Seth on Buddhism

[Sena]

Seth was clear about the positive as well as the negative aspects of Buddhist teachings. A quote on the positive aspect:

"The God myth enabled him, man, to give his higher so-called instincts an objectivity, and the God concept represented and still represents a link with the inner self. Now. As far as hard facts are concerned, there is no God as mankind has envisioned him, and yet God once existed as mankind now envisions him. What he is now is not what the religious think he is. Yet once he was only what they think he is now. For in fact he did evolve, and was not complete, but represented a supreme will to be from the beginning. He is not human in your terms, though he passed through human stages; and here the Buddhist's myth comes closest to approximating reality. He is not one individual, in your terms, but is a psychic gestalt, an energy gestalt. (from "The Early Sessions: Book 2 of The Seth Material" by Jane Roberts, Robert Butts)

Seth on the negative aspects of Buddhism:

"You may be quite able to see through the distortions of conventional Christianity. You may have changed your ideas to such an extent that you can see little similarity between your current ones and those of the past. Now you may believe in the theories of Buddhism, for example, or of another Eastern philosophy. The differences between any of those systems of thought and Christianity may be so apparent that the similarities escape you. You may follow one of the schools of Buddhism in which great stress is laid upon the denial of the body, discipline of the flesh, and the avoidance of desire. These elements are quite characteristic of Christianity also, of course, but they may appear more palatable, exotic, or reasonable coming from a source foreign to your childhood education. So you may leap from one to the other, shouting emancipation and feeling yourself quite free of old limiting ideas. Philosophies that teach denial of the flesh must ultimately end up preaching a denial of the self and building a contempt for it, because even though the soul is couched in muscle and bone it is meant to experience that reality, not to refute it. All such dogmas use artificial guilt, and natural guilt is distorted to serve those ends. In whatever terms, the devotee is told that there is something wrong with earthly experience. You are, therefore, considered evil as a self in flesh by virtue of your very existence. This alone will cause adverse experience, making you reject the very basis of your own framework of experience. You will consider the body as a thing, a fine vehicle but not in itself the natural living expression of your being in material form. Many such Eastern schools also stress — as do numerous spiritualistic schools — the importance of the "unconscious levels of the self," and teach you to mistrust the conscious mind."


"However, these philosophies can lead you to a deep mistrust of both your body and mind. You are told that the spirit is perfect, and so you can try to live up to standards of perfection quite impossible to achieve. The failure adds to the sense of guilt. You attempt then to further banish the characteristic enjoyment of your own creaturehood, denying the lusty spirituality of your flesh and the strong present corporeal leanings of your soul. You will try to rid yourself of very natural emotions, and so be cheated of their great spiritual and physical motion...... In daily life such people will concentrate upon negative events, store them up, and unfortunately cause personal experience that will seem to quite reinforce the basic ideas." (from "The Nature of Personal Reality: Specific, Practical Techniques for Solving Everyday Problems and Enriching the Life You Know (A Seth Book)" by Jane Roberts)

From the Kindle edition: http://amzn.eu/eXEJMe1

The anti-body attitudes in Buddhism are generally confirmed when one looks at Buddhist literature:

"Early Buddhist literature reflects an understanding of the female body as being more closely connected to the material world and the cycle of reincarnation, due to its biological qualities. This has a severe impact on the woman's status and her chances of attaining enlightenment."

[jbseth]

Hi Sena, Hi All,

Yeah, Seth kind of gets negative in regards to the Buddhists not helping their fellow man in the following statement: from "The Early Sessions", Book 4, Session 177:


[... 53 paragraphs ...]

It is natural then that such a study will involve us in many allied matters. I may say that Buddhism does indeed come closer in essence to reality than other religions. However, the Buddhists either have not gone far enough, or have gone too far, according to your viewpoint.

[... 2 paragraphs ...]

It is all very well for monks to utilize astral projection. It is all very well for them to skitter through space as if they were on pogo sticks; their knowledge is fundamental and good. The fact remains that millions of human beings who follow and practice Buddhism are told, as many religions tell their followers, "Better worlds are to come, so ignore this agony, and this hunger, and this pain, and the murder in the streets. Be in ecstasy while your belly bloats." This is not human, and it is far less than godly."

[... 33 paragraphs ...]


jbseth

[Sena]

The fact remains that millions of human beings who follow and practice Buddhism are told, as many religions tell their followers, "Better worlds are to come, so ignore this agony, and this hunger, and this pain, and the murder in the streets. Be in ecstasy while your belly bloats." This is not human, and it is far less than godly."

jbseth,

Yes, one of the main teachings in Buddhism is that desire must be overcome.

http://www.buddhanet.net/4noble12.htm

There is a certain similarity between this and the Christian dictum, "Blessed are the poor in spirit". It is not surprising that the governing classes were happy to encourage Christianity and/or Buddhism, as these religions discourage the "masses" from revolting against their lot.

[jbseth]

Hi Sena, Hi All,

I can see from my post on August 24, 2018, at 11:34:27 pm, that the words, "This is not human, and it is far less than godly." might have been interpreted as coming from me and not Seth.   To be clear on this, those were "Seth's words" at the end of that quote, not mine.


One of the major differences that I see between some Eastern religious thought, and Seth's, is this concept of denial of desire. 

Seth, more or less, tells us that we "create our reality" by what we focus on or what we want, expect, or will, to occur in our reality.  You can't create your reality by denying what you want to occur in your reality.  As I see it, these are very different approaches to life and how it works.

I can definitely see your point of how the ruling classes in those countries that practiced this type of Eastern or Christian thought, would have been content to allow these religious concepts to keep the poor from protesting their improper treatment by those in power.

jbseth

[Deb]

Hi all, I've been dying to get involved in this conversation, I have lots of thoughts in my head but have been out of the country and have had little quiet time and very poor internet. I'll continue to try to get on line for more than a few seconds at a time.

BTW I'm in a remote area of SW Ireland at the moment, and the buzz has been about the Pope's visit to Dublin and the whole fiasco with the Catholic priests. An example of the effectiveness of denial.

[Sena]

An example of the effectiveness of denial.

The failure of the Roman Catholic Church to deal with the abuse problem is the final proof of their spiritual bankruptcy. One of the root causes of the problem is the compulsory celibacy for priests and nuns, but they won't dream of giving that up.
Deb, I hope you found nice quiet places in SW Ireland.

[jbseth]

Hi All,


Yeah Sena, I completely agree with you:

"The failure of the Roman Catholic Church to deal with the abuse problem is the final proof of their spiritual bankruptcy. One of the root causes of the problem is the compulsory celibacy for priests and nuns, but they won't dream of giving that up."


There is a protestant Episcopalian "Bishop" by the name of John Shelby Spong, who is a member of "the Jesus Seminar" (a New Testament critical / historical scholar group, who's purpose is to determine the historical truth about the New Testament). John Shelby Spong has written many books where he incorporates historical scholarship learning into his understanding of the New Testament. He also has a site called "Progressive Christianity" where people write in various questions they have about things affecting them in terms of progressive Christian beliefs.  Not only does John reply to these questions, but he lets other "progressive" Christian church leaders do so as well. 

I occasionally check out this site because I've been fascinated with New Testament historical scholarship, especially given what Seth has said about "Christ". To be clear, I don't consider myself a Christian in any way, I'm a follower of Seth. However, I've always had an interest in history.

Anyway, about 3-4 months ago, someone asked a question on this site about what's going on with the Christian church membership. Their question had to do with their personal recognition that church membership seemed to be down. The church leader who responded to this question, stated that there had been a study of Christian church attendance and it has been recognized that there is a very large decrease in church attendance across all Christian churches, not just the Catholic churches, but even the progressive churches. He said that the study showed that the younger generation just don't seem to be interested in attending any of the Christian churches. It was noted in the study, that most of the people who attend the churches today are the older generations and some middle age generations but very few of the younger generation attend any Christian churches. This has all Christian churches concerned.

This situation and the fact that the Catholic Church does not appear to be willing to effectively deal with this abusive priest situation, may be what leads up to the severe crisis that Seth talks about in Seth Speaks where in talking about the "second coming" he says the following in Session 586:

"(9:25.) By that time, all religions will be in severe crisis. He will undermine religious organizations — not unite them. His message will be that of the individual in relation to All That Is. He will clearly state methods by which each individual can attain a state of intimate contact with his own entity; the entity to some extent being man's mediator with All That Is."

jbseth

[Sena]

By that time, all religions will be in severe crisis. He will undermine religious organizations — not unite them. His message will be that of the individual in relation to All That Is. He will clearly state methods by which each individual can attain a state of intimate contact with his own entity; the entity to some extent being man's mediator with All That Is."

jbseth,

Thanks for highlighting this. One could say that Seth predicted the sexual abuse crisis, as Seth did his communicating in 1972 to 1982 or thereabouts, a considerable time before the problem came out into the open.
I like the idea of closer contact with my entity, but is Seth predicting that for 2075 or thereabouts when the Second Coming of Christ is due to occur?

[jbseth]

Hi Sena,

I don't think that Seth "predicted" the sexual abuse issue, because I believe that it has been occurring for a very long time.

My father, who was born in 1921, along with his older and younger siblings were all raised Catholic.
When he and my mother got married, according to the Catholic church at that time, they had to get married in a Catholic church, even though my mother was Christian (she was a Baptist, I believe). Otherwise, according to them, "God" would not recognize their union. My mother went along with this and as I recall had to take some courses in order to meet their requirements.


My father absolutely "hated" the Catholic Church and he was very suspicious of any other church as well. He would never let my mother raise us kids (my siblings and me) in the Catholic church and as a result of this, my siblings and I, never spent much time in any church, when we were growing up.


Once, when I was a teenager, my father indicated that he knew the Catholic priests had abused some kids, and he seemed to be talking about his siblings.  I suspect that he was abused as well, but he never talked about it ever again.



The Catholic Church, tells people that the Pope, is their emissary to God. Only the Pope can tell you what God wants from you. That's an amazing amount of power for one person and one organization to wield.

If the priests, who are next in line to the Pope, are abusing children, then how messed up must these poor kids be, when it comes to how they perceive God and their world. How secure can any of them be if God allows that to occur.

I know that Seth tells us, "there are no accidents", but that doesn't mean that we can't and shouldn't do what we can to change this situation. How messed up are the adults, in regards to feeling secure in their world, who were abused by Catholic priests when they were kids.

How messed up is a church that knows that this is occurring in their organization and their only action is to move the priests around inside the church and offer no support for the members who were abused by these people.

Interestingly enough, here in the US, I think that if most Americans had heard that their was a small church organization somewhere here in the US where these things were going on, then there would be a huge outcry from most Americans demanding that these people be put in jail and that this church be shut down. 

This, I believe, is the Catholic church version of story of what Seth was eluding to when he was giving the Buddhists a bad time for practicing their methods but not doing something to help the poor.

jbseth

[jbseth]

Hi Sena, Hi All,

I don't want to be-labor this issue but I found the following quote in "The Way Toward Health" Chapter 7, Session May 18, 1984. In this section of the notes before the actual session, Rob stated that this was "free-association" stuff from Jane, following Seth's suggestions for Jane on May 15, 1984. Rob said that, "We're to discuss her mistrust of her physical body, and related subjects."

Here's the quote (note: the red font change is mine):

[... 8 paragraphs ...]

(I asked her about Seth, a male, speaking through a woman. She said she suspected that as a woman she'd have more authority if she spoke as a male. She "sensed a feeling of duplicity" in the beginning of the sessions. I don't remember this either. Again she was getting nervous, her voice almost teary. She recalled that once Seth said that if he'd come through as a woman she wouldn't have stood for it. All of this male business is related to the male priests in her childhood years.

[... 1 paragraph ...]

(We talked a lot about the priests in her life, and the conflicts her work set up with their early teachings, and their personal behavior, good and bad. Jane remembered no reaction from her mother when her poetry came into conflict with the church, or when Father Rakin burned her books. I thought this strange.

(3:35. She was again nervous and edgy, and had another smoke. She talked about having a session to put it all together. She described again all those visits from Father Trenton. She talked about how the one priest who put her to bed when she was but 3 or 4 years old would "play" with her sexuality, and how Marie finally figured that out. This was the one who called her up while we lived together; he was old and living in a retirement home south of Pennsylvania, I believe. She described how Father Trenton sat with his back to Marie when he was mad at the mother, and how Father Rakin made advances to her. She grew up in a male-dominated world. The first time they met, Jane said Father Rakin said to her when she was but 13: "You're just too forward." A nice greeting, and one Jane obviously still remembers. She realized today, while talking, that her grandfather had no love for women either. And Marie said to her: "You were a nice kid until you turned about sixteen — then you turned into a bitch." Several times in Florida she thought I was going to leave her. I wasn't.

[... 28 paragraphs ...]


Sadly, it seems to me that, abuse by priests, has been going on for a while. I believe that if Seth would have tried to talk about this, Jane would definitely have blocked him.

jbseth

[Sena]

jbseth,

Thanks for sharing your personal experiences. I was brought up a Catholic by devout parents, although in later life my father gave up the nonsensical practice of going to Confession.
For the Catholic Church to believe they have the only "direct line" to God is the ultimate example of spiritual arrogance.

How messed up is a church that knows that this is occurring in their organization and their only action is to move the priests around inside the church and offer no support for the members who were abused by these people.

It is a known fact that the Church possesses secret archives which detail the abuse perpetrated by priests, and these archives are never made available to Law Enforcement authorities.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-pennsylvania-religion-sexcrimes/vatican-knew-of-pennsylvania-sex-abuse-cover-up-prosecutor-says-idUKKCN1LD2LB

[jbseth]

Hi Sena,

Thanks for sharing your personal information as well. From the comments that you've made so far, I'd say that we're on the same page here. 

Thanks for sharing the Reuters link as well; I hadn't seen that before. That first sentence was pretty amazing:

"(Reuters) - The Vatican knew of a cover-up of child sex abuse by Roman Catholic priests in Pennsylvania through secret archives that bishops in the state shared with church leaders in Rome, the state's attorney general Josh Shapiro said on Tuesday. "   


You started this post by pointing out how Seth was clear about the positive and negative aspects of the Buddhists teachings.  While Seth did have a lot to say about Christianity, I'm pretty sure that Jane would have blocked him from pointing out the many negative aspects of Christianity. She really didn't appear to be comfortable with talking about the Christ book or anything having much to do with any controversial Christian topics.

If she wouldn't have blocked him, I think that in addition to the Catholic church abuse issue, Seth would have had a lot to say about: 1) the hypocrisy of the fundamental protestant Christian churches where you have, for example, married reverends who regularly have affairs with unmarried congregants (as mentioned in the book "God Is Not a Christian, Nor a Jew, Muslim, Hindu...: God Dwells with Us, in Us, Around Us, as Us"; see link below) and 2) other Christian churches who profess hatred, in the name of the Bible (see the link below to the Westboro Baptist Church).


Link to the book, "God Is Not a Christian,...":

https://www.amazon.com/God-Not-Christian-Muslim-Hindu/dp/1416584447/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1535549620&sr=8-1&keywords=god+is+not+a+christian+pearson#customerReviews


Link to Westboro Baptist Church:   

http://www.godhatesfags.com/



I think it would have been interesting to know what Seth would have actually said on this topic.  Furthermore, had he done so, I suspect the Buddhists would have come out looking pretty good, when compared to the Christians. 

jbseth