~Speaking of Seth~

Seth/Jane Roberts Public Boards: All posts are visible to the www => Seth-Related Discussions => Topic started by: Sena on May 12, 2016, 06:27:37 AM

Title: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Sena on May 12, 2016, 06:27:37 AM
Paul, thanks for your excellent summary of "who or what Seth is or was". You mention the return of the Christ personality. A reader of this forum who is not that familiar with the Seth books may confuse this with the Christian distortion which says that Christ will come again to "judge the living and the dead". Seth explicitly stated that this not the case:
Quote
The third personality…has not in your terms yet appeared, although his existence has been prophecied as the “Second Coming”. Now these prophecies were given in terms of the current culture at that time, and therefore, while the stage has been set, the distortions are deplorable, for this Christ will not come at the end of your world as the prophecies have been maintaining.
 He will not come to reward the righteous and send evildoers to eternal doom. He will, however, begin a new religious drama. A certain historical continuity will be maintained. As happened once before, however, he will not be generally known for who he is. There will be no glorious proclamations to which the whole world will bow. He will return to straighten out Christianity, which will be in a shambles at the time of his arrival, and to set up a new system of thought when the world is sorely in need of one.
 By that time, all religions will be in severe crisis. He will undermine religious organisations – not unite them. His message will be that of the individual in relation to All That Is. He will clearly state methods by which each individual can attain a state of intimate contact with his own entity, the entity being to some extent man’s mediator with All That Is.
By 2075, all of this will be already accomplished.


…The third personality of Christ will indeed be known as a great psychic, for it is he that will teach humanity to use those inner senses that alone make true spirituality possible. Slayers and victims will change roles as reincarnational memories rise to the surface of consciousness. Through the development of these abilities, the sacredness of all life will be intimately recognised and appreciated.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Sena on May 13, 2016, 09:10:03 AM
Deb, I would be very happy for you to start a new topic on the future coming of Christ. This is where I found the quote (from "Seth Speaks"):
http://www.thenewgnosis.org/thesethiangnosisoldandnew.htm#Seth_on_the_%E2%80%9CSecond_Coming%E2%80%9D
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: BethAnne on May 14, 2016, 12:22:25 AM
future coming of Christ.
Do you think this personality will be a woman?  Maybe a film director?  Maybe the Matrix itself?
(https://media1.giphy.com/media/fXm3axbRDLBII/200_s.gif)
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Deb on May 14, 2016, 09:10:02 AM
Conversation moved from here:
Quote from: Deb (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=5827#msg5827)
the Christ personality

Although I'm the least religious person I know, the concept of the Christ Personality is very interesting to me in the Seth books. Maybe because of what I'd been taught in my childhood about the Christ, and Seth was finally explaining who and what this man was and why he's still such a hot topic. I'm looking forward to learning more about him, just as I want to more about who Seth is/was.

But I have to leave for now. This will give me plenty to think about today.

Update: I felt the need to add some quotes about the return of the Christ personality for background, explanation and reference purposes. The following are from Seth Speaks, Session 560:

(9:46) Your Christ figure represents, symbolically, your idea of God and his relationships. There were three separate individuals whose history blended, and they became known collectively as Christ—hence many discrepancies in you records. These were all males because of that time in your development, you would not have accepted a female counterpart.

These three individuals were part of one entity…. These three figures worked out a drama, highly symbolic, propelled by concentrated energy of force.

The events as they are recorded, however, did not occur in history. The crucifixion of Christ was a psychic, but not a physical event…

(9:55)

Each of the twelve represented qualities of personality that belong to one individual, and Christ as you know him, represented the inner self. The twelve, therefore, plus Christ as you know him (the one figure composed of the three) represented an individual early personality—the inner self—and twelve main characteristics connected with the egotistical self. As Christ was surrounded by the disciples, so the inner self is surrounded by these physically oriented characteristics, each drawn toward daily reality on the one hand, and yet orbiting the inner self…

The three Christ personalities were born upon your planet and indeed became flesh among you. None of these was crucified. The twelve disciples were materializations from the energies of these three personalities—their combined energies.

2nd coming: session 586

(9:10) The historical Jesus knew who he was, but he also knew that he was one of three personalities composing one entity. To a large extent, he shared the memory of the other two.

The third personality, mentioned many times by me, has not in your terms yet appeared, although his existence has been prophesied as the “Second Coming” (Matthew 24). Now these prophecies were given in in terms of the current culture at that time, and therefore, while the stage has been set, the distortions are deplorable, for this Christ will not come at the end of  your world as the prophecies have been maintaining.

(9:20) He will not come to reward the righteous and send evildoers to eternal doom. He will, however, begin a new religious drama. A certain historical continuity will be maintained. As happened once before, however, he will not be generally known for who he is. There will be no glorious proclamation to which the whole world will bow. He will return to straighten out Christianity, which will be in shambles at the time of his arrival, and to set up a new system of thought when the world is sorely in need of one.

(9:25) By that time, all religions will be in severe crisis. He will undermine religious organizations—not unite them. His message will be of that of the individual in relation to All That Is. He will clearly state methods by which each individual can attain a state of intimate contact with his own entity; the entity to some extent being man’s mediator with All That Is.

By 2075, all of this will be already accomplished…

the third personality of Christ will indeed be known as a great psychic, for it is he who will teach humanity to use those inner senses that lone make true spirituality possible…

Now there will be several born before that time who in various ways will rearouse man’s expectations. One such man has already been born in India, in a small province near Calcutta, but his ministry will seem to remain comparatively local for his lifetime.

Another will be born in Africa, a black man whose main work will be done in Indonesia. The expectations were set long ago in your terms and will be fed by new prophets until the third personality of Christ does indeed emerge.

From Rob’s notes at 9:37: There were three men whose lives became confused as the life of Christ… Each was highly gifted psychically, knew of his role, and accepted it willingly. The three men were a part of one entity, gaining physical existence in one time. They were not born on the same date, however. There are reasons why the entity did not return as one person. For one thing, the full consciousness of an entity would be too strong for one physical vehicle. For another, the entity wanted a more diversified environment than could otherwise be provided.

(“The entity was born as John the Baptist, and then he was born in two other forms. One of these contained the personality that most stores of Christ refer to… I will tell you the other personality at a later time.”)

9:57 The third historical personage, already born in your terms, and a portion of the entire Christ personality, took upon himself the role of a zealot….

The man, historically now, was Paul or Saul. It was given to him to set up a framework. But it was to be a framework of ideas, not of regulations; of men, not of groups. Here he fell down, and he will return as the third personality, just mentioned, in your future….

When the third personality reemerges historically, however, he will not be called the old Paul, but will carry within him the characteristics of all three personalities.

[Goes on to describe advances in humanity with the second coming…]

11:20 For several reasons, as mentioned by Rubert, I do not want to give any more detailed information as to the name that will be used, or the land of birth.

Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: voidypaul on May 14, 2016, 01:33:13 PM





     Hi Beth,
               the new Christ will be male . This society is not sufficiently advanced enuf to accept a woman , sad but true .  He will be a poor man, naturally , he is not here for the rich + famous except to kick their asses back into human gear. What on earth do you mean by Him being the matrix itself ? 


   Hi Deb,
          ''Although I'm the least religious person I know ''


   Yes i can understand your dislike of the run of the mill religions but do you understand the inner religiosity of the self ?


   I can hear you pulling at your hair + screetching , what the fck does he mean , this is a Seth site .  But my dear this inner religiosity exists in Seth himself + even Seth 2 hahahhahahahahahahahaha , i bet thats gonna fck with your mind but I'm going to be cruel + leave you to dwell on it for a while as i also asked this question of LenKop + i  want to hear his reply before i answer y'all + actually seeing that i have posed the question what do any of you think of my most far reaching statement hahahahehehehehehhohohohoho ??????? 


 the not so peaceful + stirring the pot , paul

Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Deb on May 14, 2016, 08:33:33 PM
Quote from: voidypaul (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=5861#msg5861)
   I can hear you pulling at your hair + screetching , what the fck does he mean , this is a Seth site .

:)

Au contraire (to quote the late but great George Carlin), stir the pot Paul as much as you can! And I'm not so much a reactionist as I am a considerer of others' viewpoints. I've sometimes been accused of not having much conviction. Maybe so. I prefer to think I'm open-minded. I'll consider anything, and keep or reject whatever feels right or wrong to my inner self.

My definition or relationship with the word religion is as limited as my gut reaction to the word "god" -- tainted by a lifetime of followers of organized religions trying to force their belief systems on me. I WILL dwell on what you set forth with the phrase "inner religiosity." (Please excuse the uniquely American use of quotation marks with punctuation.) I've been long-told that I'm a spiritual person, which to me means anything outside of (and sometimes, rarely in my experience, including) organized religion.

From Merriam-Webster:

Simple Definition of religion
      : the belief in a god or in a group of gods
      : an organized system of beliefs, ceremonies, and rules used to worship a god or a group of gods
      : an interest, a belief, or an activity that is very important to a person or group


It's the organized/group thing that bothers me.  They both smack of OLC to me.   
      
So, I'm looking forward to more of an explanation. I'll dream on this tonight. And I'll let you know how that goes.



Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: BethAnne on May 15, 2016, 07:11:50 AM
I'm an extremely positive person who has had to factor in the "negative" to balance out my child like naivete.  ;D I tended to view life through Rose Colored Glasses which put me into some dangerous situations.  There isn't a "devil or evil" in Christian Science.  As I get older my life has taken on a Fairy Tale quality which amazes the shit out of me sometimes it is so bizarre.  These "negative topics" on this larger scale have only really been in my face lately.  If anything, I have "curiosity killed the cat" syndrome.   ;D   The Theme lately seems to be about balancing Polarities which means "evil" has been in my face to deal with.  To transmute.  Transcend.  Transform.  My "job" seems to find that Sweet Spot of Perfect Balance.  :)
I'd be surprised if a Returning Christ would not be a woman.  Or more likely be The Sophia.  The lack of the Divine Feminine is (http://i510.photobucket.com/albums/s344/Elspeth_album2/SophiaAlexGrey.jpg)exactly why the planet politics is unbalanced and is in need of a woman's touch. 
 
As to the Matrix.  With our Mass Communications the Christ Consciousness could be portrayed in a movie with effectiveness as a real person.  It's a concept that needs to be addressed rather than a person per se.  Who would really believe if a Christ returned?
(http://cdn.phillymag.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/philly-jesus-apple-store-arrest2.jpg)
 
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: BethAnne on May 15, 2016, 07:19:59 AM
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/dd/8b/de/dd8bde778939efd691fdc31d2474361c.jpg)
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: BethAnne on May 15, 2016, 07:26:27 AM
(https://tobiasmastgrave.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/fairy-tales-zoom.jpg)
Fairy tales are inextricably linked to the work of Carl Jung. The “collective unconscious” that lies at the core of his work, and which he believed is shared by all human beings, is revealed through archetypes, forms and symbols found in ample evidence in fairy tales. Some Jungians argue that one reason fairy tales appeal to children is that they are in a stage of their development only slightly removed from deeper layers of the collective unconscious. Jungian therapists study fairy tales to help analyze the dreams of their patients. Jung’s disciples have gone on to interpret fairy tales as lives in miniature, suggesting, for example, that each character within a tale may represent an aspect of personality.
http://www.mccarter.org/education/secretinthewings/page16.htm (http://www.mccarter.org/education/secretinthewings/page16.htm)
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Sena on May 15, 2016, 09:43:57 AM
Quote from: BethAnne (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=5879#msg5879)
I'd be surprised if a Returning Christ would not be a woman.  Or more likely be The Sophia. 
Yes, I would be disappointed if it is not a woman. It would take a woman to shake up the old Pope and 2000 years of patriarchy.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Wren on May 16, 2016, 06:33:24 AM


Talking of women & Catholicism:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/16/pope-francis-is-a-master-at-playing-to-the-crowd-but-we-wont-get-female-deacons (http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/16/pope-francis-is-a-master-at-playing-to-the-crowd-but-we-wont-get-female-deacons)
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: BethAnne on May 16, 2016, 08:03:17 AM
Great find Wren!
Pope Francis seems like a nice guy, but in my humble non-Catholic Opinion I feel he is just a white wash to cover what the last guy did.
https://2012patriot.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/nazi-youth-pope-ratzinger.jpg (https://2012patriot.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/nazi-youth-pope-ratzinger.jpg)

Any belief system that excludes the Feminine is out of balance.
I think the Gnostics had it for the most part with their belief of Sophia.  The Church made sure they were pushed out in the Council of Nicea.  Religion went from communing with God directly to having to go through the Church Priests for a price.

The First Council of Nicaea (/naɪˈsiːə/; Greek: Νίκαια [ˈni:kaɪja]) was a council of Christian bishops convened in Nicaea in Bithynia by the Roman Emperor Constantine I in AD 325. This first ecumenical council was the first effort to attain consensus in the church through an assembly representing all of Christendom,   One purpose of the council was to resolve disagreements arising from within the Church of Alexandria over the nature of the Son in his relationship to the Father: in particular, whether the Son had been 'begotten' by the Father from his own being, and therefore having no beginning, or else created out of nothing, and therefore having a beginning.[11] St. Alexander of Alexandria and Athanasius took the first position; the popular presbyter Arius, from whom the term Arianism comes, took the second. The council decided against the Arians overwhelmingly (of the estimated 250–318 attendees, all but two agreed to sign the creed and these two, along with Arius, were banished to Illyria).  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea)
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Sena on May 16, 2016, 11:07:44 AM
Quote from: Wren (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=5895#msg5895)
Talking of women & Catholicism:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/16/pope-francis-is-a-master-at-playing-to-the-crowd-but-we-wont-get-female-deacons
Having male priests only is a fundamental principle of the R.C. Church. You might get married male priests 50 years from now, but a woman priest never. This is why I feel that Christ needs to return as a woman.

One possibility is that Jesus Christ was androgynous (both male and female):
(https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/s480x480/e35/12940780_991041020988931_1263642630_n.jpg?ig_cache_key=MTIyMjY0NTgxNzAwNTQ0MzU4OQ%3D%3D.2.l)
http://cbmw.org/uncategorized/reconsidering-the-maleness-of-jesus/

That article concludes is this way:
Quote
McCready's conclusion is fitting: "Rejection or reformulation of the doctrine of [Christ] would eviscerate Christianity. The result would be nothing like that which has grown and spread for nearly two thousand years." He adds, "Every distinctive Christian belief would have to be discarded, from the doctrine of God and a realistic picture of human sinfulness to the ethical expectations and promise of divine grace. The modern attempt to make Christianity relevant by removing one of its more challenging teachings would end by making Christianity irrelevant and even destroying it."

This is the real problem with Christianity, that it considers every human being "sinful at heart" right from the moment of birth. And this is what Seth rejects.

The Gospel Matthew 19:12 may be relevant:
"For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let the one who is able to receive this receive it."
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: voidypaul on May 17, 2016, 02:42:36 PM


     Hi Deb,
                George C always chose an apt turn of phrase .
                Always like the openess you display too Deb .

               Your definition of religion is i think pretty much the prevailing one of those  intelligent enough to question the current dogmas .

               Inner religiosity, which belongs inherently to the inner self or soul + i believe is inherent in all created beings,  be they phys' or not.   Even Seth 2  the non phys' non thought form entity who is the 'higher' self of our Seth , has his non thought non phys' 'form' of religion. Chortle .

               I think Merriam-Webster falls far short of a clear or even precise description of what religion really is, an entirely weak brew indeed   . Does'nt really get to the root of the matter does it.

               Why is the Christ personality returning to start a new religious drama ?  And if He is here to set straight or even trash the old religions then what is it that He will put in its place because its not going to be some sort of pseudo scientific claptrap either,  though i'm sure He will set the sciences straight too ,,, it may be quite sethian in some ways, but it will still be religious .
               If its a religious thing He's going to reintroduce then what is it that religion actually is?  if its going to be soooo good for the world ?

               S'cuse my ignorance Deb but what is OLC ?

               Religion , hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm . Nice i think ,  i have been brought to my knees + laid waste on the ground in dumbfounded incredulity at a true turn of religious humility  ...,,,   one cannot but submit or sublimate ....,,,,  even Seth 2 sings praises + submits , even the pyramid gestalts , it is ineluctable  ,   one must transcend all boundaries, there are none who can resist , it is always greater than any one being or even collection of beings can bear  .......................

               Deb, its the reason why it is best for many to join together , as more (of it) may be attracted + each indiv' portion or self in the whole will benefit from the more massive result or connection , much more so than they could on their own . It is (a) mystery revealed by the will of the people .

               It obviously depends on the sincerity + intention of those who take part + True religion is inextricably linked to true faith hahahehehoho ,,,,,,,,,,,  not just beliefs , big  wink  . Comes a time when beliefs get left waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay behind , oooops . Where a suspension of beliefs is by far the better belief to adopt .
 
               Not the snotty stuff we have been offered by our so called churches but,,,,,,,,,

               True religion ???
               True faith ???
               Sethian ???
               

               peace , paul



    Hi Beth,
 
                we ll i've obviously got the wrong end of the stick then hav'nt i my dear , my apologies .
                People have different ways they feel they can balance out the different portions of the self(s) they are  of course, +  i respect your chosen differentiation's  that help you  see things more clearly from your present point of view ,  i think it's an interesting take on your personality actually Beth , bravo . I live + learn of course.
               
               I think those people that will come to know the Christ will perceive that the Divine Feminine is easily apparent in Him Beth. 

                        Beth;       
                               ''As to the Matrix.  With our Mass Communications the Christ Consciousness could be portrayed in a movie with effectiveness as a real person.  It's a concept that needs to be addressed rather than a person per se.  Who would really believe if a Christ returned?''


               I have to disagree with you on the movie thing Beth , no picture or movie could ever portray with any effectiveness who + what you really are,   let alone the Christ + His Divine personality , not  possible really .
               Those who will  know the Christ Beth ,  will come to know + understand who or what He really is . I hope i am one of them . I don't think He will make His phys' form known to many but i would imagine that He will at times dive into the mass reality of the human race + make mass contact from 'there' + for sure the masses will be aware of Him. It is a part of the religious thing  + something that movies would flail in helplessness to duplicate, haha . Regardless of futuristic holograms or whatever they could'nt touch a fragment of the real thing , not at all . Why ?  I'm sure you can deduce that one Beth .


                       Beth;
                             ''Fairy tales are inextricably linked to the work of Carl Jung etc , etc .''



               Fairy tales from Jung eh Beth .

               The mass uncons' or collective uncons' is of course a reality + contains infinite fairy tales, not just the one's that may be associated with an individuals personal uncons' as with Jung , but the true mass reality of faeries (which are real beings that live between the worlds) + the tales too , that these little faeries tell about us, haha .         Jung took humanity closer to the true uncons' but he did not fully percieve the true inf' reality that lies there, just a minute part he put his name to , hehe.
               He knows more now of course , but then , now he is closer to the 'center' of the truly expansive uncos' + perceives more clearly . Don't know if he has had to pass thru his ultimate bottleneck of cons' but i would hope his more expansive awareness has taken him beyond that anyway . titter .

               Psychoanalysis has yet to grow up Beth + this Christ will definately iron out much of the old bull associated with it . The  sciences will obviously take a bashing as well as the religions  + He will usher in a new age of understanding of the self both phys' + psychically . No mean feat of course but is all a part of this new religion thing Beth.
             

                                         THE NEW RELIGION
 
                                            of
                                                  Christ
                                                               simple is'nt it ?


   peace , paul
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: voidypaul on May 17, 2016, 03:28:29 PM


    Hi Sena , interesting chat to start up .

                    We have to go beyond all of the claptrap of the old religions without exception .
                    In spirit or soul or inner self we are all androgynous  (sexual divisions came long after the 1st humans) + the Christ will make this clear .
                    Glad you put in the rejection by Seth of the ''original sin'' rubbish as quite the contrary is the case of course , we are all blessed from birth + eternally .
                    The new religion of Christ will be just that , NEW .
                    He will be a He + not a Her but He will make it absolutely clear that these designations are superfluous to the true self which is both simultaneously .He will show how to be as one with past lives both male and female . Probably He will take some to the source of sexuality , which psychically , is union with the divine .

            peace , paul

Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Deb on May 17, 2016, 09:37:16 PM
Okay, for starters I had to go back into the section of Seth Speaks dealing with the Christ personality to gather some quotes, and then lost myself in the whole thing. I've distilled what I could down to a manageable size and placed it within my first post in this topic (http://url=https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=5859#msg5859), if only to leave a breadcrumb trail for the uninitiated or those to come.

Quote from: voidypaul (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=5908#msg5908)
Why is the Christ personality returning to start a new religious drama ?

To fix things? Because we are asking for it? Because we're not progressing? Not meaning to sound trite, and no sarcasm intended, I think humanity has the propensity to move at a snail's pace and sometimes we need a brisk kick in the pants. Without handing answers to us on a silver platter, a new drama in order for us to work things out and redeem ourselves. Going back to the alien conspiracy theories: some (most) times we can't find our own way out of a paper bag, so aliens have to interfere every once in a while and hold our hands. And sometimes insert probes, lol. And with the description of the next coming, it could even be you. Except I'm not sure if you'll be around in 2075. I know I won't. At least not in this incarnation.

Quote from: voidypaul (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=5908#msg5908)
Deb, its the reason why it is best for many to join together , as more (of it) may be attracted + each indiv' portion or self in the whole will benefit from the more massive result or connection , much more so than they could on their own . It is (a) mystery revealed by the will of the people .

Yes @voidypaul , I wholeheartedly agree with the joining together aspect. One of my hopes when I started this forum: build it and they will come. I just wish we were all "more" and with less space between. The blessings of the internet I suppose, making the gaps smaller. I remember thinking when the internet became a "thing" that it was the cultural version of collective consciousness or The Field. I still feel that way.

Quote from: voidypaul (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=5908#msg5908)
Inner religiosity

Still working on internalizing "inner religiosity." Limitations of language and my own relationship with any word containing "religio" have created a small barrier for me. No worries, I'll work it through. For myself, I prefer to think in terms of spirituality rather than religiosity, where I consider spirituality as a reverence/respect for all of consciousness, without judgment or priority. No dogma at all but a way of living, loving, appreciating, respecting all that is (with lower case letters in this case).

Quote from: voidypaul (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=5908#msg5908)
               S'cuse my ignorance Deb but what is OLC ?

Sorry, Official Line of Consciousness. The version of reality agreed upon by humanity in order to maintain that seamless Mass Consciousness. The Box.

More to say about all of this soon. Getting ready for my Trip Of A Lifetime and my time is evaporating at an alarming rate. Not having as much time for the forum as I'd like.

Favor: I will bring one unread Seth book on my trip. Does anyone have a favorite to give me an idea what to bring? Beyond Seth Speaks, Mass Events, Seth Mat'ls? I have several unread books and am open to suggestions. If no suggestions, I will be left with the Eeeny, Meeny, Miney Mo method of selection. Not my preferred style, but with the Seth books I suppose I can't go wrong.

PS
@BethAnne the "aliens are taking me" meme was priceless!


Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: BethAnne on May 19, 2016, 08:04:42 AM
    Psychoanalysis has yet to grow up Beth + this Christ will definately iron out much of the old bull associated with it . The  sciences will obviously take a bashing as well as the religions  + He will usher in a new age of understanding of the self both phys' + psychically .

So much good stuff to comment on.  I totally agree here.

we ll i've obviously got the wrong end of the stick then hav'nt i my dear , my apologies .
To have  a conversation  on such a deep concept only through type to someone across the world, without being able to hear one's inflection or see their micro expressions, I wonder how much gets lost in translation!??   On the internet I edit quite a bit and use a lot of metaphor and my sarcasm doesn't always come through!   ;D  Nothing to apologize for.
Because I've had so many alterations to the mechanics of my brain I have to be aware of what level I'm speaking from. ;D  More than a few people have thought I was crazy! ;D  But now after all this time things are starting to pan out the way I explained they would. ;D ;D
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: BethAnne on May 19, 2016, 08:28:29 AM
Il baked all day yesterday and found I kept ponding on this thread, which I feel is the most important issue on the forum.  We can collect all the information but how to apply it in our daily life and the issues the planet faces.  Issues are pushing to be examined and dealt with.  Historically, when society gets to this boiling point a Christ figure shows up.  There has always been a Messiah who is connected to the Winter Solstice, born of a virgin and risen with 12 disciples.  So on a very basic level we are talking about a "seasonal change".  Easter comes from the Goddess Eostre and burying  eggs in the fields for fertility.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/easter1.htm (http://www.religioustolerance.org/easter1.htm)

It was a use of metaphor to say Christ will be in a movie....but I'm sure a Christ will use mass media.  How could he/she resist?   ;D  I'm guessing most of the misunderstanding over religion from people in my age (an age where people tend to be in charge...) comes from watching those great religious movies of the 50's.  How many people are subconsciously programmed to "see" Moses as Charlton Heston.?  Or Jeffery Hunter as Jesus in "The Greatest Story Ever Told"?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqCTq3EeDcY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqCTq3EeDcY)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5t9i4qowU7o (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5t9i4qowU7o)
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: BethAnne on May 19, 2016, 08:35:09 AM
I lost a friend after I showed her this clip.  She just couldn't conceive of anything beyond her traditions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fM78_ZEE-Os (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fM78_ZEE-Os)
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: BethAnne on May 19, 2016, 08:41:40 AM
The older I get the more I lean towards Gnostic thought, though I am still trying to wrap my head around it.  There may be a Christ figure but I believe "his" knowledge comes from the Sophia.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5A6Kbf-ocWk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5A6Kbf-ocWk)
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: BethAnne on May 19, 2016, 09:18:00 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Es5yBwOrLS0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Es5yBwOrLS0)
John Allegro was one of the original scholars who worked on the Dead Sea Scrolls......until he came out with his book.  He based his belief that Christ was a Sacred Mushroom after years of research.

"and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, "This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me."
1 Corinthians 11:24
"Keep me as the apple of your eye; hide me in the shadow of your wings"  Psalms 17:8
"For thus saith the LORD of hosts; After the glory hath he sent me unto the nations which spoiled you: for he that toucheth you toucheth the apple of his eye."  Zachariah 2:8

Snake = Spine/Kundalini
Apple of my Eye= Pineal often represented as a pineapple which the Catholic Church uses as a symbol.
Forbidden fruit = hallucinogenic, soma, mushroom, ergot

Ergot, similar to LSD, may have been what triggered the Witch Trials in Salem
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ergot (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ergot)

On a personal note, I've done mushrooms maybe four times but it has been quite awhile.  One experience explained it ALL.  :)
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: BethAnne on May 19, 2016, 11:57:43 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KP3KLK0cPCI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KP3KLK0cPCI)
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: BethAnne on May 19, 2016, 12:42:48 PM
This is why I think we are expecting The Sophia.  The Christ is the Consort to the Divine Feminine.

Many, perhaps most, Pagan religions in the Mediterranean area had a major seasonal day of religious celebration at or following the Spring Equinox. Cybele, the Phrygian fertility goddess, had a consort, Attis, who was believed to have been born via a virgin birth. Attis was believed to have died and been resurrected each year during the period MAR-22 to MAR-25.

Gerald L. Berry, author of "Religions of the World," wrote:
"About 200 B.C. mystery cults began to appear in Rome just as they had earlier in Greece. Most notable was the Cybele cult centered on Vatican hill ...Associated with the Cybele cult was that of her lover, Attis (the older Tammuz, Osiris, Dionysus, or Orpheus under a new name). He was a god of ever-reviving vegetation. Born of a virgin, he died and was reborn annually. The festival began as a day of blood on Black Friday and culminated after three days in a day of rejoicing over the resurrection." 3

Many religious historians and liberal theologians believe that the death and resurrection legends were first associated with Attis, many centuries before the birth of Jesus. They were simply  grafted onto stories of Jesus' life in order to make Christian theology more acceptable to Pagans. Others suggest that many of the events in Jesus' life that were recorded in the gospels were lifted from the life of Krishna, the second person of the Hindu Trinity, or were taken from the life of Horus, an Egyptian god.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/easter1.htm (http://www.religioustolerance.org/easter1.htm)
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: voidypaul on May 19, 2016, 04:12:40 PM


    Hi Deb ;

          I agree in large part with your initial comments but i think Seth said that this religious drama will more or less be completed by 2075 so it should begin some yrs before that .
          The whole point is , what do people think that Religion really is.
          Most folks don't even consider this but either slavishly give themselves up to the mainstream idea or if they have gone beyond the official religions , give it no further thought + see it as useless, as you sort of expressed in a previous post . Fair enough but the question still remains
                           WHAT IS TRUE RELIGION ?

         The joining together will be as you said , similar to

                    ''when the internet became a "thing" that it was the cultural version of collective consciousness or The Field.''

        but on a psychic level , + i'd imagine the Christ will have this ability , to delve into the collective uncons' + make contact from there .

        There is a difference between spirituality + religion in that even with spirituality one must have a connective principal between  all spiritualistic folks so that they can join together as ONE , + this is of course , RELIGION .
        Spirituality in + of itself has many different meanings to many diff' people but only True Religion has the unity that unites the differing forms . Which is in part why i say that it is the same (this true religion) for even Seth2 + the pyramid gestalts .

        Ahhh OLC , i see .

        peace , paul



   Hi Beth ;
           
            thank you for your understanding .

            Unfortunately again i will disagree somewhat , oopps .

            I'm pretty sure Christ will not use social or mass media to communicate His message . There will be no need to do so as He will be able to tap into the mass uncon' or mass cons' (whatever, its the same) so will not need the primitive forms of comm' we use today or will use in the future . In fact He will not want His phys' presence to be known to many for obvious reasons . Even though the Crucifixion was one of the main massive events in shaping humanity's history , i'm sure He will not want such a set of circumstances to arise again .

           I like the vids you post but they are pretty much superfluous to the Seth material or Christ . The gnostics sort of had it right but got caught up in the age old tradition of adding some sort of devil or dark force that we must fight with to regain control of our cons' .   Rubbish i'm afraid .
           If one takes just the positive aspect of gnosis , which is the searching inside of one's self for answers then yes i agree but the larger part can be dumped of course .

          Christ gets His knowledge from ATI + not some sophia, as nice a godess as she may be nor does He need some sort of a consort , He is the Christ , all is within Him , except ATI .   The older religions were simply that , older religions + cannot + do not supercede the Christ , they are all old hat to Him , He has been there before i assure you .

         And to imagine the Christ as some form of mushroom or whatever (as many as i have had) is just sheer pollyanna , but an entertaining concept .

          These hallucinogenic drugs most definitely have their use if used properly, but in our culture that is few + far between . They are after all just a springboard into other realms of reality + one must then try + emulate such exp' without them , hence yoga + meditation + Seth .

          I don't want you to think that i disagree or whatever with your ways of divining the truth as you do in your video forays Beth but it is best to remember that they are generally  only less than half truths + one must separate the chaff from the wheat so to spk after one has watched these things .

          When i said in my last post ,  ''Regardless of futuristic holograms or whatever, they could'nt touch a fragment of the real thing (Christ), not at all . Why ?  I'm sure you can deduce that one Beth .''   
         
          Were you able to do the deduction or come to any conclusion as to why no modern or futuristic forms of communication could equal the power + effectiveness of the Christ ?


          peace , paul
         
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: BethAnne on May 19, 2016, 07:38:49 PM
Oh Paul!  I came for the debate and knowledge.   :)  I HATE when people tell me what they think I want to hear.
Peace to you also,
Beth
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: voidypaul on May 28, 2016, 09:41:33 PM


   Hi BethAnne ,
                        thought i would't leave you in suspense about what it is that will be so much more convincing about the Christ personality than any film or hologram could ever be + that is of course ,
that the information that He will impart will strike a chord WITHIN the hearts + souls of the race + not be something that particularly comes from an exterior source , totally different thing all together .
                       And all of these plaedians or whomever are also here to witness the re-emergence of this superlative personality as it is known by all of them that He is beyond even their own understanding + connectedness .

                   more peace , paul
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: John Sorensen on May 29, 2016, 03:29:25 AM
I could be wrong, but I feel its a mistake to wait around for any savior type personality to come and help us or solve our problems for us. Some groups have been waiting for over a thousand years for such figures, I have a hard enough time waiting for a bus.

It's the continuation of needing an external agent or authority figure to take the place of our parents.
Religious stories are nice, and often full of inspiration etc, but the growing up of humanity and continual expansion of perspectives of all that is through human beings is not dependent on such figures.

If anything, religious figures need us to tell their stories and dramatise them and reinterpret and reinvigorate them, otherwise they are just kind of boring individuals, without us mythologising them they are nothing.

So any Christ or similar figure has the power which we give it, or invest into it.

Consciousness being formless, shapeless and timeless has no need of vessels deemed more "special" than other vessels. Being everywhere at everytime then means that consciousness, or any stories told or reimagined, religious or otherwise means that Christ or other figures are eternal archetypes, who are updated every now and then by the storytellers.

Whether Osiris, Moses, Krishna etc, it's not a matter of who got there first, or who told which version of the story first, it's a matter of service, of consciousness taking on whatever attributes needed to better remind people of their own inherent divinity and stop giving away their power to idols of any sort.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Deb on May 30, 2016, 08:03:07 AM
Quote from: voidypaul (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=6069#msg6069)
the Christ personality

Can anyone explain to me why the "Christ" personality?
I know Seth talked about the Christ and how he was more than one being (three? too big a personality for one human to bear), but when I read about that all I could think was that Jane's religious background of Christianity (the holy trinity) was mucking up the non-biased communications of Seth. Why labeled Christ personality, where there were so many other larger-than-life religious icons than him? Was the Christ name used out of convenience and recognition?

Quote from: John Sorensen (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=6070#msg6070)
I could be wrong, but I feel its a mistake to wait around for any savior type personality to come and help us or solve our problems for us. Some groups have been waiting for over a thousand years for such figures, I have a hard enough time waiting for a bus.

Yep, the return of the "Christ" personality just seems so Christian to me.


Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: John Sorensen on May 30, 2016, 12:58:22 PM
The Christ Entity would be an easier way of saying it.

The entity incarnated into three simultaneous personalities (one was Christ, one was John the Baptist, I forget the other, perhaps Peter or Saul?) who each did their part in playing out the religious drama intended to shake people up.

In some systems its said there were actual physical incarnations, while in other systems they existed as a story, the story took on more "life" then in some systems than any purely physical beings ever could.

They each did their part in the play/ act of the Christ drama, which was one telling / retelling of the same timeless tales of consciousness, spirit, god etc, that was unique to the times it appeared in. Often we look back at different eras and totally miss the meanings of such dramas, as we have lost the common social context, both the literal and symbolic meanings of the drama and the Christ Entities purposes, which were multidimensional.

The continued focus on the drama is partly due to the proliferation of Christendom, but on larger world stage these types of dramas have been going on through all recorded history in all societies and cultures, but the details may be dramatically different.

A voodoo based culture for example would have very different figures from a Greek culture, who would have different figures from say hunter gatherer cultures who lived without the written word etc, and had a more direct understanding and perception of reality / the immediate environment that required very little use of symbolism, which seems strange to us when out culture has gone to extremes, where virtually everything we encounter on a daily basis is a symbol of one type or another. The corporate use of Sigils for example is rampant everywhere.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: voidypaul on June 01, 2016, 07:54:16 PM


    Hi John , Deb ,
                   

                   The thing about the Christ is that He is in some ways bought into existence by the needs of the peoples + times they live in , pulled out of the mass uncons' , +  now is such a time .
                 
                   maybe try + think of this Christ not as some archeological timepiece  as is understood by mainline Christianity but in terms of a an advanced Seth who is reincarnating + is here to help us . Even Seth has said that Christ  has abilities that he still does not have , so He would be a boon to humanity , especialy to those who meet or come to know Him .

                   I would have loved to have met a phys' Seth + would have loved to have him teach me what he knows + be all the more pleased by his physicality because i'd know he aint going far + that i would meet him again + again if poss' , to help me expand my  knowledge + consciousness.      greedy piggy me .

                   Christ in the most simple terms is just a somewhat wiser older more expanded personality than Seth is  that's all .

                  He will have greater powers of communication than Seth , with some He will have direct telepathic + psychic contact , He will be able to commune mind to mind with those close to Him. It may be like a vivd dream or inspiring thoughts come clearly to the surface of cons' but it will be the Christ who is in these vivid dreams + images + He will have something to say directly to each indiv' + to all collectively .
                 What He says will unquestionably affect the deepest portions of an indiv's cons's + move people to come together in a cause that will hopefully unite all of humanity in a common goal , + yes it will have deep relgious significance too but will go beyond the religions as we know them .
                 Religion is simply the whole or mass of the people having a common knowldge of their origins + knowing the freedom of their immortal souls ,  coming togeher to add their energies in trying to attract or bring into phys' reality , the reality of the 'prescence' of GOD or ATI  + the whole of the universe will open up  + they will see 'God' + percieve Him in themselves + everything + this will be a mass , shared + personal indiv' experience wherin unconsc' knowledge becomes cons' + all dreams + incarnations + all entities are glimpsed for  certainly a  mystical moment or two in time . 

                I think that so many people tend to project the old picture of Christ onto the new Christ but He will be a v different personality with a much more 'advanced' story to tell . More Sethian than official religion , + He will meld the apparently opposing belief systems of science + religion , intellect + intuition  into one psycho/physio/religious/spiritual philosophy + experience , + stress the importance ,uniqueness + eternity of each indiv' cons' + nothing will be left out .   

                Seth has said this personality is alive now but He is not 'awake' or aware of who He really is  +  that His work will be more or less completed by 2075 . I'd love to meet Him + ask Him a question or two. But fck knows where or when He will make an appearance , Seth was quite tight lipped about this + rightly so , wish i could have asked Seth a few questions too haha .

                So for sure some of us might well come to hear what He has to say + just importantly how He says it , as it will come as inner as well as outer messages + be unmistakably the real McCoy , so to spk' .

               I mean , why the fck did the folks of old become so convinced of the rightness of what Christ or Buddha or whatever 'prophets' there were , had to say ?
              many of these people were not fools or savages , but highly intelligent competent independent personalities who could spot a faud if they had to . I think if you or i John were to meet such a personality i'm more than sure we would both not be fooled or hoodwinked by any pretense , but similarly , i'm sure that if this personality were in His awakened state we would also be just as aware that we were in the prescence of an extraordinary personage indeed.
             
            Seth has said that Christ was able to project/produce a psuedo/physical manifestation of Himself to some of His disciples + communicate to them whilst He was in fact somewhere else entirely + i'm sure Seth aint bull'g when he says this . Fck , i wish i could do that ....      Aware of all of His incarnations + ours too i'd imagine , aware of the infinite realities that coincide with ours + the numberless beings within them , aware of the infinite probable realities in each moment + hand it to us on a plate so to spk to see if we can digest it ...  He will be something, someone extraordinary .

              A lot of what has come down to us may by now be full of gibberish because of the inevitable manipulations + misinterpretations but the origional experience + message must have been most compelling + moving to the people of those times to inspire them to create such a thing as a new religion or  understanding of  communion with ATI + themselves (+ all things)  as One .    A  mystical union .  An experience He may well be able to impart .

             You know , things like that , things that will quite frankly blow our tiny minds , of course , + of course it seems to be something of a mystery to most what on earth this all might consist of or how it will come about but i think there are many clues in the Seth works themselves about the potentials of the true inner self + the entity , for us to be able  to imagine a 'future' personality with abilities we can only dream of right now ,a personality we might percieve in the teachings of Seth + Seth 2 .  And of course , once again (+ i know i yabber) this Christ will be more than this because He will have at 'times', a direct contact with ATI , + that will undoubtedly totally infinitely fck the minds of all who are present at such an ineluctable , transcendent moment .     

            You get the drift by now i suppose . yabber,yabber,yabber .

               voidypeace , paul
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: John Sorensen on June 02, 2016, 05:54:14 AM
People have been saying Christ is going to appear "now" for the last 2000 years.

Why are you saying he is coming now etc?

My prediction is 1000 years from now people will still be saying it.

And if a Christ figure did appear, I'd wager it would impossible to prove who or what it is, given we live in an age of scientific scepticism.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: voidypaul on June 04, 2016, 02:54:36 AM


    John S ;

            People have been saying Christ is going to appear "now" for the last 2000 years.

Why are you saying he is coming now etc?

       
  Hi John ;

            Because i have had some 'help' from the Christ entity in my OOB experiences so i am aware that this personality is 'close' to this reality + within it in phys' terms, which is why i hope to come face to face with Him in the not too distant future + also because i have the greatest respect for Seth + what he had to say + of course he has said that now is the time + in fact has stated that He is alive now , but is not yet awake or aware of who or what He really is .

           
       My prediction is 1000 years from now people will still be saying it.

And if a Christ figure did appear, I'd wager it would impossible to prove who or what it is, given we live in an age of scientific skepticism.

 
  paul ;

         I'd also wager that you are some sort of a scientific or intellectual skeptic yourself John as in your posts you seem to have a paucity of mystical experience or understanding just as the so called scientists do .
     
         Also you refer to Christ as an it , haha , rather an obviously derogatory term that a scientist would use .   Have you ever had an OOb exp' John or any kind of mystical exp. at all ?

         As i have said , this Christ will be an exceptional personality + will be able to communicate on an inner personal + mass level with indiv's + humanity as a whole , do you not see the mystical nature of such unusual communication ?  Or do you ignore it deliberately so you can continue with your skepticism ?  You obviously do not understand what true religion is as yet + because of your closed book stance it may be unlikely that you would allow yourself the pleasure of such contact or exp', just as the scientists do .   Scientists by en large are shallow + critical when it comes to mystical exp' or miracles as they are known , because they are somewhat deluded by their scientific arsehole intellectualism + cannot see further than their own asses even tho proof has been offered up so many times + even tho they understand such a minute fraction of the Real reality .

       Have you ever had faith in anything John ? I don't particularly mean religion , which is in a terrible state right now but in your your own immortal + eternal soul + that you could do things that you have only perhaps dreamed of or wished were true ?

      Your attitudes to incarnation are poor for a sethie mate + maybe you are not v well read but Seth continually asserts this reality but you have missed it somehow + seem to denigrate the idea from your posts but strangely in others you have a begrudging acceptance , you are a complicated person + if i might say a little confused about your spirituality , does it embarrass you to be spiritual ?

      peace , paul
     
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Deb on June 04, 2016, 03:48:03 AM
Quote from: John Sorensen (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=6114#msg6114)
People have been saying Christ is going to appear "now" for the last 2000 years.
Why are you saying he is coming now etc?

Maybe because Seth said this, which tends to catch our attention? Certainly more specific than what Christians have been saying for a couple thousand years. Seth say "by 2075" means things could already be in the works, the personality could currently be here in material form, but like anyone else of significance may not be recognized for who or what he is until later on or even after death. Especially if he has no idea of who/what he is himself.

Quote from: Deb (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=5859#msg5859)
By 2075, all of this will be already accomplished…

But I do have a question about this, which is so far the only place it seems to me that Seth has contradicted himself so far in my reading:

Quote from: Deb (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=5859#msg5859)
(“The entity was born as John the Baptist, and then he was born in two other forms. One of these contained the personality that most stores of Christ refer to… I will tell you the other personality at a later time.”)

Paul has mentioned this and I remember reading it myself. Two of the entities were John the Baptist and the one labeled Jesus, the third may have been Saul/Paul. But then Seth says this?!?

Quote from: Deb (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=5859#msg5859)
The third personality, mentioned many times by me, has not in your terms yet appeared

He also makes the 12 apostles sound like they were aspects of the central CP (oversoul?).

Quote from: Deb (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=5859#msg5859)
Each of the twelve represented qualities of personality that belong to one individual, and Christ as you know him, represented the inner self.

So it sounds to me like the "return" of the "Christ Personality" (which I am interpreting as a spiritual guide rather than specifically who we consider the actual man Christ--maybe the name "Christ" which is not a name but actually a label--was used by Seth because of he was the most recent/recognizable spiritual treeshaker) is coming now or soon or has recently been material in order to kick ass. Or more gently, to give us a little bit of a push in the right direction, as we seem to have gone off track with spiritual expansion.




Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: BethAnne on June 04, 2016, 09:26:45 AM
 Especially if he has no idea of who/what he is himself.
Can you imagine having to deal with this?  If you were the supreme being on the planet who would you have above you to tell you?
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Deb on June 04, 2016, 03:09:00 PM
Quote from: BethAnne (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=6124#msg6124)
Can you imagine having to deal with this? 

My mind always goes back to the Matrix, what a pertinent movie. Neo not knowing who/what he was, the Oracle keeping her mouth shut, Trinity... Art imitating life? Eventually he figured it out.

Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: BethAnne on June 05, 2016, 11:35:38 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ejaw0F8-sY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ejaw0F8-sY)
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: BethAnne on June 05, 2016, 05:38:14 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5A6Kbf-ocWk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5A6Kbf-ocWk)
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Sena on June 09, 2016, 09:26:57 AM
It could be that Christ will come spiritually rather than physically. It could happen, for instance, that those who follow Seth's principles may develop the power of healing, and that could be a manifestation of the Spirit of Christ. This healing could range from the healing of individuals to the healing of the Planet.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: BethAnne on June 09, 2016, 12:23:16 PM
I agree with you Sena.  Maybe that is already happening?  Is that what we are all feeling?  It would have to be an amazing physical person to transcend all the religious division of the world.

I posted in the dreams about a series of dreams two weeks ago with the last one I could physically feel my body being jerked forward that left a shadow of ash that hung in the air for a few seconds.  My girlfriend said she had some weird sensations the same day.  We have both noticed in ourselves and others a "higher" response to situations.  Maybe that is what we are looking for?
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Sena on June 09, 2016, 12:48:23 PM
Quote from: BethAnne (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=6181#msg6181)
It would have to be an amazing physical person to transcend all the religious division of the world.
Yes. If I understand Seth correctly, physical reality is "camouflage reality". It may be a mistake to have high expectations of an amazing physical being suddenly appearing. It would be like the Jews waiting for the Messiah to appear.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: BethAnne on June 09, 2016, 07:15:15 PM
Isn't that exciting though knowing that something/someone is going to show up that is totally unique. 

Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Sena on July 08, 2016, 12:54:51 AM
"The male aspects of Christ were the ones that Western civilization emphasized. Other portions of his teachings did not follow the main line of Christian thought and were buried.
The church ignored Christ's physical birth, for example, and made his mother an immaculate virgin, which meant that the consciousness of the species would for a longer time ignore its relationship with nature and its feminine aspects. I am speaking now of mainline Western civilization. God the Father would be recognized and the Earth Goddess forgotten." (The “Unknown” Reality: Volume One: A Seth Book in Two Volumes).
In Google Books: http://tinyurl.com/male-aspects-of-Christ (http://tinyurl.com/male-aspects-of-Christ)
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: sethspeaks on July 09, 2016, 02:34:22 AM
I think that the third personality should have the following basic characteristics:
The True Dream-Art Scientist /session 700/
The True Mental Physicist /session 701/
The Comlete Physician /session703/
or session704
Title: The crucifixion story
Post by: Sena on July 09, 2016, 11:38:21 PM
"The Crucifixion story represented, in your terms, now, the self-destructive aspect of the species at the time. And it represents the self-destructive elements of the species in this time for those who still accept it.
'Many religions set up their methods and their dogmas, offering the hope of great knowledge, great understanding, and wisdom. There is only one catch: You must die first!...Some of the basic tenets of Christianity were good, But for all of that, you still have the story that when you suffer and die you will go to heaven, gain knowledge and beauty and truth, and escape this ‘vale if tears.’"
(With kindly humor:) "Think what might have happened, and think how your religious books might read, if the myth read differently. Supposing the story read thusly: Christ was not crucified at all. He was not persecuted. He was not chased. He was not scourged, and no one gave him vinegar to drink. Instead, they handed him purple robes, set him up in state at Rome, called him the Christ, the Son of God, but said that the kingdom of God is upon the earth, and salvation is now. What would the priests do? For indeed, knowledge and joy and salvation would be within your grasp. Many religions believe that you must go through trials or walk through fire first. Now, in your terms, that is certainly the most severe trial of all. And a poor way to prove faith. For if you believe in life, you prove your faith by living it. You dare love it. You do not need suffering or trials....' "

Page 203 The God of Jane

From http://www.imaginenolimits.com/SethQuotes2.html (http://www.imaginenolimits.com/SethQuotes2.html)
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: sethspeaks on July 11, 2016, 02:07:03 PM
"What so many want is a God who walks down the street and
says,“Happy Sunday, I am I, follow me“. But God is hidden craftily
in his creations, so that he is what they are and they are what he is;
and in knowing them, you know him."

ss, esp class session june 23 1970
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: BethAnne on July 12, 2016, 09:19:02 AM
you suffer and die you will go to heaven, gain knowledge and beauty and truth, and escape this ‘vale if tears.’"

There is a lot of BS that the Old Priest spun in the Bible but it also holds hidden truths.
I don't think suffering is necessary but it does come with the life you are born into, the distorted beliefs and dogma of family, state and culture.  You have to "die" to those illusions and  one's personal bs which reveals "heaven".
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Sena on July 24, 2016, 09:15:05 PM
This is the view of "Elias":

"The Christ entity – what is the Christ entity? In actuality, you do not hold a definition for the Christ entity. You hold speculation. You hold theory. You hold ideas/opinions of what this may be, but you do not look to the designation of the Christ entity, so to speak, as you look to a wall within physical matter and express to yourself, ‘This is a wall. These are the properties in physical matter of this physical wall. I may identify in physical objective terms what this object is.’ You identify the Christ entity as if it is an object, a manifestation, a thing, but you do not identify what this thing is.

I express to you that the Christ entity – or the thing of the Christ entity – is a symbol. It is what you present to yourselves as an explanation or a symbol, a figurehead, a focal point of a movement of energy which may be identified in the manifestation of an individual or of one essence manifest into many individuals. What be the difference? It is merely a difference in terms – once again, our term of terms! (Grinning) And...."

http://www.eliasforum.org/digests/Seth_Jane.html

From the Seth audio collection:

"But behind and within those myths are the realities of your being - the Christ and the Buddha are both within you, for they are symbols of what you are. Pray to them and you pray to the hidden gods within you. You do not need to kick them aside like a child irritated with his toys!"

http://www.sethlearningcenter.org/q_god_religion.html
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: sethspeaks on July 27, 2016, 01:52:17 PM
I think Elias is abortive copy of Seth.
For me Seth is God's voice.
And the difference is noticeable.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: BethAnne on August 13, 2016, 01:33:50 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyXwz3C25WA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyXwz3C25WA)

I'm just throwing this out there for consideration.  Who really knows??  I do sense that the gal on the right is "true".  Her name is Kim Babcock and has her own site. 
The Gal on the left was raised atheist and the Erik she is having channeled is her son who committed suicide.  What struck me was that regarding Jesus, so many people have the Christmas Story stuck in their heads and are looking for a literal story line while Kim is trying to explain the spiritual concepts.   
Example.  A circle is a geometric shape...a dinner plate...a clock shape....OR a Circle as a symbol means so much more on a grander scale.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: JimK on August 13, 2016, 02:39:55 PM
I can sense the sincerity/love factor with Kim. The other gal, I get...picky,picky,picky. Just my impression. For me, I think I've got enough explanation through Seth. And, again, that's just my thoughts.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: BethAnne on August 13, 2016, 04:12:31 PM
I get the same impression for both of these gals.  I sense the gal on the left is sending out a disruptive frequency with her expectations.
And Yes, my baseline is Seth. 
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Sena on August 29, 2016, 12:29:00 PM
This is what Kryon says about Christ and Buddha:
"The idea of accepting the redemption of what took place on the cross doesn't even relate to the real purpose of the master of love, who was the Christ. That entire scenario was created later from a false assumption, and did well for those who would control the population with religion (which history will show they did). The Buddha (Siddhartha) also has not had his full true passion revealed. The teachings of both were sequestered early on, and revamped to suit the needs of those who would be in control of the teachings."

"The above information may sadden you, but be aware that you can "tap" in to both of these great masters anytime you wish. And when you do, you'll discover that the truth is the same. The ultimate liberation for all beings is within you. You're eternally assured of peace with God because you are a piece of God. Even the master Christ told you that you could be exactly like him... a son of God."

http://kryon.com/inspiritmag/archives/Q-A%20archives/2003-Q%26A/Q%26A-4thquarter.html#18
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Batfan007 on August 29, 2016, 07:09:05 PM
Despite the distortions, those message are still there in the creatively "edited" bible books that exist today.
and those same ideas are backed up by the Nag Hammadi  and Dead Sea Scrolls which have been translated over several decades and are now easy available to the public along with various commentaries, and textual comparisons with different sources, notations of difference and similarities.
The later organised Church and the Romans were incapable of truly stamping out the power of Jesus's message(s), such is their resonance that his frequency is symbolically anchored here in our world for anyone to tune in to.

Heart of Christ
Heart in Christ

I've been meditating on those two phrases this week, both lead to a direct experiential insight into (one of) Christ's teachings. Particularly when contemplated with readings of the Gospels etc.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: sethspeaks on September 07, 2016, 02:12:54 PM
"(11:52.) One of the Gospels is counterfeit — that is, it was written after the others, and the events twisted to make it appear that some of them happened in a completely different context than they did. Regardless, Christ's message was one of affirmation.
(Jane, in trance, paused as I looked up questioning. "I was going to ask which Gospel is counterfeit, because we're sure to get letters about that. ")
It was not Mark's or John's. There are particular reasons why I do not want to specify now."
The Nature of Personal Reality, p.417,418

I think that it is Luke's.
Title: The return of Christ personality: It's all of us
Post by: Deb on September 08, 2016, 07:53:38 PM
It seems the Christ personality has already returned. It's us, according to this book I've just started reading. Sorry for the lengthy quotes. I actually could have added much more...

The Book of Knowing and Worth: A Channeled Text (https://books.google.com/books?id=iQiQlQLtIH0C&pg=PT9&lpg=PT9&dq=introduction+the+book+of+knowing+and+worth&source=bl&ots=0UbH-u2X2Z&sig=RWy6dcNUy17DKVQHGTPffwzflrU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiE09H-h4HPAhUB4iYKHaLcCLcQ6AEIODAC#v=onepage&q=introduction%20the%20book%20of%20knowing%20and%20worth&f=false)
Paul Selig
From the Introduction (Day 1):

The aspect of the Divine that you are and have always been intended to be has come forward to be renamed: "I know who I am, I know what I am, I know how I serve." And the claim of this, as you create from it, expressed as you, culminates in a new awakening of your own being through the manifestations of the self as the Christ.

Now we don't mean this in a heretical way. We mean this is in the most truthful way available to you. The aspect of the Creator that maybe manifested in form is how we talk of the Christ. And the Christ as you, as you, as you is the teaching of this text. Can man be Christ? Man is Christ but has not awakened to it. The awakening that we speak of is the inheritance of the Creator born in each and every individual awakened to his own worth, to her own worth, as a manifestation of the Creator in form.

I know who I am, I know what I am, I know how I serve. And as I sing, I know. And as I know, I incarnate as my true self. And the true self I speak of is the Christ in manifestation as man.

You are worth what you say you are. You always have been. If you say you are worth two dollars, you will call yourself two dollars; you will claim two dollars and not a penny more. When you know you are the Christ, the aspect of the Creator that may be in form, by the level of knowing and design and creation that is available at that level of consciousness, you claim your identity in a new way and your world, your world, your world will reflect this.

Now Paul is wondering, are we telling mankind that they are the Christ? And yes, we are. But you have not known the magnificence of who and what you are because you have not been attuned to the possibility that it can be so. It has been made so already. The way was shown to you many times, but what you have done as a civilization is adhere to paradigms that will tell you this cannot be so. You relinquish your authority, you each relinquish your authority every time that you agree that you are small, that you are dominated by a structure that must know more than you.

Everything you see before you, everything you see, you have agreed to. Do you know this? Everything on the self of your cabinets, everything on the street, everything in the sky you have agreed to. It could not be there if it was not agreed to by you collectively and individually we will say, because the individual is an aspect of the collective whole.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Sena on September 09, 2016, 03:15:48 AM
Quote from: Deb (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=7107#msg7107)
It seems the Christ personality has already returned. It's us, according to this book I've just started reading.
This fits to some extent with the one quote from St. Paul which impressed me:
"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."

I would take out the phrase "I am crucified with Christ" - it may be a distortion added by the Church grandees.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians+2%3A20&version=KJV
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Batfan007 on September 09, 2016, 03:17:12 AM
I've already posted this article elsewhere, but it's on a similar track so may be of interest to people:

Did Jesus Really Exist? Christ Consciousness as Mankind’s Natural State

https://seedsofinfinity.wordpress.com/2015/08/26/did-jesus-really-exist-christ-consciousness-as-mankinds-natural-state/

A sub topic to that post was covered in this article,

I AM GOD – The God in You

https://seedsofinfinity.wordpress.com/2015/07/03/i-am-god-the-god-in-you/


Which is an article on Seth topics, that also incorporates ideas from Wayne Dyer and the Hebrew sacred names of God.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: sethspeaks on September 10, 2016, 12:19:41 AM
I think that All That Is is like an organism.
As hair on head is part of body as man is part of All That Is.
It is my opinion.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Sena on October 15, 2016, 08:01:32 AM
https://youtu.be/pmWk9ttLX3I

Christ the extraterrestrial?

http://www.jesuswasaspacealien.com/
Title: ET
Post by: Deb on October 15, 2016, 06:28:57 PM
Quote from: Sena (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=7481#msg7481)
Christ the extraterrestrial?

I believe it. Totally.  :o

I do have to admit some of the art in the video made me wonder what all that was about.

Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Sena on October 15, 2016, 11:00:10 PM
Quote from: Deb (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=7488#msg7488)
I believe it. Totally.
Deb, I think this version is more likely to be true than the BS put out by the Christian Church - That human beings are irredeemably sinful from birth and only the death of Christ could save them.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Deb on October 16, 2016, 08:01:27 AM
Actually I was kidding. I realize that web site is satyrical, made by Noodle Muffin (http://www.noodlemuffin.com/), to quote them, "Noodle Muffin is an underground, Indie band known for their biting samples, eclectic sound, catchy melodies, twisted, humorous lyrics, and brutal commentary on the absurdity of the Mass Media and American society." They have a new song out, "Morning in America." It's about the election 'Trump: Make America Hate Again!'

But yes, I agree it's no less believable than what we've been told by organized religion. I like Seth's version the best.

Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: JimK on October 16, 2016, 10:25:17 AM
I've got agree. I like the Seth version better too.

I do have to admit though that there are certain parts of my Catholic and New Thought background that I find I'm reluctant to give up. Such as certain elements of prayers of gratitude and The Five Denials stated in Scientific Christian Mental Practice. Thus far, I see that simply as an individual matter of choice and not in opposition to what Seth had to say. I could be off base, but it seems okay to me.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Deb on October 16, 2016, 02:06:40 PM
Well gratitude can only raise your vibration and draw more good things into your life, whether it's law of attraction or the power of the mind creating things.

What are The Five Denials?
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: JimK on October 16, 2016, 03:37:45 PM
I agree, gratitude has really worked, particularly in my general outlook. And the Five Denials have worked great wth that too. I'll try to attach a snip of them.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: voidypaul on October 17, 2016, 12:39:39 AM
 The Christ will teach the individual to get in touch with his own entity, which as Seth says is to some extent his mediator to ATI.
   
   The entity or inner self is that being who has complete knowledge of all incarnations + is in fact the creative aspect that gave birth to the individual self as it is, in (any) physical reality.

   If you have contact with the entity then you will know all of the incarnations of which you have been a part, + if you are lucky , of which you will be a part.

   And yet the entity is more than this as it also has its non-physical existence which is closer to ATI + is aware of itself as a self cons's that is a part of action + part of the true identity which is a part of ATI (see the 3 dilemmas). 

   As physiclly oriented beings with an ego we are to some great extent seperated from our entitys + ATI because we imagine ourselves to be the initiators of action + seperate ourselves from the events that we percieve + imagine that we have initiated.

   As Seth says, we , because of our seperation (our ego's) , have to be spoon fed little bits + pieces of reality which we can then organise into the realities that we then experience thru our beliefs of what we think is or is not possible. 

   If you have read your Seth then you will know that the ego + its qualities is in fact a creation of the body cons' as it strove to maintain its stabilty as a being apart from the simultanaeity of true reality, which then became the dreaming self , + which again the ego imagines it has itself created, haha.

   The ego has yet to grow up + become aware of itself as a part of the entity + a part of action itself. This is why the Christ will return , to help us overcome the rampant egotism that views itself as the initiator of the action + dependent only upon itself . We are all dependant beings , if the entity or ATI were for a one moment to withdraw its support (its creation of us)  we would not be existent at all. 

   The Christ entity is a reality who had its first experience as a part of the first creation of ATI , which is why He is said to be the son of God, He has direct contact with ATI.

   All of the other channels are like a bubble gum pop to the ego , only Seth , who channelled his work from Seth2 demands that one gives a more serious consideration to reality as it is not just the flowery airy fairy aspects that enchant + entrance so many.

    regards, paul
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: JimK on October 17, 2016, 07:27:48 AM
Quote from: JimK (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=7494#msg7494)
We are all dependant beings , if the entity or ATI were for a one moment to withdraw its support (its creation of us)  we would not be existent at all.

@voidypaul That's kind of a curious thought. I've been in contact with my entity and am told/made aware/informed that it has never withdrawn it's support of it's creations...causing non-existence. nor would it consider such an action.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Sena on October 17, 2016, 08:43:24 AM
Quote from: JimK (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=7501#msg7501)
That's kind of a curious thought. I've been in contact with my entity and am told/made aware/informed that it has never withdrawn it's support of it's creations...causing non-existence. nor would it consider such an action.
Jim, it is the teaching of the Christian church that we are all dependent beings. That is one of the beliefs that I am trying to question. It is true that all consciousness is inter-dependent. All That Is depends on us.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: JimK on October 17, 2016, 11:56:37 AM
Quote from: Sena (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=7502#msg7502)
it is the teaching of the Christian church that we are all dependent beings. That is one of the beliefs that I am trying to question. It is true that all consciousness is inter-dependent. All That Is depends on us.

Sena, I understand what you said and I am in complete agreement.

Sometimes I do have a difficult time understanding what is being said or meant and so I get off track. And sometimes semantics drives me completely crazy because there's so many words that are equal/equivalent/inter-changeable/similar/etc - inner self, higher self, soul, over-soul, entity - just to cite A Few. Sometimes it seems like the list could go on and on forever. Thanks for the assist!
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: voidypaul on October 20, 2016, 05:30:03 PM

   Hi Jim , yes its a curious even alarming thought + although it is true , i agree with you + your entity that ATI's support  will never be withdrawn + all universal manifestations go out of existence, not in the sense that it is being used here anyway.

   i have mentioned b4 that there are other mystical concepts such as the Hindu Pralaya in which their supreme being, similar to ATI , after a great cycle,  sort of wraps up or withdraws its creation(s) from material manifestation , + returns all being(s)  to their basic non physical cons' + holds them in a sort of stasis or nonbeing , in their potential state until He reawakens them to restart creation again. Sort of like ATI nodding off for a while .   I believe that Seth has somewhere mentioned such a concept tho i could not tell where.

   Hi Sena ,  yes the Christ did teach of our dependency as we are all dependent upon ATI for the continual simultaneous creation without which we would never be existent . As Jim says above it is unlikely that ATI would ever withdraw His support, but support it is + this is the reason (or one of them) that all being sing the praise of this Divine + ineffable being .It is a true inner relgious sense (this recognition of dependency or support from ATI) that is inherent in all being , but not as present religions would have it.

  Yes of course you are right Sena , we are all inter-dependent as we are all made up of the cons units that Seth spks of , + alltho i agree in some sense that ATI is dependent on us to create ever new eccentric versions of Himself , ATI is in no way dependent upon any part or portion of its own creations for His own reality or existence as HE transcends all of it without exception . The dependence always works the other way around + we should be thankful for that as our own bodies + even our own minds + free will are  gifts so that we can be who + what we wish to be.

  There is also nonbeing , in Seths terms , a state in which all probabilities + possibilities of cons' are blocked from expression (a very difficult concept even for sethies to digest) . Similar to the pralaya state + Buddhist Jhana/Nirvana .It is a condition wherin the self can go 'back' to its primal potential state b4 any sort of manifestation .It is a potential CU before its actualisation . i call it the pure void state of cons' , or nonbeing/suspension .     

  regards, paul
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Sena on October 20, 2016, 09:51:42 PM
Quote from: voidypaul (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=7521#msg7521)
ATI is in no way dependent upon any part or portion of its own creations for His own reality or existence as HE transcends all of it without exception
Paul, I think you may be confusing ATI with the Jewish/Christian God. The Jewish/Christian God is a subordinate being who went off at a tangent. It is interesting that you use the word "transcends". The concept of the transcendence of God is a concept used by Christian theologians to hammer opponents into submission. I understand ATI to be immanent and not transcendent. I go with Giordano Bruno and Spinoza. Bruno was burnt at the stake for his beliefs. I think he was one of the black sheep of the universe described by Seth (I am not saying that Seth specifically mentioned Bruno).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immanence

Peter Skafish in his PhD thesis on Jane Roberts, highlights Jane's understanding of ATI as being purely immanent:

"Roberts’ own understanding of “God” and “being” as laid out in chapters two and three is certainly
immanetists in this sense: beyond treating the divine as something inextricable from actuality and thus
undoing its traditional status as a transcendent origin
, Jane also refuses to treat “spirit” or “spiritual
consciousness” (terms she adamantly believes in) as coming prior to actuality and phenomenality. Actualities
and temporal presences are not derived from the “potential field” she often speak of; intead, they and this field
are mutually constitutive of each other, and are within a sphere that, as we saw her say in chapter four, has
“no outside.” In this sense, she is a Spinozist and/or “immanentist” in her vernacular ontology, and is
referred to as such throughout this chapter." (I think this refers to Chapters two and three of "The God of Jane", a book which I have not been able to obtain)

http://digitalassets.lib.berkeley.edu/etd/ucb/text/Skafish_berkeley_0028E_11602.pdf

Regards, Sena


Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: JimK on October 20, 2016, 10:05:10 PM
Quote from: voidypaul (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=7521#msg7521)
there are other mystical concepts such as the Hindu Pralaya in which their supreme being, similar to ATI , after a great cycle,  sort of wraps up or withdraws its creation(s) from material manifestation , + returns all being(s)  to their basic non physical cons' + holds them in a sort of stasis or nonbeing , in their potential state until He reawakens them to restart creation again. Sort of like ATI nodding off for a while .   I believe that Seth has somewhere mentioned such a concept tho i could not tell where.

Hi Paul - thanks for your followup and clarification and expansion. It's really quite interesting. I'm looking forward to doing some research on the subject of ATI and cycles of creation and/or re-release, if I'm getting the concept right.
Title: Earthworm’s eye view - Eben Alexander
Post by: Deb on October 20, 2016, 10:40:10 PM
Quote from: voidypaul (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=7521#msg7521)
ATI's support  will never be withdrawn

I’m behind here, admittedly. Wanted to respond to this line of thought a while ago. In my mind, if we are ATI and ATI is us, then ATI’s support can’t be withdrawn, can it? Withdrawing support of ‘us’ would be withdrawing support of itself— all that is. It’s not possible.

Quote from: voidypaul (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=7521#msg7521)
There is also nonbeing , in Seths terms , a state in which all probabilities + possibilities of cons' are blocked from expression

Eben Alexander (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eben_Alexander_(author)) is a neurosurgeon who had the most improbable case of meningitis (caused I think by E.coli bacteria, just about impossible). He was in a coma (probably should have died), made a complete recovery and later wrote a book about his near-death experience. I actually got to listen to him speak at that same off-beat church (http://www.milehichurch.org/) where I’ve seen people like Deepak, Joe Dispenza, Elizabeth Gilbert, Brené Brown, a few others (lucky, lucky me!).  Eben is very low-key, well-spoken, convincing.

Anyway, your comment sparked a memory of one part of his experience which I could not understand. Of course, how he describes his memories are how his brain interpreted what he experienced, inaccurately since there are probably no words or other experiences for him to form an explanation of what he says he witnessed.

So, here goes:

“The first thing I remember deep in my coma was this expanse, I was ...it was as if I were underground or in more accurately, I think, kind of in very dirty jello because I had this sense that I could kind of sense what was around me going out many feet. But it was all very dark and murky. At no point did I have a body image at all. This was just awareness of being in that realm. It was very kind of coarse, murky, kind of a dark reddish brown if anything. It was very foamy and kind of bubbling. In kind of later stages I would even remember faces, generally kind of unrecognizable animal faces that would kind of boil up out of it and then some roar or chant and then they would go back into it. And there was a pounding machinery type sound that was deep beneath. And I remember a very strong sensation of roots, of black, kind of itchy, tickly roots around me, too, so it was very much like being underground. And again, a lot of it was just like being in this mass of dirty jello where I couldn’t really see very far. I often liken it to looking out a window on an absolutely pitch-black night in a pouring rainstorm with water streaming down the windowpane and trying to make out what is outside. It was...Nothing was in focus. Even though I had no language and no words, I do remember having this intense curiosity. You know, what is this? And there would never be any answer, never any response, never anything. It’s like I didn’t exist in terms of responsiveness. And that went for a very very long time. It had a very foamy kind of quality to it, kind of  bubbling and murky and part of how I put that together when I was writing it all up was that that was the fact that my memory formation was not working very well at all. And my best interpretation of that whole realm which I call the earthworm’s eye view is that it was the best consciousness that my brain could muster when it was soaking in pus. That was the very best I could come up with. I felt like I was in that realm for months or years. It was very long because I had no memory of anything before. No memory at all. Zero. Words, concepts of humans, earth, this universe, you know, family, all that kind of thing ... totally gone. There was none of that.”


Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Sena on October 21, 2016, 03:38:23 AM
Quote from: Deb (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=7531#msg7531)
In my mind, if we are ATI and ATI is us, then ATI’s support can’t be withdrawn, can it? Withdrawing support of ‘us’ would be withdrawing support of itself— all that is. It’s not possible.
Deb, you have put it in a nutshell.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: voidypaul on October 22, 2016, 02:14:55 PM
 Hi Sena ,
                  I don't think so Sena , no confusion here.
                  I understand your condemnation of the jewish/christian god as it is used in your example to pummel the nonbelievers into submission etc but in some things they were right Sena, + this is one of them . The Christ did pass on much valid information , tho so much has been distorted.
         
       I don't yet have the quotes from Seth to hand (+ lord knows i wish i had but im not the encyclopedic type) so you will have to wait for them for the while. But my reading of Seth is that ATI is both immanent + transcendent , or one would have it as the scientists do , that there is a creation out of nothing + this is not so.

       The transcendent portions of ATI are exactly those ones that brought about the creation to begin with.
       There is always that portion of ATI .         
       All of the dreams + imaginings of ATI (us, His creations) took place in an area of cons' that was, is , + allways will be beyond time + space  + beyond any + all creation or manifestation of any universal system whatsoever + so , is , transcendent .

       Seth has said many times that no one creation can hold or contain the unendurable reality of the whole of ATI, it is not possible. So there will always be that portion which does not or cannot be manifested + this also is the transcendent ATI.     See the 1st dilemma .


       Seth has said that ''ATI lost a portion of Himself'' when He gave actuality to His dreams but it was just a portion, not the whole , the other portions of ATI being those transcendent ones . 
       

       Seth also mentions a made up word of his own , the ''extral'' value which is that portion of the whole or apparent whole , that is more than the sum of its parts , ATI being the ultimate in those terms , the ultimate in transcendence .

       Actually there are numerous examples which i will find reference for you in good time . All of this obviously means that you + i + all other beings are also transcendent of course .

       As for Mr Ska-fish, (i like a bit of ska myself) he has his opinions (which you nessisarily quote only in part) but which i personally think on reflection of the whole of the Seth material , are misguided + innacurate tho in his narrow terms from the quotes given , i can see where he might be coming from , but his opinion is only partial + in my opinion untrue to Seths complete teachings .
       It must be added that neither Jane nor Rob completely understood the Seth material so Jane was allways going to misinterpret things + say so, like she hated the idea of reincarnation + it took Seth quite a while to get her to understand , let alone accept it as fact. So not all that she said can be taken as gospel , so to spk.


            regards , paul
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: voidypaul on October 22, 2016, 03:30:35 PM
 Hi Jim ,
                 my pleasure mate + yes you do have the concept right . I love this subject , its the most mysterious of all + tho i have no great knowledge of other mystery schools , i was most struck by the Hindu pralaya / Parabrhaman + before Seth came along they were the only other terms (besides the immaterial jhana/nirvana of the Buddhists)  i had found that correlated with my void states of cons' .    The Hindu's go a little further than most Buddhists in that they posit an immaterial creative force (an ATI) out of which all other manifestation was dreamed into existence in divine fact (b4 the creation).     

                Even some of the scientists (mostly theoretical) expound a cyclic or multidimensional universe(s),  but are way off the mark as they do not grant cons' to it . The scalar field + the vairying depths or conditions they accord to void (or vacuum as they like to call it), are all fine + dandy but again , no cons' there , nothig , nix , nada .... silly billys.   But then they mostly still believe in the BB , which is poppycock , naive + childlike.

                In my view ATI is a bit of a misnomer in some ways as , yes , ATI is all that is but He is more than all that has come into or will come into creation or being .     
                Unless you add to the Is part of the equation, that portion that is more than the sum of all creations (on whatever level) + is therefore transcendent , then ATI only or simply stands for all of manifest or actual creation + one forgets those portions which have yet to come into being , as there is always the intro' of something new + which has never before existed , as Seth says .   

                The cosmic egg , parabarhman/pralaya , jhana/nirvana , void + nonbeing (Seths + mine) , have all got one thing in common + that is the existence of a force or being that is beyond all designations or attempts to categorise or classify it because it is the source out of which they come , + so , is ''greater'' than all of them . The transcendent ATI .     One thing i must always repeat is that nonbeing/void/pralaya + nirvana are not , nonexistence . They are states of total + utter tranquility + quiessence , of absolute nonduality .
 
                Seth + many others have made great attempts to describe that which is actually indescribable + forever dumbfounds the intellect .
                He came close when descibing this in dreams evolution of the ''before the begining'' , the 1st creation + void + also the undifferentiated states or levels + of course Seth2 . But even most sethies think that there is something tangible or manifest that they can hold on to when the read + imagine it . But it is the invisible + non manifest states we are talking about here + not something that can be imagined by man even in his dreams . Even Seth has said that one must go completely outside of the universal system in which he has his manifestation to experience such things, but it can be done as it is inherent in all beings from atoms to molecules etc , etc .

                Like Seth talking about (or for actually) Seth2 who has never been physical nor a part of our manifest universal system + yet sustains it + has seeded it ,ie, the Seth we know . If Seth2 exists in a dimension in which thoughts + feelings + images as we know them do not exist (+ would be a hinderance if they did) , then to human cons' there seems to be no existence, but that is simply a lack of peception + knowledge of true/real reality , which exists in terms of intensities + not in terms of time or space or thought forms .

                Best wishes in your searching Jim , paul



Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: voidypaul on October 22, 2016, 05:21:01 PM
 Hiya Deb ,
             I do + don't agree with you but i think you somewhat confuse designations here Deb.

             We are a part of ATI , we are not ATI , if we were then we would not be here now as we are. 
             I would agree that we are all ATI in the sense that we all have the potentialities of our maker but they are mostly just that , potentialities.
             i also  agree that we are all made up of the same stuff as ATI + that we are ATI in form + being , divine fragments indeed but only fragments , + not the whole .

             We did not bring creation into being from a non physical (no time or space) but divine + simultaneous subjective source , only ATI did this.
             We do not even know how our own human bodies are brought into existence + sustained nor how even our slightest thoughts come from the realm of the invisible into the visible (or unknown reality as Seth puts it) , it is all given to us.

             It can rightly be said that in a qualitative sense we are all the same as ATI + equal , as we are all made up of the same stuff or issue of ATI, but then so is an ant or puddle or flea.   
             Buttttt , in a quantitative sense , meaning the real or true knowledge + base/experience , we have yet to get to know our true inner selves/entities let alone a non phys' being such as Seth2 or going further , the pyramid gestalts , so on that level we are tiny little fragments indeed + in no way equal to ATI whatsoever.
       
             If ATI withheld His support , which He could , tho He would not , not one iota of reality would remain .
He sustains us , we do not sustain Him  .
             The only circumstance where ATI did or does in some way withdraw His support is when He created nonbeing + when He reabsorbes all of reality after a great cycle of manifestation , but this nonbeing exists only in relation to His created progeny + not to ATI Himself even tho He too slumbers .

             I understand how much Seth stressed that we have a part in all realities at all levels but this is merely intellectual supposition on our part until one has an OOB or expansive experience of some sort + then we think that yes maybe we have had an experience of the divinity within us but it is allways fleeting + always there is more to learn + exp'.

             Only ATI has all knowledge at all times (+ outside of time) .

             ATI does cyclically or periodically reabsorb all of His creation back into Himself + sleeps or rests.
             I really don't give 2 hoots about what anyone may think of such a reality + if ever i come across Seths remarks on the subject i'll let you know .

             This reabsorption , for the created beings ,  of whatever import , from their perspective is as if they are in a state or condition of nonbeing , not aware of themselves or of any thing . Perception has ceased . As Seth says , all of the probabilities/possibilities of cons' have been blocked or are in suspension . This is nonbeing , it is a realty , a divine fact + cannot therefore go out of reality or become nonexistent .

             Nonbeing is not nonexistence , it is existence that has been suspended , not able to express any prob' or poss' of its own cons' whatsoever . It is more than asleep as there is no perception no dreams , but it is Held in the bossom of ATI as the potentiality of the coming ''new'' creation .
             Nor does nonbeing mean the anhilation of individuality . As simlpy as can be put , nonbeing is a deep dreamless sleep in which there is no perception or memory of perception + yet one will awaken + remember who + what he is + where he is as an indiv' being .

              Only ATI can reawaken this dreaming faculty after nonbeing + bring all of creation back into the reality of divine fact . As ATI awakens so all other forms of cons' start to reawaken .        No other created being can do this , not even the pyramid gestalts .  Nonbeing is truly a sacred mystical state .

              There is only one reality of nonbeing , created by ATI to ''hold'' all of His dreams ,  all of the myriad forms of cons' that existed in Him as divine fact (meaning you + me etc)  , in ''suspension'' whilst He agonised in His searching for the means to be , or , actualisation , + indivdual freedom . Without the safety cushion of nonbeing + suspension ATI could not be free to persue His agonised + contracted yearning , as His own dream creations would have suffered intolerably + would  have faced an almost certain insanity .

              Because nonbeing is a reality of divine fact , it can be revisited by the little fishes that like to swim upstream + back to the source , so to spk .  These little fishes obviously come back with some pretty wierd stories to tell as i do with my void states of cons' , but there you go , thats what you get for sticking your neck waaay outside of time + space +  thought forms .   

              One of the rewards of entering into this state is that by + by , after having been reawoken , so to spk , one will come back into the universal system in which he has his phys' manifestation by way of ''a moment point'' in the creation of that univ' sys' , which means that one will be aware of the spontaneous present of all of the multitudinous systems which belong to that univ' sys' , be they of dreaming realities , phys' materialisations or of the gods or pyramid gestalts associated with that sys' , this includes all of the realities in which Seth has his reality + more .

              Again nonbeing IS NOT NONEXISTENCE , it is ''mediated'' by ATI , so that the indiv' beings , tho not aware of themselves and in a suspended + potential form ,  still yet exist in + as a part of ATI as divine fact .         
              This is the one + only reality of nonbeing , its quite magical really , the ultimate free lunch .
             

              I've seen Eben's you tube production of his nde , pretty cool for a neurosurgeon but simply a 1st step into the greater reality of the soul  .  But what a breakthru for the scientific community if only they would listen . One's 1st time is always a little bit confusing tho always felt as a huge breakthru , which it is for any indiv' . A bit like sex really .


              my best wishes little Bee , paul

Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Deb on October 22, 2016, 09:46:48 PM
Quote from: voidypaul (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=7544#msg7544)
             It can rightly be said that in a qualitative sense we are all the same as ATI + equal , as we are all made up of the same stuff or issue of ATI, but then so is an ant or puddle or flea. 

Yes, I understand what you’re saying… We are a part of ATI. We are a part, not the whole, of ATI. Just as each cell in my body is a part of me, is me, but is not the ALL of me. As is above, so is below.  All of my cells are part of my greater whole, as I exist now in this body.  And yes, I don’t know how my body came into this existence (aside from basic reproductive understanding, which only glosses over and ignores the finer details), but then neither does ATI as far as I’ve read.

But then my feeling is I cannot consciously withdraw support of even one cell in my body any more than ATI can withdraw support of us. And do the cells in my body sustain me, or do I sustain them? Or is it the old chicken and the egg debate? In this 3D physical existence, I suppose I can withdraw support of my whole being (such as in death) and in the process abandon each cell. But… are they truly abandoned? Because their energy and consciousness continue on, in a different form…

Quote from: voidypaul (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=7544#msg7544)
             Nonbeing is not nonexistence , it is existence that has been suspended , not able to express any prob' or poss' of its own cons' whatsoever . It is more than asleep as there is no perception no dreams , but it is Held in the bossom of ATI as the potentiality of the coming ''new'' creation .

Sorry to keep going back to Joe Dispenza, but I love the guy and for a mere mortal he has a lot of this figured out. Or at least, he’s a deep thinker and tries to relate his own thoughts to the rest of us. His definition of Nonbeing is the quantum field of potentials/possibility. Sometimes when I contemplate it I simplify it to being the world of Lego parts. The building blocks are all there, neutral, pure potential. To be assembled or created into reality by conscious intent or desire.

A few days ago I was trying to explain to a VERY good, longtime friend how happy I am that we don’t know ‘it all.' Surprising to me (I don't know why I was surprised), she asked why. My answer was that my whole life, I felt/knew there was more to reality than what I’d been told and when anyone of authority (religion, science, medicine) says “these are the answers, it’s definitive, we don’t need to explore this any more,” it makes me very suspicious . What I’d been told throughout my life has always seemed so final, boring and most of all LIMITED.

Quote from: voidypaul (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=7544#msg7544)
 
He reabsorbes all of reality after a great cycle of manifestation

That feels to me like a natural cycle or recycling.

Quote from: voidypaul (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=7544#msg7544)
 
             ATI does cyclically or periodically reabsorb all of His creation back into Himself + sleeps or rests.

As is above… la la la  :)


Quote from: voidypaul (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=7544#msg7544)
 
            Again nonbeing IS NOT NONEXISTENCE ,

I see it as getting dismantled and dumped back into the big box of Legos. Not nonexistence but instead being broken down into the basic parts (consciousness units) to be reassembled into something new and exciting.

Quote from: voidypaul (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=7544#msg7544)
 
But what a breakthru for the scientific community if only they would listen .

Yes, with Eben, as with anyone else who steps outside the Official Line of Consciousness, he’s been subjected to the scrutiny of people who say he’s a complete quack just looking to make a fast and easy buck.

Thanks for the heady thoughts and explanations. I have to say it was a “kick in the arse” to meet up with you in London (or thereabouts).

As an aside, I’ve been trying to be a bit more consistent in promoting this forum on Facebook. My goal is pretty easy on me at this point: just post once a week on FB a portion of a topic here, with a link back to this site.

Today I went wild and decided to pay FB to promote this topic: a whopping $5.00. I don’t know what got into me, lol. Curiosity, I guess. Well, so far, not much of a reaction. The only comments were from some guy in Texas that included the words “antiChrist” and “complete bullshit” and someone else saying “this is completely messed up.” Why is it only the Christians feel the need to comment? But, it was worth the $5 just for that!

BTW if anyone here is on FB and has not yet Liked our page, please do so! We just passed the 100 Likes mark, I’d love to reach the 150 mark at some point.

Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Sena on October 22, 2016, 10:27:30 PM
Quote from: voidypaul (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=7542#msg7542)
But my reading of Seth is that ATI is both immanent + transcendent , or one would have it as the scientists do , that there is a creation out of nothing + this is not so.
Paul, if Seth said that ATI is transcendent (which I am pretty sure he did not), it knocks out much of his other teachings. For instance, creating your own reality. If there is a transcendent ATI, whenever you want to create something you have to kneel down and ask ATI to do it, or at least ask the permission of ATI. I cannot recall anything like this in the Seth writings.

In the second part of your sentence, you seem to be saying that if ATI is not transcendent, then it follows that we have to believe in creation out of nothing. I don't think that follows at all. My understanding of Seth is that consciousness has always existed, and physical reality arises out of consciousness. There is no need to postulate a transcendent ATI to account for creation.
Regards, Sena
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Sena on October 22, 2016, 10:38:28 PM
Quote from: Deb (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=7545#msg7545)
Today I went wild and decided to pay FB to promote this topic: a whopping $5.00. I don’t know what got into me, lol. Curiosity, I guess. Well, so far, not much of a reaction. The only comments were from some guy in Texas that included the words “antiChrist” and “complete bullshit” and someone else saying “this is completely messed up.” Why is it only the Christians feel the need to comment? But, it was worth the $5 just for that!
Deb, thanks for this. I have no hesitation in liking that page:
https://www.facebook.com/SethJaneRobertsForum/

I don't like some of the comments: "Than this being the Anti-Christ. What a crock of shit." ;D
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Deb on October 22, 2016, 11:19:34 PM
Quote from: Sena (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=7547#msg7547)
I don't like some of the comments: "Than this being the Anti-Christ. What a crock of shit."

Thanks Sena. Somehow I knew I could count on you. :)
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: JimK on October 23, 2016, 10:08:42 AM
Quote from: Deb (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=7544#msg7544)
Today I went wild and decided to pay FB to promote this topic: a whopping $5.00. I don’t know what got into me, lol. Curiosity, I guess. Well, so far, not much of a reaction. The only comments were from some guy in Texas that included the words “antiChrist” and “complete bullshit” and someone else saying “this is completely messed up.” Why is it only the Christians feel the need to comment? But, it was worth the $5 just for that!

Go, Deb, Go! That was a good one. lol  And the answer to your question is...because you're rocking their boat...or beliefs. That's my guess anyway.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Deb on October 23, 2016, 04:05:59 PM
Hah, thanks Jim! I'm a real trouble maker. It's also probably why I get frisked at airport security so often. ;)

Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Sena on October 23, 2016, 09:52:53 PM
I found this quote in Nature of Personal Reality, which I think supports my view that, according to Seth, All That Is is immanent and not transcendent:

"Seth, session 674: "Now: In those terms you are the power of God
manifested. You are not powerless. To the contrary. Through your being
the power of God is strengthened,
for you are a portion of what He is.
You are not simply an insignificant, innocuous clump of clay through
which He decides to show Himself.

You are He manifesting as you. You are as legitimate as He is. If you
are a part of God then He is also a part of you, and in denying your
own worth you end up denying His as well.""

https://beta.groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/AngelsAndUs/conversations/topics/12697?scrumb=MIDmJwHLTnk

http://www.execonn.com/matt/Docs/SETH99.htm

http://tinyurl.com/not-a-clump-of-clay   (Google books)
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: voidypaul on October 24, 2016, 04:07:45 PM
Hi Deb,

       you said ; ''We are a part, not the whole, of ATI.''

       paul     ;   yes you have it clear here .  We are divine fragments with the potentiality of the whole but the full potential is kept hidden from us as we are only just learning the basics at the level we are on .
                      What do you mean by   '' but then neither does ATI as far as I’ve read.''  don't think I've got your drift on this one my busy little bee .

       Deb    ;   But then my feeling is I cannot consciously withdraw support of even one cell in my body any more than ATI can withdraw support of us. And do the cells in my body sustain me, or do I sustain them?

      paul    ;    You are right , you cannot cons' withdraw your support from even one cell as it is the inner self that does the creating on this level . The cells sustain us as a whole phys' unit but we also give to the cells the love + dreams of human cons' that they could not get otherwise in their journey into greater forms of being , like us . The atoms  are a part of energised cons' + so are independent in themselves. The non phys' self creates atoms out of the pure energy available to it but it was the cons' units that first dreamed up the atoms  which then dreamed up all of the myriad forms that were poss' or prob' . The atoms were once a part of the divine syntax , as Seth so eloquently says , the energy out of which all of the cons' dreams of ATI were brought into divine fact (b4 creation) .
                 Energised cons' is in some important respects  quite different to psychological cons'  + as Seth has said human charcteristics come not from humans but from this energy , that became manifest b4 humans or any other phy' forms . 

     Deb    ;   I suppose I can withdraw support of my whole being (such as in death) and in the process abandon each cell. But… are they truly abandoned? Because their energy and consciousness continue on, in a different form…

    paul    ;   its not that you withdraw support insomuch as you do not act as the organising principle that holds them together , + when you leave the phys' field , you set them free + adopt another form + they also adopt other forms . Nothing ever dies .

    Deb    ;   Joe Dispenza, His definition of Nonbeing is the quantum field of potentials/possibility
     
    paul   ;   i think he's close but grasping at straws here i'm afraid .
               if all of the prob' + poss' of cons' have been blocked/suspended then of course joe's assumptions are absolutely incomplete , at least as far as Seth + i are concerned . He is trying to make associations that cannot poss' be true to nonbeing .  It would more true to say that the quantum field of potentials/possibilities is a portion of the reality of the cons' units .

   Deb    ;   That feels to me like a natural cycle or recycling

   paul   ;   yes it is Deb , putting it as simply as can be .

   Deb    ;   I see it as getting dismantled and dumped back into the big box of Legos. Not nonexistence but instead being broken down into the basic parts (consciousness units) to be reassembled into something new and exciting.

   paul   ;   V v very close Deb , but nonbeing comes b4 the formation of the cu's . Even void or the unendurable mass , comes b4 the cu's , which were released + brought into existence via that 1st primal void.

   Deb  ;  “antiChrist” and “complete bullshit” and someone else saying “this is completely messed up.”   

  paul   ;  Good luck to Eben , i like him .
            A soft kick i hope madam .
            Yep you get all the loopy loo's come out to play on FB.   Fundamentalists , christian or otherwise are of course deluded + should never be listened to but their opinions can be quite hilarious + easily ripped to shreds , as long as they dont know where you live .

           Oh yes , b4 i forget , here is a quote i found that illustrates the dependence of us created beings on the inexhaustable , infinite energy of ATI + most certainly not the other way around.

           The Seth Mat' chp' 18 pg 245

           '' .....  You not only draw upon this overall energy but you do so automatically since your existence IS DEPENDENT upon it . ''  my caps .   If one can poss' ovecome the egotistical flaws + to accept one's dependence , then one is released from the burden of creation in ways quite difficult to put into words . Its a little like the freedom you gained when you said  ''how happy I am that we don’t know ‘it all.' Surprising to me (I don't know why I was surprised)''

          peace , paul



Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: voidypaul on October 24, 2016, 04:56:25 PM
Hi Sena ,
          you said ;  Paul, if Seth said that ATI is transcendent (which I am pretty sure he did not), it knocks out much of his other teachings. For instance, creating your own reality. If there is a transcendent ATI, whenever you want to create something you have to kneel down and ask ATI to do it, or at least ask the permission of ATI. I cannot recall anything like this in the Seth writings

  paul   ; 
            Seth also says that ATI is omnipotent + that we (all of creation) are dependent upon His Divine energy , see above quote .

             As i said in my last post Seth has also said that ATI is more than its parts (any + all of them) so what is this if not transcendence ?  If ATI is omnipotent , + more than the sum of its parts + that all being(s) are dependent upon Him , then again i ask you , what is this but ATI's transcendent nature ? How can He be all these things (or qualities) beyond any or all of creation + not be transcendent ?       
              So pray tell me Sena why would the reality of ATI's transcendence '' knock out much of his other teachings. For instance, creating your own reality. ?  He gave us all free will if you remember your Seth correctly .

            Why do you have to add ''whenever you want to create something you have to kneel down and ask ATI to do it, or at least ask the permission of ATI.'' ?   Seems nonsensical to me Sena . I get the feeling that the church did you a grave disservice in some way my friend but you dont have to throw the baby out with the bathwater so to spk .

 Sena   ; 
           In the second part of your sentence, you seem to be saying that if ATI is not transcendent, then it follows that we have to believe in creation out of nothing. I don't think that follows at all. My understanding of Seth is that consciousness has always existed, and physical reality arises out of consciousness. There is no need to postulate a transcendent ATI to account for creation.

  paul   ;
            If ATI was existent b4 the creation (+ in fact had to go thru an agonised searching b4 He could bring about the creation) then again i say to you that He is transcendent . If ATI were not existent b4 the creation , then what else is there but nothing ?
            He is the cons' that dreamed all other cons' into divine fact b4 He even brought them into manifestation . We are a part of His creation but He is more than all of creation .
            You or i were not allways existent , ATI created us . When Seth says that cons' has always existed He means that the cons' of ATI has always existed + because we are a creation of ATI , in that sense it is true we have always existed but you must be careful to make the differnce between yourself + ATI because He created you + all things + you DID NOT .
            Tame the ego my friend + give credit where credit is due .

            I would suggest a thorough reading of Dreams Evo' etc ,     in particular the chapter 1 , Before the beginning .

           Also you later posted ''I found this quote in Nature of Personal Reality, which I think supports my view that, according to Seth, All That Is is immanent and not transcendent:''

           Yes i agree that this does show His immanent quality but you seem to forget that all of creation is only a portion of ATI + not the whole .

           Also in Ths Seth Mat' chp 18

                                       Seth        '' ... It (ATI) must release the creatures + probs' from Its dream . To do so would give them actuality . However , it also meant ''losing'' a portion of Its own cons' ,,,, etc .''

                          also,      ''To let them go was to loose that portion of Itself that had created them .''

                          +      ''ATI therefore , lost a portion of itself in that creative endeavour.''

              So Sena , can you not see that all of creation is only a portion of ATI + not the whole + that what ATI did not ''loose'' is that part that is forever transcendent . Or did the church mess you up so much that you cannot see what is before your very eyes ?



       peace , paul
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Sena on October 25, 2016, 07:59:18 AM
Quote from: voidypaul (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=7570#msg7570)
The Seth Mat' chp' 18 pg 245

           '' .....  You not only draw upon this overall energy but you do so automatically since your existence IS DEPENDENT upon it . ''  my caps .   If one can poss' ovecome the egotistical flaws + to accept one's dependence , then one is released from the burden of creation in ways quite difficult to put into words .

Paul, thanks for finding that quote from The Seth Material. I agree that entire passage is quite important. I think I can see roughly where you are at. I am at present not conscious of "the burden of creation", so I feel more comfortable with the idea of inter-dependence.

Yes, I was quite messed up by the church, and my antagonism towards theology may well be preventing me from seeing clearly.
Regards, Sena
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: voidypaul on October 26, 2016, 01:45:50 PM
Hi Sena ,
           how very magnanimous of you , i was afraid that i might have gone too far + offended you , my apologies if my post did seem a little harsh or insensitive .
           You have my compassionate sympathies for what you must have gone thru at the hands of some of the villainous clergy , i have heard so many horrendous stories of the abuses both mental + physical that some (far too many) have been put thru . My hope + wish is that you will heal completely + regain your inner equilibrium + freedom from the painful past inflicted upon you .
           I will put you in my meditation tonight + send some healing vibes . The true Christ loves you + is horrified at all of the inequeties done in His name + those that have perpetrated such madness will have their own karma to make up for one day .
           In the great immanenent aspect of ATI that you quite rightly spk of ' it is indeed true that we are all one , i am you + you are me , the hurt done to one is a hurt done to all + will be righted , the love + kindness given to one is a gift multiplied a thousandfold for all to share .

           i am sure that you do , but i must ask your forgiveness for my insensitiviy toward you , i must try harder to be kinder + more compassionate in my communications .

          yours contritely , paul
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: chasman on October 27, 2016, 04:59:05 PM
paul,
   just felt like chiming on. have been reading on the forum a bit lately.
and enjoyed reading alot of what you have posted.
I like this most recent post.
one thing I wonder about, though is your reference to karma.
I think Seth says its not true?

Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: voidypaul on October 28, 2016, 12:41:29 PM
Hi Chasman ,

            nice to make your aquaintence + have your input on the forum .

            Seth mentions karma in the Seth Mat' , ch 11 on reinc' . I will quote ,

            ''Karma presents the opportunity for development . It enables the indiv' to enlarge understanding thru exp' , to fill in the gaps of ignorance , to do what should be done . Free will is always involved .''
             
            He also says that karma is NOT or does NOT involve punishment , as unfortunately has been distorted in most if not all of the eastern spirituality .

            There are many more instances of Seth talking about his own karma , ie , as being born as Frank Watts so that he could learn humility . Also other instances of when others came to Jane for advice on their present family or personal relationships . As you continue your reading of the mat' i'm sure you wil get it + tho i'm not sure how many times Seth actually mentioned the word karma ,  this is what he means when he is talking about reinc' relationships. Karma is also the return of indiv's to one another because of LOVE , it is not just to do with setting right the wrongs we have done . In the bigger picture it is all about Love + reinstating past loves or removing the obstacles to love we have put before us .

            Again it must be stressed that he says it is NOT a punishment but a free choice made by the reincarnating personality to put his own house in order , so to spk .              When Seth says that free will is always involved this does not mean that the indiv' can avoid doing what must be done , painful or not , karma is always resolved one way or another but that the indiv' will choose his time + place of reckoning so to spk.
           
           I hope this helps .

                                   regards , paul
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: chasman on October 28, 2016, 01:09:16 PM
Thrilled to make your acquaintance too. Thank you very much for your excellent reply Paul.
Will write more when I get to my computer.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: chasman on October 28, 2016, 03:31:59 PM
ok, at my computer.
I have a couple things to say.
first, I am so grateful for your excellent reply.
I certainly knew about the not punishment part.
but, the rest I either did not know, or forgot.
I read Seth books alot, 20 or 30 years ago. I even corresponded with Yale, in hopes of getting more material from Jane and Rob's donated Seth material.
I got away from the Seth stuff for a couple decades, always meaning to re-read it.
3 or 4 years ago, I re-read NOPR. twice over the course of a year or 2.
also some other Seth stuff. and got a couple videos.....interview with Rob and such.
Paul, let me just say that I am so very happy to make your acquaintance. you know alot. wayyyyyyy more than I.
I'll close my post here with something I just read in the beginning of Sue Watkins Conversations with Seth Volume 2.
"the magic is you." (that may or may not be verbatim. probably is.)
I love that statement. it is Seth telling the people in the group at Jane and Rob's that we can go look for the magic in all kinds of things.........religion....politics......drugs......all kinds of things.........but the thing for us to realize is, is that the magic is me. (and for you, the magic is you.)
peace and joy and fun to all of us,
Charlie
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: voidypaul on October 31, 2016, 04:53:21 PM
Hi Charlie ,
             ''the magic is you'' , yep , love it , spot on , great quote for anyone to get their teeth into . There is nothing that exists outside of us that we have not had a hand in creating or recreating.
             One of my favourite Seth teachings is that the perciever helps recreate the percieved object or event + that both the perciever + that which is percieved both continually change each other. 
             Also that we each individually have or dwell within our own space/time continuum + that the beauty + elegance of telpathy holds all structures together from the greatest to the lowliest .
             I'd also like to thank Sena for the quotes on telepathy he recently posted that shows the infinite beauty of such apparently seperate systems that come together to create an absolutely astonishing whole.
             
             I would be most interested to know how you fared with Yale in accessing the Seth material as i understand that they have the whole body of the works donated to them by Rob + Jane + i would be interested in having a look into it myself some time .

            Oh , one thing that i did forget to mention in connection to karma is that Seth says that there is no transmigration of souls (which would come under the punishment misconception) which i am sure you are aware of but i thought i should mention it .

            Thank you kindly for the compliments but it is just Seth i am espousing so , nothing new from me there . My speciality is in what i have called the void states of cons' , which Seth has dealt with in some respects when he described the creation of the 1st planetary system that knew the race of man , the first ''object'' (the unendurable mass/no weight) + also in his concept of the ''undifferentiated'' areas or levels of cons' in which no thoughts or images exist + where cons' refines itself in terms of intensities + not in space + time .

            I am quite thankfully + happily steeped in Seth's teachings which i have been reading off + on for the past 35yrs + which i was introduced to by a young (as i was then) American man whom i met in a Chinese Dewist (spelling ?) centre in S Ealing , S london , close to where i live now .

            I was once able to attain the dual dreaming/wakeing cons' that Seth describes (tho i can't remember where) + i hope one day to be able to return to such an exalted state of cons' , tho it is difficult to attain + i hope i have not left it too long nor too late in my life to be able to achieve it again as it requires an intense concentration + several months of semi isolation to achieve , ohh lala .
             
          I am more than happy to answer any of your questions or listen to any of your own concepts or understandings , we live to love + love to live , good luck with all that you do my freind , + to all of you .

                peace , paul                         
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: chasman on October 31, 2016, 07:20:50 PM
peace to you too paul.
namaste, my friend.
thank you a super real lot for all you posted.
my correspondence with Yale was 25 years ago, I'm guessing. (I think I kept the letters, I'll have to look sometime.)
they were very nice. I also would like to go there someday. at the time, I was reading absolutely every Seth book I could get my hands on.
I am very extra interested in all you wrote.
one of my hobbies is learning about astrophysics. so, I love hearing stuff about spacetime.
I have learned so much at the astronomyforums.net astrophysics sub-forum.
all the stuff you said about voids and such sounds utterly fascinating.
"Chinese Dewist (spelling?)"     do you mean Taoist?
I was introduced to the Seth stuff in around 1975, by a psychologist/Unitarian Universalist minister.
I was born and raised Catholic. thought about being a priest off and on until I was about 20. by which time I had been actively seeking for a few years. read the Seth stuff. believed it. and then as the years went by, grew skeptical, and became agnostic. but always wanting to, and meaning to re-read the Seth stuff. 3 or 4 years ago, I re-read NOPR (twice). and since then, I believe the Seth stuff again.
and read it. (I have a lot of reading ahead of me.)
I am sooooo looking forward to talking to you more about Seth and voids.
Chas

"we live to love + love to live"       awesome, man. to the max. its soooooooo all about the love!!!!!!
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: voidypaul on November 03, 2016, 04:41:46 PM
hi Chas,
         + namaste to you too , such a pleasant greeting , v spiritual . I v much like some of the old Hindu philosophy as i have mentioned in the cyclic recreations + absorbtions of all universal manifestations (pralaya) + the concept that from an unmanifest/immaterial/nondual ''begining'' , Parabrahman/ATI 1st dreamed all other consciousnesses into existence or being , as Divine Fact , even b4 He set them free into manifestation + actualisation ..

         Seth also mentions cryptically about ATI's Own Divine Conception +  wether or not it was (from) an initial contraction or expansion  (+ that this is pretty much unknowable from any point within any of the created sys's anyway).  And i'd say that the hindu mysticism is agreeable here too . It is the unknowable or utterly transcendent aspect of ATI .
         The Buddhists as far as i know only say it is nirvana (beyond the jhanas) + therefore beyond the most refined perception that we can achieve even spiritually , + call it ''cessation'', but there are some Buddhists that also use the term nonbeing which is also Sethian + posit an ATI or some other creative source .
         
         Yes i do mean taoist , thank you .  i like their nonbeing/nonduality too (Wu chi) , + as Seth has said , these things have been known b4 + lost etc, etc .

         Seth on void is unfortunately quite scant in the material , in fact the only time i have come across it is in the mat' on the creation of the 1st planetary system where he is also quite cryptic about refering to an initial or primary/primal void state from which  all other void states arise , which i believe to be the unendurable mass/ no weight that Seth mentions in dreams/evolution etc (i think in the 2nd chp'), which ATI brings into existence b4 He releases the cons's  from the probable suspension (within His dreams) , +  b4 the creation of space + time , + of course , this was all happening simultaneously .   
         It is my belief , because of Seths cryptic descriptions + because of my own exp', that all universal systems + cons' individuals come into manifestation initially by way of a void state + indeed that there was (+ is still existent) a primal void state , that state which is on the cusp of the moment point at which ATI continually comes into objective existence from His Divine/eternal/infinite subjectivity, (in my understanding).

                     Buttttt it must be made clear that when spk'g scientifically , the terms void + vacuum are reversed , ie , vacuum to Seth is that state that is not (yet) existent but to science the vacuum state is a quantum state of the lowest poss energy (the zero point field) but which is constantly disturbed by ''invisible'' quantum fluctuations of virtual particle pairs + all of this takes place within what they call the scalar field in which all field theory takes place or occurs (like their newly found higgs field) + which has the properties of false vacuum + true vacuum.
                     This false vacuum is poss' more like Seths void state + in some ways it is v similar to my own dynamic void state . Yet the true vacuum in scientific terms would mean the anihilation of the univ' as we know it but in Seth's + my philosophy could be the (pure)void state b4 the introduction of the poss' + prob' endowed it by the unmanifest cons' or cons' units .
                     In cosmological terms , void is the emptyness between galaxies + yet there is the mysterious bootes void which is just mind bogglingly huge . I've also heard of the great attractor + the newly discovered dark flow in which thousands (many) of galaxies are being pulled or attracted to another mysterious point in the universe , perhaps an extremely super massive black hole or even the prescence of an adjacent other (parallel) univ' ???
                     All of this is quite fascinating but then again they blow it all by the exclusion of cons' from their equations . 
                     This is all v simplified + i am happy to be corrected on any misunderstanding i have made .

                     Anyway i think i am rambling + am certainly getting long winded so i will wrap it up here for the time being + see if there is any interest to add , detract or criticize it .

                      peace , paul
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: chasman on November 03, 2016, 06:21:23 PM
hey paul,
   wow, man!!
thank you for all of that.
absolutely fascinating and awesome.
I super enjoyed reading all you wrote.
there is so much that I do not know.
not much about eastern religions. I mean, a little m but not a lot.
I will just kind of ramble here for a minute. I hope you don't mind.
I love stuff that I read in Watkins Conversations Vol. 2 today.
Seth is telling the people that the divine-ness that they seek, is within themselves. not in another person, group, religion, drug.
if any other person (or spirit, eg, Seth) or group tells you that they are the sole authority, that they alone have the truth, and you must follow them, run away.
you are your own authority. you are your own god.
please understand that Seth words it most eloquently. what I wrote here merely hints at how excellent what he said is.
as for vacuum energy in current cosmological thinking, it is Dark Energy. which makes up roughly 70% of the physical universe. the rest being about 25% Dark Matter, and 5% regular familiar, what's called baryonic matter. (I think its called baryonic matter, in honor of Barry Manilow.....oops, ok, not really, just trying to make you laugh, now. lol)
ok, keeping this kinda short, as I'm not really thinking of much else to say at this second.
thank you again for all you wrote.
peace to you too, my friend,
Charlie

Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: jbseth on November 05, 2016, 07:05:36 PM
Hi All,

I’ve always found Seth’s comments about Jesus, the Christ entity, and the Second Coming, to be very interesting and somewhat inconsistent with some of his other teachings having to do with the nature of reality, simultaneous time and probable realities.

As part of Seth’s overall philosophy, he talks a great deal about the nature of reality, simultaneous time and probable realities. In the Early session books and in the Seth Material, he talks about the “York Beach” couple for example. This is a couple that Rob and Jane, physically saw while in York Beach Maine. This couple was a probable Rob and Jane.

Seth also talks about a probable Rob, a man by the name of Dr. Pietra. Dr. Pietra did some experiments in his reality in an attempt to bridge across the realities in order to make contact with some other reality. Seth told Rob that if conditions work out, it was possible that they, Rob and Dr. Pietra, could meet each other.

In one of the Early session books, Seth talks about there being a probable reality where Napolean Bonaparte conquered all of Europe and that this reality still exists for example. Seth also mentions in one of his books that the dinosaurs still exist, for example.

Given this then, I’ve come to believe that there must have been all kinds of realities that have to do with Jesus. Some where he was never even born. Some where he lived the life exactly as described in the Gospel of Matthew. Some where he was crucified but did not die, left and lived a life in France as some psychics and channels say. Some where he went to India as spoken of in some Indian traditions. Some where he lived the life exactly was Seth mentioned in Seth Speaks, and finally many other realities as well. Furthermore, if I understand Seth correctly then all of these realities do exist and are every bit as valid as any of the other realities.

This leads me to wonder why Seth told Jane and Rob the very specific Jesus story that he did in Seth Speaks (Jesus was not crucified, there was a plot where he was kidnapped, and another person was crucified instead, Jesus was a great physic and made the wounds appear on his body,….). Isn’t this just one of many probable realities having to do with the life of Jesus that did occur in some reality?

Along these same line, why would he have told Jane and Rob about the specific probable reality where the second coming occurs and all is done as Seth says by the year 2075. Isn’t this also one of the many probable realities having to do with the second coming that will occur in some reality (or that already exists in the Spacious Present)?

I’m new here and have read most of Seth’s books and many of Jane’s as well. I have  been a “Sethie” since 1979 when I was totally blown away by “Seth Speaks”.  I’m excited about joining this forum, because, probably like many of you, there aren’t many people in my extended family that I can have this type of discussion with.

I’m very interested in hearing what others in this forum think, in regards to my 2 questions above.   

Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: chasman on November 05, 2016, 07:22:17 PM
also a newbie.
posting to just say welcome.
very tired.
long day, must sleep.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Sena on November 05, 2016, 10:28:14 PM
Quote from: jbseth (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=7676#msg7676)
Some where he went to India as spoken of in some Indian traditions.
jbseth, welcome to the forum. We also need to consider the "probability" that Christ was a reincarnation of Krishna.

http://www.near-death.com/reincarnation/jesus/krishna.html
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: chasman on November 06, 2016, 02:31:19 PM
Paul,
    just wanted to mention about the word Tao.
its pronounced like its starts with a D.
I don't know why.
just thought you might be interested.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: voidypaul on November 06, 2016, 09:21:30 PM
 Hi folks  ;
             + welcome jbseth ,   Seth also said that the Christ was a much more advanced being than he is .   This is why the probabilities of the Christ, explained by Seth are more limited in a sense than they are for mere mortals like us. The Christ entity is aware of his mission so to spk, + so his probabilities are very specific in that He is here to give a message + this is exactly what He will do + then He naffs off back to the greater reality from whence He came .

            The Christ is not a reinc' of krishna , He was born once at the time of atlantis then in the so called holy land + His last incar' is now , + altho He is not enlightened at this particular time , He is alive now.   Seth said that He was not generally known for who He was + so it will be today + for the same reasons which are that he does not want to be murdered b4 He has given His message nor be hassled to insanity by the press + other religions , even christians .  He will delve into the mass uncons' of humanity + make Himself known to the world in that way + also teach at this level but He will only personally teach a few, who may well be fragmments of His own inner self just as were the disciples of old .         But He will not want to make His phys' whereabouts commomly known .   It is unecessary for Him as He can teach in dreams also , he is more than a dream art scientist etc so it will be known by many in many differnt lands, who he is + why he is here + they will know the divine presence of Christ without his having to actually go anywhere .

            When He has completed his task , He will not incar' again in an earthly form .

  Hi Chas  ;

            actually i don't think much of science's dark matter + dark energy , they are just pretending when they put forth this load of old cobblers , what they are really saying is that they don't know what 97% of the phys' univ' is made of .  Vacuum energy is about as close as they can come at this time to what both Seth + i call void .

           Yes daoist , not dewist , thanks .

            peace, paul
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: jbseth on November 06, 2016, 09:42:52 PM
Quote from: Sena (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=7678#msg7678)
Quote from: jbseth (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=7676#msg7676)
Some where he went to India as spoken of in some Indian traditions.
jbseth, welcome to the forum. We also need to consider the "probability" that Christ was a reincarnation of Krishna.

http://www.near-death.com/reincarnation/jesus/krishna.html


Hi Sena,

It’s nice to meet you.

I do believe that all probabilities, “probably” exist somewhere; now how’s that for a pun? 

I also agree that we should consider the probability that Christ was an incarnation of an entity or entities that also expressed themselves as Krishna.  Along with this, I also believe that we should consider the probability that Christ was an incarnation of an entity or entities that also expressed themselves, as Siddhartha (Buddha), Lao Tze, Confucius, Zoroaster, Elijah, Moses, or any number of other people.

However, I don’t actually believe that some person born in a later time period, is the reincarnation of some other person who was born in an earlier time period.  Instead, I believe that both of these two persons are instead separate incarnations of one or more entities.

In Book 3 of the Early Sessions, Seth talks about the layers of the subconscious and what each layer consists of.  Then in another part of the same book or another Early Session book, Seth talks about which parts of the personality transfer over into the next personality in each new incarnation.  Here, he talks about how the ego of the previous incarnation becomes part of the subconscious in the following incarnation and in this following incarnation a new ego is developed.

Here’s an example of what I’m referring to. In Seth’s material, Seth talks about his various incarnations. In one incarnation, he tells us that at the time of Jesus, he was a man named Millenius who worked with bells. In another, more recent incarnation, he tells us that he was a man named Frank Watts.  What I’m saying here is that I don’t believe that Millenius was a past personality of Frank Watts or that Frank Watts was the reincarnation of Millenius. Instead, I believe that these two personalities, are two separate incarnations, of, in this specific case, one entity, which was the Seth entity.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: jbseth on November 06, 2016, 09:54:20 PM
Quote from: voidypaul (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=7687#msg7687)
The Christ is not a reinc' of krishna , He was born once at the time of atlantis then in the so called holy land + His last incar' is now , + altho He is not enlightened at this particular time , He is alive now.


Hi voidypaul,

Hey, thanks for the welcome.


I'm curious. What is your source for your statements that Christ is not the reinc' of Krishna and that His last incar' is now.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Sena on November 07, 2016, 03:58:31 AM
Quote from: voidypaul (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=7687#msg7687)
This is why the probabilities of the Christ, explained by Seth are more limited in a sense than they are for mere mortals like us.
Paul, I am not a mere mortal and neither are you.

Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: chasman on November 07, 2016, 07:18:32 AM
paul,
   thank you very much for your post.
let me say a couple things:
- I am 100% overjoyed to have you to talk to about Seth and everything
- I 100% respect what you think about Dark Matter, Dark Energy, and void stuff and everything
- my understanding regarding all subjects is very far from being an authority. I am an expert at nothing
- I super love to talk about Seth stuff. I don't really have anyone else to do it with. so I am so happy to be here
- the astrophysics which I understand a little bit of, says that evidence for Dark Matter is very solid. its some kind of particle, which we don't what it is. there is a ton of research going on to try to find out.
Dark Energy is mysterious, as far as I know. it may be causing the expansion of the Universe.
- I think its noteworthy that the current generally accepted theory for the origin of the Universe (the Big Bang theory), does not attempt to answer the question, of what there was previous to the Big Bang.
so, it only goes back 13.7 Billion years.
its a totally cool question, to ask what was before that.
well, I think Seth answers that kind of thing.
I love the Seth material, by the way.
- in my most humble opinion, there is room for more than one kind of thinking.
the Physical, skeptical, strict rigid scientific way.
and the intuitive way, which in my mind includes being open to all sources of information, including channeling and Seth.
the first way, would reject the Seth stuff. it would say that the evidence is not there to confirm that it is for real, and legitimate.
I very much believe that there is a place for the scientific approach.
I do believe it has its limits.
and the Seth material, I think is real and legitimate, even though I don't think it would ever be accepted by a hard nosed skeptical physical scientist.


Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: voidypaul on November 07, 2016, 08:53:31 AM
Hi jbseth ,
               my source is Seth (can't remember where right now) , he stated in one of his books that Christ had the reinc's i spoke of , he does not state that Christ was not a reinc' of krishna but i'm more than sure he would have said so if that were the case . He definately stated that the entity has more or less finished with this particular sysytem + will go beyond it .
               If i find the quotes i will post them .

               I think in your statement ''Christ was an incarnation of an entity or entities that also expressed themselves, as Siddhartha (Buddha), Lao Tze, Confucius, Zoroaster, Elijah, Moses, or any number of other people.''         you do not allow for the multiplicity + diversity of entity's that there are in reality , altho in part , you do when you say ''entity or entities'' as there are a many + diverse entitys + one of them is the Christ entity . The entity from which krishna incar'd is a seperate one to the Christ entity . Do you see what i mean ?

              You also say    ''What I’m saying here is that I don’t believe that Millenius was a past personality of Frank Watts or that Frank Watts was the reincarnation of Millenius. Instead, I believe that these two personalities, are two separate incarnations, of, in this specific case, one entity, which was the Seth entity.''

              I think there is a little confusion here which is actually quite common to sethies , ie , that the main entity is indeed the source of all its incarnations + that from the entitys lofty viewpoint indeed all are one , buttttt , from the viewpoint of any incar' from within the sys' in which he is born , there is indeed a past + future , otherwise it would defeat the whole idea of incar' , + humble souls such as ourselves would not have the opportunities for growth that we do.
              So in that context millenius is a past incar' of frank watts . Seth needed the F watts incar' to learn humility which is still a difficult quality for him to express as he has said so himself .     This is also the reason why the past inc's are kept in the subcons' , because they are past to the present personality at his stage of the evolution of his (ego) cons' + not that of the entity who once he has created the new ego does not interfere + is hands off.

              Most sethies like to wet their pants over the idea that all is one etc , etc + of course in the bigger picture this is true but from your level + mine this is simply an ideal + a reality that we aspire to or we would not have been born with an ego in the 1st place . Do you see what i'm saying?
We are not at the level of awareness of the entity , the entity spoon feeds us little bits + pieces of true reality but the true reality of the entity would be unendurable for most human cons' to behold .

              peace , paul



 Hi Sena ,
               i'm a little surprised that you make this statement old bean in the context of the discussion as you make the same mistake as jbseth here in that yes of course the true inner self is a cosmic being but you + i are NOT , we have the ego + the entity does not  + it is simply a flowery addition to the ego that it believes that it has the powers of the entity as it does not + for very good reason , we are too much like children to be given such power .  Yes it is true that the seperations in the true reality are simply that but again i must state that we do not live in true reality but an absolutely miniture version of it + are spoon fed tiny bits of this true reality by the entity , like a mother succkles a child careful not to give too much but just enough for healthy growth .   
               This interweaves with the topic on telep' , in that it exists wether you are aware of it or not + indeed if you have given your permission or not + if you or i were to be made aware of the full telep' bombardment that goes on continually beneath our ego cons' then we would quickly go insane .
              Without the different levels of reality there would be no use for individuals at an egotistical level at all + there would be an unwholesome mushy oneness which Seth constantly rails against + you + i would not be the indiv' cons' that we are , learning at this level of the ego .  Seth just shows us our own true inheritance + it is sheer arrogance to think that that is what we are in a quantative sense tho in a qualitative sense all are equal , we have a long , long way to go to get anywhere near even the entity's level of awareness let alone any further .

              If someone were to shoot you in the leg you would most certainly appreciate that you are indeed (for now) a mere mortal , but if you could stop the bullet + suffer no harm then i would consider you as more than a mortal + perhaps on the level or close to that of the entity .
             Do you see what i mean ?

             there is an arrogance + foolishness to people who have newly learned of their true spiritual inherirance but the reality of their situation will (mainly) always remain the same in that they will live + die many times b4 they are not affected by phys' reality .
            When you say that you are not a mere mortal, this is what is known as Faith + not your actual reality as it is here + now . It is all well + good to have this faith in Seths teachings + in fact i encourage it , but faith + the true reality of one's situation is another thing entirely . It is what we aspire to + obvously aspirations are not yet what is for us . This is again why we have an ego + work out our realities within space + time , if we did not actually feel the love + pain + see it reflected in our phys' reality then we not be here + now as we are .  Do you see what i am getting at ?

            peace , paul

Hi chas ,  getting to your post soon me old fruit
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: voidypaul on November 07, 2016, 11:00:17 AM
Hi Chas ,
          + thank you for your posts too , i like your enthusiasm + evenhandedness . i am not so sweet + kind as you are my friend , i am more of a pointy leveller + equaliser in respect to Seths teachings .

          Scientists will continue to have their heads stuck up where the sun don't shine as long as they leave cons' out of their equations, this does not mean that i do not think them intellectual in their work as far as that intellectualism goes but they are hardly using their intelligence when they view reality from a merely phys' standpoint . The evidence for dark matter is a matter of their faulty instruments of course + they merely use dark matter + dark energy as proxies for the real thing which is quite unlike what they envisage it to be , monkeys up trees have more understanding in that sense.

          Psychology + nueroscience is still in its infancy + the mystics of old were + still are much more advanced in most ways than they are .

          I agree with you that everyone has their own way of thinking + respect them for it by en large outside of this forum (+ generally on it too) but if anyone comes here + spouts some nonsense about the Seth material then i will lay into them for it .  i try not to be unkind + abusive but i am definately the intolerant type + as i say i can tend to a pointyness + can be quite critical at times.
          Be that as it may i do make allowances for such topics as the void + nonbeing etc + am quite happy that even those who have read Seth fairly extensively have absolutely no idea what these are.

          So yes i can definitly learn from your open mindedness (+ others) + the joyfulness of a true spirituality , but most hard nosed (as you put it) scientists or religious fundamentalists always get me bent up + out of shape + i let them know how i feel about it in no uncertain terms .
          Nevertheless i do hope that you will find me to be a reasonably amiable if not forthright personality + that we will continue to learn from one another for the forseeable future .

          peace , paul
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: chasman on November 07, 2016, 12:05:21 PM
thank you for all that you wrote paul.
you're awesome brother.
in my view, its all about the love.
and the joy of being alive, and powerful and creative.
and kind and respectful.
and curious.
and learning about really cool stuff.
I think that you have an immense amount to offer.
and you are very generous to post really cool ideas and thoughts.
and you are really cool to do that.
there is so much misery in this world. there are so many miserable people.
to me, the keys to life are very simple.
- kindness
- respect
- forgiveness
- realize that I create my reality
- I am here learning how to use energy in a constructive, creative, positive way
- the power point is in the present
- life is good
- I am good
- people are good
- tap into the deep infinite wellspring of joy and love and creative energy force power,
from which I spring. indeed, from which all life springs
- so happy to talk to you paul.  :)
- thank you Deb for starting this super awesome excellent beautiful forum.

Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Deb on November 07, 2016, 08:10:52 PM
Quote from: chasman (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=7701#msg7701)
- thank you Deb for starting this super awesome excellent beautiful forum.

I am currently out of town, out of country, with Internet that is sometimes good, sometimes non-existent. I love this forum and so try to keep up with reading posts as much as possible, unfortunately responding less than I want to. You've just now given me a place to put a beautiful Seth quote that I've been holding onto, trying to find the best place to put it. Thank YOU chasman! Here is Seth at his poetic best:

"If you could but perceive the miraculous nature of your own realities in this particular moment that you call the present, how dazzled you would be and how little you would think in terms of purposes. Your reality is purpose and knows itself. What a rich, undefined miracle exists in each of your beings now! You look at paintings and call them great or a poem!

If you could feel the miraculous structure of your own being now and appreciate it, how you would wonder! The appreciation must come from yourselves. You think you are aware with techniques which you read. Listen, just to one cell within your own body. And, hear it sing with purpose and integrity and joy!

Feel a leaf. Feel the petal-like quality of your own thoughts. Be yourselves in the moment. And, again, what is the power of the present? I demonstrate it for you. But, it is your own. And, it is within you now, the energy that you perceive.
You each have the same energy. [Speaking loudly and forcefully now.] And, it sings within your being. You need not be shy of it. It is your own. You need not hide from it. You need not look to it in gurus or gods or Ruburts or Seths. It dwells within you!

In the terms of the poem, you are your own silver brothers!"

The Seth Audio Collection, ESP 19 1973.04.24

Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: voidypaul on November 07, 2016, 11:25:43 PM
 Again i thank you for your kind + generous nature Chas , a great example  + a nice supersoft kick in the butt 4 me , thanks .

       I sometimes wonder why i would have had the void nonbeing exp' that unfortunately i cannot deny as a rather too influential portion of my existence . To be honest there have been times in my life that i wished it had not occured as it is so far divorced from the reality of human existence + even the Buddhists find my exp' to be a little too much for them to handle .        Its not that there are'nt some great expansions to be had in this 'journey' into + out of void/nonbeing , in fact it seems to be a prerequisite that one must journey out of the phys' universal systems of being + in doing so , one has the good fortune to percieve all of these systems at once so to spk , possibly from the vantage point of the entity to which one belongs .   But to transcend + go beyond these sys' in which one has multiple, perhaps infinite manifestations leads one into an area of being in which no thoughts or images can possibly exist .    Seth has described such exp' in his concept of the undiffrentiated field/level of being where only formlessnes exists + a vast inf' empty space is percieved .

        ES, VOl 7 ; 
              ; '' this is what happens when you adopt a psuedoform in projections,    when you tavel, so to spk , beyond a certain range of intensities , even  psuedoobjects must vanish . They exist in a cluster about, + connected to, your own system.   The lack of even psuedoobjects obviously means that you have gone beyond your cam' sys' .  The completely uncam' areas at the outer edges of the vairious sys' should remind you of the undiff' areas between vairious life cycles in the subcon' . This is no coincidence , as this general setup occurs in all realities .
            He goes on to say ; ''you r in touch with inf'y in such undiff' areas for it is only
camoflage that gives you your conception of time .The completely uncam' layer could be rather bewildering . you might automatically attempt to project images within it but they would not take ,so to spk , but would appear to app' + dissapear with great rapidity . This would be a silent area. Thoughts as a rule would not be percieved here , for the symbols that form them would not be understood.           If a certain intensity is reached here, a peak of intensity, then you could percieve the spacious pr' as it exists within your native sys' .   

          This psuedoform does not mean that one has any manifest form at all . One does not percieve a personal form of any kind but one is still very much aware + certainly v curious , even a little frightened of the area or level of cons' one is in .   I am pretty sure that one is in the electrical reality that Seth has described where time + space are percieved in terms of intensities + not in terms of forms or images .
          There are several more expansions + contractions of cons' + again my belief is that one takes on the qualities of a ''single'' CU or unit of cons' that Seth has described . One then relentlessly + sometimes incredibly , dynamically sloughs off so to spk even the activity of such a CU + ultimately comes to rest , so unutterably that all perception + action of being seems to completely cease  + one enters into nonbeing .      Wierd eh .

          This nonbeing i believe to be that state of suspension or blocking of all possibilities + probabilities of cons' that Seth has described , which i further believe to be the state in which ATI put all of His creations of cons' to save them from the unendurable agonising He went thru + voluntarily entered into so that He could somehow find within Himself the means to set free all of His own creations + dreams into actuality . 

          The ''return'' from the state of nonbeing initially seems to involve the creation of a void state (yet again) + leads to several futher contractions + expansions etc (all formless + 'outside' of time + space) until one comes into actualised reality + manifestation in a blinding flash of light + expansion which is far too ''busy + multidimensionally involved'' for me to poss' give any adequate explanation .      One then comes into the area or level of the universal system in which one has his phys' manifestation + 'passes thru' all of the times + places of his incarnations until he reaches the time + place where he set out from + actually 'smacks' into his body with such force as to release or become aware of the inf' multidimensional probabilities existent in one moment point of being . This then gradually slows down until one is aware of the single body form in which he has his present existence .           
           One might think that this is unusual or strange but i believe it to be the natural inherent condition of any + all cons's (as we are all made up from these cu's).    It can be + is a complete pain in the ass because it completely dunbfounds + befuddles the intellect + even with Seths descriptions + Buddhist jhana/Nirvana or Hindu Parabrahman/pralaya i still cannot find a rational way to share such an experience + in some ways it has plagued my life + left me outside of the humanity with whom i share this current existence .

           I hope in some way that in my feeble descriptions i can thank you + all here for their patience + kindness for the cranky old man i have become .  Hopefully one day i will be able to at least return to the dual dreaming wakeing cons' that i once exp'd + from there , if i have the strength to reach it , i can return once more into the formless states i have never been able to forget .     
               cheers Chas + peace , paul

                also , please forgive me when i rail against a certain egotism, which i too have as a great failing in my own nature but yes i also agree that it is true that both you + i + all of us are beautiful + great  + indespensible to the working of the universe . When we ultimately break down the barriers to the subcons' + come into that new state of cons' Seth has alluded to, then we will truly know ourselves to be the wonderous + multidimensional beings we but dimly percieve as yet .(oh no , there i go again)
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: chasman on November 08, 2016, 05:43:38 AM
Deb,
    thank you soooooo much.
I loved the quote.
you are so awesome and amazing.
thank you for your excellent post.
thank you so much again for starting this forum.
you are so great and wonderful!!!
I am very pro Seth stuff.
in my humble opinion, you starting this forum is an act of super goodness.
as I said to paul, I really have no one else to talk to about this stuff.
I have mentioned it to some people.
there's usually no interest. like none.
some people are not happy about it. they think Seth is the devil, or a bad spirit.
these are people who are very religious.
well, that makes me more careful about who I tell Seth about.
people are brainwashed. (some people.) they are told what to believe when they are young (for example).
and they pretty much stick with that.
I believe there's really nothing to fear. maybe, but fear itself. or maybe not even that.
if you start from a standpoint, that you are powerful, and created out of love and joy, and that you create your own reality with your thoughts beliefs, and then emotions, and that the power point is in the present..........then whats to fear?
nothing.
love and value yourself.
be aware of the magic and beauty that exists within you. now.
be aware of how powerful and capable and creative and energetic you are. now.
love and value you. now.
and love and value others too.
but (I'm talking to myself here), my love and value of me, is dependent on no other person.
I have found the magic and beauty in me.
I am good enough for me.
my happiness, depends on 1 person. me.
hey have a beautiful magical joyful day.
paul, I have a busy day ahead.
I will read your post when I can give it the time it deserves.
as for now, I'll just say, thank you soooooooo much for it. you are awesome and amazing. and thank you Deb for telling me good things about paul. I am so happy to hear them.

Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: chasman on November 08, 2016, 04:18:53 PM
wow.
ok, thank you paul.
that was phenomenal.
mere words are not even close to being adequate to express my gratitude to you.
thank you for all the nice things you said about me.
if you feel like it, would you please tell me when you had the void experience? and how old were you then?
I am fascinated by all that you wrote.
I just carefully read it all for the second time.
I just feel like mentioning by the way, that since I read NOPR twice a couple years ago (re-read, as I had read it when I was young, perhaps more than once), I have found magic inside of me.
I hope I don't sound like I'm bragging.
not a fan of bragging.
that said, I believe that I have tapped into creative energies and powers from within myself that make me extremely happy.  am an amateur musician. and I am ecstatic with my ability. (I could not always say that. in fact, I used to say "ladies and gentlemen,  suffered for my music. and now.........its your turn............before performing for others............and it was an accurate statement........hahahahhahahhaha..........please try the veal......pah dum chhhhhh)
also, I am thrilled with what I have learned about astrophysics and relativity theories.
please understand that all of the above is relative. I am good at music stuff, for me. that is to say, not comparing myself to anyone else. I am just able to make music in ways that I find highly beautiful, fun and entertaining and pleasing and magical.
as for astrophysics,  don't know much. but I know a little. and I keep learning more. and I super love it.
enough for now.
peace paul.   :)
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: jbseth on November 09, 2016, 05:30:55 PM
Hi Sena, voidypaul, and others

Recently, Sena, voidypaul and I have been having a mini discussion about reincarnation regarding Christ and Krishna.

Today I was walking through a Walmart looking for some Christmas light hooks and while there, I thought I'd checkout their magazine and book section. In the magazine section, I discovered a magazine titled, "Spirituality and Health". I've never see this magazine before and so I thought I'd take a quick look to see what types of articles it contained.

While checking out this magazine, I found that on one of the pages, there was a question and answer section titled something like, "Ask the Rabbi". Furthermore, the first question in this section was, "Can God incarnate as both Christ and Krishna?" In response to this question, the Rabbi, then proceeds to give his answer.

Talk about synchronicity. :)

Out of curiosity, I looked for and found this magazine on the internet today at the following website.

http://spiritualityhealth.com/

If you go to this website, and page down, you'll find the section titled, Rabbi Rami:  Can God incarnate as both Christ and Krishna?



Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Sena on November 09, 2016, 09:00:58 PM
Quote from: jbseth (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=7721#msg7721)
Talk about synchronicity.
jbseth, thanks for this link.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: myststars on November 09, 2016, 11:22:21 PM
To make a joke ... to this title of this thread ...

The return of Christ personality:

Trump won

Couldn't stop myself ... :))
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Deb on November 10, 2016, 06:38:33 PM
Well, funny you should say that. Just yesterday someone I know, when they heard Trump had won, posted on Facebook "God is on the throne!!! I am thankful for the outcome of the election yesterday." She didn't mean Trump was God, but maybe that God was in control or that christian values were going to be restored to this country. I really need to ask what she meant.

This election was the most bizarre one I've ever seen and the reaction of some of the public is unbelievable. I think we need to continue to explore this topic--Trump is not 'the one" (reference to The Matrix).  BTW, I love Pat Condell (British) for his fearlessness and clarity of thought. While I'd considered not voting at all in this election, Pat is the one who made me rethink that (video below--if anyone here needs a written transcript let me know, I'd be happy to provide one). Maybe we can all learn a lesson from this election and next time around the parties will come up with some higher caliber candidates. The problem is, I don't think anyone in their right mind really wants the job. :)

This just popped into my head, dug out of the dusty, cob-web covered memories of another lifetime: "Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men? The Shadow knows."

https://youtu.be/sHCul_DIM_4

PS
I've been out of town/country all week and am SO far behind in posting. I have so much to say, so little time. The definition of maturity is still in my mind and was a topic of discussion over more than one dinner. I get back home this weekend.

Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: myststars on November 10, 2016, 11:50:31 PM
It's intersting how hard is for a woman to give a definition of maturity...In college we were 26 girls and 5 boys in class and always i had a feeling that the girls looking over us like mothers look over to imature kids...It was a bit an air of superiority...It felt like we were not capable of doing and mothers always take care...

I opened a thread about the symbol of Trump election in Comic and Entertaiment section ...  ;D :D

https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?topic=835.new#new
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: jbseth on November 11, 2016, 07:18:26 AM
Hi All,

In chapter 20 of the book, “The God of Jane”, Jane Roberts includes the latter part of Session 876, August 27, 1979, 9:12 PM Monday. In this session, Seth provides, I think, some of his most significant comments about Jesus, the 3 Christs and the birth of Christianity. In this session, he also says the following.


“Christianity was, then, a rather rich blend of beliefs that were gradually weeded out. You had many probable roads that Christianity could have followed. Each of them represented various probable developments in culture and philosophy; and each of those developments, of course, would have given you a different present. Each of those alternatives has happened also.”


Borrowing then from Seth’s statement above, regarding this topic of the Return of Christ personality, I tend to believe that there will be many probable roads that this event will follow and each of them will provide a different probable future. Furthermore, I also tend to believe that each one of these probable futures will also occur.


Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: myststars on November 11, 2016, 10:20:31 AM
Quote from: Deb (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=7727#msg7727)

This just popped into my head, dug out of the dusty, cob-web covered memories of another lifetime: "Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men? The Shadow knows."

https://youtu.be/sHCul_DIM_4




The guy above is entrenched in the "earthly" paradiagm old energy / fear / doubt...It doesn't take  any law of universe into account.He is stuck like many blaming the goverments before .This is a limited perception imo.Seems the earthly paradigm still resonates with parts of you.

THis is a youtube created recently about US election and the 9th Pleiadian Conscioness talking.. With Trump or no Trump you will have to cleanup in yourself after all.

https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?topic=835.new#new



Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Deb on November 14, 2016, 11:38:54 AM
Quote from: myststars (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=7732#msg7732)
It's intersting how hard is for a woman to give a definition of maturity...In college we were 26 girls and 5 boys in class and always i had a feeling that the girls looking over us like mothers look over to imature kids...It was a bit an air of superiority...It felt like we were not capable of doing and mothers always take care...

Catching up after my trip!

Not so hard for me, I just kept getting sidetracked with other things and didn’t want to put up some trite, thoughtless response. Children are self-centered, dependent, needy little creatures by design and my view of maturity is overcoming these traits. In a nutshell, I’d say “responsible.” People who can be independent and take care of their own needs, make “good*” decisions and have transcended childhood narcissism, in that they can look beyond themselves and relate to/empathize with others, be willing to help if need be. Not everyone matures in all ways, I think we can be mature about some things and not others, depending on how much work we still need to do.

Interesting observation from college for you, I’ve never in my life wanted to 'mother' men. Only my son, but then I am his mother. Now that he’s an adult I don’t want to mother him. But I do worry at times. He's still maturing, the decision-making doesn't always work out. But he has to learn from his mistakes. We all do.

*Examples of NOT good decisions: Darwin Awards (http://www.darwinawards.com/darwin/). "The Darwin Awards salute the improvement of the human genome by honoring those who accidentally remove themselves from it..."

Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: myststars on November 14, 2016, 12:43:14 PM
Quote from: Deb (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=7781#msg7781)
Quote from: myststars (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=7732#msg7732)
It's intersting how hard is for a woman to give a definition of maturity...In college we were 26 girls and 5 boys in class and always i had a feeling that the girls looking over us like mothers look over to imature kids...It was a bit an air of superiority...It felt like we were not capable of doing and mothers always take care...

Catching up after my trip!

Not so hard for me, I just kept getting sidetracked with other things and didn’t want to put up some trite, thoughtless response. Children are self-centered, dependent, needy little creatures by design and my view of maturity is overcoming these traits. In a nutshell, I’d say “responsible.” People who can be independent and take care of their own needs, make “good*” decisions and have transcended childhood narcissism, in that they can look beyond themselves and relate to/empathize with others, be willing to help if need be. Not everyone matures in all ways, I think we can be mature about some things and not others, depending on how much work we still need to do.

Interesting observation from college for you, I’ve never in my life wanted to 'mother' men. Only my son, but then I am his mother. Now that he’s an adult I don’t want to mother him. But I do worry at times. He's still maturing, the decision-making doesn't always work out. But he has to learn from his mistakes. We all do.

*Examples of NOT good decisions: Darwin Awards (http://www.darwinawards.com/darwin/). "The Darwin Awards salute the improvement of the human genome by honoring those who accidentally remove themselves from it..."




Oh ... you put way too much in the "maturity" basket.Many people really need a big course of self-help to do all that you have put in that basket and it may take years...Many man don't understand that at emotional level..You end up dissapointed as a woman.No wonder i haven't found too many happy womans in my life..Remember that you still live in a male dysfunctional society so maturity and responsability is really distorted...
After reading various channeling material on freedom i see that people when want freedom actually are not prepared for ... freedom.
Freedom comes with responsability that everything around you IS your creation...Freedom comes with responsability that you know if you have miserable thoughts you must take care of your inner courtyard and not blame the others...
The responsabiliy is sold as a punishement.Example:

"You are responsable that my cat is sick.." This is a very dysfunctional belief.


Recently i experience the I AM that is told in books... 90% of my mind is in the I AM state now..How i know is that i feel so in the ... Zero Point...In that everything just is so static, so melded with enviroment, so relaxed, so quiet, you feel sucked beyond...Is very very nice state to BE...Is just BE...I tackled most parts of me like voices, aspects etc and after they ceased an emptiness and silence emerged...Is stable, is all day there...The NEEDS and WANTS that were before disappeared....

Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: jbseth on November 14, 2016, 08:07:45 PM
Quote from: Deb (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=7781#msg7781)
Not so hard for me, I just kept getting sidetracked with other things and didn’t want to put up some trite, thoughtless response. Children are self-centered, dependent, needy little creatures by design and my view of maturity is overcoming these traits. In a nutshell, I’d say “responsible.” People who can be independent and take care of their own needs, make “good*” decisions and have transcended childhood narcissism, in that they can look beyond themselves and relate to/empathize with others, be willing to help if need be. Not everyone matures in all ways, I think we can be mature about some things and not others, depending on how much work we still need to do.

Nice Definition Deb.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Batfan007 on November 15, 2016, 01:53:10 AM
Quote from: Deb (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=7781#msg7781)
Quote from: myststars (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=7732#msg7732)
It's intersting how hard is for a woman to give a definition of maturity...In college we were 26 girls and 5 boys in class and always i had a feeling that the girls looking over us like mothers look over to imature kids...It was a bit an air of superiority...It felt like we were not capable of doing and mothers always take care...

Catching up after my trip!

Not so hard for me, I just kept getting sidetracked with other things and didn’t want to put up some trite, thoughtless response. Children are self-centered, dependent, needy little creatures by design and my view of maturity is overcoming these traits. In a nutshell, I’d say “responsible.” People who can be independent and take care of their own needs, make “good*” decisions and have transcended childhood narcissism, in that they can look beyond themselves and relate to/empathize with others, be willing to help if need be. Not everyone matures in all ways, I think we can be mature about some things and not others, depending on how much work we still need to do.

Interesting observation from college for you, I’ve never in my life wanted to 'mother' men. Only my son, but then I am his mother. Now that he’s an adult I don’t want to mother him. But I do worry at times. He's still maturing, the decision-making doesn't always work out. But he has to learn from his mistakes. We all do.

*Examples of NOT good decisions: Darwin Awards (http://www.darwinawards.com/darwin/). "The Darwin Awards salute the improvement of the human genome by honoring those who accidentally remove themselves from it..."




For me the achievement of any kind of maturity is specific to inidivudal topic and charactertistics, particulalry the opportunity to model the behavior of those we could reasonably say are "mature" within social norms.

As Joseph Chilton Pearce says of the newborn "If we have no model, we have no development" Nothing to imprint from.

Also, I can mature at say I don't know Ju-Jitsu or writing because I have invested many hours of effort in those fields of intelligence, developing my abilities, however the thing i have not invested time in, or have not a had a socially acceptable model for, I tend to be immature in, likewise for all kinds of personal attributes. The son of an angry bitter man models anger, while the son of a happy man models happiness, and responsibility etc.


Generations who face no great crisis, and abundant material wealth are often not challenged to exercise our ability to "mature" at various things, in the way say people who are at war are forced to.
So the luxury of abundance means the challenge is to actively seek out situation that challenge us, because without resistance, there is no growth, without models of behavior and abilities  in our everyday world, experienced in person there is no opportunity to learn.
The wisdom for me lies in finding good models of behavior, and in finer discrimination, finer distinctions in who to trust and what to believe, what to learn etc.

What is useful (utilitarian), and what is painful, or unknown seems to govern much of our daily habits.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: voidypaul on November 16, 2016, 06:42:35 PM
Hi jbseth ,
            an interesting addition to the debate but i think both the rabbi + the questioner are both  under a severe misconception ,   God does NOT incarnate ,     God is a creator , He is within all of reality on every level .  Only the created beings go thru the process of incarnation for obvious reasons which do not apply to ATI . 

            The idea that God is both Krsna + Christ is a rather obvious statement to make + cannot be denied   ,
            but that in no way (in my mind) implies that Christ is an inc' of Krsna or vice-versa .

            I believe that the Christ entity is seperate to the Krsna entity + have as yet to see any evidence otherwise.        And what would the point be in one coming from the same entity as the other
as if these beings achieved a state of godhood why would either one of them want to be the other, + their godhood would surely lead them into different avenues of existence etc as seperate entitys in themselves , surely it would be much more interesting to both that they remain somewhat 'seperate' .

            I understand that Seth has said that the Christ entity 'split' into 3 different personalities or counterparts tho' he does not say as such about the present inc' which he says will be a composite of the 3 .        Also it seems that in this case the Christ will be known for who He is + not as some other deity like Krsna , so it must follow that he is not Krsna nor any other enlightened being but Himself only .    So on at least 2 occasions Christ has more or less been known for who he is (tho i am not sure about the atlantean inc', but to Seth he was Christ) + no one else .

           Oh yes , the one thing that Seth did recognise about the Hindu's + extolled the virtue of for overall good health is ,,,,,        OM    or   AUM  , whichever turns you on i suppose .

            I agree with your futher post that many prob's will come into actualisation (in seperate realities) because of the inner strength + vitality of the Christ + of the need of the people + just simply because of the true nature of reality .

             peace , paul
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: jbseth on November 17, 2016, 06:47:03 AM
Hi voidypaul,

In many of the comments you make, I find that generally I do not come to the same conclusions that you do. However, this is not really an issue for me, as I know lots of people don't see things the way I do.

Here’s the thing, Seth talks extensively about probable realities.  Given what Seth’s says about probable realities, do you believe that there exists some probable reality where Christ was the reincarnation of Krishna?
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: sethspeaks on November 18, 2016, 01:42:05 AM
If Krisna lived in the time of Atlantis, then he was the incarnation of Christ, by Seth.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: myststars on November 18, 2016, 01:58:17 AM
Krishna was an ET according to a David Wilcock show.How is depicted in drawings with color of the skin, different body than human and the size.For now being an ET makes more sense than what is sold in the mainstream for me.He came to earth to teach.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krishna

The pictures are easily telling that Blue skin is not Human origin imo.Also many ET that came as teachers didn't want to be worshipped..They just showed by example what can be achieved..The Sirians made this mistake many times.They wanted to do so much good to humans that they end up blinding themselves and realized the mistake much much later..

Christ had a powerfull Arcturian energy.In Orion civilization a sort of similar Christ (A very high vibration Arcturian) incarnated on the planet and because the population was like a "one mind" (like Asians) the polarization of the population could be turned around from extreme negative to positive.Orion civilization couldn't get out from their drama for Eons...Dune first volume is a very reflecting of Orion civilization.The author tapped in that energy.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: sethspeaks on November 18, 2016, 02:52:32 AM
Seth spoke of three great civilizations, but not talk about how their members seemed ...
Bhagavadgita describes a bluish color of Krsna, but rather as the color of a thundercloud - which is gray. The most famous ET are the Greys ..
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Batfan007 on November 20, 2016, 10:28:57 PM
Quote from: sethspeaks (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=7847#msg7847)
Seth spoke of three great civilizations, but not talk about how their members seemed ...
Bhagavadgita describes a bluish color of Krsna, but rather as the color of a thundercloud - which is gray. The most famous ET are the Greys ..

No offense, but the Gita uses mythic-literal language.
It's not saying there were actually blue people.
However, if people encountered actual blue people, it would most likely have been in their dreams.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: voidypaul on November 21, 2016, 02:46:13 PM
jbseth

Hi voidypaul,

In many of the comments you make, I find that generally I do not come to the same conclusions that you do. However, this is not really an issue for me, as I know lots of people don't see things the way I do.

Here’s the thing, Seth talks extensively about probable realities.  Given what Seth’s says about probable realities, do you believe that there exists some probable reality where Christ was the reincarnation of Krishna?



Hi jbseth ,
             No i don't believe that there is a prob' where Christ was the incar' of Krsna . Seth does state that all prob' or poss' of cons' are somewhere realised but i believe he was spkg in terms of the prob' + poss' inherent in each indiv' being + not that in some reality 2 seperate entitys are somehow mashed up into one or that one entity would for some inexplicable reason give up his uniqeness to take on the prob' inherent in another entity .

             Why would indiv' beings have been created if one was to take on the mantle of another , its like saying that i would reinc' as you or you as me , it just does'nt make sense + would seem to defeat the whole object of indivduality itself .
             Christ is a unique indiv' entity as is Krsna , as you are , as we all are , so why would any one of us choose to incar' as the other , + anyway this is an impossibility you cannot be me anymore than Christ can be Krsna. 
            Seth spoke quite a lot about Christ , even that He is more advanced than Seth himself + if Christ had been a rein' of Krsna i have no doubt that he would have said so .

             I hope this clears up my beliefs on the inviolate individual being , be that of an entity or human or ant etc .

             Also , seth has said that we all create our own realties which means that you + i + all other beings do so 'within' our own time/space continuum ie Seths example of the 4 glasses created by the 4 people who seem to see the same glass  + that it is only the inherent telepathy that makes us think that we view the same glass . No one's reality is the same as any others, on any level of reality , not Christ's or Krsna's nor yours or mine . We are all seperate beings , in a shared reality . Do you understand this Seth concept ?

             As for our differences of opinion , they are what they are precisely because you + i are both indiv' beings + always will be , tho perhaps we may come closer to some sort of an understanding as to the reality of the inviolate + indestructible uniqeness of all indiv' beings  , who knows maybe cows will lay eggs one day , as omlettes if we're lucky .

             peace , paul

 
sethspeaks,

If Krisna lived in the time of Atlantis, then he was the incarnation of Christ, by Seth.

         
Hi sethspeaks,
                why do you think this + where did you get it from ?  i certainly do not think it is a Seth quote + here we have a new twist on the topic , if Christ were the incar' of Krsna .
               

              peace , paul
 

 myststars

Krishna was an ET according to a David Wilcock show.How is depicted in drawings with color of the skin, different body than human and the size.For now being an ET makes more sense than what is sold in the mainstream for me.He came to earth to teach.

Hi myststrs,
               David Wilcock has his take on reality but as can be seen with many of his ideas + predictions , they are way off the mark but i do like him , he tries hard to help + should be commended as such but some of his ideas should be taken with a pinch of salt , rather quaint in my view . 



Hi Batfan007 ,
                 i agree with you , so many people take these myths far too seriously. Like this debate i'm having about Christ being an incar' of Krsna , i don't even know where this myth came from but it is just another one of those la di da somewhat compelling ideas folks get from time to time  + not really relevant to the return of the Christ personality at all as far as i am concerned , + absolutely not Sethian .   More in the field of , if we are all indiv's + yet we are all one + what does that mean exactly ? Perhaps a new topic for conversation as it seems to me to need some clarification by the way this present topic has been going .

                Also somewhat like the mistaken notion that the  Rama whatshisname chappie put forward that God or ATI incar' as Christ or Krsna ,   absolute poppycock , ATI does not incarnate , He is the creator + source of all beings ,  far too huuuuuge for any one incar' to handle .

                 peace , paul

Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: myststars on November 21, 2016, 11:18:49 PM
Quote from: voidypaul (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=7889#msg7889)


 myststars

Krishna was an ET according to a David Wilcock show.How is depicted in drawings with color of the skin, different body than human and the size.For now being an ET makes more sense than what is sold in the mainstream for me.He came to earth to teach.

Hi myststrs,
               David Wilcock has his take on reality but as can be seen with many of his ideas + predictions , they are way off the mark but i do like him , he tries hard to help + should be commended as such but some of his ideas should be taken with a pinch of salt , rather quaint in my view . 



Is not only David wilcock saying that.Krishna lived in a period when ET lived and land on earth.Other channeling material that i read is not directly point Krishna but is pointing ET lived and trained humans on earth.

Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: voidypaul on November 22, 2016, 02:49:43 PM
Hi myststars ,
               i totaly agree that ET's have been to earth + have either helped or hindered humanities progress at these times . Many of them still come here to oversee the progress we make so i have no problem with your post in this respect .
               My main contention is that most of the religious leaders such as Christ , Buddha + others are manifestations of the entity's to which they belong + who have the best of intentions of humanity at heart wether or not they have succeded as such or whose messages have been distorted by the religious heirarchys  who came after them . These personalities were definately not ET's in my view but as you say many folks believe that they are , c'est la vie as they say , every one to their own .
              In any case , Christ will return + help to put all of these things in their proper perpective + will begin a new authentic religious drama which as Seth says will be completed by 2075 , but He is alive now so hopefully many of us will become a part of this great expansion of cons' .

              peace , paul
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: sethspeaks on November 23, 2016, 11:58:50 AM
I thought this:
"In your terms, and in your terms only, the coming of Christ was the Second Coming. (Pause). In those  terms only, he appeared at the timebof Atlantis, but the records were destroyed and forgotten except in the memory of a few who survived.
Now, again in those terms, he is an entity who appears time and time again within your physical system, but he has been recognized on only two ocassion. Once in Atlantis, and once in the Christ story as it has come down to you in all of its distortions. He appears and reappears therefore, sometimes making himself known and sometimes not. He was not one personality, as I have told you, but a highly developed entity, sometimes appearing as a fragment of himself."
ss.558
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: voidypaul on November 27, 2016, 08:11:25 PM
Hi sethspeaks,
               so in Seths terms , this will be the 3rd recognised coming of Christ .
 
               I still don't quite see the connection between Christ being an incar' of Krsna .Do you think that Krsna was born in the time of Atlantis ? But Krsna was incar' on the Asian continent which maybe would be different from the Atlantis civilisation . I know Seth has said that Atlantis was more a collection of civilisations rather than an island race so maybe it could be one of these , tho i also believe there could have been a central hub of these civilisations that did exist somewhere in the Atlantic region + which was innundated in the great flood .

               I'm not sure if the Christ would reveal himself to the world at large as to his phys' manifestation
 + place or location on earth but i am sure that those close to Him will know who He is .

               I believe that He will use the 'mass uncons' as a method to make Himself known + also the dream reality to make His teachings known as with the crucifiction drama (altho He was not crucified Himself) but as Seth has said this crucifixion drama could be likened to the emergence of a new planet in our system + was a gift from the dreaming reality to ours . So quite a massive all consuming event + altho it may be abhorrent to those in our time it had a massive impact on civilisation at that time , +  generally spkg , for the good of all . So perhaps there are some great psychic surprises to come with the new Christ .

              Without a doubt the new Christ religious drama is now unfolding within all of our dreaming realities  individually/personaly , en masse + even thoughout the ages of incarnations in which Christ was present wether He was known or unknown . I believe 'our' Christ will be a sort of central hub or matrix in which many of His incarnations will come to 'fruition' because of who + what He is (or will be) now  , in our time .
 
              Some lucid dreamers may be able to tune into His emerging + some natural psychics/mystics can sense + feel His prescence in the world today .  As Seth has said , as this personality becomes aware of who + what He is , so will the world at large (or those who are sensitive to these frequencies) also become aware of Him + of who + what they truly are .  Seth also said there will be no great fanfare or judgement day as some believe but there will be a gradual (+ occasional massive psychic event) awakening + 'turning-on' of the uncon' potentials that we have chosen to ignore in our growth of the ego structure , until it was strong + sure enough of itself to be able to handle the multidim' inner info' + to be able to use it . The ego will expand + the old egotism of one self one world will gradually dissolve .

            It does'nt really matter if one believes that Krsna was Christ or the other way around , 'our' Christ's expansion will be felt worldwide + will be 'coloured' accordingly by the culture in which He manifests or in whose dreams or mass uncons' He 'apppears' .     Anyway   it is the entity , from whom all gods + men manifest whom Christ will teach each indiv' to make contact with , + so some men/women will go beyond the distinctions of gods + men +  into the inf' non-phys' realms where all worlds + gods + beings are dreamt into simult' existence .

           These realities exist within us now + it is only the ego that is wary of such inner expansions but we will overcome these artificial barriers with the help of the Christ , tho it is prudent for each one of us to encourage such inner expansions/contractions in ourselves so we may be more receptive to the time when Christ will trigger the release of these inner psychic potentials + realities .
           
           I prepare with my own meditations etc so i might be able to go into a semi isolation for 3 months or so + hopefully regain a dual wakeing/dreaming consciousness i once experienced .
           I am lucky that altho i am somewhat disabled , in our compassionate + generous English society , i am not obliged to have to go to work , so nowerdays i have the time on hand to overcome my difficulties + in a year or two , go into this semi islolation + hopefully reach the dual cons' + from there maybe i can re-enter  the void states .
           We all have our dreams , mine are just a good bit wierder than most , being of void + non-being .
           Non-being is beyond even the most peaceful + tranquil state of cons' .
           No thoughts or feelings or images or perceptions nor any mental reflection of any kind whatsoever .
           The end of stress as Buddha put it .
           Non-being but not non-existence , a 'temporary' suspension .
             
          the void states are transition processes or intensites that are entirely 'outside' of + beyond the formed realities/systems in which we dwell . In Seths terms my void states correlate with his undifferentiated area/level of consciousness ie, the unformed , unmanifest aspect of the self , the entity + Seth2 exist more intensely at this level Many of the void states are therefore quite dynamic + again , correlate with Seth's vitality + his electrical reality .

          It is only non-being that is the cessation/suspension of all activity .

          We were all unmanifest beings
          Eons before we became manifest

          Once we were not
          Until a God dreamed us into reality + existence

          Now we are eternal + free
          Praise be
          ATI

          Surely this transcendent/immanent being is worthy of the highest praise + love
          It is one reason for the existence of religion in me
           

         Do you feel or possess an inner (religious) sense of your own indiv' being + divine origin in some way ? 
   
         I would say it is inherent + indelible in all beings , regardless of present day distortions .
         In the simplest sense , i would say that God is religion as there could certainly not be religion without God
         So Christ will elucidate not only His new religion but what religion IS .
          I suppose .

            peace , paul
         
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: sethspeaks on November 28, 2016, 09:52:53 AM
Hi Paul,
There is so much that I wanted to write. For me it is not important whether the Christ entity called Krishna or otherwise, if he had blue skin or not ... important is that he is a symbol that can manipulate with the matter, that the disease is not what limits us. Mahabharata describes an advanced civilization, which used Vimana flying machines, Krishna possessed an essentially unlimited power, in fight the strong personality able to cure overnight from injuries only his inner strength. It may be the civilization Seth designated as Atlantis or not ...
And equally, Christ is a symbol that can freely manipulate matter and similarly, any disease can be cured immediately. However, I must remind that he was not Jesus Christ, but Jesus-Paul-John Christ. From Seth's material I derived, for example, that a miracle healing comes from Paul. Paul has been involved in other situations - like the temptation in the wilderness was Paul's dream in which he saw Christ - Seth told how Paul felt in the dream Jesus as the devil - it was not a story about temptation, but how it is possible have unlimited power just if we realize it. The highlight of this story was the crucifixion - but it was Simon who ended up on the cross. And there was more and more distortions.
Christ, who has now come not Jesus but Paul - Paul Christ, that Paul, who was the murderer of Christians. The Bible says that Christ will return, but Paul was who ensured that it appeared in the Bible, and now must fulfill his promise. He must come to say that everything is possible, because he did not it - he said that everything is possible if you believe in Christ, but he had to say - everything is possible if we believe in ourselves - everyone creates own reality.
He would pick up values that are described in the session 703 and 704.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Sena on December 28, 2016, 08:44:09 PM
What Seth did NOT say about the Christ who will return before 2075:

(1) He did not say that Christ is All That Is.

(2) He did not say that Christ is a god of any description, Almighty or less than Almighty.

(3) He did not say that Christ is "good" or "bad".

(4) He did not advise us to become "followers" of the Christ who returns.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Sena on December 28, 2016, 08:54:44 PM
Quote from: sethspeaks (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=7968#msg7968)
He would pick up values that are described in the session 703 and 704.
sethspeaks, it is interesting that you mention these two sessions with reference to the Christ. I found them in The Unknown Reality, Vol. 1:
http://tinyurl.com/hg4gfmd
Do you mean that the Christ who returns will be a great healer, healing in both mind and body?
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: sethspeaks on December 29, 2016, 09:07:44 AM
Hi Sena
I think that the historical Christ was like, believe in me and I will heal you. By contrast, the new Christ should say, believe yourselves and remove those beliefs that promote disease and you will be healed.

Seth for example of fatal diseases session JUNE 11,1984 4:08 P.M. MONDAY  TWTH:
"There are those who come down with one serious disease — say heart trouble — are cured through a heart transplant operation or other medical procedure, only to fall prey to another seemingly unrelated disease, such as cancer. It would relieve the minds of families and friends, however, if they understood that the individual involved did not "fall prey" to the disease, and that he or she was not a victim in usual terms.
This does not mean that anyone consciously decides to get such-and-such a disease, but it does mean that some people instinctively realize that their own individual development and fulfillment does now demand another new framework of existence.
Much loneliness results when people who know they are going to die feel unable to communicate with loved ones for fear of hurting their feelings. Still, other kinds of individuals will live long productive lives even while their physical mobility or health is most severely impaired. They will still feel that they had work to do, or that they were needed — but the main thrusts of their beings still reside in the physical universe.
Each person's purposes are so unique and individualistic that it is quite improper to try to make any judgments in such matters. There is also the overall picture, for each family member plays a certain part in the reality of every other member.
A man might die very shortly after his wife's death, for example. Regardless of the circumstances, no one should judge such cases, for regardless of the way such a man might die, it would be because the thrust and intent and purpose of Ms life was no longer in physical reality."
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Batfan007 on December 29, 2016, 05:22:35 PM
Quote from: sethspeaks (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=8349#msg8349)
Hi Sena
I think that the historical Christ was like, believe in me and I will heal you. By contrast, the new Christ should say, believe yourselves and remove those beliefs that promote disease and you will be healed.

Seth for example of fatal diseases session JUNE 11,1984 4:08 P.M. MONDAY  TWTH:
"There are those who come down with one serious disease — say heart trouble — are cured through a heart transplant operation or other medical procedure, only to fall prey to another seemingly unrelated disease, such as cancer. It would relieve the minds of families and friends, however, if they understood that the individual involved did not "fall prey" to the disease, and that he or she was not a victim in usual terms.
This does not mean that anyone consciously decides to get such-and-such a disease, but it does mean that some people instinctively realize that their own individual development and fulfillment does now demand another new framework of existence.
Much loneliness results when people who know they are going to die feel unable to communicate with loved ones for fear of hurting their feelings. Still, other kinds of individuals will live long productive lives even while their physical mobility or health is most severely impaired. They will still feel that they had work to do, or that they were needed — but the main thrusts of their beings still reside in the physical universe.
Each person's purposes are so unique and individualistic that it is quite improper to try to make any judgments in such matters. There is also the overall picture, for each family member plays a certain part in the reality of every other member.
A man might die very shortly after his wife's death, for example. Regardless of the circumstances, no one should judge such cases, for regardless of the way such a man might die, it would be because the thrust and intent and purpose of Ms life was no longer in physical reality."


For a public example of that last point, Carrie Fisher (Star Wars) died this week, and her mother (Debbie Reynolds) in the same week.

The next day after.
I see neither accident nor tragedy in that.
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/12/28/entertainment/debbie-reynolds-hospitalized/
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Deb on December 29, 2016, 08:25:56 PM
Quote from: Batfan007 (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=8356#msg8356)
The next day after.
I see neither accident nor tragedy in that.

There have been some very interesting parallels presented in the news about these most recent celebrity deaths.

I have to add, that I was named after Debbie Reynolds, by my mother.

If I suddenly disappear, don't worry. The domain name and hosting for SoS are paid for in advance for at least a couple of years. Carry on my wayward sons.


Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Batfan007 on December 29, 2016, 09:58:17 PM
For some reason I have a craving to watch Supernatural after reading your post Deb.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Batfan007 on December 29, 2016, 10:10:01 PM
Quote from: sethspeaks (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=7912#msg7912)
I thought this:
"In your terms, and in your terms only, the coming of Christ was the Second Coming. (Pause). In those  terms only, he appeared at the timebof Atlantis, but the records were destroyed and forgotten except in the memory of a few who survived.
Now, again in those terms, he is an entity who appears time and time again within your physical system, but he has been recognized on only two ocassion. Once in Atlantis, and once in the Christ story as it has come down to you in all of its distortions. He appears and reappears therefore, sometimes making himself known and sometimes not. He was not one personality, as I have told you, but a highly developed entity, sometimes appearing as a fragment of himself."
ss.558


Did Seth mention along with any of this material the cultural "copy and paste" of the previous Egyptian stories into the Christ stories (along with other cultural stories and myths that preceded Christ that were incorporated into the popular versions of events).
I'll have to read some of this again. Been a few years. Can you tell me please SETHSPEAKS which book session 558 is from?

Some examples in these books (have not read yet)

Suns of God: Krishna, Buddha and Christ Unveiled
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1931882312?ie=UTF8&tag=jamifrat-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=1931882312


The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors: Christianity Before Christ
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1605200301?ie=UTF8&tag=jamifrat-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=1605200301
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Deb on January 04, 2017, 03:16:40 PM
I had a feeling recently, related to the return of the Christ personality theories we all have been tossing around. But my feeling didn't involve a person raising consciousness, it involved the Internet. I sure hope I can explain myself. And Len, you sort of touched on it here:

Quote from: LenKop (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=8333#msg8333)
Our beliefs regarding religion need close inspection too. The 'new religion' might well be no more organised than this forum. But many will read that it will 'not be Christian in your terms' and immediately an organised congregation will be imagined.

I remember when the Internet started getting popular and in my mind I likened it to a 'material collective consciousness.' Material meaning it is something which we can all observe and participate in on a conscious level.

I've seen some really bad things come from the Internet. But even that supports my theory. What I'm getting at is the bad things coming from the internet have a silver lining in that people are becoming more aware and better informed about what's going on. And have the opportunity to right the wrongs because of that new knowledge. And the uglier the exposed wrongs are, the faster the changes will come about because of the emotional impact.

The Internet is beginning to create a transparency in the world. Hackers are leaking information that has up to now been too easily hidden from the public. The exposure of dishonesty, cheating, underhandedness, corruption in business (Monsanto and the likes), medicine, big pharma, big farma, finance, government, human rights, animal rights, ecology, food production, manufacturing. I could go on, but you get the idea. There are less chances for secrets now and a new awareness in the general public about what's going on behind the scenes. Getting things out in the open causes a natural/organic righting of the wrongs that have been customarily hidden and therefore able to continue. The silent majority (meek?) speaks through their actions, not words, and can make changes in society just by changing their own behaviors, spending habits, loyalties, etc. in reaction to these revelations.

The Internet is becoming somewhat omniscient, and in the process so are we. Hopefully this will result in a shift, for the better, in morality. It sounds like a Big Brother thing, but in this case we all would be BB. Less secrets. Forcing people, businesses, governments be accountable for their actions. In the process, becoming more respectful of society/nature/the planet—and more moral as a result.

I'm not saying the return of the Christ personality is the Internet, but I think it could play a role.

OK, feel free to tell me why you think I'm a complete nutter.  :o

Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Batfan007 on January 04, 2017, 06:27:38 PM
Quote from: Deb (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=8400#msg8400)
I had a feeling recently, related to the return of the Christ personality theories we all have been tossing around. But my feeling didn't involve a person raising consciousness, it involved the Internet. I sure hope I can explain myself. And Len, you sort of touched on it here:

Quote from: LenKop (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=8333#msg8333)
Our beliefs regarding religion need close inspection too. The 'new religion' might well be no more organised than this forum. But many will read that it will 'not be Christian in your terms' and immediately an organised congregation will be imagined.

I remember when the Internet started getting popular and in my mind I likened it to a 'material collective consciousness.' Material meaning it is something which we can all observe and participate in on a conscious level.

I've seen some really bad things come from the Internet. But even that supports my theory. What I'm getting at is the bad things coming from the internet have a silver lining in that people are becoming more aware and better informed about what's going on. And have the opportunity to right the wrongs because of that new knowledge. And the uglier the exposed wrongs are, the faster the changes will come about because of the emotional impact.

The Internet is beginning to create a transparency in the world. Hackers are leaking information that has up to now been too easily hidden from the public. The exposure of dishonesty, cheating, underhandedness, corruption in business (Monsanto and the likes), medicine, big pharma, big farma, finance, government, human rights, animal rights, ecology, food production, manufacturing. I could go on, but you get the idea. There are less chances for secrets now and a new awareness in the general public about what's going on behind the scenes. Getting things out in the open causes a natural/organic righting of the wrongs that have been customarily hidden and therefore able to continue. The silent majority (meek?) speaks through their actions, not words, and can make changes in society just by changing their own behaviors, spending habits, loyalties, etc. in reaction to these revelations.

The Internet is becoming somewhat omniscient, and in the process so are we. Hopefully this will result in a shift, for the better, in morality. It sounds like a Big Brother thing, but in this case we all would be BB. Less secrets. Forcing people, businesses, governments be accountable for their actions. In the process, becoming more respectful of society/nature/the planet—and more moral as a result.

I'm not saying the return of the Christ personality is the Internet, but I think it could play a role.

OK, feel free to tell me why you think I'm a complete nutter.  :o




I love that so many dirty secrets are now out in the open thanks to the Internet.
I may not agree legally with WikiLeaks, but ETHICALLY I do agree with it.
Power institutions hide behind cloak and dagger stuff, and the first step and one of the most power-ful in crumbling their vice like hold is the internet.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: chasman on January 04, 2017, 07:07:43 PM
Deb,
   a couple thoughts:
- I think that the internet can be a vehicle for making the world a better place for everyone.
someday, I hope, the internet will be available everywhere, and everyone will own a computer (or some device to surf the web with).
- when people living in war torn places, and places that are controlled by dictatorial nasty governments, find out through the internet, about how people in other places, live in freedom, they will work to effect positive change in their countries.
- the internet a super awesome and excellent teaching/learning tool.
it can be used constructively and creatively, to teach/learn about good things. kindness, peace and joy, and all kinds of really cool stuff.
we're limited only by our imaginations.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Batfan007 on January 04, 2017, 08:39:12 PM
another thing I like in our times is that through the internet and telecommunications, we've had news reporters and whole governments shamed and caught out with their outright lies and propaganda.

"There were no casualties in  the blah blah attack on blah....freedom...yadda...necessary attack....yadda yadda"

On the news: the manufactured convenient story that supports the dominant cultural narrative.

On the internet: actual photos and video footage from a cell phone, uploaded to a blog that anyone can view that shows that there were fatalities, or the situation is NOT what was reported and massaged into  "truth". Or that the armed forces yet again shot civilians and then lied about it after the fact.

That sort of thing has happened so many times now, that even the most jaded conservative would have to admit that the news media has very little to do with "facts" about anything, nor does it have any kind of credible objectivity.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Sena on January 04, 2017, 09:29:02 PM
Quote from: Deb (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=8400#msg8400)
I'm not saying the return of the Christ personality is the Internet, but I think it could play a role.
Deb, you are grasping at straws! The problem that I have (and perhaps you share to some extent) is that I really don't know who Christ was, if he ever existed. The story of the Samaritan woman at the well is an appealing one:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samaritan_woman_at_the_well

Then you have this kind of bizarre statement:

"For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let the one who is able to receive this receive it.”

http://biblehub.com/matthew/19-12.htm

The only way I can interpret this is by imagining Christ as an extraterrestrial who was born without sex organs.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: voidypaul on January 05, 2017, 07:04:37 AM
Wow , lots to catch up on .

     Hi sethspeaks ,

                        Paul was a very complex personality upon whose massive energy , understandings + distortions the church was built + he was supremely successful in its establishment but unfortunately the distotions that you mentioned grew out of the system he created .

                        As you suggested , paul/christ will teach each indiv' his personal contact to their own inner selves + thru this connection ,  the entity itself . So there will be no need of any new churches or 'administrators' of the new faith or religion he will teach , as it will be a more personal message about the self's creation of his own portion of reality .   

                        The person on the cross was deluded + drugged as Seth has said but he has also said that the possibilities + prob's of the crucifixion have not yet been exhausted (or something like that) , another of his cryptic + mindblowing statements (i'll see if i can find it).   I'm sure that paul will one day explain more about the crucif'n + its ramifications + also its source + connection to all of us in the dream state .

                       
Hi Sena , you said ,

                      '(1) He did not say that Christ is All That Is.'

                          Yes ur right , but he did say that Christ knew of or was aware of his position + connection (consciously) to ATI via the auspecies of the entity of which he was also a conscious portion or fragment .   It is this connectivity that he will teach us to find within ourselves .

                      '(2) He did not say that Christ is a god of any description, Almighty or less than Almighty.'
 
                          The living Christ will seem godlike to us because of his psychic abilities as he will be in direct contact with his entity which is godlike in its awareness + mobility , which spans multitudinous times + places + other planes of existence totally unfamiliar to us right now . HE will be as knowledgeable if not more so than our Seth but he will be here amongst us actually showing + demonstrating to us the powers of the true self , that Seth could only but hint at via Jane + the written page  which we all read so avidly .  Christ will show it , be it , is it .

                      '(3) He did not say that Christ is "good" or "bad".'

                         Christ/paul will be in touch with his inner self + entity + so will be eminently good as the entity cannot be otherwise or would not be an entity of such great force + power to begin with + even Seth has said is much greater than he is + that is saying something .  Entities cannot be bad or evil , it is not possible + goes against Seths  concept of the basic inner law of value fulfillment  which permeates all realities .
                        If you said that paul might be good or bad then i might agree that the paul part of the equation might well have developed in his life some personality traits that could be interpreted in such a way , but the Christ part is entirely beyond such designations .

                       '(4) He did not advise us to become "followers" of the Christ who returns.'

                           If anyone here or anywhere 4 that matter ever got the chance to meet or be taught by the new Christ , whom i believe to be alive now , then they would have lost the chance of a lifetime or generations of lifetimes if he/she did not make contact with this extraordinary personality + become a part of the source of the new enlightenment , more fool he .
          Would you not find it most desireable for someone to show you how to directly contact your own inner self + entity or who could show you your own reincarnational selves or the afterlife or ur own non-physical origins or ur connection to ATI ? It would be as if Seth himself could incarnate + yet still have the powers + knowledge he has now on his plane of existence but even more intensely on all levels with the Christ personality .

                     you also said

                               'Do you mean that the Christ who returns will be a great healer, healing in both mind and body?'

                   Christ/paul will teach methods of contact to the inner self + entity + if one will take his teachings to heart (like Seths teachings) he will come to know the methods by which his body is constantly unconsciously created + that the mind is a creation of the entity , that portion which looks out for the well being of each of its manifestations + allows it some contact to its unmanifest source .   Crist/paul will teach us how to heal ourselves , in all ways .  It is not the mind that needs healing as it is a knowledgeable portion of the entity + therefore non-phys' + unimpeeded by any phys' reality whatsoever , it is simply the ego's belief systems + misconceptions that need to be put right + overcome + made to work for the freedom of the self + not against it .


                   Sethians should have a head start in this sense as many of them should know by now of the creation of mental enclosures thru which all indiv' cons's must come into manifestation + of the mental genes which contain the source mental qualities of the being as well as the phys' genetic information + the emotional mental enzymes which are the catalysts for the material manifestation + the inner senses which collect all of this together + creates the composition as a whole   + the way that it pulsates on + off , from matter to antimatter etc , etc + of course the vitality which is the source material/energy for all of it , the manifest or creative energy of ATI expressed in the units of cons's Seth spks of .

                   
                   The human personality , inner self + ego are constructs or by-products of the entity  , as are our own dream personalities + probable selves constructs or by-products of our own phys' cons's +  which exist on other planes , as we exist on another plane in realation to the entity which never itself becomes manifest + to whom we are merely a portion of his dreams .     The subcons' is a connective but also a barrier to the reality of the inner self + entity as the human personality would be like a straw in a hurricane (Seth) if we were to come into full awareness of the entity itself .
                  It is as Seth describes in his 5th dimensional space , which contains planes within planes within planes + Selves within selves ad infinitum , it is all here + now + it is only the ego's ignorance + duality that keeps us from it .
                  Seth has encouraged us to do daily sessions of dissociation + psy' time (or meditation if you like) to encourage or foster in us the use of the inner senses so we can explore the inner realms of our being + overcome the fear of death that plagues so many .

                   The question has arisen again about Seths concept + statement about the 3 or 4 glasses , each of which is created within the indiv'l space continuum + personal perspective of each of the observers present + that no one gets to see the same glass as anyone else's .   
                   This should bring one to the conclusion that in the most basic + important respects we all , not only (subcons') create , but live in completely seperate worlds . The inner self creates his own atoms + molecules in this production + it is only telepathy + the root assumptions we all agree on , that knits  all of these seperate worlds together + allows us to create + percieve a shared world experience . 
                   
                   It is as Seth has said , our present reality is like an inversion of the experience of the 1st humans , the dreamers , who exp'd phys' reality in a more personal dreamlike way + it was only much later that phys' reality became a more shared exp' along with the creation of the ego .  To the dreamers phys' reality was much like our own dreams are to us now , more personal + intimate .  Then came the inversion of cons's , when both the body cons' + the personality created the ego cons's to deal with the phys' manifestation + the subcons' , which then 'contained' the source + energy of his being .

                   Our very thoughts + feelings are spoon fed us via the subcons' from the inner self + entity , how we interpret + what we create from them is a personal thing , to each his own , but it all comes initially from an inner non-phys' source . Our own ego's are simply certain personality characteristics around which the entity creates a new ego cons' + yet we each contain within us in condensed form , the capsule comprehension which is the knowledge of the entity + the universe as a whole + all of its multitudinous workings , + so does each atom contain this same condensed capsule comprehension + each atom will then choose its own affiliations according to its own self cons' + grow in knowledge of itself by its own activities , as we do in our own more complex human ways + according to the multitudinous freedoms granted us as indiv' personality units , tho constrained somewhat by the entity + karma  . 

                  Seth has decsribed this as being similar to the hypnotists effect upon his subject , we are all in trance with the inner self constantly giving us the suggestions that we are living in a phys' reality , its all just a beautiful , meaningful completely trancelike illusion from which we will eventually awaken .

                  As has been said by Seth + many mystics , phys' reality is an illusion created + produced by the more real + true reality of a non-phys' inner self  who resides  within an inner world of multidimensional existence of which we are but a miniscule  tho intrinsicaly important + loved manifest portion .    Christ will teach us to expand way beyond the present ego's pitiful scientific + religious limitations + dogmas .
                 
                Coooool paul  ,   i sincerly hope i get to meet him ,  because as Seth has said , He is (or will be) an aware portion of ATI manifest upon the earth .  This does not mean He is ATI but is aware of His connection + contact with ATI .    He will be godlike in comparison to any other living being in His Christ/paul illumination , which has not obviously yet occurred .
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Sena on January 05, 2017, 08:42:50 AM
Quote from: voidypaul (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=8415#msg8415)
The living Christ will seem godlike to us
Paul, I am sure Christ will appear godlike to Christians. When you refer to "us", I take it that you mean Christians.

"that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,"

http://biblehub.com/philippians/2-10.htm
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: sethspeaks on January 05, 2017, 12:30:22 PM
Hi voidypaul,
about crucifixion seth said:
"Symbolically, however, the crucifiction idea itself embodied deep dilemmas and meanings of the human psyche, and so the crucifiction per se became a far greater reality than the actual physical events that occured at the time.
Only the deluded are in danger of, or capable of, such self-sacrifice, you see, or find it necessary. Only those still bound up in ideas of crime and punishment would be attracted to that kind of religious drama, and find within it deep echoes of their own subjective feelings."
SS,s.591
It is not flattering for those who believe this  ::)
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: voidypaul on January 05, 2017, 02:03:07 PM
Hi Sena , you said  ,

     '' Paul, I am sure Christ will appear godlike to Christians. When you refer to "us", I take it that you mean Christians''

   No  , I am saying that because Paul will have intimate conscious contact with his entity , that any human being of whatever ilk will be able to , if they can , percieve these godlike portions (as the entity is most definately godlike in comparison to any of its manifestations) .   
   It will not matter what the belief structures are of any indiv' , christian , hindu or jew , those with the eyes to see will witness something way beyond what they have known or been taught , even sethians .     
   The Christ is not just some bloke from next door  , he has qualities + abilities that far surpass even Seths who is not even a phys' being + has access to a far greater spectrum of cons' so to spk than any physically manifest being has .            In fact most people will not be able to contain the experience of the Christ + will only go as far into the exp' as their limiting beliefs + courage will allow them ,  as Seth said , full awareness of the entity for ego cons' would be like a straw in a hurricane , but this is what Christ will have to offer , the possibility of full awareness of the entity .      Mindboggling psychic stuff  ,  streatch ur imagination to its upmost extreme + then some .     The wildest trip in cons' ever for those lucky enuf to have the opportunity .
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: voidypaul on January 05, 2017, 02:30:32 PM
Hi sethspks ,

             along with
                        ''the crucifiction idea itself embodied deep dilemmas and meanings of the human psyche''

quote you gave , i will add the one i mentioned earlier which is in ES2 sess 44

            ''And within the framework of the crucifixion there are inexhaustable truths still to be explored''

          + i believe that somewhere Seth has also said that the psychic reality of the crucifixion was a gift from the dream-world to ours + also that its impact was as if a new planet had appeared in our system .

            The crucif' was a much deeper event than most people understand but because Seth also said what he did about the deluded , the conversation seems to drop off + stop there , in rather shallow waters in comparisson to what else Seth had to say , unfortunatly .


Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Sena on January 05, 2017, 09:26:05 PM
Quote from: voidypaul (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=8420#msg8420)
In fact most people will not be able to contain the experience of the Christ + will only go as far into the exp' as their limiting beliefs + courage will allow them ,  as Seth said , full awareness of the entity for ego cons' would be like a straw in a hurricane , but this is what Christ will have to offer , the possibility of full awareness of the entity .      Mindboggling psychic stuff  ,  streatch ur imagination to its upmost extreme + then some .     The wildest trip in cons' ever for those lucky enuf to have the opportunity .
Paul, what you are writing here has little relationship to what Seth actually said. It appears to be your idiosyncratic interpretation of Christian doctrine. Seth never promised "wild trips in consciousness". That kind of trip is described by those who have taken psychedelic drugs:

"... Such massive doses of LSD chemically activate all levels of cellular memory to such an extent that in certain terms they are no longer in charge of themselves, and the memories can then emerge unpredictably when the system is under stress. The fine biological and psychological alliance is now weakened." (quote from The Nature of Personal Reality)

http://sethquotes.paradisenow.net/seth_excerpts_part_i.html
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: sethspeaks on January 07, 2017, 12:51:02 AM
Hi voidypaul,
I found this /in session 46/:
"In art, you manage sometimes to put into a framework of space something which usually has no existence in space. The crucifixion has no existence in space. It has no existence basically in time, in that it did not occur to any particular person, per se, at any particular time per se. Nevertheless it is a reality on your plane, and it exists within it.
And within the framework of the crucifixion there are inexhaustible truths still to be explored. Mark's paintings of the crucifixion, like other such paintings, created a concept form, within which an unexpressable concept is transformed into expressible terms and placed within a spatial framework."
I think Seth talks to Mark / Bill / a for Robert because both were painters and understand what the image scene and how it affects generations. Seth probably advised them how to get through these scenes to their past lives.
I would say something similar here/s.588/:
"In several lives I was consciously aware of my "past existences." Once as a monk I found myself copying a manuscript that I myself had written in another life."


Quote from: voidypaul (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=8421#msg8421)
i believe that somewhere Seth has also said that the psychic reality of the crucifixion was a gift from the dream-world to ours + also that its impact was as if a new planet had appeared in our system .
It is necessary to substantiate the quote.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Deb on January 07, 2017, 08:47:40 AM
Quote from: sethspeaks (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=8432#msg8432)
It is necessary to substantiate the quote.

Yes, every effort should be made to cite a Seth quote that is being presented. Otherwise it can't be discussed. Others will also want to read the text themselves, in context, in order to form their own interpretation if there was any ambiguity on Seth's part. I know that's rare, but it happened.

An easy source for locating quotes is here: http://search.sethtalks.com/   I use it all the time. While it has its limitations right now (not every book has been cataloged yet), I've been very pleased with it.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Batfan007 on January 13, 2017, 12:09:25 AM
Quote from: sethspeaks (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=8432#msg8432)
Hi voidypaul,
I found this /in session 46/:
"In art, you manage sometimes to put into a framework of space something which usually has no existence in space. The crucifixion has no existence in space. It has no existence basically in time, in that it did not occur to any particular person, per se, at any particular time per se. Nevertheless it is a reality on your plane, and it exists within it.
And within the framework of the crucifixion there are inexhaustible truths still to be explored. Mark's paintings of the crucifixion, like other such paintings, created a concept form, within which an unexpressable concept is transformed into expressible terms and placed within a spatial framework."
I think Seth talks to Mark / Bill / a for Robert because both were painters and understand what the image scene and how it affects generations. Seth probably advised them how to get through these scenes to their past lives.
I would say something similar here/s.588/:
"In several lives I was consciously aware of my "past existences." Once as a monk I found myself copying a manuscript that I myself had written in another life."


Quote from: voidypaul (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=8421#msg8421)
i believe that somewhere Seth has also said that the psychic reality of the crucifixion was a gift from the dream-world to ours + also that its impact was as if a new planet had appeared in our system .
It is necessary to substantiate the quote.

Short version: All events are "psychic" events, requiring neither time nor space.

The super-sytem or super-set (rule-set) is ALWAYS Consciousness that preceeds any material reality, to borrow some words from Tom Big Toe.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Deb on April 06, 2017, 06:36:17 PM
Quote from: strangerthings (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=8932#msg8932)
into trouble, maybe did some drugs, saw things and experienced things unpleasant (and pleasant!), possibly grow up to get married and have children, a job and bills, have learned invaluable social lessons, and all that jazz because this is beneficial to the experience so that he/she will be able to relate to the world. Won't this being HAVE to relate to the world even when....metamorphosis begins and grows?

If he's going to be such a super hero, he probably wouldn't need all of that to relate to the world because he will be in-tune with ATI, his higher self, his incarnations/probable selves and all that entails. But… that background would be good to help people relate to HIM (my mind goes back to the old days, friends being resentful of getting marriage coaching from a priest who… has never been married).

I'm trying to think of what type of personality traits he will need to appeal to the largest variety of people. Confidence, but not too much? Modesty, but not too much? Honest. Trustworthy. Respectable.

Considering the divisiveness of our world religions makes me wonder if he will come to lead in a different way than religion. The world has agnosticism, atheism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Rastafarians, Pastafarians, religions and non-religions ad infinitum. Other than a world-wide epiphany (read: miracle), I have a hard time imagining all of the planet's individuals and their beliefs suddenly being united. Oh jeez, my mind just touched on The Matrix again, where we find the OS (reality, OLC) has already been scrapped and rewritten over a few times and it's about to happen again. Time to reboot? Spontaneous evolution.

I don't know what one person could do to convince these differing views to become united. Any ideas? I'm willing to speculate there is a way to unite world consciousness that we can not even imagine at this point. It will take some new thinking. Time to move forward and try something new.

Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Sena on April 06, 2017, 09:48:38 PM
Quote from: Deb (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=8988#msg8988)
Considering the divisiveness of our world religions makes me wonder if he will come to lead in a different way than religion.
If he is to make any sense he will need to be independent of religion. Christianity is now a dog's breakfast with its glorification of torture.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=dog%27s%20breakfast

It will be interesting if Christ overhauls science. Rudolf Steiner spoke of Spiritual Science.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Deb on April 10, 2017, 10:34:59 AM
Quote from: Sena (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=8992#msg8992)
It will be interesting if Christ overhauls science.

Yes, that makes sense. Science is more universally-accepted, not so inflammatory or emotionally charged. Quantum physics would fit, considering its current direction and how in alignment it is with Seth's teachings.

Quote from: strangerthings (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=9010#msg9010)
Why such referencing to a "he" ?

For me, this:

(all from SS, session 586)

The third personality, mentioned many times by me, has not in your terms yet appeared, although his existence…

He will not come to reward the righteous…

He will, however, begin a new religious drama.

…he will not be generally known for who he is.

He will return to straighten out Christianity, which will be in shambles at the time of his arrival,

He will undermine religious organizations—not unite them. His message will be that of the individual in relation to All That Is. He will clearly state methods by which each individual can attain a state of intimate contact with his own entity; the entity to some extent being man's mediator with All That Is.

The third personality of Christ will indeed be known as a great psychic, for it is he who will teach humanity to use those inner senses…

He will lead man behind the symbolism upon which religion has relied for so many centuries. He will emphasize individual spiritual experience, the expansiveness of soul, and teach man to recognize the multitudinous aspects of his own reality.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Sena on April 10, 2017, 09:07:33 PM
Quote from: Deb (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=9016#msg9016)
He (Christ) will clearly state methods by which each individual can attain a state of intimate contact with his own entity;
Being more in contact with one's own entity is a very desirable goal. Perhaps it is a more useful and realistic goal than "enlightenment". The implication of what Seth is saying is that we don't yet have the "methods" which will enable us to reach that goal.

Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Batfan007 on April 13, 2017, 11:34:22 PM
Quote from: Deb (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=9016#msg9016)
He will undermine religious organizations—not unite them. His message will be that of the individual in relation to All That Is. He will clearly state methods by which each individual can attain a state of intimate contact with his own entity; the entity to some extent being man's mediator with All That Is.

I quoted this part, as I guess Seth is emphasizing this [in context] , but he (Seth) also gives his own methods for contacting our entity throughout the various Seth books.
I assume he would mean a greater mass focus on that, like you know how everybody in western schooling gets taught to read and write and such, that rather than a few oddballs delving into what is usually called mystical mumbo jumbo, that the practices would become more mainstream, rather than on the fringe of society.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Deb on April 15, 2017, 04:59:42 PM
Quote from: strangerthings (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=9030#msg9030)
I ask because Seth also states and reiterates that he speaks in our terms. Terms that we understand. Seth also states that at 'that' time (referencing a state of mind that did not allow a woman to share divinity), a "he" was more acceptable.

Are you saying that is still the case?

All I was saying was that since Seth was using he, so was I. Seth did say he speaks in our terms, but session 586 was written in 1971, not that long ago. And yes, 'he' could have been used as a convenience or generic term such as in the example you used. Personally I don't care if the entity is male, female or anything in between, any color, size, age, from any nation, planet or dimension.

My feeling is that the new (returned) Christ entity would have to TRANSCEND gender/race/creed in order to advance humanity. This will have to be a being that we have never seen the likes of before: mind-bending and extraordinary. Not in a form with which anyone has preconceived judgments. Something completely new.

Interesting (to me), from Seth Speaks, Session 586 quoting The Seth Material, session 491:

(“There were three men whose lives became confused in history and merged, and whose composite history became known as the life of Christ…. Each was highly gifted psychically, knew of his role, and accepted it willingly. The three men were a part of one entity, gaining physical existence in one time. They were not born on the same date, however. There are reasons why the entity did not return as one person. For one thing, the full consciousness of an entity would be too strong for one physical vehicle. For another, the entity wanted a more diversified environment than could otherwise be provided.

(“The entity was born once as John the Baptist, and then he was born in two other forms. One of these contained the personality that most stories of Christ refer to…. I will tell you about the other personality at a later time. There was constant communication between these three portions of one entity, though they were born and buried at different dates. The race called up these personalities from its own psychic bank, from the pool of individualized consciousness that was available to it.”

Seth Speaks, Session 586, July 24, 1971:

The third historical personage, already born in your terms, and a portion of the entire Christ personality, took upon himself the role of a zealot.

This person had superior energy and power and great organizing abilities, but it was the errors that he made unwittingly that perpetuated some dangerous distortions. The records of that historical period are scattered and contradictory.

The man, historically now, was Paul or Saul. It was given to him to set up a framework. But it was to be a framework of ideas, not of regulations; of men, not of groups. Here he fell down, and he will return as the third personality, just mentioned, in your future.

Now Saul went to great lengths to set himself as a separate identity. His characteristics, for example, were seemingly quite different from those of the historical Christ. He was “converted” in an intense personal experience–a fact that was meant to impress upon him the personal and not organizational aspects. Yet some exploits of his in his earlier life have been attributed to Christ—not as a young man, but earlier.

(10:05.) All personalities have free will and work out their own challenges. The same applied to Saul. The organizational “distortions,” however, were also necessary within the framework of history as events are understood. Saul’s tendencies were known, therefore, at another level. They served a purpose. It is for this reason, however, that he will emerge once again, this time to destroy those distortions.

Now he did not create them on his own, and thrust them upon historical reality. (Jane paused, a hand to her eyes.) He created them in so far as he found himself forced to admit certain facts: In that world at that time, earthly power was needed to hold Christian ideas apart from numberless other theories and religions, to maintain them in the middle of warring factions. It was his job to form a physical framework; and even then he was afraid that the framework would strangle the ideas, but he saw no other way.

(“Why the two names, Paul and Saul?”)

He was called both. (Pause.) When the third personality reemerges historically, however, he will not be called the old Paul, but will carry within him the characteristics of all the three personalities. [My note: WOW!]

...When the historical Christ “died,” Paul was to implement the spiritual ideas in physical terms, to carry on. In so doing, however, he grew the seeds of an organization that would smother the ideas. He lingered after Christ, just as John the Baptist came before. Together the three spanned some time period, you see.

John and the historical Christ each performed their roles and were satisfied that they had done so. Paul alone was left at the end unsatisfied, and so it is about his personality that the future [reincarnated] Christ will form.

SS Chapter 21: Session 588, August 2, 1971

Rob: (In the 586th session... Seth stated that by the year 2075 the third Christ—Paul or Saul—would have enacted the Second Coming, exerting of course a profound effect upon religion and world history. Jane thought a period of less than a century was much too short a time to encompass so many dramatic changes.

Seth: Now in answer to Rubert's question: The birth will occur at the time given; by the time given (the year 2075). The other changes will occur generally over the period of a century, but the results will show far before that time.

Because of the plastic nature of the future, in your terms, the date cannot be considered final. All probabilities point in its direction, however, for the inner impetus is already forming the events.

PS
I copied & pasted a few of these quotes from a blog rather than typing all of it myself. The other person had used a capital H for He, His or Him referred to Saul/Paul. I've tried to catch all of them to restore to Seth's actual writing.

Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: sethspeaks on April 16, 2017, 02:53:25 AM
Especially you should know that this game played out John, Jesus and Paul together. These three created the symbol "Christ".
It is a symbol, not a man, who walked the earth.
Here goes about unraveling of religious symbols. Which were original and which were not.
Seth speaks of many paths that lead to the inner self. This way passed through these symbols.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Deb on April 16, 2017, 07:02:22 PM
Quote from: sethspeaks (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=9067#msg9067)
Especially you should know that this game played out John, Jesus and Paul together. These three created the symbol "Christ".

Or…
The Christ Entity/Personality (just one aspect of All That Is, albeit a huge one) created John, Jesus and Paul as aspects or fragments of itself. The disciples were aspects of Jesus, maybe all three of them. In this regard, everything/everyone could be considered symbols. John and Jesus felt successful in their intentions; Paul felt he missed his mark. The return, according to Seth, will be Paul intending to right what he felt he failed, but also will contain a compilation of all three aspects of the Christ Entity. So… maybe something new? The Earthly manifestation of the Entity, rather than a singular aspect/incarnation/probability of the Entity?

Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: sethspeaks on April 17, 2017, 08:16:54 AM
Yes.  :)
Session 588:
"Paul needed the strongest egoistical strenght because of his particular duties. He was far less aware consciously of his role for this reason. The inner knowledge, of course, exploded in the physical conversion experience."
Session 586:
"The man, historicaly now, was Paul or Saul. It was given to him to set up a framework. But it was to be a framework of ideas, not of regulations; of men, not of groups. Here he fell down, and he will return as the third personality, just mentioned, in your future."

---

I think he will need a big ego because he will have to unite ego and ati.
When he makes this connection, it will be easier for others to do this thing too.
I do not think it will be great theater. He "only" wakes up Truth.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Sena on April 17, 2017, 10:00:53 PM
Quote from: strangerthings (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=9075#msg9075)
I find it interesting that when I researched within and online and in books the etymolgies of the word "Bartholomew", I get

Bar = son of

tholomew = thalamas or thalamai which means chamber, and is an area associated with the pineal gland.
On the theme of the pineal gland, the chemical DMT is found in the pineal of humans and other primates. The Amazonian plant ayahuasca also contains DMT. Those who have experimented with DMT have had very illuminating experiences:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N,N-Dimethyltryptamine

https://erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=101884
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Deb on April 18, 2017, 07:32:16 PM
"Each of the twelve represented qualities of personality that belong to one individual, and Christ as you know him represented the inner self. The twelve, therefore, plus Christ as you know him (the one figure composed of the three) represented an individual earthly personality — the inner self — and twelve main characteristics connected with the egotistical self. As Christ was surrounded by the disciples, so the inner self is surrounded by these physically oriented characteristics, each drawn outward toward daily reality on the one hand, and yet orbiting the inner self."
—SS Chapter 14: Session 560, November 23, 1970

Quote from: strangerthings (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=9074#msg9074)
THE TWELVE DISCIPLES - Neville Goddard

Thank you SO much for the information on the disciples. Seth mentioned them briefly, but did not (have the opportunity to) expound on what they represented. Neville does not speak to me much at this point, so I appreciate having people that know his work well.

DMT has come up here before (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=386). While I have not been much of a drug experimenter in my life, DMT does interest me. I wish I had a way to test it. The side-effects, however, are a big deterrent.



Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Sena on April 22, 2017, 06:43:33 AM
Quote from: strangerthings (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=9085#msg9085)
I only know that because moons ago at one time, I wanted to try this. lol
You might even see Christ if you take it in a sufficient dose.

http://www.evolveandascend.com/2017/03/13/the-secret-history-of-hallucinogens-in-christianity/

http://www.egodeath.com/amanita.htm
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Deb on April 22, 2017, 09:24:26 AM
Quote from: Sena (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=9087#msg9087)
You might even see Christ if you take it in a sufficient dose.

http://www.evolveandascend.com/2017/03/13/the-secret-history-of-hallucinogens-in-christianity/

Great find! It makes sense to me, I think all cultures throughout history have had some sort of aid to elevate their consciousness (the word 'high' makes more sense to me now). Explains some things in the bible as well. I've added the book to my Wish List.

Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Sena on August 29, 2017, 02:20:12 AM
Quote from: strangerthings (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=9615#msg9615)
Seth *hints* and you have to read between the lines. Seth is tricky in this way. Very tricky.
strangerthings, I agree with you on this. Welcome back to the forum.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: sethspeaks on August 30, 2017, 12:24:28 PM
Strangerthings,
I also agree, but it is a little stereotypical in everyday reality.
It seems to me...
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Deb on October 12, 2017, 10:15:30 AM
I found a book I'd never heard of before, Christ Returns Speaks His Truth (http://christreturns.org/). This book (https://www.amazon.com/Christ-Returns-Reveals-Startling-Truth/dp/0984457801/ref=oosr) was supposedly channeled through an anonymous 80 year old woman. "In this astonishing book of letters dictated by the Christ Consciousness in the year 2000, Christ refutes religious dogma and explains in lucid and concrete terms the spiritual and scientific Truth of Existence, and how to connect through daily meditation with Divine Consciousness and overcome the dominance of the ego."

I read parts of it and found some of it interesting, but he mentions his death by crucifixion often, which sets up a red flag for me because of Seth's explanation of the event. Here are a couple of interesting quotes though.

"I realized there was nothing solid in the universe, everything visible was manifesting a differing ‘state of consciousness’ which determined the composition and form of the ‘shimmer of motes’. Therefore, all outer form was an expression of the inner consciousness."

. . .

"Your human mindset (including any religious ideas or beliefs) determines your world, your relationships, experiences, successes, failures, happiness and misery. It is even responsible for your sickness, disease and accidents. Nothing happens by chance. Everything is woven out of the inner threads of your personal consciousness – thoughts, expectations, beliefs in life, fate, “God”. You live in a world of your own making."

from Letter One (http://christreturns.org/letter-one/)
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: chasman on October 14, 2017, 08:48:10 PM
looks interesting.
please tell us if you have any more thoughts about this, would you Deb?
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Deb on October 16, 2017, 06:37:39 PM
Quote from: chasman (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=9984#msg9984)
please tell us if you have any more thoughts about this

Unfortunately, while some of the information in the book (I've not read it all, have merely skipped around) does fit within the teachings of Seth, a lot of it feels preachy and religion based. Quotes from the bible are used, which makes me uncomfortable because I've never felt the bible was all that reliable—I've read enough differing opinions on the origins/purpose, specifically of the new testament.

From the Latter Days (http://christreturns.org/the-latter-days/):

"You have become so accustomed to DARKNESS, you no longer recognize it.
Your world is rife with war-wracked nations. It is heavy, heavy, heavy with gross mental and emotional vibrational frequencies of selfishness and a total disregard for life. Your streets are now thoroughfares of danger, of road rage, of jealous muggers envious of the possessions of others, of stalking predators eager to conquer and control others through use of sexual force."

Not exactly life in a safe universe. Then, there is this commercial break (http://christreturns.org/urgent-message-from-christ/), a tirade about Iraq and Saddam Hussein, the USA and later 911/Twin Towers.

"Here you had a man, Saddam Hussein who was determined to take power in Iraq and bring about peace and plenty for his people. Unevolved in true spirituality, he used most harsh and violent ways to control a nation, to silence those people who gave him problems. These people used violence in an uprising against him and he poured violence back on them. Here were a tyrannical Dictator and a sect of people of the same mental and moral level – their spiritual vibrations, despite all the prayer and outward religious show, were as dark and dense and low as it is possible to attain in your world today. Hussein and these unruly people deserved each other."

(Goes on to implicate the USA...)

"It is certain that NO ONE truly on the path of CHRIST’S WAY – MY WAY – would ever have followed such a sadistic course. Faced with the problem of having to deal with a Saddam Hussein, such a leader, enlightened in the spiritual and scientific Laws of Existence, would have called a session of enlightened people to meet to meditate and to ask for guidance."

For me, case closed. Another wolf in sheep's clothing. By the way, that's from the bible. And that's the truth. Pffft.

https://youtu.be/jJMKupYF14I

PS
Seth remains my home base.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: chasman on October 16, 2017, 07:25:18 PM
wow Deb.
super grateful for your reply.
I am part way through letter 1.
the stuff that I like, has me ready to embrace it wholeheartedly,and really stoked to read the whole book.
there is a lot that really resonates with me. and then there's stuff I don't like.
some kind of fakeness, not really sure how to say it here, grasping for words to describe. and not finding them at the moment.
maybe far fetched. hokey.
really hard to believe that the main man (JC), is back dictating this book to the recorder. hmmmm. tough one to grok here.
so I super extra super appreciate your thoughts. I think you helped me get my feet back on the ground. you are awesome.
sincerely,
Charlie
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Deb on October 16, 2017, 07:59:38 PM
Quote from: chasman (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=9991#msg9991)
some kind of fakeness

Yes, I have to agree.

And your use of grok...
totally blew me away. Thank you for that.

I read that book when I was a teen, maybe 15.
I STILL have the book.
The only other books I've held onto that long were by Lovecraft.
No need to explain how much Stranger impressed me.
I have no idea how I came across it. Maybe it opened my mind?
First copyright 1961. I paid $1.50 US for it. As a used book in the 70s.
It's still in fairly good condition.

Time to read it again?
I think so.

I'm excited at the prospect.
It may have been the one book that set me on the path to Seth.

Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: chasman on October 16, 2017, 09:09:00 PM
wow. extra mucho awesome wowness!!!
you are amazing to the moon and the stars!!!
Stranger in a Strange Land had the most huge effect on me as a teenager.
cannot overestimate its influence on a young version of moi.

I am happy for you to be excited to read it again.

Jubal Harshaw and Valentine Michael Smith. wow.

the other book, that had an incalculably large influence on me (aside from all the Seth books), was Richard Bach's Illusions: Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah.
hmmmm.check the pattern of themes here. Messiah in that book, I seem to recall something about Messiah stuff in the Stranger in a Strange Land book (its been a few decades now since I read it, and I forget), and then the Christ Consciousness book.

and isn't grok a cool word/concept?


Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Sena on October 17, 2017, 06:27:39 AM
Quote from: Deb (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=9990#msg9990)
Faced with the problem of having to deal with a Saddam Hussein, such a leader, enlightened in the spiritual and scientific Laws of Existence, would have called a session of enlightened people to meet to meditate and to ask for guidance."

For me, case closed. Another wolf in sheep's clothing.
Interesting quote. Neville Goddard wrote repeatedly that the best way is to imagine the desired outcome vividly, but NOT to bother with the method by which that outcome is achieved. So we imagine a state of peace and prosperity but should not bother with calling "a session of enlightened people".
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Deb on October 17, 2017, 08:25:25 AM
Quote from: chasman (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=9993#msg9993)
the other book, that had an incalculably large influence on me (aside from all the Seth books), was Richard Bach's Illusions: Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah.

Another great book. I ended buying that one probably 3 times because people would borrow it and not return it. I'd want to read it again and so would buy another copy. You know Bach met with Jane, with questions about his Seagull book? That book was channeled. More here: https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?topic=407 There was even an article written about him in Time magazine, mentioning Jane, Rob and Seth.

And yes grok is a cool word, and probably the word I've been searching for that better explains the sudden Knowing or Understanding that happens often. Mike Dooley uses "spontaneous enlightenment," I like that too.

Quote from: Sena (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=9994#msg9994)
Interesting quote. Neville Goddard wrote repeatedly that the best way is to imagine the desired outcome vividly, but NOT to bother with the method by which that outcome is achieved. So we imagine a state of peace and prosperity but should not bother with calling "a session of enlightened people".

There were a lot of things on that Urgent Message page that were fishy to me. Personal grievance stuff, not something such an enlightened being would be saying.

PS I just visited Bach's web site. Looks like they're working on an interactive app for the Seagull book. What fun! Actually, http://richardbach.com/a-new-and-modern-vision-of-jonathans-forever-principles/  I actually never did see the actual movie.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: chasman on October 17, 2017, 07:17:02 PM
Quote from: Deb (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=9995#msg9995)
Another great book. I ended buying that one probably 3 times because people would borrow it and not return it. I'd want to read it again and so would buy another copy. You know Bach met with Jane, with questions about his Seagull book? That book was channeled. More here: https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?topic=407 There was even an article written about him in Time magazine, mentioning Jane, Rob and Seth.

And yes grok is a cool word, and probably the word I've been searching for that better explains the sudden Knowing or Understanding that happens often. Mike Dooley uses "spontaneous enlightenment," I like that too.

awesome. thank you very much for all of that Deb.
I remember reading with great fondness, other books by Richard Bach.
fascinating about him and Jane and Seth and Rob.
grok seems like a real Sethian kind of thing.
I'm not familiar with Mike Dooley. Can you recommend anything by him?
and I read more of the Christ Returns letter 1 today.
have become disenchanted.
I like the way you phrased it, when you said Seth is your home base.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: chasman on October 17, 2017, 07:18:19 PM
Quote from: strangerthings (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=10000#msg10000)
If the teachings you are looking upon do not lead you back to yourself as Creator then run from them and run fast


really really good. thank you st.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Deb on October 17, 2017, 08:01:32 PM
Quote from: chasman (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=9993#msg9993)
I am happy for you to be excited to read it again.

I started reading it again tonight, but I realized it was probably available as audio on YouTube that I can listen to when I'm doing... whatever. Found it. So I have been listening while making myself dinner, surprised at the technology or at least anticipated technology at the time of writing (1961). Then I started to wonder why it was not made into a movie, and voilà, SyFy already has it in the works! http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/stranger-a-strange-land-tv-series-works-at-syfy-947671 Woo hoo! Since I've given up regular TV, I imagine I will have to find another way to watch. I don't know if you live in the US or elsewhere, so can't comment beyond that.

As far as Mike Dooley... his story is very interesting and he is totally on board with Seth, mentions Seth and Jane Roberts in his own books, has his own presentation or angle of "you create your own reality." Just another angle on the Seth materials, but he is enthusiastic and creative and definitely a worthy read from my own perspective. I signed up for his Notes from the Universe http://www.tut.com/Inspiration/nftu, and a lot of those are timely and stellar. Check out: https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?topic=1078.msg9326#msg9326 and https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?topic=1053.msg9180#msg9180.

I've read his book Infinite Possibilities and could easily recommend that.


Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: chasman on October 17, 2017, 08:49:23 PM
Quote from: Deb (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=10003#msg10003)
Quote from: chasman (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=9993#msg9993)
I am happy for you to be excited to read it again.

I started reading it again tonight, but I realized it was probably available as audio on YouTube that I can listen to when I'm doing... whatever. Found it. So I have been listening while making myself dinner, surprised at the technology or at least anticipated technology at the time of writing (1961). Then I started to wonder why it was not made into a movie, and voilà, SyFy already has it in the works! http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/stranger-a-strange-land-tv-series-works-at-syfy-947671 Woo hoo! Since I've given up regular TV, I imagine I will have to find another way to watch. I don't know if you live in the US or elsewhere, so can't comment beyond that.

As far as Mike Dooley... his story is very interesting and he is totally on board with Seth, mentions Seth and Jane Roberts in his own books, has his own presentation or angle of "you create your own reality." Just another angle on the Seth materials, but he is enthusiastic and creative and definitely a worthy read from my own perspective. I signed up for his Notes from the Universe http://www.tut.com/Inspiration/nftu, and a lot of those are timely and stellar. Check out: https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?topic=1078.msg9326#msg9326 and https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?topic=1053.msg9180#msg9180.

I've read his book Infinite Possibilities and could easily recommend that.




you are soooooo awesome!!!!
thank you so much for all of that Deb!!!!!!
I also do not watch TV.
will check out Mike Dooley. looking very forward to it.
you are very kind and good.
Charlie
and I live in the US, in NY State.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: chasman on October 17, 2017, 09:09:03 PM
Quote from: Deb (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=10003#msg10003)
I signed up for his Notes from the Universe

I just signed up for Notes from the Universe. thank you again Deb.  :)
and just read your 2 links.
I'm in.   :)
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Deb on October 28, 2017, 05:53:04 PM
This is sort of related to this topic. I could have put it under "other authors" but since I haven't actually read the book, I'll put this here for the time being.

I did a little wiki research on Byron Katie this morning. Her husband, Stephen Mitchell, is an author and translator, has written a variety of books, many of them being new translations of various classics and spiritual writings such as the Iliad, Tao Ching, Bhagavad Gita, Genesis, more. Under his Non-Fiction category is The Gospel According to Jesus (https://stephenmitchellbooks.com/non-fiction/the-gospel-according-to-jesus/). "Mr. Mitchell has retained only the authentic sayings and doings of Jesus, and has omitted the passages added by the early church. What is left is an immensely provocative and moving image of Jesus as a real person and as a great spiritual teacher, an image that will challenge and delight readers of any religion or of no religion." There is an explanation in the Intro that explains how he 'knew' what is authentic and what is not.

As the original gospels (I think) were written in Aramaic or Hebrew, the Greek may be the first translation that muddied the waters, but as far as I know it's the closest thing we have to the originals writings. Sorry I'm so vague about this, but religion and the Bible were never my thing.

Well, the book does sound interesting.

I read a good portion of the introduction under Excerpts on the page link above. It makes Jesus sound like a Speaker. I enjoyed this quote from Thomas Jefferson:

"The whole history of these books [the Gospels] is so defective and doubtful that it seems vain to attempt minute enquiry into it: and such tricks have been played with their text, and with the texts of other books relating to them, that we have a right, from that cause, to entertain much doubt what parts of them are genuine. In the New Testament there is internal evidence that parts of it have proceeded from an extraordinary man; and that other parts are of the fabric of very inferior minds. It is as easy to separate those parts, as to pick out diamonds from dunghills." (To John Adams, January 24, 1814)

Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: chasman on October 28, 2017, 09:00:00 PM
very interesting Jefferson quote.
Deb, I remember reading years ago, that Jefferson went through a Bible with a scissors and cut out all the stuff that he thought was bogus, and thus made whats called the Jefferson Bible.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Joelr on November 25, 2017, 08:28:43 PM
Hi,

Wondering if anyone cares to comment on this.

I've always been a huge Seth fan but have gotten away from him for some time while I've investigated a bit of science and skeptical ideas.
As I come back to reading Seth I've got some issues that I just can't shake, especially what he's said about Christ.

"Christ, the historical Christ, was not crucified.He had no intention of dying in that manner; "

First, Seth speaks of Christ several times as if he was definitely an actual person. Right now the mythicist theory is looking like the most probable - meaning Christ was not even a real man. (for more on that watch some of PHD Richard Carrier's debates)

" Paul was to implement the spiritual ideas  of Christ in physical terms, however he grew the seeds of an organization that would smother the ideas. "

Scholarship considers Acts to be unreliable historically so all we have from Paul is from the letters to Corinthians. Paul actually never speaks of a physical Christ or shows any knowledge of his earthly teachings. All of the knowledge from Paul comes from "revelations" (or scripture) and it's likely that Paul believed Jesus was crucified in what was then known as the lower heavens or the firmament.
This doesn't directly go against what Seth is saying but nothing from Paul "smothered" the ideas of Jesus. That came much later, all Paul spoke of was a death and resurrection of Jesus which he became aware of through revelation (hallucination) and scripture.



"He would be sacrificed to make the old Jewish prophecies come true, and he could not be dissuaded."

What troubles me here is complete lack of knowledge of the fact that the entire sin redeemer demi-god mythology came directly from cultural diffusion and not from Jewish prophecies.
That died/resurrected in 3 days, redeem sins, defeat death, virgin born, sky-father demigod mythology started with Zoroastrianism and then moved to multiple cultures each with their own version - Romulus, Osirus, Zalmoxus, and eventually a Jewish version emerged which was Christianity. Judaism had no afterlife or warring factions (heaven vs hell) until it was adopted from these other mythologies.


"Each of the twelve represented qualities of personality  that belong to one individual, and Christ as you know him represented the inner self. The twelve, therefore, plus Christ as you know him (the one figure composed of the three) represented an individual earthly personality - the inner self - and twelve main characteristics connected with the egotistical self. "

Well actually the 12 disciples are found in all of the Christ-like religions and go back even much further. We now know that the 12 originally was the 12 zodiac.
It's 12 because of 12 bright stars.



"......gospel was a forgery"

I forgot which gospel Seth called a forgery but it doesn't matter at all because that statement makes zero sense in any context. All of the gospels start with the Greek phrase for "as told to me by" (kata memori...?) so right there we know none of them were actually written by their namesake.
Scholars have also established from writing styles and repeats of historical mistakes that all of the gospels are basically re-writes of Mark. But Mark wasn't written for at least 30 years after the death of Jesus and we know that around 50% of early Christianity was Gnostic so at the very least all of that stuff was left out of Mark.

Again it's just a Jewish re-write of redeemer god mythology anyways so the idea that one gospel is a "forgery" is silly. If Seth means "forgery" in the sense that the author didn't write it then that's actually the case for ALL the gospels.


"n the Last Supper when Christ said, "This is my body, and this is my blood," He meant to show that the spirit was within all matter, interconnected, and yet apart--that His own spirit was independent of His body, and also in His own way to hint that He should no longer be identified with His body. "

Last suppers are standard mythological themes and are in Christianity because it's part of an important parable, not because it happened?!
Body and blood references are even more common themes in mythology. Everyone knows that many ancient cultures performed ritual sacrifice and sometimes would actually consume the persons who were sacrificed. Sometimes it would be to gain their powers of youthfulness or maybe the gods just willed it.
Either way it's obviously revolting and primitive. Especially to modern forward-thinking Christians. What Christians often fail to realize is that at communion you eat the body and blood of Jesus. Early Christians believed that the communion wafer and wine actually transformed into the body and blood of Jesus.
Even if you don't think that to be true the ritual of communion is a direct leftover of consuming the sacrificed person.

Christ never said "This is my body, and this is my blood,", this is the most obvious cultural diffusion of mythological themes here you can possibly get. You sacrifice the demigod so the sky god will grant you a favor. This one gets your sins forgiven. Then you eat the sacrificed. This is where this theme was put into Christianity.
This theme was not created to show that the spirit was within all matter but even if it was Seth seems to have no idea that these are parables and mythological characters.

"Your Christ figure represents, symbolically, your idea of God and his relationships. There were three separate individuals whose history blended, and they became known collectively as Christ - hence many discrepancies in your records. These were all males because at that time of your development, you would not have accepted a female counterpart."

No actually there were some female redeemer demigods who died for sins.

There really aren't any discrepancies in our records (gospels) that would suggest 3 Christ. There is just Mark and then each re-write just adds more and more supernatural wu-wu. Each one tries to outdo the last.




The overall point here is that this "Seth on Jesus" section is very troubling to me. I really feel that had Seth actually been able to see into that past and divine these very specific things he puts forth he should have also been able to talk about some of the things we now know to be historically accurate.
Back in the 70's some of this bible historicity was not at all well known for obvious reasons. So Jane didn't have access to it. The overall tone of Seth's biblical knowledge is just so inaccurate that I have to believe Jane just made it up.
My problem is it's calling into question other Seth material.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Sena on November 25, 2017, 09:57:22 PM
Quote from: Joelr (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=10319#msg10319)
I've always been a huge Seth fan but have gotten away from him for some time while I've investigated a bit of science and skeptical ideas.
As I come back to reading Seth I've got some issues that I just can't shake, especially what he's said about Christ.
Hi Joel, welcome to the forum. Yes, I agree that Seth's statements on Christ are problematic. Seth did not claim to be omniscient, so it could be that some of his statements about Christ are simply wrong. It appears that he was not familiar with the New Testament scholarship of the past 100 years.

I find some of the statements made by Nietzsche in "The Antichrist" quite interesting. Nietzsche had a lot of respect for Jesus, but not for the "Christ" invented by St. Paul. I don't think Nietzsche thought of himself as the Antichrist. That was probably his name for the R.C and Lutheran Churches. Some quotes from Nietzsche:

"Every one is the child of God--Jesus claims nothing for himself alone--as the child of God each man is the
equal of every other man."
"Jesus himself had done away with the very concept of "guilt," he denied that there was any gulf fixed between
God and man; he lived this unity between God and man, and that was precisely his "glad tidings".

https://archive.org/stream/theantichrist19322gut/19322.txt

Nietzsche wrote The Antichrist in 1888, so he obviously had only a limited amount of objective New Testament scholarship to rely on.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Deb on November 26, 2017, 09:18:09 AM
Quote from: Joelr (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=10319#msg10319)
First, Seth speaks of Christ several times as if he was definitely an actual person. Right now the mythicist theory is looking like the most probable - meaning Christ was not even a real man. (for more on that watch some of PHD Richard Carrier's debates)

Hi Joelr, welcome to the forum. Thanks for your post, lots to respond to in there! For now, let me just offer this and I'll address more later. I had a problem with Seth using the name Christ because the figure we call Christ is actually named Jesus (in English), his title was "the Christ" -- meaning the anointed one. So Jesus Christ. But in modern days we refer to the person as either Christ OR Jesus interchangeably and it seems Seth sometimes does the same. Seth has often said he must speak to us in our terms and language, so maybe that's why.

But what Seth says about the Christ became clearer for me due to the quote I'll add below. He is referring to Christ as 'your Christ figure' or 'the Christ personality'-- Seth has often said he speaks to us in words and terminology that we will understand. He is saying that what we think of as Christ a person is really a symbol combined of three individuals (personalities) that did exist, Jesus, John the Baptist, Paul. So in this Seth is saying the Christ was not a real, living person, but instead a symbol. I'm not clear whether he's saying below that the disciples were actually living. He said they were fully endowed with individuality--do I assume that also means taking physical form? Or are they a part of the Christ entity, as the three are? The return of the Christ personality would mean a human possessing all of the characteristics of the three (and 12?), and then some. Pretty intense.

• "The three Christ personalities were born upon your planet, and indeed became flesh among you. None of these was crucified. The twelve disciples were materializations from the energies of these three personalities — their combined energies. They were then fully endowed with individuality, however, but their main task was to clearly manifest within themselves certain abilities inherent within all men."

• "Each of the twelve represented qualities of personality that belong to one individual, and Christ as you know him represented the inner self. The twelve, therefore, plus Christ as you know him (the one figure composed of the three) represented an individual earthly personality — the inner self — and twelve main characteristics connected with the egotistical self. As Christ was surrounded by the disciples, so the inner self is surrounded by these physically oriented characteristics, each drawn outward toward daily reality on the one hand, and yet orbiting the inner self."

• "(9:46.) Your Christ figure represents, symbolically, your idea of God and his relationships. There were three separate individuals whose history blended, and they became known collectively as Christ — hence many discrepancies in your records. These were all males because at that time of your development, you would not have accepted a female counterpart."

—SS Chapter 14: Session 560, November 23, 1970

And this too:

"(10:37.) In a manner of speaking, again, there was no one Christ, historically speaking, but the personage of Christ, or the entity, was the reality from which the entire dramatic story emerged."
—TPS4 Deleted Session January 23, 1978

I have access to some unpublished Seth material talking about the Christ, I'll take a look in there and see if there's anything helpful.

I have a non-Seth book buried somewhere that says the gospels were created to be used as teaching references in church, broken down into sections so they could be taught over the span of a calendar year. I'm not explaining that clearly, but basically they were not mystical and more practical in nature. I'm going to track down the book so I can share what it said, it made sense to me. The first may have been Mark, the rest would have been hand copied, the information tailored by the church that used them, and attributed to the other disciples after the fact. This (https://thechurchoftruth.org/synoptic-gospels-not-writen-by-matt-mark-luke-or-john/) is pretty interesting.

I have to admit that there have been times when I've questioned whether Jane's religious background has affected some of the messages she streamed from Seth.

Quote from: Joelr (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=10319#msg10319)
Well actually the 12 disciples are found in all of the Christ-like religions and go back even much further. We now know that the 12 originally was the 12 zodiac.
It's 12 because of 12 bright stars.

There were Speakers that go back long before the time of Jesus, et al. Not directly related to the Christ story, but Seth does talk about how information gets distorted over the ages (not to mention how Speakers had to communicate with the people over the ages in terms they could understand). Hah, I just had a vision of a caveman Seth streaming through a cavewoman Jane, caveman Rob finger painting his notes on a wall. Maybe I'll try to sketch that later.  :o

"What I will tell you has been told before throughout the centuries, and given again when it was forgotten. I hope to clarify many points that have been distorted throughout the years." SS, Session 511

"The concept itself existed long before Christianity's initiation, and was told in various forms throughout the centuries and in all civilizations." NoPR, Session 646

Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: transient amnesia on November 26, 2017, 12:52:39 PM
...
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Sena on November 26, 2017, 09:21:17 PM
Quote from: transient amnesia (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=10324#msg10324)
My feeling was that Seth used those examples as it was how Jane was brought up and 'speaking to her understanding'.
TA, I think I can agree with that. The picture is useful. The "true energetic self" would be equivalent to what Seth refers to as "The Entity". How I visualize it is that that the diagram can be extended all the way up to "All That Is". Christ, if he exists, would be one Entity among many others. There was a member here named Voidypaul who suggested that Seth Two might be Christ (if I understood him correctly). I imagine that the real Christ, if he exists, would be very different to the caricature invented by Saint Paul.

This is one quote from Voidypaul:

https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?topic=669.msg6111;topicseen#msg6111

"You know , things like that , things that will quite frankly blow our tiny minds , of course , + of course it seems to be something of a mystery to most what on earth this all might consist of or how it will come about but i think there are many clues in the Seth works themselves about the potentials of the true inner self + the entity , for us to be able  to imagine a 'future' personality with abilities we can only dream of right now ,a personality we might percieve in the teachings of Seth + Seth 2 ."

(I see that Voidypaul is still a member, although he stopped posting last January)

P.S. When I read this quote I realize that Voidypaul was NOT identifying Seth Two with Christ. He seemed to be saying that Christ is much "greater" than Seth Two.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Joelr on November 27, 2017, 04:00:35 AM
Quote from: Sena (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=10320#msg10320)

Hi Joel, welcome to the forum. Yes, I agree that Seth's statements on Christ are problematic. Seth did not claim to be omniscient, so it could be that some of his statements about Christ are simply wrong. It appears that he was not familiar with the New Testament scholarship of the past 100 years.

I find some of the statements made by Nietzsche in "The Antichrist" quite interesting. Nietzsche had a lot of respect for Jesus, but not for the "Christ" invented by St. Paul. I don't think Nietzsche thought of himself as the Antichrist. That was probably his name for the R.C and Lutheran Churches. Some quotes from Nietzsche:

"Every one is the child of God--Jesus claims nothing for himself alone--as the child of God each man is the
equal of every other man."
"Jesus himself had done away with the very concept of "guilt," he denied that there was any gulf fixed between
God and man; he lived this unity between God and man, and that was precisely his "glad tidings".

https://archive.org/stream/theantichrist19322gut/19322.txt

Nietzsche wrote The Antichrist in 1888, so he obviously had only a limited amount of objective New Testament scholarship to rely on.

That's more like Eastern philosophy Nietzsche is leaning towards. He does mention Hindu castes in The AntiChrist. Jesus does teach that "god is already in everyone" type ideology in the Thomas Gospel. It's easy to see why the Roman Bishops wanted those ideas out of Christianity. They are also found in Gnostic writings which were part of early Christianity. Elaine Pagels writes some great books about the lost gospels and Gnostic Christian beliefs.

According to the Dead Sea Scrools Nietzsche was correct. I think he was just smart enough to know Jesus was teaching Gnostic/Eastern ideas and what emerged out of later years was a Christianity used to control the masses.

If you check out Lost Gospels by Pagels you'll see a very different picture of early Christianity, it's Eastern thinking Gnostics vs traditional Christian bishops who want control over the masses. It's made very obvious why these bishops wanted a particular Christian canon to be law because it set up an internal power structure within Christianity. Only certain people could teach and interpret the gospels. So that confirms Nietzsche.

That's more stuff I feel like Seth would know. I do recognize that Seth did not claim to be omniscient, but my issue isn't omniscience but that he does seem to know very specific details. Which are also wrong. It would be one thing if Seth simply said the whole Christ saga was fuzzy to him but he is often so specific it's like he has a window to see exactly what was going on. Which really suggests he would be more on track with historical data y'know?
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Joelr on November 27, 2017, 04:45:32 AM
Quote from: Deb (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=10322#msg10322)


Hi Joelr, welcome to the forum. Thanks for your post, lots to respond to in there! For now, let me just offer this and I'll address more later. I had a problem with Seth using the name Christ because the figure we call Christ is actually named Jesus (in English), his title was "the Christ" -- meaning the anointed one. So Jesus Christ. But in modern days we refer to the person as either Christ OR Jesus interchangeably and it seems Seth sometimes does the same. Seth has often said he must speak to us in our terms and language, so maybe that's why.



But what Seth says about the Christ became clearer for me due to the quote I'll add below. He is referring to Christ as 'your Christ figure' or 'the Christ personality'-- Seth has often said he speaks to us in words and terminology that we will understand. He is saying that what we think of as Christ a person is really a symbol combined of three individuals (personalities) that did exist, Jesus, John the Baptist, Paul. So in this Seth is saying the Christ was not a real, living person, but instead a symbol. I'm not clear whether he's saying below that the disciples were actually living. He said they were fully endowed with individuality--do I assume that also means taking physical form? Or are they a part of the Christ entity, as the three are? The return of the Christ personality would mean a human possessing all of the characteristics of the three (and 12?), and then some. Pretty intense.


That's true about the "Jesus Christ" name.
It would have been way cooler had Seth mentioned that "Jesus" was really just a Jewish re-hash of messiah mythology and the actual name comes from Jewish angelology itself. Jesus was already an angel in Judaism who was killed and re-born in the firmament or lower heavens battling ....possibly Lucifer? Which is probably what Paul was talking about. Christian scholars often balk at this idea as if it's completely unfounded. Until one points out that events often took place in these lower heavens including some original stories about Adam and Eve.



Quote from: Deb (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=10322#msg10322)
• "The three Christ personalities were born upon your planet, and indeed became flesh among you. None of these was crucified. The twelve disciples were materializations from the energies of these three personalities — their combined energies. They were then fully endowed with individuality, however, but their main task was to clearly manifest within themselves certain abilities inherent within all men."

• "Each of the twelve represented qualities of personality that belong to one individual, and Christ as you know him represented the inner self. The twelve, therefore, plus Christ as you know him (the one figure composed of the three) represented an individual earthly personality — the inner self — and twelve main characteristics connected with the egotistical self. As Christ was surrounded by the disciples, so the inner self is surrounded by these physically oriented characteristics, each drawn outward toward daily reality on the one hand, and yet orbiting the inner self."

• "(9:46.) Your Christ figure represents, symbolically, your idea of God and his relationships. There were three separate individuals whose history blended, and they became known collectively as Christ — hence many discrepancies in your records. These were all males because at that time of your development, you would not have accepted a female counterpart."

—SS Chapter 14: Session 560, November 23, 1970

And this too:

"(10:37.) In a manner of speaking, again, there was no one Christ, historically speaking, but the personage of Christ, or the entity, was the reality from which the entire dramatic story emerged."
—TPS4 Deleted Session January 23, 1978




I'm not sure what's up with "3" Christ personalities? There are many other pre-Christian demigods who died and resurrected for personal sins who were not part of a trinity and I don't think Jesus was either. That honestly seems like Jane being influenced by the more modern Trinity in Christianity.
That was just a way to keep Christianity from having multiple gods which was a concept that was going out of favor.

As far as the "12 personalities" I have to say that's just super wrong. 12 apostles is in so many mystery religions and goes right back to Sun worship. The field is astrotheology I think? Anyways, this is for sure not 12 anything except 12 zodiac stars. It's astrology!

There was a female demigod who did the same things Christ did, Osirus. Yaweh also DID have a female counterpart Ashera.

Quote from: Deb (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=10322#msg10322)

I have a non-Seth book buried somewhere that says the gospels were created to be used as teaching references in church, broken down into sections so they could be taught over the span of a calendar year. I'm not explaining that clearly, but basically they were not mystical and more practical in nature. I'm going to track down the book so I can share what it said, it made sense to me. The first may have been Mark, the rest would have been hand copied, the information tailored by the church that used them, and attributed to the other disciples after the fact. This (https://thechurchoftruth.org/synoptic-gospels-not-writen-by-matt-mark-luke-or-john/) is pretty interesting.

I have to admit that there have been times when I've questioned whether Jane's religious background has affected some of the messages she streamed from Seth.


I have been enjoying listening to debates by PHD Richard Carrier who is laying out the mythicist theory in a way that has withstood all opposing Christian scholars as well as opposing PHD historians who argue that Jesus was not divine but at least was a real man.

But Richard is also debunking a lot of amateur literature about bible historicity that I was fond of. Like D.M. Murdocks work and every previous mythicist theory.
But Rich is using facts to show why these previous theories are not accurate. So I have to let them go. At this point I would approach material on the Gospels carefully. There are some additional reasons why I'm trusting Carrier's work which he explains very clearly. They have to do with reasons why scholars in that field approach change with caution because there are still many diehard Christians with administrative positions that can influence peoples careers in a bad way.
Also he is actually the fist PHD to do a historicity study (8 year project) in a long time. So many of the ideas in the field are remnants of a different time (1920's was the last PHD work on the gospels).


Quote from: Deb (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=10322#msg10322)
There were Speakers that go back long before the time of Jesus, et al. Not directly related to the Christ story, but Seth does talk about how information gets distorted over the ages (not to mention how Speakers had to communicate with the people over the ages in terms they could understand). Hah, I just had a vision of a caveman Seth streaming through a cavewoman Jane, caveman Rob finger painting his notes on a wall. Maybe I'll try to sketch that later.  :o

"What I will tell you has been told before throughout the centuries, and given again when it was forgotten. I hope to clarify many points that have been distorted throughout the years." SS, Session 511

"The concept itself existed long before Christianity's initiation, and was told in various forms throughout the centuries and in all civilizations." NoPR, Session 646



Seth is right about the concept existing long before Christianity. But he doesn't seem to be aware that that personal sin demigod gaining power over death and redeeming his followers from sin was all the rage moving from Persia to the Thrasians, into Egypt, Greece, Rome and eventually a Jewish version emerged which was lucky to become the Roman official religion.
People in America in the 60's did not have access to this knowledge. Now Seth seemed to have direct knowledge about early Christianity so I can't get past the fact that his history is so off.

A lot of his physics concepts HAVE emerged into physics since the 70's. Especially in the 90's and beyond. A book was written comparing Seths physics to Mystical thinking and to David Bohm's quantum physics. I could also write a book on the parallels. Except his "EE particles" are a little derivative of electromagnetism and also don't explain anything except add another layer of complexity.
I do feel if Seth were legit he would fix our biggest problem in Physics and unify gravity and quantum mechanics.
But I know Jane wasn't a scientist so her vocabulary is limited. It bugs me that he never offered any real solutions to the quantum mysteries but he did put forth some stuff that later became part of conceptual physics. So this one has promise. The religious stuff is what bothers me.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Joelr on November 27, 2017, 05:04:02 AM
Quote from: transient amnesia (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=10324#msg10324)
Hi Joel  :)
Good'morn'n everyone.

I'd like to add a picture here as to how I understood what Seth was saying about the christ 'energy' so to speak.

(https://i2.wp.com/bigpicturequestions.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/TESAspectShardIridescent-copy.jpg)

It's explained in Oversoul 7.... I have not read the Bible. TLTR... My feeling was that Seth used those examples as it was how Jane was brought up and 'speaking to her understanding'.

So my thing with this is we know for sure "12" is in all religions and dates back to Sumerian? astrology. It's 12 zodiac.
The idea that there just happen to be 12 personalities or anything else like that is far too much of a coincidence.

Yes the ancients though there were possibly 12 aspects to a personality (maybe) but it's not based on metaphysics, it's because they were stunned by the 12 stars and the big sun sitting there in the middle of the sky that gave us heat and life. These 12 stars moving around every year were the biggest mysteries to early humans and probably proto-humans.

It's likely that in the 60's Jane thought - like most Christians - that all these concepts like "12" apostles were original to Christianity and might have metaphysical meaning. Even the "carpenter demigod" is not original to Christianity.
It's just astrology and I'm disappointed that Seth tried to make significance of it.

Maybe it was Jane trying to add stuff to what Seth was giving, I dont' know?? I was always a big Seth fan and have re-read Seth Speaks and NOPR probably 20 times back in the 90's.

I'm a little jaded because as of late I've debunked SO much stuff in the UFO field and have studied stuff about people who were prominent ESP people. There are writings that pump this stuff up but allowing myself to also read what intelligent skeptics have to say it doesn't pan out as real. Statistics are abused and studies that show bad results are ignored when people write pro-ESP books. Like that book "The Field" by Lynn Taggart?. She abused and ignored so many studies. As does some of the UFO writers.
And you can go on youtube and watch Derren Brown destroy psychics. And cold-reading mediums, I'm not even going there.

All of the Seth criticism I've read so far however hasn't really debunked Seth at all. Seths work alone does give it credibility. I'm gonna just ignore the thing about Jane channeling that other dude. I can't deal with that right now.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: LenKop on November 27, 2017, 05:57:14 AM
Welcome Joelr,

It's difficult to argue with linear time. Particularly when we are absorbed by it. Some of the statements seem to be cemented in history so therefore must be correct, and if Seth mentions anything that doesn't follow what has been discovered then he is wrong.
Quote from: Joelr (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=10329#msg10329)
but my issue isn't omniscience but that he does seem to know very specific details. Which are also wrong. It would be one thing if Seth simply said the whole Christ saga was fuzzy to him but he is often so specific it's like he has a window to see exactly what was going on. Which really suggests he would be more on track with historical data y'know?
Perhaps historical data has not caught up with him yet? Ever wondered why so many 'Lost Gospels' and 'Lost Scriptures' and 'Lost this and that' have been discovered? Maybe they haven't been 'discovered' but created by us in the present moment to fit the needs and beliefs we share en masse at the moment. Seth always mentions that there are no closed systems of consciousness, that includes our future and our past. Besides, historians are constantly changing their views on the past, ironically, without even noticing that they just might be actually changing the past.
Quote from: Joelr (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=10319#msg10319)
First, Seth speaks of Christ several times as if he was definitely an actual person. Right now the mythicist theory is looking like the most probable - meaning Christ was not even a real man.
'The story of the Creation, as Biblically stated, is the symbolic representation of a master event - a legend that became its own event, of course, forming about it whole arts and cultures, religions and disciplines. The same applies to Christianity itself, for all of the seemingly historical events connected with the official Christ did not happen in physical reality. They happened at another level of actuality, and were inserted into your time framework - touching a character here, a definitely known historical event there, until the two lines of activity were so entwined that you could not unravel one without unraveling the other.' D,E & VF sess 928

There's an entire chapter on Myths in Mass Events, here's a bit...

'Myth is not a distortion of fact, but the womb through which fact must come. Myth involves an intrinsic understanding of the nature of reality, couched in imaginative terms, carrying a power as strong as nature itself. Myth-making is a natural psychic characteristic, a psychic element that combines with other such elements to form a mythical representation of inner reality. That representation is then used as model upon which your civilizations are organized, and also as a perceptive tool through whose lens you interpret the private events of your own life in their historical context.' Mass Events sess 817

Quote from: Joelr (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=10319#msg10319)
What troubles me here is complete lack of knowledge of the fact that the entire sin redeemer demi-god mythology came directly from cultural diffusion and not from Jewish prophecies.
That died/resurrected in 3 days, redeem sins, defeat death, virgin born, sky-father demigod mythology started with Zoroastrianism and then moved to multiple cultures each with their own version - Romulus, Osirus, Zalmoxus, and eventually a Jewish version emerged which was Christianity. Judaism had no afterlife or warring factions (heaven vs hell) until it was adopted from these other mythologies.

Why do say complete lack of knowledge? I haven't mentioned one thing in regard to music, does that mean I have a complete lack of knowledge about music? Perhaps Seth knew his market better than we give him credit for. What's the point about harping on about Zoroastrianism when the majority of readers will have no interest in it? Telling the world that Christ was this and Christ was that will surely prick up more ears in the western world during the 20th century. Having said that, he does mention the Speakers..

'The Druids obtained some of their concepts from Speakers. So did the Egyptians. The Speakers predated the emergence of any religions that you know, and the religions of the Speakers arose spontaneously in many scattered areas, then grew like wildfire from the hearts of Africa and Australia. There was one separate group in an area where the Aztecs dwelled at a later date, though the land mass was somewhat different then, and some of the lower cave dwellings at times were under water.
Various bands of the Speakers continued through the centuries. Because they were trained so well, the messages retained their authenticity. They believed, however, that it was wrong to set words into written form, and so did not record them. They also used natural earth symbols, but clearly understood the reasons for this. The Speakers, singly, existed in your Stone Age period. Their abilities helped the cavemen survive. There was little physical communication, however, in those days between the various Speakers, and some were unaware of the existence of others.' Seth Speaks sess 568

Being Australian we all touched on Aboriginal Dreamtime stories throughout our early schooling days, and it is heavily symbolic and passed down by word of mouth.

Furthermore...
'The same kinds of dramas in different ways have been given, and while the drama is always different, it is always the same. This does not mean that a Christ has appeared within each system of reality. it means that the idea of God has manifested within each system in a way that is comprehensible to the inhabitants.
The drama continues to exist. It does not belong, for example, to your past. Only you have placed it there. This does not mean that it always reoccurs. The drama, then, was far from meaningless, and the spirit of Christ, in your terms, is legitimate. It is the probable God-drama that you choose to perceive. There were others that were perceived, but not by you, and there are other such dramas existing now.' Seth Speaks sess 560

So maybe historians are not discovering things that happened pre-Roman empire, but are discovering simultaneous dramas that share the same stories and symbology, and dating them to wherever fits our current cultural belief.

Quote from: Joelr (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=10330#msg10330)
I do feel if Seth were legit he would fix our biggest problem in Physics and unify gravity and quantum mechanics.
Why is this a problem? Maybe the only problem is thinking that its a problem? Also I don't think Seth's job was to take those creative expressions away from us.

Anyway, i think Jane's personal demons regarding her Christian upbringing did influence the work, as it influenced her life and death. I think even Seth acknowledges that in The Way Toward Health and elsewhere, particularly when she became ill.

I'm not hung up on historical anomalies. If the past can be changed then there is nowhere to really get hung on anyway.

Len
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: transient amnesia on November 27, 2017, 12:01:01 PM
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Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: transient amnesia on November 27, 2017, 12:50:56 PM
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Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Sena on November 28, 2017, 06:16:33 AM
Quote from: LenKop (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=10332#msg10332)
Anyway, i think Jane's personal demons regarding her Christian upbringing did influence the work, as it influenced her life and death.
Christian dogma as taught by the churches makes you sick. That's what Nietzsche said. In Jane's case there is also the likelihood that she was sexually abused by a Catholic priest, and such abuse often shows up later as physical illness.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Sena on November 28, 2017, 06:26:29 AM
Quote from: transient amnesia (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=10334#msg10334)
could it be possible that Seth as "Pope" didn't have the Understanding in his 3D psychical mind, before his was murdered? and what memory would he be pulling that information from? His own social memory complex?  just asking. 
As Seth had been a "minor" Pope, he would have had to subsequently unlearn a lot of rubbish that had been drilled into him, and perhaps that process is not yet complete.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: transient amnesia on November 28, 2017, 12:02:10 PM
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Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Deb on November 28, 2017, 05:57:15 PM
I'm just about Seth-saturated at this point. I opened some sort of Seth flood gate recently. I don't know if anyone else here looks at forum stats, but this topic has had 20,444 views and 216 replies. Soon to be 217.

Anyway, please take a look at these:

Seth on the Christ: https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?topic=1277

And more importantly a new board, Unpublished Sessions: https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?board=52.0

More information on what Seth had to say about Jesus the Christ and beyond. @Joelr there may be some answsers for you.


Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Joelr on November 28, 2017, 09:15:15 PM
Quote from: LenKop (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=10332#msg10332)
Welcome Joelr,

It's difficult to argue with linear time. Particularly when we are absorbed by it. Some of the statements seem to be cemented in history so therefore must be correct, and if Seth mentions anything that doesn't follow what has been discovered then he is wrong.
Perhaps historical data has not caught up with him yet? Ever wondered why so many 'Lost Gospels' and 'Lost Scriptures' and 'Lost this and that' have been discovered? Maybe they haven't been 'discovered' but created by us in the present moment to fit the needs and beliefs we share en masse at the moment. Seth always mentions that there are no closed systems of consciousness, that includes our future and our past. Besides, historians are constantly changing their views on the past, ironically, without even noticing that they just might be actually changing the past.

Some good answers to think about.

What you say above I get, applying Seth type philosophy to the issue and invoking an ever-changing past. While it could be a type of solution, my main thing with that is sometimes Seth does give specific historical data. So if his history becomes out dated one can just say "the past must have changed". But why give specific events from the past if it's so slippery?

Quote from: LenKop (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=10332#msg10332)
'The story of the Creation, as Biblically stated, is the symbolic representation of a master event - a legend that became its own event, of course, forming about it whole arts and cultures, religions and disciplines. The same applies to Christianity itself, for all of the seemingly historical events connected with the official Christ did not happen in physical reality. They happened at another level of actuality, and were inserted into your time framework - touching a character here, a definitely known historical event there, until the two lines of activity were so entwined that you could not unravel one without unraveling the other.' D,E & VF sess 928

There's an entire chapter on Myths in Mass Events, here's a bit...

'Myth is not a distortion of fact, but the womb through which fact must come. Myth involves an intrinsic understanding of the nature of reality, couched in imaginative terms, carrying a power as strong as nature itself. Myth-making is a natural psychic characteristic, a psychic element that combines with other such elements to form a mythical representation of inner reality. That representation is then used as model upon which your civilizations are organized, and also as a perceptive tool through whose lens you interpret the private events of your own life in their historical context.' Mass Events sess 817

Right but then did Mormonism, Thor, Hercules, Roswell, and every other supernatural mythological character also "happened at another level of actuality, and were inserted into your time framework "?

What about every work of fiction ever created?
Back then people just assumed there had to be some type of god and whatever story was in vogue and gained momentum worked. This sort of psychic well that according to Seth the Christ drama sprung from seems a bit much.
Seems more like Jane thinking religion has a deeper reality than it actually does. I'm not trying to debunk everything Seth says on religion though. I might just be typing here for the sake of making a counter point?

Now if Seth said the Christ drama was a psychic event that was spreading through biblical times from culture to culture and named some examples like Romulus and Osirus that might have been something.

But the Seth quote above is interesting, it makes sense about it not happening in physical reality. If that was all he said it would seem reasonable.





Quote from: LenKop (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=10332#msg10332)
Why do say complete lack of knowledge? I haven't mentioned one thing in regard to music, does that mean I have a complete lack of knowledge about music? Perhaps Seth knew his market better than we give him credit for. What's the point about harping on about Zoroastrianism when the majority of readers will have no interest in it? Telling the world that Christ was this and Christ was that will surely prick up more ears in the western world during the 20th century. Having said that, he does mention the Speakers..

Well if you were channeling an entity who was describing the history of music in Europe and didn't mention Bach it would be sketchy. Especially if it were post-Bach but before he was well known for his contributions (Bach wasn't famous at all, a later composer became his champion then people caught on).

Like you said he does mention the Speakers as if they are concrete history. It's examples like that that make me feel he might have been more specific with Christianity. I mean he called one gospel a "forgery"? They ALL start with "as told to me by...." That's also very specific.
Wouldn't it be weird if Seth called one of the Hercules gospels a forgery?



Quote from: LenKop (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=10332#msg10332)
Furthermore...
'The same kinds of dramas in different ways have been given, and while the drama is always different, it is always the same. This does not mean that a Christ has appeared within each system of reality. it means that the idea of God has manifested within each system in a way that is comprehensible to the inhabitants.
The drama continues to exist. It does not belong, for example, to your past. Only you have placed it there. This does not mean that it always reoccurs. The drama, then, was far from meaningless, and the spirit of Christ, in your terms, is legitimate. It is the probable God-drama that you choose to perceive. There were others that were perceived, but not by you, and there are other such dramas existing now.' Seth Speaks sess 560

So maybe historians are not discovering things that happened pre-Roman empire, but are discovering simultaneous dramas that share the same stories and symbology, and dating them to wherever fits our current cultural belief.


They are good quotes, I'm not sure what to say about that. The Christ story as it were is so far removed from any idea of "god" that Seth ever presented that I'm actually surprised Seth wasn't just like " it was just a bunch of fiction people believed, end of story..."
The redeemer demigod is there to get you out of the big trouble you're constantly in with the mean sky-father god whom is pissed because he hates sin.
The sky god has accepted the torture and death of the demigod as a stand in for the punishment you all should receive for "sins".
In Judaism it replaced the temple (which had just fallen anyways) where you would go daily to try and achieve sin forgiveness.
It's like if Seth came 1000 years from now and was saying all that stuff but about Roswell or Mormons?

Maybe Jane had personal ideas that she couldn't get past?


Quote from: LenKop (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=10332#msg10332)

Why is this a problem? Maybe the only problem is thinking that its a problem? Also I don't think Seth's job was to take those creative expressions away from us.

For me the more I learn the more I have to examine my beliefs. If something no longer serves me I have to let it go. Sometimes it's painful but it's better for me in the long run. It's just a personal thing.

So if I examine my beliefs in Seth and something points towards it not being actual channeled information I'm just labeling that as a "problem". It's not really a problem but more a belief.
Without expanding on that  - right now I'm just throwing around some thoughts and taking in others opinions. I doubt I'd ever write Seth off as a complete fake.
The rest of the New Age field, probably, but Seth is unique. I also tried to find out what Jane might have been sourcing for material to see if she was drawing concepts from somewhere else. There is some Jung, Quimby (New-Thought guy from the 20's) and people like that who have similarities but nothing close to the level Seth is on at all.

So Seth did attempt to describe a level of quantum physics that we are yet unfamiliar with. He definitely seemed to be trying to pass along more physics knowledge, as detailed as he could say. When I say he should have attempted to unify quantum mechanics with gravity (or something similar) i think of it like this - if Seth was speaking to someone in the 1800's and wanted to give them something simple just to show without a doubt he was whom he says he could have simply said any of the following:

light comes in particles AND waves
all subatomic entities are particles and waves
mass and energy are equivalent
gravity is curvature of spacetime
space and time are connected
when you move time slows down
the universe is expanding
most of the mass in the universe is invisible
all mass contains a huge amount of energy
there is no absolute timeframe/time is relative
when accelerating time is not relative
the universal expansion is speeding up
or whatever.....

Seth did talk about the future and I know there are probable futures but there are things that will remain the same throughout our "camoflague reality". I feel like he could have put forth some future physics in just one sentence. Because he was trying really hard to describe the next level down of physics and he even mentioned wave/particle duality but he came up with a very un-impressive talk on "EE particles" that didn't explain anything but added another layer of particles?
Just give me one sentance!

He did have some very impressive things to say that have ended up showing up in modern physics since. Nothing definitive like I was talking about but some ideas have become known science. One for example is the idea of changing the past which we can do at least to individual particles in the quantum eraser experiment.



Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Joelr on November 28, 2017, 09:39:28 PM
Quote from: transient amnesia (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=10334#msg10334)
Good'morn'n Joel and everyone  :)

 Is Seth wrong? I don't think so, it's that I don't understand something yet. 

could it be possible that Seth as "Pope" didn't have the Understanding in his 3D psychical mind, before his was murdered? and what memory would he be pulling that information from? His own social memory complex?  just asking. 

I am familiar with Santos Bonacci's work and I like it for the most part because it is more to my 'Understanding'.
I Love the sky and stars like a Sailor! but that's in my social memory. I myself, would have to agree that History is a lie agreed upon. 

Here are a few paragraphs from 'The Devil's Pulpit" by Rev Robert Taylor Pg. 204 Starting at "It never being to be forgotten,"

https://archive.org/stream/devilspulpit00tayl#page/204/mode/2up[/url


 (https://archive.org/stream/devilspulpit00tayl#page/204/mode/2up)

It's highly possible that when it comes to Seth it could just be a lack of understanding because he is complex.

But religious people will say that sometimes as well "God is mysterious, not for us to understand..." when they encounter something they might not agree with or rings as a false concept.
Seth wanted to be understood and he tried to speak plainly.

I'm just saying it could be mis-understaning but I'm also giving the situation freedom to be something else, like Jane was wrong. On some level, - mis-translation, her subconscious influenced the text, her husband Robert Butts influenced the work...?



The internet is by far making people much much more informed. There may be fake news and bad science going around but overall people are taking in more information and it's a positive development in the long run.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Joelr on November 28, 2017, 11:39:31 PM
Quote from: Deb (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=10350#msg10350)
I'm just about Seth-saturated at this point. I opened some sort of Seth flood gate recently. I don't know if anyone else here looks at forum stats, but this topic has had 20,444 views and 216 replies. Soon to be 217.

Anyway, please take a look at these:

Seth on the Christ: https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?topic=1277

And more importantly a new board, Unpublished Sessions: https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?board=52.0

More information on what Seth had to say about Jesus the Christ and beyond. @Joelr there may be some answsers for you.




Thank you.

Seth speaks of mostly general stuff, and mentions a few times that Christ is the story of 3 different men who lived at that time. This raises more questions for me. The gospel stories are very thick with mythological cliches and literary devices and parables that seriously suggest it's not about the lives of any actual persons.
40 days in the desert, Carpenter Earth-god, sermon on the mount, 12 apostles, miracles, it's all mythologies passed on through cultural diffusion. 

Did one of these 3 men "wither" a fig tree? Did one of them curse the fig tree for not bearing figs out of season? No. The story is an allegory for God's abandonment of the temple. Jesus is God and the fig tree is the temple. Jesus curses the fig tree and says "now you pray to me". The temple is no longer needed with Jesus here.

This is a story within a story, Mark was not writing history at all, these are allegorical parables. The entire gospels are written this way.
Jesus is actually the new Moses and Elija and the gospels tell stories that teach followers how to live as a missionary - argue with doubters, family, miracles, they explain rituals and invent a pedigree so no one else can claim revelations.
They co-opt the baptist cult by having John baptize Jesus and so on. Every story is there for a reason, some are impossible to flush out without help from scholarship but they are not historical tales.
They are pieced together from other stories and since it's Judaism they went ahead and used an already known angel named Jesus.

I'm sure that in the 1960s the idea that Jesus was actually complete mythology, that he wasn't even a real man, would have never occurred to Jane. She did say "I know this idea will upset Christians" about some of the things she was coming out with but the mythicist ideas were too controversial to be spoke of anywhere back then.

Not everyone in scholarship accepts the mythicist theory yet however, so I can't say this is the standard belief in the field right now.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Deb on November 29, 2017, 02:53:40 PM
Quote from: Joelr (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=10358#msg10358)
Seth speaks of mostly general stuff,

Yes, Seth was not extremely specific, but then Jane was admittedly uncomfortable with him talking about religion and she could control how much information came through on certain topics. She even would hold back personal information that she was afraid would upset Rob. Again, I wonder how much of Jane's religious upbringing affected the messages around that topic.

A lot of the time Seth was responding to questions asked of him by Rob and Jane, class members, people that came to him for consultations, so there are more details on some topics, less on other. Seth did want to write an entire book on Jesus/Christ. Jane resisted that. I wonder how many more books, how much more information, would have come out if Jane lived another 20 years.

Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Joelr on November 29, 2017, 09:35:06 PM
Quote from: Deb (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=10374#msg10374)
Quote from: Joelr (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=10358#msg10358)
Seth speaks of mostly general stuff,

Yes, Seth was not extremely specific, but then Jane was admittedly uncomfortable with him talking about religion and she could control how much information came through on certain topics. She even would hold back personal information that she was afraid would upset Rob. Again, I wonder how much of Jane's religious upbringing affected the messages around that topic.

A lot of the time Seth was responding to questions asked of him by Rob and Jane, class members, people that came to him for consultations, so there are more details on some topics, less on other. Seth did want to write an entire book on Jesus/Christ. Jane resisted that. I wonder how many more books, how much more information, would have come out if Jane lived another 20 years.



I would guess that not much more significant work would have come from Jane/Seth because that last (or late) book "The Magical Approach" or whatever, was markedly different. And by different I mean not at all as good. Didn't seem like a Seth book.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Deb on November 30, 2017, 06:25:41 PM
Do you suppose that was because she was dying and very much done with it all? If she had not lost steam, there may have been many good things to come.

I read half of the first volume of The Personal Sessions the other day, it seems like there were more than a few nights where Rob pushed Jane to have sessions even though she was tired or not in the mood. Maybe she burned out.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: myststars on December 03, 2017, 11:29:15 PM
If i would have my gf/wife channel vocally i may have done the same with the mind a couple years ago.There is a saying in my country: "if i gives you a finger you take all my hand." The lack and the desperation may make the one that is not channeling to push the other too much.To transcend the lack mentality is a very challenging task imo for humanity.One must first go through life as a human and get some extreme circumstances that derail so much that you go to spirituality and then you have to trust completely differently how things manifest in ones life.I invested a BIG amount of time in spirituality.Fortunetly the new kids come more or less much more open out of the box so the job will be much easier for them than it is for the 50 year old or even 40 year old.Also they will see that the society globally colapses and the old structures where the 60 years feels confortable are challenged and collapsing.The buying into the the current humanity structure may not be so entrenched like it was in the past.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: transient amnesia on December 04, 2017, 05:17:41 AM
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Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Deb on December 04, 2017, 07:29:42 AM
Quote from: myststars (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=10421#msg10421)
The lack and the desperation may make the one that is not channeling to push the other too much.

The similar expression in the US is to give someone an inch and they take a mile. :) Reading about how Rob pushed Jane to do personal sessions made me feel a little sad for her. The information that was so important to Rob had to do with a certain body appendage that had developed a slight bend (they don't call them the Personal Sessions for no reason!). Nothing life threatening, nothing spiritual, but important enough to Rob (male priorities, enough said) to push Jane for information from Seth over the course of several sessions. There were a few times she ended up lying down on the sofa while speaking as Seth because she was so worn out. Not a very empathetic Rob.

But... I feel the personal sessions are very important even though the information was very personal and specific to Jane and Rob. Seth goes into deep detail regarding the beliefs and thought processes that caused whatever manifestations they were dealing with at the time, very clear examples of the how seemingly unrelated beliefs can manifest as physical problems. Such as for Rob, his manifestation had to do with his beliefs about a variety of things (http://search.sethtalks.com/q/session:208+book:tps1+penis/). Good information for the rest of us doing belief work to see how different beliefs work together even though they don't seem directly related to each other or the manifested problem. Delving into our beliefs can't be a linear process.

Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: usmaak on February 02, 2018, 08:10:32 PM
I just finished reading the religion chapter of Seth Speaks again.  I have to say, every time I read that stuff about the Christ personality, the return of Christ, etc..., I just roll my eyes.  It's like I can't even help myself.  All of my disdain for religion aside (and believe me, there's a lot), it all just seems so pat.  The author of the Seth Material lived in the US.  The primary religion is the US is Christianity.  Of all the religions in the world, of which there are so many, it just happens to be return of a Christ personality.  I mean WHAT A COINCIDENCE!!

I almost skipped the religion chapter this time through, but I try to never skip because I never know if I might get something out of it.

As far as the bible and Christianity in general, how are we to know that any of it actually even happened.  2000 years from now, is someone going to pick up a work of fiction like The Stand (my favorite book) and consider it to be a factual account of life 2000 years ago?

Religion... Sigh...
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: voidypaul on February 02, 2018, 09:28:00 PM
You have the same attitude to Christ and religion that most people do Usmaak and it's not surprising in this day and age of scientific materialism and screwed up pseudo religion but it is a mistake to believe that religion is Just what the old religion and science says it is .
Religion is mans connection to ATI in which we all can share.
Christ or Jesus was more advanced than Seth is now and he freely admits it . So it will be more like having a more advanced Seth in the flesh amongst us and as far as I am concerned I really look forward to hopefully meeting with this personality who will be working on an entity level and who will show us the inherent divinity within each of us.
Peace , Paul
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Joelr on February 03, 2018, 12:22:09 AM
Quote from: usmaak (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=10731#msg10731)
I just finished reading the religion chapter of Seth Speaks again.  I have to say, every time I read that stuff about the Christ personality, the return of Christ, etc..., I just roll my eyes.  It's like I can't even help myself.  All of my disdain for religion aside (and believe me, there's a lot), it all just seems so pat.  The author of the Seth Material lived in the US.  The primary religion is the US is Christianity.  Of all the religions in the world, of which there are so many, it just happens to be return of a Christ personality.  I mean WHAT A COINCIDENCE!!

I almost skipped the religion chapter this time through, but I try to never skip because I never know if I might get something out of it.

As far as the bible and Christianity in general, how are we to know that any of it actually even happened.  2000 years from now, is someone going to pick up a work of fiction like The Stand (my favorite book) and consider it to be a factual account of life 2000 years ago?

Religion... Sigh...

That's a good point. I already thought the Jesus stuff that Seth gives is very sketchy but with that in mind it's just absolute rubbish.
I've been studying the historical aspects of early Christianity and there were a whole bunch of dying and rising "forgive your personal sins" redeemer demi-gods before Jesus - Romulus, Inanna, Zalmoxus etc...
For more on that see PHd Richard Carriers lectures and debates on youtube, I'm not the expert.


It was just a copy-cat Jewish version of the popular religion moving through that area. Seth also said one gospel was "fake" but they ALL start with the Greek kata memori "as told to be by", scholarship also believes they were all copied from Mark and that Paul was originally referring to a celestial Jesus, an angel who was already in Jewish lore.
Again, Richard Carrier is the expert, but Jane didn't have access to this history (or didnt' do research) and I just can't believe any of that Seth stuff on religion is even remotely close to anything legit.

It's hard to explain in one post. You would have to read Elaine Pagels The Gnostic Gospels and listen to some Carrier lectures.
What happened historically was not what Seth speaks of. Pagels shows that the Gnostics were at least half of early Christianity and some of the Gnostic scriptures talks about Jesus teaching more spiritual ideas, more like Buddhist or Hindu stuff.
It's actually more Seth-like stuff then traditional gospels. So if that's the case why the hell wouldn't Seth talk about that???

If you read that book along with what the historicity field is saying, Carrier and Robert Price, the Seth material on religion sounds so made up. Just totally bogus. It's a bummer to me but what can I say?

It's actually ruined the whole Seth thing for me it's so bad? It's disappointing but I have to be open minded and if that material is false how do I know about any other Seth stuff?
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Sena on February 03, 2018, 08:03:33 AM
Quote from: usmaak (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=10731#msg10731)
The author of the Seth Material lived in the US.  The primary religion is the US is Christianity.  Of all the religions in the world, of which there are so many, it just happens to be return of a Christ personality.  I mean WHAT A COINCIDENCE!!
usmaak, I take the Seth statements on Christ with a large pinch of salt. Although Seth said that he had been a minor Pope in a previous existence, I don't think he is infallible.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Sena on February 03, 2018, 08:08:06 AM
Quote from: Joelr (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=10737#msg10737)
I've been studying the historical aspects of early Christianity and there were a whole bunch of dying and rising "forgive your personal sins" redeemer demi-gods before Jesus - Romulus, Inanna, Zalmoxus etc...
Joel, I wouldn't say that the Seth statements on Christ are absolute rubbish. There may be a valid symbolic meaning. If Christ was the Son of God, then every human being is equally the Son of God.

Seth says something like this:
"In this model, changes of form are the result of creative syntheses. This model is seen to have its origin (long pause, eyes closed) within a vast, infinite, divine subjectivity—a subjectivity that is within each unit of consciousness, whatever its degree. A subjective divinity, then, that is within creation itself, a multidimensional creativity of such proportions that it is itself the creator and its creations at the same time."
—Dreams Evolution and Value Fulfillment, Volume 1 Chapter 4: Session 897, January 21, 1980

"[All That Is] did not separate itself from those worlds, however, for they were created from its thoughts, and each one has divine content. The worlds are all created by that divine content, so that while they are on the one hand exterior, they are on the other also made of divine stuff, and each hypothetical point in your universe (pause) is in direct contact with All That Is in the most basic terms. The knowledge of the whole is within all of its parts—and yet All That Is is more than its parts."
—DEaVF1 Chapter 1: Session 883, October 1, 1979

"The infinite ranges possible to human capabilities would be explored — and those who chose that route said, quote: “We will trust that our creativity will find its own way, and if there are nightmares we will waken from them. We will even learn from them. We will dare to push aside the dimensions of being into those realms in which only the gods have gone before — and through our utter vulnerability to experience, discover the divinity that gives our humanity its meaning. And (whispering) through the compassion that we have learned, will we be able to understand the divine errors that gave us the gift of our birth. Souls and molecules each are learning, each are forming realities, each are a part of a divinity in which each counterpart has a part to play.”"
—The Unknown Reality Volume 2 Section 6: Session 733 January 27, 1975

Seth's reference to "divine errors" is quite interesting. The Christian God would be regarded as free from error.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Deb on February 03, 2018, 08:56:43 AM
Quote from: Joelr (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=10737#msg10737)
It's actually ruined the whole Seth thing for me it's so bad? It's disappointing but I have to be open minded and if that material is false how do I know about any other Seth stuff?

While the majority of the Seth materials makes complete, deep down sense to me, this one topic of Jesus/Christ Personality/Religion has bothered me because I feel there is some contradictory information. There are times when it seems Seth says Jesus was a real flesh and blood human that walked the earth and other times where he's indicated that Jesus was only a symbol, a metaphor, not a real human. I've resolved that to a degree in my mind by realizing that while Jesus the man could certainly have existed, the myth of who and what he was was manufactured by Christianity over the centuries and injected with a lot of mythology from other cultures. There's no question of that in my mind. And the fact that I have little to no interest in religion, I've laid my concerns to rest.

I feel there is a focus on Christianity in the books because at lot of what Seth talked about was prompted by questions from Jane, Rob and others. It was of their interest, I really don't feel religion was all that important to Seth. Jane was brought up as a Christian, it began for her at an early age and was drummed into her head. She could never overcome it. Also, both Jane and Seth admitted that Jane could control what information came through her: if it was information that would upset her core beliefs, she could prevent it from coming through. My guess is she could also cloud the information that did get through, depending on how she felt at the time. My feeling is that this is the one topic that had the most opportunity for distortion, because of her deep seated beliefs about Christianity. She appeared to be more objective around other, less emotional topics. And while yes, there could be some distortions in all of the materials, Seth did say that with Jane there would be less distortion than with anyone else.

Here's the pinch of salt (or salt lick, if you prefer):

"Do not place the words of gurus, ministers, priests, scientists, psychologists, friends — or my words — higher than the feelings of your own being. You can learn much from others, but the deepest knowledge must come from within yourself. Your own consciousness is embarked upon a reality that basically can be experienced by no other, that is unique and untranslatable, with its own meaning, following its own paths of becoming."
—NoPR Chapter 22: Session 677, July 11, 1973

Quote from: Sena (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=10739#msg10739)
Although Seth said that he had been a minor Pope in a previous existence, I don't think he is infallible.

From what I remember about Seth being a pope, he was a bit of a monster in the morality category.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: usmaak on February 03, 2018, 11:01:30 AM
Quote from: Joelr (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=10737#msg10737)
It's actually ruined the whole Seth thing for me it's so bad? It's disappointing but I have to be open minded and if that material is false how do I know about any other Seth stuff?
This is actually something that I've gone back and forth about over the years.  When someone lies to me, it puts the veracity of everything else they've ever said to me into question.  I'm not comparing this information to an outright lie, just saying that if it's false or highly distorted, it makes me wonder what else is false and distorted alongside it.  There have been times where I've firmly believed and there've been times when I think that Jane Roberts must have been schizophrenic with her husband playing the part of complete enabler.

Some of the Seth subjects that just don't "feel right" to me:

- Many of the subjects about the "after life", like how there are classes to help and stuff like that.  Maybe I'm just applying my current reality filters to it, but it made it seem like going to school and long meetings.  It seems too structured, and that structure seems a lot like how many live their lives today.  I have had enough school and meetings up to now in my life.  I'd hate to think that what comes next is just another thing to throw on my phone, to make sure that I don't forget to show up on time. 
- Speakers.
- Sumari.
- Seth II
- Atlantis
- Astral Projection

That said, there are a lot more things that ring true with my feelings than those that don't.  But there is no way that I've found to prove that any of it is true.  Like religion, for me, it comes down to faith.  Sometimes I have a lot of faith, and sometimes I find myself lacking.  I guess everyone finds out for sure, once they move on from this reality.  I have always admired the persistence and belief in those that are true believers in anything.  It must be a relief to believe in something so much that it gives you peace.

I have to say that I sure am glad that I found this group.  I only personally know of one other person that's ever read Seth.  She and I do not talk much anymore and based on our conversations, she's likely not into it any longer.  It's nice to be able to talk with people who understand what I'm talking about.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Joelr on February 03, 2018, 06:24:58 PM
Quote from: Sena (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=10740#msg10740)

"The infinite ranges possible to human capabilities would be explored — and those who chose that route said, quote: “We will trust that our creativity will find its own way, and if there are nightmares we will waken from them. We will even learn from them. We will dare to push aside the dimensions of being into those realms in which only the gods have gone before — and through our utter vulnerability to experience, discover the divinity that gives our humanity its meaning. And (whispering) through the compassion that we have learned, will we be able to understand the divine errors that gave us the gift of our birth. Souls and molecules each are learning, each are forming realities, each are a part of a divinity in which each counterpart has a part to play.”"
—The Unknown Reality Volume 2 Section 6: Session 733 January 27, 1975

Seth's reference to "divine errors" is quite interesting. The Christian God would be regarded as free from error.

Yes, when you read the actual Seth words it does make more sense.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Joelr on February 03, 2018, 06:29:46 PM
Quote from: Deb (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=10741#msg10741)
[
Here's the pinch of salt (or salt lick, if you prefer):

"Do not place the words of gurus, ministers, priests, scientists, psychologists, friends — or my words — higher than the feelings of your own being. You can learn much from others, but the deepest knowledge must come from within yourself. Your own consciousness is embarked upon a reality that basically can be experienced by no other, that is unique and untranslatable, with its own meaning, following its own paths of becoming."
—NoPR Chapter 22: Session 677, July 11, 1973

Quote from: Sena (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=10739#msg10739)
Although Seth said that he had been a minor Pope in a previous existence, I don't think he is infallible.

From what I remember about Seth being a pope, he was a bit of a monster in the morality category.


Yes I get that it could be a mis-translation because Jane was Christian.
I forgot Seth said he was a pope, that's just tough to swallow.

The Seth text is brilliant. I've never read any Jane authored books, does her writing style stack up in any way? In other words could Jane be making Seth up or is the quality of her personal work too far below Seth?
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Joelr on February 03, 2018, 06:50:34 PM
Quote from: usmaak (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=10742#msg10742)

This is actually something that I've gone back and forth about over the years.  When someone lies to me, it puts the veracity of everything else they've ever said to me into question.  I'm not comparing this information to an outright lie, just saying that if it's false or highly distorted, it makes me wonder what else is false and distorted alongside it.  There have been times where I've firmly believed and there've been times when I think that Jane Roberts must have been schizophrenic with her husband playing the part of complete enabler.

Some of the Seth subjects that just don't "feel right" to me:

- Many of the subjects about the "after life", like how there are classes to help and stuff like that.  Maybe I'm just applying my current reality filters to it, but it made it seem like going to school and long meetings.  It seems too structured, and that structure seems a lot like how many live their lives today.  I have had enough school and meetings up to now in my life.  I'd hate to think that what comes next is just another thing to throw on my phone, to make sure that I don't forget to show up on time. 
- Speakers.
- Sumari.
- Seth II
- Atlantis
- Astral Projection

That said, there are a lot more things that ring true with my feelings than those that don't.  But there is no way that I've found to prove that any of it is true.  Like religion, for me, it comes down to faith.  Sometimes I have a lot of faith, and sometimes I find myself lacking.  I guess everyone finds out for sure, once they move on from this reality.  I have always admired the persistence and belief in those that are true believers in anything.  It must be a relief to believe in something so much that it gives you peace.

I have to say that I sure am glad that I found this group.  I only personally know of one other person that's ever read Seth.  She and I do not talk much anymore and based on our conversations, she's likely not into it any longer.  It's nice to be able to talk with people who understand what I'm talking about.

I studies the Nature of Personal Reality like a textbook. I had about 20 paperclips inserted on key exercises to re-read.
I practiced all the suggestions along with visualization and meditation.
Did it work? Well, what I was visualizing on for a year or so manifested in a very deliberate and surprising way, in what would be a large coincidence. But I also know very well about confirmation bias so how can I say for sure?

At the time I was convinced but the The Secret came out and suddenly everyone was "manifesting" this and that and going to win the lottery and cure illness and all those "guru" people in the movie became rich and famous and wrote books - Vitale, uh, the guy who had a member die in Arizona during hot meditation, and so on. There were a whole bunch of manifesting experts and they all knew exactly how reality worked and it was just a mess.
Everyone was writing books and copying the same material. Even Deepak Chopra was like "uh, slow down people, it's not that simple..."
And don't get me started on Ester and Jerry Hicks......oh my god..

A lot of people were hurt trying to cure illness without medicine, or disappointed when they didnt' win the lottery or create this or that. It was a huge mess and the whole thing turned me off to metaphysics in a serious way.

A lot of these people posted on a forum called Personal Development For Smart People and the buzzword "personal development" was a big thing.
There were so many mis-lead people on that site who were "experts" on creating your reality and were going to win the lottery, channel Jesus, etc.....

I had to explore the skeptic side of things and I found a lot of stuff that was disappointing. It turns out every psychic who was tested in any way or any ESP abilities ever have done exactly the same as random guessing.
Also there is a guy in the UK, Derren Brown who as part of his videos he debunks psychics. He even went to a psychic school in Arizona and got his degree and completely fooled all the teachers that he was the best psychic ever. But he secretly admits to the viewers that he's using tricks, psychology, NLP, and illusion.

I thought at least one person would be able to demonstrate some type of ESP one time, ever? There is another guy who offers a million dollars to anyone who can show psychic abilities, James Randi.

The Seth stuff is awesome. I just don't know why psychic abilities can't ever be shown to be real, even a little?
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Deb on February 04, 2018, 09:33:17 AM
Quote from: Joelr (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=10745#msg10745)
Well, what I was visualizing on for a year or so manifested in a very deliberate and surprising way, in what would be a large coincidence. But I also know very well about confirmation bias so how can I say for sure?

Yep, I get it. How can we say for sure whether something is proof or coincidence or us looking for confirmation of something we want to believe? On the other hand, we will dismiss things staring us in the face using the same bias. Eventually some of us get off the fence and pick a side, so to say.

"Why then do you insist that an inner experience such as telepathy or premonition does not exist because you cannot hold it in both hands?"
—TES1 Session 26 February 18, 1964

You gave me an idea to start a new board, 'Proof ofTelepathy?'. We all have experiences, coincidences, big and small that we can't explain. They appear to be telepathy--if we accept them as such and not reject them as coincidence. Sometimes the nature of the incident is too unique to write off as coincidence. More here (click on my name):

Quote from: Deb (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=10746#msg10746)
I'm the type that will take anything anyone else says with a grain of salt, preferring to examine my own personal experiences and then decide whether what's happened could be proof or simply coincidence.

Quote from: Joelr (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=10744#msg10744)
I've never read any Jane authored books, does her writing style stack up in any way? In other words could Jane be making Seth up or is the quality of her personal work too far below Seth?

All you need to do is read some of the book intros to pick up on Jane's voice. Or listen to YouTubes to compare her speech and personality compared to when she was speaking for Seth. But... as Seth was using Jane's stored vocabulary to communicate... Jane had her own style of writing, a little more informal and conversational, but still very intelligent and professional.

I can't tell you to believe whether it was real or not. I tend to be a skeptic, and in the beginning had a very hard time believing in channeling, even while the Seth materials made more sense to me than anything I've ever come across before. But there have been times when I have had access to information, a Knowing, solutions that came from -- I don't know where, certainly not my brain or memory. So with that in mind, I can accept that there is more "out there" than meets the eye. At some point I decided that Jane was pulling knowledge from someplace outside of herself. Easier to accept because I've done it myself (in small ways).

Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: usmaak on February 04, 2018, 10:26:25 AM
Quote from: Joelr (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=10745#msg10745)
Everyone was writing books and copying the same material. Even Deepak Chopra was like "uh, slow down people, it's not that simple..."
And don't get me started on Ester and Jerry Hicks......oh my god..

A lot of people were hurt trying to cure illness without medicine, or disappointed when they didnt' win the lottery or create this or that. It was a huge mess and the whole thing turned me off to metaphysics in a serious way.

A lot of these people posted on a forum called Personal Development For Smart People and the buzzword "personal development" was a big thing.
There were so many mis-lead people on that site who were "experts" on creating your reality and were going to win the lottery, channel Jesus, etc.....
Similar experience here.  I've been reading Seth since the 80s and I was VERY excited when I saw this stuff go mainstream.  I imagined the world finally awakening to more of what's possible.  I'd long since soured on religion and did not like the direction that it takes the world.  So I went out and bought a whole bunch of books.  I bought books from Abraham-Hicks and Wayne Dyer.  I bought The Secret.   I bought all of the Conversations with God books.  I bought so many others that I can't even remember. With the exception of a couple, all of them have long since ended up being sold to various book resellers for a LOT less than I paid for them.  Most of them didn't even get read because I quickly saw that they offered nothing new and were purposefully (IMO) misleadingly, to make money for the authors.  They played on people's difficulties, making it seem like all people needed to do to have what they wanted was to act like they already had it.  If you think about it, it was a genius plan.  Sure, there'd be some people who never got what they wanted, but those that did would be shouting from the rafters about how they were miserable before The Secret and living the life of dreams after.  Those would be the stories that people would pay attention to.  I watched The Secret video and then saw all of the people they featured on it putting out their own books.  The Secret made a lot of millionaires, but unfortunately it was only those that wrote books on it that saw that windfall.

It turns out that "going mainstream", at least in this case, was just a big money grab for some authors.  This is one of the reasons why the whole return of the Christ personality irks me.  To me, it presupposes a certain level of mainstream awareness and, dare I say, maturity, and people just don't seem to be there.  They are still thumping the bible and telling everyone that they're going to hell if they don't believe a certain way.  Here we are in 2018, and mainstream religion still holds major sway in how everything works.  If a new Christ figure were to be born, I wouldn't be surprised to see said Christ figure assassinated as a heretic.  That's just where humanity seems to be at this time, and it doesn't seem like we're moving forward.  Seth said this would all happen by 2075, and we are a heck of a lot closer to 2075 now, than we were in 1971, when the religion chapter showed up in Seth Speaks.

My wife was just reading me a story about this teacher who introduced meditation to his classroom, in an attempt to teach mindfulness to his students.  He was shut down because some good, god fearing Christians figured that meditation was a path to hell.  It'd probably be the same thing if one of the gym teachers tried to teach some yoga.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: chasman on February 04, 2018, 04:31:14 PM
enjoying immensely all of this.
thank you to all who posted.
everyone.
it gets a rise out of me, whenever I think of the term "god fearing".
I much prefer a God thats a cool woman or guy.
not someone to be feared. someone who loves us, and wants us to not be afraid.


Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: usmaak on February 04, 2018, 05:18:49 PM
Quote from: chasman (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=10756#msg10756)
enjoying immensely all of this.
thank you to all who posted.
everyone.
it gets a rise out of me, whenever I think of the term "god fearing".
I much prefer a God thats a cool woman or guy.
not someone to be feared. someone who loves us, and wants us to not be afraid.
You can't keep the masses in line if they don't fear the deity.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: chasman on February 04, 2018, 07:14:05 PM
fascinating concept.
so put that together with that religion is the opiate of the people.
whatever. brutal. tough room. tough planet.
people so happy to fight and make war. over and over.
and fighting in the name of God. our God's better than your God. he's the real God. not the fake God, idol, fake news God........yada yada yada......
we're a Christian nation, right ? the U S is, isn't it?
but we will honor you and tell you what a good person, a good soldier you, and we will train you, we will teach you to kill people.
and then tell you, you are so brave, so courageous, such a hero.
but we're a Christian nation right?
oh wait a second. wasn't there some commandment about not killing people?
hmmmm, oh but its ok, its a necessary evil. God will say its ok, because the President and the Generals, and the American people said its ok, you're a hero.
there's no hypocrisy here. is there? or am I one who's seeing clearly, and yes there is hypocrisy here. it is utterly wrong to kill people.
Jesus killed how many people?
oh yeah, none that I know of. historic  or mythical, real, or fake Jesus, I just do not remember him being much of the killing type.
I think that God is someone we should love and admire. the Creator should be a good woman or man.
our friend and ally. our true friend. this is not a God to fear. this is a God that is utterly, totally cool and good, and not scary.
a God that you would want to hang out with. a God who treats you good. all the time. a God who encourages you, and who is caring, loving in toto.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Sena on February 04, 2018, 08:38:59 PM
Quote from: usmaak (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=10753#msg10753)
My wife was just reading me a story about this teacher who introduced meditation to his classroom, in an attempt to teach mindfulness to his students.  He was shut down because some good, god fearing Christians figured that meditation was a path to hell.
According to devout Christians, meditation opens the mind to the Devil. That is why they keep repeating prayers, both mentally and aloud. "An idle mind is the Devil's workshop."
This perhaps brings us to another topic - prayers and mantras. I find it useful, when faced with a stressful or potentially dangerous situation, to mentally say to myself "Living a safe Universe". This is probably a mantra rather than a prayer.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mantra
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Deb on February 05, 2018, 07:06:23 PM
Quote from: chasman (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=10758#msg10758)
so put that together with that religion is the opiate of the people.

Oh Chasman, you don't often post but when you do it's always good.
Yes, Marx was right. I've always seen religion as a crutch. I really don't understand why so many horrendous things have been done in the name of religion. And not just Christianity.

I spent some time yesterday revisiting Seth Speaks, return of the Christ, and the whole religion thing. I have plans for another "Seth On" topic based on what I read.

I'm always amazed by how much more I get from Seth on re-reading passages. It grows as I do.

Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: chasman on February 05, 2018, 07:17:33 PM
thank you Deb.
you are very kind.
your posts are always a joy to read.
and I look forward to your next "Seth on" topic.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: transient amnesia on February 07, 2018, 12:35:14 PM
...
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Joelr on February 09, 2018, 10:00:31 PM
Quote from: Deb (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=10749#msg10749)
[
Yep, I get it. How can we say for sure whether something is proof or coincidence or us looking for confirmation of something we want to believe? On the other hand, we will dismiss things staring us in the face using the same bias. Eventually some of us get off the fence and pick a side, so to say.

"


Putting Seth aside for a minute, psychics are a different story.
My opinions on psychics come largely from Derren Brown who is a illusionist, mentalist and other such things but he admits it's all trickery.



In this one he goes to Sedona the psychic capitol of the US and attends the Sedona Creative Life Center http://www.sedonacreativelife.com/ a pretty serious new-age school. He blows away the staff psychics and they all believe he's an amazing psychic!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wt3Io_faKlk

He debunks a cold reader here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duxQA9TcDcA

One thing I noted in the video where he follows the cold reader around as the reader contacts dead relatives, and they make a big point of this, is besides debunking the entire thing we actually see a reading where the reader has almost all misses but by getting one small hit here or there the impression the person is left with afterwards is that the psychic was amazing and couldn't have possibly known and was always correct.
Their minds somehow disregarded all the misses and just focused on the hit. Confirmation bias.

Again, it's a lot of information to explain, if anyone is interested in seeing full-time professional psychics investigated by someone who knows the tricks then these videos would be interesting.

In another video he chooses 5 psychics in the London area and visits them telling then he is the owner of a restaurant and he gives them all his card and tells them he will return on another day for a reading.
The card has a website for the restaurant and has a "history" page that tells of it's past that included a murder in the 1800's and how a ghost is reported being seen often.

The card, the ghost and the murder are all fake, made up just to see if the psychic uses the information.
All 5 times each psychic reports that they feel a terrible act was commited at the restaurant and the spirit is still wandering around. So they all looked at the website and that's the extent of their psychic powers.

I know it's only 5 people but then watch the episode in Sedona. There are other videos he's done as well including an astrology episode where he learned astrology and did readings for an entire classroom. He handed them each a reading written on paper.
The majority of the people were astonished at how accurate the readings were.
Then he had everyone switch papers and it turned out they all said the same thing.

I feel like there should be some type of confirmation that psychic abilities are real, if they only produce results equal to random guessing then what would be the use of saying they exist?
Like how no one predicted 9/11. That seems like an issue.

You're right about the random number generator type tests, they never show any skew towards esp.

I know some people will say "you can't test psychic abilities with science" but that doesn't work for me.
I feel like if it can't be quantified neither can giving a quantifiable prediction so it's a wash.


Actually Derren Brown isn't just a debunker he does some AMAZING tricks, mind reading, he's better than David Blaine
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Deb on February 10, 2018, 10:01:36 AM
Quote from: Deb (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=10761#msg10761)
I really don't understand why so many horrendous things have been done in the name of religion. And not just Christianity.

I recently found something that comes close to an explanation for me, other than the obvious one that people will defend their belief system (or religion) as being right and everyone else is wrong. I recently read a book by Mark Manson, The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck (very enjoyable, the opposite of the "you are special" of new age teachings, maybe a balance check, mostly saying that when people think they are perfect the way they are they begin to feel entitled and stop trying to grow and improve). Mark talked a little about Ernest Becker and his book Denial of Death (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Denial_of_Death). Among others, Manson mentions Jesus (a symbol of denial of death) being immortalized by the Bible. The Bible does have a recurrent theme of resurrection and immortality, now that I think about it, a great way to get more followers of Christianity by promising immortality to those fearing death.

"The basic premise of The Denial of Death is that human civilization is ultimately an elaborate, symbolic defense mechanism against the knowledge of our mortality, which in turn acts as the emotional and intellectual response to our basic survival mechanism. Becker argues that a basic duality in human life exists between the physical world of objects and a symbolic world of human meaning. Thus, since humanity has a dualistic nature consisting of a physical self and a symbolic self, we are able to transcend the dilemma of mortality through heroism, by focusing our attention mainly on our symbolic selves. This symbolic self-focus takes the form of an individual's "immortality project" (or "causa sui project"), which is essentially a symbolic belief-system that ensures oneself is believed superior to physical reality. By successfully living under the terms of the immortality project, people feel they can become heroic and, henceforth, part of something eternal; something that will never die as compared to their physical body. This, in turn, gives people the feeling that their lives have meaning, a purpose, and are significant in the grand scheme of things.

"Becker argues that the arbitrariness of human-invented immortality projects makes them naturally prone to conflict. When one immortality project conflicts with another, it is essentially an accusation of 'wrongness of life', and so sets the context for both aggressive and defensive behavior. Each party will want to prove its belief system is superior, a better way of life. Thus these immortality projects are considered a fundamental driver of human conflict, such as in wars, bigotry, genocide, and racism."

Quote from: Joelr (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=10800#msg10800)
I know some people will say "you can't test psychic abilities with science" but that doesn't work for me.
I feel like if it can't be quantified neither can giving a quantifiable prediction so it's a wash.

You've Googled "scientific proof of telepathy" ?  There seems to be a lot of articles to look at. From sources like Yale Scientific, Smithsonian Magazine...

Jeez, this topic has veered so far off course I'm not sure there's a way to split off posts to get us back on topic... I'll have to think about that.  :)
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Joelr on February 15, 2018, 02:05:52 AM
Quote from: Deb (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=10801#msg10801)


You've Googled "scientific proof of telepathy" ?  There seems to be a lot of articles to look at. From sources like Yale Scientific, Smithsonian Magazine...

Jeez, this topic has veered so far off course I'm not sure there's a way to split off posts to get us back on topic... I'll have to think about that.  :)

Yes I just read all those articles. In 2 cases it's not ESP in the sense we think of it, it involves technology reading brainwaves and then sending information to someone else through a headset. It's not 6th sense psychic powers type stuff.

In one article it just gave a summary of experiments a man has been working on for many years but the findings are interperative and not conclusive.

Then the child who has "telepathy" can only do it with his mother, it's very sketchy.

Then articles by Dean Radin who I'm not sure I trust, he makes his living selling new-age stuff.

This is what I mean, whenever you take time to see what's up with ESP studies the findings and results are either disappointing or sketchy.

James Randi has offered 1 million dollars to anyone who can demonstrate ESP at his institute.
If you google the James Randi challenge there is a video of someone actually passing the test and proving ESP but it's a video posted on April 1 and is a joke (just so you don't watch the whole thing for nothing).

I hear people say that psychic abilities cannot be tested in a lab or be tested by a scientific method and that's why there are no definitive results but that really doesn't make sense.
If you can't get definitive results with testing then you can't get results with any method which leaves psychic powers as reliable as random guessing.
Which also means it's redundant to even say it's a real thing. If it's as good as guessing then it IS guessing.

Lynn Mctaggart mentioned lots of positive results in her book The Field but upon further investigation I found that lots of those stats were interpreted incorrecty and there was a bit of fudging going on.
Another big problem is people do experiments with supposed amazing results, like that water guy, Emo something....where water responds to emotion. Those experiments have been reproduced many times and they never work for anyone else.

Same with The Intention Experiment by Mctaggart and Dr William Tiller who did these fascinating experiments with imprinting intention onto these devices, I even bought his book.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_A._Tiller
He claims he's proven intention can effect matter and that scholarship wont' accept his work.
This was 10 years ago and any attempts for other teams to reproduce his work hasn't panned out so I don't know?

I've followed many of the critiques of his work and have realized he's a bit nutty. He claims to have discovered "subtle energy" which is related to the spiritual world. He's also using lots of buzzwords "we are spirits using a physical body", and has lately gone fully off the rails with his new-age babble.

Tiller was another person who gained momentum right after The Secret and What the Bleep Do We Know? came out.
Tiller was actually in What the Bleep so that got him going.

All of those authors, Joe Vitale, Radin, Michael Beckwith, Dooley, etc... all wrote books about the Law of Attraction that was promised to change your reality however you wanted it to.
James Arthur Ray was a self proclaimed master of LOA, he spoke a lot in the Secret, then he went to jail for 2 years after some of his guests died during hot meditation.


The whole scene is just embarrassing. It ruined new age for me.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: transient amnesia on February 15, 2018, 01:18:34 PM
...
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Joelr on April 01, 2018, 05:16:57 PM
Interesting connection,

Seth said:

"Christ, the historical Christ, was not crucified. - You will have to give me time here. (Pause.)

He had no intention of dying in that manner; but others felt that to fulfill the prophecies in all ways, a crucifixion was a necessity. Christ did not take part in it (Pause.) There was a conspiracy in which Judas: played a role an attempt to make a martyr out of Christ.  The man chosen was drugged-hence the necessity of helping him carry the cross (see Luke:23) and he was told that he was the Christ. He believed that he was. He was one of deluded, but he also himself believed that he, not the historical Christ, was to fulfill the prophecies. "


I recently found this in one of the Nag Hamaddi scrolls:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Treatise_of_the_Great_Seth

Second Treatise of the Great Seth is an apocryphal Gnostic writing discovered in the Codex VII of the Nag Hammadi codices and dates to around the third century. The author is unknown, and the Seth referenced in the title appears nowhere in the text. Instead Seth is thought to reference the third son of Adam and Eve to whom gnosis was first revealed, according to some gnostics. The author appears to belong to a group of gnostics who maintain that Jesus Christ was not crucified on the cross. Instead the text says that Simon of Cyrene was mistaken for Jesus and crucified in his place. Jesus is described as standing by and "laughing at their ignorance."

Those who believe Jesus to have died on the cross are said to believe in "a doctrine of a dead man." All those without gnosis - including those who had what would become orthodox beliefs, as well as the figures of Adam, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, David, Solomon, the prophets, and Moses - are all referred to as a "laughingstock." The text shows the derision which the gnostics felt towards those who did not realize their supposed "truth"; that the biblical text was false (in at least certain important respects) and that the God of the Jews was not the true God. Only the gnostics have access to the "truth".

The Treatise of the Great Seth is written from the first-person perspective of "Jesus".

Some Gnostics believed Jesus was not a man but a docetistic spirit, and therefore could not die. From the translation by Roger A. Bullard and Joseph A. Gibbons:" (end quote)


One of the Nag Hamaddi was given to Jung in 1961 but that was codex 1. I know Jane was into Jung. This text was from codex VII which according to Wiki was not translated until 1977, after Jane wrote that Seth stuff (I think?) So I don't think Jane would have seen this codex.

Obviously Seth does not claim to be related to Gnostic text (as far as I know?) but it is an interesting coincidence as they both are saying the same thing about the crufixion being someone other than Jesus. I admit it's just one point so it could just be a coincidence and "Seth" isn't that uncommon of a name (Adam and Eve's 3rd son was Seth) but still.....


Wait, did I just find a Seth connection that no one has ever known before? Or am I getting ahead of myself?
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Sena on April 01, 2018, 09:20:55 PM
Joel, I think Joseph Atwill is more plausible than the Great Seth story:

"American Biblical scholar Joseph Atwill will be appearing before the British public for the first time in London on the 19th of October 2013 to present a controversial new discovery: ancient confessions recently uncovered now prove, according to Atwill, that the New Testament was written by first-century Roman aristocrats and that they fabricated the entire story of Jesus Christ. ....

Atwill asserts that Christianity did not really begin as a religion, but a sophisticated government project, a kind of propaganda exercise used to pacify the subjects of the Roman Empire. "Jewish sects in Palestine at the time, who were waiting for a prophesied warrior Messiah, were a constant source of violent insurrection during the first century," he explains. "When the Romans had exhausted conventional means of quashing rebellion, they switched to psychological warfare. They surmised that the way to stop the spread of zealous Jewish missionary activity was to create a competing belief system. That's when the 'peaceful' Messiah story was invented. Instead of inspiring warfare, this Messiah urged turn-the-other-cheek pacifism and encouraged Jews to 'give onto Caesar' and pay their taxes to Rome."

http://uk.prweb.com/releases/2013/10/prweb11201273.htm
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Joelr on April 01, 2018, 11:05:00 PM
Quote from: Sena (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=11027#msg11027)
Joel, I think Joseph Atwill is more plausible than the Great Seth story:

"American Biblical scholar Joseph Atwill will be appearing before the British public for the first time in London on the 19th of October 2013 to present a controversial new discovery: ancient confessions recently uncovered now prove, according to Atwill, that the New Testament was written by first-century Roman aristocrats and that they fabricated the entire story of Jesus Christ. ....

Atwill asserts that Christianity did not really begin as a religion, but a sophisticated government project, a kind of propaganda exercise used to pacify the subjects of the Roman Empire. "Jewish sects in Palestine at the time, who were waiting for a prophesied warrior Messiah, were a constant source of violent insurrection during the first century," he explains. "When the Romans had exhausted conventional means of quashing rebellion, they switched to psychological warfare. They surmised that the way to stop the spread of zealous Jewish missionary activity was to create a competing belief system. That's when the 'peaceful' Messiah story was invented. Instead of inspiring warfare, this Messiah urged turn-the-other-cheek pacifism and encouraged Jews to 'give onto Caesar' and pay their taxes to Rome."

http://uk.prweb.com/releases/2013/10/prweb11201273.htm


Ugg Atwill, beware of crank theories. Read Richard Carriers review post before taking Atwill serious.

https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/4664

"Joseph Atwill is one of those crank mythers I often get conflated with. Mythicists like him make the job of serious scholars like me so much harder, because people see, hear, or read them and think their nonsense is what mythicism is. They make mythicism look ridiculous. So I have to waste time (oh by the gods, so much time) explaining how I am not arguing anything like their theories or using anything like their terrible methods, and unlike them I actually know what I am talking about, and have an actual Ph.D. in a relevant subject from a real university......"

Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Sena on April 02, 2018, 05:59:12 AM
Quote from: Joelr (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=11028#msg11028)
Quote from: Sena (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=11027#msg11027)
Joel, I think Joseph Atwill is more plausible than the Great Seth story:

"American Biblical scholar Joseph Atwill will be appearing before the British public for the first time in London on the 19th of October 2013 to present a controversial new discovery: ancient confessions recently uncovered now prove, according to Atwill, that the New Testament was written by first-century Roman aristocrats and that they fabricated the entire story of Jesus Christ. ....

Atwill asserts that Christianity did not really begin as a religion, but a sophisticated government project, a kind of propaganda exercise used to pacify the subjects of the Roman Empire. "Jewish sects in Palestine at the time, who were waiting for a prophesied warrior Messiah, were a constant source of violent insurrection during the first century," he explains. "When the Romans had exhausted conventional means of quashing rebellion, they switched to psychological warfare. They surmised that the way to stop the spread of zealous Jewish missionary activity was to create a competing belief system. That's when the 'peaceful' Messiah story was invented. Instead of inspiring warfare, this Messiah urged turn-the-other-cheek pacifism and encouraged Jews to 'give onto Caesar' and pay their taxes to Rome."

http://uk.prweb.com/releases/2013/10/prweb11201273.htm


Ugg Atwill, beware of crank theories. Read Richard Carriers review post before taking Atwill serious.

https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/4664

"Joseph Atwill is one of those crank mythers I often get conflated with. Mythicists like him make the job of serious scholars like me so much harder, because people see, hear, or read them and think their nonsense is what mythicism is. They make mythicism look ridiculous. So I have to waste time (oh by the gods, so much time) explaining how I am not arguing anything like their theories or using anything like their terrible methods, and unlike them I actually know what I am talking about, and have an actual Ph.D. in a relevant subject from a real university......"



"Jesus Did Not Exist: A Debate Among Atheists, was published November 12, 2015, with foreword and afterword by Richard Carrier."
"Per any evidence outside of the New Testament, for Jesus’s existence, Carrier writes;

There is no independent evidence of Jesus’s existence outside the New Testament. All external evidence for his existence, even if it were fully authentic (though much of it isn’t), cannot be shown to be independent of the Gospels, or Christian informants relying on the Gospels. None of it can be shown to independently corroborate the Gospels as to the historicity of Jesus. Not one single item of evidence. Regardless of why no independent evidence survives (it does not matter the reason), no such evidence survives."

"Carrier asserts that originally "Jesus was the name of a celestial being, subordinate to God, with whom some people hallucinated conversations"[87] and "The Gospel began as a mythic allegory about the celestial Jesus, set on earth, as most myths then were"[87] (see Jesus in comparative mythology). Stories were created that placed Jesus on Earth, in context with historical figures and places. Eventually people began to believe that these allegorical stories were real.[87][89]

A celestial being, subordinate to God:
Carrier notes, "Jesus was originally a god just like any other god (properly speaking, a demigod in pagan terms; an archangel in Jewish terms; in either sense, a deity), who was later historicized."[4] (I would be inclined to agree with this)
Hallucinated conversations:
Carrier gives as example Joseph Smith—the founder of Mormonism—who declared that he had conversations with the Angel Moroni."

"Reviewing On the Historicity of Jesus: Why We Might Have Reason for Doubt, Christina Petterson of the University of Newcastle, Australia, in the academic journal Relegere, says Carrier's methodology is "tenuous", that she was "shocked" by the way he uses mathematics,and that Carrier uses statistics in a way that seems designed "to intentionally confuse and obfuscate". Petterson says that statements in the book "reveal Carrier's ignorance of the field of New Testament studies and early Christianity"."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Carrier#Jesus_ahistoricity_theory

Slanging matches appear to be the rule in Jesus studies.

Joel, you and Carrier may well be right about Atwill. I am personally not inclined to take Jesus seriously.
The gods of Candomblé are probably as credible as Jesus.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Joelr on April 02, 2018, 06:14:25 PM
Quote from: Sena (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=11029#msg11029)

"Reviewing On the Historicity of Jesus: Why We Might Have Reason for Doubt, Christina Petterson of the University of Newcastle, Australia, in the academic journal Relegere, says Carrier's methodology is "tenuous", that she was "shocked" by the way he uses mathematics,and that Carrier uses statistics in a way that seems designed "to intentionally confuse and obfuscate". Petterson says that statements in the book "reveal Carrier's ignorance of the field of New Testament studies and early Christianity"."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Carrier#Jesus_ahistoricity_theory

Slanging matches appear to be the rule in Jesus studies.

Joel, you and Carrier may well be right about Atwill. I am personally not inclined to take Jesus seriously.
The gods of Candomblé are probably as credible as Jesus.



Carrier wrote a piece about that review where he pointed out she admitted to not understanding the math and had no actual criticisms of his book. In his archives there is a page that lists all the reviews for each of his books and he writes about them sometimes showing the criticism is just apologetics and absurd and sometimes stuff needs further explaining, anyway.....for the life of me I cannot find that page. I have links to individual review discussions they are under "archives" but I can't find any parent archive page and searches don't work under "review responses".
.

So the hell with it, if Carrier doesn't want to organize his blog so people can actually find stuff then I can't go any further with that. It's a page with every review of every book and a link to a response and it's just IMPOSSIBLE to locate?? Lame?
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Joelr on April 16, 2018, 08:20:28 PM
Quote from: Sena (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=11029#msg11029)


"Reviewing On the Historicity of Jesus: Why We Might Have Reason for Doubt, Christina Petterson of the University of Newcastle, Australia, in the academic journal Relegere, says Carrier's methodology is "tenuous", that she was "shocked" by the way he uses mathematics,and that Carrier uses statistics in a way that seems designed "to intentionally confuse and obfuscate". Petterson says that statements in the book "reveal Carrier's ignorance of the field of New Testament studies and early Christianity"."




Ok here it is:
https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/12038

this is a response by Carrier to Christina Petterson's review, he really chopped her up pretty good.

Carrier tends to really bring out anger in people as do all of the atheist/mythicist theory people do.
It's really neither here nor there if you're not a Christian anyways, it doesn't really matter what the exact history was. It's like Hercules and Zeus, who cares how the myth started. But since I was raised christian the historicity stuff is interesting to me.

But the more interesting questions are the metaphysical questions, like what is reality. It's cool that Seth put his model forward. It's a much much more realistic model than religion offers anyways.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Sena on May 02, 2018, 12:11:42 AM
Quote from: strangerthings (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=11115#msg11115)
Christ believers, Horus believers, Hunahapu believers, are into the same concepts, for their own culture.
ST, welcome back to the forum. Horus is Egyptian, Hunahapu is Native American. There was a post recently about "That Art Thou" (Tat Twam Asi).
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Deb on May 02, 2018, 08:35:40 AM
I thought I'd toss this into the mix, it's an unpublished session from one of Rob's typed transcript, courtesy of Ron Card on Facebook who has original transcripts with some unpublished sessions. I'll be adding this to the related "Seth On" topic when I get the time.

Seth: “The exploits of the historical Christ were composed of the activities of several men, wound into myth and fantasy – woven into a tale so spectacular, however, that it changed the course of civilization. Christianity is so important precisely because it is not based upon that realm of activity that you call fact.

Christianity gained its vitality because its roots superseded the world of fact, and formed the legend of a man called Christ, who within himself contained the most divine attributes that man could imagine, and gave birth in an historical context to an understandable picture of man’s greater reality. Men believed what they wanted to believe, and so from the lives of several men they formed a legend – each believing the legend to be true. One of the men, Paul, was a charlatan. Yet he was a miracle-worker, for he inflamed men’s imaginations and in his deception proved the validity of a vision in which he himself did not believe.

Now, the story of Paul comes down to you, and the story of his miraculous conversion — yet there were numberless unknown others as “legitimately” struck by God — awakened into truth, who followed other Gods, other pathways that were not accepted in your historic line of continuity. None of this contradicts the existence of the Christ spirit — which always existed despite, or separate from, the individual or individuals involved.

There were miracle-workers all over Jerusalem. Rome was dead already, and no fire was burning. That fire became Christianity, but it burned messiahs in its wake. Early Christianity was filled with fire, and only its oriental connections gave it touches of mercy.

The texts were rewritten time and time again. In some ways Paul destroyed more than he saved. It took centuries for the theories to jell.”

- Seth’s unpublished session 748 for June 2, 1975.

Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.

Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Joelr on May 02, 2018, 06:57:54 PM
That is interesting. But what the history is looking like is that the Jesus story had already been done and was moving through Asia  - Romulus, Zalmoxus, Innanna, and four other pre-Christian gods that we know for sure were before Christ.
They all contained elements of a personal savior demi-god who battled satan/death, died and was ressurected and baptisim into the cult gave a follower forgiveness of sins and entry into an eternal realm. 12 apostles, virgin birth, carpenter demi-god, all that stuff was created with this new model.

The Jewish version was the last version. It's believed that writers of early scripture were looking for a way to re-vitalize Judaisim because the Jesus story is also a re-working of Moses and Isaih but for a new generation, which also included the new updated demi-god myth that was popular. People were tired of going to temple daily so Jesus replaced that need as well. Also the temple was destroyed.

Because of the Persian invasion and other wars the cultures were being mixed. The Seth version seems to give a lot of emphasis on Christ being a sort of original movement - "Christ entity" seems a bit intense being that it's really just mythology.
So is there a "Hercules entity" or a Thor entity or whatnot? If there is a Christ entity then why not an "entity" for every single myth? What about Santa Clause?
Seth's material on Christ seems to be influenced by Jane is what I'm getting at.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Deb on May 06, 2018, 08:45:19 AM
Quote from: Seth (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=11119#msg11119)
The texts were rewritten time and time again. In some ways Paul destroyed more than he saved. It took centuries for the theories to jell.

Blame it all on Paul. Just sayin'.

"CHRIST’S VENTRILOQUISTS is a work of investigative history. It documents and describes Christianity’s creation-event, which occurred in the year 49 or 50, in Antioch (present-day Antakya, Turkey), 20 years after Jesus had been crucified in Jerusalem for sedition against Roman rule. At this event, Paul broke away from the Jewish sect that Jesus had begun, and he took with him the majority of this new Jewish sect’s members; he convinced these people that Jesus had been a god, and that the way to win eternal salvation in heaven is to worship him as such."

[. . .]

"This book also explains and documents the tortuous 14-year-long conflict Paul had had with this sect’s leader, Jesus’s brother James, a conflict which caused Paul, in about the year 50, to perpetrate his coup d’état against James, and to start his own new religion: Christianity. 

"Then, this historical probe documents that the four canonical Gospel accounts of the words and actions of “Jesus” were written decades after Jesus, by followers of Paul, not by followers of Jesus; and that these writings placed into the mouth of “Jesus” the agenda of Paul. Paul thus became, via his followers, Christ’s ventriloquist."

https://www.amazon.com/CHRISTS-VENTRILOQUISTS-Event-Created-Christianity-ebook/dp/B007Q1H4EG/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: chasman on May 06, 2018, 08:37:20 PM
hey Deb,
      you remind me of a term I read years ago...... Pauline Christianity:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauline_Christianity
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Sena on May 07, 2018, 01:23:23 AM
Quote from: chasman (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=11123#msg11123)
hey Deb,
      you remind me of a term I read years ago...... Pauline Christianity:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauline_Christianity
chasman, Paul was a nice guy.

"This is evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are also suffering— since indeed God considers it just to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus." (Paul to the Thessalonians)

http://biblehub.com/esv/2_thessalonians/1.htm
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: chasman on May 07, 2018, 05:46:54 AM
wow. brutal.
Jesus was teaching love.
that quote from Paul does not paint a loving picture.

imagine instead a loving, unconditionally loving God and Lord.
non-judgmental. nurturing. all forgiving. all caring.
those would be the God and Lord for me.

Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Deb on May 07, 2018, 05:45:31 PM
Quote from: chasman (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=11127#msg11127)
imagine instead a loving, unconditionally loving God and Lord.
non-judgmental. nurturing. all forgiving. all caring.

And that sounds like ATI to me. The Safe Universe.

I don't know, could be due to my lack of religious education (despite the efforts of family and more recently, neighbors), but Paul is starting to sound like a bit if a fanatic to me.

Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: chasman on May 07, 2018, 07:48:14 PM
right on Deb.
very good.
thank you.

I have no religion. have not for decades.
born and raised Catholic.
but that was long ago now.
that said, I've said it before, but perhaps its worth repeating.
as for religion, I like what the Dalai Lama said:
my religion is simple. my religion is kindness.

as for God, ATI, I think of the source of all good kind things. the source of love power.
joy energy.
I wonder if Jesus (who taught love), would have been a-pauled (appalled), at what Paul said. lol
when I think of God, I think of wisdom.
and to me, to be kind is to be wise.
 
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Joelr on May 08, 2018, 05:50:48 AM
Quote from: Deb (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=11121#msg11121)
Quote from: Seth (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=11119#msg11119)
The texts were rewritten time and time again. In some ways Paul destroyed more than he saved. It took centuries for the theories to jell.

Blame it all on Paul. Just sayin'.

"CHRIST’S VENTRILOQUISTS is a work of investigative history. It documents and describes Christianity’s creation-event, which occurred in the year 49 or 50, in Antioch (present-day Antakya, Turkey), 20 years after Jesus had been crucified in Jerusalem for sedition against Roman rule. At this event, Paul broke away from the Jewish sect that Jesus had begun, and he took with him the majority of this new Jewish sect’s members; he convinced these people that Jesus had been a god, and that the way to win eternal salvation in heaven is to worship him as such."

[. . .]

"This book also explains and documents the tortuous 14-year-long conflict Paul had had with this sect’s leader, Jesus’s brother James, a conflict which caused Paul, in about the year 50, to perpetrate his coup d’état against James, and to start his own new religion: Christianity.

"Then, this historical probe documents that the four canonical Gospel accounts of the words and actions of “Jesus” were written decades after Jesus, by followers of Paul, not by followers of Jesus; and that these writings placed into the mouth of “Jesus” the agenda of Paul. Paul thus became, via his followers, Christ’s ventriloquist."

https://www.amazon.com/CHRISTS-VENTRILOQUISTS-Event-Created-Christianity-ebook/dp/B007Q1H4EG/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8


That book is full of speculation and has not passed peer review by the pHD history community. The actual field of biblical studies have pointed out that Mark might have already been written when Paul wrote his letters because Paul references only revelation and scripture.

There is no evidence that Jesus has an Earthly brother except in ACTS which is fiction created by the church to add facts to Jesus's life.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Joelr on May 08, 2018, 05:54:15 AM
Quote from: chasman (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=11127#msg11127)
wow. brutal.
Jesus was teaching love.
that quote from Paul does not paint a loving picture.

imagine instead a loving, unconditionally loving God and Lord.
non-judgmental. nurturing. all forgiving. all caring.
those would be the God and Lord for me.



Jesus was teaching lots of things. In Matthew he said he does not come for peace but with the sword for non-believers and he will cast them into an eternal lake of fire.

Jesus teaching only love is a new-age idea that isn't based in reality at all.

In Mark Jesus sens a disciple to a town and he says:
"Whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you.... It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city." In other words - Any city that doesn't "receive" the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah.
 Jesus taught vengence, death to non-believers, it's ok to rape a slave girl, and many many mean and violent ideas, not just love. Not even close.

Just pick up a bible and read the new testament.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Sena on May 08, 2018, 08:14:52 AM
Quote from: Joelr (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=11132#msg11132)
There is no evidence that Jesus has an Earthly brother except in ACTS which is fiction created by the church to add facts to Jesus's life
"Explanations of the true relationship of the 'brothers' of Jesus within his immediate nuclear family fall primarily into three categories. The first, called "the most natural inference" of the Gospel text by the Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church, is that the brothers of Jesus were the children of his parents, Joseph and Mary": See the family tree at Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brothers_of_Jesus#Degree_of_consanguinity_between_Jesus_and_his_brothers

It is the doctrine of the Virgin Birth which is a total lie fabricated by the Church. If it was a Virgin Birth, Jesus should have been female.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Sena on May 08, 2018, 08:23:07 AM
Quote from: Joelr (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=11133#msg11133)
Jesus taught vengence, death to non-believers, it's ok to rape a slave girl, and many many mean and violent ideas, not just love. Not even close.
And the doctrine of Everlasting Hell, which was not there in the Old Testament.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: LarryH on May 08, 2018, 08:55:28 AM
Quote from: Sena (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=11135#msg11135)
And the doctrine of Everlasting Hell, which was not there in the Old Testament.
I recently heard in a Coast-to-Coast interview a pretty logical argument against an eternal Hell: If you take the most evil person in history (say Hitler, for the sake of argument), as much suffering as he caused, it is still finite suffering. But eternal damnation is infinite, thus infinitely more suffering than this person caused.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Deb on May 08, 2018, 10:02:09 AM
Quote from: Sena (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=11134#msg11134)
If it was a Virgin Birth, Jesus should have been female.

Heh, heh, heh, great point Sena. I guess by the same token, Eve would have to be a guy, right? But I don't suppose miracles follow the rules, that's what makes them special.

Quote from: Joelr (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=11132#msg11132)
That book is full of speculation and has not passed peer review by the pHD history community. The actual field of biblical studies have pointed out that Mark might have already been written when Paul wrote his letters because Paul references only revelation and scripture.

There is no evidence that Jesus has an Earthly brother except in ACTS which is fiction created by the church to add facts to Jesus's life.

Peer review by the PhD history community? Do they really know the absolute truth?

Being the heathen that I am, I tend to take everything in the bible and attributed to Jesus with a salt lick. I also consider anything that Jesus supposedly said as hearsay, and anything written about Jesus and those times has to be speculation. You wrote "might have already been written"—"might" would be speculation, don't you think? As far as I know there is still no solid proof of anything in this area. While I'm not researching Christian history, I would think that if there was some major recent proof discovered it would be in the news.

Some interesting points are made here in this 20 year old article:
https://www.atheists.org/activism/resources/did-jesus-exist/

And to be fair, there is no proof that Seth ever existed either, right? But that doesn't stop me from enjoying and benefiting from the books and messages within. No hell or brimstone either.

Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: chasman on May 08, 2018, 03:33:31 PM

"Jesus was teaching lots of things. In Matthew he said he does not come for peace but with the sword for non-believers and he will cast them into an eternal lake of fire.

Jesus teaching only love is a new-age idea that isn't based in reality at all.

In Mark Jesus sens a disciple to a town and he says:
"Whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you.... It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city." In other words - Any city that doesn't "receive" the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah.
 Jesus taught vengence, death to non-believers, it's ok to rape a slave girl, and many many mean and violent ideas, not just love. Not even close.

Just pick up a bible and read the new testament."

This is very upsetting.
I have not been a Catholic for many decades now.  No organized religion at all.
But for a long time  I have believed in the utter goodness and lovingness of Jesus.
And now I wonder.
Is it possible you are  wrong?
I'm only wondering.
What if Jesus really was all the good things.  But  people wrote things about him that were not true.
Even in the new testament.



Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: chasman on May 08, 2018, 03:35:08 PM
I like your  post very much Deb.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: chasman on May 08, 2018, 05:40:41 PM
"Jesus taught vengence, death to non-believers, it's ok to rape a slave girl, and many many mean and violent ideas, not just love. Not even close."

(I'm able to type on my laptop, much better than on my phone, so here goes.)

Joel, ouch.
that's very harsh.
but if its true, than I need to forget my previous belief in the excellent loving wonderful awesome nature of Jesus. I thought he was the great teacher of love.
if I'm wrong, then I'm wrong.
my God, would be a loving forgiving God. always. to everyone.
what if Jesus, really was a good guy. not a hood guy. not a thug. not a dude telling people to hurt and kill each other. (utterly despicable.)
and then his ideas, were corrupted.
his loving message and teachings were hijacked.
and the rest is history.
just wondering. how reliable are your and my sources?
how do we  know what to believe?
I think that the Seth stuff is clearly on a high plane. I think that it is saying love is supreme.
to be loving........ it is the way to be.
ATI is just alright with me (sung to the tune of Jesus is Just Alright With Me, of course).
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Joelr on May 09, 2018, 01:25:38 AM
Quote from: chasman (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=11140#msg11140)
"Jesus taught vengence, death to non-believers, it's ok to rape a slave girl, and many many mean and violent ideas, not just love. Not even close."

(I'm able to type on my laptop, much better than on my phone, so here goes.)

Joel, ouch.
that's very harsh.
but if its true, than I need to forget my previous belief in the excellent loving wonderful awesome nature of Jesus. I thought he was the great teacher of love.
if I'm wrong, then I'm wrong.
my God, would be a loving forgiving God. always. to everyone.
what if Jesus, really was a good guy. not a hood guy. not a thug. not a dude telling people to hurt and kill each other. (utterly despicable.)
and then his ideas, were corrupted.
his loving message and teachings were hijacked.
and the rest is history.
just wondering. how reliable are your and my sources?
how do we  know what to believe?
I think that the Seth stuff is clearly on a high plane. I think that it is saying love is supreme.
to be loving........ it is the way to be.
ATI is just alright with me (sung to the tune of Jesus is Just Alright With Me, of course).


Looking through the new testament it's clear a lot of the good wisdom people knew of at that time (from Hindu and other established sources)was attributed to Jesus to bring this wisdom to a more modern crowd. So a lot of good stuff is there. But there is a lot of now-outdated knowledge as well. Jesus was a big believer in hell and Satan and non-believers going to hell and suffering for eternity.

the skeptics bible has a section of cruelty in the OT and NT
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html

and on intolerance:
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/int/long.html

The stuff about non-judgment and love and all the good stuff was also in Hindu and other pre-Christian religions as well as in Judiasim in some forms. It was also in the Gnostic Christian religions that were wiped out by the orthadox church.

It's believed the gospels are not actually historical but that is all we have as far as information on Jesus goes. If you want to imagine Jesus as some hippy, love is all you need guy then why not? What does it matter?
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Joelr on May 09, 2018, 01:51:29 AM
Quote from: Deb (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=11137#msg11137)
Quote from: Sena (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=11134#msg11134)
If it was a Virgin Birth, Jesus should have been female.



Quote from: Joelr (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=11132#msg11132)
That book is full of speculation and has not passed peer review by the pHD history community. The actual field of biblical studies have pointed out that Mark might have already been written when Paul wrote his letters because Paul references only revelation and scripture.

There is no evidence that Jesus has an Earthly brother except in ACTS which is fiction created by the church to add facts to Jesus's life.

Peer review by the PhD history community? Do they really know the absolute truth?

Being the heathen that I am, I tend to take everything in the bible and attributed to Jesus with a salt lick. I also consider anything that Jesus supposedly said as hearsay, and anything written about Jesus and those times has to be speculation. You wrote "might have already been written"—"might" would be speculation, don't you think? As far as I know there is still no solid proof of anything in this area. While I'm not researching Christian history, I would think that if there was some major recent proof discovered it would be in the news.

Some interesting points are made here in this 20 year old article:
https://www.atheists.org/activism/resources/did-jesus-exist/

And to be fair, there is no proof that Seth ever existed either, right? But that doesn't stop me from enjoying and benefiting from the books and messages within. No hell or brimstone either.



The thing about "peer review" in the historicity field is significant. To go from masters to pHD the entire several years are all spent learning how to verify sources to make the most accurate work possible. Then when a work is completed it must be combed over very carefully by other PHD people who check sources and so on.
Why is this important? Well I used to not care about that and I read all these books on early Christianity and I had all this information that I would discuss with people. Then I started paying attention to what actual scholars had to say and I realized all the "historical" books were largely made up nonsense designed to sell books.

So the field itself isn't perfect but they take all historical information and very carefully weigh sources and this and that and try to come to a reasonable consensis of what actually happened. And when they all agree then it's likely that that is what actually happened historically. Or at least that is our best guess. On the flip side, ANYONE can write a book and make up sources and actually completely lie and it's been done. I've seen articles explaining why one particular book (a book on Ceasar being Jesus) was completely made up and the author would just use complete denial and never even went to any school or used any source to write his book.

Another guy - Bart Ehrman wrote a book on Jesus and Richard Carrier wrote a piece on it exposing many many lies Ehrman used. So because of how many people out there will write books on subjects and claim to be "experts" it's important to have some type of standard.
So real historians are the ones who have the time to check sources and do the work. I started reading history thinking information was easy to get and everyone tells the truth but I was so wrong.
So when it comes to historical information I think it's important to see how a work fares with peer review.

Right now we know Mark was the first gospel but we don't know if Paul knew of the Mark gospel or if Paul was referencing some other scripture when he mentioned scripture.
We do know ACTS is fiction, there are several good peer reviewed books on that topic. Acts says Jesus had a brother but we are pretty sure that Acts is a fiction made up by the church mach later, to give Jesus and Paul certain features they wanted him to have (like a brother)
In the Paulean letters is where the other reference to "brother" is but many scholars believe this is a reference to "brothers in the lord" type brother.

That is the extent of the "brother" thing.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: chasman on May 09, 2018, 06:09:54 AM
thank you for your reply Joelr.
what do you think about Hell and Satan?
do you think they exist?
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Joelr on May 09, 2018, 06:58:07 PM
Quote from: chasman (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=11143#msg11143)
thank you for your reply Joelr.
what do you think about Hell and Satan?
do you think they exist?


Well I am a mythicist meaning I believe the latest work by pHD Richard Carrier proves the Jesus story was 100% mythology.
The demonology - hell/Satan - comes from the same place the dying/rising messiah demigod comes from, originally Zorastrinisim then into several other religions then came a Jewish version which was Jesus.

If you read this blog post:
https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/13890

you will see that all of Christianity is taken from pagan sources which originated from Zorastrianism. So that included Satan and hell. Judaism didn't have any afterlife or evil Satan god before the Persian invasion, then suddenly you see that stuff appearing in the OT. The Persians were the Zorastrianism people.

So I believe the idea of Satan and hell is a pagan idea (we know it is) and the only connection to reality is that it's a metaphor.
Do bad things and bad things might happen to you. Promote violence and eventually you will get violence.
That is a general rule, not 100% because peaceful people also meet violent ends as well. So nothing is 100% but it seems like a good metaphor.
Hell and Satan are one of the things I mean by "outdated", it's ancient demonology that no longer serves us because most people don't believe that stuff is literal anymore.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: chasman on May 09, 2018, 08:39:25 PM
thank you.
fascinating. I skimmed that article.
wow. so much I have absolutely no clue about.
I'm looking forward to reading more.
thank you again.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Michael Sternbach on May 26, 2018, 10:30:37 PM
Hey folks,

Good to "see" you. Haven't been around for awhile.  :)

Just for the record, Christ's Ventriloquists, if anything, lends support to the statements Seth makes towards the end of Seth Speaks. For one thing (running from memory), he does say there that Paul was overly zealous in his approach to spreading the new religion and consequently messed up. And Zuesse's book (which I haven't read yet, though I am surely going to) seems to greatly illustrate and elaborate on this important point.

Seth also emphasizes that the story around the Crucifixion was primarily a psychic event, meaningful in its own right, while much of it didn't occur on the physical level. That again seems consistent with Zuesse's hypothesis, according to which the content of the Gospels was partially contrived for 'political' reasons.

But Zuesse does NOT suggest that the story of Jesus had no foundation in reality whatsoever, rather, he hints (in the introduction) at those mentions of Jesus in sources outside the Biblical Gospels. Just saying that those sources didn't have any appreciable impact on Christianity overall. Again, he seems quite in keeping with Seth's view.

Some such (Gnostic) texts are at odds with the story of the Crucifixion, much like Seth's version of the historical events. So more power to him.

However, I learned quickly that there is no safer way to upset even a moderate Christian more than by questioning the reality of the Crucifixion.  ;D Whereas personally, I always cared more for Jesus's teachings, as they have come down to us also outside the Biblical Gospels, most note-worthy in the Gospel of Thomas. Great wisdom in there, IMO! And it strikes me as weird that some devout Christians refuse to even look at this and certain other apocryphal texts.

I may have additional remarks to make once I have read Christ's Ventriloquists, and reread the relevant chapter of Seth Speaks.

For the time being, I just applaud Seth and Jane Roberts for their psychic foresight as well as courage to present what now looks like a more accurate picture of what actually happened in those days, published at a time when there was basically no critical discussion allowed yet regarding it.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Deb on May 29, 2018, 12:17:24 AM
Quote from: Michael Sternbach (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=11148#msg11148)
I may have additional remarks to make once I have read Christ's Ventriloquists

Please do! At this point all I can think is that the whole Christ story was for the most part a fabrication, as well as the quotes, actions and history attributed to him. Seth does indicate that there was a Jesus person who did exist in reality, but the facts around his existence and history are for the most part legend. Which is what I personally feel and can accept.

Even such a basic tenet as the Golden Rule (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rule), attributed solely to Jesus in my upbringing, has historical roots beyond the scope Christ and Christianity.

Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Joelr on May 29, 2018, 02:32:16 AM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rule#Ancient_India

I would wait and see what scholarship has to say about Eric Zuesse's work. Check out the reviews from scholars to see how accurate his work is.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: LarryH on May 29, 2018, 08:22:40 AM
I do not recall a source for this tidbit, but I once heard or read that one of my favorite quotes attributed to Jesus, defending an accused woman about to be stoned, "He who is without sin, let him throw the first stone," was not in the earliest known version of the gospels - it was added later.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Deb on May 29, 2018, 11:44:19 AM
Nice one Larry! There are a lot of great adages from the bible. I've always loved adages in general because they contain eternal truths in just a few words. Another favorite of mine is the "first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will be able to see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye."

People still seem to have trouble with that one.  ;)
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Sena on May 29, 2018, 01:59:17 PM
Quote from: Deb (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=11152#msg11152)
Another favorite of mine is the "first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will be able to see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye."
Deb, not sitting in judgement on other people is a clear message from Seth.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Deb on May 29, 2018, 03:21:55 PM
Yes, true. And to not judge ourselves, to trust that who and what we are, as individuals, have a purpose. Charity begins at home, right?

I had the weirdest thought today that the return of the Christ personality could be Seth. I'll have to think about that some more. Judging by all the Seth Facebook groups and pages and members, his message is certainly stronger and more widely spread than ever before. World wide. Having that many Seth readers (who actually understand the materials and the messages) has to be good for humanity as a whole, don't you think? The trinity of Seth, Jane and Rob made the seed planting a possibility, and the message continues to grow far and wide. Laurel marrying Rob was no accident either, she's much younger than Jane and Rob and I think it was pre-planned in F2 that she would continue to carry the torch after Jane and Rob passed. Laurel helped Rob publish books after Jane passed, so she knows the process.

Ron put this up on FB, it caught my attention:

"Physically speaking, man's purpose is to help enrich the quality of existence in all of its dimensions. Spiritually speaking, his purpose is to understand the qualities of love and creativity, to intellectually and physically understand the sources of his being, and lovingly create other dimensions of reality of which his is presently unaware."

Dreams, Evolution I, Session 901
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Sena on May 31, 2018, 06:31:50 AM
Quote from: Deb (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=11154#msg11154)
I had the weirdest thought today that the return of the Christ personality could be Seth.
That is a distinct (and exciting) possibility.
Seth would not have said so explicitly, as that would have been blowing his own trumpet.
This is a gospel quotation:

"And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come. He who has ears, let him hear. To what can I compare this generation? They are like children sitting in the marketplaces and calling out to others."

http://biblehub.com/matthew/11-15.htm
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Michael Sternbach on June 01, 2018, 12:37:33 AM
Quote from: Deb (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=11154#msg11154)
Yes, true. And to not judge ourselves, to trust that who and what we are, as individuals, have a purpose. Charity begins at home, right?

I had the weirdest thought today that the return of the Christ personality could be Seth. I'll have to think about that some more. Judging by all the Seth Facebook groups and pages and members, his message is certainly stronger and more widely spread than ever before. World wide. Having that many Seth readers (who actually understand the materials and the messages) has to be good for humanity as a whole, don't you think? The trinity of Seth, Jane and Rob made the seed planting a possibility, and the message continues to grow far and wide. Laurel marrying Rob was no accident either, she's much younger than Jane and Rob and I think it was pre-planned in F2 that she would continue to carry the torch after Jane and Rob passed. Laurel helped Rob publish books after Jane passed, so she knows the process.

Ron put this up on FB, it caught my attention:

"Physically speaking, man's purpose is to help enrich the quality of existence in all of its dimensions. Spiritually speaking, his purpose is to understand the qualities of love and creativity, to intellectually and physically understand the sources of his being, and lovingly create other dimensions of reality of which his is presently unaware."

Dreams, Evolution I, Session 901


That's an interesting view, but I don't think it to be correct in a literal sense. Seth's description of the return of the Christ entity is too detailed for that.

Personally, I imagine that this individual will have a broad understanding of all the major spiritual and esoteric bodies of knowledge, and that would include the Seth material to be sure, so foundational to many of the more modern spiritual approaches.

Rather than limiting himself to any particular system (traditional or modern), he will demonstrate how they all refer to certain common topics, although sometimes looking at them from different perspectives. Based on that, the utter folly of waging war over divergent religious views should become entirely obvious to any but the most ignorant human beings. (Okay, ideally speaking.)

I further assume that the reincarnated Christ will also show ways to reconcile the spiritual with the scientific view, along the lines suggested by the Seth books.

All this seems to me in keeping with Seth's announcement that the reincarnated Christ will provide humanity with a much needed new 'metaphysical system of thought.'

Thoughts? (No pun intended.)
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Deb on June 01, 2018, 07:17:20 PM
Quote from: Michael Sternbach (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=11156#msg11156)
That's an interesting view, but I don't think it to be correct in a literal sense. Seth's description of the return of the Christ entity is too detailed for that.
. . .
Thoughts? (No pun intended.)

Shhhhh. I'm still enjoying the new perspective that Seth may be the Returned One. I've been too busy with work to do much more than think about that, but I intend to go over what he said about that topic with this new perspective in mind and see if anything looks different now. Little tidbits keep coming to mind. I could certainly be chasing after a red herring, but right now it has captured my imagination and I like that. And as far as I can tell, what you said in your post does not contradict that possibility.

I should also probably read this topic again from the beginning. Ouch, by far it is the most popular topic in the history of this forum. 23,707 views, 290 replies. This will be 291.

Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: chasman on June 01, 2018, 09:04:32 PM
hey Deb,
     just felt like chiming in.
this is my opinion. it is the way I see things right now.
I am not able to quote from the Bible and Scripture. I will probably make misteaks (har har de har).
but I hope the general gist will be clear, of how I see things.
I could be wrong about some things. but this is what I think anyway............

Seth was more advanced than Jesus.
Seth taught about and described love stuff.
a loving creative benevolent life energy force. all that is.
he did not talk about being God fearing.
he talked about love.
he did not talk about the threat of hell, and eternal damnation, and the devil if you did not believe in God and follow the commandments.
he talked about this Earthly existence being a school for all of us. we are here as students learning how to use energy. we are here to learn how to use energy in constructive ways. not destructive. constructive.
thats my thinking.
it would be interesting to hear a conversation between Jesus and Seth.
what would Jesus have to say about Seth's ideas regarding hell and eternal damnation?
wow, I would so love to know.
I just so prefer and love the idea of an all loving God force, compared to a mean punishing angry God.
 
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Sena on June 02, 2018, 02:24:37 AM
Quote from: chasman (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=11160#msg11160)
Seth was more advanced than Jesus.
Yes.
Quote
he did not talk about the threat of hell, and eternal damnation, and the devil if you did not believe in God and follow the commandments.
He corrected Jesus's mistakes.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Sena on June 02, 2018, 02:29:38 AM
Quote from: Deb (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=11158#msg11158)
but I intend to go over what he said about that topic with this new perspective in mind and see if anything looks different now. Little tidbits keep coming to mind.
"Now: the message of the Christ entity was, in religious terms “You are all children of God—the ‘sinner’ as well as the saint.” Indeed, according to the original Christ thesis, while a man could sin, no man was identified as a sinner. He was not identified with his failures or limitations, but instead with his potential.

The Christ entity knew the vitality, power, and strength of myths. That vitality allows for different readings, of course, and through man’s changing development he reads his myths differently, yet they serve as containers for intuitional knowledge.

Christ’s thesis was inserted into a Jewish tradition dealing deeply with guilt, and the new thesis was meant to temper that tradition, and to spread beyond it. Instead, while carrying the belief in man’s potential, Christianity smothered the thesis beneath a slag heap of old guilt. Guilt can be used to manipulate people, of course, and it is a fine tool in the hands of government, religion, science, or any large organization that wants to retain its power.

Christ dealt with myths, once again—potent ones that stood for inner realities. Christ clothed those realities in colorful stories geared to people’s understanding. I am using the name here, Christ, as one person for the sake of discussion, for that entity touched many lives, each leaping into a kind of super-reality as it joyfully played its part in the religious drama."

—TPS4 Deleted Session January 9, 1978
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Deb on June 02, 2018, 08:31:29 AM
Quote from: chasman (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=11160#msg11160)
Seth was more advanced than Jesus.
Seth taught about and described love stuff.
a loving creative benevolent life energy force. all that is.
he did not talk about being God fearing.
he talked about love.
he did not talk about the threat of hell, and eternal damnation, and the devil if you did not believe in God and follow the commandments.

Thanks for chiming in, I'm with you as far as avoiding quoting the bible. And this too is just my personal feeling, since I'm certainly no biblical scholar. Just the opposite actually.

I agree that Seth is more advanced than the character we understand to be Jesus from the New Testament, but my feeling is that everything the NT says about him has been completely fabricated to fit various religious agendas over the millennia. Words attributed to having been said by him were not even written down until decades(?) after his 'death.' Seth's teachings feel more entity-level to me, beyond the scope of one individual consciousness. Wise and benevolent with knowledge way beyond this plane of existence.

There may have been a man Jesus, I have no reason to doubt that, he had new ideas and was more loving in his teachings about ATI than what the Old-T Rabbis were maintaining, but any truth about the man has been dressed up and remade and disguised. Or as Seth said about his own teachings, the teachings of Speakers over the ages:

Rob: "I was just wondering why a body of knowledge like this couldn't have accumulated over the centuries, slowly."

Seth: "It has. But it has been taken into various doctrines and religions that have grown up about it until it is almost unrecognizable. Bits of it appear here and there, scattered, distorted and misleading. It comes naked and everyone must put clothing on it, which usually ends up as either nonsense or armored dogma."

The Early Sessions, Book 1, Session 34

An interesting twist to the Jesus story came through Facebook today. I'll add it in a spoiler because it's long and no one may be interested in reading it. But basically, it adds Jesus stories from Indian, Japanese and Muslim folklore. There's actually a "Tomb of Christ" in Japan, supposedly recognized by Israel (whatever that means).

Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: chasman on June 02, 2018, 02:51:48 PM
thank you very much for your reply Sena.
thank you for all you wrote Deb.
I love reading everything you write.
here are a couple more thoughts of mine.
the Christian Jesus, God the Father stuff is riddled with hypocrisy.
God loves us, and is all forgiving.
but, he'll send you to hell forever, if you don't believe in him, and obey him.
that is sooooooooo bad.
the Seth description of the almighty higher power All That Is, is super excellent.
All That Is, is "all that".
do you get my play on words? "all that"

http://onlineslangdictionary.com/meaning-definition-of/all-that

"superior, as good as it gets"

edit:  more thoughts.
its the utter meanness that I find so awful beyond words to describe though.
what kind of a God is that mean. that unforgiving. that messed up, that he (or she or it) sends you to hell forever? I think its absolutely awful.
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: Sena on June 03, 2018, 01:52:05 AM
Quote from: chasman (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=11165#msg11165)
what kind of a God is that mean. that unforgiving. that messed up, that he (or she or it) sends you to hell forever?
It all boils down to money. The Catholic Church became powerful because it was able to attract a lot of money in donations. You could be saved from hell if you gave money to the Church. This was called an "indulgence".

" .....in the later Middle Ages growth of considerable abuses occurred. Greedy commissaries sought to extract the maximum amount of money for each indulgence. Professional "pardoners" - who were sent to collect alms for a specific project - practiced the unrestricted sale of indulgences. Many of these quaestores exceeded official Church doctrine, whether in avarice or ignorant zeal, and promised rewards like salvation from eternal damnation in return for money."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indulgence
Title: Re: The return of Christ personality
Post by: chasman on June 03, 2018, 08:44:00 AM
wow. thank you very much Sena.
just amazing.