Author Topic: Probable Selves, Dreams and You  (Read 166 times)

Offline T.M.

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I'm just wondering aloud :)

You know how in dreams you are familiar with the characters and places in the dream, yet in your real life, there's no connection at all.  Are those bleed throughs from probable selves?

Speaking of which, I think I'm aware of a few. I also became aware of them in dreams. Some are very close, look the same as me, same age, but live in places I never have, on the same continent. We share a very similar interest in nature, as well.
I'm also aware of a near opposite version. I'm female, he's a male. He's rich through entrepreneurship and hard work, of which he's very proud of, considering the environment he is in. I'm not rich or successful in regards to that, though I have tried my hand at a few entrepreneurship businesses.
I'm Caucasian, he's Asian. It seemed to me,  he was wondering about probable selves, or was aware we were somehow connected.
Also possibly a Japanese male, in the military. I was aware that was me, then I woke up and thought, no that's not me, lol.
The probable versions I picked up on are in this current time period, not years in the past, or future.

Just curious what others think. Also if anyone else is aware of their probable selves.
What's got me curious are the type of dreams where you know the people and locations when you are dreaming, yet those people connected with those locations, have no correspondences with your waking life.

Offline jbseth

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Hi T.M.

What a great and fun topic.   :)

I'll reply on this a little later as I'm got some other things I need to do right now.

jbseth


Offline T.M.

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Hi Jbseth,

I'm looking forward to responses :)

Offline Deb

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This is going to be a fun one, because I have some things to share but don't have time right now. But the first thing I thought of was -- counterparts.

There's a definition here: https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?topic=1294.0
and an old a topic here: https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?topic=1043.0

The concept is also talked about in Michael Newton's "Journey of Souls."

I'm looking forward to exploring this! Apparently a lot goes on while we are "sleeping."

Offline T.M.

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Hi Deb,

I think this can be fun too :)
I do have a very rich dream life, lol.

Offline jbseth

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Hi T.M., Hi All,

Here is some interesting information from Seth and Jane on dreams. I think some of this information may answer some questions about dreams and some of it may give us some good ideas to think about, in regards to dreams.


“Seth Speaks”, Chapter 12, Session 551, (In this section of the book, Seth is talking about reincarnational relationships.)

“Very close friends from past lives, who are in a position to do so, often communicate with you when you are in the dream state, and the relationships are continued though you do not realize it consciously.”


“Seth Speaks”, Chapter 16, Session 566, (In this section of the book, Seth is talking about probable future events.)

“Because there are bleed-throughs and interconnections, it is possible for you to tune into a “future event,” say of an unfortunate nature, an event for which you are headed if you continue on your present course. A dream about it, for instance, may so frighten you that you avoid the event and do not experience it. If so, such a dream is a message from a probable self who did experience the event.”


“Seth Speaks”, Chapter 12, Session 551, (In this section of the book, Seth is talking about other existences that we participate in, such as other reincarnational lives.)

“Now: These other existences of yours go on quite merrily whether you are waking or sleeping, but while you are awake ordinarily you block them out. In the dream state you are much more aware of them, although there is a final process of dreaming that often masks intense psychological or psychic experience, and unfortunately what you usually recall is this final dream version.”

“In this final version the basic experience is converted as nearly as possible into physical terms. It is therefore distorted. This final touching-up process is not done by deeper layers of the self however, but is much more nearly a conscious process than you realize.”

 


I also found some interesting dream information in the book, “Dreams and Projections of Consciousness”, Chapter 12. Some of this information is useful for anyone wanting to study their dreams.  Rather than write this all out here, I’m just going to paraphrase it for simplicity.


Jane said that Seth told her to leave room in their dream records to note locations and advised Jane and Rob to examine them carefully. Then Jane suggested that anyone studying their dreams look for the following when you examine your dreams:

Locations that represent places familiar to you in your present daily life.
Locations that represent places that you have never been (foreign countries).
Locations that represent definite places that appeared in your past (as it was).
Locations that represent places that no longer exist.
Locations that are strange or completely unfamiliar.
Locations that are indistinct
Locations that are strange to which you keep returning.


In one study, Jane examined 800 dream locations.

Only 70 of these 800 dreams took place in her own hometown (to Jane’s surprise).

As a rule the action in these 70 dreams involved the present, not the past.

The bulk of her dream locations were either unfamiliar or indistinct.

Only 7 dreams occurred abroad.

Most precognitive dreams occurred in locations that were unfamiliar to her at the time of the dream; because of this, Jane suggests that people pay particular attention to unfamiliar dream locations.

In addition to this, here’s an important quote from Jane.

“As we discovered later, it is the effort required to remember dreams, and the resulting stretching of consciousness that finally opens up dream reality.”





Furthermore, in Chapter 12 of the book, “Dreams and Projections of Consciousness”, Seth proposed that Rob and Jane perform a dream study. In response to this proposal, Rob asked Seth, what is the purpose of this study? In response this question, Seth said the following (which is also paraphrased here)

This is a study of the characteristics of the dream world.  We shall regard it in relation to physical reality using comparisons and dissimilarities.

In the relationship between the waking and sleeping personality, we’ll discover the many ways in which the personality’s aims and goals are not only reflected but sometimes achieved in and through the dream condition.

Instead of considering those aspects of consciousness which are present in the physical environment and absent in the dream environment, here we shall consider those aspects of consciousness which are present in the dream environment and absent in the physical environment.

We will also deal with the nature of space, time and distance, as they appear in the dream.

jbseth

Offline T.M.

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Hi Jbseth,

Thank you for the information!  Now that I think of it, what all my dreams had in common that got my attention, when I thought upon them, was the unfamiliar locations.

Offline Deb

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Great information Jbseth!

I find dreams fascinating. I've had some precognitive ones, contact with dead friends and family, lucid dreams, some repeating themes (lots of dreams about elevators or trying to find my way through places with various obstacles). The majority of my dreams take place in unfamiliar settings with people I don't know. Even when I'm "home" in a dream it's not the home I live in. Weird.

T.M. it's entirely possible you have been meeting with other incarnations. But when you mentioned that the probable selves you've picked up on are in the current time period and not in the past or future (although there's that simultaneous time thing again), it made me think of counterparts. So we have probable selves, incarnations and counterparts (but wait, there's more...). But with counterparts, they are two (or maybe more?) incarnations of the same entity within a same time period. They can be different genders, races, living in different parts of the world, ages don't have to be exactly the same.

I've tried to keep a dream journal, but got tired of doing it because the majority of my dreams are really boring. I even dream about house cleaning. Or sleeping. But I imagine it could be really useful. Jane used to write in her journal every time she woke up during the night!

Quote from: Jane
“As we discovered later, it is the effort required to remember dreams, and the resulting stretching of consciousness that finally opens up dream reality.”

That's important. At least to me.

I'm adding the excerpt from Journey of Souls where Dr. Newton is talking with a hypnotized American male patient who is unaware of his counterpart during regular consciousness, but knows about her under hypnosis. Newton calls it soulsplitting. He also uses the term oversoul, but not in this excerpt. I'll stick it in a spoiler because it's long. Just click the + if you want to read it.

Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.

Offline T.M.

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Hi Deb,

Sounds like you have a interesting dream life going on too!

There's only 1 potential reincarnational self, if that's what it is, that has come to my attention, years ago, in a series of dreams, and a strange set of books I came across in a 2nd hand store. Finding the books, a small 4 volume set, preceded roughly 5 nights long set of dreams about the situation.

After the dreams, I looked in one of the books and found pictures.
The dream was about a person on the U.S.S. Cyclops, a ship that disappeared in the Bermuda triangle in 1918.
I still wonder about that one. The picture in the book was of the Cyclops, the ship I was on in my dreams.
I still wonder if that was me or if I just somehow psychicaly picked up on an individual. Though I can't for the life of me figure out why the books would have come my way.  I did have the impression it was me in the dreams.
The person in the dreams was actively plotting a mutiny against the Cpt, if he didn't make a certain stop, at a particular island, or place. In this life I've had numerous problems with my rebellious nature.  I love swimming and water in general, the idea of sailing in the ocean terrifies me to the core.
These experiences were before I read Seth, and I had no real framework of beliefs to try to understand them with.

That's as close as I have ever come to a distinct feeling of a past life. The Japanese military guy might be a future life, from my feelings at the time of the dream. The others were definitely concurrent lives.

I'm trying to read and understand Seth's concepts of all this. So I'm not sure if they would be called probable, or counterparts.
I'm trying to understand his concepts on the nature of time too.

I've made various attempts at a dream diary, alas I get tired of trying to write them down and they fall by the wayside.

Thank you for the Dr Newton excerpt also, I like him :)

Offline jbseth

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Hi T.M.,

I agree with Deb. I think your Asian male and your Japanese military male are probably counterparts.

Like you, I’ve also had some dreams where, the person who was me in the dream, definitely did not look like me in this physical reality.  And yet, I knew it was me.

Dreams are very interesting. In one, my wife and I were both in the dream and yet, neither one of us looked anything like we do here. The timeframe in this dream was also about the same time as here, now, the present time, and not past or future time. Because of this, I don’t think this was some reincarnational relationship between my wife and me.

I’ve had very close to the same dream, on 2 separate occasions, maybe 5 years apart. In both instances, I’m driving a sports car, on a road out to a lighthouse type of structure at the end of a road at the beach. I’m with a woman I don’t know in this reality and it’s a beautiful day. I’ve never seen this place anywhere but in this dream and so I’m not really sure that it exists anywhere here on earth.

I’ve had a lot of interesting flying dreams. In one of these, I was holding my wife's hand and we were flying around a cruise ship looking at the people on the ship. The funny thing is, neither one of us were visible to each other or anyone else. Even so, somehow I knew she was there with me, and we were holding hands flying around this ship. I’ll also say that this was one of the most enjoyable experiences I’ve ever had, either in dream reality or this reality. 

One of the most bizarre dream / experiences I’ve ever had has to do with the fact that when I was growing up, one several occasions, I sensed that I would not live much longer than about 35 years. When you are 12 years old, that seems like a long time into the future.  As I grew older, I wondered about this on occasion, but I never worried about it.

Then, when I was 35, I had a dream one night that I was doing something and suddenly I had a heart attack. This really startled me and it woke me up. After I woke up, and got my bearings about me, I noticed that my wife, who was sleeping next to me, was crying. I didn’t know whether she was dreaming or awake and so I shook her and asked her what was wrong.  She told me that she was really upset because she just had a dream that I had died.  Whoa. I’m not sure that either one of us ever got back to sleep that night.

I have often wondered whether a probable me actually died that night and somehow I managed to transfer over to another me who continued on with this life.

jbseth

Offline T.M.

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Hi Jbseth,

I was reading about Seth telling Joseph about his counterparts. How one died in the war, another died at 12 as a boy. I think there were a few others as well. It got me inspired to try to figure this out! I found on another thread a pdf link posted by Sena, it's Seth explaining time. He says in there that if one wants to understand existence, one needs to understand time.
I admit Seth's concepts on time, reincarnation, counterparts, probable selves, I find somewhat baffling, lol.

I used to astral travel - fly, when I was very young. I loved it, and miss it very much!  About the same time I started doing that, I was sure beyond a shadow of a doubt that we have all lived before. My family didn't really get into such things, there's no way I could have picked it up from them.

Something like your heart attack dreams would really have me wondering just what the heck is going on!
I'm glad they didn't turn out to be true!

That's kind of another interest of mine, changing timelines. There's some interesting vids on YouTube about people doing things like that, they call it Quantum Jumping. Maybe there really is such a thing!  :)

Offline jbseth

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Hi T.M.

Wow. Astral Travel, that must have been awesome.

In my flying dreams, my dream self who has this experience feels beyond spectacular, whenever I have this experience; I can only imagine what Astral Travelling must feel like.  :)

I know some people have written about OOBE's (Out Of Body Experiences); Robert Monroe, comes to mind. Jane Roberts had some too.

When you had your Astral Travel adventures, what was that like, if you don't mind me asking?

Did you travel in this reality, like around in your house; did you ever see yourself while you were doing this, could you go through walls?

jbseth

Offline T.M.

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Hi Jbseth,

I think all flying dreams are astral travel. You are astral traveling :)

I remember having dreams where I was specifically being taught how to fly.  Around age 4-5. That went on for about a month. Then I would fly across the country. The land below looked just like it does when flying in an airplane. My first airline flight I was very struck by the similarities.
I remember crossing lots of farm land, and had the impression I was going to London. At the time I lived in Washington state.
I have no idea why London, as it holds no appeal to me at all. Then or now.
I've never seen myself. The early dreams were mostly earth bound. They always felt fantastic :)
I would say probably upper atmosphere. I do remember that was part of the early training, how to get from ground level to higher above.

Later in teen years, and quite awhile before I read Seth, or reading any occult type literature, I knew I was helping people cross over during death. The farthest I ever got once, and quite spontaneously, darn near Mars. Then I snapped back into my body.
I have no great interest in Mars either.

From about 20 on, I'm 55 now, my flying dreams are pretty murky, and I have a hard time recalling exactly what's going on, only usually recalling glimpses. I'm doing something though, I would go so far to say some kind of work.
The late teens I spontaneously started lucid dreaming. But it shut down shortly after it started. Sometimes now I become aware in a dream, but can't hold the focus. I'm not sure if I ever have had an oboe, as in consciously willing myself out of the body.

I don't go through walls. When I become aware I'm usually flying at a pretty good clip. Then things get murky again.

« Last Edit: August 07, 2018, 07:52:07 PM by T.M. »

Offline jbseth

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Hi T.M.

Thanks for your reply. My confusion was with the word "astral travel".  I've heard people use this term for many different things. In regards to this, I thought you meant that you have had OOBE's.

For most of my flying dreams, in the dream, I typically don't know exactly how it is that I came to be able to fly. In some of my more recent flying dreams, I just jumped up and took off. That was fun.

In another more recent flying dream, maybe 5 years ago or so, I started to fly and was telling people all they had to do was jump up and they could do this too. In this dream, as I was flying, the looks on the faces of the people who saw me flying was absolute total fear. It felt like these people were looking at someone who they believed was an extremely dangerous evil sorcerer.  This had a pretty big impact on me as I thought about it, after I woke up. If you suddenly could fly, what would people really think about you and that.

 

In one dream I had many years ago, I was flying maybe 5,000 feet above a forest somewhere in Germany. I was doing fine until I realized that I didn't exactly know how I was controlling my flight. Once this occurred, I got scared and I tumbled and fell out of the sky.

I think that maybe this was the lesson that was being given to me by the dream. Just trust yourself and  everything will be fine. Once you get scared and start trying to control things that you don't understand, that can cause you to fall.


I often think about the symbolism in my dreams to see if there is a message there for me. Many times, not always, but many times, I find that there seems to be a message behind the dream.



I think its interesting that you knew you were helping people cross over, after death. I've never had that type of experience but somewhere I seem to recall Seth saying that Jane did this also.


I've only had a few lucid dreams, and when I have, I've always only become lucid, somewhere in the middle of the dream. They are very interesting though.

More recently, I've noticed that I sometimes have what I'll call bleed-through dreams.  In these bleed through dreams, something in this physical world reality seems to bleed through into the dream world. For example, in a dream, I may plan to go swimming at the local pool. In this dream, when I go to the pool, I go to the Hillsboro Aquatic Center, because here in this physical reality whenever I go to the pool to go swimming, I always go to the Hillsboro Aquatic Center.   All the while, other things in the same dream don't appear to necessarily follow along with my physical world reality.

jbseth




Offline T.M.

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Hi Jbseth,

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In some of my more recent flying dreams, I just jumped up and took off.
That's good!! It took me awhile to figure out how to do that, in the early years, when I received training. At first I was jumping off enormously tall buildings. I learned to catch and ride a current. I guess an energy current, I always just thought of it as the wind. It was fun! I just more or less imagined, I was a bird, or at least, knew their secrets :)
Finally I was able to jump up from the ground and get going, took awhile though.

The term oobe, threw me off. I thought it meant leaving the body at will. Then I got to thinking, I think it's the same thing.

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as I was flying, the looks on the faces of the people who saw me flying was absolute total fear. 

Yes, it can be different there. I'm not sure where there is. There are people there, and things going on that are not necessarily going on here. I was going to try and describe that, then got tongue tied, for lack of better words, and decided to leave that out.

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I often think about the symbolism in my dreams to see if there is a message there for me. Many times, not always, but many times, I find that there seems to be a message behind the dream
I used to read dream symbolism dictionary type books. I threw them out when I realized we all have our own definitions of symbols, unique to all of us. I have a kind of symbolism recognition in dreams. Certain symbols mean certain things and I know where I'm at. For example for me a fast moving highway is a symbol of a bridge between this world and the next. Where people crossing over go. Not always. Too me it is a bridge between worlds.

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I think its interesting that you knew you were helping people cross over, after death. I've never had that type of experience but somewhere I seem to recall Seth saying that Jane did this also
I just figured everyone does this, same as astral travel. I just didn't see it as anything other than common at the time.


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  All the while, other things in the same dream don't appear to necessarily follow along with my physical world reality.
  Dreams have their own reality!!!  :)

Your bleed through dreams remind me of something that's started happening to me lately.
I will be in a place I know, I will become aware that I'm dreaming, and aware that if I can hold the focus, actually switch over to a different time line. I've had 2 dreams where I could have walked back into my life 25 years ago. Say I'm 55, I could have reentered into my life at 30 years old and started from there. Then the implications of it all hits me and I wake up.

Offline jbseth

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Hi T.M. Hi All,

Just for clarification, when I used the term OOBE, I was specifically thinking of it in terms of someone who consciously sits down, say in a chair, and intentionally relaxes into a meditative mood, with the intention of purposely bringing on an OOBE. Then at some point after relaxing, this person consciously becomes aware that he has left his physical body and is having an OOBE. When he looks around he may see his body sitting in the chair. Then when he travels to his friend’s house, let’s say he sees his friend, pulling weeds in his yard.  Then later, after he finishes his OOBE experience, when he sees his friend and talks to him, his friend tells him that he was, in fact, pulling weeds at that time.

In this type of scenario, I would say that the person having the OOBE, is probably in this physical world reality and not in some dream or other type of reality.

Some people who have had Near Death Experiences, NDE’s, have also reported having an OOBE, where they saw the doctors and nurses working on them while they may have been dead. Again, here the personality appears to be in this physical world reality.

Then again, many people who have had these types of OOBEs, during a NDE also report going through a tunnel, and communicating with relatives who have previously died. These other experiences of going through a tunnel and communicating with dead relatives I would say do not occur in this physical world reality.

Please don’t get me wrong here. I’m not trying to start an argument or anything, I’m just trying to explain where my mind was when I was asking about OOBE.

This topic can get kind of crazy because people do report having OOBE’s and in their OOBE’s, they travel into realities that are much different than our physical world reality.



I’d like to take credit for having “learned” how to fly in my more recent flying dreams, but I really can’t say that this is true. It was more of an accidental thing, I just jumped up and started to fly, and I didn’t do it consciously.  Maybe that’s my next step.  :)



I hear what you are saying about the dream books. For much of my early life, I was very well connected to my intellectual side, but I was also very far removed from my intuitive side and my emotional side. This had to do with the choices I made while being raised in my specific family.

For people like me at that time, I think the dream books can be a useful tool. However, for others they can also be somewhat limiting.  For people who are intuitive, I think they are better off searching within for the meaning of the dream symbols, because I agree with you, it is how "we" each interpret the symbols of our dreams that is really important.

I do have a dream book that I like and on rare occasions, I have used it. Especially for those dreams where I just don’t seem to be able to determine, what the dream meant.

Along these same lines, I have come to realize, that some dreams never do make sense to me and I think that this is OK.  I’m not really sure that all dreams necessarily have a purpose, in this specific way.

 
I find your comments about having a lucid dream and then realizing that you could walk back into your life for example 25 years ago, and started from there, extremely interesting. I’ve never had any dreams like that. I wonder what would happen if you did this? Would you experience a probable self???

I’m really enjoying this post, as it makes me aware of just what is possible. 
 
jbseth



Offline T.M.

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Hi Jbseth,

Sometimes I think there's too many terms :) I've never been able to sit down and consciously will myself out of the body.
I've never really tried to either though.

That's still cool about your spontaneous flight! I think there's a lot we do in dreams that just don't make it to the conscious mind upon awakening. Maybe if you think about becoming aware of it while falling asleep it will happen :)

I follow a few YouTube channels that think there will be a mass sort of ascension; and that we will literally walk into a new timeline.
I guess some part of me really believes that's possible.  I've been trying to clean up my physical body from fluoride in hopes of being able to consciously and lucidly travel again.

When the time line shift dreams happen, I'm normally thinking of astral traveling before falling asleep. I will usually put on some binaural beats on the headphones, and fall asleep while listening.

But I wind up being awake and aware that, I'm awake, and there is a different path being presented that I can take. It frightens me, because I know I can, if I commit to it, and there's no changing back.  I start thinking, what will the people I know be like? Will they be there? What will my past there be?  In this life, I went through a horrible time with drinking. In the dream I wonder, will I walk into a past that's better or worse? There's just to many unknowns to consider, and commit to. That's when I wake up.

I don't know if it matters but I've been working with Unknown Reality and Seth Speaks pretty much.
There's a YouTube channel, I have it listed in the free section, a guy reads most of the Seth books in vids. There's a lot of nights I've fallen asleep listening to him. So maybe somehow that's influencing me also?

Offline jbseth

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Hi T. M., Hi All,


In your last reply you mentioned that there are some YouTube channels that think there will be a mass sort of ascension; and that we will literally walk into a new timeline.  I've heard some of them too.

I'm not so sure that this is going to happen but I do think that people are psychically picking up something from a potential probable future.  In Seth Speaks, Seth talks about the 2nd coming of Christ, which he says will occur around or by the year 2070 or 2075, I forget which. Furthermore, while some channels talk about a mass ascension, some talk about a mass UFO landings, and I've heard several talk about earthquakes and a planetary polar shift.

In addition to this, when I honestly look at the world that we live in today, I can see future probable events that could include worldwide overpopulation problems, worldwide environmental pollution problems and worldwide nuclear warfare or nuclear waste issues. The thing is, you don't have to be psychic, to grasp that we might be heading for some challenging times in the future.

I'm purposely not focusing on any of these issues, as I have no interest in bringing them about. However, I do believe there will be some major challenges (possibly including religious beliefs and people overthrowing their governments) for the people of the world in the 21st century, and I think many psychics and channels are intuitively picking up on.



In regards to your dreams and the possibility of moving into a probable past say 25 years ago, I suspect that if you actually accomplished this, you wouldn't know in that other probable life that you actually did this.  Furthermore, please don't take this as a recommendation that you do this, because I don't honestly know whether that would be a good decision for you or not.

I suspect that I may have actually died and transitioned into an afterlife experience the night I had that dream, when I was 35. I also suspect that I also transitioned into another probable reality at that moment and that probable reality is this reality that I'm presently living in. However, I have no way of proving either one of these 2 scenarios, either way.


jbseth

Offline T.M.

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Hi Jbseth,


I agree with your post. There's something going on, people can feel it. I remember that passage in S.S. about Christ returning by 2070 or 2075.  Seth doesn't come right and say it but hints at us going through a rough time. So I figure from now till then events are going to pick up.

Around 2010 I was having dreams, something happened to earth. The dreams would come about 3 days in a row. Every night picking up where the last one left off. I didn't see anything happen, I just knew, and so did everyone I know. There was quite the small crowd in my dreams. Family, friends, and the local community. We were gathered together trying to figure out what happened. There was a barrier we were not allowed to cross. We wanted to go there, but we're not allowed too. We were being cut off from where we were used to going. We knew something big had happened. That's the gist of it.

I was recovering from health problems at the time, and would attempt to watch a little t.v., that was about it.
I was legally blind at the time, so surfing the net was useless. Later I got my eyes fixed.
I remember another dream around that time of being put on a space ship with other people, and being moved to a new location.
I was rather upset about it too. I didn't consent to what they were doing, and neither was I asked if I wanted to participate in any of this.

About 2016, I found a small YouTube channel, that swears the planet was destroyed back then, and that we were in mass transferred via the D-wave computer to another probable earth. I have my own way of vetting people, and this girl I mostly trust.
She says many dreams aren't dreams, but memories of actual events. I think she's right and knows of what she speaks. The dreams happened long before I ever delved into this kind of material, or my conspiracy stuff. I've never forget the dreams due to the intensity and the way they played, one after the next. I've learned that's an important signal. I honestly didn't know what to make of them at the time.
I'm not sure if maybe D-wave is somehow making stuff like this more possible. Or maybe mankind is becoming aware of its potentials and using them, aliens, all of the above, or just what the heck is going on.

I think we are in a time where there might well be a splitting off and different timelines become available for people to choose from. People will go to whatever timeline matches their overall vibration. I too can see a multitude of scenarios playing out.

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I suspect that I may have actually died and transitioned into an afterlife experience the night I had that dream, when I was 35. I also suspect that I also transitioned into another probable reality at that moment and that probable reality is this reality that I'm presently living in. However, I have no way of proving either one of these 2 scenarios, either way.
If you have strong feelings you changed timelines, I have no doubt that you did!  Part of what bugged me, was that I was aware of what was going on consciously, and I wasn't sure I could handle being in a new timeline, knowing I wasn't originally from the new one.

When I helped people cross over, its more that I got them from this plane to that one. I never did the counseling aspect that Seth mentioned. My Dad passed away about 7 years ago. We were close. I remember he was confused initially, and kept bouncing back and forth between planes. My final dream of him when he had accepted what was happening. There were 3 of us going down a highway in his truck. He was driving, I was by the window. Between us was some girl. She looked a lot like me, and about the same age. She was talking quietly in his ear. He was deeply concentrating and not talking. We got to a certain stretch of the road and he stopped the truck. My door sprung open and I was suddenly standing on the side of the road. The girl looked at me and said she will take care of him. And off they went. At first I wanted to slap her, but couldn't get to her. I mean really, who did she think she was anyways? He was my Dad, not hers, and I never saw her before.

Then I woke up and realised who she likely was :)

Offline Deb

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I too have had a lot of flying dreams, thought nothing of it, because a lot of people do. Mostly when I was growing up. BUT now that I think about it, flying is not for natural humans, and in no part of our evolution theory as far as I know, so WHY is it such a common dream for people? Hmmmmm. For me, it just lends more credibility to the Seth material.

Flying in dreams is not effortless for me, my personal interpretation is more like swimming in space. Maybe just because swimming is a more familiar experience. I actually have to "swim" up to get elevation, raise my energy to keep myself high enough above ground. Maybe I'm just new at it.

Quote from: jbseth
Please don’t get me wrong here. I’m not trying to start an argument or anything, I’m just trying to explain where my mind was when I was asking about OOBE.

Right, I think along the same lines as far as definition goes. But I also see them as being the same thing, but think of NDEs as OBEs caused by 'temporary' death. I guess the ultimate OBE IS death to the body. But specific words are necessary for us to communicate clearly, especially in writing, since we aren't aware of our telepathic connection.

Quote from: T.M.
That's kind of another interest of mine, changing timelines. There's some interesting vids on YouTube about people doing things like that, they call it Quantum Jumping. Maybe there really is such a thing! 

Do you remember the TV show, Quantum Leap? I loved it, the main character, due to a problem with an experimental time travel device, was leaping into people's bodies in different time periods. He'd solve problems, and would be zipped into a different life once his job was done. He just wanted to get back home. One time he'd be a man during a certain time period, another time a woman, a kid, different races. There were 5 seasons (1989-93), I don't think I watched it to the end. Actually, now since I've found Seth, I'd love to watch some of the episodes again from that perspective.

Quote from: T.M.
I remember that passage in S.S. about Christ returning by 2070 or 2075. Seth doesn't come right and say it but hints at us going through a rough time. So I figure from now till then events are going to pick up.

I don't think I picked up on the rough time part, but the most popular topic on this forum to date is the one about the Return of the Christ Personality and there's a lot of information, speculation and debates in it. Six pages worth. So if you're curious...

Quote from: jbseth
I suspect that I may have actually died and transitioned into an afterlife experience the night I had that dream, when I was 35. I also suspect that I also transitioned into another probable reality at that moment and that probable reality is this reality that I'm presently living in. However, I have no way of proving either one of these 2 scenarios, either way.

Yep, it's always a matter of not being able to prove spiritual things in this reality.

It was a remarkable story (about your dream and your wife's)! For some reason it reminded me of a dream I had years ago while staying at an old cabin in the mountains. It was a night-long dream, a lot of of things going on on several levels. I kept waking up and then going back into the dream again. At one point I had a dream within the dream, woke up from that inner dream and there was a ghost of a man in my room. He looked to be maybe 40, short dark hair, balding. He told me his name was Bob, and that he had died of a heart attack. He had a ghost wife and a ghost son (he told me the boy died from asthma or something). These were not his family when he was living, they were an adopted after-death family. Being a paranormal investigator at the time, I asked if he would help me with my investigations—from the other side. He declined.

Quote from: T.M.
She says many dreams aren't dreams, but memories of actual events.

Seth kind of says that too, but events outside of this current reality. Coincidentally, I just found this old quote from Seth about dreams that has been sitting on my laptop since November.

Seth: "Most dreams are like animated postcards brought back from a journey that you have returned from and largely forgotten. Your consciousness is already oriented again to physical reality; the dream, an attempt to translate the deeper experience into recognizable forms. The images within the dream are also highly coded, and are signals for underlying events that are basically not decipherable."
Seth Speaks, Session 570.

Oh, I've also helped a couple of dead people transition that I consciously experienced and remember. One was my mother, a couple of weeks after she passed in 1985. The other was a young man, a complete stranger, who died in an accident that occurred half a mile away from where I was at the time I "saw" him. I've never done the counseling either, at least in my conscious state. My job for the two I remember was only to make them aware that they had died and that they had another place to be. My father visited me in a dream almost year after he died (1976). He said he came to ease my mind about a life-changing decision and that now he was dead he had new freedoms and abilities and I need not worry about him when making my decision. When I started asking him questions such as where do you go when you're dead, he said he wasn't allowed to tell me anything about that. As a PS, I was living with my boyfriend when my father died. He was dreaming that my father had died and was trying to contact me at the time I got "the" phone call that my father had died. The phone woke my boyfriend up from the dream.

Quote from: T.M.
I was reading about Seth telling Joseph about his counterparts. How one died in the war, another died at 12 as a boy.

I need to take another look at that. I thought Seth was talking about Rob's probable selves rather than counterparts, but at the time I read it counterparts was a new concept for me. I do remember Seth saying one of Rob's mother's probable selves died and the energy was transferred to the mother he "knew."
« Last Edit: August 09, 2018, 10:36:34 AM by Deb »

Offline T.M.

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Hi Deb,

Quote
Flying in dreams is not effortless for me, my personal interpretation is more like swimming in space. Maybe just because swimming is a more familiar experience. I actually have to "swim" up to get elevation, raise my energy to keep myself high enough above ground.

That's interesting! I wouldn't take that to mean your new at it. Just like you said, your interpretation of it.

Quote
Do you remember the TV show, Quantum Leap? 

Yes, I used to like that show! It would be interesting to rematch now that I'm more grounded in Seth.
There was another one too, called Sliders, came our in 1995. 
Very much along the same lines, yet it was a group of individuals. The show follows a group of people, called "Sliders", as they travel ("sliding") between different Earths in parallel universes via a vortex-like wormhole, hoping to return safely to their original Earth Prime.


Quote
but the most popular topic on this forum to date is the one about the Return of the Christ Personality and there's a lot of information, speculation and debates in it. Six pages worth. So if you're curious...
 
    I will check it out, Thank you!


Quote
Being a paranormal investigator at the time, I asked if he would help me with my investigations—from the other side. He declined. 

Ghosts freak me out! I'm surprised how superstitious I can be at times! If disincarnate people are in my dream state, I'm okay with that. In my waking reality, No!  Still, I think that it could be fascinating to see and communicate with disincarnate beings.
I did live in a house haunted by a malevolent being, once, long ago. Almost everyone picked up on the energy of the being, and the owner couldn't keep renters in the place! Strangely enough the house no longer exists, and another house has Not been built in its place. It was in a good area for real estate too.

Quote
Seth kind of says that too, but events outside of this current reality. Coincidentally, I just found this old quote from Seth about dreams that has been sitting on my laptop since November.

Seth: "Most dreams are like animated postcards brought back from a journey that you have returned from and largely forgotten. Your consciousness is already oriented again to physical reality; the dream, an attempt to translate the deeper experience into recognizable forms. The images within the dream are also highly coded, and are signals for underlying events that are basically not decipherable."   Seth Speaks, Session 570.

I hadn't thought of it that way!

Quote
My father visited me in a dream almost year after he died (1976). He said he came to ease my mind about a life-changing decision and that now he was dead he had new freedoms and abilities and I need not worry about him when making my decision. When I started asking him questions such as where do you go when you're dead, he said he wasn't allowed to tell me anything about that. As a PS, I was living with my boyfriend when my father died. He was dreaming that my father had died and was trying to contact me at the time I got "the" phone call that my father had died. The phone woke my boyfriend up from the dream.

I started thinking after reading this, are there probable heavens and hells, along with probable earth?
Is that what's happening when we help people to cross over, getting them to a certain one of those?
I would imagine someone born 200 years before or after us would have a very different idea of the afterlife than us, hence the need for guides at times? I would imagine those of us living at any given time have an understanding of a shared kind of symbolism, and can therefore help each other a little better, than someone who is outside of that.
I know Seth has said we need to break away from a one line definition of ourselves. That we aren't just "one" person.
If we aren't just one person, and there isn't just one earth, that has one specific line of history. Maybe there's not just one heaven either!

Quote
I was reading about Seth telling Joseph about his counterparts. How one died in the war, another died at 12 as a boy.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________
I need to take another look at that. I thought Seth was talking about Rob's probable selves rather than counterparts, but at the time I read it counterparts was a new concept for me. I do remember Seth saying one of Rob's mother's probable selves died and the energy was transferred to the mother he "knew." 
I wish I could remember what book I read that in. Likely either the Unknown Reality, or Seth Speaks.
It was around the session that Seth was telling Rob about his Mom.


I have not figured out how to do partial quotes. Best I can do is highlight text, and then copy and paste into a quote tag.
I don't know if it's because I've been so long away from these kinds of boards, or if my kindle fire has limitations in that regard.



Offline jbseth

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Quote from: Deb
I too have had a lot of flying dreams, thought nothing of it, because a lot of people do. Mostly when I was growing up. BUT now that I think about it, flying is not for natural humans, and in no part of our evolution theory as far as I know, so WHY is it such a common dream for people? Hmmmmm. For me, it just lends more credibility to the Seth material.


Hi Deb, Hi All,

I think I might know the answer to this.

In Seth Speaks, Chapter 18 (Various Stages of Consciousness, Symbolism and Multiple Focus), Session 571, Seth says:

"All symbols are an attempt to express feelings, feelings that can never be expressed adequately through language. Symbols represent the infinite variations of feelings, and in various stages of consciousness these will appear in different terms, but they will always accompany you."


Almost every time I can ever recall flying in my dreams, I was generally feeling ecstatic, while doing so.

Maybe the act of flying in a dream, symbolically relates to feelings of ecstasy.

I sense that this might be true, for me at least.

jbseth

Offline jbseth

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Quote from: Deb
Quote from: jbsethPlease don’t get me wrong here. I’m not trying to start an argument or anything, I’m just trying to explain where my mind was when I was asking about OOBE.Right, I think along the same lines as far as definition goes. But I also see them as being the same thing, but think of NDEs as OBEs caused by 'temporary' death. I guess the ultimate OBE IS death to the body. But specific words are necessary for us to communicate clearly, especially in writing, since we aren't aware of our telepathic connection.


Hi All,

I suspect that the real issue here is that as people became more aware of the complexities in regards to the nature of reality, they developed certain words to try to identify certain things. Here I mean words like medium, psychic, channeling, spirit guide, astral travel, OOBE, NDE, conscious expansion, collective consciousness, christ consciousness, etc.

The problem here, as I see it, is that the nature of reality, the personality, the soul or entity and All That Is, is so complex that, the words we presently use to explain these ideas and concepts don't quite fit all the parameters involved.

This, I think was the problem that Jane had, when people kept calling Seth, a "spirit guide". Jane sensed that Seth was much more than just a "spirit guide" but didn't quite have the correct terms to describe her understanding of Seth. She struggled with this, as explained in her books "Adventures in Consciousness" and "Psychic Politics" and came up with some new terms like personage or dramatization, but I'm not sure where she actually ended up with this.

I'm not saying that I have the right answers here, but I think the issue is that many of the terms we presently use to define or describe some of these concepts really are inadequate in some situations. 

jbseth

 


 and because of 

 





Offline Deb

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Quote from: T.M.
I started thinking after reading this, are there probable heavens and hells, along with probable earth?
Is that what's happening when we help people to cross over, getting them to a certain one of those?
I would imagine someone born 200 years before or after us would have a very different idea of the afterlife than us, hence the need for guides at times? I would imagine those of us living at any given time have an understanding of a shared kind of symbolism, and can therefore help each other a little better, than someone who is outside of that.
I know Seth has said we need to break away from a one line definition of ourselves. That we aren't just "one" person.
If we aren't just one person, and there isn't just one earth, that has one specific line of history. Maybe there's not just one heaven either!

I don't think there are any heavens or hells at all, but Seth has said we take our beliefs with us when we die, at least for a while. People will "create" versions of heaven or hell in F2 and it's the guides that help returning souls out of their hallucinations and get back into the groove of F2. And the scenarios no doubt change with the general beliefs of civilization at the time. But probable earths? Sure, I guess. Part of the game rules of this existence are probabilities, so probable events, probable selves, probable everything.

"There is no heaven and hell in Christian terms. However, if a personality believes strongly in the reality of hell, for some time after death he will experience the hallucination of a hell which will be of his own creation."

"This will last very briefly. Heaven and hell, indeed, are mere representations. They represented originally intuitive insights. But no heaven or hell exist in those terms. There is no place within the universe or within any universe or system for them. You create reality according to your beliefs and expectations. Therefore, it behooves you to examine your beliefs and expectations very clearly."
—TES7 Part One Of Seth’s Lecture To Pat’s Boston High School Class March 25, 1967

"10:54.) Your experience, in other words, follows your expectations. Now the same applies to after-death experience and to the dream experience, and to any out-of-body encounters. If you are obsessed with the idea of evil, then you will meet evil conditions. If you believe in devils, then you will encounter these."
—SS Chapter 10: Session 538, June 29, 1970

"(9:55.) I am speaking now of the events immediately following death, for there are other stages. Guides will helpfully become a part of your hallucinations, in order to help you out of them, but they must first of all get your trust."

—SS Chapter 9: Session 536, June 22, 1970

Oh, Seth telling Rob about Rob's probable selves is early on in Unknown Reality 1.

As far as taking partial quotes, it's really easy and should work in Kindle Fire. Just highlight some text and then click the link Quote Entire Post (or highlight some text for a PARTIAL quote), which is below the post title, and the quote will end up in the Quick Reply box at the bottom of your browser page. You can add several partial quotes as long as you don't click Preview. You also have to click the "Quite Entire Post" link within the post from which you are quoting. If you click the link in a different post, it will mess up the link info (author name, post number). See my attached screen captures (click on the image to enlarge it).

Quote from: jbseth
In Seth Speaks, Chapter 18 (Various Stages of Consciousness, Symbolism and Multiple Focus), Session 571, Seth says:

"All symbols are an attempt to express feelings, feelings that can never be expressed adequately through language. Symbols represent the infinite variations of feelings, and in various stages of consciousness these will appear in different terms, but they will always accompany you."

So you're saying the flying is a symbol and not the sensation of astral travel? Or  a symbol OF astral travel? I still think it's interesting that it would be so common  for humans to think of flying. I suppose it's also a symbol for freedom. Free as a bird.

Quote from: jbseth
The problem here, as I see it, is that the nature of reality, the personality, the soul or entity and All That Is, is so complex that, the words we presently use to explain these ideas and concepts don't quite fit all the parameters involved.

I totally agree. Even Seth struggled to present some concepts because our words are not adequate enough for him to express ideas so foreign to us, and he had to also word things in a way we could comprehend. In Seth Speaks he talks a lot about speakers and how they have to walk that fine line, and they have to be very familiar with the communication methods and rules of existence of whatever plane they are visiting. No easy feat.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2018, 08:53:45 AM by Deb »

Offline T.M.

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Quote from: Deb
Quote from: T.M.
I started thinking after reading this, are there probable heavens and hells, along with probable earth?
Is that what's happening when we help people to cross over, getting them to a certain one of those?
I would imagine someone born 200 years before or after us would have a very different idea of the afterlife than us, hence the need for guides at times? I would imagine those of us living at any given time have an understanding of a shared kind of symbolism, and can therefore help each other a little better, than someone who is outside of that.
I know Seth has said we need to break away from a one line definition of ourselves. That we aren't just "one" person.
If we aren't just one person, and there isn't just one earth, that has one specific line of history. Maybe there's not just one heaven either!

I don't think there are any heavens or hells at all, but Seth has said we take our beliefs with us when we die, at least for a while. People will "create" versions of heaven or hell in F2 and it's the guides that help returning souls out of their hallucinations and get back into the groove of F2. And the scenarios no doubt change with the general beliefs of civilization at the time. But probable earths? Sure, I guess. Part of the game rules of this existence are probabilities, so probable events, probable selves, probable everything.

"There is no heaven and hell in Christian terms. However, if a personality believes strongly in the reality of hell, for some time after death he will experience the hallucination of a hell which will be of his own creation."

"This will last very briefly. Heaven and hell, indeed, are mere representations. They represented originally intuitive insights. But no heaven or hell exist in those terms. There is no place within the universe or within any universe or system for them. You create reality according to your beliefs and expectations. Therefore, it behooves you to examine your beliefs and expectations very clearly."
—TES7 Part One Of Seth’s Lecture To Pat’s Boston High School Class March 25, 1967

"10:54.) Your experience, in other words, follows your expectations. Now the same applies to after-death experience and to the dream experience, and to any out-of-body encounters. If you are obsessed with the idea of evil, then you will meet evil conditions. If you believe in devils, then you will encounter these."
—SS Chapter 10: Session 538, June 29, 1970

"(9:55.) I am speaking now of the events immediately following death, for there are other stages. Guides will helpfully become a part of your hallucinations, in order to help you out of them, but they must first of all get your trust."

—SS Chapter 9: Session 536, June 22, 1970

Oh, Seth telling Rob about Rob's probable selves is early on in Unknown Reality 1.

As far as taking partial quotes, it's really easy and should work in Kindle Fire. Just highlight some text and then click the link Quote Entire Post (or highlight some text for a PARTIAL quote), which is below the post title, and the quote will end up in the Quick Reply box at the bottom of your browser page. You can add several partial quotes as long as you don't click Preview. You also have to click the "Quite Entire Post" link within the post from which you are quoting. If you click the link in a different post, it will mess up the link info (author name, post number). See my attached screen captures (click on the image to enlarge it).

Quote from: jbseth
In Seth Speaks, Chapter 18 (Various Stages of Consciousness, Symbolism and Multiple Focus), Session 571, Seth says:

"All symbols are an attempt to express feelings, feelings that can never be expressed adequately through language. Symbols represent the infinite variations of feelings, and in various stages of consciousness these will appear in different terms, but they will always accompany you."

So you're saying the flying is a symbol and not the sensation of astral travel? Or  a symbol OF astral travel? I still think it's interesting that it would be so common  for humans to think of flying. I suppose it's also a symbol for freedom. Free as a bird.

Quote from: jbseth
The problem here, as I see it, is that the nature of reality, the personality, the soul or entity and All That Is, is so complex that, the words we presently use to explain these ideas and concepts don't quite fit all the parameters involved.

I totally agree. Even Seth struggled to present some concepts because our words are not adequate enough for him to express ideas so foreign to us, and he had to also word things in a way we could comprehend. In Seth Speaks he talks a lot about speakers and how they have to walk that fine line, and they have to be very familiar with the communication methods and rules of existence of whatever plane they are visiting. No easy feat.

Quote from: Deb
I don't think there are any heavens or hells at all, but Seth has said we take our beliefs with us when we die, at least for a while. People will "create" versions of heaven or hell in F2 and it's the guides that help returning souls out of their hallucinations and get back into the groove of F2. And the scenarios no doubt change with the general beliefs of civilization at the time. But probable earths? Sure, I guess. Part of the game rules of this existence are probabilities, so probable events, probable selves, probable everything.

"There is no heaven and hell in Christian terms. However, if a personality believes strongly in the reality of hell, for some time after death he will experience the hallucination of a hell which will be of his own creation."

"This will last very briefly. Heaven and hell, indeed, are mere representations. They represented originally intuitive insights. But no heaven or hell exist in those terms. There is no place within the universe or within any universe or system for them. You create reality according to your beliefs and expectations. Therefore, it behooves you to examine your beliefs and expectations very clearly."
—TES7 Part One Of Seth’s Lecture To Pat’s Boston High School Class March 25, 1967


I was thinking more of people in general, believing in a heaven and/or hell scenarios :)
I don't believe in that so much anymore. A classical heaven would bore me to death!

Thanks for the info on the partial quotes. I was looking for a highlight text button on the menu reply icons. Looks like I don't need one.

Offline jbseth

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Quote from: Deb
Quote from: jbsethIn Seth Speaks, Chapter 18 (Various Stages of Consciousness, Symbolism and Multiple Focus), Session 571, Seth says:"All symbols are an attempt to express feelings, feelings that can never be expressed adequately through language. Symbols represent the infinite variations of feelings, and in various stages of consciousness these will appear in different terms, but they will always accompany you."So you're saying the flying is a symbol and not the sensation of astral travel? Or  a symbol OF astral travel? I still think it's interesting that it would be so common  for humans to think of flying. I suppose it's also a symbol for freedom. Free as a bird.


Hi Deb, Hi All,

It has been my experience that "sometimes", the events that occur in my dream world reality are symbolic messages that apply to something that is going on in my "real" physical world reality.

For example, let's say that for several weeks I've been thinking about how to confront a family member in regards to an issue that neither one of us will be comfortable talking about.  During this time period, I may have a dream and in this dream, I might notice a dog was gnawing on a bone. 

After I wake up from this dream, if I ask myself, "What did that mean?", sometimes I'll get an intuitive response that this has to do with an issue that I've been "gnawing on" in regards to confronting my family member.


I don't know if others ever have this type of experience when they think about their dreams, but this happens to me quite often.

In this dream, the image of a dog, gnawing on a bone was a dream symbol of something else; in this case, a problem that I've been 'gnawing on" here in the real world reality.


When a person has a flying dream, the flying experience itself "may" in some cases be a symbol. It "may" be a  symbol that represents something going on for the person having the dream, in this real world reality.  This symbol could represent having feelings of ecstasy, but it also could represent other ideas such as: "letting my spirit soar", "being free as a bird", or "taking a flight to freedom", for example.


I think that for many people, flying represent freedom; and conversely, not being able to fly is restrictive.  I also think for many people, if they could fly, they would.  This then, is the reason why, I think, that humans think about flying.


jbseth

Offline jbseth

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Hi All,

Today I came across some Seth information which seems to be pertinent to our discussion on dreams that we were having here. This information comes from “The Early Sessions”, Book 5, Sessions 208 through 211.

From what I can tell, after reading through this section of Book 5, it sounds to me like Seth was directing Jane and Rob to study their dreams as part of an investigation into the nature of reality. This also has to do with what Seth calls “primary realities” and “secondary realities”.


In “The Early Sessions”, Book 5, Session 211, Seth says:

“Now. I will continue. Man will not learn the basic nature of reality by studying the physical universe alone, nor will he learn it by studying the personality as it operates within the physical universe alone.”

“The nature of reality can only be approached by an investigation of reality as it is directly experienced in all levels of awareness; reality as it appears under dream conditions, under other conditions of dissociation, and as it appears in the waking condition.”

Then, in this same session, after talking about the awake self and the sleeping self he says, the following:

“Now there are indeed connections between the two conditions. And there are definite realities that exist in both states, and these uniting realities will be what we are looking for. For only by finding these can you discover the nature of human personality and the nature of reality in which it must operate.”


In “The Early Sessions”, Book 5, Session 208, Seth says:

[…] “If it were a primary reality, you would not escape from it even in the sleeping state. Those realities which are primary and basic you can never escape from.”

“Those realities however which appear only at certain stages of consciousness, are secondaries.”




In “The Early Sessions”, Book 5, Session 209, Seth says:

[…] “There is no way to probe the realities of consciousness except that a personality travels through all levels of consciousness open to him, and do so in such a way that he can retain and apply the information that he receives in these inner travels.”

I suspect that this then, may have been one of the reasons why Jane kept a dream journal.



Then in “The Early Sessions”, Book 5, Session 210, Seth gives us some examples of “primary realities”. In this session, Seth says:

[…] “Ruburt brought up a point, I believe; he observed that the experience of talking occurred in both waking and the dreaming states, but did not think that these represented primaries.”

“Talking represents a primary, the primary of communication. Walking represents a primary, the primary of motion.”


In “The Early Sessions”, Book 5, Session 208, Seth also says that gravity, clock time and aging are not “primary realities”.


Wow. I had never thought about studying my dreams in order to determine the “primary realities”. I think this is a very intriguing idea.  Do you have any thoughts on what other realities may or may not be “primary realities”?

I’m thinking that maybe the "inner senses???

jbseth


Offline jbseth

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Hi T.M., Hi Deb, Hi All,

Here’s some interesting information I found from Seth today on flying and falling dreams. Given what he says here, I think this shed’s some new light on Deb’s question about why it would be so common for people to have flying dreams.


The Early Sessions, Book 7, Session 282, page 14:

“There are also some root dreams shared by the race as a whole.

Most of these are not as symbolic however as Jung thought them to be, though he used a different term, and had only a dim conception of them. Many root dreams are literal interpretations of abilities used by the inner self.

Flying dreams you see are not symbolic of anything. They are valid and actual experiences, though often intermixed with other dream elements. Falling dreams are experience. They represent downward motion in your system, or a loss of form control during projection. They may of course be embellished with other material.”


The Early Sessions, Book 7, Session 286, pages 44 and 45:

“I mentioned that objects are symbols to express basic reality, the reality of direct experience. On one level dreams deal with objects and dream images. Here they are still being used as symbols. At deeper levels however in the dream state there is direct experience, and objects are not used.

There are root dreams that represent basic inner experiences. Initially no images are involved. If you remember the dreams, you remember them with images however. Flying dreams are an example here. They are not symbolic of anything, basically speaking. They represent direct experience.

If you recall the dream it may seem to you that you were in your physical body. Your physical root assumptions in this case would be so strong that you could not imagine yourself, even in a dream, without a physical body. We have discussed the various forms actually used, however.

Falling dreams also belong to the root dream category. They also represent direct experience, as the inner self once more reenters the physical body. No up or down really exists, you see, but the root assumptions take these directions for granted, and the fear of falling is a learned response. It is learned early, but it is learned.”


jbseth

 

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