Author Topic: The 'watching the news' dilemma  (Read 19392 times)

Offline Deb

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I've struggled for a long time with keeping up with the news. No secret here: it's always focused on the negative. Back in the days of newspapers, I'd go through phases where I'd cancel my paper delivery because I just couldn't stand to read any more bad news.

Several years ago I listened to an audio book by medical intuitive Caroline Myss. She really got down on those of us who were too sensitive to put up with the barrage of bad news. Basically what she said was, "How do you expect to be able to do any good in the world if you don't have the guts to face the negative things." That's putting what she said in a kindly way, she was really brutal in her delivery. And it stuck with me.

I've often wondered what Seth had to say about the subject of following the news, and the past couple of weeks some quotes came up on Facebook that I think are helpful.

Here we go:

From Barry Gellis (one of the original NY boys) on Facebook, 02/21/16:

As I see it, one of the major misunderstandings concerning Seth, is the idea that you have to watch what you watch, watching the news bad, don't think about the negative, etc etc etc. The misunderstanding is that you shouldn't OBSESS on the the negative, but AWARENESS is a good thing.

Its very similar to eating--it's not WHAT you see on the news--but what you are thinking--it's your mindset. IF you view it in creative, learning ways that stimulates your love and compassion...that would be helpful to you and the world. IF you view it with fear and obsession--that would not be helpful.

Here is Seth more directly discussing this issue:

Seth (Session 889): Rob Asks: ("What do you think of my remarks about watching the news on television every day?")

Seth Responds: “It makes little difference whether you watch the news or not —but it makes all the difference in the world what you think of world events.

“The perspective from which you watch world events is vital, and it is true that communication now brings to the conscious mind a far greater barrage than before. But it is also a barrage that makes man see his own activities, and even with the growth of the new nationalism in the Third World, those nations begin from a new perspective, in which the eyes of the world are indeed upon them.

“Your country faces the results of its own policies—its greed as well as its good intent, but it is out in the open in a new way. The world will be seen as one, but there may be changes in the overall tax assessments along the way, as those who have not paid much, pay more.

“The results of fanaticism are also out in the open. Never before, in your terms, has the private person been able to see a picture of the mass world in such a way, or been forced to identify with the policies of his or her government. That in itself is a creative achievement, and means that man is not closing his eyes to the inequities of his world. The world will be seen as one, but there may be changes in the overall tax assessments along the way, as those who have not paid much, pay more."

Then this, from Seth Australia Network on FB, 03/03/16:

"You are meant to deal with your immediate, primary experience, and in so doing you take care of YOUR responsibility. You are able to take action in your own experience, and therefore affect others. You do not have to be ignorant of wars in other corners of the world, or close your eyes. But if you allow those experiences to overcloud your present, valid intersection with reality, then you speak and act from a position not your own, and deny the world whatever benefits your own present version of reality might allow you to give.

"The natural creature-validity of your senses must remain clear, and only then can you take full advantage of those intuitions and visions that must come through your own private intersection with space and time."

~ Seth (Jane Roberts), 'Nature of the Psyche', Session 799.


John Sorensen

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If I want to watch a horror story, then I just watch a horror film. There is more "truth" in fiction than what is called commercial "news".


I can save some time and tell you tomorrows news today:


*Some bad shit happened somewhere in the world. Here's the photos or videos to make you feel sick while you eat dinner.
*Some sports star scored a goal /  punched / raped somebody.
*Here's some bad shit that happened locally.
*Here are some numbers about the stock exchange which you won't understand unless you follow that sort of thing.
*Here's a kitten somebody rescued from a well.
THE END

Offline BethAnne

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It  recently dawned on me that I'm at an age that I went from NO TV to an overdose of media.  Sometimes I have to adjust my mind around that.  Or consider where my granddaughter's mind is at for someone who has had a phone since she was 4.    Which reality is more real?  Hers or mine?
 
I have to remind my mother that just because she sees all this disaster doesn't make the world a disasterous place.  Just because you instantly get information from around the world...and that you have to factor in the agenda of Rupert Murdock's control over most of the media outlets.
 
One has to think for themselves.

Offline Wren

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The problem is that the news can become a low-level, ever persistent stream of unhappiness and horror, even when consciously trying to avoid it. Catching a bad headline on a newspaper, hearing a snippet of bad news when changing TV channels, overhearing people's conversations - it seems to be always there, in the background like a weird hum. I don't buy a newspaper regularly but in my job I see some of them on a daily basis and although there are some bright spots to be found on the page (beautiful photography, interesting discoveries, funny articles) most of it is doom and gloom. If you are attempting to keep your vibration high, in a Abe-Hicks kind of way, why would you consciously seek out such stuff?


Offline LenKop

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I don't watch much news, but like most things, you'll find value in it if you look at it through a creative perspective.

I find it a great test of my perception. If I feel like I'm getting sucked into the doom and gloom, I take a mental step back. It helps me recall my fundamental beliefs about the situation. Am I angry? Compassionate? Detached? Laughing?

For me, these days I mostly see past the gloom and sense the larger movement that advertising is playing behind the scenes. Unfortunately even a lot of the internet is turning to marketing and business. Some of my favourite sites are now peppered with pop-ups selling anything that can make me rich, or make me healthy.

Its one of the reasons I like forums such as these.

LK

John Sorensen

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Hi Len, if you want to be poor and miserable. I have just the product for you. It only costs 4 x payments of $99.95!

Offline LenKop

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Thanks John, but can we spread the payments out a bit more, I really want to extend the misery... ;D lol

LK



Offline Wren

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The BBC news on the radio was so bad last night, one horrible story after another, with nothing positive at all, that I had to keep turning it off. I gave up listening to it in the end. I am so glad that I'm not reading out it each day!  :o

Offline Deb

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I gave up listening to it in the end.

I think that's probably the best tactic.
I've given up on the news. I figure there's not much I can do about it, and if it's that important I'll hear about it anyway. It's a drain, mental, physical, spiritual.



Offline Wren

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You're right Deb, not a lot we can do about it and it saps any happiness or optimism out of you.  :'(

The irony is that straight after the depressing 6pm news bulletin each weekday there's something much lighter like a comedy show or panel game. This might just be the usual slot for humour or perhaps the BBC recognises that people need cheering up after the daily horror show.

Offline BethAnne

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I do feel we need to be aware of the Big Picture.  But also that media today is SO orchestrated towards someone else's agenda.  Hypnotic frequencies are often used.  The News is used to make people controllable. 
 
I would rely on John Stewart.  :)  Lately I've been following TYT, The Young Turks and Bill Maher on the net.  Or Joe Rogan's podcasts.  Political comics like Bill Burr.  Tho I think Burr is a dick about women.  None of these are gonna keep me up on the news, but help give insight into the agenda behind the news.  That Rupert Murdock owns most of the media is scary.  In a book by Dominick Dunn he wrote about going to Hollywood Pool Parties back in the day where he went up to Ronald Reagan and asked him if he wanted to be president.  At that time Reagan was the big Feel Good Spokesperson for laundry soap.  He was a "brand" people trusted.  Perfect for the Mask of President.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2015/06/11/what-rupert-murdoch-owns/71089066/
 
Russel Brans's "Trews"
http://www.russellbrandtrews.com/
« Last Edit: March 10, 2016, 10:05:34 AM by BethAnne »

John Sorensen

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I gave up listening to it in the end.

I think that's probably the best tactic.
I've given up on the news. I figure there's not much I can do about it, and if it's that important I'll hear about it anyway. It's a drain, mental, physical, spiritual.




One of favourite quotes from Wayne Dyer is when he talked about not watching TV or news. "If it gets bad enough out there somebody will find you and tell you. They'll call you. You won't miss out!"

John Sorensen

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The BBC news on the radio was so bad last night, one horrible story after another, with nothing positive at all, that I had to keep turning it off. I gave up listening to it in the end. I am so glad that I'm not reading out it each day!  :o

I forgot to mention earlier that in my whole life even from when I was a kid I never watched or wanted to watch "news" I've seen bits sure, like growing up maybe it was on in the background.
But I never cared for it, never paid attention to it etc.
The whole frequency or feeling is just off to me. Watching any commercial news just makes me feel like I'm acting a play of Orwell's 1984.

Offline BethAnne

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"If it gets bad enough out there somebody will find you and tell you. They'll call you. You won't miss out!"
 
 ;D

Offline Dandelion

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I periodically cut myself off from the news when it starts affecting me more than I like.  I don't feel like I miss out on anything when I don't follow the news, but I still end up slowly getting back into watching it on a regular basis.  Maybe it's just an old habit because it used to be important to me to feel like I was keeping up with all the latest news.  Now, I suspect I would be better off and make more progress if I simply stopped and let all those old ideas go because they all seem to revolve around the universe being an unsafe place where one has to constantly be on guard and protect oneself, so one needs the "knowledge" that the news provides.

Offline BethAnne

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Now, I suspect I would be better off and make more progress if I simply stopped ;)

I haven't had tv for a couple years and feel much more "alive".  With the net you can pretty much find any documentary on anything you are interested.  While 99% of everything on TV is distorted or distracting.    I usually catch my friend watching news when I stop in for a chat which is usually once a month.  Even in that short amount of time I am amazed how insane the news has gotten in such a short time.  Watching US politics being spun is scary.  I don't think I add anything positive by swirling that bs around my brain/soul.

Offline Dandelion

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I thought I had recently read something Seth said about watching the news but when I tried to find it again, all I found were these comments he made about living in a safe universe.  He was talking about Jane making the leap into a safe universe (and Rob needing to) and leaving behind the unsafe universe ("that reality").

"That reality exists, but it is not yours any longer.  It is not one of your favorite stations.  You are, therefore, tuning into another channel, experiencing a reality that is not only quite as real, but presents a far truer picture.  It is as if you were standing on a hilltop, surrounded by clear brilliant air.  You could still look down at the foggy valley below, and see that it existed.  You would also realize that you were not down there anymore.

You need not pretend that the foggy valley does not exist.  You would be equally foolish to pretend that you were there, or to go about with a raincoat and umbrella underneath the clear highland skies and warm sun."   (quoted from Personal Sessions #3, pg 158)

I must have connected these comments to the "watching the news" dilemma I was working on, as I had (once again) stopped watching it because it was depressing me.  Other remarks Seth made in that part of the book were about not equivocating, either you live in a safe universe or you don't.  I admit I'm being a fence sitter right now.  But I am expanding my understanding of all the different ways the belief that the universe is unsafe is being supported and maintained by the official line of consciousness.  Moreover, it obviously no longer works to people's benefit (if it ever did).   Interestingly, people feel that "the country is going in the wrong direction."  But they still keep doing the same thing, or even worse, they try to go backward to reclaim the imaginary "good old days."

Offline Deb

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Quote from: Dandelion
I thought I had recently read something Seth said about watching the news but when I tried to find it again, all I found were these comments he made about living in a safe universe.

It wasn't one of the quotes in the first post on page 1 of this topic?

I like his quotes you added. He's basically saying we don't have to close our eyes to current events, but we should also not lose our perspective and keep our own current circumstances apart from what is happening elsewhere. Keeps us moving ahead. Remain objective and not get sucked in. To me it's like watching all the overly sentimental commercials for various charities, you just can't fix everything and things are not aways what they appear, especially where the media is concerned.

I haven't really watched the news for quite some time--and nothing has happened other than the fact that I feel better.



Offline LenKop

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Anyone who tells you you're missing out if you don't watch the news, or keep up on current affairs, is so brainwashed I would regard any advice they gave as suspicious.

Nothing changes. 35 years ago all I saw on the news, as a kid, was Beirut and Lebanon, with tanks and terrorists. Now its Syria. Look at the political circus going on in any country, at any time, nothing changes there either.

Create your own news, your own economy and your own drama, they way you want it.

LK

Offline Dandelion

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Quote from: Deb
It wasn't one of the quotes in the first post on page 1 of this topic?
The quote I was looking for wasn't from this topic, although it could have been posted elsewhere on this message board or on the Internet.  It was very similar in meaning to the quote that I did find. 

Here are a couple more quotes from Personal Sessions #3, Deleted Session Jan 10, 1977, page 231, that apply to this topic, although the session itself is dealing with a different dilemma.

"World events such as those you read about in your newspaper are the result of conventional ideas and beliefs--those with which you were reared.  They will always form part of the fabric of your existence in this life.  There are no reasons, however, why they should predominate."

"The general world level of consciousness can serve as a springboard, so that you use it as a base only while the intimate webwork of your own psychological reality uses finer creative levels of consciousness."

This session was particularly meaningful to me, especially the first part of it.  It dealt with the conflicts created by Jane and Rob pursuing creativity and profound questions of consciousness while trying to deal with the practical consideration of making a living.


Offline barrie

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Watching the news is not a problem. Thinking about problems is not a problem. It is when people obsess on problems, that it may become a problem. Obsessing is quite different than reflecting on or thinking about:

Seth (Session 889): Rob Asks: ("What do you think of my remarks about watching the news on television every day?")

Seth Responds: “It makes little difference whether you watch the news or not —but it makes all the difference in the world what you think of world events.

“The perspective from which you watch world events is vital, and it is true that communication now brings to the conscious mind a far greater barrage than before. But it is also a barrage that makes man see his own activities, and even with the growth of the new nationalism in the Third World, those nations begin from a new perspective, in which the eyes of the world are in¬deed upon them.

“Your country faces the results of its own policies—its greed as well as its good intent, but it is out in the open in a new way. The world will be seen as one, but there may be changes in the overall tax assessments along the way, as those who have not paid much, pay more.

“The results of fanaticism are also out in the open. Never be¬fore, in your terms, has the private person been able to see a picture of the mass world in such a way, or been forced to iden¬tify with the policies of his or her government. That in itself is a creative achievement, and means that man is not closing his eyes to the inequities of his world.”


Seth (ESP Class, 7-21-70): Student T: “In the back of your mind you think a negative thought, then say, ‘Oops, this is wrong’ and try to change it. I don’t think it is so easy.”

Seth Responds:  "A negative thought alone would be followed by a more positive one. Remember what you were saying earlier about cycles. Thought patterns and emotional patterns, left alone, would change one into the other as stormy weather changes into sunny. It is only when strong negative patterns are allowed to flow unrestrained and indulged in so that they become a barrier holding back positive thoughts that you run into difficulty. You get into a habit and you do not realize that you have done so, where predominately your thoughts about yourselves and others are all negative with very few positive ones in between and then the positive ones have no chance to grow. This is where the difficulty comes in. I am not telling you to be so frightened of a negative thought that you want to run into a corner or hide under the bed or say “Oh, this is a negative thought; I must change it at once” and half terrify yourselves to death. I am telling you that when you indulge in such thoughts for a period of time so that they become habitual then you must change them and no one can do this but yourself. There is no one else that has control over your own thought patterns and you would be very upset, indeed, if anyone else did."

Student B:  “A problem is a negative thing.”

Seth Responds: "A problem need not be negative. A problem is a challenge. It is only negative when you look at it in that aspect. A problem is usually the opportunity for change, growth and development. Now, your chatter was much more bubbling than mine. I want to make sure the bubbling quality continues, however, and that is why I am speaking along these terms tonight."

Seth (ESP Class, 1-16-73): Transcript Narration: "Class discussion returned to emotions, beliefs, and thoughts. Larry remarked that thoughts can kick people."

Seth interjected: "And they would kick you merrily back. If you kicked them more often, you would not need bombs - any of you.

"If you spontaneously let out your hostility when you felt it, you would not have this super charge that you felt you must throw out or be damned. It would not be so heavy on your head (to Larry), or any of your heads. The problem is not what you think of as your negative thoughts, but your fear of them. Now, let us continue and see where you lead yourself."

Transcript Narration: "Carlos wondered if the same thing applied to suppressing affection as well as anger.

Seth: "Once you begin suppressing, you suppress all emotions to some degree, and set up barriers because you are afraid of the reality of yourself. If you cannot express anger, you cannot express love. Not only that, but you get the two confused."

« Last Edit: June 06, 2016, 02:30:34 AM by barrie »

Offline BethAnne

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Seth Responds: "A problem need not be negative. A problem is a challenge. It is only negative when you look at it in that aspect. A problem is usually the opportunity for change, growth and development.
This could also go on the "evil" thread>
 :)

Offline Dandelion

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While looking for something else, I ran across the bit I wanted to quote but couldn't find.  It's from PS#3, pg 215.  It's basically saying the same thing as the other quote, but in a different way.

"You are not threatened.  You do live in a safe universe.  You do.  You need not believe that the world of the newspapers does not exist, but you must believe that the world cannot threaten you.

By such a belief you so attract probabilities that you actually miss the threats that appear at one level of reality.  In so doing you not only help yourself but others as well, for they perceive your safety, and look for the reasons.  The sea is dangerous if you are in the middle of the ocean without a boat.  If you are on a fine liner, however, with all conveniences, then the ocean becomes an enjoyable adventure.

Traveling from one shore of it to another becomes a vast learning adventure, in which both sea and sky are observed in all of their moods and nuances while you are safely ensconced all of the while.  You would not help anyone by jumping off of the liner to see whether or not the ocean was in fact dangerous without a boat.  Instead you would show others how to board the craft."

Offline Deb

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Quote from: Dandelion
Traveling from one shore of it to another becomes a vast learning adventure, in which both sea and sky are observed in all of their moods and nuances while you are safely ensconced all of the while.

Thank you for finding this quote. Today it really has a lot of meaning for me with respect to my current traveling. I've never traveled outside the US alone and certainly have not traveled alone for this amount of time (2.5 weeks). A lot of acquaintances have made somewhat pompous comments to me about my being "brave" to do this (like no one has ever done it before :) ). The trip has been amazing. I've met so many friendly, helpful people. Connected with others I'd never have even met if I wasn't traveling alone; made some new, possibly lasting friendships.

I've been completely comfortable, observing "the sea and the sky in all of its nuances" and feeling safely ensconced all the while. Everything so far as fallen into place like I somehow pushed the "easy" button. Someone, an intuitive, quite a while ago predicted this trip for me (long before I even thought about it) as a way of finding my beliefs about feeling safe in the world. I'd like to extend that to a safe universe. I feel right at home.


Offline BethAnne

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but you must believe that the world cannot threaten you.  By such a belief you so attract probabilities that you actually miss the threats that appear at one level of reality.

There are a handful of Seth concepts that have stood out for me and have become my baseline and this is one and it has served me well.

Deb, are you finding "news" there has a different slant?  In the 80's  when I got to go to England I remember seeing a comedy skit on "dumb Texans" who over paid because they didn't understand the money.  Being American it was a hilarious parody of our arrogance.
Glad you are having such a great time.  Looking forward to hearing how it all plays out when you get back.   :)

Offline BethAnne

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I found this last night and I must admit I was a bit startled at first, but then I realized that the Old Girl probably has a touch of Alzheimers.   :D


Offline Deb

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Quote from: BethAnne
Deb, are you finding "news" there has a different slant?  In the 80's  when I got to go to England I remember seeing a comedy skit on "dumb Texans" who over paid because they didn't understand the money.  Being American it was a hilarious parody of our arrogance.
Glad you are having such a great time.  Looking forward to hearing how it all plays out when you get back.   

Hi Beth, sorry I’ve been SO busy having a wonderful time and being without internet some times. I tend to not watch the news because in my opinion it’s always the same stuff, over and over, and the media is biased. My impression of the news in England from the past has been that it’s mostly tabloid-like articles, more interested in scandals of the rich and famous and less focused on fear, negativity, doom and gloom (US news tendencies). I’ve been asked about the upcoming elections more than once and could only be honest in saying I don’t think there’s a “lesser of two evils” this time around. I’m tempted to not vote and let the chips fall where they may. Maybe I’ll defect. :-)

I’m currently on a long flight from the UK to DC with NO INTERNET (tough on me), but I’ve saved several pages of the most recent posts before I left London so will try to catch up to some degree and no doubt have a posting party when I get online again.

Update: Back home now and will now most likely take a look at the news since GB voted on the EU yesterday and it seems everything has changed since I left.   :o


Offline Sena

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Quote from: Deb
Update: Back home now and will now most likely take a look at the news since GB voted on the EU yesterday and it seems everything has changed since I left. 
It looks as if 52% of British want to create their own reality, for better or worse.

Offline barrie

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Quote from: Sena
It looks as if 52% of British want to create their own reality, for better or worse.

The other 48 percent are also and always and equally creating their own reality as well.

Offline Wren

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I've fallen off the Sethian path, as I usually do, and for weeks have been obsessing over personal problems and the news, following the EU ref/Brexit (ugly word) campaign, which was itself also ugly and nasty.

I didn't vote to leave, I wanted to remain but other people wanted otherwise. The vote happened on my birthday, I was out with a friend and the rain poured all afternoon when we were trying to visit a historic town. The Brexit result was a real shock to me the next morning. I felt terribly anxious, the not knowing what will happen to us in the future making me upset, and not sure why we are turning our backs on Europe at such a critical time. I'm no fan of Cameron either but started crying during his resignation speech, despite a belief that he should never have promised a referendum in the first place!

I've not been able to tell this to anyone else. Everyone at works seems fine with it (the company won't be affected) and as the rest of my family voted to leave, I don't want to raise the issue with them and possibly cause bad feeling. 

So as a member of the 48% I'm trying to come to terms with it all.  :(


Offline LenKop

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Hi Wren,

Why do you think this is such a critical time? Or particularly more critical than any other time?

LK

Offline BethAnne

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Wren, Glad you posted and am interested in your take and observations.  I think this will have considerable changes for the world.  Why do your family want to leave?  Is immigration a big part of this decision? 
I don't have TV and only get world news from what I haphazardly find on UTube......or here.   :D 
I'm working on aSethian experiment to see how my life will flow if I mentally withdraw from The World for awhile.  Even tho I've been back in Aztec for a year now I only see a couple of people.  As it was, I had  been gone over 5 years and changed so much that most of the people I had known for years could not keep our friendship together with Super Glue!  For  the most part they were right where I left them and picked up the same bitchy conversations from 5 years before!   ;D

I've been having deep dreams of a Grand Shift for the better and wonder if this is part of what I've been picking up.  I posted the dreams and only do so for dreams that I feel reflect Mass Events.  They have a different feel.  More Mass.   :)

On my blog I posted a couple of Woo-woo Utubes about Brexit.  Seth, AH, Bashar and The Hathors are the only channelings I listen to but included a Pleiadian one.  I really have only listened to David Ick recently and for "real news" I start out with The Young Turks and go from there if it seems important.
So here is my link to my blog for those Utubes.
http://bethnm.blogspot.com/

I feel this Event will have far reaching ripples.


Offline Wren

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Quote from: LenKop
Hi Wren,

Why do you think this is such a critical time? Or particularly more critical than any other time?

LK


There are 'challenges' (to use Seth's term) that cannot be handled alone by countries: the migration of refugees ; violence from terrorist organisations ; global economics.



Offline Wren

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Quote from: BethAnne
Wren, Glad you posted and am interested in your take and observations.  I think this will have considerable changes for the world.  Why do your family want to leave?  Is immigration a big part of this decision? 




Yes, I think immigration and the amounts of money that the UK gave to the EU were the main parts of the Leave vote. We did get some rebate though and investment from the EU, so it wasn't all one-way.

I was so anxious over the weekend that I stopped watching the news/looking at newspapers altogether and focused on chores in my flat and fun YouTube stuff. The YouTube stuff really helped. I'm still not actively seeking the news, but I did glance at a few things in the newspapers, as I have to check them for my job. I am very good at self-sabotage, so in a way this has been another wakeup call (how many am I going to need?!  ;D).


« Last Edit: June 27, 2016, 12:57:30 PM by Wren »

Offline BethAnne

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so in a way this has been another wakeup call (how many am I going to need?!

Gosh Wren!  If we're still breathing we're still working at it!  LOL!  Did I tell you I'm probably twice youre age and only got a smidgen down?

Offline Wren

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Quote from: BethAnne
so in a way this has been another wakeup call (how many am I going to need?!

Gosh Wren!  If we're still breathing we're still working at it!  LOL!  Did I tell you I'm probably twice youre age and only got a smidgen down?

Some wake-up calls are much bigger than others. And some wakeup calls are not recognised for what they are at the time.

Offline BethAnne

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So are you going through a big wake up?  Is it scary or exciting?

I've had a cluster of them lately and it's making me very nervous.   ;D  I see I have to make some big changes and I'm resisting but am at a point where I can't go backwards. 

Offline Wren

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Quote from: BethAnne
So are you going through a big wake up?  Is it scary or exciting?

I've had a cluster of them lately and it's making me very nervous.   ;D  I see I have to make some big changes and I'm resisting but am at a point where I can't go backwards. 

I'd say they make me nervous, as I'm generally risk-averse.

As well as the EU ref result, there have also been some changes with my accommodation (notice I don't say 'home' - home is somewhere I associate with feeling comfortable, and I don't feel that in my flat at the moment) which make me feel it's time to move on, which itself is stymied over money anxieties. So I'm resisting also. The idea of this being a 'safe' universe is harder to grasp when dealing with anxiety. I just want to know what ACTION to take IN THE PRESENT MOMENT. The conscious self is going around in circles.

Offline BethAnne

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The idea of this being a 'safe' universe is harder to grasp when dealing with anxiety. I just want to know what ACTION to take IN THE PRESENT MOMENT. The conscious self is going around in circles.
I can imagine.  However this deal with Brexit works out it will be historic!  Best of luck finding a new nest.   :)

Offline Deb

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Quote from: Deb
They turn their deaths into lessons for other people, forcing them to ask questions that would not have been asked before. There are also mass statements of the same kind for people who come together to die

Statements like the above afford me very little comfort on days like today:
"Dallas sniper who gunned down 5 cops 'wanted to kill white people,' chief says"

I continually have a harder time dealing with all the murder happening in my country—and in the world in general. My tactic has been to avoid constant exposure to the news, but I don't live in a vacuum so while my exposure is limited, it's not absolute.

How do the rest of you deal with it? My first impulse is the desire to run away and live on a mountain top somewhere, far away from all the madness. But I'm too social a creature for that.


Offline Dandelion

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Quote from: Deb
How do the rest of you deal with it?

The short answer—and the thought I cling to when I hear about the latest horrible violence or disaster—is that it is impetus for all of us to search for better answers and to change. 

This concept became clearer to me when Seth was discussing why Jane chose such a bad childhood and also had such difficult challenges in her adult life.  It was a continuing impetus for her to keep searching for answers, to keep expanding her abilities.  If she had somehow resolved her childhood traumas and not had major challenges to overcome in her adult life, it's unlikely that any of the Seth books would have been written.  She could have expressed her creativity and at least some of her abilities in poetry and fiction and been reasonably content with her life.  But she chose all those challenges in order to keep pushing herself.

People, both individually and as a group, resist change.  They wait until they hit rock bottom and self-destruct or experience a crisis that is so big that they are forced to change.  Even then, some slip back into the old patterns of behavior after the crisis is over, especially if there is something or someone else to blame.  But at some point, things become so bad that it would be intolerable to continue.  A breaking point is reached.  This seems like a pretty primitive way to create change and growth to me, but it is the world we have created with our fear-based, negative beliefs.  Yet in spite of the drawbacks of this method, we have managed to make some progress, if you compare our current world to different historic periods.

As individuals, what can we do?  Maybe the answer is the slogan, "Be the change."  Even if it's just a private way of living, it helps shift energy toward a more positive world.  (For example, I am trying to use the Seth material to increase my understanding and develop a more positive approach in my life, rather than automatically reacting in a fearful, negative way.)  Or perhaps one can contribute in a more openly expressive way by focusing on and supporting people who are trying to get others to be more inclusive, tolerant of differences, nonviolent, etc., rather than letting ourselves get caught up in the horror and violence that the media focuses on.  Or???

Offline Sena

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Quote from: Dandelion
This concept became clearer to me when Seth was discussing why Jane chose such a bad childhood and also had such difficult challenges in her adult life.  It was a continuing impetus for her to keep searching for answers, to keep expanding her abilities.  If she had somehow resolved her childhood traumas and not had major challenges to overcome in her adult life, it's unlikely that any of the Seth books would have been written.  She could have expressed her creativity and at least some of her abilities in poetry and fiction and been reasonably content with her life.  But she chose all those challenges in order to keep pushing herself.
Dandelion, thanks for expressing this so clearly. The fact that Jane was seemingly unable to get over her illness could be seen to be an objection to the validity of Seth's teaching. I think you have given the answer to this objection. While it is true that one can create one's own reality, some exceptional individuals like Jane may choose to create a reality which is seemingly imperfect.

Just before I read your post, I had read an article which was quite critical of Seth and Robert Butts.
http://silkroadvisions.com/2016/06/14/the-illness-and-death-of-jane-roberts-channeller-of-seth/
This article, written by Carol Leigh Rice, criticizes Seth thus: "It really calls into question the organic relationship of Seth to Jane – was this a domineering alter ego in whose grip Jane had been lost?  Was he truly her beneficent mentor and guide, or was he an ego-driven discarnate whom Jane had made some kind of life contract with?". She writes that Robert Butts "comes across as a controlling, ascetic, frugal, almost monastic presence."
I am glad I read your post immediately afterwards.

Offline Dandelion

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@Sena
Based on that short quote from the article, I have to wonder how much of the Seth material she's read and if she understood any of it at all.  It's a common reaction to dismiss, attack, or even demonize that which one does not understand.  It's the result of the either/or, good/bad, right/wrong, all or nothing mode of thinking that the ego (in all of us) is prone to.

Something else Seth said in regard to all the problems that Jane, Rob, and we all have was that one doesn't give an idiot complicated problems to solve, but instead gives only those that are within the capabilities of the individual.  In other words, the inner self will not create problems that are beyond the personality's abilities to work out.  That doesn't mean the personality will work them out, but rather that they have the capability of doing so.  Furthermore, it is not the intent of the inner self to make life so easy that it presents no challenge to the personality, no opportunity for learning and growth.  So generally, the greater the abilities an individual has, the greater the challenges they will have throughout their entire life.

Offline Deb

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Quote from: Dandelion
It was a continuing impetus for her to keep searching for answers, to keep expanding her abilities.  If she had somehow resolved her childhood traumas and not had major challenges to overcome in her adult life, it's unlikely that any of the Seth books would have been written.  She could have expressed her creativity and at least some of her abilities in poetry and fiction and been reasonably content with her life.  But she chose all those challenges in order to keep pushing herself.

People, both individually and as a group, resist change.  They wait until they hit rock bottom and self-destruct or experience a crisis that is so big that they are forced to change.  Even then, some slip back into the old patterns of behavior after the crisis is over, especially if there is something or someone else to blame.  But at some point, things become so bad that it would be intolerable to continue.  A breaking point is reached.  This seems like a pretty primitive way to create change and growth to me, but it is the world we have created with our fear-based, negative beliefs.

Wow Dandelion, that was powerful, clear and makes complete sense. Thank you, a great point about Jane mostly likely not producing the materials without her own demons to face. That also makes me look at all the “struggling artists” in history: the most successful ones had horrible obstacles and challenges in their own lives, many suicides, crash and burns. Art born of pain.

The thing is, I understand what the Seth materials say about death, mass events, making a statement for change and so while that does take some of the sting out of the violence I hear about on a daily basis, it’s still a shock for me when these things happen. I tend to be sensitive and overly empathetic anyway. Yes, “be the change” seems to be the only thing most of us can do.

Quote from: Dandelion
Yet in spite of the drawbacks of this method, we have managed to make some progress, if you compare our current world to different historic periods.

Yes, thanks again, very good point. Progress appears painfully slow to me, but I need to look back to see that really progress is observable and in a relatively short time when considering the big picture.

Sena, thanks for the link to the Silk Road blog. It was an interesting read, considering the opinions of the author. Do you understand her comment about Seth “earning Jane and Rob millions, but leaving them both desolate?” Having read The Way Towards Health, it doesn’t seem Jane and Rob had enough money to even get by. They certainly didn’t live extravagantly and had to borrow money to pay medical bills in the end.

Quote from: Dandelion
So generally, the greater the abilities an individual has, the greater the challenges they will have throughout their entire life.

Sounds like the old adage “God doesn’t give anyone more than they can handle.” But it’s logical. And a little scary. And again makes me want to look around at others’ lives with fresh eyes. Recently I met a man who went blind suddenly about 5 years ago (he’s 65). He’s an amazingly resilient person and turned his handicap into a new career opportunity for himself—inspirational speaker. Just recently he was diagnosed with stage 3 lymphoma. My first thought was, “how much can one person bear?” But I also recently found out that he slightly delayed his cancer treatments so he could take part in the Ride the Rockies. Greater challenges. And a man who is a true inspiration. After a brief mention about his cancer, he turned his attention to his joy of cooking and was asking for my favorite sourdough recipe.


Offline Sena

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Quote from: Deb
Do you understand her comment about Seth “earning Jane and Rob millions, but leaving them both desolate?” Having read The Way Towards Health, it doesn’t seem Jane and Rob had enough money to even get by.
Deb, yes, I think it is a shocking lie. My understanding is that the books did not have great sales while Jane was alive. It appears that Carol Leigh Rice wants to show that the Seth approach is inadequate, so that readers will pay for "therapy" sessions with her.

Offline Dandelion

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Sena and Deb, I really appreciate your comments about the clarity in my post.  The issues we're talking about are so complicated that it's hard enough just to understand them oneself, and condensing one's thoughts into something that makes sense to others is an even bigger challenge.

The comments and questions posted on this message board have helped me focus better on all the different issues I'm working on, and combined with some of the Seth sessions I've been reading lately, I feel like I've made great progress in my understanding.

Offline Dandelion

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Session 491 in Early Sessions #9 just added new depth to my understanding about all this.  Seth was comparing our reality to other realities that did not have lots of violence like ours.  He said each of them were set up with different types of controls to prevent it, such as limiting the amount of energy available, allowing less free will, or having automatic short circuits if a person contemplated violence .  Although it resulted in more constructive uses of aggression in those realities, it also resulted in less progress being made because they did not have the same impetus.  So ultimately, not only was it more difficult for them to learn how to handle large amounts of energy, but learning was very slow to occur, and the big challenge in those realities was to not just coast along, maintaining the status quo.

In our reality, we have a lot more creative energy (aggressive energy) available.  That's reflected even in our natural world which uses great bursts of energy to make sudden, rapid changes.  We also have free will which gives us more options in how we use our energy.  So we are actually learning how to use energy more rapidly than those other realities.  (We, apparently, are "more venturesome, more daring"  And also impatient.)

Some thoughts:  One reason it feels like change is happening slowly is that we use time to slow things down in our world.  This gives us "time" to change direction—something which is very important when we're learning to handle large amounts of aggressive energy.  Slowing things down may also have the effect of reducing the intensity of the energy so that it doesn't overwhelm or kill our physical bodies.

Speculation in connection to Jane and her problems:  In many sessions, Seth mentions that Jane was handling immense amounts of energy.  The dilemma that everybody has is how to handle aggressive energy.  If you tamp it down, you are not fulfilling your potential.  Besides that, suppression is liable to lead to explosive expressions of aggression.  But how do you express it without any of it being directed against others?  Sometimes you direct it against yourself as the only "safe" alternative.  A person may be especially prone to doing this if they've had a difficult childhood where they were continually devalued and made aware of all the things that were wrong with them.  In Jane's case, she did multiple things to handle the immense amount of energy she had, like tamp it down to a certain extent, express some of it in her writing, and exert strong control over her spontaneous self.  But she also directed a lot of her aggression against herself.  As she loosened up in some areas, like allowing herself more spontaneity, she released even more energy, some of which was added to the energy that she directed against herself, thus creating her multiple physical problems.


Offline Sena

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Dandelion, having read your post, I was motivated to buy Early Sessions #9 for Kindle.

Session 471 (March 31, 1969)

"Jane wanted information from Seth about her struggle last night with what she believed to be a thought form she had created while sleeping. The experience had been somewhat frightening, and she was quite certain it was not a nightmare."

Seth's response included the following:

"I am referring of course to his "black thing" in quotes, and the struggle. The energy behind the thing was the energy of hidden fears, but such a thing could be formed by anyone, for there are fears in every man.......

"The earlier episode involving the man (the same evening) is something different. The man was dying. Ruburt entered him briefly. He was going to comfort him and help him readjust.....

"It was a man Ruburt knew in the past and considered evil. This had something to do with his reaction, therefore.....The man may have been Ruburt's Father Doren.  If not there is quite a psychological connection between the man who died and this Father Doren in Ruburt's mind."

I searched the web for a "Father Doren" in connection with Jane Roberts, but could not find anything. I did find a reference to a "Father Trenton", who may or may not have been the same person. This was in a dissertation written by an Anna Preston:

http://tinyurl.com/Anna-Preston-thesis

The dissertation is not of much interest as it tries to explain the Seth phenomenon in psychiatric terminology as a case of "dissociation", but the following paragraph draws attention to the sexual abuse Jane suffered as a child.

"As if this weren't bad enough, Jane also endured at least several instances of sexual abuse at the hands of visiting priests. Watkins tells us, “according to Rob's notes in The Way Toward Health […], it began when Jane was a small child. 'We talked a lot about the priests in her life', Rob writes for May 18, 1984 […] 'She described again those visits from Father Trenton. She talked about how the one priest who put her to bed when she was but three or four years old would “play” with her sexually...'”1 Watkins was apparently surprised to uncover this abuse: “Jane never said much about this to me, and the few comments she did make, about a priest who 'chased her around the bed', were delivered casually in group settings, with deprecating humor, no hint of the frightening child-molesting scenario […] that Rob's notes make plain.” She tells us, “Such things were not openly acknowledged or discussed in those days, and thus I didn't (or wouldn't) recognize the iceberg beneath Jane's remarks...”

As you have written in your post, Jane "also directed a lot of her aggression against herself", and this is often seen in people who have suffered childhood sexual abuse.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2016, 07:40:18 AM by Sena »

Offline Dandelion

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Quote from: Sena
"As if this weren't bad enough, Jane also endured at least several instances of sexual abuse at the hands of visiting priests. Watkins tells us, “according to Rob's notes in The Way Toward Health […], it began when Jane was a small child. 'We talked a lot about the priests in her life', Rob writes for May 18, 1984 […] 'She described again those visits from Father Trenton. She talked about how the one priest who put her to bed when she was but three or four years old would “play” with her sexually...'”1 Watkins was apparently surprised to uncover this abuse: “Jane never said much about this to me, and the few comments she did make, about a priest who 'chased her around the bed', were delivered casually in group settings, with deprecating humor, no hint of the frightening child-molesting scenario […] that Rob's notes make plain.” She tells us, “Such things were not openly acknowledged or discussed in those days, and thus I didn't (or wouldn't) recognize the iceberg beneath Jane's remarks...”

Those are some really important points that you've added, Sena.  It's easy to overlook the impact that the time period she lived in would have had on Jane's life and beliefs.  Also, the difficulties Jane experienced both in her childhood and her adult life were, if anything, under-emphasized in most of the material, although some of Jane and Rob's struggles are covered more extensively in the deleted personal sessions.

If you are finding Early Sessions #9 valuable, you might also want to consider getting Early Sessions #8.  I feel that the last two books in the Early Sessions series really get into some deeper material, both in the concepts Seth was sharing and in the material related to Jane and Rob.  Earlier sessions were often about developing Jane's abilities, doing a lot of testing, and establishing basic concepts, etc.  When the sessions first started, Jane also did quite a bit of blocking when it came to personal material and only started to let more of it through in later sessions when she felt more confident in the whole situation and also when she started feeling desperate about her physical condition.

Early Sessions #8 has a very interesting forward written by Rob on July 6, 2000.  Regardless of what other people might think about the relationship of Seth, Jane, and Rob,  Jane and Rob appreciated Seth's help.  Sixteen years after Jane's death, Rob wrote, "We deeply appreciated Seth's insights and suggestions about Jane's and my visible and invisible psyches, the challenges we had chosen to create for ourselves in our present lifetimes."  There were also some really telling phrases in the rest of the forward that reflected his appreciation, such as "…Jane's and my struggles to survive before the advent of the Seth material…" and "Seth's personal material was startling in its unexpected clarity…" and "…the Seth material…has the creative power to help not only us but many others."

« Last Edit: July 14, 2016, 05:15:02 PM by Dandelion »

 

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