Author Topic: Living a Safe Universe - Book 1  (Read 321 times)

Online usmaak

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As I get back into Seth, I once again find myself struggling with how to put the material together in my head in a way that will make it easier to understand.  That's something that's never been easy for me because I find that I get hung up on the pieces of something and that keeps me from seeing the whole.  I found this quote from the first Living a Safe Universe book to be really good.  Lynda Madden Dahl has a way of condensing the material so that it can be more easily understood.

My Self Redefined

I am part of All That Is, from whom I can never be separated. Because I am part of All That Is, I share its creative abilities and processes. They are gifts of my nature.

I am action, the inner vitality of All That Is, and am conscious of myself. My consciousness is a focus through which I experience myself, and “myself,” in complete terms, includes my entity, inner self and focus personality. I am always all of these, because they cannot be separated.

I am a part of the spacious present. I cannot be removed from it, because it is within All That Is, as is everything. One of my gifts is my ability to pretend to leave the spacious present, and I do this for my own growth and expansion, or value fulfillment.

I define my self through my significance, by what I consider significant for my chosen focus or line of development. My significance is my boundary. It is inviolate; it cannot be breached by another consciousness. I am completely safe within my significance.

I psychologically explore my significance through my mental acts, which act as gateways to new experiences within my significance. My moment point is my point of action within my significance.

I am in constant communication with my inner self. With its help, I simultaneously create and experience in my moment point a present, a remembered past, and the outline of a future, all called into being by probabilities addressed by my mental acts. My inner self depends on me to furnish the clear mind that allows this to occur, without psychological complications that alter our preferred line of development for me.

What my inner self needs of me is trust. Trust is what I am learning in my chosen field of significance. And the more I choose trust over doubt and fear, the more my inner self and I grow into our potential. At that point, we are unstoppable.

Dahl, Lynda Madden. Living a Safe Universe: A Book for Seth Readers (pp. 97-98). The Woodbridge Group. Kindle Edition.
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Offline Sena

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Quote from: usmaak
I define my self through my significance, by what I consider significant for my chosen focus or line of development. My significance is my boundary. It is inviolate; it cannot be breached by another consciousness. I am completely safe within my significance
usmaak, very important quotes. I am not sure whether i completely understand Lynda, may be 90%. Lynda's books are one interpretation of the Seth teachings; other interpretations may be possible. I think it is a mistake to slavishly follow the Seth books. We need to make our own interpretations.

Online usmaak

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Quote from: Sena
Quote from: usmaak
I define my self through my significance, by what I consider significant for my chosen focus or line of development. My significance is my boundary. It is inviolate; it cannot be breached by another consciousness. I am completely safe within my significance
usmaak, very important quotes. I am not sure whether i completely understand Lynda, may be 90%. Lynda's books are one interpretation of the Seth teachings; other interpretations may be possible. I think it is a mistake to slavishly follow the Seth books. We need to make our own interpretations.
The problem with that is I get lost so easily and I tend to put a negative spin on things because I'm not the most positive person.  I'm still more than half convinced that we get this one life and then we're worm food.  That's a sucky way to live.  I've often said that I wished that I could believe in religion because of the whole we continue on in some form thing.

I try with this stuff but I find the Seth material to often be way too difficult to grasp.  I'll find myself reading the same sentence over and over again because it's just words that mean nothing.  It's very frustrating and what I need is someone to say, "look dude, this is what he's trying to say."

When I ask a question, long Seth quotes usually don't do much for me because if I understood the material that I read, I wouldn't need to ask questions. ;D

I will probably spend the rest of my life, however long or short, trying to understand Seth, pondering what I do understand, and trying to convince myself that it's actually real.
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Offline Sena

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Quote from: usmaak
I'm still more than half convinced that we get this one life and then we're worm food.
usmaak, i have to say that I am not absolutely certain about life after death. May be 90% certain.
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Offline Deb

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Great quote from Lynda. I was especially drawn to this:

Quote from: Lynda
What my inner self needs of me is trust. Trust is what I am learning in my chosen field of significance. And the more I choose trust over doubt and fear, the more my inner self and I grow into our potential.

Yes Seth can be hard to understand. When I first started reading the books I would come to something that I just couldn’t grasp (eyes would glaze over) and I would just move on. The next time or two I’d come across the same “something” I’d get more out of it, until I’d get to the wow point. To use a much overused analogy, the Seth books are like onions, many layers and the depth of understanding increases over time. But Seth is not for everyone.

There’s another author, Mike Dooley, who is a big time Seth fan and explains the concepts in simpler terms. I like his books, he narrates his own audio books, but he’s sometimes SO enthusiastic that he reminds me of a slobbering Labrador puppy (not in a bad way, just a bit much).  There are Seth workbooks and workshops, Seth guidebooks, some of the ESP class students have written books explaining the Seth materials. They all seem pretty consistent to me, or at least what I’ve read, which is encouraging. I have so many books yet to read!

As far as being convinced, it's hard for me to believe anything 100% unless I see or experience it myself. I've had experiences over the years suggesting ESP, instant downloads of knowledge from who knows where, communication after loved ones' deaths, synchronicities, some interesting ghost hunting experiences that have left me open to the idea that there is a lot more to life than we've been raised to believe. But can I say that I definitely have a entity, or probable selves, or several incarnations of myself in other lives... not really. Most of won't know this stuff here in this physical reality. But then, we're not supposed to.

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Online usmaak

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Quote from: Sena
Quote from: usmaak
I'm still more than half convinced that we get this one life and then we're worm food.
usmaak, i have to say that I am not absolutely certain about life after death. May be 90% certain.
If the Seth material is to be believed, then this life is just one of many.  Nobody ever dies for real.  When I'm feeling more confident in the material, I imagine it being like waking up from a dream, but with full recall of the dream content.
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Offline T.M.

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Hi All,

I figure either there is life after death and the gist of what Seth and others say about inner powers and etc is true; or it isnt.
If it's not true, then upon death all awareness will go away. You wont be aware of yourself, or what you thought and felt, etc. You wont miss anything,  simply because you will not be aware it ever existed.

I guess when I look at the beauty in life, simply how bodies of any type are so beautifully constructed, be it human, animal, plant, planet. All I can see is an immensely intelligent creative force or being behind it all.
Plus there's the whole energy never dies it just changes it form thing as well  :D
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Online usmaak

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Quote from: T.M.
I figure either there is life after death and the gist of what Seth and others say about inner powers and etc is true; or it isnt.
If it's not true, then upon death all awareness will go away. You wont be aware of yourself, or what you thought and felt, etc. You wont miss anything,  simply because you will not be aware it ever existed.

I try to see it that way, too.  I'd imagine that is how most atheists see the world.  Not claiming you're an atheist, just that I am.
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Offline Sena

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Quote from: T.M.
I guess when I look at the beauty in life, simply how bodies of any type are so beautifully constructed, be it human, animal, plant, planet. All I can see is an immensely intelligent creative force or being behind it all.
Plus there's the whole energy never dies it just changes it form thing as well 
T.M., that is a good way of looking at the issue of life after death. Down with the fallacy of evolution due to random mutations.

Offline T.M.

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Hi All,

Hi Sena,

I have a hard time believing evolution the way it's being taught.  Always have I guess.
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Offline leidl

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Thank you for this quote, usmaak.  I haven't read Dahl but hope to at some point.  This excerpt is my favorite part:

Quote from: usmaak
One of my gifts is my ability to pretend to leave the spacious present, and I do this for my own growth and expansion, or value fulfillment.

When I experience myself as leaving the spacious present, it sure doesn't feel like pretending.  It feels like I'm really leaving.  But of course Dahl is right.  We can't actually leave the spacious present if it is all that exists!

I also don't experience leaving/pretending to leave the present as a "gift"; I see it as something regrettable.  Nope, says Dahl...it is a gift.  Of course it is!  It is what we came here to do.  Why would we come here, where one experiences leaving the spacious present, if we didn't want precisely that experience?

I feel like some scales were just removed from my eyes. 


« Last Edit: May 12, 2021, 08:46:58 PM by leidl »
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Offline Zy

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Quote from: usmaak
I'd imagine that is how most atheists see the world.  Not claiming you're an atheist, just that I am.

Someone once asked me if I was an atheist. I replied, quite sincerely, "No. That view of the universe requires far too much faith!" Believing unreservedly that something doesn't exist is a leap of faith I was never able to take. I've always been amazed to meet someone who can do that. (Please trust that this comment is not derogatory. I appreciate the diversity. It enhances my sense of wonder!)

I would like to address my response to the subject of the English language. Please bear with me. I don't think it's off-topic. The problem with language is that it frames everything we say and think. Words are limited. I'm fairly certain other languages have their own limitations, but I don't speak them, so I'll stick to English as the language I've spoken all my life.

Elisha taught me that one of the worst problems and limitations of English is that when sentences are constructed—whether to write or speak aloud or to think, privately, in the mind—is the trouble with identity words: I, me, and mine.

There is a spectrum in the creation of verbal structures. If nothing exists, speaking words not only makes a space for something to exist, but also actually creates it. We speak identity words lightly, without thinking, as it were. They are so universally used in English that they have become invisible. We don't know what we're doing when we use them. There is a principle in Magick that says to have control over something or someone, we must know and speak their name. I won't digress into that philosophy, but consider the possibility that naming something actually evokes or invokes it. Look up the two words if you care to. They are not different existentially, but only in their dimensional degree of solidity. The point is, what is evoked or invoked becomes REAL, whether we are conscious of it or not. It is a known principle of hypnotherapy that the subconscious does not make the distinction about whether something is real or not. It accepts the existence of anything that is suggested.

So where is the problem? Identity words create selves. Or, more accurately, they create identity inside any self that happens to be listening, whether the words are spoken or simply thought. A self that already exists will have what is said or thought reinforced. A self that didn't contain what is said or thought will unknowingly make a place for the content of the words. If we do this often enough, especially automatically (without conscious choice)—and we do this all the time—we are altering our "selves" or contradicting them or steering them in a direction we're not really aware of. That becomes a problem when the unconscious direction is somewhere we don't want to go, or someone we'd rather not be.

"So what?" we might say. Perhaps in mundane life it's not a problem at all. Just a hiccup with no serious consequences. But what about in spiritual life? (If you don't like the word "spiritual," substitute "metaphysical.") What about when someone has progressed to the level where we are trying to learn from Seth or other sources beyond the ken of what our minds are used to dealing with? Poor Seth, having to use English to penetrate our minds and poor us for having to listen to and think about what he says in a language that all too easily creates, sustains, and alters identities that limit understanding of anything "beyond" what we're used to. Especially if Seth's intent is to speak to our consciousness and look for a response from the same.

Paul Twitchell, another of my former teachers, said: "The mind is an excellent slave but a very poor master." I think other teachers have said the same or something similar. But even more fascinating is something else he said: "A mind in good shape does not identify." If our identities are constantly modifying without any conscious participation or choice, how good of a shape can our minds possibly sustain?

Things automatic are very useful in the mundane world. Thank goodness we don't have to consciously remember to breathe in order to sustain our bodies with oxygen. But then, enter the other worlds. Seth's world. The beyond that haunts us and makes us wonder with widened eyes. A mind that unconsciously identifies is no longer very useful at all. In fact, it easily becomes a detriment to our eternal validity. I realize, of course, that Seth might say, "Even this is valid." But life is all about choices!

I've discovered that disassociation is a very useful tool in the spiritual or metaphysical life. That's another, immense subject, and one I've gotten in trouble espousing on other forums—psychologists and psychiatrists love to attack, often viscously, when someone "spiritual" invades their domain. Meh. So be it. But it can be very useful. We know this, right? Jane went into trance to channel Seth. She sometimes remembered it, other times not. That's disassociation. What value would there be to ignore a tool because someone else says it's dangerous? If we're not here to experiment than what are we doing?

Here are a couple experiments I've found valuable to be sure we are using English instead of being used by it. Learn to use disassociation from first person speech or thoughts. Instead of "I feel angry and depressed," say or think, "There is anger and depression." No identity there, and states of consciousness are much easier to get out of if we aren't identified with them. Another thing is to practice talking about yourself in third person. You don't have to do this where anyone else can hear you and call the men in white suits to come and get you. But catch yourself when you hear yourself say ..."

Quote from: usmaak
The problem with that is I get lost so easily and I tend to put a negative spin on things because I'm not the most positive person.  I'm still more than half convinced that we get this one life and then we're worm food.  That's a sucky way to live.  I've often said that I wished that I could believe in religion because of the whole we continue on in some form thing.

I try with this stuff but I find the Seth material to often be way too difficult to grasp.  I'll find myself reading the same sentence over and over again because it's just words that mean nothing.  It's very frustrating and what I need is someone to say, "look dude, this is what he's trying to say."

Say it in third person and it changes. At the very least it's not subjecting yourself to automatic change or the reinforcement of undesired things:

The problem is that he gets lost so easily and tends to put a negative spin on things because he's not the most positive person. He's still more than half convinced that we get this one life and then we're worm food. That's a sucky way to live. He has often said that he wished he could believe in religion because of the whole we continue on in some form thing.

He tries this stuff but finds the Seth material to often be way too difficult to grasp.  He finds himself reading the same sentence over and over again because it's just words that mean nothing.  It's very frustrating. What he needs is someone to say, "look dude, this is what Seth is trying to say."


Then, if you want to, disassociate further and say to "him": "Look dude, this is what Seth is trying to say...." And keep on speaking or thinking. Channel something new in your own words. Words you love (or at least like and can consciously support). And keep going.

After that experiment, sit back and look at what you've done. You've performed a bit of Magick. Your self is changed, if only subtly at first. Or maybe it's a big change, or will become one over time.

Quote from: usmaak
If the Seth material is to be believed, then this life is just one of many.  Nobody ever dies for real.  When I'm feeling more confident in the material, I imagine it being like waking up from a dream, but with full recall of the dream content.

Ah, usmaak, you see you are already doing this. That last thing you said is one of the most beautiful things I've ever heard. You are beautiful and much more than whatever you may have consciously or unconsciously identified with in the past. Choose your identity. It's nothing but a collection. Sort it. Take some things out that you don't love and replace them with things you do. There is no limit to what you can become.
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Online usmaak

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What value would there be to ignore a tool because someone else says it's dangerous? If we're not here to experiment than what are we doing?

According to christianity, everything about Seth is dangerous.  I've read some of the reviews on Amazon for Seth books and the one star reviews inevitably talk about demons and about being lured away from the truth.  My history and experiences with religion are peppered throughout this forum.  I won't bore you with the details yet suffice it to say, experiences when I was younger always keep me in doubt and just a tiny bit fearful of being "pulled from the path."

As far as atheism is concerned, it is the easiest thing in the world.  It's far easier to not believe in something for which you haven't ever seen a shred of proof, than it is to have faith in it.  For me, faith is one of the most difficult things in the world.

You've given me a lot to think about.  The dissociation stuff is fascinating.  I will play around with it and see what comes.

For him, faith was one of the most difficult things in the world.  Experiences he had when he was younger have always kept him in doubt and, perhaps, just a bit fearful, lest he be pulled from the path.

It's like taking my story and rewriting it in the third person.  I have always preferred third person stories.  Yeah.  I can see that being fun to work with. :)
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Offline Zy

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Quote from: usmaak
As far as atheism is concerned, it is the easiest thing in the world.  It's far easier to not believe in something for which you haven't ever seen a shred of proof, than it is to have faith in it.  For me, faith is one of the most difficult things in the world.

If I remember correctly, it was when I was in touch with Elisha in one of our communications that the subject of faith came up in this context. Elisha's focus in that session seemed to be belief systems. His viewpoint seemed to be that a belief system was a belief system and that both religion and atheism qualified. Thus what religious people believed and what atheists believed were both examples of faith.

Semantics, I know. Also I'm not sure, in retrospect, if Elisha was actually talking about faith, or if that was a word my own consciousness supplied at the time. It seems you might be saying that "faith" only applies when, as you said, no shred of proof has ever been seen? And the word would not apply to a belief that just as equally could not be proven? No QED, in either case, I think.

However, I'll take another look at this with an open mind. And if I happen to see Elisha again, maybe I'll just ask him. LOL

In "truth," I haven't seen him in years. I don't know if he is no longer transmitting on the frequency we shared, or if I just stopped listening. I do remember him saying once: "Truth is less important than what you love." Unsettling, to be sure. Humans surely screw up when the subject is love. But perhaps he was speaking of something far beyond mere human proclivities. Perhaps what Entity loves is not subject to the same "mistakes." I do not know.

Translation: He did not know. Therefore, he agreed to take another look at it.

And so it is.   :)

Offline Sena

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Quote from: Zy
Elisha taught me that one of the worst problems and limitations of English is that when sentences are constructed—whether to write or speak aloud or to think, privately, in the mind—is the trouble with identity words: I, me, and mine.
@Zy may I ask you whether Elisha's teachings differ from those of Seth and, if so, what are the differences. For instance, has Elisha taught anything similar to the Sethian concept of "entities"?

Online KylePierce

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Quote from: Zy
I do remember him saying once: "Truth is less important than what you love." Unsettling, to be sure. Humans surely screw up when the subject is love. But perhaps he was speaking of something far beyond mere human proclivities. Perhaps what Entity loves is not subject to the same "mistakes." I do not know.

@Zy, what this quote says to me is that in seeking a direction, a path, it is less important to "know" where you are going than it is to follow your heart. Of course, this sounds like a well-worn adage, and I could certainly find arguments to the contrary. But when I listen well with my heart, such arguments seem to lose significance. Jane, as Seth, speaks to my heart. This helps me to realize that an open heart is a sense organ as well as a muscle.

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Online usmaak

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Quote from: Zy
If I remember correctly, it was when I was in touch with Elisha in one of our communications that the subject of faith came up in this context. Elisha's focus in that session seemed to be belief systems. His viewpoint seemed to be that a belief system was a belief system and that both religion and atheism qualified. Thus what religious people believed and what atheists believed were both examples of faith.

I like this idea of belief systems.  Atheism is just as much a belief system as any religion.  A belief in nothing is just a different belief than a belief in something.

This makes sense to me.
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Offline Zy

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@KylePierce ... Yes. I agree.

@usmaak ... I thought, perhaps, that we were closer to being on the same page than not. I think we have a lot in common.

@Sena ...

Quote from: Sena
@Zy may I ask you whether Elisha's teachings differ from those of Seth and, if so, what are the differences. For instance, has Elisha taught anything similar to the Sethian concept of "entities"?

In 10 words or less ... hahaha, I wouldn't even try that challenge!

The teachings in Source seem to be the same. The actual words that were channeled were quite different. This is what makes me skeptical of words. I believe more in where the words come from than the words themselves. For me, "Source" is a Sound. I learned about the Sound when I was a member of Eckankar for 20 years. They called it the "Voice of God" and acknowledged a lengthy list of names for it that other religions had. When Elisha first came into my life, he prepared me to work with him. I find similarities when I read about Seth preparing Jane for the highly developed skill they had in synastry. Were the words Jane channeled only Seth's words? Or were they something Seth transmitted into her gestalt that turned into words as they hit the mark? For me, it was the latter. I can always hear the Sound when I listen. But when Elisha wanted to speak to me, the Sound would intensify in proportion to how urgently he was trying to make contact. I admit that sometimes I was busy with other things and slightly annoyed with the process. But the intensity was too much to bear. It literally ROARED inside my head. I could hold back for a time, but I always had to finally surrender and let him speak. That process felt similar to what I've already described. Elements of the Sound, pitch and intensity, would strike me inside. The "target" was my 3rd eye. When the target was hit and I was in a space to "allow it," the undifferentiated Sound turned into words that seemed to come from nowhere. Yet I could always recognize when it was Elisha. The words, however, came through my own consciousness. My brain was the only physical machinery being used. So I would have trouble claiming the words were exclusively "his." They were a product of what he was doing and what I was doing as a result of an experience in the Sound. When my mind would gyrate with questions about this, Elisha seemed to think it rather funny. He never addressed it directly. I could, however, feel his personality, his laughter, and "see" a certain squint of mirth in his eyes.

Elisha's focus was different from Seth, which makes me think they were both teachers with a similar background. Only Elisha's self-chosen mission was to teach what he wanted to teach. He was sometimes responsive to questions, but it was rare. What came from him was a huge gush of energy. It was all I could do to get the words down on paper. (I didn't have a Rob to assist me! I used to be so envious of Jane that she DID have Rob.)

I'll try to answer your very specific question about Entity. Elisha was more concerned with teaching me about identity than who or what I am or who and what he is. The closest he came to such things was when he talked about cascading images and something he called Soul Families. He showed me that though the particular "Zy" I am was unique and would be preserved as long as I chose to preserve it, there were thousands—perhaps millions—of Zys in the quantum universe. Images, he said, are collectors. We collect things. In the human machine, we write what we collect in the neuropathways of our brains. Each image has it's own, unique, "energy signature." This became important in the next stage of his teachings and the experiments he led me to.

But before the thought escapes me, I'll say that what he showed me made it very clear that no matter how many "Zys" there were at any particular moment or where they might be located, they were all in a process of emerging from and returning to their "Soul Family." This looked like a great wave of light whenever I could see it. (In this body, I am more auditory than visual, if you're familiar with NLP terms.) I think, perhaps, that he was referring to Entity when he mentioned "Soul Family." But that's as close as the words ever came to a comparison.

He was more concerned with the identities we would collect and how it would affect our freedom. He had no patience for what he called an "obsolete identity." An identity that can't. "If you can't do something you want or need to do, perhaps it's time to become someone else who CAN." And there the main thrust of his teachings would emerge.

An identity that was becoming obsolete could still be sorted, i.e., I would examine the image that was me and know what I loved, and was free to "invite" all the Zys that didn't agree with me to move on to other cascading pictures. I could also reach out to other Zys that were more in harmony with what I loved and invite them into the collection that was "me"—my identity, I suppose you could say.

But humans do not always progress on their paths. In fact, they more often digress or move backwards, away from what they love and what is good for their survival. One can watch one's own or someone else's speech and thought patterns to see how often the word can't crops up, to know the degree of obsolescence they are identified with. Elisha said that the speed at which consciousness unfolds was once much slower than it is today. And that this "speed" would only increase as our species continued. Thus, where long ago it worked to have only one incarnation in a particular body, it wasn't working so well today.

So he taught me about "serial reincarnation in the same body." He names a process he calls a Quantum Identity Shift (QIS). It is a much more complete change than a sort. It becomes necessary when the "privileged image"—a term my consciousness probably borrowed from my Eckankar years—was so obsolete that further growth and unfoldment was impossible. This is marked not only by the use of the word can't but by an accompanying depth of depression and an awareness of a small, lost voice inside that says, "I want to die."

This was NOT a suicidal thought, according to Elisha. Quite the opposite, it was an image realizing it's predicament of being hopelessly trapped inside an identity that is completely obsolete, and crying out, telling the truth, hoping someone or some part of self would hear and tell it what to do. It was 100% a metaphysical crisis, having nothing to do with the physical body.

This happened to me in the late 1990s when I lost my lover. We had been together for 13 wonderful years. In my case, the voice didn't say it wanted to die, but cried out in fear that it realized it WAS dying and didn't know if this was okay or what to do about it. It wrote a poem about the devastation of loss, a key line of which was:

What do you do when you outlive something
you cannot live without?

I was also working with another entity I had met as a "guide" in a hypnotherapy session. Her name was Shanticlera. She was much more gentle than Elisha and I think he was glad she was with me to teach me in a way he probably could not match. But they were both working on the same wavelength. When I first met Shanticlera, the hypnotherapist who put me into trance told me to ask if Shanticlera had a gift for me. She did. It was a small ball of energy. I was instructed to put it into my body somewhere I could keep it for a while. I put it in my upper-left shoulder. It was warm and alive. But I had no idea what it was.

My hypnotherapist instructed me to ask Shanticlera how the gift was to be used. Shanticlera said:

When the Moon is gone and the sky is dark,
think of me.
I am the richness of your Soul.

I wept as the hypnotherapist gently brought me out of trance and back into a waking state of consciousness. I had begun to experience a tremendous catharsis.

All this happened before my lover departed. So that, after the tragedy, when that small voice emerged, asking what to do, I was suddenly aware of Shanticlera with me again in my room. I was lying on a futon and also noticed the "gift" in my left shoulder had begun to glow, then burn with an almost painful light. It then emerged and expanded throughout my body. Shanticlera coached me on how to "die," which, she said, was like returning "home" and receiving a huge, warm hug from the universe. Entity is what I now think that was. "I" left the body and the image I was never returned. I became something new. I had "reincarnated" a new image of myself and it filled every cell and molecule of my body. I was entirely new and entirely free from the ravages of obsolete identity.

Shanticlera never explained any of this to me. She didn't have to. She was the one that was THERE every second, guiding me through the process. It was Elisha who later explained I had had a QIS. I spent months channeling Elisha into eight hand-written journals. It was all about the QIS: what it meant, what it implied, what new challenges I would face and how to face them.

The experience was very like the phenomena of "walk ins" that was popularized by Ruth Montgomery in her book Strangers Among Us in 1979 (Wikipedia). With one important difference. I knew I was not the same image or soul I had been before. But this "newly incarnated me" was still a Zy. I was the same Entity in a larger sense, of the same "Soul Family." And yet I was free of the limitations that were the consequence of the obsolete identity of my former self (image). There was no comparison of the two. We might as well have been "strangers" to each other. And yet, we were also One. It's not an easy thing for a human brain to process and understand.

I hope that answers your question. I could go on and on about it, but I realize I'm far too verbose and should probably take a break now (as Seth often suggested Jane and Rob should do!)

::chuckle::
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Offline Sena

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Quote from: Zy
Shanticlera coached me on how to "die," which, she said, was like returning "home" and receiving a huge, warm hug from the universe. Entity is what I now think that was. "I" left the body and the image I was never returned. I became something new. I had "reincarnated" a new image of myself and it filled every cell and molecule of my body. I was entirely new and entirely free from the ravages of obsolete identity.
@Zy thanks for your extremely interesting post.
The nearest parallel to your experience in the Seth books that I can think of is the so-called "York Beach episode" which illustrates "fragment personalities":

"In late 1963, some months before our sessions began, we’d taken a vacation in York Beach, Maine, hoping that a change of environment would improve Rob’s health. The doctor didn’t know what was wrong with his back and suggested that he spend some time under traction in the hospital. Instead we decided that his reaction to stress was at least partially responsible, hence the trip. On the night in question we went to a nightclub in search of a festive atmosphere. Rob was in constant pain, and though he didn’t complain, he couldn’t hide the sudden spasms. Then I noticed an older couple sitting across the room from us. They really frightened me by their uncanny resemblance to Rob and myself. Did we look like that—aloof, bitter—only younger? I couldn’t take my eyes off them, and finally I pointed them out to Rob. Rob looked over at the couple and groaned with another back spasm. Then something happened that neither of us had been able to explain. To my complete amazement Rob stood up, grabbed my arm, and insisted that we dance. A minute earlier, he’d hardly been able to walk. I just stared at him. We hadn’t danced together in the eight years of our marriage, and the band was playing a twist, with which we were entirely unfamiliar at the time. Moreover, Rob wouldn’t take no for an answer. I was afraid of making a fool of myself, but Rob dragged me out on the dance floor. We danced for the rest of the evening, and from that point on his physical condition improved remarkably. His whole outlook on life seemed brighter as of that moment. Now Seth was saying, “Looking back, you can say that the effect was therapeutic, but if you had subconsciously accepted the images, it would have marked the beginning of a severe deterioration for you both, personally and creatively. Again, the images marked the critical culmination of your destructive energies. The fact that the images were of yourselves shows that your destructive energies were turned inward, even though materialized in physical form. “Your dancing represented the first move away from what those images meant, and violent action was the best thing under the circumstances … a subtle transformation could have taken place in which you and Jane transferred the bulk of your personalities into the fragments you had yourselves created … and from their eyes watched yourselves across the room. In this case your present dominant personalities would no longer be dominant.” During a break Rob told me what Seth had said about the images. Neither of us had ever heard about thought-forms then, and the whole thing sounded incredible to me. And yet, I thought, psychologists talk about projection and transference by which we project our fears outward to another person or object and then react to them." (from "The Seth Material" by Jane Roberts, Chapter 2)

https://amzn.eu/7JKVsGt
« Last Edit: May 14, 2021, 03:10:31 AM by Sena »
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Offline Deb

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Quote from: Zy
In 10 words or less ... hahaha, I wouldn't even try that challenge!

Zy, sorry for the delay. As you know I was in the process of responding a couple of days ago and got pulled away. I feel like I have a high maintenance life. But of course that's by design, I need to be busy. It's all in the name.

Wow, that was amazing, thank you for sharing! I admit it looked long when I first saw your post, but I soaked it all in and could have read more.

How fortunate you are to have had a conscious connection to these personalities! It does fit in with the Seth teachings, which I find comforting. I've spent the majority of my life looking for, well, the nature of reality and Seth was the only thing that I truly resonated with me deep down. I suppose you will reconnect with them when you want or need them to.

Amazing information on QIS. I've often looked back at the different "mes" I've been during different times in my life, in retrospect they feel like different incarnations during one lifetime. But your experience was a dramatic and complete change, where realize mine were just shifts in role-based identity. Many years ago (before finding Seth), I'd attended a women's spiritual workshop in Sandia. The one exercise that really impressed me was, one at a time, we stood in front of the group and answered the question "who are you?" People would say, my name is [blank] and "I'm a wife and mother," "I'm an accountant," "I'm an artist," "I'm a 40 year old women" and so on. After listening to a few of these I realized the exercise was not about roles, it was about the inner self that's constant regardless of what we identify with, which is always changing. What an ah-ha moment that we each realized on our own.

So with your not being the same soul you had been before, that tells me are a new incarnation, with a new soul identity (or frequency, as I think of it). As opposed to maybe switching tracks over to a different probable self. I wonder how often that happens. And you retain the memories of the other you. That's close to entity privileges.

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Online usmaak

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Quote from: Deb
I've often looked back at the different "mes" I've been during different times in my life, in retrospect they feel like different incarnations during one lifetime.

This is great.  When people say, "I was a different person back then," how right they are.  I feel like I've lived several different lives in my time here.  When I think back to, say, my life in college before graduating, it feels like a completely different person lived that life.  My current "incarnation", if you will, is me living in Colorado.  I've been here seven years and my life in Illinois before this feels like it was lived by someone else entirely.  I know that it's actually this one life, but it's different chapters of the same life.
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Offline leidl

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Zy, thank you for this fascinating post. 

Quote from: Zy
The teachings in Source seem to be the same. The actual words that were channeled were quite different. This is what makes me skeptical of words. I believe more in where the words come from than the words themselves.

Agreed!  This issue with language is what spiritual teachers are talking about when they remind us the words are only pointers; we are not to fixate on the words themselves, because they cannot hit the mark.  When poets hit the mark, or nearly hit it, I think it is the silence between the words, or the trajectory created by the words, that produce the sense of truth, rather than the words themselves. 


Quote from: Zy
He had no patience for what he called an "obsolete identity." An identity that can't. "If you can't do something you want or need to do, perhaps it's time to become someone else who CAN."

I'm really intrigued by Elisha's idea of an obsolete identity.  It has become obvious to me in the past few months that part of my identity is becoming obsolete.  I didn't have the word "obsolete" to describe this until now, though, so thank you to you and Elisha.  Language isn't perfect, but the word obsolete is as close as it needs to be.  I find Elisha's impatience a little anxiety-inducing, though.  I hope my guide isn't the sort that wants to hurl me off a cliff so that I will learn that I can grow wings.  I need to contemplate change at length, from a thousand angles.  (Guides?  Are you listening??)

Quote from: Zy
It was 100% a metaphysical crisis, having nothing to do with the physical body.


I find your confidence about the crisis being 100% physical interesting.  It may well be true, but I am reminded of Seth talking about how cancer is often the result of a psyche's thwarted need for expansion.  In your case, you did not thwart it, and thus it didn't become a physical issue.  In the past, I thwarted needed expansion once.  A serious cancer followed.  In the sense in which cause and effect exist, I suspect there was a link between the two.  I hope to keep the current issue a purely metaphysical one.   ;)

Quote from: Zy
I am was unique and would be preserved as long as I chose to preserve it,

Yes.  Words are doing quite well here again, considering their limits.  The eastern traditions tend to over-emphasize the lack of continuity of the self, and then Seth/Jane perhaps over-corrected a bit, at least at times, but Elisha's/your words here really hit the sweet spot, I think. 


Quote from: Zy
I was free of the limitations that were the consequence of the obsolete identity of my former self (image). There was no comparison of the two. We might as well have been "strangers" to each other. And yet, we were also One.

Really interesting.  Contemplating this gives me a super-alive feeling all over my body.   

Thank you for your thought-provoking posts, Zy.  :)
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Online KylePierce

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Quote from: Zy
Images, he said, are collectors. We collect things. In the human machine, we write what we collect in the neuropathways of our brains. Each image has its own, unique, "energy signature."

Zy, this is excellent food for thought and I'm still digesting it. So, we can have a self-image, or for that matter, an image of someone else, and we collect “evidence” to substantiate that image. Even so, that image may lose its vitality and become an empty husk. Please tell me if this is not your meaning of image, but in my life, this has happened a few times for sure, and I may be in the middle of a QIS of my own. My recent re-entry into the world of Seth/Jane is one part of that.

One theme that has reappeared time and again in my life concerns a conflict between the skeptical intellect and the mystical heart-mind. At each stage of my life, it takes on a different form, and the balance of power seems to shift. This is the closest I can come to something like QIS. In 2002, I wrote an unsingable song with this chorus:

There is a place where
we are bound together;
there is a time when
we have to lose our doubt.
Inside the World's heart,
there is a hot Sun
and a cold Moon
that wants to snuff it out.


This writing marks the time of a significant shift in my sense of identity toward an inner path, away from an oppressive situation. It's also the first hint of an inner voice that I couldn't identify as far as its source, but clearly that "there's someone in my head, but it's not me" (old Pink Floyd song). This voice felt close, not distant. I was unsure what to think of it. In the field of archetypal psychology, this is the voice of one's personal daimon.

The concept of a personal daimon is at least as old as ancient Greece. For Plato, it was a spiritual being who watches over each individual, and is tantamount to a higher self, or an angel. Here are quotes from findingseth.com on the higher self:

"You, as you know yourself, will not grow into this quote “higher” self. This higher self and you exist simultaneously. And yet the abilities and knowledge of this “higher” self can become part of your own conscious knowledge through the psychological bridge of which I have spoken."
—TES9 Session 501 September 17, 1969

"[...] The portion of yourself that you think of as a higher self exists now only awaiting your recognition and while it seems to you that you are looking for it I tell you again it is within, and it is within the self that you already know."
—TECS2 ESP Class Session, October 27, 1970

I think of Erst mostly as a personification of my higher self. Whatever he is, he has been able to transmit knowledge that was otherwise unknown and unavailable to me. Maybe I don’t need to go beyond that to have an adequate grasp of his meaning in my life. That is the limit of my experience, at least.
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Offline Zy

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Hello Everyone,

Sorry I sort of disappeared after my last couple of posts. I'm back. And I'm still "me" ... I think! LOL

Quote from: Deb
So with your not being the same soul you had been before, that tells me are a new incarnation, with a new soul identity (or frequency, as I think of it). As opposed to maybe switching tracks over to a different probable self. I wonder how often that happens. And you retain the memories of the other you. That's close to entity privileges.

@Deb It's an interesting study about retaining the memories of another identity, soul, or whatever you want to call it. Elisha spoke of each one having its own unique energy signature, or frequency, wavelength—something to that effect—and that the brain used that energy signature when writing memories in its neural pathways. What I've found is there there are greater and lesser differences in the QISes. The one I'm in now—the "Zy" I am today—has an energy signature similar to some of my past "selves" and is starkly different from a few of the others. The greater the difference, the more difficult it is to retain or recall the memories. I would assume that it's all there, somewhere, but I'm not sure "where" they are and cannot easily access them all.

Elisha also once told me that "memory is not all it's hyped up to be" and suggested I learn to channel instead. I wasn't sure if he was joking with me or not.

@usmaak Ah ... Colorado. I've been here for 32 years. I'll never forget the moment I stepped off the plane and felt Colorado under my feet for the first time. I understood John Denver's lyrics "coming home to a place I'd never been before." It wasn't just a poignant poetic metaphor. It was the truth!

Quote from: leidl
I find Elisha's impatience a little anxiety-inducing, though.  I hope my guide isn't the sort that wants to hurl me off a cliff so that I will learn that I can grow wings.

@leidl You are so precious! Elisha was pretty harsh sometimes. I told my mom once that he could be as cold as space between the stars. Maybe it's why I gravitated more to Shanticlera as the years went by. I think we are all free to choose guides whose words sing to us the sweetest and most clearly.

Quote from: KylePierce
So, we can have a self-image, or for that matter, an image of someone else, and we collect “evidence” to substantiate that image.

@KylePierce What you're speaking of here sounds more like what Elisha called a collection but not so much what he meant when he spoke of an image as the collector.

Quote from: KylePierce
Even so, that image may lose its vitality and become an empty husk. Please tell me if this is not your meaning of image....

Words can be so frustrating sometimes. I think an identity is something that happens when a nonphysical image enters into, and, to some extent, combines with the physical body or mind. The process of collecting begins and we store the collections in the mind, or brain—not sure about the relationship of those two things. I think on a rudimentary level the tendency is to collect what can be relied upon as evidence to substantiate beliefs we are forming. But on a higher level, I think we realize the futility of beliefs and change our M.O. to collecting what we love.

I prefer to think of identity as what becomes more of an empty husk as it tends towards obsolescence. Image, in the sense Elisha and I used it when communicating with each other, was something else. Naming a unit of awareness that came from somewhere and eventually returns from which it came. (Or perhaps it never left, but the projection sure feels like it has a separation sometimes.) I have wondered if what Elisha called an image was similar to what Seth called a fragment, but I hesitate to assert that until I study Seth more thoroughly.

Quote from: KylePierce
I may be in the middle of a QIS of my own. My recent re-entry into the world of Seth/Jane is one part of that.

My own recent re-entry into the world of Seth/Jane is also part of that. As is my discovery of this forum, which already feels like a family to me. Family is something I have missed during my long, solitary years. It's good to find a home.
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