Martin, Northrop up 20%.
Forbes, March 4 2022
https://www.counterpunch.org/2022/03/18/roaming-charges-45/
https://twitter.com/bogizemlja/status/1501804131496828928
Quote from: inavalan on March 18, 2022, 04:18:53 PMQuote from: strangerthings on March 18, 2022, 03:18:08 PMSeth-Related Discussions Topics about Seth quotes, questions about understanding concepts, Seth or Jane Roberts books. Please, no posts about other teachers. Any posts or topics regarding other teachers/speakers will be split and moved to the Other Speakers/Teachers board.
Lets keep this as intended please. I realize we forget but this area is for us to understand things through using Seth material. Not others. There are other areas for that.
There is zealand, chomsky, some newsy site... completely unrelated to seth teaching us. Please keep this is mind. For me I havent a clue what you are referring to. Please try to not go off the rails here. Thanks.
I believe that anybody can skip what they aren't interested in. In my opinion those examples you referred to where pertinent to the subject in discussion. You can't have one discussion in multiple forums.
But, surely, it is up to Deb.
This thread, from the beginning, wasn't really about the Seth material, but about our personal views about the war in Ukraine, so maybe it needs to be moved elsewhere, if Debs considers so.
The Zeland quote, that I posted, is quite in line with the Seth material, isn't it? What Zeland calls "pendulum" is what Seth calls "natural hypnosis".
Also, obviously we all read parts of the Seth material, and we understood it quite differently. There isn't a unique truth, or a true interpretation of the material. Everybody will get from it what fits their level of evolvement. What is true for you now, it isn't true for me now.
Well, its posted in a Seth only category so........
I guess I was hoping we can bring out more Seth teachings in relation to this particular subject considering where its located. Thats all.
And btw, the TES9 quote I posted is ALL Seth and VERY pertinent. Only the very beginning is Rob and Jane so I will edit it and make that italics so you can differentiate between the 3 of them even though they say good evening Seth.
Yes where others find things useful others wont. Thats a given. And when asking for me to expound, was that merely bait? lol Cmon now
@Mark M Honest questions:
What is your plan for not experiencing a war? What are you doing about it?
From your posts I understand that you are angry with warmongers, and that you hope that people will see the light and will refuse to go to war. Do you think that to be a realistic hope?
Quote from: strangerthings on March 18, 2022, 11:07:12 PMQuote from: inavalan on March 18, 2022, 04:18:53 PMQuote from: strangerthings on March 18, 2022, 03:18:08 PMSeth-Related Discussions Topics about Seth quotes, questions about understanding concepts, Seth or Jane Roberts books. Please, no posts about other teachers. Any posts or topics regarding other teachers/speakers will be split and moved to the Other Speakers/Teachers board.
Lets keep this as intended please. I realize we forget but this area is for us to understand things through using Seth material. Not others. There are other areas for that.
There is zealand, chomsky, some newsy site... completely unrelated to seth teaching us. Please keep this is mind. For me I havent a clue what you are referring to. Please try to not go off the rails here. Thanks.
I believe that anybody can skip what they aren't interested in. In my opinion those examples you referred to where pertinent to the subject in discussion. You can't have one discussion in multiple forums.
But, surely, it is up to Deb.
This thread, from the beginning, wasn't really about the Seth material, but about our personal views about the war in Ukraine, so maybe it needs to be moved elsewhere, if Debs considers so.
The Zeland quote, that I posted, is quite in line with the Seth material, isn't it? What Zeland calls "pendulum" is what Seth calls "natural hypnosis".
Also, obviously we all read parts of the Seth material, and we understood it quite differently. There isn't a unique truth, or a true interpretation of the material. Everybody will get from it what fits their level of evolvement. What is true for you now, it isn't true for me now.
Well, its posted in a Seth only category so........
I guess I was hoping we can bring out more Seth teachings in relation to this particular subject considering where its located. Thats all.
And btw, the TES9 quote I posted is ALL Seth and VERY pertinent. Only the very beginning is Rob and Jane so I will edit it and make that italics so you can differentiate between the 3 of them even though they say good evening Seth.
Yes where others find things useful others wont. Thats a given. And when asking for me to expound, was that merely bait? lol Cmon now
I wasn't baiting you. It isn't my style. Whenever I have anything to say, I just say it.
You probably haven't read my follow up post: I didn't find any "meat" in that long quote. Actually I found it to be unlike Seth, with inconsistencies and distortions, like if Jane and Rob had a bad channeling day due to being distracted by their nuclear war fears.
That's why I was curious what you got from there. What did you find pertinent to the subject?
@Deb I know we go all over but I was hoping for it not to do that here
Its cool.
Ps. I didnt post any Goddard here (for once lol)
Hope you have a very pleasant out of town trip!
@inavalan Its very Seth
I found all of it useful and great to know. He goes into more a little bit in the next session too.
Quote from: strangerthings on March 18, 2022, 11:40:00 PM@inavalan
Its very Seth
I found all of it useful and great to know.
So, you don't want to share, to help me understand too. Why?
Quote from: strangerthings on March 18, 2022, 12:32:57 AMThe horror and the results of mismanagement, and the vulnerability, are the teaching methods that each consciousness has accepted before entering your system. There is no way out but to learn or to ruin the entire
system. In no other field of reality are the terms so drastic.
@strangerthings , thanks for this very relevant quote. What Seth seems to be suggesting is that Putin is only beginning his rampage (Seth's horror), and his next step could be the invasion of Poland. Where is the "mismanagement" in this scenario? It could be the pacifism and cowardice of Western powers.
Quote from: Mark M on March 18, 2022, 10:23:42 PMWar stocks are surging as the Russia-Ukraine conflict rages on: Lockheed-Martin, Northrop up 20%.
Lockheed-Martin would certainly benefit from a third world war:
https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/products.html
Quote from: inavalan on March 18, 2022, 11:42:25 PMQuote from: strangerthings on March 18, 2022, 11:40:00 PM@inavalan
Its very Seth
I found all of it useful and great to know.
So, you don't want to share, to help me understand too. Why?
No thats not it lol
For one it got me thinking about me personally and where I personally fit within the cycles of consciousness. Seth makes it very clear to me that consciousness cannot be forcibly restrained because then we would learn nothing. And he got me thinking that anybody on earth doing whatever it is they're doing they are learning no matter what it is and you cannot mature without learning.
We are in a maturing ground of our experiment. This passage reminds me and reminding us all that there are many different consciousnesses at different levels and some of them are strong enough and organized enough as a consciousness to do all these things in the world that we know can be done differently. More peacefully.
I think we are understanding that right now in many parts of the world they are going to extremes.
And Seth points out that we wouldn't be able to do any of that without this freedom we have.
And when I reflect I also realize that going to an extreme is necessary in our world because you wouldn't have extremes anywhere if we didn't have this freedom. And going to an extreme also means to me I wouldn't have the freedom to amplify or do an opposite I would not have the freedom to do that.
Plus how cool is it that he says that from this system the greatest potentials emerge!
If we did not go through the trials and tribulations of this system perhaps we would not expand through our incarnations in the way that we do here.
"The horror and the results of mismanagement, and the vulnerability, are the teaching methods that each consciousness has accepted before entering your system."
So in other words we all wanted to come here based on that lol
It's like he's saying we purposefully went into a system that is going to expand the extremes for our benefit.
Some say it's hard to appreciate the great things without having the other extreme experienced which is perhaps appreciating joy after going through so many hardships we appreciate the joy in life all the more so we will want to maintain joy rather than hardship. Now that's just an example thrown together.
I think the session keeps things in perspective. Like when he's talking about how the mass increase of some of these consciousnesses are not the ones giving us war. The ones giving us war are the ones that are realizing the potential of their own energy.
Their experience will be to learn how to handle it constructively.
And don't we want them to do that and they're never gonna do that unless they learn.
It's like the toddler that hasn't learned to share and bites the kid next to him because the kid wants his toy it's the same thing lol at least to me it is I mean I see no difference except age and "toy".
But if the toddler did not bite the kid next to him even though he really really wanted to because that was his go-to expression, then the kid would just be repressing his expression and possibly very well could internalize it. So we want people to be who they really are get it out of your system and learn how to be joyful eventually.
Of course there is a guardian there to redirect the kid and help him or her understand there is a better way to handle aggression. It would be up to that kid to understand that and learn that.
Can we learn that our natural state is a state of safety and grace and love unless we experienced the opposite of all of that?
And isn't it good to know that larger masses of individuals than ever before in this cycle realize that killing is wrong?
Now this brings me back to the very beginning when I started posting this reply. Reflecting on where I fit in this system I'm fairly sure that I have been through the war time and killing and all that kind of stuff in order to arrive at where I am today.
Well I know I have because I know one of my reincarnated lives I was an assassin and I got shot and I actually know what it's like to be shot because that experience actually had me in a pool of sweat feeling pain excruciating pain as though I was shot and it was a good reminder that I don't want to be an assassin or murderer lol
That experience shook me it shook the foundations of me. It was so real for me that when I woke up it felt very real and I actually thought I was shot and I was frantically feeling my front area for blood and I was panting and heaving and crying it was quite an experience.
And where I ended that session it says "But remember you must consider the race and its inhabitants in the entire context of existence if you are to be realistic."
And to me that is saying if you want to be realistic about the events going on, the mass events and other people and how to consider them then understanding this session is very important.
... when you were in high school did you get angry at the elementary kids ?
Or.. as an adult do you get angry at babies?
That's what that last line says to me it speaks volumes.
Quote from: strangerthings on March 19, 2022, 12:27:58 AMWell I know I have because I know one of my reincarnated lives I was an assassin and I got shot and I actually know what it's like to be shot because that experience actually had me in a pool of sweat feeling pain excruciating pain as though I was shot and it was a good reminder that I don't want to be an assassin or murderer lol
That experience shook me it shook the foundations of me. It was so real for me that when I woke up it felt very real and I actually thought I was shot and I was frantically feeling my front area for blood and I was panting and heaving and crying it was quite an experience.
St, thanks for sharing your experience. I am willing to admit that WWII is my favourite topic for leisure reading (i.e. when I want to relax).
@Sena I watch Frazier or Fringe lol
Russia is using the Roman letter "Z" as a symbol of support for their army during their "special military operation" in Ukraine. Supposedly most Russians have no idea what the symbol represents, probably also what's really going on in Ukraine. BTW the Z letter symbol does not appear in the Russian alphabet. The Russian Z sound letter looks like a 3. The Z on Russian tanks and now elsewhere represents the word za (за) which in Russian is "for" or "behind." I don't know why they chose this symbol. Many people have commented that the Z looks like half of the German swastika, which is also ironic in that Putin insists his purpose for attacking Ukraine is
eradicating Nazis from Russia. You can't make this stuff up.
Ironically one of the photos in this article shows a button with the Z and за мир (za mir = for peace). роскосмос (roskosmos) is the Russian cosmonauts program.
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/03/17/in-photos-pro-military-z-symbol-permeates-russian-society-a76956
BTW
@inavalan who is your question in post #99 above directed to?
inavalan wrote:
Honest questions:
What is your plan for not experiencing a war? What are you doing about it?
From your posts I understand that you are angry with warmongers, and that you hope that people will see the light and will refuse to go to war. Do you think that to be a realistic hope?
----=----
Who is this addressed to?
If it is me, I daily affirm and before sleep:
Every day in every way, I am getting better and better.
I will only react to constructive suggestions.
I seek to create an optimum probability/best possible outcome.
I think it's in NoPR, Seth said some people surrounded by war are actually able to be virtually unaffected by it.
"angry with warmongers"
Not really angry, more like disappointed, but the "meaty" (I agree) session gives pointers on how to regard such things as war.
I would be curious for you to point out what you see as its contradictions. I guess you wrote: "...full of inconsistencies and distortions..."
Seth did say there would be at times apparent contradictions in what he has to say.
For instance, some Sethniks dismiss the violations concept thinking YCYOR trumps that.
I am willing to accept that "contradiction."
"realistic hope"
"Once again, then, ideas of the most optimistic nature are the
biologically pertinent ones."
--Seth, Session 06\27/84 for The Way Toward Health
Sad anniversary:
Nineteen Years Ago Today (Mar 19) the Bush Administration Invaded Iraq.
We are probably getting more media images of Russia's Ukraine atrocities than we did with the U.S.'s "Shock and Awe," etc. of Iraq.
Naked war crimes in both cases.
Quote from: Deb on March 19, 2022, 08:53:11 AM...
BTW @inavalan who is your question in post #99 above directed to?
Sorry, at
@Mark M I probably clicked "reply" instead of "quote".
Quote from: strangerthings on March 19, 2022, 12:27:58 AMQuote from: inavalan on March 18, 2022, 11:42:25 PMQuote from: strangerthings on March 18, 2022, 11:40:00 PM@inavalan
Its very Seth
I found all of it useful and great to know.
So, you don't want to share, to help me understand too. Why?
No thats not it lol
For one it got me thinking about me personally and where I personally fit within the cycles of consciousness. ...
Thank you for making the effort. Now I understand better why you posted that quote. That didn't change my impression about the quote.
I've been traveling across country and have reached my destination. Along the way, I've visited many small town centers, and most of the shops have sunflowers painted on their windows. Sunflowers are a symbol of support for peace in Ukraine.
On a long walk this morning I came across several signs on lawns that say "United Against Hate," which made me smile, because it reminded me of the much repeated Seth quote:
"Hatred of war will not bring peace — another example. Only love of peace will bring about those conditions."
—NoPR Part One: Chapter 2: Session 615, September 18, 1972
Is it better to be united against something unwanted, or unite over a wanted outcome? We humans always seem to be bass-akwards in our problem solving.
And then there's this:
"Thoughts of peace, particularly in the middle of chaos, take great energy. People who can ignore the physical evidence of wars and purposely think thoughts of peace will triumph — but in your terminology the word "meek" has come to mean spineless, inadequate, lacking energy. In Christ's time, the phrase about the meek inheriting the earth implied the energetic use of affirmation, of love and peace."
—NoPR Part Two: Chapter 21: Session 674, July 2, 1973
Do you (anyone reading this) suppose that our collective attention to the war in Ukraine is adding fuel to the fire? Once again, where do we draw the line? Do we watch what's currently happening with the war, or do we ditch the news and switch our focus to a positive outcome?
Quote from: Mark M on March 19, 2022, 10:27:01 AMinavalan wrote:
Honest questions:
What is your plan for not experiencing a war? What are you doing about it?
From your posts I understand that you are angry with warmongers, and that you hope that people will see the light and will refuse to go to war. Do you think that to be a realistic hope?
----=----
Who is this addressed to?
If it is me, I daily affirm and before sleep:
Every day in every way, I am getting better and better.
I will only react to constructive suggestions.
I seek to create an optimum probability/best possible outcome.
I think it's in NoPR, Seth said some people surrounded by war are actually able to be virtually unaffected by it.
"angry with warmongers"
Not really angry, more like disappointed, but the "meaty" (I agree) session gives pointers on how to regard such things as war.
I would be curious for you to point out what you see as its contradictions. I guess you wrote: "...full of inconsistencies and distortions..."
Seth did say there would be at times apparent contradictions in what he has to say.
For instance, some Sethniks dismiss the violations concept thinking YCYOR trumps that.
I am willing to accept that "contradiction."
"realistic hope"
"Once again, then, ideas of the most optimistic nature are the
biologically pertinent ones."
--Seth, Session 06\27/84 for The Way Toward Health
Thank you for your reply.
I disagree with that
quote from your post. I believe to be Jane's or Rob's distortion. It gives more weight to the physical and the biological than it is my interpretation of Seth's message.
Not sure what "violations" are you referring to. Regarding
YCYOR, my understanding is that each one of us (as personalities) experiences through their outer-self only the reality created by their own subconscious (which sometimes Jane channels as inner-self; inner- and outer-self are different focuses, not distinct selves). I won't go further into details now.
One of the
inconsistencies of the "meaty" quote, is on these same lines of overemphasizing the current turn of events (contemporaneous to Jane and Rob), vis-a-vis Seth's contention about
probable realities. He repeatedly mentioned that based on people's choices other totally different realities develop and are as "real" as one we experience (e.g. Hitler won the war, or a ww2 turned nuclear and wiped out humanity). There is also Seth's concept about the spacious-present from which
both the future and the past are created / changed. Several of his references in the "meaty" quote are inconsistent with those concepts I mentioned.
I believe that that session's distortions were caused by the strong
emotional state of Jane and Rob when they started the session. Channeling is always strongly influenced by the channel's (Jane) emotional state, as well as by the audience's (Rob and guests) emotional state, because of the telepathic connection.
Regarding "everyday in every way ...":
affirmations, and other such techniques are fruitful only inasmuch they are used correctly. To see if you're using it effectively, add a simple instruction like "and now raise my right hand to touch my nose", or such. If that doesn't happen, then most likely the "everyday ..." affirmation doesn't happen either.
In order for such techniques to work, one has to be in the
proper state of consciousness.
Now ... I'd also say that I feel that so far it seems I can't establish a good
exchange of ideas on this forum with others on Seth, on what's happening in the world, and such, because I can't establish a communication line, as my
beliefs differ too much from others'. Surely, it is possible that my beliefs are the more distorted ones, but that isn't something that can be argued intellectually, so everyone has to rely only on their own inner-source of knowledge and guidance (their
Seth-within).
Quote from: Deb on March 19, 2022, 08:20:47 PMI've been traveling across country and have reached my destination. Along the way, I've visited many small town centers, and most of the shops have sunflowers painted on their windows. Sunflowers are a symbol of support for peace in Ukraine.
On a long walk this morning I came across several signs on lawns that say "United Against Hate," which made me smile, because it reminded me of the much repeated Seth quote:
"Hatred of war will not bring peace — another example. Only love of peace will bring about those conditions."
—NoPR Part One: Chapter 2: Session 615, September 18, 1972
Is it better to be united against something unwanted, or unite over a wanted outcome? We humans always seem to be bass-akwards in our problem solving.
And then there's this:
"Thoughts of peace, particularly in the middle of chaos, take great energy. People who can ignore the physical evidence of wars and purposely think thoughts of peace will triumph — but in your terminology the word "meek" has come to mean spineless, inadequate, lacking energy. In Christ's time, the phrase about the meek inheriting the earth implied the energetic use of affirmation, of love and peace."
—NoPR Part Two: Chapter 21: Session 674, July 2, 1973
Do you (anyone reading this) suppose that our collective attention to the war in Ukraine is adding fuel to the fire? Once again, where do we draw the line? Do we watch what's currently happening with the war, or do we ditch the news and switch our focus to a positive outcome?
This is where I differ from others ... The reality that I experience, isn't dependent on what others do or think. Each one of us will move from here on a life-line that matches their own beliefs and expectations. All probabilities are fulfilled: in some life-lines Russians will win, in others Ukraine, in others a nuclear holocaust will happen, and all the other possibilities. Each one of us will follow the probability that matches their beliefs and expectations, their focus. Groups of us with similar beliefs and expectations will go along together, but not all of us, and none of us will submit to another's choice.
This is an event that has a symbolism for each one of us, it is a lesson or a test we go through, at our individual level of evolvement. It doesn't have the same interpretation for all of us.
I went through such a violent experience, and I can tell you that while being there you don't know what is happening. There is a lot of intentional and unintentional misinformation and misperception. And you don't know for sure what was all about even when it is all over. Then, the history is written by the winner, which isn't usually the obvious one.
Those who hate, no matter how justified it may seem, will experience in their individual lives more situations that will cause them to feel hate. With anger the same. With every feeling the same, including sorry, compassion, regret, fear (negative emotions are always more intense because they ultimately originate in the survival instinct). This isn't about right vs. wrong, good, vs. evil, who started it, or such. And, don't forget about the spacious-present that causes both the future and the past to be continuously re-created (actually different possible life-lines followed or recalled)! We're Sethians-wannabees, aren't we?
I think that most of us are experiencing "doublethink", and aren't aware of that. For example: holding simultaneously beliefs compatible with the Seth material, and beliefs that aren't compatible. Surely, "compatibility" is in the eyes of the beholder. We don't know what we don't know.
(https://cdn.substack.com/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fbucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3165b0ba-28c8-4b28-af56-cf5fbb1e41d0_1340x318.png)
Thanks for your reply, inavalan.
Violations per this in NoPR:
"An outright lie may or may not be a violation. A sex act may or may not be a violation. A scientific expedition may or may not be a violation. Not going to church on Sunday is not a violation. Having normal aggressive thoughts is not a violation. Doing violence to your body, or another's, is a violation. Doing violence to the spirit of another is a violation — but again, because you are conscious beings the interpretations are yours. Swearing is not a violation. If you believe that it is then in your mind it becomes one.
(12:01.) "Killing another human being is a violation. Killing while protecting your own body from death at the hands of another through immediate contact is a violation. Whether or not any justification seems apparent, the violation exists."
—Seth, NoPR, Chapter 8: Session 634, January 22, 1973
Quote from: Mark M on March 19, 2022, 10:28:58 PMThanks for your reply, inavalan.
Violations per this in NoPR:
"An outright lie may or may not be a violation. A sex act may or may not be a violation. A scientific expedition may or may not be a violation. Not going to church on Sunday is not a violation. Having normal aggressive thoughts is not a violation. Doing violence to your body, or another's, is a violation. Doing violence to the spirit of another is a violation — but again, because you are conscious beings the interpretations are yours. Swearing is not a violation. If you believe that it is then in your mind it becomes one.
(12:01.) "Killing another human being is a violation. Killing while protecting your own body from death at the hands of another through immediate contact is a violation. Whether or not any justification seems apparent, the violation exists."
—Seth, NoPR, Chapter 8: Session 634, January 22, 1973
Thanks. I reviewed briefly that section. I understand that "violation" is related to the "natural guilt" which acts like a balancing force, and which is contrasted with "artificial guilt" which is detrimental but "still highly creative in its way".
- Artificial guilt is still highly creative in its way, an offshoot made in man's image as his conscious mind began to consider and play upon the natural innocent guilt that originally implied no punishment.
"Thou shell not violate" ... I couldn't find (quickly) who makes the judgement, what is the correction, and who executes it.
For example in that paragraph Seth/Jane talks about overpopulation being a violation, and that giving birth during overpopulation times is a violation.
There is also some related talk about "grace", which makes me wonder ...
I think these are some religious overtones, and I think that they need to be taken (as all the Seth material in fact) as a layered symbolism, from which everybody should interpret according to their individual evolvement needs.
As in the above quote: "
that originally implied no punishment" ...
The word "originally" makes no sense. It implies that "in distant past times" (this is inconsistent with Seth's simultaneous time concept) something was done at humanity level, that later was changed. By who? God?
To me that is a distortion, as the idea embraced by some people that all-that-is is some kind of god, with attributes similar to what people call god. There is no more god, than I am the god of the cell of my body, and I definitely don't think at that level, and don't get directly involved.
This all-that-is assimilation with a god is contradicted by the sections about Seth 2, who is an entity at much superior level of evolvement, who was involved in the dreaming of the physical-reality and who is so far removed that he doesn't understand it (anymore), and who is definitely not involved into the physical-reality dealings, and who is not all-that-is.
I think that "violation" is a misnomer. I think that each one of us (as personality) goes through lessons and tests, that we learn or not, that we pass or not, and when we fail we keep facing them again and again, usually in a different guise.
I think that each one of us is guided by an inner-guide, who is a non-reincarnational entity (like Seth), who is interested only in our individual evolvement as personality, and not in our physical life (it is like a sub-teacher that supervises you in school).
Guiding help with our physical choices can be obtained only intuitively, by accessing our inner-senses, which at our level as physical-beings are quite rudimentary, and not from our inner-guide.
inavalan wrote:
'As in the above quote: "that originally implied no punishment" ...
'The word "originally" makes no sense. It implies that "in distant past times" (this is inconsistent with Seth's simultaneous time concept) something was done at humanity level, that later was changed. By who? God?'
I think you are misreading what is meant.
First off, punishment was never intended.
For instance:
"In a simultaneous time, punishment makes no sense. The punishment as an event, and the event for which you were being punished, exist at once; and since there is no past, present and future, you could just as well say that the punishment came first."
—NoPR Part One: Chapter 9: Session 636, January 29, 1973
Even mere humans are learning that restorative justice is more effective than punitive justice.
I think Seth means "originally" as in what "God" intended/still intends.
Humans came up with artificial guilt and its complications.
As for contradictions, in my view, "overrationalization" does not help matters.
"This is difficult to explain, for these concepts themselves exist beyond verbalization. Some seeming (underlined) contradictions are bound to occur."
—Seth, NotP Chapter 6: Session 774, May 3, 1976
A puzzle when rationality is applied:
Jane and Rob were counterparts.
Jane and Sue Watkins were counterparts.
Rob and Sue were not counterparts.
Quote from: Mark M on March 20, 2022, 10:53:25 AMinavalan wrote:
'As in the above quote: "that originally implied no punishment" ...
'The word "originally" makes no sense. It implies that "in distant past times" (this is inconsistent with Seth's simultaneous time concept) something was done at humanity level, that later was changed. By who? God?'
I think you are misreading what is meant.
First off, punishment was never intended.
For instance:
"In a simultaneous time, punishment makes no sense. The punishment as an event, and the event for which you were being punished, exist at once; and since there is no past, present and future, you could just as well say that the punishment came first."
—NoPR Part One: Chapter 9: Session 636, January 29, 1973
Even mere humans are learning that restorative justice is more effective than punitive justice.
I think Seth means "originally" as in what "God" intended/still intends.
Humans came up with artificial guilt and its complications.
As for contradictions, in my view, "overrationalization" does not help matters.
"This is difficult to explain, for these concepts themselves exist beyond verbalization. Some seeming (underlined) contradictions are bound to occur."
—Seth, NotP Chapter 6: Session 774, May 3, 1976
You misunderstood my point: "originally" implies that a change happened, or in that case a change was made by somebody; that is an inconsistency with basic concepts of the Seth material, in my view.
I was also saying that punishment is likely a human interpretation. I didn't advocate for punishment, as you seem to have understood.
I repeatedly said that there can be no argument about how one interprets the Seth material because it is multi-layered symbolism, and everybody can understand only from his level of evolvement (not making any hierarchy here). Everybody
should intuitively interpret the material by themselves, and not rely on others' interpretation, not even Jane's.
I disagree with your quote that it can't be explained, as it is "beyond verbalization". This is about intuitive interpretation, not about rationalizations. It is about the meaning behind the words, behind the obvious. So misunderstood my point there too.
It is normal for people to sometimes misinterpret what you said, but it is frustrating. It is even more frustrating when people use a "corrective" tone, because they're convinced they're right and you are wrong.
EDIT: Surely, because you might believe that what Seth said has one true meaning (even if you can't verbalize it, as it seems to be your, and Jane's opinion), you might interpret my statements as attempts to correct you, but I
assure you that that isn't my intention. The nuance is in that I believe you can't correct somebody else's interpretation, while it seems that you believe that to be possible.
Quote from: Mark M on March 20, 2022, 11:00:26 AMA puzzle when rationality is applied:
Jane and Rob were counterparts.
Jane and Sue Watkins were counterparts.
Rob and Sue were not counterparts.
Maybe this works like with cousins: counterparts once removed ...
Or maybe it doesn't matter, because Jane, Sue and Rob are personalities, with their limited scope, single incarnations.
When you die, your primary focus moves away from the personality that was your primary focus. There are many good analogies, but maybe the analogy between your incarnations and you in each day of your life, is a clearer one: none of those "you" disappeared, but you aren't them either, although in some respect you are.
inavalan wrote:
"I didn't advocate for punishment, as you seem to have understood."
I didn't at all intend to convey such.
"beyond verbalization"
I can accept that; ineffable's the word.
Quote from: Mark M on March 20, 2022, 09:14:12 PMinavalan wrote:
"I didn't advocate for punishment, as you seem to have understood."
I didn't at all intend to convey such.
"beyond verbalization"
I can accept that; ineffable's the word.
See my last reply to you on the other thread.
Two leaked stories from the Pentagon have exposed the lies of mainstream media about Russia in Ukraine.
Another example of mainstream media not being your friend.
https://consortiumnews.com/2022/03/23/pentagon-drops-truth-bombs-to-stave-off-war-with-russia/
Two polls that show that
we create our reality,
that we're poor at it,
which explains why are still here ...
(https://www.ekospolitics.com/wp-content/uploads/20220318slide05-1024x768.png)
(https://cdn.substack.com/image/fetch/w_1272,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fbucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3d8a2208-f53c-4e89-bf38-8db82dbaf529_1190x872.png)
Quote from: Mark M on March 23, 2022, 10:19:40 PMTwo leaked stories from the Pentagon have exposed the lies of mainstream media about Russia in Ukraine.
Another example of mainstream media not being your friend.
https://consortiumnews.com/2022/03/23/pentagon-drops-truth-bombs-to-stave-off-war-with-russia/
That seems a decent news site, at least from their "about" section:
- From the Late Founder and Editor Robert Parry: When we founded Consortiumnews.com in 1995 – as the first investigative news magazine based on the Internet – there was already a crisis building in the U.S. news media. The mainstream media was falling into a pattern of groupthink on issue after issue, often ignoring important factual information because it didn't fit with what all the Important People knew to be true.
- Journalist Robert Parry
- Indeed, that was the original reason that I turned to what was then a new media platform to create a home for well-reported stories and to challenge the many misguided conventional wisdoms.
- As one of the reporters who helped expose the Iran-Contra scandal for The Associated Press in the mid-1980s, I was distressed by the silliness and propaganda that had come to pervade American journalism. I feared, too, that the decline of the U.S. press foreshadowed disasters that would come when journalists failed to alert the public about impending dangers.
- Also by 1995, documents were emerging that put the history of the 1980s in a new and more troubling light. Yet, there were fewer and fewer media outlets interested in that history. The memories of Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush were enveloped in warm-and-fuzzy myths that represented another kind of danger: false history that could lead to mistaken political judgments in the future.
- Some of our early articles reexamined important chapters of the 1980s (such as the "October Surprise" controversy from Election 1980 and evidence of Nicaraguan contra-cocaine trafficking).
- Though we have struggled with funding – surviving for more than two decades through a combination of our own frugality and the generosity of our readers – we have managed to produce groundbreaking journalism on many of the most significant issues of the day, including national security, foreign policy, politics and the environment.
- We also looked at the underlying problems of modern democracy, particularly the insidious manipulation of citizens by government propaganda and the accomplice role played by mainstream media. Rather than encouraging diversity in analyses especially on topics of war and peace, today's mainstream media takes a perverse pride in excluding responsible, alternative views.
- It's as if The New York Times, The Washington Post, CNN and the others have learned nothing from the disaster of the Iraq War when they pushed the groupthink about WMD and betrayed their responsibilities to the American people and the people of the world. Despite all the death, destruction and destabilization caused by the Iraq invasion, there was almost no accountability in the U.S. press corps, with many of the worst offenders still holding down prominent jobs and still engaging in the same terrible journalism.
- When I was a young reporter, I was taught that there were almost always two sides to a story and often more. I was expected to seek out those alternative views, not dismiss them or pretend they didn't exist. I also realized that finding the truth often required digging beneath the surface and not just picking up the convenient explanation sitting out in the open.
- But the major Western news outlets began to see journalism differently. It became their strange duty to shut down questioning of the Official Story, even when the Official Story had major holes and made little sense, even when the evidence went in a different direction and serious analysts were disputing the groupthink.
- Looking back over the past two decades, I wish I could say that the media trend that we detected in the mid-1990s had been reversed. But, if anything, it's grown worse. The major Western news outlets now conflate the discrete difficulties from made-up "fake news" and baseless "conspiracy theories" with responsible dissenting analyses. All get thrown into the same pot and subjected to disdain and ridicule.
- We have seen travesties, such as legendary investigative journalist Seymour Hersh having to take his important story debunking the Obama administration's claims about the Syria-Sarin case of 2013 to the London Review of Books because his normal outlets in the United States wouldn't run his exposé.
- Now, even as the fate of the world becomes more tenuous amid a resumption of Cold War tensions between the West and Russia, we are seeing the Western media engaging in a self-inflicted blindness that has left the West's citizens blind as well. This dilemma – this crisis in democracy – has made the role of Consortiumnews even more essential today than it may have been in 1995.
- Robert Parry, Editor[/quote]
Quote from: Sena on March 23, 2022, 10:58:55 PM[video]
That's propaganda.
How stupid can people be to believe that anybody could win a nuclear war? Like with the pandemic, vaccines, mandates, ... How can people still believe politicians and main stream media?
We could not wake up any morning now. A nuclear war wouldn't last a day. Even zones not directly hit (around the whole globe) wouldn't be livable for years. Probably for those people who'd still survive the first hours it would be more horrific than immediately dying.
A hypersonic missiles take a few minutes to reach any point on the globe.
Moscow to New York 4680 miles (7,531 km)
Russia's Kinzhal missile travels at 7,672 mph (for reference: a US Tomahawk's maximum speed is 550 mph). China successfully tested hypersonic missiles too. No Western power has anything comparable yet, and the most optimistic target to have something is 2030 (!).
Propaganda is a powerful tool, as beliefs and expectations are too, but in physical, at our level of evolvement and the current level of mass fear, anger, hate, the nuclear weapons have no match.
This was published on Feb 23, 2022:
President Zelensky Suggests Ukraine May Pursue Nuclear Weapons To Counter Russia, Putin Responds
By Ryan Saavedra
Feb 23, 2022
https://www.dailywire.com/news/president-zelensky-suggests-ukraine-may-pursue-nuclear-weapons-to-counter-russia-putin-responds
Here there is the full speech:
Speech by the President of Ukraine at the 58th Munich Security Conference
19 February 2022
https://www.president.gov.ua/en/news/vistup-prezidenta-ukrayini-na-58-j-myunhenskij-konferenciyi-72997
On Feb 24, 2022 Russia entered Ukraine.
Petition urging negotiation:
https://www.codepink.org/nonoflyzone
A media watchdog group:
https://fair.org/
According to my understanding of the Seth material, events we experience are a method of expression, analogously to the words in a language. So, we should observe them, and interpret them intuitively.
Taking the current Ukraine situation (which isn't as described in this thread's title), we could interpret it from different perspectives, not judge it intellectually or emotionally, but to understand the symbolism embedded in it, the lesson appropriate for each of us individually; our individual lessons are different, tailored to our individual needs to learn.
When I interpret what's happening to another, it is a lesson for me. When I interpret what's happening to me, it is a test for me, and a grading. In both cases, a guidance ensues: what should I do.
One of the most obvious events, as I see it, is the predicament of the Ukrainian people. From a Sethian point of view, their thoughts and emotions materialized in this, and there, there are lessons to intuitively identify for me, and guidance to fo!low. For others, including those people, there are other lessons and tests, different than for me.
Surely, the Ukrainian people is made of individuals, and each one has brought it on themselves in some specific way. The perception that this happens because of an external will, or by chance, isn't Sethian.
This is an interesting read from "The Washington Post", which nobody can accuse for not being a loyal tool ...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/03/16/ukraine-zelensky-information-war/
National Security
Outmatched in military might, Ukraine has excelled in the information war by Missy Ryan, Ellen Nakashima, Michael Birnbaum and David L. Stern
March 16, 2022
- ... "They are really excellent in stratcom — media, info ops, and also psy-ops," a senior NATO official said. "I hope Western countries take their lead from them."
Western officials say that while they cannot independently verify much of the information that Kyiv puts out about the evolving battlefield situation, including casualty figures for both sides, it nonetheless represents highly effective stratcom.
One State Department official said that Ukraine's approach amounted to "basic wartime communication." ...
To me, the
lesson is that this "event" experienced by Ukrainians is about hate,
no matter how justified may seem, bringing more hate, eventually degenerating into fear, and into fear of survival (there are Seth quotes tying those together).
The
guidance is: don't do it! Watch your emotions: don't hate!
It is easy to respond emotionally and yield to hate and anger toward those that media points to as being the bad guys, and to be fearful of what might happen to the world, to you and to your family (inflation, collapse of the economy and social systems, war, nuclear war, death). Don't submit to those who push you on that path! They don't know what they're doing.
You, as a Sethian, (should) know better.
It is likely that if this hateful rhetoric, with its appeal to hateful emotions, doesn't tone down, the Western world especially (including their populations) are headed toward a lot of suffering, situations that will cause them more hate and anger, that will end up in fear for life.
I agree. This is our ultimate challenge.
"Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering." - Yoda
Destroy fear within yourself. Fear has no place in realms of higher consciousness, both physical and non. The more you fear the worse the world gets. If you want to stop the war turn off your TV and just help those you meet through your day. Bring up the vibration of the planet. Then war can't take place.
Quote from: Bora137 on March 26, 2022, 03:18:22 AMIf you want to stop the war turn off your TV...
Bora, I agree with most of your post except for the part that I have quoted, at least for myself. I have no desire to completely shut off the news from Ukraine. I choose to focus on the best of humanity coming from that area - the generosity of the Polish people and others in dealing with the refugees, the medical personnel who choose to stay behind to work in hospitals to care for the ill and wounded, the Ukrainians who have shown mercy to captured Russian soldiers, such those who allowed a sobbing soldier to call his relatives in Russia on a cell phone as he sipped tea, Ukrainian citizens nonviolently standing in the way of the movement of Russian tanks, the brave Russian woman who held up the sign during a TV broadcast denouncing her network's propaganda, and the thousands of other Russians who have risked their freedom to publicly protest the war.
I also have been watching as much of the world (at least those countries that always get involved) tries to support Ukraine and show their displeasure of Russia's actions with what I consider peaceful actions—such as sanctions rather than joining in the fighting. There have been, from what I can tell, a LOT of money donated for food and supplies to help the Ukrainian civilians. Unfortunately some of the sanctions may harm the Russian citizens rather than the actual people who are directing this whole thing. I say "may" because there are some reports such as Russians do not have access to their money in banks, the stores are empty, etc. And yet I've seen other reports saying this is not true and life in Russia goes on as normal. I have a friend in St Pete Russia who has a very different take from what we are hearing about what's going on. He is not a fan of Putin, but he says there is more involved than what we are told. I will ask him where he gets his information.
It seems Oliver Stone produced a documentary in 2016, Ukraine on Fire. It's a history of Ukraine being used as "a pathway for Western powers as they attempt to conquer the East" and how the people have dealt with it. From IMDB: "For centuries, it has been at the center of a tug-of-war between powers seeking to control its rich lands and access to the Black Sea." I have not seen the documentary yet.
I'm attaching a PDF of Dr. Joseph Mercola's analysis of the documentary—there were a few surprises for me, such as historical US involvement and yes, Ukrainian Nazis. Dr. Mercola is a controversial medical doctor. He's into natural health products, so I've known about him for quite some time. Most of the time he makes sense to me. I don't always agree with what he says, but I thought this would be safe enough to share here as food for thought. I have to say that I'm always skeptical about "news," "truth" and "stories," but I am willing to at least ponder things that go against my beliefs. And with personal and probable realities, I also have to consider that there is not one solid truth other than "you make your own reality."
I've recently become been interested in Ukrainian and Russian history as far as invasions, and I found this brief video from the Hindustan Times, a brief history of Putin-led invasions since the fall of the Soviet Union. Just a day before the Mercola article came out. What a coincidence, lol.
Ukraine has a long history of being invaded by other countries. Russia has a long history of invading other countries. My grandparents on both sides came to America in the 1890s from Russo-Poland and Russo-Austria -- countries occupied by Russia at the time. These wars and landgrabs are old conflicts/patterns that are still being acted out.
It feels to me like Seth's explanation of diseases... you may find a medication or doctor that "cures" your illness, but if the (psychic and spiritual) root of the conflict is not dealt with, something else will crop up in its place. History is repeating itself and the world needs to watch and learn. How many wars will it take?
https://youtu.be/TPaTfNrMZic
For comparison, US' activity in the same field (see attached)
FMb888NXMDQCze8.jpg
FMflPqoacAMqeqw.jpg
FMSWNEFacAIrpoJ.jpg
And, as we're at: great accomplishments of our times ...
medical-science.jpg
Quote from: inavalan on March 26, 2022, 08:45:21 PMAnd, as we're at: great accomplishments of our times ...
There was a time when doctors pushed cigarette smoking. Woody Allen's
Sleeper was spot on.
https://youtu.be/D2fYguIX17Q
BTW I misjudged Putin, he's really a sweet and charming guy. ;) I also heard Zelenskyy is negotiating speaking at the Oscars. This all has such a surreal feel to it ala
The Truman Show. War in Ukraine? Nonsense. Ha, ha, we made you look.
https://youtu.be/ekeq4szDmJo
Quote from: Deb on March 27, 2022, 07:56:00 AM...
Woody was less intuitive than Orwell, but still ...
- 2:49 Resistance to mind reprogramming will be
2:52 exterminated for the good of the state
2:53 What kind of government you guys got
2:56 here this is worse than California
https://youtu.be/D2fYguIX17Q?t=169
"You have heard terms like "The Brotherhood of Man," or, as Ruburt might say, "The Brother-Womanhood of Women" (humorously). But at any given time, in your terms — at any given time — the population of the earth is made up of counterparts ... and so when you kill an enemy, you are killing a version of yourself ... For as you are members of a physical species, you are also members of a psychic kind of counterpart reality; and this membership straddles races or countries, or states or politics."
—UR2 Appendix 22: (For Session 724)
Quote from: strangerthings on March 27, 2022, 03:41:29 PM"You have heard terms like "The Brotherhood of Man," or, as Ruburt might say, "The Brother-Womanhood of Women" (humorously). But at any given time, in your terms — at any given time — the population of the earth is made up of counterparts ... and so when you kill an enemy, you are killing a version of yourself ... For as you are members of a physical species, you are also members of a psychic kind of counterpart reality; and this membership straddles races or countries, or states or politics."
—UR2 Appendix 22: (For Session 724)
I don't understand clearly the concept of "counterparts".
In some places Seth calls "counterpart" the inner-self, or an electrical body, or existences in other systems.
It is difficult for me to interpret passages like
- "in your terms — at any given time — the population of the earth is made up of counterparts "
- "as you are members of a physical species, you are also members of a psychic kind of counterpart reality"
My understanding is that "physically" each one of us operates 100% in a physical-reality created by their own subconscious. These physical-realities are disjunctive. But from here to say that
- "when you kill an enemy, you are killing a version of yourself"
is a stretch. Besides, you can't "kill" anybody, as the "dying" of an outer-self can be decided only by that personality for itself (as I understand Seth).
@Deb In your post you quoted
"Thoughts of peace, particularly in the middle of chaos, take great energy. People who can ignore the physical evidence of wars and purposely think thoughts of peace will triumph — but in your terminology the word "meek" has come to mean spineless, inadequate, lacking energy. In Christ's time, the phrase about the meek inheriting the earth implied the energetic use of affirmation, of love and peace."
—NoPR Part Two: Chapter 21: Session 674, July 2, 1973
This right here !
This right here !
This is what I cling to, to help me get through.
It isnt always easy but so far for me its like a new muscle getting a workout.
Its part of my new blocks that block my view so-to-speak
"Now this first island is very clever indeed, and so it sends its spirit wandering to the closest counterpart, and says: "You are myself, but without sand or palm trees.""
—UR2 Section 5: Session 726 December 16, 1974
Your world is yourself pushed out. (Neville)
"Nothing exists outside the psyche, however, that does not exist within it, and there is no unknown world that does not have its psychological or psychic counterpart."
—UR2 Appendix 21: (For Session 721)
Jane's trance had been deep on a very humid night. She now told me that while delivering the World War II data for the book, she had been quite aware of another, unspoken, channel from Seth.
That one had been concerned exclusively with the Second World War, Jane said with some surprise, and had contained amazingly complete information on the war's origins and the individual, racial, and reincarnational aspects of it as experienced by the peoples of various nations, whether or not said nations had been directly involved in it. The information had even considered the consequences flowing from the intensified use of technology by the societies of the world after the war. "All of that was coming from that way," Jane pointed to her lower left. She spent perhaps ten minutes describing some of the categories inherent in the material and repeatedly said that she wished we had a record of it. At the same time, although the data was available, we didn't want to lay this book aside to get it.
--NoPR (Sess. 673? I grabbed it off someone's FB post)
inavalan's post of the US warmaking stats are unfortunately too little known amongst US/Americans.
When I "talk like that," some think I must "hate America."
Sorry to such folks, but those stats are the truth and the corporate/mainstream media lies by omission in this way.
Individuals and other nations can be outraged at Russia's invasion of Ukraine, but the US government cannot as it lives in a glass house.
I submit that Hitler would envy US military power and what the US gets away with.
With something like 800 US military bases in a majority of the world's nations, that is empire.
For how many nations have bases in the US?
A whistleblower is in prison for inconveniently revealing that something like 90% of drone strikes hit innocents.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Hale
This led to:
Noam Chomsky: Obama's Drone Program is 'The Most Extreme Terrorist Campaign of Modern Times'
Famed linguist takes aim at western hypocrisy on terrorism.
https://www.commondreams.org/news/2015/01/19/noam-chomsky-obamas-drone-program-most-extreme-terrorist-campaign-modern-times
This Chomsky quote was before Trump who increased the use of drones above that of Obama who increased it above that of GW Bush who went to war with Iraq and Afghanistan because he wanted to be a war president. Talk about vanity! (BTW, Afghanistan was willing to turn bin Laden over to a third country if the US could provide evidence of his guilt, a reasonable enough request. When Obama after bin Laden was killed called that justice, that was wrong; justice is a trial.)
I understand that Biden has put a pause on drone strikes.
I hope that is true and that he keeps to it.
I think an important question is: Where do we war mentally?
Do we catch our judgemental selves?
Do we catch those nasty thoughts of hatred?
Do we catch ourselves projecting blame?
Do we allow our imagination to project affirmative war or ....do we redirect it, comfort it, send it love and thanks?
"Am I, in the quicksand?"
"Am I, choosing outcomes of data from a state of fear, anger, shame ?"
When I find "evil" in the world do I make more "evil" in the world?
Do I take the time out daily to connect with peace in the world? Do I then turn the news on or internet news on hours later negating my work?
How can I as an individual contribute to peace?
I think paying attention to our thoughts 24/7 is one of the things we can do. And to question those thoughts.
( Since there are a lot of newsy things here I am going to plug Byron Katie here. Judge your neighbor worksheet (https://thework.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/jyn_en_mod_6feb2019_r4_form1.pdf).)
Not too long ago I delved into an area of life that... well it questioned my mountain of beliefs in a way I never thought possible. I kept asking is it true? Can I absolutely know this is true? One thing I learned was that I had reached a point where it really didnt matter as much as it did that I subjected by precious precious self to a battery of abuses.
Granted I pulled through it, it was not something constructive but destructive. It was not loving and gentle. It was harsh and grotesque. A horror shit show to be frank.
We are all ...
Worthy deserving people. We all have a right to our lives in this universe. We have a right to be because we are.
I discovered that reality IS what you make it.
You get what you focus on there is no other main rule.
I do forgive myself. It took some time but I really do forgive myself.
And the more I thought about the horror shit show, the more I kept it alive in my world.
Its like looking at a photo of an abused child and thinking over and over this child is abused. That child is abused everytime someone sees the photo.
Much like our memories of perhaps something traumatic in our lives. We keep it alive.
You get what you focus on there is no other main rule.
Everytime you think of war sonewhere you keep it going.
Thats how the news works and I suspect at their higher levels they know this! They understand the psychology of news reporting.
You are a being of immense power and you create your reality totally.
@strangerthings You're hard to follow.
Quote from: Mark M on March 27, 2022, 10:57:49 PMinavalan's post of the US warmaking stats are unfortunately too little known amongst US/Americans.
When I "talk like that," some think I must "hate America."
Sorry to such folks, but those stats are the truth and the corporate/mainstream media lies by omission in this way.
...
To love your country and its people, while disagreeing with some of them and disapproving of the policies of those elected or nominated is
normal, acceptable and healthy in a democratic society.
If you can't freely express your opinion, if you're pressed to conform to others' opinions, that is totalitarianism, and that isn't a society you'd like to live in.
You may agree today with those in power and those who curtail opposition, but be sure that that will happen soon to you too.
The so called Western democracies, have experienced lately blatant examples of non-democratic actions from their governments, with the backing of the media (legacy and social) and of large segments of population. A few unexpected examples: Canada, Australia, Austria, France used force against peaceful dissent, shut down all dissent with the official narratives.
From a Sethian perspective we know that this inevitably causes pain and suffering.
inavalan wrote:
"To love your country and its people, while disagreeing with some of them and disapproving of the policies of those elected or nominated is normal, acceptable and healthy in a democratic society...."
I say, if one is going to love one's country, make sure it loves you back.
Quote from: Mark M on March 27, 2022, 10:57:49 PMSorry to such folks, but those stats are the truth and the corporate/mainstream media lies by omission in this way.
Just curious how that works. With Seth's probable realities, in whose reality are they the truth?
For example, there's those quotes from UR1 (bolding is mine, for emphasis, underlining is Seth's):
"
Your parents literally did not share the same reality at all. This is not as unusual as you may think. They met and related in a place
between each of their realities. It was not that they disagreed with each other's interpretation of events.
The events were different."
—UR1 Section 1: Session 680 February 6, 1974
"According to Seth, then, in one probability I failed to survive the operation I underwent for appendicitis in this reality when I was 11 years old. My second probable death took place sometime during the years of my military service (1943–46) in World War II. It's interesting to note that Seth says I was a pilot, and hence an officer, in that probability. In the reality I know, I served in the ATC — the Air Transport Command — as an aircraft instrument specialist and mechanic, with the rank of staff sergeant."
—UR1 Section 1: Session 681 February 11, 1974
[My point here is that the facts of Rob's deaths in three realities (add to it 2008) are all different.]
And because I'm a nerd who is curious about everything (especially what's reported in the media), pretty or not, I tried to track down the sources of those stats that are the truth (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php/topic,2627.msg22054.html#msg22054) and came up with what's below. Correct me if I'm wrong, please, as to the sources. I don't trust MSM one bit, but I have even less confidence in those below. No country, no person, is perfect as far as I can tell. That's why we're all still here in F1, right?
1st graphic, Wars 1945-2001, seems to have originated from the
Chinese embassy in Russia: https://see.news/china-united-states-initiated-81-of-worlds-armed-conflicts/ "Among the 248 armed conflicts that occurred in 153 regions across the world from 1945 to 2001, 201 were initiated by the #US, accounting for 81% of the total number," the embassy wrote in a
tweet.
2nd graphic, US Interventions Since WWII: Source Redfish & The Zen Marxist Revolutionary Lumpen Radio (WTH?) on
Twitter and Facebook. https://m.facebook.com/redfishstream/posts/1270453303398498?locale2=ms_MY [Per Wiki: Redfish, a Berlin-based media collective, launched with a promise to deliver "radical, in-depth grassroots features,"]
3rd graphic, US Bombing List: [Source: minds.com/akana "Sorry the channel does not exist"] Seems to have again originated from the
Chinese Embassy in Russia, "Never forget real threat to world." https://www.firstpost.com/world/never-forget-real-threat-to-world-amid-ukraine-crisis-chinese-embassy-in-russia-slams-us-10413011.html
So are these 100% fact, or a bit of propaganda? I have no idea. I have no doubt there is some truth as a basis, but trusting the sources having no agenda... not so much.
Overthrowing other people's governments: The Master List
By William Blum
Instances of the United States overthrowing, or attempting to overthrow, a foreign government since the Second World War. (* indicates successful ouster of a government)
China 1949 to early 1960s
Albania 1949-53
East Germany 1950s
Iran 1953 *
Guatemala 1954 *
Costa Rica mid-1950s
Syria 1956-7
Egypt 1957
Indonesia 1957-8
British Guiana 1953-64 *
Iraq 1963 *
North Vietnam 1945-73
Cambodia 1955-70 *
Laos 1958 *, 1959 *, 1960 *
Ecuador 1960-63 *
Congo 1960 *
France 1965
Brazil 1962-64 *
Dominican Republic 1963 *
Cuba 1959 to present
Bolivia 1964 *
Indonesia 1965 *
Ghana 1966 *
Chile 1964-73 *
Greece 1967 *
Costa Rica 1970-71
Bolivia 1971 *
Australia 1973-75 *
Angola 1975, 1980s
Zaire 1975
Portugal 1974-76 *
Jamaica 1976-80 *
Seychelles 1979-81
Chad 1981-82 *
Grenada 1983 *
South Yemen 1982-84
Suriname 1982-84
Fiji 1987 *
Libya 1980s
Nicaragua 1981-90 *
Panama 1989 *
Bulgaria 1990 *
Albania 1991 *
Iraq 1991
Afghanistan 1980s *
Somalia 1993
Yugoslavia 1999-2000 *
Ecuador 2000 *
Afghanistan 2001 *
Venezuela 2002 *
Iraq 2003 *
Haiti 2004 *
Somalia 2007 to present
Honduras 2009 *
Libya 2011 *
Syria 2012
Ukraine 2014 *
Q: Why will there never be a coup d'état in Washington?
A: Because there's no American embassy there.
https://williamblum.org/essays/read/overthrowing-other-peoples-governments-the-master-list
Map of US Military and CIA Interventions since World War II:
https://williamblum.org/intervention-map
In 1969, Blum wrote and published an exposé of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) in which were revealed the names and addresses of more than 200 CIA employees. He worked as freelance journalist in the United States, Europe and South America. In 1972–1973, Blum worked as a journalist in Chile where he reported on the Allende government's "socialist experiment". In the mid-1970s, he worked in London with ex-CIA officer Philip Agee and his associates "on their project of exposing CIA personnel and their misdeeds".[5] He supported himself with his writing and speaking engagements on college campuses.[2] One of Blum's stories on Iraq was listed by Project Censored as one of "The Top Ten Censored Stories of 1998"[6]
In his books and online columns, Blum devoted substantial attention to CIA interventions and assassination plots. Noam Chomsky has called Blum's book Killing Hope: U.S. Military and CIA Interventions Since World War II, "far and away the best book on the topic."[7] Blum supported Ralph Nader's presidential campaigns.[8] He circulated a monthly newsletter by email called "The Anti-Empire Report".[9][10] Blum described his life's mission as: "If not ending, at least slowing down the American Empire. At least injuring the beast. It's causing so much suffering around the world."[2]
In an interview with C-SPAN in 2006, Blum stated: "Speaking about U.S. foreign policy, which is my specialty, the authors I would most recommend would be Michael Parenti and Noam Chomsky and Edward Herman and Howard Zinn and Alexander Cockburn."[11]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Blum
Quote from: Deb on March 29, 2022, 10:48:28 PM...
So are these 100% fact, or a bit of propaganda? I have no idea. I have no doubt there is some truth as a basis, but trusting the sources having no agenda... not so much.
Not sure I understand your point about that data ...
Are you saying that that information isn't accurate? I guess that's what's important. Looking back at the history I know, much of it during my lifetime, the data is 100% accurate.
Have you tried to disprove any item from those lists?
Quote from: Deb on March 29, 2022, 10:48:28 PMJust curious how that works. With Seth's probable realities, in whose reality are they the truth?
For example, there's those quotes from UR1 (bolding is mine, for emphasis, underlining is Seth's):
"Your parents literally did not share the same reality at all. This is not as unusual as you may think. They met and related in a place between each of their realities. It was not that they disagreed with each other's interpretation of events. The events were different."
—UR1 Section 1: Session 680 February 6, 1974
"According to Seth, then, in one probability I failed to survive the operation I underwent for appendicitis in this reality when I was 11 years old. My second probable death took place sometime during the years of my military service (1943–46) in World War II. It's interesting to note that Seth says I was a pilot, and hence an officer, in that probability. In the reality I know, I served in the ATC — the Air Transport Command — as an aircraft instrument specialist and mechanic, with the rank of staff sergeant."
—UR1 Section 1: Session 681 February 11, 1974
[My point here is that the facts of Rob's deaths in three realities (add to it 2008) are all different.]
...
All realities are true. It is just that some participants experience some realities, other participants other realities, past, present, future. There is no single objective reality that follows a unique timeline.
From the point of view of a personality there is only one small timeline in the hyperspace of the physical reality (time, 3d-space, possibilities), the one that personality traced through the choices it made over its lifetime.
EDIT: By the way, usually even that personality doesn't accurately recall its past, as it continuously makes choices in all time, space, probability directions of the physical hyperspace; its past changes.
When you incarnate you can choose to incarnate anywhere, anytime, in any possible reality, as it fits your interest and preference.
For example, your previous incarnation may have been in our past, future, or present. Same about your next incarnation. Your next incarnation could be Lumania, or year 3000, or 2020. It could be in the year 2020 in a world in which Germans won the ww2, or a 2020 in which the people are so evolved that they communicate telepathically, or in a 2020 as we experienced, ... There are 2020 probable realities where the Earth is depopulated for various causes.
When Seth talks about three different examples of Rob's deaths, he talks about timelines he could've fallowed if his ego had made other choices. There is only one timeline traced by this incarnation of Rob's. This doesn't mean that this incarnation of mine experiences the same timeline of Rob's that he experienced. I think this is of major importance to understand!
Quote from: Deb on March 29, 2022, 10:48:28 PMYour parents literally did not share the same reality at all. This is not as unusual as you may think. They met and related in a place between each of their realities. It was not that they disagreed with each other's interpretation of events. The events were different."
This is helping me make sense of most of my relationships 🤔
For propaganda to be most effective, one starts with an element of truth or widely held belief and then exaggerates it. Examples are in this thread. In the US INTERVENTIONS SINCE WWII chart (inavalan, March 26), listing "Bomb attacks, sabotage, attempted regime change" in the same list, I must question much of it. At what point did the U.S. attack or commit sabotage in Tibet? According to the list, it was the timespan of 1955 thru the 70's. If it was only "attempted regime change", was that through support of Tibet via diplomacy? If so, what is it doing lumped in with bomb attacks?
Why is Iraq listed five times? There were two wars and a long occupation with the second one. Kuwait is also listed during the first war, even though the "regime change" there was to restore the original from the Iraqi takeover.
In the "Overthrowing other people's governments, the master list" (Mark M, March 29), I am not aware that the desire for East Germany to be freed from Soviet control included any violent actions on the part of the U.S. I am also unaware that the U.S. attempted to overthrow the government of France in 1965 or that of Australia from 1973-75. I wonder if many of these examples are simply diplomatic in nature, without bombing or sabotage. Certainly, many of the listed cases are correct, but likely with exaggerations and innuendo. I am not familiar with many of the items on these charts, but just from the examples given, it raises questions about the accuracy of other items. I do not support any use of violence, and these charts at least remind us that the U.S. has not always played nice in international relations, but we must view this type of information as partially propaganda and take it with a grain of salt.
Quote from: LarryH on March 30, 2022, 01:22:32 PMFor propaganda to be most effective, one starts with an element of truth or widely held belief and then exaggerates it. Examples are in this thread. In the US INTERVENTIONS SINCE WWII chart (inavalan, March 26), listing "Bomb attacks, sabotage, attempted regime change" in the same list, I must question much of it. At what point did the U.S. attack or commit sabotage in Tibet? According to the list, it was the timespan of 1955 thru the 70's. If it was only "attempted regime change", was that through support of Tibet via diplomacy? If so, what is it doing lumped in with bomb attacks? ...
You missed the point. It isn't surprising.
Deb published a list about Russia's past military actions, and a quick search yielded similar lists about US'. I posted a couple of them just to show that propaganda, as well as covert and military operations against other countries happen on all sides, and nobody is entitled to cast stones. Mark posted more supporting information.
A common sense look at the history doesn't support your outrage, which is
probably caused by
uncritically watching the main stream media.
Do you see the big picture of Ukraine's situation much different from Yugoslavia's (the comparison is favorable to the Yugoslavia)? I really don't care to know.
I replied to your post just because you critically mentioned my screen name and post, misunderstanding its significance.
Quote from: inavalan on March 30, 2022, 02:36:21 PMA common sense look at the history doesn't support your outrage, which is probably caused by uncritically watching the main stream media.
What "outrage" is that? Did I come across as outraged? I thought I was making reasoned observations. And what about my post makes you think that I "uncritically watch the mainstream media"? There is propaganda on all sides. I notice that you did not challenge the specific questionable examples that I gave, but just resorted to insults. My post was not a defense of the U.S., it was a critique of possible examples of propaganda within this thread.
Berlin Wall -- the other side of the story -- did you know?:
First of all, before the wall went up in 1961 thousands of East Germans had been commuting to the West for jobs each day and then returning to the East in the evening; many others went back and forth for shopping or other reasons. So they were clearly not being held in the East against their will. Why then was the wall built? There were two major reasons:
1) The West was bedeviling the East with a vigorous campaign of recruiting East German professionals and skilled workers, who had been educated at the expense of the Communist government. This eventually led to a serious labor and production crisis in the East. As one indication of this, the New York Times reported in 1963: "West Berlin suffered economically from the wall by the loss of about 60,000 skilled workmen who had commuted daily from their homes in East Berlin to their places of work in West Berlin."
It should be noted that in 1999, USA Today reported: "When the Berlin Wall crumbled [1989], East Germans imagined a life of freedom where consumer goods were abundant and hardships would fade. Ten years later, a remarkable 51% say they were happier with communism." Earlier polls would likely have shown even more than 51% expressing such a sentiment, for in the ten years many of those who remembered life in East Germany with some fondness had passed away; although even 10 years later, in 2009, the Washington Post could report: "Westerners [in Berlin] say they are fed up with the tendency of their eastern counterparts to wax nostalgic about communist times."
It was in the post-unification period that a new Russian and eastern Europe proverb was born: "Everything the Communists said about Communism was a lie, but everything they said about capitalism turned out to be the truth."
It should be further noted that the division of Germany into two states in 1949 – setting the stage for 40 years of Cold War hostility – was an American decision, not a Soviet one.
2) During the 1950s, American cold warriors in West Germany instituted a crude campaign of sabotage and subversion against East Germany designed to throw that country's economic and administrative machinery out of gear. The CIA and other US intelligence and military services recruited, equipped, trained and financed German activist groups and individuals, of West and East, to carry out actions which ran the spectrum from juvenile delinquency to terrorism; anything to make life difficult for the East German people and weaken their support of the government; anything to make the commies look bad.
It was a remarkable undertaking. The United States and its agents used explosives, arson, short circuiting, and other methods to damage power stations, shipyards, canals, docks, public buildings, gas stations, public transportation, bridges, etc.; they derailed freight trains, seriously injuring workers; burned 12 cars of a freight train and destroyed air pressure hoses of others; used acids to damage vital factory machinery; put sand in the turbine of a factory, bringing it to a standstill; set fire to a tile-producing factory; promoted work slow-downs in factories; killed 7,000 cows of a co-operative dairy through poisoning; added soap to powdered milk destined for East German schools; were in possession, when arrested, of a large quantity of the poison cantharidin with which it was planned to produce poisoned cigarettes to kill leading East Germans; set off stink bombs to disrupt political meetings; attempted to disrupt the World Youth Festival in East Berlin by sending out forged invitations, false promises of free bed and board, false notices of cancellations, etc.; carried out attacks on participants with explosives, firebombs, and tire-puncturing equipment; forged and distributed large quantities of food ration cards to cause confusion, shortages and resentment; sent out forged tax notices and other government directives and documents to foster disorganization and inefficiency within industry and unions ... all this and much more.
The Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars, of Washington, DC, conservative cold warriors, in one of their Cold War International History Project Working Papers (#58, p.9) states: "The open border in Berlin exposed the GDR [East Germany] to massive espionage and subversion and, as the two documents in the appendices show, its closure gave the Communist state greater security."
Throughout the 1950s, the East Germans and the Soviet Union repeatedly lodged complaints with the
Soviets' erstwhile allies in the West and with the United Nations about specific sabotage and espionage activities and called for the closure of the offices in West Germany they claimed were responsible, and for which they provided names and addresses. Their complaints fell on deaf ears. Inevitably, the East Germans began to tighten up entry into the country from the West, leading eventually to the infamous wall. However, even after the wall was built there was regular, albeit limited, legal emigration from east to west. In 1984, for example, East Germany allowed 40,000 people to leave. In 1985, East German newspapers claimed that more than 20,000 former citizens who had settled in the West wanted to return home after becoming disillusioned with the capitalist system. The West German government said that 14,300 East Germans had gone back over the previous 10 years.
Let's also not forget that while East Germany completely denazified, in West Germany for more than a decade after the war, the highest government positions in the executive, legislative, and judicial branches contained numerous former and "former" Nazis.
Finally, it must be remembered, that Eastern Europe became communist because Hitler, with the approval of the West, used it as a highway to reach the Soviet Union to wipe out Bolshevism forever, and that the Russians in World War I and II, lost about 40 million people because the West had used this highway to invade Russia. It should not be surprising that after World War II the Soviet Union was determined to close down the highway.
From
https://williamblum.org/aer/read/133
The CIA is essentially the US agency of state crime.
'Before the act was passed. Secretary of State George Marshall warned President Truman that it granted the new intelligence agency in particular powers that were "almost unlimited," a criticism of the CIA that Truman would echo much too late—soon after the assassination of John Kennedy.'
From JFK and the Unspeakable by James W. Douglass (2008)
Truman wrote a piece that appeared in newspapers saying he intended the agency to be intelligence gathering not performing covert operations.
Seems he had deaf ears to Marshall.
This photo went around the world and the commie countries made hay with it.
A "Freedom Bus" in flames, six miles southwest of Anniston, Ala., May 14, 1961. (Birmingham Public Library)
https://media.npr.org/programs/fa/features/2006/01/freedom/bus_200-1bfce086da14ea18f3c7e3e705cd864598d16de6-s300-c85.webp
https://www.npr.org/2006/01/12/5149667/get-on-the-bus-the-freedom-riders-of-1961
The Ukraine invasion outrage gets a lot of attention in part because the victims are white. We all know by now what their flag looks like.
A writer (David Swanson?) pointed out in contrast that few US/Americans know what the Yemeni flag looks like.
The US supports the Saudi's brutal war on Yemen, selling the Saudi's the weapons.
Also, I wonder how much US outrage was over China's annexation of Tibet in 1950.
In perhaps the CIA's only good deed, they helped get the Dalai Lama out of there in 1959.
"...China annexed Tibet in 1950. Although the estimates vary considerably, it is believed that up to one million Tibetan natives have been killed by the Chinese to suppress their demand for freedom. As the Tibetans are highly religious by nature, the Chinese have methodically targeted their places of worship and learning with a vengeance. Over 6,000 monasteries have been destroyed or ransacked. Damage done to Tibet's relics, heritage and architecture has been truly horrendous; and beyond redemption...."
https://tibet.net/tibet-a-narrative-of-cultural-holocaust/
This does not excuse Putin:
These Pentagon sources confirm what Putin and the Russian Ministry of Defense have been saying all along: that instead of being "stalled," Russia is executing a methodical war plan to encircle cities, opening humanitarian corridors for civilians, leaving civilian infrastructure like water, electricity, telephony and internet intact, and trying to avoid as many civilian casualties as possible.
Until these Pentagon leaks it was difficult to confirm that Russia was entirely telling the truth and that corporate media were publishing fables cooked up by Ukraine's publicity machine.
From
https://consortiumnews.com/2022/03/23/pentagon-drops-truth-bombs-to-stave-off-war-with-russia/
Touching on propaganda, ridiculously accusing of promoting conspiracy theories, or not having compassion, or other unwarranted accusations, to shut down and discredit voices that disagree with the official narrative.
"Between 1947 and 1989, the United Stated tried to change other nations' governments 72 times. It includes 66 covert operations and 6 overt ones. Most US "secret wars" were against other democratic states."
"... peculiar elasticity then sudden rigidity of morality ... we're allowed to do this now"
"Globally there were 117 "partisan electoral interventions" between 1946 and 2000. The majority of these - almost 70 per cent - were cases of US interference. 21 such interventions took place between 1990 and 2000, of which 18 were by the US. 60 different independent countries have been the targets of such interventions. Two thirds of interventins were done in secret, with voters having no idea that foreign powers were actively trying to influence the results."
"All the self-righteous posturing by the western political / media class about the need to pour weapons into Ukraine is not really about saving Ukrainian lives (only negotiating a ceasefire can do that), but about seizing this golden opportunity to hurt Russia's geostrategic interests as much as possible.
Ukraine on its own is powerless to stop Russia from taking Kyiv no matter how many weapons are sent, but those weapons can be used to fight a 'long, bloody insurgency', which costs many more lives, keeps Moscow militarily preoccupied and hemorrhaging money, and ultimately hurts Putin's popularity at home.
This by itself would do a great deal to advance US interests, but on top of that you've got the even greater benefit of manufacturing international consent for unprecedented acts of economic warfare against the entire nation of Russia, as well as killing Nord Stream 2 and rallying immense support for NATO and the imperial machine / intelligence machine.
We can expect these agendas to be used in an attempt to impoverish, undermine, agitate, and ultimately collapse and balkanize Russia. This would leave China standing alone without its nuclear superpower guard bear and much more vulnerable to imperial operations geared toward thwarting the emergence of a true multipolar world, a goal US imperialists have had in writing for three decades.
No meaningful diplomatic effort is being made by Washington to end the violence. Ukrainian lives are being spent like pennies to facilitate the agenda of US planetary domination by whipping up international support for the strangulation of Russia, while pouring vast fortunes into the military-industrial complex rather than taking even the tiniest step toward de-escalation and diplomacy."
From Russell Brand's youtube show, Mar 30 2022:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCfkKQiTI-M
These being said, most people get tripped into focusing on irrelevant details and interpretations of the events they witness or participate in, instead of intuitively interpreting them, to learn and evolve. We are supposed here to be Sethians, aren't we? That should help us to interpret better, but the old habits die hard, if at all.
By the way, Deb posted that statistic a few days ago, then I posted the results of my search, and a discussion ensued that reached an apex today. Also today, Russel Brandt made a show about a similar statistic with the one I posted, and it happened that today I found it and watched it, without actually searching for it.
In New Age terms, this would be a synchronicity, but in Seth's terms, for each one of us the same event yields specific deeper interpretations.
Earlier today during my walk, as usually I got in a light trance. Right before arriving back home, I asked my inner guidance for a proof, by the end of today if possible, of my creating reality.
After I wrote the previous post in this thread, while reading something else, the thought about the above synchronicity crossed my mind. I immediately got in a light trance and asked for the interpretation of it. To my surprise, I learned that this wasn't a synchronicity, but the proof I asked for that I create my reality as I focus on.
To synchronize the steps of this discussion here, with Brandt's making his episode, with the author of the article Brandt discussed, with my finding Brandt's video, seems quite complicated, but from the point of view of choosing and creating your life-line through the space of probabilities both toward the temporal future and the temporal past, it is much less complicated. Everything that could've happened already exists, or can be created, and your subconscious just creates the life-line to match your beliefs, expectations, focus.
Joe Biden is not the only one talking about a new world order:
Russia says it's building a new "democratic world order" with China (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/russia-china-lavrov-visit-beijing-vladimir-putin-xi-jinping-new-world-order/)
I would hardly be surprised if this isn't ongoing:
Operation Mockingbird is an alleged large-scale program of the United States Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) that began in the early years of the Cold War and attempted to manipulate news media for propaganda purposes. According to author Deborah Davis, Operation Mockingbird recruited leading American journalists into a propaganda network and influenced the operations of front groups. CIA support of front groups was exposed when an April 1967 Ramparts article reported that the National Student Association received funding from the CIA.[1] In 1975, Church Committee Congressional investigations revealed Agency connections with journalists and civic groups.
From
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird
'[The author] also names Bob Woodward of The Washington Post as an intelligence agent who conspired with John Dean to remove President Richard Nixon from office for opposing the oil depletion allowance.'
'He describes Watergate "not as a ham-handed act of political espionage but as a carefully orchestrated farce designed to take down President Richard Nixon."'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_of_Secrets
The idea was to bring Nixon (hardly an angel) down thru a deliberately botched break-in at the Watergate Hotel.
Nixon himself said that break-in felt like a trap, that he wouldn't have sought intelligence on the Dems there.
It's a fascinating book.
The slogan says: Make the "1984" fiction again!
- In 1984, the world is divided into three states: Oceania, Eastasia, and Eurasia. Oceania is constantly at war with one of these states while at peace with the other. For the majority of the book, Oceania is at war with Eastasia and is allied with Eurasia. Winston, however, clearly remembers a time when Eurasia was the enemy, but the party have rewritten the official history and nobody is prepared to contradict this (Part 1, Chapter 3). So the party continues to vilify Eastasia by encouraging public hatred of the country and by executing its war criminals.
Suddenly, in the middle of Hate Week, an event designed to encourage hatred of Eastasia, Oceania switches its enemy. This happens without any warning and, all of a sudden, Oceania is at war with Eurasia and the war with Eastasia never existed. This happens in Part 2, Chapter 9, and brings the realisation to Winston that the entire history of the last five years will need to be rewritten.
But, as Julia notes in Part 1, Chapter 5, the enemy is not really significant: "It's always one bloody war after another, and one knows the news is all lies anyway." In other words, it's not the enemy who matters but rather the fact that Oceania is constantly at war. Whether the war is even happening is another non-issue: again, it is the fact that the party maintains a constant state of war that is truly significant. As Goldstein comments in his book in Part 2, Chapter 9, by keeping the people in this constant state, the party is able to perpetuate an unequal distribution of wealth. It is this unequal distribution which keeps the citizens of Oceania controlled and conquered.
EDIT: I guess there's no need to spell it out ...
Oceania ... nato
Eastasia ... China
Eurasia ... Russia
It's uncanny! Orwell was a visionary.
Turns Out Corporate Media Can Oppose War— When an Official Enemy Is the Aggressor
by Jeff Cohen
Having worked inside US corporate media during the beginning of the "War on Terror" and the run-up to the US invasion of Iraq, the differences in today's war coverage are dizzying to me.
While covering Russia's horrific aggression in Ukraine, there is a real focus—as there always should be—on civilian victims of war. Today, the focus on that essential aspect of the Russian invasion is prominent and continuous—from civilian deaths to the trauma felt by civilians as missiles strike nearby.
Unfortunately, there was virtually no focus on civilian death and agony when it was the US military launching the invasions. After the US invaded Iraq in 2003 on false pretenses—made possible by US mainstream media complicity that I witnessed firsthand—civilian deaths were largely ignored and undercounted through the years (FAIR.org, 6/7/13).
Shortly after the US invaded Afghanistan in October 2001, leaked directives from CNN's management to its correspondents and anchors showed that the network was intent on playing down and rationalizing the killing and maiming of Afghan civilians by the US military (FAIR.org, 11/1/01). One memo instructed CNN anchors that if they ever referenced Afghan civilian victims, they needed to quickly announce to their audience: "These US military actions are in response to a terrorist attack that killed close to 5,000 innocent people in the US." Such language was mandatory, said the memo: "Even though it may start sounding rote, it is important that we make this point each time."
A few weeks after 9/11, what CNN viewer had forgotten it?
Noting the cursory US television coverage of Afghan civilian casualties, a New York Times reporter (11/1/01) wrote:
"In the United States, television images of Afghan bombing victims are fleeting, cushioned between anchors or American officials explaining that such sights are only one side of the story. In the rest of the world, however, images of wounded Afghan children curled in hospital beds or women rocking in despair over a baby's corpse, beamed via satellite by the Qatar-based network Al Jazeera, or CNN International, are more frequent and lingering."
The near-blackout on coverage of the civilian toll continued for decades. Last year, NBC anchor Lester Holt (4/30/21) did a summing-up report on Afghanistan as "America's longest war" by offering one and only one casualty figure: "2,300 American deaths." There was no mention of the more than 70,000 Afghan civilian deaths since 2001, and no mention of a UN study that found in the first half of 2019, due mostly to aerial bombing, the US and its allies killed more civilians than the Taliban and its allies.
As the war on terror expanded to other countries, US corporate media remained largely uninterested in civilian victims of US warfare and drone strikes (FAIR.org, 4/22/20; The Conversation, 10/22/15).
International law
Invasions and military force by one country against another are clearly illegal under international law, unless conducted in true self defense (or authorized by the UN Security Council). In coverage of Russia's invasion of Ukraine, US mainstream media have correctly, repeatedly and without equivocation invoked international law and declared the invasion illegal. As they did when Russia invaded Crimea in 2014.
By contrast, when the US illegally invaded or attacked country after country in recent decades, international law has almost never been invoked by US corporate media.
In 1989, when the US invaded Panama in perhaps the bloodiest drug bust in history, mainstream US media made a determined effort to ignore international law and its violation—as well as the slaughter of civilians (FAIR.org, 1–2/90).
So as we rally to support Ukrainian civilians against great-power aggression from Russia, let's do so with the understanding that that all civilian victims of wars and violent coups are worthy, whether Iraqi or Honduran or Ukrainian—and that all criminals who violate international law should be held accountable, whether they're based in Moscow or Washington, DC.
Jeff Cohen is the founder of FAIR and the co-founder of RootsAction.org, an online action group. A version of this article was published by Common Dreams (2/28/22).
EXTRA! The Newsletter of FAIR—The Media Watch Group April 2022 Vol. 35, No. 3
...And while the U.S. is attempting to claim that the world is on its side in wanting to isolate Russia, the opposite is actually true. Thus, if one looks at the countries that either voted against, abstained from or simply did not vote at all on the UN General Assembly resolution condemning Russia's actions—(against) Russia, North Korea, Eritrea, Belarus and Syria; (abstaining) China, India, Iran, Iraq, Algeria, Angola, Armenia, Bangladesh, Bolivia, Burundi, Central African Republic, Congo, Cuba, El Salvador, Equatorial Guinea, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Laos, Madagascar, Mali, Mongolia, Mozambique, Namibia, Nicaragua, Pakistan, Senegal, South Africa, South Sudan, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Tajikistan, Tanzania, Uganda and Vietnam; (not voting) Azerbaijan, Burkina Faso, Cameroon, Eswatini, Ethiopia, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Morocco, Togo, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan and Venezuela—one sees that countries representing the majority of the world's population and a huge portion of its land mass are not with the U.S. on this....
Meanwhile, a number of important world leaders have been very clear that they firmly put the blame upon the U.S. and NATO for what has happened in Ukraine.
For example, former Bolivian President Evo Morales—victim of a U.S.-backed coup in 2019—denounced the "crimes against humanity" committed by Ukraine since 2014, and said that "the U.S. always provokes wars to sell its weapons, interventions, military bases, to take over natural resources (...) It is not only looking for Ukraine's resources, but also to encircle Russia militarily."
Morales called for an "international mobilization to stop the interventionist expansionism of NATO and the U.S.," which he referred to as "the main enemy of humanity, threaten[ing] life, peace, and the economy through its expansionist, interventionist and warmongering policy."...
Morales's statement comes as top-secret documents have been revealed proposing NATO expansion into Latin America, both through the British Mount Pleasant base in the Falkland Islands (islands which the UK forcibly took from Argentina in 1982) and through Colombia, which has been an "extra-continental partner since 2017 and . . . was already used to train Bolivian Air Force officers."
And, of course, the U.S. and Colombia held joint naval exercises off the coast of Colombia—exercises which included a U.S. nuclear submarine—within days of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. According to Colombian Defense Minister Diego Milano at the time, "[t]his exercise is carried out within the scope of NATO, in the case of Colombia as a global partner country, it seeks to adapt the best international standards in the development of maritime operations."...
For years, the world has watched as the U.S. and NATO expanded up to Russia's borders, and even beyond to places like Colombia; bombed and invaded one nation after another (e.g., Serbia, Iraq (twice), Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, Somalia, Yemen) at will and with complete impunity; and flaunted international law as if it were a mere trifle. In addition to causing huge suffering, this has caused great resentment and frustration amongst the world community which seemed powerless to stop the Western onslaught.
...
The Russian operation in Ukraine, which many see as an operation against NATO itself, marks the end of all this in a profound way. While the U.S. condemns this operation, citing international law, anyone paying attention knows that the international law it relies upon has been violently destroyed by the U.S. itself which, inter alia, has made a point to show the world that it could act militarily against other countries (e.g., Serbia, Iraq) without even seeking UN Security Council authorization as it is required to do; ignored the decisions of the International Court of Justice and withdrew from most of its jurisdiction; and even sanctioned International Criminal Court officials for announcing their intention to investigate U.S. war crimes in Afghanistan.
Dr. Francis Boyle joins Tamil Peoples' Council Team | IllinoisFrancis Boyle [Source: blogs.illinois.edu]
International law experts, such as Professor Francis A. Boyle, have commented that Russia was acting within the self-defense provision of Article 51 of the UN Charter through its Ukraine operations given the real and imminent threat that Ukraine forces represented to Russia and to the ethnic Russians living in Ukraine (many of whom are Russian citizens). (Boyle also argues, by the way, that the U.S.'s biolabs in Ukraine are definitely bio-weapons facilities, and he should know given that he helped draft the biological weapons ban Convention.) In any case, whether one agrees with Boyle or not, what is true is that Russia certainly has a better case under international law for its actions in Ukraine than the U.S. has had for invading countries halfway around the world which presented absolutely no threat to the United States.
And even more to the point of the present discussion, Russia's operations in Ukraine, understood as a strike against NATO aggression and encirclement, signals the end of the U.S. and NATO's ability to act unilaterally around the world at will and without any repercussions. Russia had drawn a line in the sand, and once crossed by the West, it acted militarily to defend its interests.
This is something that no country has dared to do since the end of the Cold War, and this marks the end of the "New World Order"—a doctrine pursuant to which the U.S. assumed to itself the role of master of the world—which President George H.W. Bush announced as the East Bloc was collapsing and which has been in place till now. Not surprisingly, most of the world never liked the terms of the "New World Order" to begin with, were in fact victimized under that regime and certainly are not going to do anything now to stop it from crumbling.
https://covertactionmagazine.com/2022/03/24/russias-invasion-of-ukraine-signifies-the-end-of-an-era-of-unipolar-american-power/
There are non-Sethian ways of thinking about this, and Sethian ways.
As I wrote earlier: https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=22049
- To me, the lesson is that this "event" experienced by Ukrainians is about hate, no matter how justified may seem, bringing more hate, eventually degenerating into fear, and into fear of survival (there are Seth quotes tying those together).
The guidance is: don't do it! Watch your emotions: don't hate!
It is easy to respond emotionally and yield to hate and anger toward those that media points at as being the bad guys, and to be fearful of what might happen to the world, to you and to your family (inflation, collapse of the economy and social systems, war, nuclear war, death). Don't submit to those who push you on that path! They don't know what they're doing. You, as a Sethian, (should) know better.
It is likely that if this hateful rhetoric, with its appeal to hateful emotions, doesn't tone down, the Western world especially (including their populations) are headed toward a lot of suffering, situations that will cause them more hate and anger, that will end up in fear for life.
On one hand, what's happening, to each one of us, is only the result of our individual choice; nothing is forced on each one of us by others' will. So, we shouldn't blame others.
On the other hand, being quite ignorant, we inherently make mistakes. So, we shouldn't blame ourselves, excepting when we're stubborn and persist, believing we're smarter than we are.
Quote from: inavalan on April 03, 2022, 12:39:54 AMThere are non-Sethian ways of thinking about this, and Sethian ways.
As I wrote earlier: https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=22049
Thanks
@inavalan for bringing this topic around to my original intention: Discussing the Russia/Ukraine war as a mass event, and how the Seth materials explain it. The same way we discussed covid as a mass event. I've tried to reiterate my intention, but to no avail.
Since it's been going so far off the rails I've decided to lock this topic—I don't see a point in continuing. In the 8 year history of this forum, this is a first.
Thanks for ending this topic on a good note inavalan.