~Speaking of Seth~

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/52565764

As an adult I developed mixed feelings about vaccinations. When I was a kid I don't think there were many available at that point. All I remember were polio and tetanus, and kids were expected to catch measles, mumps and chicken pox and then be done with them. When my son was born, I got him the "required" but not mandated vaccines because the pediatrician scared me into them. I remember the physical reactions he had to them. Miserable. But if you don't get them, you're considered a negligent parent. And don't count on being able to get your child into any schools without an up-to-date vaccination record. Even his college required proof of up-to-date vaccinations.

"Today, the CDC recommends seventy-four doses of sixteen different vaccines from gestation to age eigh­teen; children receive the majority within the first six years of life, including the aluminum-containing hepatitis B vaccine at birth." from https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/ending-censorship-corruption-and-mandated-vaccination/

I've mentioned before, I'm just about convinced my son has type 1 diabetes because of the barrage of vaccines he had just before starting kindergarten. He was diagnosed 9 months later.

I'd heard over the years about some people being anti-vaxxers, but didn't get much information about why until I joined The Weston Price Foundation. A lot of their quarterly newsletters are devoted to revealing a lot of side effects and cover-ups surrounding vaccines. While many insist getting vaccinated is safe and the responsible thing to do (WHO in 2019, "the reluctance or refusal to vaccinate is among the top ten threats to global health "), in 1986 the US government passed the Childhood Vaccine Injury Act of 1986, because... vaccines are safe?

People who refuse vaccines (or some medical procedures) based on their religion are generally excused here in the US. But in 2019 NY abolished the religious exemption (Orthodox Jews, Amish, Mennonite, maybe more).

https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/how-impersonal-vaccine-laws-play-out-in-real-life-new-yorks-repeal-of-the-religious-exemption/

In my own little free world, I feel herd immunity is the best way to go, and I believe in free will and personal freedoms. I also view things (viruses, mass events, pandemics) differently since I found the Seth materials. I'm wary of vaccines because I've read too much about them. I sure hope the US does not make Covid vaccines mandatory, especially since so many people are testing positive for antibodies.

The argument vaxxers have is that those not vaccinated are endangering "everyone else." I could never understand that logic, because if "everyone else" has had their vaccinations, they should already be immune, right?

Quote from: Deb (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=16988#msg16988)
People who refuse vaccines (or some medical procedures) based on their religion are generally excused here in the US.

Deb, there may be a case for claiming that we belong to the Sethian religion.

Quote from: Deb (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=16988#msg16988)
The argument vaxxers have is that those not vaccinated are endangering "everyone else." I could never understand that logic, because if "everyone else" has had their vaccinations, they should already be immune, right?

It is expected that the vaccines will only provide about 50% immunity, similar to flu shots, so those who will be vaccinated will still be at risk.

Quote from: Deb (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=16988#msg16988)
In my own little free world, I feel herd immunity is the best way to go

In an article today, "Study: American public far from herd immunity" in the largest study yet looking for evidence of the disease in blood, about 9% of American adults have the antibody, while herd immunity requires 60-80%. Dr. George Rutherford, an epidemiologist and biostatistician at UC San Francisco said, "The only way we're going to get to herd immunity, unless you're in a very closed community like a prison, is for everybody to get vaccinated."

I will take the vaccine when I am convinced that it has not been rushed to market for political reasons and all protocols have been followed. Whatever negative side effects may be associated with a vaccine, they are likely to be far less damaging than what I might go through with the virus. I'm certainly not willing to take the chance that I and my loved ones will not be among the 60-80% who have to get the virus in order for herd immunity to be the solution.

Quote from: Deb (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=16988#msg16988)
In my own little free world, I feel herd immunity is the best way to go, and I believe in free will and personal freedoms.

Deb, with regard to herd immunity, there is an interesting article here:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2666535220300306#sec12

"Allowing the COVID-19 pandemic to run its course uncontrolled must not be permitted. None of the responses of countries internationally are optimal as partly reflected in their variability.......Hope in natural forces, effective and safe vaccines and curative treatments is important but, given uncertainty, we need to consider other, admittedly difficult, paths. Adults should now reflect on and debate, together with their elected policymakers and scientific advisers, the balance of risks they accept for themselves, versus the risks imposed to wider society, and thus directly inform potential strategies. Covid-19 is having a major impact on children and their voice needs to be heard. Ageism must be avoided whether through shielding or workplace policies that might inadvertently cause harm. Everyone has the right to balance risks and benefits in relation to their own quality of life. This pandemic is complex while the messages being given to the public are overly simplistic."

Quote from: Deb (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=16988#msg16988)
In my own little free world, I feel herd immunity is the best way to go, and I believe in free will and personal freedoms. I also view things (viruses, mass events, pandemics) differently since I found the Seth materials. I'm wary of vaccines because I've read too much about them. I sure hope the US does not make Covid vaccines mandatory, especially since so many people are testing positive for antibodies.

Quote from: LarryH (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=17000#msg17000)
I will take the vaccine when I am convinced that it has not been rushed to market for political reasons and all protocols have been followed. Whatever negative side effects may be associated with a vaccine, they are likely to be far less damaging than what I might go through with the virus. I'm certainly not willing to take the chance that I and my loved ones will not be among the 60-80% who have to get the virus in order for herd immunity to be the solution.

Hi Deb, Hi LarryH, Hi Sena, Hi All,

We're all Seth readers here and because of this, I'm kind of curious about some of the comments that some of you've made above.  I'm trying to figure out if you actually believe some of these things that you've said. My thinking here is that, as Seth readers, "maybe" you didn't actually mean what you said. On the other hand, you may very well have meant what you said.  It's OK with me if you do, I'm just trying to figure out where you actually stand on some of these comments.


Deb,

In your statement above, you said:

"I'm wary of vaccines because I've read too much about them."

Do you really believe this?

Does this mean that you think that vaccines can actually harm you, without it being your consent to be harmed by them?




LarryH,

In your statement above, you said:

Whatever negative side effects may be associated with a vaccine, they are likely to be far less damaging than what I might go through with the virus.

Do you really believe this?

Does this mean that you believe that the side effects are likely to be less damaging than the virus? It sounds like a reasonable "belief", for someone to have, if they are plan to take the vaccine. But it also sounds like you "believe" that the virus, will be much worse than the vaccine. Is that really true?




LarryH,

In your statement above, you said:

I'm certainly not willing to take the "chance" that I and my loved ones will not be among the 60-80% who have to get the virus in order for herd immunity to be the solution.

Do you really believe this?

Does this mean that you think that there's an element of "chance" or that "chance" plays a factor in your life?


-jbseth

Quote from: jbseth (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=17007#msg17007)
LarryH,

In your statement above, you said:

Whatever negative side effects may be associated with a vaccine, they are likely to be far less damaging than what I might go through with the virus.

Do you really believe this?

Does this mean that you believe that the side effects are likely to be less damaging than the virus? It sounds like a reasonable "belief", for someone to have, if they are plan to take the vaccine. But it also sounds like you "believe" that the virus, will be much worse than the vaccine. Is that really true?

I will soon be 71, therefore in an age group at high risk for serious complications from the virus. Many people who get the virus have multiple long-term serious problems, assuming they survive. I have never had a problem with vaccines. Perhaps that is because I "believe" that they will not have an adverse effect on me. I also "believe" that I am unlikely to get the virus, but that is not a guarantee. I want to do what I can to hasten the time when I can once again engage in person-to-person contact with reduced risk that I could be a carrier. The sooner we achieve herd immunity (which I believe will only happen through the majority of the population getting vaccinated), the sooner society can get back to some kind of normal. I would be doing my part by respecting the beliefs of the majority. Seth said that if you believe in the medical establishment, you had better use it. However, I am alright with the vaccines being voluntary for most people. My guess is that they will at least be mandatory for the medical profession. When I was designing medical devices and had to visit hospitals as part of my job, even I had to be up-to-date with a variety of vaccines.

Quote from: jbseth (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=17007#msg17007)
In your statement above, you said:

I'm certainly not willing to take the "chance" that I and my loved ones will not be among the 60-80% who have to get the virus in order for herd immunity to be the solution.

Do you really believe this?

Does this mean that you think that there's an element of "chance" or that "chance" plays a factor in your life?

This was in the context of achieving herd immunity without a vaccine, which would require 60-80% of the population to get the virus. Currently, about 9% of the U.S. population carries the antibody. Therefore, we would need 7X to 9X the number of cases up to now to achieve herd immunity. Clearly, this would increase the likelihood of getting the virus. At least 200 million Americans would have to "create" getting the virus. Call it chance, call it a logical statistical conclusion, but I don't see a way of getting around that. I have considerable control on the "chance" of me getting the virus, but I have less control of everyone I am close to and the 330,000,000 others who I don't know, and I would rather not see any of them go through what over 7 million have gone through in the U.S. so far. I would rather we learn our lessons in a less painful way.

The "chance" that I will get hit by a car is virtually nil. And yet I still look both ways before crossing the street.

Quote from: LarryH (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=17008#msg17008)
I will soon be 71, therefore in an age group at high risk for serious complications from the virus.

Larry, welcome to the 71 club. I am the same age, and I also suffer from asthma. I am pretty sure that I had the virus in March, although tests were not available then. It was an unpleasant illness, but not as bad as the flu I had some years ago.

Why didn't I die in March? It is because my Inner Self had not decided to die at that time. It seems to me that you disagree with a fundamental Seth concept. You believe that the virus causes death, and that the Inner Self has no say in the matter.

"I am speaking generally here, for remember that your individual beliefs, thoughts, and emotions cause your reality, so no person dies ahead of his or her time. The individual chooses the time of death. It is true, however, that many cancers and conditions such as AIDS result because the immunity system has been so tampered with that the body has not been allowed to follow through with its own balancing procedures.

Again, however, no individual dies of cancer or AIDS, or any other condition, until they themselves have set the time."

—WTH Chapter 6: April 25, 1984

"The day of death is known. Consciously such knowledge is not given to the ego for obvious reasons, but every organism, through its inner senses, is equipped with subconscious knowledge of personal disasters, deaths, and so forth, the personality itself deciding beforehand what it considers disastrous; and the members of the species as a whole know in advance of their wars." (from "The Early Sessions: Book 2 of The Seth Material" by Jane Roberts, Robert Butts)

https://amzn.eu/0xAJg5F

Hi LarryH, Hi All,

Thanks for your reply LarryH.

First of all, let me just say that I'll soon be 66 and so I get the high risk age group concept with COVID-19. However, that being said, my beliefs about this may be different than yours.

I'm beginning to think that there really may be something to what Seth says about "counterparts". I think that, on some level, we're all counterparts of each other. Each one of us, in expressing who we are, via our various ideas and beliefs, are some of the various expressions of "All That Is", so that "All That Is" can come to know itself. That being the case, none of us would or should have the exact same ideas and beliefs about everything.



You pointed out that Seth said something to the effect that as long as you believe in the medical establishment, you had better use it. You are absolutely correct about this, and I think he's probably correct about this statement. Those people who do believe in it, should use it.

While this statement did at one time, describe me as well, it doesn't describe me so much anymore. For myself, I've come across too many other stories that puts some major chinks in the armor of the beliefs that are held by the medical establishment.

These include the story told by the psychologist Bruno Klopfer about a man named Mr. Wright who had advanced lymph node cancer and Krebiozen. As the story goes, Mr. Wright "believed" that this treatment Krebiozen, would work and shortly after getting a treatment he became cancer free. Then he heard that it didn't work, and his cancer came back. After this, his psychologist convinced Mr. Wright that the stories weren't true for his situation and Mr. Write improved again. Then, the AMA announced that Krebiozen was worthless and Mr. Wright's cancer returned, blossomed and he died of cancer. This story is in Chapter 4 of, "The Holographic Universe".

Along with this, also located in Chapter 4 of, "The Holographic Universe" is the story of the person with multiple personalities, who had multiple personalities who were allergic to orange juice, (these personalities would break out in a rash if they drank OJ) but one personality didn't (that personality could drink OK and not get the rash). There is also an incredible story in this same chapter about a person with multiple personalities who was stung by a wasp. In regards to this, way back in May of 1966, in TES6, S256, (page 135) Seth says that the reason that this type of thing occurs is because, each personality has a completely different physical body. The bodies look nearly identical but are, in fact, different. This explanation, as incredible as it is, seems very plausible to me when I think about it.

Then, along with these types of stories, there's the incredible story told in the book, "Dying to be Me" by Anita Moorjani. This is the story of her experiences with extreme late stage cancer, a NDE experience while on her deathbed, and then a full recovery from cancer including a complete remission. 

It is these types of stories that suggest to me that, at least for some people, call it what you want, belief, faith, the placebo effect, or whatever, they seem to have some ability to affect their health, largely by their beliefs. To some degree, this is more or less what Seth says about beliefs and health. The medical establishment, as a general rule, does not acknowledge this. At least partly because it doesn't match their established beliefs about disease and how it works.


You also quoted some ideas that I personally think might be "beliefs" and as such, may or may not necessarily be "true", such as:

- Herd mentality would require 60-80% of the population to get the virus.
- Currently, about 9% of the U.S. population carries the antibody.
- Therefore, we would need 7X to 9X the number of cases up to achieve herd immunity.
- Clearly, this would increase the likelihood of getting the virus.
- At least 200 million Americans would have to "create" getting the virus.
- Call it chance, call it a logical statistical conclusion, but I don't see a way of getting around that.

But again, this is just my perspective on things.


Along with this, you also stated the following:

I have considerable control on the "chance" of me getting the virus, but I have less control of everyone I am close to and the 330,000,000 others who I don't know, and I would rather not see any of them go through what over 7 million have gone through in the U.S. so far.

So far this year, in January, my sister died of cancer and then in April, my brother died of dementia. In talking about this, I'm not looking for sympathy here, but I have come to the realization, that I really don't have much of control over what others are going to choose for themselves. I didn't want either one of them to die this year, but that was their path and not my choice.

If it turns out that over the next 5 years, 3 billion people, here on earth choose to die of Covid-19, do you really think that there is anything you can do to stop that?   

I'm not sure that I can, if that is what people are going to choose for themselves. On the other hand, perhaps we can choose a different probable future by placing our belief in one where that doesn't occur.


Finally, you said:

The "chance" that I will get hit by a car is virtually nil. And yet I still look both ways before crossing the street.

Yes. I understand this. For me, on the cul-de-sac where I live, the chance of me getting hit by a car, if I didn't stop and look both ways first, is also virtually nil. However, there is a four lane road with very heavy traffic on it some of the time about a mile away from where I live. I would also say that depending upon the time of day, the chance of me getting hit by a car on that road, if I didn't stop and look both ways first, is probably pretty close to 100%.

I also understand that gravity is a root assumption for this physical universe. If I chose to step out of the window, on the tenth floor of a building, all of the "belief" that I can muster, probably isn't going to do much to prevent me from falling to my death.

On a personal path, I'm still working on the issue of how and where and when to apply Seth's various concepts to my life. Thank you for giving me this opportunity to share.

-jbseth

Quote from: Sena (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=17009#msg17009)
I am pretty sure that I had the virus in March, although tests were not available then. It was an unpleasant illness, but not as bad as the flu I had some years ago.

I know someone who was certain that he had the virus around the same time, but he later tested negative for the antibody.

Quote from: Sena (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=17009#msg17009)
Why didn't I die in March? It is because my Inner Self had not decided to die at that time. It seems to me that you disagree with a fundamental Seth concept. You believe that the virus causes death, and that the Inner Self has no say in the matter.

I am far less concerned about dying than I am about the potential for a slew of horrible medical problems for months, if not years, whether or not they lead to death. I am also far less concerned for myself than for my loved ones.

Quote from: jbseth (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=17011#msg17011)
You also quoted some ideas that I personally think might be "beliefs" and as such, may or may not necessarily be "true"

Yes, I quoted some scientific data that I trust more than my ability to "believe" otherwise. I choose to trust scientists and medical professionals more than politicians who denigrate them. That being said, I also absolutely believe in those examples that you cited of spontaneous remissions, etc. I do not claim that the medical profession or science are infallible or that we need to place all of our trust in them.

Now, consider the art of ritual. Is it the ritual that creates the magic, or is the ritual a form of autosuggestion, thus a form of self-empowerment? I consider getting a vaccine as a ritual on behalf of maintaining health. I suggest that if one believes that a vaccine will be more harmful than not getting vaccinated, then you had better not get vaccinated. You would be setting yourself up for all manner of side effects.

Quote from: jbseth (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=17011#msg17011)
If it turns out that over the next 5 years, 3 billion people, here on earth choose to die of Covid-19, do you really think that there is anything you can do to stop that? 

I can choose a reality in which that does not happen if I believe Seth. But that is inner work. There is also outer work, playing in the sandbox of physical reality. In outer work, my influence is highly limited. Of course, I cannot change the choices of 3 billion people, nor have I said that I could. I'm just pushing the sand around in my little corner of the sandbox, playing with you and my other playmates, pretending that there's something serious going on and debating what we should do about it.  :)

Quote from: LarryH (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=17012#msg17012)
I am far less concerned about dying than I am about the potential for a slew of horrible medical problems for months, if not years, whether or not they lead to death. I am also far less concerned for myself than for my loved ones.

Larry, my understanding of Seth is that the same principle applies whether it is death or a "horrible medical condition". It won't happen unless your Inner Self agrees to it. I can understand your concern for your loved ones. They each have an Inner Self looking out for them.

Quote from: jbseth (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=17011#msg17011)
So far this year, in January, my sister died of cancer and then in April, my brother died of dementia. In talking about this, I'm not looking for sympathy here, but I have come to the realization, that I really don't have much of control over what others are going to choose for themselves. I didn't want either one of them to die this year, but that was their path and not my choice.

jbseth, that is an important realization that you have come to. My understanding of Seth is that although the death of an individual is painful for the relatives and friends, for the person who dies, death is no big deal. It is just a step on the spiritual path.

"There is no separate, indivisible, specific point of death. Life is a state of becoming, and death is a part of this process of becoming. You are alive now, a consciousness knowing itself, sparkling with cognition amid a debris of dead and dying cells; alive while the atoms and molecules of your body die and are reborn. You are alive, therefore, in the midst of small deaths; portions of your own image crumble away moment by moment and are replaced, and you scarcely give the matter a thought. So you are to some extent now alive in the midst of the death of yourself — alive despite, and yet because of, the multitudinous deaths and rebirths that occur within your body in physical terms." (from "Seth Speaks: The Eternal Validity of the Soul (A Seth Book)" by Jane Roberts)

https://amzn.eu/evgaYFZ

"Birth and death then have their function, intensifying and focusing your attention. Life seems more dear in your terms, corporeal terms, because of the existence of death. It seems, perhaps, easier to have no conscious idea of the year or time that death might occur. Unconsciously of course each man and woman knows, and yet hides the knowledge." (from "The Nature of Personal Reality: Specific, Practical Techniques for Solving Everyday Problems and Enriching the Life You Know (A Seth Book)" by Jane Roberts)

https://amzn.eu/guD2Yxq

How is fear of a vaccination different from fear of a pandemic? As Seth readers, are we supposed to feel safe from a pandemic but not safe from a vaccination?

If I should choose to forego vaccination and then become a carrier without symptoms and infect a loved one, do I have an excuse to not feel a pang of guilt because that loved one "chose" to get the virus?

If I leave a loaded gun on the coffee table for a child to find and play with, and that child accidently shoots herself, Oh, well, I guess she "chose" to die. How Sethian. My point here is that part of the equation is that we have a responsibility in the physical world over and above Sethian concepts where "time doesn't exist", "there is no cause and effect", "nobody dies who does not want to die", etc. We are playing in a sandbox where we pretend that rocks are hard, water is wet, the laws of physics are real, we get in trouble if we are late for work ("But boss, time doesn't exist!"). If anyone here is applying Sethian concepts fully and consistently, let them throw the first illusionary stone.

Quote from: LarryH (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=17015#msg17015)
How Sethian. My point here is that part of the equation is that we have a responsibility in the physical world over and above Sethian concepts where "time doesn't exist", "there is no cause and effect", "nobody dies who does not want to die", etc.

Larry, may I ask what aspects of the Seth teaching you agree with?

Quote from: LarryH (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=17015#msg17015)
If I leave a loaded gun on the coffee table for a child to find and play with, and that child accidently shoots herself, Oh, well, I guess she "chose" to die. How Sethian.

Hi LarryH, Hi All,

Over the years, I've heard several people say something like this and it always amazes me as to how or why they come to this conclusion.  From my perspective, I don't believe that Seth ever intended that his messages be interpreted this way. I also think that he would have been very disappointed, (if it was possible to make Seth disappointed) both in himself in his failure to clarify this point as a teacher, and in those people who chose to interpret his teachings in this way.


Yes, I do think that a female child will pick up a loaded gun left there by her parent, and kill herself in some situations. Unfortunately this does happen on occasion. From Seth's perspective I interpret what he has to say about this kind of thing as follows. There are no accidents. This is a situation where the child agreed to give her parent a valuable lesson having to do with "responsibly".

Never, however, did he seem to suggest that it was OK for people to have a cavalier belief about situations like this, in terms of, "Oh well, she chose to die".


In fact, it's interesting that you chose to use this specific example because in TES9, S452, Seth says the following:

"You do not give a child a loaded gun if you are certain he is going to shoot himself or his neighbor."

https://findingseth.com/q/session:452+child/

Thus, here he seems to be suggesting that people NOT do this.




Then, along with this, in TES7, immediately after session 303, there is a section titled, Gene Asks About Past Lives.  In this section, Seth and Dr. Gene Bernard are philosophically debating Eastern Religious ideas. In this debate Dr. Bernard seems to be indicating that life is just all an illusion, what does anything matter. In response to this, Seth seems to be countering that life does matter or at least it behooves us to understand what it is that's important. Here's the ending of that dialogue between Gene and Seth.


You are indeed now playing a game with yourself, but it is not relevant, and it may be irrelevant. But you had better play it reverently.

([Gene]: "With reverence for whom?")

With reverence indeed toward the self.

([Gene]: "With reverence for whom?")

There is a holy irreverence and a flighty irreverence. You are playing a game. They are both one. But you had better be certain that you know this thoroughly. Now I suggest you rest.



Finally, Seth often talks about "value fulfillment". In UR1, S697, Seth seems to be implying that our value fulfillment may be somewhat dependent upon mankind helping each other out, when we can achieve the type of brotherhood that is possessed by the cells.  Here's what he says.





It seems to me that these ideas from Seth are very inconsistent with the cavalier belief about a child who accidently kills herself with a loaded gun I left on a coffee table.  A belief of, "Oh, well, I guess she "chose" to die. 

To me, that belief is definitely not anything that is "Sethian".


-jbseth

Quote from: LarryH (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=17015#msg17015)
How is fear of a vaccination different from fear of a pandemic? As Seth readers, are we supposed to feel safe from a pandemic but not safe from a vaccination?

If I should choose to forego vaccination and then become a carrier without symptoms and infect a loved one, do I have an excuse to not feel a pang of guilt because that loved one "chose" to get the virus?

If I leave a loaded gun on the coffee table for a child to find and play with, and that child accidently shoots herself, Oh, well, I guess she "chose" to die. How Sethian. My point here is that part of the equation is that we have a responsibility in the physical world over and above Sethian concepts where "time doesn't exist", "there is no cause and effect", "nobody dies who does not want to die", etc. We are playing in a sandbox where we pretend that rocks are hard, water is wet, the laws of physics are real, we get in trouble if we are late for work ("But boss, time doesn't exist!"). If anyone here is applying Sethian concepts fully and consistently, let them throw the first illusionary stone.

Hi LarryH, Hi All,

Those are legitimate comments so, let's talk about them.



How is fear of a vaccination different from fear of a pandemic?

I don't think it is. Fear if fear. If you dwell on fearful things you can create them in your reality.



As Seth readers, are we supposed to feel safe from a pandemic but not safe from a vaccination?

I don't think that Seth ever said that.



If I should choose to forego vaccination and then become a carrier without symptoms and infect a loved one, do I have an excuse to not feel a pang of guilt because that loved one "chose" to get the virus?

First of all, how would you even know whether you were a carrier without symptoms?

Then, even if you did somehow determine that you were a carrier, wouldn't you then tell your loved ones about this, so that they could do what's necessary for themselves to minimize the risk until the condition / risk somehow changed for you and them.

Next, let's say that one or more of your loved one's live with you, and they haven't been either vaccinated and they also haven't had the virus.  After you find out that you are a carrier, and communicate with them about this, then the decision is between you and them about what to do that is the best for all involved. There are probably at least several options here, some of which may involve one or more of you taking some sort of risk.

If the risks are known by all, and people opt to live with you knowing that they are at risk, then that is their choice in the matter.

Finally, let's say that one of them got the virus. How would you know for certain that they got it from you?  They may have decided to get this virus, on their own, and chose to do so by activating the virus that existed within their very own body.  How would anyone ever know for certain that this didn't happen instead? Seth does say that we all contain, all the viruses inside of us.



"do I have an "excuse" to not feel a pang of "guilt" because that loved one "chose" to get the virus?"

Do you need an "excuse" to not feel a pang of "guilt" because that loved one "chose" to create their reality and get the virus?


We are playing in a sandbox where we pretend that rocks are hard, water is wet, the laws of physics are real, we get in trouble if we are late for work ("But boss, time doesn't exist!"). If anyone here is applying Sethian concepts fully and consistently, let them throw the first illusionary stone.

Yes we are, I completely agree. Along with this, we are also playing in a sand box where our beliefs can limit us from greater experiences, where synchronistic events occur all the time, where psychics like John Edward, Judith Orloff and Allison DuBios and Ingo Swann, seem to have some capabilities that science claims either can't or doesn't exist. We are playing in a sandbox, where Seth came along and gave us some pretty amazing concepts and ideas like "you create your reality" and "the point of power is in the present" and many of us are trying to figure out just where and how these concepts can and do apply to our world. We are playing in a sand box where some of our previously held beliefs about things, may not, in fact, be valid.

-jbseth

Quote from: Sena (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=17016#msg17016)
Larry, may I ask what aspects of the Seth teaching you agree with?

Far easier to say what aspects I do not agree with, or to put it more precisely, what aspects I question. Very few, in fact the only teachings I can think of off-hand are those discussed in this thread. Even those, I fundamentally feel that there is truth. We know that, as Seth has said, there can be distortion in the material. We also know that Jane mistrusted the medical establishment. That is enough to allow a little questioning. I believe that you have challenged other Seth teachings, so maybe we are about at the same level of acceptance, just different topics.

Quote from: jbseth (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=17017#msg17017)
Quote from: LarryH
If I leave a loaded gun on the coffee table for a child to find and play with, and that child accidently shoots herself, Oh, well, I guess she "chose" to die. How Sethian.

Hi LarryH, Hi All,

Over the years, I've heard several people say something like this and it always amazes me as to how or why they come to this conclusion.  From my perspective, I don't believe that Seth ever intended that his messages be interpreted this way.

I was being sarcastic. I don't believe for a moment that such an event calls for such a cavalier attitude, just as I don't believe that peoples' personal behavior regarding the pandemic does not matter because of a belief that it's peoples' choice to die or suffer with the virus. It's not that this is not true. It's that it's not an excuse to do what we can to end the pandemic. We all want the world's economies to recover. In order for that to happen, we need to achieve herd immunity. I happen to believe that the fastest, least dangerous way to do that is via vaccines. If enough people do not get the vaccine because they think it is dangerous, they may be delaying herd immunity and thus the world's economies.

Quote from: jbseth (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=17018#msg17018)
"As Seth readers, are we supposed to feel safe from a pandemic but not safe from a vaccination?"

I don't think that Seth ever said that.

Lynda Dahl, based on Seth's teachings, wrote 'We Live in a Safe Universe'. Seth spoke negatively about vaccines. It seems like a contradiction to me. I am not afraid of vaccinations. It seems that many Seth readers are.

Quote from: jbseth (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=17018#msg17018)
First of all, how would you even know whether you were a carrier without symptoms?

Maybe I have to get tested for my job and test positive. I'm not going to answer all of your questions. You are picking fly shit out of the pepper just to try to delegitimize my point. Suffice it to say that the scenario that I described is possible.

Quote from: jbseth (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=17018#msg17018)
Seth does say that we all contain, all the viruses inside of us.

I seriously doubt that Covid-19 is in all of us. It might be true for common viruses, but I really question Seth on that "all" viruses?

Quote from: LarryH (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=17023#msg17023)
I'm not going to answer all of your questions. You are picking fly shit out of the pepper just to try to delegitimize my point.

Hi LarryH, Hi All,

I didn't expect you to answer all of my comments. Nor was I trying to delegitimize your point.  I was only trying to point out some of the thoughts I had about your comment. I wasn't sure if I was on the right track, or if perhaps you meant something else.

Peace. I meant no offense. 

-jbseth

Quote from: jbseth (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=17018#msg17018)
Along with this, we are also playing in a sand box where our beliefs can limit us from greater experiences, where synchronistic events occur all the time, where psychics like John Edward, Judith Orloff and Allison DuBios and Ingo Swann, seem to have some capabilities that science claims either can't or doesn't exist.

jbseth, that is a great analogy, "playing in a sand box". What that implies for me is that we should not take Covid 19 too seriously. I am familiar with Ingo Swann, but not the others. I'll look them up. Would you add Sylvia Browne to the list?


Ingo Swann on "fear":

"Fear has always played an over-large role throughout written human history, and in pre-
history, too, throughout which fear-sagas were forwarded via oral traditions in all cultures.
It is therefore surprising that the topic of fear, as a major human component of our species
entire, has not been given much philosophical consideration. At least there is no major entry for it in
the otherwise all-inclusive ENCYCLOPEDIA OF PHILOSOPHY (in eight volumes) published in
1967, edited by Paul Edwards, and which covers some 2,000 years of philosophical discourse. Fear
is mentioned only twice in the Index – in association with death and tragedy.
This considerable omission, one can suppose, is more than just mysterious, being neigh on
inexplicable. After all, it is quite obvious that FEAR, or fear of it, has always constituted one of the
major "drives" of the collective consciousness of our species – as well as our collective
unconscious."

The remarks about fear are relevant because it helps us understand why many people are affected by fear regarding Covid 19, and are irrational about it.

Seth on fear:

"The immobility showed itself physically in faithful replica to the inner immobilization caused by fear. You could see, in other words, the exact extent of the distortion in quite physical terms."

"This response to fear is a danger to psychic work, where freedom is necessary. In projections most of all the self must be mobile. Rapidity of perception, mobility of consciousness, openness of emotional response, are prerequisites for our work. The fearful spirit fears to leave the body, and fears to reside in it also. Ruburt has my congratulations, for he has now successfully passed a period of trial."
—TES7 Session 297 October 26, 1966

https://www.unknowncountry.com/headline-news/scientists-developing-a-vaccine-that-spreads-like-a-virus-what-could-go-wrong/ (https://www.unknowncountry.com/headline-news/scientists-developing-a-vaccine-that-spreads-like-a-virus-what-could-go-wrong/)

Quote from: LarryH (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=17031#msg17031)
https://www.unknowncountry.com/headline-news/scientists-developing-a-vaccine-that-spreads-like-a-virus-what-could-go-wrong/ (https://www.unknowncountry.com/headline-news/scientists-developing-a-vaccine-that-spreads-like-a-virus-what-could-go-wrong/)

"However, the researchers admit a virus used to transmit a vaccine could evolve back to its original harmful state and thus cause "unintended" consequences."

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1340352/coronavirus-vaccine-covid19-self-spreading-vaccine

"Two staff members at a hospital in India who tested positive for the new coronavirus became reinfected several months later — and had no symptoms in either instance.

The hospital employees, a 25-year-old-man and a 28-year-old woman, worked in the COVID-19 ward. Both tested positive for SARS-CoV-2 in May, although neither had symptoms (V. Gupta et al. Clin. Inf. Dis. https://doi.org/d97d; 2020). After testing negative, they returned to work. Both tested positive again roughly three-and-a-half months after the first positive test. Neither had symptoms, but both had higher levels of virus than in May."

"The results suggest that asymptomatic reinfections are often underreported, the authors say."

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00502-w

Quote from: Sena (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=17027#msg17027)
I am familiar with Ingo Swann, but not the others. I'll look them up. Would you add Sylvia Browne to the list?

Hi Sena, Hi All,

In this list, I was trying to include the names of people who have seemingly demonstrated, in one way or another, some sort of legitimate psychic gift. As I'm thinking about this now, I also could have added Jane Roberts and, in my opinion, Sue Watkins, (Jane's friend) to this list.

You noticed that Sylvia Browne's name was not on this list.  That was intentional; I'm not sure about her.

I'm familiar with Ingo Swann's name, from several "Remote Viewing" books that I've read. I know that there were also several other people, having to do with remote viewing that also seemed to have demonstrated a psychic gift but at the moment I wrote this, none of them came to mind.

I'm curious, how did you become familiar with him? Was it from Remote Viewing, or something else?

Is there anyone that you would have added?

-John

I would add Edgar Cayce, Joseph McMoneagle, Lyn Buchanan, and Theresa Caputo.

Quote from: LarryH (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=17034#msg17034)
would add Edgar Cayce, Joseph McMoneagle, Lyn Buchanan, and Theresa Caputo.

Hi LarryH, Hi All,

Yea, I agree LarryH. Thanks for those additions.

I think that it was Joseph and Lyn that I was probably thinking about, in regards to remote viewing.

Of the 4 of them, I'm much less familiar with Theresa, but from what I've heard, she also seems to have some psychic abilities, kind of like John Edward.

Didn't you say at some point in the past that you saw her or might have a chance to go see her?

If so, how was it?

-jbseth

Quote from: jbseth (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=17033#msg17033)
I'm familiar with Ingo Swann's name, from several "Remote Viewing" books that I've read. I know that there were also several other people, having to do with remote viewing that also seemed to have demonstrated a psychic gift but at the moment I wrote this, none of them came to mind.

I'm curious, how did you become familiar with him? Was it from Remote Viewing, or something else?

jbseth, I had read about his remote viewing. The quote above is from his book "The Wisdom Category". I have downloaded this book and could let you have a copy if I have your email address.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/25429675-the-wisdom-category

The other writer I would recommend is Gregg Braden, but he is not really a psychic.

Quote from: jbseth (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=17036#msg17036)
Of the 4 of them, I'm much less familiar with Theresa, but from what I've heard, she also seems to have some psychic abilities, kind of like John Edward.

Didn't you say at some point in the past that you saw her or might have a chance to go see her?

Yes, I saw her 2 or 3 years ago along with about 12,000 others. She's a character.

Quote from: Sena (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=17037#msg17037)
jbseth, I had read about his remote viewing. The quote above is from his book "The Wisdom Category". I have downloaded this book and could let you have a copy if I have your email address.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/25429675-the-wisdom-category

The other writer I would recommend is Gregg Braden, but he is not really a psychic.

Hi Sena,

Regarding the Ingo Swann book, thank you very much for your kind offer, but I think I'll pass at this time.

You speak very highly of Gregg Braden. I'm curious about his background.

Do you know much about the man, himself? For example, is he just a writer, is he a philosopher, do you have any idea where he gets his ideas?

-jbseth

Quote from: jbseth (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=17045#msg17045)
Do you know much about the man, himself? For example, is he just a writer, is he a philosopher, do you have any idea where he gets his ideas?

jbseth, this audio interview with Braden may answer some of your questions:

https://radioideaxme.com/2020/04/17/covid-19-a-tale-of-collective-imagination/

Hi guys, so sorry that I've been out of the loop for a few days. I was incredibly busy with some unexpected work etc., and have been trying to get everything done since I had a road trip planned for next Monday. I've been following along here as much as possible, and working on a response when I got a minute or two here and there. It turns out it's going to be fairly long, but stuff important enough to me. BTW I had to cancel my road trip this morning. It was my "The Road to Elmira" trip, I was going to drive out to Elmira and then New Haven, visit with Laurel, Kate, Oshara, Mary and then a NJ friend. But last night NY/NJ/CT suddenly decided that Colorado is one of the "forbidden" states, and I'd have to quarantine for 14 days from my date of arrival. Nope. But at least the Airbnbs didn't give me a hard time with full refunds. I'd planned to do this trip in April or May, but had to reschedule due to covid. Ah well, maybe next spring.

Quote from: jbseth (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=17007#msg17007)
Deb,
In your statement above, you said:
"I'm wary of vaccines because I've read too much about them."
Do you really believe this?
Does this mean that you think that vaccines can actually harm you, without it being your consent to be harmed by them?

No, that's not what I meant. I just don't think they are that effective and am not convinced I need one. My issue is with a mandatory vaccination. I feel I have the right to choose.

I became suspicious of flu shots when local grocery stores were putting up signs and paying for radio ads saying, "Get a FREE flu shot here and save 10% on your grocery bill!" and other perks. Every time I'd walk into a grocery store people would be pushing flu shots. I started to think it was a racket. Big Pharma is a giant money-making business and I'm also not keen on "oh we've a pill for that!" mentality. Our bodies are amazingly adaptable and very competent healers unless an injury or illness is egregious. But I've also read enough stories of spontaneous deathbed healings to know that anything is possible. The mind is an incredible thing. Just look at placebos and nocebos.

As far as covid, I've had my suspicions all along about that too, the way things have been handled compared to other recent pandemics. It almost felt like a social experiment. I did read a Weston Price article (https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/covid-19-pursuing-truth-to-protect-our-liberties/) that sort of reflects some of the things I've questioned.

Here are some interesting tidbits from the article that I'd not heard before, and these all have footnote references in the actual article:

• "In Italy... more than 99 percent of all coronavirus fatalities were in people who suffered from previous  medical conditions. Another contextual factor that one must consider is that Italy administered a new form of influenza vaccine to elderly Italian for the 2018/2019 season that contained four different strains... According to the US National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program, influenza vaccines cause more injuries and death than all other vaccines combined."

• A section titled "Funny Business With Testing" describes the two different types of CV testing, explains the reason for the false positives and inadequacies.

• In the section "The Infamous Wuhan Lab" shows the individual with the first reported case of CV had no link to the wet market. The Wuhan Institute houses more than 1,500 strains of deadly viruses. It's their specialty.

• The section on herd immunity covers our symbiotic relationship with viruses and bacteria, calling them the "building blocks of our immune system."

• In the section "The Ringleaders," Fauci is quoted: "I hope we do not have so many people infected that we actually have herd immunity." Gates said something similar. Gates committed $10 billion to the WHO in 2010, saying "We must make this the decade of vaccines."

• The same section explains the different new approach towards a vaccine for CV, mRNA and DNA vaccines, where our bodies are given a genetic code to produce the antigen itself, rather than injecting the body with weak or dead pathogens—rewriting our genetic code. I like my genetic code just the way it is.

• In the section "Follow the Money," Moderna announced in April an award to BARDA for up to $483 Million to accelerate an mRNA vaccine.

• Same section: "when only eleven Covid-19 cases were active in the U.S.—HHS followed up with a formal declaration published in the Federal Register confirming that coronavirus vaccine manufacturers will benefit from full immunity from liability. As a result, no American will be able to sue for coronavirus vaccine-related injuries or deaths unless they are able to achieve the nearly impossible task of showing that the government or a manufacturer engaged in "willful misconduct." "

• I'll stop with the "Wait, There's More" section which talks about digital tracking administered by the vaccine.

Not related to the above article, the CDC released updated CV survival rate data (https://tallahasseereports.com/2020/09/26/cdc-releases-updated-covid-19-fatality-rate-data/) which I think is enlightening:

CDC COVID-19 Survival Rates
      Age 0-19 — 99.997%
      Age 20-49 — 99.98%
      Age 50-69 — 99.5%
      Age 70+ — 94.6%

Pretty encouraging, huh?

Update: I had to add this photo I took at a local mall the other day. Needless to say, I didn't go in. Oh, and a pic of an embarrassed bat, only because it's cute. Never thought I'd say that about a bat.

Hi All,

Hi Deb,

That's a drag about your road trip.  I think a 2nd round of lockdowns is on the way, sadly.

" The same section explains the different new approach towards a vaccine for CV, mRNA and DNA vaccines, where our bodies are given a genetic code to produce the antigen itself, rather than injecting the body with weak or dead pathogens—rewriting our genetic code. I like my genetic code just the way it is."

That's my main objection at this point. I don't think the people designing this vaccine are  intelligent and or morally trustworthy enough to be tampering with humanity's and especially my DNA!

If it was just a normal vaccine, and there really were a provable, significant amount of ill people, I would take a vaccine no problem. I still think that all of this is something other than what's it's advertised as.

Quote from: Deb (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=17047#msg17047)
BTW I had to cancel my road trip this morning. It was my "The Road to Elmira" trip, I was going to drive out to Elmira and then New Haven, visit with Laurel, Kate, Oshara, Mary and then a NJ friend. But last night NY/NJ/CT suddenly decided that Colorado is one of the "forbidden" states, and I'd have to quarantine for 14 days from my date of arrival. Nope. But at least the Airbnbs didn't give me a hard time with full refunds.

Hi Deb, Hi All,

On man, I'm really bummed out for you.  :(

I was looking forward to hearing about this trip and hearing all about your visit at Elmira. At least you found out about the 14 day quarantine before you left.


Yeah, I'm with you on what you said about the vaccines. I don't feel that I'm personally at risk if I were to be given a vaccine, but I'm not to sure I like the idea of some "official" telling me that I have to get one.

I've been in the military. I've seen some of the stupid things that government organizations can do.



In regards to your trip to Elmira, one of the things that they reiterate in the New Thought that I sometimes attend, is the somewhat Sethian type of belief,

"If not this, then something better".

Maybe this trip had to be cancelled now, so that your inner self could arrange an even better for you in the future.  There are no accidents.   :)

- jbseth

Well I've long felt that everything happens for a reason, whether we know what the reason is or not. I guess that now explains my hesitation to seriously get busy packing up my suitcase and car. I'm hopeful for spring.

Mary and I were also going to drive up to Saratoga Springs during my New Haven visit, which we can still do in spring. And right now the Yale library is off limits due to covid, so maybe by then it will re-open. I've love to see the Roberts collection, but I was willing to go now anyway.

Funny thing, on impulse I called Mary this morning while I was trying to cancel some reservations, and she said she was right in the middle of an email to me, which has happened before. I had sent her my Airbnb confirmation so she would know the address, and she said that Rich Kendall had lived in that same apartment building at one time! How amazing would that be, if I had rented Rich's old apartment? And here I had been sad that I wouldn't be able to meet him in person. You can't make this stuff up.

Yes, there are no accidents. And they also say, "the third time is the charm." That's one that has always played out for me.

And yes T.M., no one gets to mess with my DNA other than me. Like Larry's link--What could go wrong?  :o

Quote from: T.M. (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=17048#msg17048)
I think a 2nd round of lockdowns is on the way, sadly.

Hi T.M., Hi All,

I'm curious, is your thinking about the second round of lockdowns just based upon a personal feelings or beliefs or does it come from another source, and is it based upon COVID?

I know that Blossom Goodchild, a woman who channels "The Federation of Light" has been told by them that a more extensive major lockdown is coming. They say that this will be major thing and they don't necessarily say for a fact that it has to do with Covid-19.

I've been observing some comments about Trump in the news, and I've been hearing comments supposedly from him that he's not necessarily planning to step down in November.  I don't quite know what to make of that.


-jbseth

Hi All

Hi Jbseth,

England is locking down again, Canada as well. I sub to some small channels on YouTube, from people who live in those places, and that's what they are seeing. One gentleman mentioned either Ireland or Scotland is pretty much going along with all of the msm scare memes. I hear Australia has gone down right draconian. Can't confirm from first hand reports.

Personally I think politics is a complete sham. Both sides are working together. The standard routine is good cop vs. bad cop.
Personally I think CV19 is simply a mechanism to bring the entire world into compliance under a United world order. So they can only accelerate the games, with continued lock downs and scare tactics. As well as rewards for compliance.
It's predictable in that way. That's why I say this entire situation is not as advertised.

P.S.

Just to add. Before all this happened I started watching everything I could on WW2. Couldn't even say why. I normally highly dislike anything WW2 related.

After it all I could not escape the feeling that I didn't watch coverage of an actual war. What I saw was a structural reorganization of multiple countries, under the banner and excuse of a war.

Quote from: T.M. (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=17053#msg17053)
Before all this happened I started watching everything I could on WW2. Couldn't even say why. I normally highly dislike anything WW2 related.

T.M., I am fascinated by WW2. I suspect that I may have had a previous birth in that era. I have been to the Yad Vashem holocaust memorial in Jerusalem twice.

https://youtu.be/BsJqKdN9B3A

Quote from: Deb (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=17047#msg17047)
Gates said something similar. Gates committed $10 billion to the WHO in 2010, saying "We must make this the decade of vaccines."

Deb, yes there will be money in the vaccine business. Wait for the advertising campaigns, "My vaccine is better than your vaccine."

Quote from: Sena (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=17055#msg17055)
Wait for the advertising campaigns, "My vaccine is better than your vaccine."

I can't wait. No one said, ever.

BTW I just found out about a new book by Dr. Thomas Cowan, The Contagion Myth: Why Viruses (including "Coronavirus") Are Not the Cause of Disease. Yes he's an MD, yes he's controversial, but anyone who challenges medical dogma is initially ridiculed and shamed.

I've listened to some of his podcasts and read a few of his articles about covid. Cowan bucks the traditional belief system (germ theory) regarding viruses. A lot of what he says makes sense to me, but I don't have a medical background and so I consider it more information to sift through to see if it fits. His is a different take on viruses, meaning being different from traditional medical beliefs and also Seth's teachings. I've read this before:

"It was Louis Pasteur who convinced a skeptical medical community that contagious germs cause disease; his "germ theory" now serves as the official explanation for most illness. However, in his private diaries he states unequivocally that in his entire career he was not once able to transfer disease with a pure culture of bacteria (he obviously wasn't able to purify viruses at that time). He admitted that the whole effort to prove contagion was a failure, leading to his famous death bed confession that "the germ is nothing, the terrain is everything."

I probably would have passed up this book since it's likely I have already read most of Cowan's theories, but today I found out that Amazon banned the book before it even came out in print, and has entirely removed the title from its website. With all the censorship going on right now, my defiant side decided I needed this book. Many people had placed orders for the print version on Amazon and received emails saying their orders were cancelled and they'd receive full refunds. No explanation.

I got the digital version of the book from Barnes & Noble, and simply had to install the free Nook app on my phone. I'll of course post more about the book if there's anything there.

https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/contagion-myth-thomas-s-cowan-md/1137427415

And then there's this, here we go!

"Take the jab or lose your job: Medical journal calls for a MANDATORY Covid vaccine, says 'noncompliance should incur a penalty' https://www.rt.com/usa/502270-vaccine-compliance-mandate-study/

"A Yale University study conducted in July evaluated messaging strategies including guilt, economic benefit, trust in science, embarrassment, and community benefit to measure the effects on not only confidence in the vaccine itself but how willing the participants were to persuade others to take the shot – and how much they feared or looked down on those who had not received it."

Is it just me, or is this total manipulation? This all seems so unreal to me. Just 9 months ago, life felt so normal.

Hi All,

Hi Deb,

"Is it just me, or is this total manipulation? This all seems so unreal to me. Just 9 months ago, life felt so normal."

No it's not just you. It is total manipulation.

P.S.

That's how they are going to get around making it mandatory. Just like the masks. They will get the corporations to say if you want to use our businesses or services or keep your employment, you will have to be vaccinated per our company policy.

Quote from: Deb (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=17061#msg17061)
BTW I just found out about a new book by Dr. Thomas Cowan, The Contagion Myth: Why Viruses (including "Coronavirus") Are Not the Cause of Disease. Yes he's an MD, yes he's controversial, but anyone who challenges medical dogma is initially ridiculed and shamed.

Hi Deb, Hi All,

Seth says quite about viruses in NOME.  Given what Seth says below, I not sure that Seth would agree with him.

Seth seems to be pointing out that viruses are in our body all the time and we couldn't live with out them. 
While they can be deadly, they are also "triggered" into activity.   

Seth also says that the body knows the difference between a lab created virus and a natural one. I'm not sure whether this is known or understood by medical researchers. If they don't realize this, and Seth is correct about it, then this probably causes some confusion with them in some of their test results.



NOME, Ch 1, S801:

In the first place, the causes are not biological. Biology is simply the carrier of a "deadly intent." In the second place, there is a difference between a virus produced in the laboratory and that inhabiting the body — a difference recognized by the body but not by your laboratory instruments.




NOME, Ch 6, S840:

(Vigorously:) You could not live without viruses, nor could your biological reality as you know it now exist.

(Pause.) Viruses appear to be "the bad guys," and as a rule you think of them separately, as for example the smallpox virus. There are overall affiliations in which viruses take part, however, in which delicate balances are maintained biologically. Each body contains countless viruses that could be deadly at any given time and under certain conditions. These — and I am putting it as simply as possible — take turns being active or inactive within the body, in accordance with the body's overall condition. Viruses that are "deadly" in certain stages are not in others, and in those later stages they react biologically in quite beneficial ways, adding to the body's stability by bringing about necessary changes, say, in cellular activities that are helpful at given rates of action. These in turn trigger other cellular changes, again of a beneficial nature.

[...]

(9:38.) Give us a moment ... The viruses in the body have a social, cooperative existence. Their effects become deadly only under certain conditions. The viruses must be triggered into destructive activity, and this happens only at a certain point, when the individual involved is actively seeking either death or a crisis situation biologically.


-jbseth

Hi All,

Hi Jbseth,

Excellent excerpt from Seth/Nome Thanks!

Quote from: jbseth (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=17065#msg17065)
The viruses must be triggered into destructive activity, and this happens only at a certain point, when the individual involved is actively seeking either death or a crisis situation biologically.

jbseth, that is exactly right. Death with Covid 19 is caused by how the body reacts to it (the immune response):

"We propose some simple, but largely ignored, approaches to the treatment of COVID-19 patients (Fig. 1). We believe that the two-phase division is very important: the first immune defense-based protective phase and the second inflammation-driven damaging phase. Doctors should try to boost immune responses during the first, while suppressing it in the second phase. Since Vitamin B3 is highly lung protective, it should be used as soon as coughing begins."

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41418-020-0530-3

Quote from: Deb (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=17061#msg17061)
BTW I just found out about a new book by Dr. Thomas Cowan, The Contagion Myth: Why Viruses (including "Coronavirus") Are Not the Cause of Disease. Yes he's an MD, yes he's controversial, but anyone who challenges medical dogma is initially ridiculed and shamed.

Deb, thanks for recommending this. I managed to download it from my secret website, but it is NOT available on Amazon UK.

It is available on Scribd:

https://www.scribd.com/book/476501065/The-Contagion-Myth-Why-Viruses-including-Coronavirus-Are-Not-the-Cause-of-Disease

Tom Cowan tells us here why the book is banned on Amazon (Amazon is doing well out of all the lockdowns):

https://www.bitchute.com/video/qV8nWp4XGw30/

There is some fascinating stuff in this book:

"Since remdesivir gave disappointing results, health officials are seeking other remedies. One
suggestion is dexamethasone, a potent steroid that can shrink the brain. Dexamethasone makes
sense if Covid-19 is an inflammation rather than an "infection."23 In fact, one of the first things
medical students learn is that steroids like dexamethasone make infections worse. Since
dexamethasone may make Covid-19 better, this demonstrates that the illness can't be an infection."

Cowan makes the controversial claim that the so-called Covid 19 illness is NOT caused by a virus, but by the installation of 5G antennae:

"On September 26, 2019, 5G wireless was turned on in Wuhan, China (and officially
launched November 1) with a grid of about ten thousand 5G base stations—more than exist in the
entire United States—all concentrated in one city.17 A spike in cases occurred on February 13—the
same week that Wuhan turned on its 5G network for monitoring traffic.18
Illness has followed 5G installation in all the major cities in America, starting with New
York in Fall 2019 in Manhattan, along with parts of Brooklyn, the Bronx, and Queens—all
subsequent coronavirus hot spots. Los Angeles, Las Vegas, Dallas, Cleveland, and Atlanta soon
followed, with some five thousand towns and cities now covered. Citizens of the small country of
San Marino (the first country in the world to install 5G, in September 2018) have had the longest
exposure to 5G and the highest infection rate—four times higher than Italy (which deployed 5G in
June 2019), and twenty-seven times higher than Croatia, which has not deployed 5G."


"Without getting too deep into the engineering of 5G technology, the important thing about
5G is that the pulsed millimeter waves, this new "spectrum" that will run our phones and computers
faster, need to be "organized" by placing hundreds of thousands of satellites right into the
ionosphere of the earth. These hundreds of thousands of satellites will emit their own
electromagnetic frequencies that essentially beam these new, man-made signals down to the
millions of receivers placed in our neighborhoods, stadiums, schools, nursing homes, hospitals,
parks, farms, lakes, forests, oceans, and everywhere else on earth. The intention is to blanket the
earth with these manmade electromagnetic fields."

From the Sethian point of view, we need to think of EE (electromagnetic) units:

"All of an individual's experiences, even those of which he is not aware on a conscious basis, therefore are part of the electromagnetic reality that forms this particular individual's electromagnetic identity. It exists within the physical matter of the organism during existence within the physical system. While the experiences which form this framework and compose this individual's identity are obtained through his interaction with the physical system, his electromagnetic identity is not dependent upon the physical field."
—TES4 Session 197 October 11, 1965

"However, as Seth says, consciousness units never leave the non-physical state. How, then, do the physical properties of our reality take shape, if not from units of consciousness? It all starts, but does not end, with this next building block of greater reality-electromagnetic energy (EE) units. All consciousness gestalts emanate electromagnetic energy units naturally. They are what Seth calls carriers of perception, and are invisible formations built up in response to emotional intensities that result from a reaction by consciousness to any stimuli, including thoughts and feelings." (from "Living a Safe Universe, Vol. 3: A Book for Seth Readers (Living a Safe Universe: A Book for Seth Readers)" by Lynda Madden Dahl)

Kindle edition: https://amzn.eu/6dJSJyV

"Each of you act as transformers, unconsciously, automatically transforming highly sophisticated electromagnetic units into physical objects. You are in the middle of a "matter-concentrated system," surrounded, so to speak, by weaker areas in which what you would call "pseudomatter" persists. Each thought and emotion spontaneously exists as a simple or complex electromagnetic unit — unperceived, incidentally, as yet by your scientists." (from "Seth Speaks: The Eternal Validity of the Soul (A Seth Book)" by Jane Roberts)

"There are electromagnetic structures, so to speak, that are presently beyond your instruments. (Pause.) Units that are the basic carriers of perception. They have a very brief life in your terms. Their size varies. Several units may combine for example, many units may combine. To put this as simply as possible, it is not so much that they move through space, as that they use space to move through. There is a difference.  In a manner of speaking, thermal qualities are involved, laws also of attraction and repulsion. The units charge the air through which they pass, and draw to them other units. The units are not stationary in the way that a cell say, is stationary within the body, generally speaking. Even a cell, for example, only appears stationary. These units have no home. They are built up in response to emotional intensity. They are one form that emotional intensity takes." (from "The Early Sessions: Book 9 of The Seth Material" by Jane Roberts, Robert Butts)

Cowan on vaccines:
"It's clear that a vaccine is not going to save us—in fact it has the potential of inflicting
enormous suffering on the world's population, not to mention violent resistance to the idea of
universal gene modification by electroporation. And all for an illness that is not contagious!"

Even if Cowan is wrong about the viral origin of this illness, as Sethians we need to be concerned about this "blanket of electromagnetic fields" that is going to cover us. This article in Scientific American is interesting:

"Citing this large body of research, more than 240 scientists who have published peer-reviewed research on the biologic and health effects of nonionizing electromagnetic fields (EMF) signed the International EMF Scientist Appeal, which calls for stronger exposure limits. The appeal makes the following assertions:

"Numerous recent scientific publications have shown that EMF affects living organisms at levels well below most international and national guidelines. Effects include increased cancer risk, cellular stress, increase in harmful free radicals, genetic damages, structural and functional changes of the reproductive system, learning and memory deficits, neurological disorders, and negative impacts on general well-being in humans."

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/we-have-no-reason-to-believe-5g-is-safe/

Hi All,

Hi Sena,
I thought you might find this interesting, and considering it all has to do with the employment of a man made manipulation of electromagnetic waves, perhaps there is something to it. I'm not sure I agree with this, I do find it interesting.
The following article is written to debunk the idea, it's the closest link I could find to the basic idea there's a link to technologies and epidemics.

The Facebook post infers the correlations as follows:

5G launched, COVID-19 2019.
4G launched, H1N1 2009.
3G launched, Influenza 1998.
2G Launched, Cholera 1991.
1G launched, influenza 1979".
It then goes on to state "The introduction of radio waves caused the Spanish flu of 1918".

https://www.aap.com.au/dates-dont-line-up-when-comparing-disease-epidemics-and-new-mobile-technology-rollouts/

Quote from: T.M. (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=17069#msg17069)
It then goes on to state "The introduction of radio waves caused the Spanish flu of 1918".

T.M., thanks for that information. I certainly don't agree with radio waves causing Spanish flu. According to Cowan, 5G is something very unique. Just imagine hundreds of thousands of satellites emitting electromagnetic waves.

"Video sharing platform YouTube has begun taking down videos linking 5G with COVID-19 in an effort to stop false information spreading but theories claiming a link between the virus and telecommunications technologies are still spreading on Facebook."
That is obviously censorship. Are they so scared of this point of view?

Hi All,

Hi Sena,

YouTube is censoring out many subjects and video creators that don't tow the party line. Google also. Many alternative P.O.V. creators have to use Patreon to get their content out, though I hear even Patreon is starting to censor as well.

Thanks for the Cowan/Fallon video Sena, I enjoyed it.

So as Cowan says in his book intro, he may be right about all of this, he may be wrong, but he felt compelled to share his ideas about germ theory, viruses and covid. I was interested in getting a different perspective to consider, and he sure does make some interesting points. He does start off saying how our bodies have a symbiotic relationship with bacteria (think gut health). I'm still not clear if he thinks viruses are real, but I'm just getting started in the book. I've never been a believer that EMFs were a big deal as far as health, but now I'm starting to wonder. But not enough to make myself a tin foil hat. Yet. :)

As for EMFs and pandemics correlation, here's a timeline he shares so far (I'm only at chapter 3 right now). Honestly, if I could copy & paste all of Chapter 2 here, I would. I think I highlighted the whole dang thing. I haven't fact checked any of these yet, he does give references:

1888 pole-mounted high-voltage AC power lines were introduced. In 1889 there was the Russian (Asiatic) Flu pandemic.

WWI, govts on both sides of the conflict installed antennas, which eventually blanketed the earth with strong radio signals. Then came the 1918 pandemic. Those living on military bases supposedly had the most trouble. The US Public Health Service tried to infect healthy volunteers to find more about the illness, by inserting the nasal and throat secretions of the ill (and even lung material from cadavers) into the noses, throats and respiratory tracks of the volunteers, but none got sick. They injected blood from the sick into the volunteers. Nothing. They finally had sick people breathe and cough (2" away) into the faces of the volunteers. Nothig.

1957, installation of radar worldwide. The Asian flu pandemic began in Feb. 1957

1967, US launched 28 satellites into the Van Allen belts. In July 1968, the Hong Kong flu pandemic began.

9/26/19, 5G wireless was turned on in Wuhan. Covid appears after that, actual date still unknown. 02/13/20, a spike in cases occurred the same week Wuhan turned on a 5G network for monitoring traffic. 5G came to NY in the Fall of 2019.

San Marino (small country) installed 5G in Sept 2018 and had the highest infection rate, 4x higher than Italy (5G in June 2019), and 27x higher than Croatia, which does not have 5G. Northern Italy has the densest 5G coverage in Italy, and 22x as many cases as Rome. Iran launched 5G in late March 2020. Also mentioned are Korea, Japan, South America. Countries without 5G: Guyana, Suriname, French Guiana and Paraguay—and have no covid. There's more than I can write here, so I'll end with the Diamond Princess ship that was quarantined in Yokohama. It advertises "the best Wi-Fi at sea" and has four 5G antennas on the top of the ship.

It seems a lot of symptoms of hypersensitivity  of EMFs are similar to covid.

He writes that what scientists have been thinking are virus particles are actually exosomes, which are sort of the scrubbing bubbles of the immune system, encapsulating and removing toxins and damaged cells from the body. I'll explain some other time and how this relates.

I'm taking all of this with a grain of salt, but he sure makes me wonder. As Sena mentioned, Seth recognized us as energy beings, as is everything. So if we are causing electrical havoc in humans, we are also affecting other living things. Horses became sick with the Spanish flu, and similar experiments were done to infect healthy horses with the mucus from the sick ones—and none became ill. From a Sethian point, I can totally see this being another issue like pollution, with a mass event pointing out that we need to learn to respect and not harm the Earth and other living things. Maybe, with people like Cowan (he's not alone in his thinking), we'll learn that viruses don't cause sickness and instead have a beneficial role. And that there's more to the story of pandemics.

I'll have to think about that a little more.

PS So who do you suppose is causing the censoring? It's always "follow the money." Who is trying to protect the cash flow? Telecom? Or Big Pharma? I'd place my bet on the telecom industry, but maybe they're in cahoots.

Hi All,

Hi Deb,

"As Sena mentioned, Seth recognized us as energy beings, as is everything. So if we are causing electrical havoc in humans, we are also affecting other living things."

That's what I'm wondering. If we are disorganizing the electromagnetic field, perhaps that has health consequences for all of us.
I'm pretty sure mankind hasn't yet figured out how inter-related (or maybe some have) different phenomenon are, and how upsetting one may cause problems in another.

One of my main gripes of 5g is that it was developed as a military grade weapons system. The military investigated it and knows full well it's potential dangers. I'm also betting that's why most companies that have developed that kind of technology completely skipped the testing phase, because it has already been tested! You can find clips on the net of various C.E.O's that they didn't test their equipment, and went ahead with it anyways. Large flocks of birds usually drop dead out of the sky where 5g is turned on.
As far as I recall, essentially, 5g causes the molecules in atoms to spin backwards, which causes problems in the lungs, as the lung doesn't recognize the reconfigured molecules, and can't take it in as oxygen. Thus causing breathing problems in anything with lungs. - something along that line.

Spanish Flu - The official story I'm aware of is the main outbreak started at a military base. It was claimed that it was because so many people/soldiers were brought together from all parts of the country. A phenomenon not known before.
I do wonder if it has something to do with the use and application of radio waves. It's always kind of struck me that those who lived through that obviously must have passed on to their offspring the ability to resist whatever that was. So the surviving stock may well not have been as sensitive to electromagnetic distortions, or a distorted electromagnetic field.

The censorship, so many elements are nestled together. It's somewhat a 2 headed snake. The military industrial complex is definitely one of the snakes, Imo. They definitely have an agenda.

Quote from: T.M. (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=17074#msg17074)
One of my main gripes of 5g is that it was developed as a military grade weapons system.

T.M., this is very interesting.

"Some common bio-effects of non-lethal electromagnetic weapons include:

Difficulty breathing
Disorientation
Nausea
Pain
Vertigo
Other systemic discomfort
Interference with breathing poses the most significant, potentially lethal results."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directed-energy_weapon

Quote from: Deb (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=17072#msg17072)
WWI, govts on both sides of the conflict installed antennas, which eventually blanketed the earth with strong radio signals. Then came the 1918 pandemic.

Deb, thanks for highlighting that. Maybe I have to change my mind about radio signals. Radio signals are of course electromagnetic radiation, and so would be of interest to Seth. Another extract from Cowan's book:

"During World War I, governments on both sides of the conflict installed antennas, which
eventually blanketed the earth with strong radio signals—and during the latter part of 1918, disaster
struck. The Spanish flu afflicted a third of the world's population and killed about fifty million
people, more than the Black Death of the fourteenth century. To stop the contagion, communities
shut down schools, businesses, and theaters; people were ordered to wear masks and refrain from
shaking hands.
Those living on military bases, which bristled with antennas, were the most vulnerable. A
common symptom was bleeding—from the nostrils, gums, ears, skin, stomach, intestines, uterus,
kidneys, and brain. Many died of hemorrhage in the lungs, drowning in their own blood. Tests
revealed a decreased ability of the blood to coagulate."

Bleeding is something that we don't usually associate with flu.

QuoteMaybe, with people like Cowan (he's not alone in his thinking), we'll learn that viruses don't cause sickness and instead have a beneficial role.

That would be a sensational discovery, and it might encourage people to take Seth seriously.

I just thought I'd add this tidbit from the Spring 2020 Wise Traditions Newsletter (https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/caustic-commentary-spring-2020/):

NO INSURANCE

According to the Verizon 2019 Annual Report, the telecom­munications company no longer carries insurance for EMF litigation, including litigation against 5G. "We are subject to a substantial amount of litigation. . . In addition our wire­less business also faces personal injury and wrongful death lawsuits relating to alleged health effects of wireless phones or radio frequency transmitters. We may incur significant expenses in defending these lawsuits. In addition, we may be required to pay significant awards or settlements."

Actually, this statement appears every year in this industry's annual reports. Insurers dropped Verizon and other telecommunica­tions companies for EMF litigation many years ago (www.verizon.com/about/investors/sec-filings). [Annual Report filed 02/21/20]

Hi All,

I thought I'd share some ideas that perhaps are counterpoints to some of the comments that I'm hearing here.


Seth seems to have known quite a bit about things that we didn't.  He talked about many interesting and unique topics such as probable realities, simultaneous time, the spacious present, and CU units, for example. Seth also had quite a bit to say bit about viruses.  I find it hard to believe that Seth would have said the things that he did about viruses, if viruses didn't affect man. The following link is a small example of what I'm talking about.

https://findingseth.com/q/session:906+viruses/


While in the US Air Force, in the early to mid-1970s', I worked on B-52 bomber aircraft. While I was in the Air Force, I heard stories from some of my co-workers about an incident that occurred during the Vietnam War. In regards to this incident, an aircraft technician accidently activated the B-52 radar system, at the same moment another person was standing directly in front of the B-52 bomber. The radar dish in the B-52 is located directly in front of the plane. Unfortunately, this poor man died of severe burns. These burns were described as being very similar to the kind of thing that occurs to a hot dog that is cooked in a microwave oven. High powered radar burns severely.

While, 5G, is a very specific type of EM radiation, and is nowhere near as high-powered as a military aircraft radar system, I would suspect that the way that it would affect humans would be low level burns and perhaps some sort of neurological impact like dementia, Alzheimer's or epilepsy.  I would also suspect that it may have some unexpected impacts on nature. Such things as damaging to surrounding plant life, and perhaps disruptive to bee navigation and perhaps bird migration. However, I wouldn't necessarily expect it to cause flu – like symptoms in humans.


For some time now, the medical community has said that viruses cause the flu. Along with this, they also claim that viruses cause the common cold. Given what Seth has to say about viruses, and what the medical establishment has to say about viruses, I think that it's entirely plausible that covid, with's flu – like symptoms is caused by some sort of virus.


Mankind hasn't stopped using EMF fields since they were first discovered. If anything, their use has increased over time.  That being the case, why hasn't the Spanish flu continued to occur and reoccur for the last 100 years or so?


I do think that it's possible, that there could be some sort of connection between 5G exposure and covid. But I think that covid itself, like the Spanish flu, and other flu's is probably caused by some sort of virus.


-jbseth

Hi all,

One of the objections to Cowan's theory is that Iran had many deaths from Covid 19, although 5G had NOT been installed there. I can think of two possible explanations:

(1) It was actually a flu epidemic in Iran, which was falsely labelled as a Covid 19 epidemic.

(2) Many people in Iran chose to die because they did not want to live any longer in a fanatical Islamic country,

Hi Sena, Hi All,

What about this, here's a third possible explanation.

Covid has nothing to do with 5G and many people in Iran actually died of Covid.

Is this somehow not a "possibility"?

-jbseth

Hi All,

I don't think 5G causes CV19. I think you either have CV19, or Emf poisoning from 5G. I'm not however ruling out that CV19 is being blamed at times as a cover for an illness that is actually Emf poisoning. That's just my thoughts on it all.


Hi Jbseth,

"Mankind hasn't stopped using EMF fields since they were first discovered. If anything, their use has increased over time.  That being the case, why hasn't the Spanish flu continued to occur and reoccur for the last 100 years or so?"

Cause the ones that couldn't handle the change in the atmosphere died. The survivors passed on to their progeny the ability to live with the changed atmosphere?

That's just a guess on my part. I'm not sure I believe that changes in Emf through technology is correlative to epidemics. I just find it interesting at this point. I'm not for or against the idea at this point  :)

Quote from: jbseth (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=17081#msg17081)
Covid has nothing to do with 5G and many people in Iran actually died of Covid.

Is this somehow not a "possibility"?

jbseth, I am by no means certain that 5G causes death in those with a positive Covid 19 test. It is only a possibility, but how many scientists are looking into that possibility? There careers will be at an end if they do that kind of research.

By the way, do you know what the 5G coverage is around Walter Reed Hospital?

Quote from: T.M. (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=17082#msg17082)
Cause the ones that couldn't handle the change in the atmosphere died. The survivors passed on to their progeny the ability to live with the changed atmosphere?

T.M., that would certainly be the Darwinian explanation. It may be only those who have a genetic predisposition (those who are ready and willing to die) who get killed by 5G.

Well I just have to say I'm enjoying the book. I like people who think outside of the box. The ones that are "right" are the ones who challenge and eventually change scientific theories. We, by nature of being fans of the Seth material, have that in common—thinking outside of the box. Seth said often that we don't quite understand the true nature of some things, and that our scientists are often barking up the wrong trees. I also don't want to make the Seth materials into another "box."

One of the things Cowan brings up in the book is that the viral version of Koch's postulates have not been fulfilled in the case of many viruses, including covid. Virus particles have not been isolated and purified. I don't know if that's true or not. His theory is that a lot of what science decided were viruses in the past were actually cases of physical damage due to em events and/or toxins, exacerbated by various types of pollution. I just heard recently that biofuels spew glyphosate into the air. Not sure if that's true, but then the EPA says glyphosate is perfectly harmless. :)  Large cities hit the hardest with covid also have poor air quality.

There are such things as electromagnetic hypersensitivity and radio-frequency radiation (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6701402/) and there has been research of cell phones and radar guns causing cancer and a bunch of other problems. We do have a lot of wireless contraptions these days and are constantly exposed. People with compromised health would naturally have a harder time recovering from or adapting to elevated EMFs. There are  also some important differences between 4g and 5g.

From Scientific American (https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/we-have-no-reason-to-believe-5g-is-safe/):

"The latest cellular technology, 5G, will employ millimeter waves for the first time in addition to microwaves that have been in use for older cellular technologies, 2G through 4G. Given limited reach, 5G will require cell antennas every 100 to 200 meters, exposing many people to millimeter wave radiation. 5G also employs new technologies (e.g., active antennas capable of beam-forming; phased arrays; massive multiple inputs and outputs, known as massive MIMO) which pose unique challenges for measuring exposures.

"Millimeter waves are mostly absorbed within a few millimeters of human skin and in the surface layers of the cornea. Short-term exposure can have adverse physiological effects in the peripheral nervous system, the immune system and the cardiovascular system. The research suggests that long-term exposure may pose health risks to the skin (e.g., melanoma), the eyes (e.g., ocular melanoma) and the testes (e.g., sterility).

"Since 5G is a new technology, there is no research on health effects, so we are "flying blind" to quote a U.S. senator. However, we have considerable evidence about the harmful effects of 2G and 3G. Little is known the effects of exposure to 4G, a 10-year-old technology, because governments have been remiss in funding this research. Meanwhile, we are seeing increases in certain types of head and neck tumors in tumor registries, which may be at least partially attributable to the proliferation of cell phone radiation. These increases are consistent with results from case-control studies of tumor risk in heavy cell phone users."

Who knows if Cowan is onto something or is delusional, but he does bring up some interesting points in the book and invites and implores virologists and other scientists to debunk his theory.

Quote from: Sena (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=17083#msg17083)
By the way, do you know what the 5G coverage is around Walter Reed Hospital?

Not sure about 5G near Walter Reed, but there's plenty in D.C. and all major US cities, and I wouldn't be surprised if it's on Air Force One. Trump has been doing a lot of traveling lately.

Tying together what I've read so far in this book, and the Dawson Church one Mind to Matter, I could get creative and come up with my own theory. ;)

Quote from: jbseth (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=17079#msg17079)
Mankind hasn't stopped using EMF fields since they were first discovered. If anything, their use has increased over time.  That being the case, why hasn't the Spanish flu continued to occur and reoccur for the last 100 years or so?

Maybe it has and we just keep giving it a different name. Maybe different types of EMF exposure cause different symptoms.

Hi All,

Hi Deb,

"Given limited reach, 5G will require cell antennas every 100 to 200 meters, exposing many people to millimeter wave radiation. 5G also employs new technologies (e.g., active antennas capable of beam-forming; phased arrays; massive multiple inputs and outputs, known as massive MIMO) which pose unique challenges for measuring exposures."

That's a good part of what has me concerned. There will be no way to escape the effects of 5G with that many antennas in a person's living environment. Unless a person goes completely Amish out in a forest in the middle of nowhere.

I'm wondering if the Emf is related to frequencies which have their own kind of natural balance. Upset that balance and the wrong frequency gets emitted.
I'm wondering if frequency(s) affect cellular life, and can trigger optimal/non-optimal conditions. The frequency directly affects the cell(s).Then combine that with mental and emotional attitudes. Maybe that's what initiates mass illness, and people who either live through it well, not so good, or die.

Strangely on the bright side, if most illnesses are due to Emf poisoning-non optimal frequencies, does that mean we are actually healthier than we think we are?  If somehow we could magically transfer to a world pre Emf tampered with, would good health be the norm?

Quote from: Deb (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=17085#msg17085)
Who knows if Cowan is onto something or is delusional, but he does bring up some interesting points in the book and invites and implores virologists and other scientists to debunk his theory.

Deb, this is the point. Cowan's theory is a theory, not a proof, but more scientists need to be looking at the possibilities. I am glad to note that our famous patient has been given dexamethasone, which is of benefit in Covid 19 illness.

When a drug like dexamethasone was given to patients severely ill with influenza, there was increased mortality.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1198743X15006813

It is true that this kind of drug does benefit patients with some kinds of viral infection, but this is one bit of evidence that needs to be considered.

Hi All,

Potential evidence for Frequency-Emf field:

NASA has turned science fiction into science fact by announcing the discovery of hidden 'portals' in Earth's magnetic field.

Called X-points or electron diffusion regions, rather than being intergalactic folds in space leading to different galaxies and planets, these portals aid in the transfer of the magnetic field from the Sun to Earth.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2168938/NASA-discovers-portals-space-Earth-Sun-dont-book-ticket-just-yet.html
https://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2008/30oct_ftes

If that happens between the earth and Sun, I wonder what happens on earth? Seth's co-ordination points anyone? :)

Lots of great questions T.M. in your reply #63.

So even if we were to get rid of all human-created EMFs, there would still be natural ones such as the comets, solar flares (EMPs). If everything in physical reality is made of energy, various bodies of energy can impact others. The book does try to tie in the ancient Chinese belief that comets caused illness. There was a period where comets came into the earth's atmosphere fairly often and right before by plagues. Supposedly comets become electronically charged with sufficient energy to emit extreme UV light and powerful x-rays. They also provoke high-energy flareups of solar plasma.

But Seth (and even some doctors) say that the body is amazingly adaptable, and so hopefully as more EM energy is showered on us, we will be able to adapt as long as it's not an overwhelming dose such as with nuclear radiation or radar from a B-52.

I had a month of radiation cancer treatments when I was in my late 40s. My skin did "burn," (technically not a burn, but that's what it felt and looked like) but did seem to adapt after a while, with no lasting effects as far as I can tell.

Seth: "Now (elaborately and quietly): Obviously your physical body has capacities that few of you use to full advantage. But beyond this, the species itself possesses the possibilities for adaptations that allow it to exist and persist in the physical environment under drastically varying circumstances. Hidden within the corporal biological structure there are latent specializations that would allow the species to continue, and that take into consideration any of the planetary changes that might occur for whatever reasons."
—NotP Chapter 1: Session 753, August 4, 1975

Here's a little story about bacteria adapting. I feel that if bacteria can adapt, we certainly can. I first heard about this through Bruce Lipton [Spontaneous Evolution], but I found it on this site tody: https://lynnemctaggart.com/gene-genie/

Geneticist John Cairns of Harvard's School of Public Health carried out an experiment that would set off one of the largest arguments in modern biology:

"He'd selected bacteria with a genetic defect rendering them unable to digest lactose, the sugar present in milk, then introduced them into a batch of Petri dishes containing cultures whose only food-source was lactose. Without any digestible food, the bacteria faced death by slow starvation.

"According to orthodox science, the bacteria would not be able to colonize; without a food source to drive metabolic processes, they could not carry out normal reproduction.  Nevertheless, in every Petri dish, Cairns found a goodly number of thriving colonies.

"When Cairns tested for genetic changes in his colonies, he found that a single type of gene had changed – those preventing for lactose metabolism. Identical changes in just those genes had occurred within every new colony in every Petri dish.

"Through some unknown mechanism, the bacteria had activated life-saving mutations in direct response to an extreme environmental crisis, and these mutations had saved their lives.

"Somehow the extreme environmental conditions had caused changes in genes, enabling the bacteria to digest the only food available to them.

"The bacteria had evolved purposefully, not randomly, in order to restore balance and harmony with their environment."

Quote from: T.M. (https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=17088#msg17088)
Seth's co-ordination points anyone?

Right?

Hi All,

Hi Deb,

When I became aware of the portals between the earth and sun, when that info came out, I had found another article.
It said roughly that there are those same type portals between all the planets and the Sun. With the Sun acting something like the brain of the solar system - my take on the info.

Then I see your quote
"Hidden within the corporal biological structure there are latent specializations that would allow the species to continue, and that take into consideration any of the planetary changes that might occur for whatever reasons."
—NotP Chapter 1: Session 753, August 4, 1975

I'm kicking around the idea that cellular life on this planet is like a mirror, or reflection of the light wave it's exposed to. That light ray is composed of frequencies. A combination of frequencies, every planet in our system contributes a frequency. So for sake of reference the light ray would be composed of 7 major influences- which are the major planets.
I think Seth said the planets are consciousnesses in their own right. An idea also echoed in occult theology.

Just an idea I'm trying to put together, so far. Possibly and likely could be more influences-frequencies than that.

"Hidden within the corporal biological structure"  I wonder if that could be a reference to our so called Junk DNA and it's abilities?

P.S.

"I had a month of radiation cancer treatments when I was in my late 40s. My skin did "burn," (technically not a burn, but that's what it felt and looked like) but did seem to adapt after a while, with no lasting effects as far as I can tell."

I'm glad that worked and without lasting effects!

Searching for something unrelated ... I find much of this discussion sickening.