Author Topic: What happens after death?  (Read 858 times)

Offline Sena

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Seth is actually not very precise about what happens after death. He said that individuality is preserved, but what does this actually mean? Does it mean that Sena will continue with all his defects and faults? I don't think so. I think what Seth meant was that I will have some consciousness of myself as an individual.

I think Seth made it clear that the Entity is the primary reality in the afterlife. This is why he insisted on referring to Jane Roberts as Ruburt. Ruburt is the name of the entity of which Jane Roberts was a temporary personality. We should not expect to say hello to Jane Roberts after we die, but we may come across Ruburt in some form. Jane was sent to Earth by Ruburt to fulfil a specific purpose and task.

If we speak of immortality, it could be that Ruburt is immortal, although even that is not certain.

Offline Deb

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Quote from: Sena
He said that individuality is preserved, but what does this actually mean? Does it mean that Sena will continue with all his defects and faults? I don't think so. I think what Seth meant was that I will have some consciousness of myself as an individual.

I'm glad you brought that up, it's one of my planned "Seth On…" topics—The Afterdeath Existence. Seth had a lot to say about after death, but from the books I've read so far, I'm still not completely clear on the subject. I'm re-reading Seth Speaks, lots of information there on after death. This topic would be a great place to collect Seth's explanations of what the afterlife (or more appropriately, the original life) is like. I came across this woman today, Louise Mcfeat Smith, who talks about her relationship with her dead mother. Specifically for me, her mother after death is her "pure" self, having lost whatever Earthly traits she had. It reminded me of an Abraham-Hicks explanation of personalities after death: whatever burdens we carry in this existence are stripped away and we are our pure essence in F2. Without the defects and faults: pure.

Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.

It sounds like our after death locale is the same or similar to our dream one—Framework 2. There can be a transition period as we "come to our senses" and shed preconceived notions of the afterlife. We take our beliefs with us, at least at first, Seth has talked about a returning personality being met by a helper in the guise of whatever the newly transitioned personality is expecting to see (Jesus, Mohammad, "hell"). I think we Sethies are ahead of the curve.

If we do merge back into our oversoul or higher self, it is not with a loss of (our sense of) individuality (such as the cells in our body are one part of the greater self and yet retain their sense of individuality). Seth speaking through Jane was certainly an individual, even though he is/ was not materialized in our current plane of existence.

Our reality creation in F2 is much faster (no lag time)—because we will no longer be tied to the Earth-bound rules of time and space (another future "Seth On" topic: Primary Conditions).

Seth also talked about his fondness and creation of a middle-ages desk, our taking on of various appearances after death based on thought and memory. So again, not merged away from our individual-ness.

And then there's this:

"After death you may find yourself in a training center."
—SS Chapter 9: Session 537, June 24, 1970

I've been there. In a dream.

What I'd also like to know more about is the afterlife experience as it relates to incarnations. I mean, with time being simultaneous then incarnations are simultaneous, so where does death fit in with this? Seth told Rob that one of his mother's probable selves died and the energy from that "life" was transferred to the probable mother Rob knew. If lives are simultaneous, how does that happen? How does only one incarnation die? Simultaneous lives to me then mean simultaneous deaths. Being a visual person, I have a sort of flow chart in my mind of ATI being the source, several levels of oversouls, which are broken down into incarnations (with counterparts), which are then broken down into probable selves, etc.

So much more to learn.

Offline Sena

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Quote from: Deb
"After death you may find yourself in a training center."

Deb, thanks for finding this quote. More from Chapter 9 of Seth Speaks (I've worked out how to get quotes from my Kindle book!)

"There are also training centers. In these the nature of reality is explained in accordance with an individual’s ability to understand and perceive it. The familiar parables, for some, will still be used at least initially, and then these individuals will be gradually weaned away from them. In these centers there are certain classes in which instruction is given for the benefit of those who chose to return to the physical environment. They are taught, in other words, the methods that allow them to translate emotion and thought into physical actuality. There is no time lag, as there must be in the three-dimensional system, between the initiation of such thoughts and their materialization. All of this occurs more or less at one level, though you must understand that I am simplifying the issues here to some extent. For example, some individuals do not undergo any such periods, but because of development and progress during their past lives, they are ready to begin more ambitious programs. Now I have spoken of such development earlier. Some of my readers, not being perhaps aware of any psychic ability of their own, might think then that they are in for a long and protracted period of after-death training. Let me hasten to tell you that all such ability is not necessarily conscious, and that much of it takes place during the sleep state when you are simply not aware of it." (from "Seth Speaks: The Eternal Validity of the Soul (A Seth Book)" by Jane Roberts)

Start reading it for free: http://amzn.eu/6Pijlo4
« Last Edit: January 27, 2018, 09:49:09 PM by Sena »

Offline transient amnesia

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« Last Edit: March 06, 2018, 03:40:10 PM by transient amnesia »

Offline transient amnesia

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« Last Edit: March 06, 2018, 03:53:25 PM by transient amnesia »

Offline Sena

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Quote from: transient amnesia
Sena, your quote here reminds me of the movie "Astral City; A Spiritual Journey"
TA, thanks for this. I don't doubt that a number of people have that kind of experience, but what I feel is that there is probably a great variety of after-death outcomes. For some atheists who disbelieve in any kind of afterlife, there may well be complete oblivion. I personally like the idea of a "training center" which might prepare me to go to a "different Earth", i.e, an Earth which is not dying.

Offline transient amnesia

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« Last Edit: March 06, 2018, 03:40:37 PM by transient amnesia »

Offline Sena

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Quote from: Deb
What I'd also like to know more about is the afterlife experience as it relates to incarnations. I mean, with time being simultaneous then incarnations are simultaneous, so where does death fit in with this?
It seems to me that the movie "The Thirteenth Floor" can give us some insight into this.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0139809/
The basic plot is about Time Travel induced by a machine. If we forget about the machine and remind ourselves that time is simultaneous, we get some idea of how one can move from one incarnation into another, or one probable reality into another.

Offline Deb

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Quote from: transient amnesia
My question is what do you remember about this place?  Colors, sounds, people, messages ? You've mentioned this place before and haven't yet described it.

Thanks ta, I'm still adjusting to being back and playing catchup.

I didn't realize I hadn't described my experience. I have to say a few years ago I made a friend on Amazon, over my questioning her negative review of a Seth book (UR1). I ended up corresponding with the woman for a while and we Skyped once a week for a few months. (I get everything on Amazon, even friends...) She is a 'professional' psychic in California and a big Seth fan. She told me that 'we' were in classes together in F2, during our dream state. She described it as a sort of classroom, more like a high school chemistry class setup with the tall double desks. I had no memory of that at all. (BTW my chemistry lab partner in high school was Alan Nimoy, nephew of Dr. Spock.  :) Unfortunately he had cystic fibrosis and died shortly after that, but he looked just like Leonard. Even had somewhat pointy ears. But I digress...)

In my memory from the dream, I was in a large circular (maybe octagonal) and dark theater setting, with very high ceilings (like 20' or so). I was there with a lot of other people. I didn't talk with anyone. There were no chairs, we were all standing (standing room only) and facing different directions. The walls were lined with many movie screens that went up to the ceiling. The only light was from the screens, where there were movies playing of various scenarios. My understanding at the time was that they were playing out situations, maybe probabilities, and each of us in the theater would be seeing what we needed to see in order to learn or make decisions in the waking period.

That's all I remember.

Oh and thanks for the explanation about Rob's mother(s), that makes sense. So... the physical (Earth) energy from the dead mother returned to the source, but since every consciousness is unique, the consciousness that was the dead mother retains it's individuality on another level.

Quote from: Sena
It seems to me that the movie "The Thirteenth Floor" can give us some insight into this.

Wow Sena, you're always full of surprises! I will watch it tonight, thanks! I can get it on Amazon Prime Video, it has some good reviews and a high rating for a scifi-type movie.


Offline transient amnesia

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« Last Edit: March 06, 2018, 03:41:09 PM by transient amnesia »

Offline Deb

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Quote from: transient amnesia
btw... Your connection is not secure... again!

WHAT??? Tell me more about this. I changed hosting companies for the SSL.
If you get an error message, please share that with me.

PS
Eeeewwww, pink shorts!

Offline transient amnesia

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« Last Edit: March 06, 2018, 03:41:47 PM by transient amnesia »

Offline Sena

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Quote from: Deb
If you get an error message, please share that with me.
The site seems okay to me, no error messages.

Offline annh

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Quote from: transient amnesia

What I'd also like to know more about is the afterlife experience as it relates to incarnations. I mean, with time being simultaneous then incarnations are simultaneous, so where does death fit in with this?

Hi, I liked the explanation from Seth that we blink on and off in physical reality and the 'off' is likened to 'death', dreaming, alternative realities. With the quantum concept we can be in many places at once and those places emerge into  new places.

Offline Sena

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Quote from: Deb
I will watch it tonight,
Deb, the film also reminded me of the Cinderella story, the clock striking midnight and all that.

Offline transient amnesia

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« Last Edit: March 06, 2018, 03:52:08 PM by transient amnesia »

Offline Deb

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Quote from: Sena
Deb, the film also reminded me of the Cinderella story, the clock striking midnight and all that.

Wow, I didn't think about that but probably no accident. I thoroughly enjoyed the movie. Reminded me of The Sims video game, as The Matrix and Seth also do. Virtual realities within virtual realities, artificial intelligence developing self-awareness and autonomy, the Wallace and Gromit cyber-dog gone rogue. With a happy ending (I didn't expect that). And Craig Bierko is easy on the eyes. But yes, certainly hints of parallel existences and switching tracks between Seth's probable selves.

Quote from: transient amnesia
that is Deb's question that I boldened to show it was Deb's question. Oop's  But thanks

That happens on occasion, I've done it myself. When attempting to quote a quote quoted by someone else, by use of the Partial Quote link, lol. Easy enough to remedy once aware of the process. When taking a partial quote, take a look at the "Quote from:" and change it if need be.

But the blinking off and on, or here and not here, is something to consider. Along with incarnations, counterparts, probable selves, personality splinters, thought forms, projections... have I missed anything? Probably. So much to learn and explore.

It reminds me of an old James Taylor song, The Secret o' Life: "Einstein said he could never understand it all." My JT. The first time I heard his voice was about 1970, I remember the exact moment and circumstances. I saw him in concert for the first time maybe in 1975, when he was full of stage fright. Yet, it was a lovely ride.


« Last Edit: January 30, 2018, 07:29:46 PM by Deb »

Offline transient amnesia

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Offline transient amnesia

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Offline transient amnesia

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Offline voidypaul

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Hi Deb , Sena  and all just got back online after a while of no TVs or internet.
As Seth says , you go where you expect to go. All cultures have their own interpretations of what the afterlife conditions will be like + those people will meet with those conditions. There will be guides who will illuminate them on the reality of their situation + lead them in the right direction.
Unless one is finished with their reincarnations + are ready to go into the next level or plane of existence then they will go into what Seth calls a mid~plane where they learn of the abilities they have and have not used and get themselves ready for the next incarnation.
There are as has been said learning centres where one will learn of their 'previous ' incarnations and their relationship to the entity or soul and the true nature of reality.
No one automatically becomes knowledgeable and some will not accept their new situation and as has been described by Seth some even try to reincarnate before they have gained any true knowledge but they may not have a full mental genetic information and can become psychopathic because of it.  This is all described in the early sessions.  Seth also describes the veil of tears and misery that depressives and suicides will encounter because they have such a dim view of themselves and reality and further isolate themselves not accepting any advice or counsel from any guides.  This also applies to those who believe that extinction is the afterlife situation, the Buddhists call these the hungry ghosts and are apparently very difficult to convince of their continued existence. Poor delusional belief systems will definitely lead one way off the true path to liberation and moving on to a more expansive reality or the next incarnation. Hard work indeed for the guides who try to help them.
If one has some spiritual understanding of what to expect then much work can be done.    As Seth said reincarnation is probabilities in a time context and also that all probabilities of even the most minute action will be manifest in one dimension or the another, the self is truly unlimited and infinite.
This is very much like the many worlds interpretation where all possible worlds exist from any and every path one chooses to make and those which were not chosen in this reality, all exist in their own dimensions, for as Seth says, one is constantly choosing between infinite probabilities the reality one will accept as their own.
Hope this is helpful,   Peace Paul

Offline LarryH

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Quote from: transient amnesia
The theory of the Implicate Order contains an ultraholistic cosmic view; it connects everything with everything else. In principle, any individual element could reveal "detailed information about every other element in the universe." The central underlying theme of Bohm's theory is the "unbroken wholeness of the totality of existence as an undivided flowing movement without borders."

Having read Bohm some time ago and recently read quite a bit of what Seth had to say about Framework 2 in one of the Personal Sessions books, it occurs to me that Framework 2 and Bohm's Implicate Order match up nicely. It follows that Framework 1 and the Explicit Order are the other side of the coin. Framework 1/Explicit Order is the collapsed wave or that which is manifest out of the interconnected potentials of Framework 2/Implicate Order.

Offline transient amnesia

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« Last Edit: March 06, 2018, 03:39:07 PM by transient amnesia »

Offline usmaak

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I've spent most of my life struggling with beliefs.  For instance, belief in something after this, vs. one minute you're there and the next you're gone.  Completely and totally gone like you never existed.  I feel better when I'm actively reading Seth, and if I let it go for a while, I go back to my nihilistic "you're born, you live, you die" ways of thinking.

And when I am reading Seth, sometimes I get bothered by the whole "entity" thing.  As in I'm just a small part of something bigger.  I get concerned that I will wake up after and realize that this was all just some dream and that the ME that is typing this message will have just been a figment of some greater self's imagination.  If there is something after my time here, I want to still be ME.

Sorry.  Not an awesome day and my thoughts tend to spiral when that happens.  ;D

Offline Sena

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Quote from: usmaak
If there is something after my time here, I want to still be ME.
usmaak, if that is your wish, you will create that reality. We don't have to assume, with Christian theology, that the aim of life is to become some insipid "saint" who will spend eternity singing the praises of the Almighty Vengeful One.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2018, 08:33:51 PM by Sena »

Offline voidypaul

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Hi LarryH
Bohm does indeed come very close to a Sethian philosophy. One of the few scientists who include consciousness in their theory.
His idea of the implicate order which is governed by a being that he calls the subtle nonmanifest can be likened to Seths ATI, as he describes it as an active intelligence , he also calls it the sacred and holy.  This is heretical thinking in scientific circles and I think he should be applauded for his contribution to the field of science which generally believes that determinism is the only answer even though quantum mechanics describes such phenomena as non locality , entanglement ,probabilities and even the quantum eraser findings which indicate that a decision in the future can affect a decision or measurement made in the past .Most scientists unfortunately don't like to rock the boat for fear of losing credibility or tenure etc. Stuck in the mud of their own limitations. Same goes for the church which decided that evolution was a good idea, what morons.
Everything in Bohms explicate order is connected holographically to each other explicate manifestation and also to the implicate or non manifest from which it arises.
For me this is an absolutely astonishing theory to have arisen from scientific circles and I would say that Bohm is indeed a very spiritual personality but because of the advent of collapse of the wave function and wave particle duality it is for spiritually aware people a natural progression .
Seth obviously is much more progressive than Bohm and describes all the levels of being from ATI through to each manifest atom or molecule or human or consciousness of any order .
Obviously Hugh Everetts theory of the many worlds interpretation of quantum physics is also compatible with Seths philosophy of probabilities but he kept it quite simple in stating that everything that can happen does happen and branches off into a separate individual and unique reality or world.
There are many more competing theories of the multiverse nowadays and they all have some good ideas but generally they don't include consciousness in the mix which is quite sad really but they don't believe that atoms have consciousness so that just about sums up their absolute ignorance of any other form of consciousness.
As Seth has said , even the electrons that are being observed in scientific circles are aware of themselves and of the other electrons that make up the tools they use and are in the bodies they inhabit and which they have on an unconscious level ,created themselves , if only they knew haha.
Unfortunately as far as a complete philosophy, Seth outstrips all and every scientific theory that I have come into contact with but it will only be the next Christ/Paul figurehead who will be able to demonstrate Seths philosophy in real life and in practical terms that most spiritual people will understand.
Peace, Paul

Offline Deb

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Quote from: transient amnesia
Or I may simply be a single drop of rain
But I will remain
And I'll be back again, and again and again and again and again...

That was a surprise for me. Not being a country fan, I'd not paid any attention to this 'supergroup' and had not heard the song before. What an unlikely source embracing reincarnation!

Quote from: LarryH
it occurs to me that Framework 2 and Bohm's Implicate Order match up nicely. It follows that Framework 1 and the Explicit Order are the other side of the coin. Framework 1/Explicit Order is the collapsed wave or that which is manifest out of the interconnected potentials of Framework 2/Implicate Order.

Brilliant! I'd heard Bohm's theories tossed around but had not really looked into him very deeply. He paid a price for his forward thinking in that like anyone else proposing ideas that are new and open-minded, he was ridiculed and rejected by the rest of the community.

Paul, welcome back! Your explanation of what happens after death was a nice encapsulation of Seth's explanation. Details can be found in Chapter 9 of Seth Speaks. My next death experience, whenever that will be, may be my first one where I have a better understanding of the process before hand. While I'm not ready to leave F1 any time soon, there's a part of me that's looking forward to the experience.


Offline voidypaul

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Hi usmaak,
I hope you are well.
You will always be the you that you are now, death doesn't change your personality. In the afterlife you will become more of what you are and not less , you will in fact have more abilities than you have now as they are necessarily limited by birth in the physical field and further restricted by the limited concepts that religion and science has to offer about our origins etc.
Seth has said that no consciousness or personality is overlooked but given more opportunity to become more of who and what they are and not less, to learn of your past incarnations and of your true relationship to the soul or entity of which you are a part. You may find that some past life relationships are as important to you if not more so than your present relationships, you will directly create the reality in which you dwell (similar to the dreaming reality) but there will also be guides and friends who have gone before you to offer assistance and advice etc.
I really liked Debs last post in which she says that she looks forward to her next afterlife experience as of course she should because she is a lovely personality and the education she gives herself in reading and understanding Seths unparalleled philosophy will give her the tools to create a beautiful experience and also to avoid some of the pitfalls that some will unfortunately fall into like the sad depressives and suicides or those who refuse to believe that they will survive etc etc.
All consciousness of whatever degree is valued and loved by ATI and the entity, no consciousness is lost or overlooked but given more opportunity to become more of what they are.
It is true that we are infinitesimally small portions of ATI and the entity but as Seth has said, there is no up or down to consciousness, no portion that is not held as equal to all other portions of consciousness and that are given the gifts of unique individuality and eternity in which to explore the dimensions of their own being.
Seth is the best, his philosophy will teach you all there is to know about life and death and reality as a whole, stick with it and you learn to set yourself free.
Peace, Paul
« Last Edit: February 01, 2018, 03:43:53 AM by voidypaul »

Offline Deb

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Quote from: voidypaul
You will always be the you that you are now, death doesn't change your personality. In the afterlife you will become more of what you are and not less , you will in fact have more abilities than you have now as they are necessarily limited by birth in the physical field and further restricted by the limited concepts that religion and science has to offer about our origins etc.
Seth has said that no consciousness or personality is overlooked but given more opportunity to become more of who and what they are and not less, to learn of your past incarnations and of your true relationship to the soul or entity of which you are a part. You may find that some past life relationships are as important to you if not more so than your present relationships, you will directly create the reality in which you dwell (similar to the dreaming reality) but there will also be guides and friends who have gone before you to offer assistance and advice etc.

I find that both exciting and comforting. There are times when I really feel 'more of what I am' (when I'm not distracted by and focused on the daily grind) and that's a great feeling.

I agree Seth is best. He's my cornerstone.

Offline usmaak

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I had this dream once.  It was many years ago, but I still remember it.  It was the end of the world and I was in a room with a bunch of people when it happened.  One minute I was in this room waiting for the end and the next minute...  well the end came and I was still conscious.  I don't remember much about it.

I like to think that it is like that.  No real lapse in awareness and consciousness.

Offline voidypaul

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Yep it's pretty much as you imagine it.
It is of course dependent upon your belief system.
There is usually a moment or two when one lets go of physical reality before orientation to their afterlife situation and as Seth says, many people cling to the past before completely letting go.
It's a personal thing, it's about your beliefs .
Seth speaks has a lot of information on the subject.
Peace , Paul

Offline Sena

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Quote from: voidypaul
You will always be the you that you are now, death doesn't change your personality. In the afterlife you will become more of what you are and not less , you will in fact have more abilities than you have now as they are necessarily limited by birth in the physical field and further restricted by the limited concepts that religion and science has to offer about our origins etc.
Paul, welcome back to the forum. What Seth says is that the individuality of a human being is the same as the individuality of a subatomic particle such as an electron:

• "So some Americans have become tired of this badge of individuality, and they are ready to throw it over, either to fundamental Christianity, which is again rising, or to a number of various Eastern religions. Life is everywhere both individual and particular, and at the same time united with all being. All That Is “pulsates” with a truly infinite yearning to particularize all of its attributes, to know itself through individualizing all of its dreams, its slightest thought, its most monumental discovery. All That Is composes the fabric of the universe—which is everywhere unified, since nothing exists outside of it, and every wave or particle, or field or whatever within it, consists of a divine psychological fabric that is populated by individuation, sensation, meaning, intent, in which the most innocuous shadow of an electron rises up joyfully and shouts “I am I, and not you.”"

—TPS5 Deleted Session September 20, 1978

Seth also implies that the personality I think I know may not be my real personality if I don't have an adequate understanding of my inner self:

"Each individual is a universe in a small package. (A one-minute pause.) As the physical planets move in order while being individual, so there can be a social order that is based upon the integrity of the individual. But that order would recognize the inner validity that is within the self; and the inner order, unseen, that forms the integrity of the physical body, likewise would form the integrity of the social body. The self, the individual, being its fulfilled self, would automatically function for the good of itself and for the good of society. The individual’s good, therefore, is the society’s good, and represents spiritual and physical fulfillment. This presupposes, however, an understanding of the inner self and an exploration into the unknown reality of the individual psyche."
—The Unknown Reality Volume 1 Section 3: Session 704 June 17, 1974

My understanding is that it is my consciousness rather than my personality which is preserved after death:

• "In this respect, you see, there is a personal god, if those are the words you use. There is a portion of All That Is, that is directed and focused upon every individual consciousness. A portion of All That Is resides within and is a part of every consciousness. Every consciousness is therefore cherished and protected individually. There are automatic electromagnetic connections that exist here."

• "Consciousness, seeking to know itself, therefore knows you. You as a consciousness, seek to know yourself, and to some extent or other, you become aware of your self as a distinct and individual portion of All That Is. You not only draw upon this overall energy, but you do so automatically, for your existence is dependent upon it."

—The Early Sessions Book 7 Session 311 January 11,1967
« Last Edit: February 07, 2018, 09:03:22 PM by Sena »

Offline Deb

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I liked the analogy of the universe -- we are a universe, we are only aware of a small portion of ourselves from our current perspective.

Quote from: Sena
My understanding is that it is my consciousness rather than my personality which is preserved after death:

I think maybe a lot of us are concerned with losing the personality (would that be part of the ego?)--the part of us that we think we are--because it's hard for us to conceive what pure consciousness is at this point. We've become so familiar with the personality that we see as us. Yet, in F2 we will remember this personality ("Frank Watts was a fat head," lol) the way we remember ourselves during different stages of our current lives. We have also become very accustomed to our present physical bodies. But, as NDErs say, once out they miss their bodies about as much as anyone would miss their first car (if it was a good car :) ). Probably the same case with the personality.

Quote from: voidypaul
In the afterlife you will become more of what you are and not less

All of the things blocked from our memories right now, 'past' lives, all the experiences we've had, knowledge, will be returned to us.

I was listening to a Mike Dooley book today, he had a clever explanation of our near-sightedness. He compared us to a goldfish in a fish bowl. No way to see the rest of reality from that finite perspective.

« Last Edit: February 08, 2018, 05:13:57 PM by Deb »

Offline Sena

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Quote from: Deb
Yet, in F2 we will remember this personality ("Frank Watts was a fat head," lol) the way we remember ourselves during different stages of our current lives.
Deb, that's an excellent example. There is a big difference between remembering one's personality and being that personality.

Offline Deb

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Quote from: Deb
I think maybe a lot of us are concerned with losing the personality

From an unpublished ESP Class, Nov. 29, 1975;

"Now, I am not a shrinking violet! My ego has not been annihilated through two thousand deaths! Whenever you think you slay your ego, another one emerges triumphant.

"There is one reason that the tapes work. (Note: There had been discussion about tapes from earlier classes that have been reproduced and sold and/or distributed by persons unknown.) There is one reason that people listen to the tapes. The reason is this. An individual speaks! Not a bland non-entity; not a spiritual head; not a bundle of goodies; but a person, as you know people.

"I have lived as you live. I speak of the survival of the personality - personality - distinctness! Not annihilated in the blindness of a Nirvanna; not squashed in a benevolent god-head, but the essence of what I am survives; and is, and continues, and grows, as your essence survives and continues and grows. It is not lost in the blinding corridors of some god-hood's brain.

"God, in those terms, so loved individuals that he individualizes himself - or, to any - any - any femenists [sic] around, she individualizes herself!

"Your identity continues, as mine continues. I make no attempt to hide my characteristics. They were not buried before the time of Christ. They were not destroyed in my death in the seventh century. They were not annihilated in the 24th century of your existence and in your reckoning of time. They were not destroyed in any of my deaths, nor shall your identities be annihilated, or lost in a oneness that knows not desire, nor distinction, - and that is a strong part of my message!

"Your own creativity continues. You will change, as you have indeed changed, in your terms, in the past - as I have joyfully changed as hopefully my ignorance opens into some slight doors of wisdom."

The entire session can be found here: Unpublished ESP class, 11.29.75 "An Un-class Session"


« Last Edit: February 24, 2018, 02:46:29 PM by Deb »

Offline chasman

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wow!
so grateful for this post Deb!!!
thank you more than I could possibly say in words.
Charlie

Offline Sena

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Quote from: Deb
but the essence of what I am survives; and is, and continues, and grows, as your essence survives and continues and grows.
"You will change, as you have indeed changed, in your terms, in the past - as I have joyfully changed as hopefully my ignorance opens into some slight doors of wisdom."
Thanks for this, Deb, it is very clear.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2018, 10:36:56 PM by Sena »

Offline Sena

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Quote from: Deb
"I have lived as you live. I speak of the survival of the personality - personality - distinctness! Not annihilated in the blindness of a Nirvanna; not squashed in a benevolent god-head, but the essence of what I am survives; and is, and continues, and grows, as your essence survives and continues and grows. It is not lost in the blinding corridors of some god-hood's brain.

I have recently gone back to Seth Speaks to see what Seth had to say on the immortality of the soul. In fact, the sub-heading of Seth Speaks is “The Eternal Validity of the Soul”. I now think that this is one of the most important of Seth's teachings, and he gives a quite different view to what is in Roman Catholic theology, with which Jane would have been familiar. What the RC Church wants to do is to frighten people by teaching that those who do not follow their commandments will suffer for all eternity in the hell that Jesus (God) created.

“Jesus often speaks of "Gehenna" of "the unquenchable fire" reserved for those who to the end of their lives refuse to believe and be converted, where both soul and body can be lost. Jesus solemnly proclaims that he "will send his angels, and they will gather . . . all evil doers, and throw them into the furnace of fire," and that he will pronounce the condemnation: "Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire!"”

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p123a12.htm

Seth's view of the soul is quite different:

“Many individuals imagine the soul to be an immortalized ego, forgetting that the ego as you know it is only a small portion of the self; so this section of the personality is simply projected onward, ad infinitum, so to speak. Because the dimensions of your reality are so little understood, your concepts are bound to be limited. In considering “immortality,” mankind seems to hope for further egotistical development, and yet he objects to the idea that such development might involve change. He says through his religions that he has a soul indeed, without even asking what a soul is, and often he seems to regard it, again, as an object in his possession.”

“Your soul therefore — the soul that you are — the soul that you are part of — that soul is a far more creative and miraculous phenomenon than you previously supposed. And when this is not clearly understood, and when the concept is watered down for simplicity’s sake, as mentioned earlier, then the intense vitality of the soul can never be understood. Your soul, therefore, possesses the wisdom, information, and knowledge that is part of the experience of all these other personalities; and you have within yourselves access to this information, but only if you realize the true nature of your reality. Let me emphasize again that these personalities exist independently within and are a part of the soul, and each of them are free to create and develop. There is however an inner communication, and the knowledge of one is available to any — not after physical death, but now in your present moment. Now the soul itself, as mentioned earlier, is not static. It grows and develops even through the experience of those personalities that compose it, and it is, to put it as simply as possible, more than the sum of its parts. Now, there are no closed systems in reality. In your physical system the nature of your perceptions limits your idea of reality to some extent, because you purposely decide to focus within a given “locale.” But basically speaking, consciousness can never be a closed system, and all barriers of such a nature are illusion.” (from "Seth Speaks: The Eternal Validity of the Soul (A Seth Book)" by Jane Roberts)

From the Kindle edition:  http://amzn.eu/3VSypnd

My understanding of Seth's teaching is that my ego (personality) has made a number of mistakes in this life, but these mistakes can be corrected by getting in touch with the soul that I am a part of, “ that soul is a far more creative and miraculous phenomenon than you previously supposed”.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2018, 09:55:26 PM by Sena »

Offline Daniel V.

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Think of a stage with a play and the characters in it.

Not only Seth but the writings of others seem to say that what we refer to as 'relatives', 'friends', 'companions', and so on, are the roles the actors are playing.

When the play is over, the actors return to their real selves.

A personal example:

Last month my aunt passed away at a hospital. She was 92 years of age so by many standards she lived a long life. She had an infection but the doctors had informed me and my sister that they were hopeful what with antibiotics and such. When I visited her at the hospital the last time - though  I did not think /then/ it would be the last time - we were talking and she said something to me: "I'm going to miss you".

I paused for a moment and then as some kind of reflex I tried moving the conversation toward a more upbeat sense by telling her that things are going to turn out well, etc. But during my time with her she kept on saying that she was tired. The visit only lasted an hour as I could see it was best to let her sleep.

A few years ago she had been in the hospital for a serious infection. It was so serious that she went into a coma. More than a week passed by and she wouldn't awake. My sister and I resigned ourselves to what seemed inevitable and I remember one day I was sitting there by my aunt's bedside holding her hand while the priest was standing next to me doing the last rites.

Two days later my aunt awoke from the coma. A miracle in anyone's book and especially at her age. My sister and I were more than thankful that she recovered. For us, our aunt had become the second "mother" since our mother, my aunt's sister, had passed away in 2003.

When our aunt died, she was the last of that family we had grown up with for so many years since we were infants. Now all of them are gone. What remains are treasured memories, feelings, and photographs.

Yet, if Seth and other writers are to be regarded, what I mourn the loss of is the "role" that the "actress" who portrayed my aunt, "played". That actress continues to be alive, on a different stage, in a different play, as a different character, somewhere. And I guess, though I don't know how, she may miss me.

Who then do I mourn? If the actress continues to live, then I only mourn the 'end' of the role she played. I mourn the "camouflage". Does that make it any easier? No. But it is a consideration that makes one think.

If the spirit and consciousness of my aunt and the others in the family who have passed away continue to live then my joy overflows. Yet, here where I remain in this time, space and dimension, the role I play mourns and I do not stop its portrayal. It must continue its course until its resolve, and I must continue to the end of the play.

My sister and I like to think that somewhere there is a family reunion where the real selves that played the roles of that family are celebrating. And when the end of my play comes, I hope to enjoy that happy gathering. And needless to say, it'll be interesting to know the real selves who played those beloved characters.

Daniel 

Offline Deb

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Sena, thanks for your post. I just re-read Seth Speaks last week, the audio version this time, and appreciated it more than the first time. His taking the time to explain what's involved with being a speaker or guide was enlightening, a lot of thought and care went into that. What sticks in my mind about "death" is that he said something like we are not simply absorbed back into the entity, losing our identity. (Can't find the quote at the moment.)

Here's a disorderly collage of what Seth said happens after death from Seth Speaks. These are only a few quotes, there is so much more in the book:

• There is a great sense of humility, and yet a great sense of exaltation as the inner self senses its freedom when death occurs.

• You may or may not realize immediately that you are dead in physical terms.

• My environment, now, is not the one in which you will find yourself immediately after death. I cannot help speaking humorously, but you must die many times before you enter this particular plane of existence.

• Now: Let me make it clear once again: Your present personality as you think of it is indeed “indelible,” and continues after death to grow and develop.

You will find yourself in another form, an image that will appear physical to you to a large degree, as long as you do not try to manipulate within the physical system with it. [Jane spoke of having a sort of form during most of her OBE experiences.]

You will simply be learning to operate in a new environment in which different laws apply, and the laws are far less limiting than the physical ones with which you now operate. In other words, you must learn to understand and use new freedoms. Even these experiences will vary, however, and even this state is a state of becoming, for many will continue into other physical lives. Some will exist and develop their abilities in different systems of reality altogether, and so for a time will remain in this "intermediary" state.

• Not only must you use your abilities after death, however, but you must face up to yourself for those that you did not use during your previous existence.

• Now, you may or may not be greeted by friends or relatives immediately following death... Your true feeling toward relatives who are also dead will be known to you and to them. There is no hypocrisy. You do not pretend to love a parent who did little to earn your respect or love. Telepathy operates without distortion in this after-death period, so you must deal with the true relationships that exist between yourself and all relatives and friends who await you. You may find that someone you considered merely an enemy actually deserved your love and respect, for example, and you will then treat him accordingly. Your own motives will be crystal clear.

You will not be automatically wise if you were not so before, but neither will there be a way to hide from your own feelings, emotions, or motives. Whether or not you accept inferior motives in yourself or learn from them is still up to you. The opportunities for growth and development are very rich, however, and the learning methods at your disposal very effective.

You examine the fabric of the existence you have left, and you learn to understand how your experiences were the result of your own thoughts and emotions and how these affected others. Until this examination is through, you are not yet aware of the larger portions of your own identity. When you realize the significance and meaning of the life you have just left, then you are ready for conscious knowledge of your other existences. [Seth spoke of how he "saw" at the sessions, he said he could see each attending individual, but also could see all of their other incarnations and probable selves. This may be in NoPR.]

• You become aware, then, of an expanded awareness. What you are begins to include what you have been in other lives, and you begin to make plans for your next physical existence, if you decide upon one. You can instead enter another level of reality, and then return to a physical existence if you choose.

So to me it seems like after death, we are still ourselves but are improved versions of what we are now, having more abilities, understanding and knowledge than we have in this existence.

I think whatever mistakes we feel we made in this life are examined in that "holding tank" we are in between incarnations, where we have time to review what we did in a particular existence, relive/revisit it in a sense if we want to, and set goals for the next incarnation to set things right—such as Seth talked about Paul/Saul returning again because he went off course during his last stay here. I also wonder if some of our "mistakes" are not mistakes at all, but part of the course we had set up for ourselves in order to help others on their learning path. Pre-planned dramas.

And Daniel, yes, I also feel the stage play and characters are a great analogy to explain the existence we're living here. But I also feel that unlike plays or TV shows, there is much more depth and purpose to this existence. I feel you miss the unique consciousness that is your aunt, because when we truly love someone it is their heart/soul/inner self that we really love. We miss those who have "died" even though there is no real separation, because we are so focused in this plane of existence that we only feel their absence. We also retain our experiences from these lives when we "die." So, I guess I can say they are real and have purpose. (Not that you were saying otherwise, I was just going off on a tangent.)

I like the family reunion idea and I don't doubt that it's a real thing. I mean, if we get together with other souls to plan out our next incarnations and what roles we are going to play, then no doubt we get together afterwards and talk about how we all did. Makes sense to me. So... there is probably life-review on both an individual and mass level.

I'm truly sorry for your loss. Even being so familiar with Seth and "knowing" we are eternal doesn't help us miss a loved one any less.

Quote from: Daniel V.
And when the end of my play comes, I hope to enjoy that happy gathering. And needless to say, it'll be interesting to know the real selves who played those beloved characters.

I can imagine the intense joy in such a reunion!


Offline Sena

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Quote from: Deb
I also wonder if some of our "mistakes" are not mistakes at all, but part of the course we had set up for ourselves in order to help others on their learning path. Pre-planned dramas.
Deb, yes that is a possibility. The good thing about Seth is that he gives us a broader context in which to see our present life.

 

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