Mentalism

[LarryH]

I have been fascinated by mentalism for some time now, and have shared in other threads here some of British mentalist Derren Brown's abilities. The following YouTube is a recent segment from America's Got Talent featuring a performance by mentalist Max Major. Before you watch, I suggest that you be ready with a clean sheet of paper and pen to follow his instructions. I want to find out if you get a result similar to the judge and audience (I did not participate in this portion). Also see if you get the same result with the setting on his watch (I did).

[Deb]

Wow, that was amazing! Do you suppose it was real? I did do as requested (drew a picture), but it was completely different than what everyone else came up with. Failed the clock test too. Maybe I'm just dense. I can't be hypnotized either. But subliminal messaging itself is real.

This reminded me of some things I've read from Eldon Taylor, one of my favorite authors. The first book of his that I read was Mind Programming: From Persuasion and Brainwashing to Self-help and Practical Metaphysics. Then there's I Believe: When What You Believe Matters! He maps out some examples of subliminal messaging used in print advertising, and it's pretty eye-opening. I still have one more book to read, Choices and Illusions.

Eldon's a really sharp and interesting guy, makes a lot of sense, and is a great speaker. I once heard him speak at a Hay House conference, and he actually got a standing ovation in the end. He also sells what he calls InnerTalk audio cds that have audio subliminal messages that are supposed to help people overcom personal issues. His technique was studied in a Utah prison, where special recordings where played over the intercom system and inmate violence and aggression went down significantly.

His books generally come with an InnerTalk CD, which I thought was nice. I recently bought one for getting over creative blocks, I'm curious if it will work. I'm not very suggestible, but maybe if I listen while doing some activity that distracts me, some of it will get through this thick skull.

[LarryH]

Wow, that was amazing! Do you suppose it was real?

If it was not real, Howie Mandel and 200 audience members would have to be in on the scam, and I don't think the show would survive after a fixed competition was inevitably uncovered.

[jbseth]

Hi LarryH, Hi Deb, Hi All,


Wow, that was an awesome video. Thanks for sharing that LarryH.  

I misunderstood the directions to the drawing and so I didn't get the image.

I was exactly 6 hours off on the watch setting.


I went back and watched the video again just for fun.


This reminds me of some of the other mentalists that you've shown lately. They definitely are fascinating.  I really like both magicians and these mentalist people. It's fascinating what they can do and how they do it.

Years ago my wife and I saw David Copperfield. He did some pretty amazing things in his show.


-jbseth

[jbseth]

Hi All,

Is this another synchronistic event?

Well, apparently sometimes even mentalists run into difficulty in regards to their credibility.

I saw this story today about Max Major, the mentalist who's been performing on AGT, and there's some question about something that occurred recently in one of his acts.

On AGT, Max asked a young woman from the viewing audience to give him a number, and it definitely sounds like she said 13. However immediately after this, Max says that she said 14 and Heidi puts the number 14 up on a board with 5 other numbers that had previously been chosen.

Later on, Max claims that he knew, beforehand, all 6 numbers on the board and he demonstrates this by showing a billboard that lists all 6 of these numbers.  The problem is, the both the board and the billboard contains the number 14, which is not the number that it sounds like the young woman actually said.

The internet is all a-twitter about this.


Over the years, on rare occasions I've seen this type of thing occur. Sometimes this seems to show up on shows like Jeopardy, where, for example, the comment I heard at home, doesn't appear to be the comment that was actually made by person on the show. This being based upon something that someone like Alex Trebeck says or does immediately afterward, in response to this comment.

Typically, I've noticed that, what I thought I heard is rarely ever contested. I'm not sure whether this is because the comment that I heard, was not the comment that was made, or whether the person who made the comment was uncomfortable with contesting this issue in front of a huge broadcast audience. Maybe it's a little of both.

Anyway here's the yahoo link

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/agt-magician-max-major-called-out-for-major-fail-dude-is-a-fraud-031847783.html


- jbseth
 

[LarryH]

Yes, it sounds like the girl said 13 to me. Reading past the linked video, someone is said to have been "coached" prior to drawing the sun in the video that I posted earlier. It would be interesting to know more about that. Obviously in that earlier video, all of the audience already had pen and paper ready, so there had to be some off-air "instructions" to prepare them for what was coming next, and in those instructions, he probably inserted "suggestions" beyond those that the TV audience saw. Maybe, at least for one of them saw through the "suggestions" consciously and viewed them as coaching. I seriously doubt that he blatantly told 200 people to draw a sun with a happy face when prompted. As to whether he is a fraud, any mentalist or magician can have a failed performance, and this was still a mostly successful performance. That being said, his claim that the girl said "14" when she really said "13" could be construed to be "fraudulent" in that it is intended to deceive others for financial or personal gain. However, that is part of being a mentalist or a magician. They don't claim magical or psychic powers. They openly say that they are tricking people.

[Deb]

someone is said to have been "coached" prior to drawing the sun in the video that I posted earlier. It would be interesting to know more about that. Obviously in that earlier video, all of the audience already had pen and paper ready, so there had to be some off-air "instructions" to prepare them for what was coming next, and in those instructions, he probably inserted "suggestions" beyond those that the TV audience saw.

For what it's worth, after I'd questioned the stunt, I did find a couple of articles. I never know what to believe, so I didn't share it until now. But, all the reality shows are scripted and coached to a degree. They have to be, otherwise there would be utter chaos. And the judges are all actors, aren't they? The watch trick? Howie had to be in on it. We have to suspend reason and logic to a degree when we read fiction, watch movies, tv shows. It's entertainment, all is fair.

The explanation below makes sense, and I think it was very clever and didn't take away from the video for me. It's like those tricky math puzzles I see on FB every so often. Chances are most of the audience didn't know they all ended up with the same answer.

"I was in the virtual audience for Max Major and I'll go through what happend. During an ad break before Malik's comments Max appeared in a VT. He told us to think of a 2 digit number between 10 and 100. He then said to add the 2 numbers (for example 81 would be 8+1=9). Then he told us to subtract that number from the original (81 - 9 = 72). He then showed us a grid with numbers 1-100, in each number was a picture. All the numbers in the 9 times table had the sunshine. Unless you couldn't do simple maths it was impossible for your answer to not be a multiple of 9 which meant everyone was matched with a sunshine. We already knew what to draw before his act so the part about him placing the idea of a sunshine in our mind was complete nonsense. I presume (but don't know 100%) that Howie was also shown the video which would explain how he also drew a sunshine."

from https://www.reddit.com/r/agt/comments/igqpmr/max_majors_performance/

also https://talentrecap.com/did-max-majors-act-prove-magicians-on-americas-got-talent-are-fake/

[jbseth]

Hi LarryH, Hi All,

Regarding the latest AGT video. Let's say that for the sake of argument, the young woman actually did say 13 and in response to this, Heidi placed 13 on the board, instead of 14.

Then, after this, Max spun the roulette wheel, Heidi rolled the roulette ball, and the ball landed on the number 13. This was the very number that the young woman had just picked.

Next, when we look at his lottery ticket, we see that here he actually got 5 of the 6 numbers right but instead of choosing a 13, he chose a 14 instead.  Then when we look at the billboard, we see that he got all but one of the numbers correct, again, instead of choosing 13, he chose 14 instead. However, he also choose the correct roulette number, 13. 

All in all, not too bad, however he did it.



There is however, one thing that I'm really curious about. In this latest AGT episode, as the roulette ball and wheel are both spinning, before the ball lands, Max says, "What's it going to be, who's going to be our big winner tonight." As though he expected the ball to land on one of the 6 numbers that had just been chosen.

Then the ball lands on 13, he asks, "Who chose 13", him and Heidi look at the board and realize that that 13 wasn't one of the 6 numbers on the board. At this point, for just the shortest of moments, there seems to be a look of "huh!" on his face. Then he quickly appears to recover and he gives us the, "I knew this was going to happen" story. 

If nothing else, I'd say that Max Major is definitely quick witted.



It also seem to me that it was at this point, that whatever he was planning to do, somewhat fell apart.

Wouldn't it be really ironic if this all fell apart because he heard the wrong number from the young woman?

I wonder what he was planning to do next, after the roulette ball landed, had it actually worked out as expected.   I wonder if we'll ever know.

- jbseth

[jbseth]

"I was in the virtual audience for Max Major and I'll go through what happend. During an ad break before Malik's comments Max appeared in a VT. He told us to think of a 2 digit number between 10 and 100. He then said to add the 2 numbers (for example 81 would be 8+1=9). Then he told us to subtract that number from the original (81 - 9 = 72). He then showed us a grid with numbers 1-100, in each number was a picture. All the numbers in the 9 times table had the sunshine. Unless you couldn't do simple maths it was impossible for your answer to not be a multiple of 9 which meant everyone was matched with a sunshine. We already knew what to draw before his act so the part about him placing the idea of a sunshine in our mind was complete nonsense. I presume (but don't know 100%) that Howie was also shown the video which would explain how he also drew a sunshine."

Hi Deb, Hi All,

Wow, that's really interesting. I can definitely see how this could have influenced the audience, if this is, in fact, what happened here.

-jbseth

[LarryH]

jbseth, the quote does not specifically say that he told them to draw a sun. It does not even specifically say that he told them to draw the image corresponding to their math answer. If he did not, then the sun corresponding to their math answer would be just another subliminal push. Nevertheless, the truth will come out. Thanks for delving into this.

Max is scheduled to appear soon in my area. I have contemplated going, but I'm not sure about safety protocols, not to mention that the shine has been dimmed on Max a little.

By the way, when he was asking the TV audience to think of a geometric shape ("not a circle or a square"), it didn't work for me. I thought of a pentagon.

[Deb]

jbseth, the quote does not specifically say that he told them to draw a sun. It does not even specifically say that he told them to draw the image corresponding to their math answer. If he did not, then the sun corresponding to their math answer would be just another subliminal push. Nevertheless, the truth will come out. Thanks for delving into this.

I'm guessing the part the person left out in his explanation was that each person was told to think of a number blah blah blah, and when they get their final number after all the adding and subtracting, they should find that number on the grid and draw it. I'd love to see the grid actually, because there were several different suns drawn, and so they could have been told to locate a row, probably tied to the original number they chose, and follow the column number containing their final answer (9) that intersects with that row.

It kind of reminds me of this card trick I've seen online. https://www.moillusions.com/will-now-read-mind-simple-card-trick/  Fun stuff.

I need to look at that part of the video where the audience shows the drawings to see if anyone screwed up their math.

[LarryH]

Max Major did not survive tonight's show. He was the last to be eliminated.