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Started by Sena, May 12, 2016, 06:27:37 AM
Quote from: LenKopWelcome Joelr,It's difficult to argue with linear time. Particularly when we are absorbed by it. Some of the statements seem to be cemented in history so therefore must be correct, and if Seth mentions anything that doesn't follow what has been discovered then he is wrong. Perhaps historical data has not caught up with him yet? Ever wondered why so many 'Lost Gospels' and 'Lost Scriptures' and 'Lost this and that' have been discovered? Maybe they haven't been 'discovered' but created by us in the present moment to fit the needs and beliefs we share en masse at the moment. Seth always mentions that there are no closed systems of consciousness, that includes our future and our past. Besides, historians are constantly changing their views on the past, ironically, without even noticing that they just might be actually changing the past.
Quote from: LenKop'The story of the Creation, as Biblically stated, is the symbolic representation of a master event - a legend that became its own event, of course, forming about it whole arts and cultures, religions and disciplines. The same applies to Christianity itself, for all of the seemingly historical events connected with the official Christ did not happen in physical reality. They happened at another level of actuality, and were inserted into your time framework - touching a character here, a definitely known historical event there, until the two lines of activity were so entwined that you could not unravel one without unraveling the other.' D,E & VF sess 928There's an entire chapter on Myths in Mass Events, here's a bit...'Myth is not a distortion of fact, but the womb through which fact must come. Myth involves an intrinsic understanding of the nature of reality, couched in imaginative terms, carrying a power as strong as nature itself. Myth-making is a natural psychic characteristic, a psychic element that combines with other such elements to form a mythical representation of inner reality. That representation is then used as model upon which your civilizations are organized, and also as a perceptive tool through whose lens you interpret the private events of your own life in their historical context.' Mass Events sess 817
Quote from: LenKopWhy do say complete lack of knowledge? I haven't mentioned one thing in regard to music, does that mean I have a complete lack of knowledge about music? Perhaps Seth knew his market better than we give him credit for. What's the point about harping on about Zoroastrianism when the majority of readers will have no interest in it? Telling the world that Christ was this and Christ was that will surely prick up more ears in the western world during the 20th century. Having said that, he does mention the Speakers..
Quote from: LenKopFurthermore...'The same kinds of dramas in different ways have been given, and while the drama is always different, it is always the same. This does not mean that a Christ has appeared within each system of reality. it means that the idea of God has manifested within each system in a way that is comprehensible to the inhabitants.The drama continues to exist. It does not belong, for example, to your past. Only you have placed it there. This does not mean that it always reoccurs. The drama, then, was far from meaningless, and the spirit of Christ, in your terms, is legitimate. It is the probable God-drama that you choose to perceive. There were others that were perceived, but not by you, and there are other such dramas existing now.' Seth Speaks sess 560So maybe historians are not discovering things that happened pre-Roman empire, but are discovering simultaneous dramas that share the same stories and symbology, and dating them to wherever fits our current cultural belief.
Quote from: LenKopWhy is this a problem? Maybe the only problem is thinking that its a problem? Also I don't think Seth's job was to take those creative expressions away from us.
Quote from: transient amnesiaGood'morn'n Joel and everyone Is Seth wrong? I don't think so, it's that I don't understand something yet. could it be possible that Seth as "Pope" didn't have the Understanding in his 3D psychical mind, before his was murdered? and what memory would he be pulling that information from? His own social memory complex? just asking. I am familiar with Santos Bonacci's work and I like it for the most part because it is more to my 'Understanding'.I Love the sky and stars like a Sailor! but that's in my social memory. I myself, would have to agree that History is a lie agreed upon. Here are a few paragraphs from 'The Devil's Pulpit" by Rev Robert Taylor Pg. 204 Starting at "It never being to be forgotten,"https://archive.org/stream/devilspulpit00tayl#page/204/mode/2up[/url
Quote from: DebI'm just about Seth-saturated at this point. I opened some sort of Seth flood gate recently. I don't know if anyone else here looks at forum stats, but this topic has had 20,444 views and 216 replies. Soon to be 217. Anyway, please take a look at these: Seth on the Christ: https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?topic=1277And more importantly a new board, Unpublished Sessions: https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?board=52.0More information on what Seth had to say about Jesus the Christ and beyond. @Joelr there may be some answsers for you.
Quote from: JoelrSeth speaks of mostly general stuff,
Quote from: DebQuote from: JoelrSeth speaks of mostly general stuff,Yes, Seth was not extremely specific, but then Jane was admittedly uncomfortable with him talking about religion and she could control how much information came through on certain topics. She even would hold back personal information that she was afraid would upset Rob. Again, I wonder how much of Jane's religious upbringing affected the messages around that topic.A lot of the time Seth was responding to questions asked of him by Rob and Jane, class members, people that came to him for consultations, so there are more details on some topics, less on other. Seth did want to write an entire book on Jesus/Christ. Jane resisted that. I wonder how many more books, how much more information, would have come out if Jane lived another 20 years.
Quote from: myststarsThe lack and the desperation may make the one that is not channeling to push the other too much.
Quote from: usmaakI just finished reading the religion chapter of Seth Speaks again. I have to say, every time I read that stuff about the Christ personality, the return of Christ, etc..., I just roll my eyes. It's like I can't even help myself. All of my disdain for religion aside (and believe me, there's a lot), it all just seems so pat. The author of the Seth Material lived in the US. The primary religion is the US is Christianity. Of all the religions in the world, of which there are so many, it just happens to be return of a Christ personality. I mean WHAT A COINCIDENCE!!I almost skipped the religion chapter this time through, but I try to never skip because I never know if I might get something out of it.As far as the bible and Christianity in general, how are we to know that any of it actually even happened. 2000 years from now, is someone going to pick up a work of fiction like The Stand (my favorite book) and consider it to be a factual account of life 2000 years ago?Religion... Sigh...
Quote from: usmaakThe author of the Seth Material lived in the US. The primary religion is the US is Christianity. Of all the religions in the world, of which there are so many, it just happens to be return of a Christ personality. I mean WHAT A COINCIDENCE!!
Quote from: JoelrI've been studying the historical aspects of early Christianity and there were a whole bunch of dying and rising "forgive your personal sins" redeemer demi-gods before Jesus - Romulus, Inanna, Zalmoxus etc...
Quote from: JoelrIt's actually ruined the whole Seth thing for me it's so bad? It's disappointing but I have to be open minded and if that material is false how do I know about any other Seth stuff?
Quote from: SenaAlthough Seth said that he had been a minor Pope in a previous existence, I don't think he is infallible.
Quote from: Sena"The infinite ranges possible to human capabilities would be explored — and those who chose that route said, quote: "We will trust that our creativity will find its own way, and if there are nightmares we will waken from them. We will even learn from them. We will dare to push aside the dimensions of being into those realms in which only the gods have gone before — and through our utter vulnerability to experience, discover the divinity that gives our humanity its meaning. And (whispering) through the compassion that we have learned, will we be able to understand the divine errors that gave us the gift of our birth. Souls and molecules each are learning, each are forming realities, each are a part of a divinity in which each counterpart has a part to play.""—The Unknown Reality Volume 2 Section 6: Session 733 January 27, 1975Seth's reference to "divine errors" is quite interesting. The Christian God would be regarded as free from error.
Quote from: Deb[Here's the pinch of salt (or salt lick, if you prefer):"Do not place the words of gurus, ministers, priests, scientists, psychologists, friends — or my words — higher than the feelings of your own being. You can learn much from others, but the deepest knowledge must come from within yourself. Your own consciousness is embarked upon a reality that basically can be experienced by no other, that is unique and untranslatable, with its own meaning, following its own paths of becoming."—NoPR Chapter 22: Session 677, July 11, 1973Quote from: SenaAlthough Seth said that he had been a minor Pope in a previous existence, I don't think he is infallible.From what I remember about Seth being a pope, he was a bit of a monster in the morality category.
Quote from: usmaakThis is actually something that I've gone back and forth about over the years. When someone lies to me, it puts the veracity of everything else they've ever said to me into question. I'm not comparing this information to an outright lie, just saying that if it's false or highly distorted, it makes me wonder what else is false and distorted alongside it. There have been times where I've firmly believed and there've been times when I think that Jane Roberts must have been schizophrenic with her husband playing the part of complete enabler.Some of the Seth subjects that just don't "feel right" to me:- Many of the subjects about the "after life", like how there are classes to help and stuff like that. Maybe I'm just applying my current reality filters to it, but it made it seem like going to school and long meetings. It seems too structured, and that structure seems a lot like how many live their lives today. I have had enough school and meetings up to now in my life. I'd hate to think that what comes next is just another thing to throw on my phone, to make sure that I don't forget to show up on time. - Speakers.- Sumari.- Seth II- Atlantis- Astral ProjectionThat said, there are a lot more things that ring true with my feelings than those that don't. But there is no way that I've found to prove that any of it is true. Like religion, for me, it comes down to faith. Sometimes I have a lot of faith, and sometimes I find myself lacking. I guess everyone finds out for sure, once they move on from this reality. I have always admired the persistence and belief in those that are true believers in anything. It must be a relief to believe in something so much that it gives you peace.I have to say that I sure am glad that I found this group. I only personally know of one other person that's ever read Seth. She and I do not talk much anymore and based on our conversations, she's likely not into it any longer. It's nice to be able to talk with people who understand what I'm talking about.
Quote from: JoelrWell, what I was visualizing on for a year or so manifested in a very deliberate and surprising way, in what would be a large coincidence. But I also know very well about confirmation bias so how can I say for sure?
Quote from: DebI'm the type that will take anything anyone else says with a grain of salt, preferring to examine my own personal experiences and then decide whether what's happened could be proof or simply coincidence.
Quote from: JoelrI've never read any Jane authored books, does her writing style stack up in any way? In other words could Jane be making Seth up or is the quality of her personal work too far below Seth?
Quote from: JoelrEveryone was writing books and copying the same material. Even Deepak Chopra was like "uh, slow down people, it's not that simple..."And don't get me started on Ester and Jerry Hicks......oh my god..A lot of people were hurt trying to cure illness without medicine, or disappointed when they didnt' win the lottery or create this or that. It was a huge mess and the whole thing turned me off to metaphysics in a serious way.A lot of these people posted on a forum called Personal Development For Smart People and the buzzword "personal development" was a big thing.There were so many mis-lead people on that site who were "experts" on creating your reality and were going to win the lottery, channel Jesus, etc.....
Quote from: chasmanenjoying immensely all of this.thank you to all who posted.everyone.it gets a rise out of me, whenever I think of the term "god fearing".I much prefer a God thats a cool woman or guy.not someone to be feared. someone who loves us, and wants us to not be afraid.
Quote from: usmaakMy wife was just reading me a story about this teacher who introduced meditation to his classroom, in an attempt to teach mindfulness to his students. He was shut down because some good, god fearing Christians figured that meditation was a path to hell.
Quote from: chasmanso put that together with that religion is the opiate of the people.
Quote from: Deb[Yep, I get it. How can we say for sure whether something is proof or coincidence or us looking for confirmation of something we want to believe? On the other hand, we will dismiss things staring us in the face using the same bias. Eventually some of us get off the fence and pick a side, so to say."
Quote from: DebI really don't understand why so many horrendous things have been done in the name of religion. And not just Christianity.
Quote from: JoelrI know some people will say "you can't test psychic abilities with science" but that doesn't work for me.I feel like if it can't be quantified neither can giving a quantifiable prediction so it's a wash.
Quote from: DebYou've Googled "scientific proof of telepathy" ? There seems to be a lot of articles to look at. From sources like Yale Scientific, Smithsonian Magazine...Jeez, this topic has veered so far off course I'm not sure there's a way to split off posts to get us back on topic... I'll have to think about that.
Quote from: SenaJoel, I think Joseph Atwill is more plausible than the Great Seth story:"American Biblical scholar Joseph Atwill will be appearing before the British public for the first time in London on the 19th of October 2013 to present a controversial new discovery: ancient confessions recently uncovered now prove, according to Atwill, that the New Testament was written by first-century Roman aristocrats and that they fabricated the entire story of Jesus Christ. ....Atwill asserts that Christianity did not really begin as a religion, but a sophisticated government project, a kind of propaganda exercise used to pacify the subjects of the Roman Empire. "Jewish sects in Palestine at the time, who were waiting for a prophesied warrior Messiah, were a constant source of violent insurrection during the first century," he explains. "When the Romans had exhausted conventional means of quashing rebellion, they switched to psychological warfare. They surmised that the way to stop the spread of zealous Jewish missionary activity was to create a competing belief system. That's when the 'peaceful' Messiah story was invented. Instead of inspiring warfare, this Messiah urged turn-the-other-cheek pacifism and encouraged Jews to 'give onto Caesar' and pay their taxes to Rome."http://uk.prweb.com/releases/2013/10/prweb11201273.htm
Quote from: JoelrQuote from: SenaJoel, I think Joseph Atwill is more plausible than the Great Seth story:"American Biblical scholar Joseph Atwill will be appearing before the British public for the first time in London on the 19th of October 2013 to present a controversial new discovery: ancient confessions recently uncovered now prove, according to Atwill, that the New Testament was written by first-century Roman aristocrats and that they fabricated the entire story of Jesus Christ. ....Atwill asserts that Christianity did not really begin as a religion, but a sophisticated government project, a kind of propaganda exercise used to pacify the subjects of the Roman Empire. "Jewish sects in Palestine at the time, who were waiting for a prophesied warrior Messiah, were a constant source of violent insurrection during the first century," he explains. "When the Romans had exhausted conventional means of quashing rebellion, they switched to psychological warfare. They surmised that the way to stop the spread of zealous Jewish missionary activity was to create a competing belief system. That's when the 'peaceful' Messiah story was invented. Instead of inspiring warfare, this Messiah urged turn-the-other-cheek pacifism and encouraged Jews to 'give onto Caesar' and pay their taxes to Rome."http://uk.prweb.com/releases/2013/10/prweb11201273.htmUgg Atwill, beware of crank theories. Read Richard Carriers review post before taking Atwill serious.https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/4664"Joseph Atwill is one of those crank mythers I often get conflated with. Mythicists like him make the job of serious scholars like me so much harder, because people see, hear, or read them and think their nonsense is what mythicism is. They make mythicism look ridiculous. So I have to waste time (oh by the gods, so much time) explaining how I am not arguing anything like their theories or using anything like their terrible methods, and unlike them I actually know what I am talking about, and have an actual Ph.D. in a relevant subject from a real university......"
Quote from: Sena"Reviewing On the Historicity of Jesus: Why We Might Have Reason for Doubt, Christina Petterson of the University of Newcastle, Australia, in the academic journal Relegere, says Carrier's methodology is "tenuous", that she was "shocked" by the way he uses mathematics,and that Carrier uses statistics in a way that seems designed "to intentionally confuse and obfuscate". Petterson says that statements in the book "reveal Carrier's ignorance of the field of New Testament studies and early Christianity"."https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Carrier#Jesus_ahistoricity_theorySlanging matches appear to be the rule in Jesus studies.Joel, you and Carrier may well be right about Atwill. I am personally not inclined to take Jesus seriously.The gods of Candomblé are probably as credible as Jesus.
Quote from: Sena"Reviewing On the Historicity of Jesus: Why We Might Have Reason for Doubt, Christina Petterson of the University of Newcastle, Australia, in the academic journal Relegere, says Carrier's methodology is "tenuous", that she was "shocked" by the way he uses mathematics,and that Carrier uses statistics in a way that seems designed "to intentionally confuse and obfuscate". Petterson says that statements in the book "reveal Carrier's ignorance of the field of New Testament studies and early Christianity"."
Quote from: strangerthingsChrist believers, Horus believers, Hunahapu believers, are into the same concepts, for their own culture.
Quote from: SethThe texts were rewritten time and time again. In some ways Paul destroyed more than he saved. It took centuries for the theories to jell.
Quote from: chasmanhey Deb, you remind me of a term I read years ago...... Pauline Christianity:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauline_Christianity
Quote from: chasmanimagine instead a loving, unconditionally loving God and Lord.non-judgmental. nurturing. all forgiving. all caring.
Quote from: DebQuote from: SethThe texts were rewritten time and time again. In some ways Paul destroyed more than he saved. It took centuries for the theories to jell.Blame it all on Paul. Just sayin'."CHRIST'S VENTRILOQUISTS is a work of investigative history. It documents and describes Christianity's creation-event, which occurred in the year 49 or 50, in Antioch (present-day Antakya, Turkey), 20 years after Jesus had been crucified in Jerusalem for sedition against Roman rule. At this event, Paul broke away from the Jewish sect that Jesus had begun, and he took with him the majority of this new Jewish sect's members; he convinced these people that Jesus had been a god, and that the way to win eternal salvation in heaven is to worship him as such."[. . .]"This book also explains and documents the tortuous 14-year-long conflict Paul had had with this sect's leader, Jesus's brother James, a conflict which caused Paul, in about the year 50, to perpetrate his coup d'état against James, and to start his own new religion: Christianity. "Then, this historical probe documents that the four canonical Gospel accounts of the words and actions of "Jesus" were written decades after Jesus, by followers of Paul, not by followers of Jesus; and that these writings placed into the mouth of "Jesus" the agenda of Paul. Paul thus became, via his followers, Christ's ventriloquist."https://www.amazon.com/CHRISTS-VENTRILOQUISTS-Event-Created-Christianity-ebook/dp/B007Q1H4EG/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8
Quote from: chasmanwow. brutal.Jesus was teaching love.that quote from Paul does not paint a loving picture.imagine instead a loving, unconditionally loving God and Lord.non-judgmental. nurturing. all forgiving. all caring. those would be the God and Lord for me.
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