Seth and John the Disciple

[jbseth]

Hi All,


I find the following comments made in "The Seth Material" to be really interesting. Not only Seth's statements about himself appearing as John the Disciple, but also Jane's comments in the following paragraph about the reported visions people have of various religious figures.

This statement made by Seth is also located in TES9, Session 482.

Do you think it's possible that people, who've seen visions of Jesus or the virgin Mary, and/or people who've seen "Jesus", during a NDE, for example, might actually be seeing something or someone else instead?



The Seth Material, Chapter  12:

I have appeared to her as a very gentle John of the Disciples, and spoken with her. This is not trickery, but a method of helping that she can accept. It is not unusual for those trying to help, to assume such comforting forms and images.

[/color](Later we thought that this last statement had extremely provocative implications for cases in which visions of religious figures are reported. We hope Seth will discuss this more thoroughly in the future.)


- jbseth

[inavalan]

@jbseth : Are you asking only from the point of view of Seth's teachings? Or you're also asking about others' beliefs / opinions?

[jbseth]

Hi inavalan,

Either or both is fine with me.

- jbseth

[inavalan]

Do you think it's possible that people, who've seen visions of Jesus or the virgin Mary, and/or people who've seen "Jesus", during a NDE, for example, might actually be seeing something or someone else instead?

I believe that, in an overwhelming number of cases, what they saw were thought-forms they, themselves, created.

When we imagine, dream, most NDE, most obe / astral projection / lucid dream, we project into our private slice of non-physical, into our imagination. This isn't the non-physical place were we "wake up" when we die.

Inside this private slice of non-physical, only its owner can create thought-forms.

Our subconscious continuously receives messages form other physical beings, and from non-physical guides, known and unknown entities (I don't use here Seth's nomenclature). None of those can directly create thought-forms inside our private slices. Only our subconscious may create its own thought-forms based on whatever it understands from those messages.

So, when we have visions, in whatever altered state of consciousness, we create whatever apparition we perceive. Even when these apparitions result from messages received from genuine non-physical entities, we don't see them, and they don't control how we see them.

It is also possible to project in the common section of the after-life, where we "go' when we die, but that's a different kind of projection, and you don't step into it by chance. This might be the reason for which Buddhist sages advise that astral projection can be a distraction for those who search to find out who they are. We can't find ourselves, our essence, in our imagination. Our essence is on another non-physical plane.

This is based on my beliefs, and I don't know how it fits into Seth's teachings.

[jbseth]

Hi All,

I sometimes wonder how people would recognize either Jesus or his mother.

-jbseth

[inavalan]

@jbseth

I guess that's why it's called faith ...

[LenKop]

Reminds me of this...

'At one time - in your terms - I myself acted as a guide; as in a sleep state Ruburt now follows the same road. The situation is rather tricky from the guide's viewpoint, for psychologically utmost discretion must be used. One man's Moses, as I discovered, may not be another man's Moses. I have served as a rather credible Moses on several occasions - and once, though this is hard to believe, to an Arab.'

Seth Speaks sess. 536

He goes on to to describe the battle that needed to be played out between Moses and Allah so that the built up beliefs during the Arab's life could be broken down so that he could 'evolve'.

But it also reminds me of a Robert Monroe story, where in the beginning of his out of body experiences he is struggling with some 'lower' energies on the Astral and a guide comes and saves him. Then when he is more experienced in his travels, he hears a cry for help in the astral, and enters a room to find his earlier self struggling, and he is the actual guide that comes to help. So he has played out the exact same scene, at two 'different' times, both as the victim, and as the savior.

Len

[Deb]

Do you think it's possible that people, who've seen visions of Jesus or the virgin Mary, and/or people who've seen "Jesus", during a NDE, for example, might actually be seeing something or someone else instead?

I think they are seeing who/what they expect to see, and a guide who meets them will acquiesce. I think Seth said we take our beliefs with us when we die, at least temporarily. So someone who is very religious will see who they assume is Jesus or Mary (poor Joseph always gets left out) or Mohammed or the flames of Hell. It's like the story Seth tells of the conflicted Arab who died and Seth staged a battle between Jesus and Allah to help him attain some peace of mind.

"He believed in Moses more than he did Allah, and I did not know until the last moment which form I was to assume. He was a very likable chap, and under the circumstances I did not mind when he seemed to expect a battle for his soul. Moses and Allah were to fight for him."
[skip]
"Finally the opposing clouds in which we appeared came closer. In my hand I held a tablet that said: "Thou shalt not kill." Allah held a sword. As we came closer we exchanged these items, and our followers merged. We came together, forming the image of a s-u-n (spelled out), and we said: "We are one.""
—SS Chapter 9: Session 536, June 22, 1970

And whoa, very cool story from Monroe. I didn't remember that, thanks.

[jbseth]

But it also reminds me of a Robert Monroe story, where in the beginning of his out of body experiences he is struggling with some 'lower' energies on the Astral and a guide comes and saves him. Then when he is more experienced in his travels, he hears a cry for help in the astral, and enters a room to find his earlier self struggling, and he is the actual guide that comes to help. So he has played out the exact same scene, at two 'different' times, both as the victim, and as the savior.


Hi LenKop,

Thanks for sharing that. 

I've completely forgotten about Robert Monroe and his OBE experiences.

As I recall, during some of his OBE's in his earlier books, he sometimes ran into a friend, he call AA or BB.
Then in his third book, "Ultimate Journey" he discovered that he was, in fact, this friend AA or BB.

That's really interesting.

I really like his 3 books.

-jbseth