Religious Shit

[Deb]

OK, I've seen this before, but the adding of Seth is new.
From Facebook, Ivan Kelly:

Taoism: Shit happens.
Buddhism: If shit happens, it's not really shit.
Islam: If shit happens, it's the will of Allah.
Protestantism: Shit happens because you don't work hard enough.
Judaism: Why does this shit always happen to us?
Hinduism: This shit happened before.
Catholicism: Shit happens because you're bad.
Hare Krishna: Shit Happens rama rama.
T.V. Evangelism: Send in more shit.
Atheism: No shit.
Jehovah's Witness: Knock, knock, shit happens.
Hedonism: There's nothing like a good shit happening.
Christian Science: Shit happens in your mind.
Agnosticism: Maybe shit happens, maybe it doesn't.
Rastafarianism: Let's smoke this shit.
Existentialism: What is shit anyway?
Stoicism: This shit doesn't bother me.
Sethianism: You Create Your Own SHIT!

[BethAnne]

Great!  That really sums it up!
 

[Sena]

This puts shit into a nutshell as it were.
As an indoctrinated Catholic, I would say:
Catholicism: Shit happens because you don't do what the Pope and his priests tells you to do.
If all else fails, blame Adam.

[Wren]

A spiritual mentor used to have a sign in his study with most of these on it. I was always tickled by it. 

As someone who was brought up in a loose Church of England setting (standard Christian stuff at school, mother who used to go to church occasionally) I can kind of relate to the Protestant ethic. Don't be lazy! Pass those exams! etc. And yet I have felt uncomfortable and weird around Catholic symbols and being in a Catholic church, which I think is related to possibly having very strong Protestant convictions in another life. There's no 'rational' reason for me feeling like that. 

[Deb]

Catholicism: Shit happens because you don't do what the Pope and his priests tells you to do.
If all else fails, blame Adam.

Yes, you're right!
I was raised Catholic, have considered myself a Recovering Catholic for years. Almost recovered.

There's no 'rational' reason for me feeling like that. 

I feel the same Wren. But I think my problems come from this life. Ah well, I'm not comfortable with any organized religion. Someone told me I was burned at the stake in one of my incarnations because my beliefs didn't fit in with the religious belief de jour. They still don't. 

[BethAnne]

So how hard is it for you Catholics to make that jump to Seth?  It seems like it is almost at the opposite end of the scale?
 

[Wren]

There's no 'rational' reason for me feeling like that. 

I feel the same Wren. But I think my problems come from this life. Ah well, I'm not comfortable with any organized religion. Someone told me I was burned at the stake in one of my incarnations because my beliefs didn't fit in with the religious belief de jour. They still don't. 

Yes, I think I went through the same thing, some sort of persecution for my beliefs. I have no other way for explaining how strange I feel around Catholic iconography.

But basically it all comes down to whether you believe something is 'true' or not. Or at least true for you.

[Sena]

So how hard is it for you Catholics to make that jump to Seth?  It seems like it is almost at the opposite end of the scale?

BethAnne, in my case it was giving up Catholicism for long years of atheism. Then I attended meetings of a Gnostic group for a few years. I had to give that up because of their weird ideas. Back to atheism. Then I came across the Seth books sometime last year.

[Deb]

I never considered myself a Catholic or even a Christian for that matter. Forced religious indoctrination: I was baptized, communioned and confirmed and then finally permitted to make my own decisions about going to church. After that I only went back for funerals and weddings. My ex is Jewish, but had the same religious resistance that I have. When I moved into this neighborhood, which was brand new at the time (my son was 3), I soon realized most of my neighbors were Christian Fundamentalists and all went to the same church. At that time I re-evaluated my lack of religious conviction, spent a few years reading up on different religions, thinking there was something wrong with me because I just didn't get "it." My son would occasionally come home from a friend's house and ask, "Mommy, does it hurt when you burn in hell?"

I've been called the Godless Neighbor (meant judgmentally, but I suppose it's accurate, considering mainstream religions' definition of God), told that my son and I would go to hell if I didn't accept JC as my personal savior, been deluged with religious propaganda and inch-thick piles of printouts from the Internet explaining why reading the Harry Potter books to my son would ruin his life. I managed to stay true to myself. My neighbors have accepted me as their token heathen.

Someone introduced me to Abraham Hicks a few years ago, and I thought, "well, this feels pretty right to me." Abraham Hicks introduced me to Seth, and I finally found something that rang true to my core. No looking back! I finally found something that made sense to me.

So considering my religion-bucking past, Seth was not a stretch at all. A welcome relief is more like it. Like finally coming home.

PS
When another FC observed the high incidence of religious neighbors I have, I was asked, rather rudely I thought, "What is God trying to tell you?" My first impulse was, "It's time to move?" Hah.

[Wren]

Oh my gosh Deb I've never heard of anything like a FC community like that in the UK. I'm not saying there isn't one, just that I've never even seen it reported. Instead we have our concentrations of pagans and witches, particularly in the West Country and New Forest. 

I went to Winchester Cathedral today -  I love going to Anglian cathedrals because of their history and architecture, and I'm cool with most tombs and religious statues of saints. I'm a bit perverse. 

[John Sorensen]

So how hard is it for you Catholics to make that jump to Seth?  It seems like it is almost at the opposite end of the scale?

BethAnne, in my case it was giving up Catholicism for long years of atheism. Then I attended meetings of a Gnostic group for a few years. I had to give that up because of their weird ideas. Back to atheism. Then I came across the Seth books sometime last year.

Seth is full of even weirder ideas, I'm giving it up! 


Just remember that God is not really God, but an evil lesser god that wants to trick you. I guess that God is also good at a hand of poker, nobody can read that evil lesser God!

[Deb]

Oh my gosh Deb I've never heard of anything like a FC community like that in the UK. I'm not saying there isn't one, just that I've never even seen it reported. Instead we have our concentrations of pagans and witches, particularly in the West Country and New Forest.   

That sounds rather inviting to me actually.
I live in what's called a "bedroom community," a suburb south of Denver for people who mostly want to raise their children outside of the city environment. Plus there's the fact that you can buy a house here for half the price of a MUCH smaller house in the outlying Denver area. But there's not a lot of variety in the people here. Mostly white, most traditionally religious, mostly Christian. I have no idea how I ended up here. We have what I consider church factories, they're huge, and as many churches as Starbucks it seems. I have a hard time believing there are that many people who are still so deeply steeped in traditional religion, but they actually need police directing traffic out of church parking lots because they're always packed. How did I miss that boat?

I think I'd been to Winchester Cathedral, but I can't remember for sure. Are you near London?

I like England a lot, it feels like home. I've been there a couple of times, will be back next month. I do love old churches and cemeteries, for the architecture, atmosphere, history. My first trip to England was probably 25 years ago and spent traveling from henge to henge. Every little village we stayed in had a wonderfully old stone church and graveyard. I loved the pubs too, each having its own signature beer or cider and cheese. It was a wonderful experience. There's no real history in the US like there is in Europe, the oldest buildings being in St. Augustine, Florida from the 1500s. Unless you want to go back to Native American ruins which are pretty cool in themselves.

Seth is full of even weirder ideas, I'm giving it up!  

Huh? John! 'Splain yourself!

[John Sorensen]

Well I've recently found out Seth is some kind of demon who is here to engineer the destruction of humanity, so I'm calling it quits. 


That's just me talking after working a 15 hour day and then getting 90 mins of sleep before working another four hours.
My sense of humor is usually a bit obscure and twisted for most folk, especially when they take it literally.

[Deb]

Well alrighty then, I understand. You scared me for a moment.
Thank you for the explanation.

I can now sleep tonight.

[Sena]

John, you wrote:

Seth is full of even weirder ideas, I'm giving it up!

Perhaps weird was the wrong word I used. The Gnostic guys had ideas which did not work in practice. It was a mishmash of Blavatsky and Gurdjieff. Their aim was to become a "Master".
The test of an idea for me is whether it works in practice.

[Wren]

Oh my gosh Deb I've never heard of anything like a FC community like that in the UK. I'm not saying there isn't one, just that I've never even seen it reported. Instead we have our concentrations of pagans and witches, particularly in the West Country and New Forest.   

That sounds rather inviting to me actually.
I live in what's called a "bedroom community," a suburb south of Denver for people who mostly want to raise their children outside of the city environment. Plus there's the fact that you can buy a house here for half the price of a MUCH smaller house in the outlying Denver area. But there's not a lot of variety in the people here. Mostly white, most traditionally religious, mostly Christian. I have no idea how I ended up here. We have what I consider church factories, they're huge, and as many churches as Starbucks it seems. I have a hard time believing there are that many people who are still so deeply steeped in traditional religion, but they actually need police directing traffic out of church parking lots because they're always packed. How did I miss that boat?

I think I'd been to Winchester Cathedral, but I can't remember for sure. Are you near London?

I like England a lot, it feels like home. I've been there a couple of times, will be back next month. I do love old churches and cemeteries, for the architecture, atmosphere, history. My first trip to England was probably 25 years ago and spent traveling from henge to henge. Every little village we stayed in had a wonderfully old stone church and graveyard. I loved the pubs too, each having its own signature beer or cider and cheese. It was a wonderful experience. There's no real history in the US like there is in Europe, the oldest buildings being in St. Augustine, Florida from the 1500s. Unless you want to go back to Native American ruins which are pretty cool in themselves.

Just to clarify, I wasn't trying to say that the pagan/witch communities are a bad thing, in fact I love the fact that we have them here and I've have a slight interest in Wicca myself (The Museum of Witchcraft in Boscastle is brilliant, BTW!). I was just offering an example of an alternative we have in England to FC.

I'm about 35 miles from London. I've been to a few cathedrals over the years - Worcester, Gloucester, St Albans, Chichester and am planning a few more. Gloucester is my favourite so far, stunning building.

[Deb]

Just to clarify, I wasn't trying to say that the pagan/witch communities are a bad thing,

I didn't have that impression at all. Variety is the spice of life. Just not where I live. There's no real spice here. Just vanilla. But that's not true everywhere, just this particular neighborhood. Maybe I belong in Boulder. There, anything goes.

[John Sorensen]

John, you wrote:

Seth is full of even weirder ideas, I'm giving it up!

Perhaps weird was the wrong word I used. The Gnostic guys had ideas which did not work in practice. It was a mishmash of Blavatsky and Gurdjieff. Their aim was to become a "Master".
The test of an idea for me is whether it works in practice.

I loved your post and found the word "weird" both appropriate and hilarious in a subtle way.

[John Sorensen]

Just to clarify, I wasn't trying to say that the pagan/witch communities are a bad thing, in fact I love the fact that we have them here and I've have a slight interest in Wicca myself (The Museum of Witchcraft in Boscastle is brilliant, BTW!). I was just offering an example of an alternative we have in England to FC.

I'm about 35 miles from London. I've been to a few cathedrals over the years - Worcester, Gloucester, St Albans, Chichester and am planning a few more. Gloucester is my favourite so far, stunning building.

But all witches are the devils work, at least that is what Christian friends have consistently told me, they seem very sincere about it.How could they possibly be wrong?Apparently bursting out laughing only makes them more sincere and angry so my advise is don't do that!

[BethAnne]

Catholicism: Shit happens because you don't do what the Pope and his priests tells you to do.
How convenient to have an Arm of the Holy Roman Empire where part of the ritual is a confessional?    It's such an interesting story on how Constantine pulled all that propaganda together for the sake of the unity of the empire. His Mother was in charge of tourism and she "found" all the major Christian sites and promoted them.   The debate at the time was the Gnostic version that God is within  vs.  you can only contact God through a priest for a price.  Guess who won?  A very good book is "Woman with the Alabaster Jar". 
I'm glad I'm a Sethian Christian Scientist!   
I know a lot of WooWoos whose relatives/friends are Fundies.  Polarities.  ?  My daughter homeschools her 5 kids because she is Fundamentalist.  I'm not allow contact with my grandchildren because I am "evil".   
I would LOVE to go to Beltane.  Ever google images?      I've been to England once with an English friend who took me all over.  Yes.  It does feel like  the Mothership.
I'm interested in Gnostic theology.  I guess there is a wide variety and Valentine seems to be the more sane.  I think there are "truths" there but has been misunderstand.  It strikes me as Pre-History.  Archetype stuff.   I think there is more to this than the Jesus story.
Sophia and the Demi Urge??

Sophia is the lowest Aeon, or anthropic expression of the emanation of the light of God. She is considered to have fallen from grace in some way, in so doing creating or helping to create the material world.  Almost all Gnostic systems of the Syrian or Egyptian type taught that the universe began with an original, unknowable God, referred to as the Parent or Bythos, or as the Monad by Monoimus. From this initial unitary beginning, the One spontaneously emanated further Aeons, being pairs of progressively 'lesser' beings in sequence.  It is Sophia who brings about this instability in the Pleroma, in turn bringing about the creation of materiality.  The creation of the Demiurge (also known as Yaldabaoth, "Son of Chaos") is also a mistake made during this exile. The Demiurge proceeds to create the physical world in which we live, ignorant of Sophia, who nevertheless manages to infuse some spiritual spark or pneuma into his creation.  The Sophia herself is but a reflex of the "Mother of all living" and is therefore also called "Mother." She is the formatrix of heaven and earth, for as much as mere matter can only receive form through the light which, coming down from above has interpenetrated the dark waters of the hylē; but she is also at the same time the spiritual principle of life in creation,  as the world-soul.  mētra (womb) from whence the whole world is supposed to have issued.  The pregnant mētra therefore contains within itself all kinds of animal forms in the reflex of heaven and earth.   
She generally bears the name Ennoia, but is also called Wisdom (Sophia), Ruler, Holy Spirit, Prunikos, Barbelo. Having sunk down from the highest heavens into the lowest regions, she creates angels and archangels, and these again create and rule the material universe. Restrained and held down by the power of this lower world, she is hindered from returning to the kingdom of the Father. According to one representation she suffers all manner of insult from the angels and archangels bound and forced again and again into fresh earthly bodies, and compelled for centuries to wander in ever new corporeal forms.  Carl Jung linked the figure of Sophia to the highest archetype of the anima in depth psychology.^[24] The archetypal fall and recovery of Sophia is additionally linked (to a varying degree) to many different myths and stories (see damsel in distress).  Wikipedia

[Wren]

 
But all witches are the devils work, at least that is what Christian friends have consistently told me, they seem very sincere about it.How could they possibly be wrong?Apparently bursting out laughing only makes them more sincere and angry so my advise is don't do that!

"If you are obsessed with the idea of evil, then you will meet evil conditions. If you believe in devils, then you will encounter these."

Session 538

"On the one hand, quite simply and in a way that you cannot presently understand, evil does not exist."

Session 568

"If you believe in demons you will meet them - in this life as enemies, and in other realms of consciousness as devils or 'evil spirits'."

Session 677

I love the way that Seth is so consistent about this.

[BethAnne]

According to the History Channel, witches were people who used drugs to alter their consciousness.....which meant they didn't need the church.

[Deb]

I love the way that Seth is so consistent about this.   

Yes! I agree. And it makes total sense to me. I've read quite a few accounts of near death experiences and the various situations people say they've had on the "other side" and they seem to be flavored by the person's own beliefs, religious or otherwise. Some experience Jesus, God or Hell and demons, some just a sense of complete love, lightness and warmth. Those are the ones that say they didn't want to come back.

Seth said somewhere (I'll look for it tomorrow, getting sleepy now), that we take our beliefs with us when we die, at least for a period of time and start to come to our senses at some point. So those who have very strong convictions will experience what they are expecting and will take longer to come to. Feels right.

[Deb]

But all witches are the devils work, at least that is what Christian friends have consistently told me,

Hah, yes, I've been told a lot by Christians. I've been told that anything that does not sing praises to JC is the work of Satan. They will only read the Bible, listen to Christian music, read Christian books, etc. Kind of narrows the playing field. Makes me wonder how much we've really evolved.

Trivia: My maternal grandmother had a sister who was a Catholic nun. Supposedly her other sister was considered a witch. Rumors. My thought is that the witch was just a healer who believed in natural remedies, at least that's my feeling on it. I know which way I roll. Booga booga.

[Wren]

I'm not expecting to meet God, JC or demons so I'm hoping to meet something a bit New Age.  Or something out of the Dr Strange trailer. 

[BethAnne]

I think this is the video that talks about witches.

[John Sorensen]

I love the way that Seth is so consistent about this.   

Yes! I agree. And it makes total sense to me. I've read quite a few accounts of near death experiences and the various situations people say they've had on the "other side" and they seem to be flavored by the person's own beliefs, religious or otherwise. Some experience Jesus, God or Hell and demons, some just a sense of complete love, lightness and warmth. Those are the ones that say they didn't want to come back.

Seth said somewhere (I'll look for it tomorrow, getting sleepy now), that we take our beliefs with us when we die, at least for a period of time and start to come to our senses at some point. So those who have very strong convictions will experience what they are expecting and will take longer to come to. Feels right.

Hmmm, when I die I want to meet Carl Jung and some really cool demons straight from 70s rock album covers, it'll be a good old time.

[LenKop]

I grew up Roman Catholic, even went to a boys highschool run by Brothers of the Sacred Heart.

The thing that really made me question reality was music. Particularly heavy metal. Ironic how all the Satanic garbage associated with heavy metal in the 80's opened my mind and heart to greater ideas than my religious upbringing did. But looking back, one fed off the other. Lots of the metal stuff focused on Armageddon and the book of revelations, so I thank the Catholic Church for inventing Metal....\m/

LK

Cool book that i discovered via listening to British metal is called The Way of Wyrd. A story of a Christian monk's journey into Britain, and his relationship with a Pagan guide. By Brian Bates.

[BethAnne]

The Way of Wyrd
Sounds interesting.  I'll check it out.

[Sena]

Trivia: My maternal grandmother had a sister who was a Catholic nun. Supposedly her other sister was considered a witch. Rumors. My thought is that the witch was just a healer who believed in natural remedies, at least that's my feeling on it.

If I understand Seth correctly, we all have healing powers which are mostly suppressed. If any of us get round to using those powers, we might be condemned as witches.

[Deb]

Hmmm, when I die I want to meet

Really, there are a lot of "dead" people I'd love to meet.
I wonder how the death experience is for people who read and believe in the Seth materials, at least compared to those who believe in heaven and hell or... nothing at all. And then there's those who have died and came back, disappointed to be here and looking forward to returning "home." I just had a vision of the Matrix people being modemed in and out of the Matrix—"okay, we're in." Easy peasy. (I sure wish I had one of those ports in the back of my head.)

If any of us get round to using those powers, we might be condemned as witches.

Well from what I've heard about spontaneous healings where people change their minds and therefore change their health, doing a complete 180 from their deathbeds, it seems no one believes they did it themselves. Doctors refuse to consider it a healing, instead calling it remission. It's just not taken seriously, although there are a few researchers out there that are finally starting to look at the power of the mind over the body.

I just had a thought: If the one doing the healing is the Pope or some other religious icon (John of God?), then it's called a miracle and an act of god. Anyone else does a healing and it's discounted—and the healing is considered inexplicable or an anomaly and summarily dismissed.

In any case, no one's getting burned at the stake.

[BethAnne]

I believe that the more conscious you are at your death the more control you have when you reincarnate.
I feel that that times are such that people are dealing with past life dramas.  Maybe it's important to get that stuff resolved before the planet shifts.   My oldest son who I love dearly has been my assassin in several lifetimes.  (or not.  Who really knows?  LOL)  and he is a VERY difficult person.  We keep having mini symbolic deaths and after each we understand each other better.
I spent most of my childhood with my Christian Science Practitioner Grandmother.  It was just "normal" to have sick people come see her and leave healed.  It was a shock to go to school at 6 and find out that wasn't everyone's paradigm.   

Because I'm the most psychic in a pretty psychic family even they are a bit afraid of me because I "KNOW" where the bodies are buried so to speak.  I think that is why witches are condemned.  Even if I don't say anything about this most people give me a lot of space.
This is the witch in my family
https://www.geni.com/people/Mary-Barnes-of-Farmington-convicted-witch/6000000013479361545

[BethAnne]