Seth on Animals

[tracy]

Does anyone know if animals choose their family and circumstances before incarnation and if they are killed by humans on purpose or by accident, is it because they've chosen to die?

[jbseth]

Hi Tracy,

This is a very interesting question.  I have some thoughts for you on this, but I'm not sure I have an answer.


Seth said that consciousness creates matter, it is not the other way around. He also talked about gestalts of consciousness. Along this line he did mention that even atoms have a kind of consciousness.

In his various discussions on gestalts of consciousness, it is my impression is that there are various levels of consciousness and these various levels of consciousness, create various levels of life.

I believe that the kinds of consciousness that create an amoeba, a jellyfish, a lobster, a tuna, a snake, a bird, a bear and a man are all different.

I think your question may be valid for man, but I'm not sure it's really applicable for an amoeba, for example, and I don't know where it starts to become applicable for other animal types.


Seth does say quite a bit about animals and you can do a search on this at the Seth Search engine site located here.

   
https://findingseth.com/


jbseth

[Deb]

Hi tracy and welcome to the forum!

Does anyone know if animals choose their family and circumstances before incarnation and if they are killed by humans on purpose or by accident, is it because they've chosen to die?

I don't recall Seth saying anything specifically about that, but there is so much Seth had to say about animals, our killing to eat animals, how we've become so far removed from nature, using animals in lab experiments, natural guilt.

My understanding is that everything has consciousness, there are no surprise deaths or victims, and everything that happens in this construct called Earth is agreed to between the "actors." As in the quote below, "both animals understand," and "the mouse itself has been hunter as well as prey." And so in a situation where an animal is killed by a human, there would be an underlying agreement between both parties and both chose the situation for spiritual growth, experience and expansion. Personally I don't think of animals as wanting to die, I feel they are less complex, closer to nature and have stronger survival instincts as compared to humans.

Like jbseth said, I would also recommend using the Seth search engine and simply search on "animal." Lots of provocative information there.

There are also topics here involving animals, such as (To Meat or not to meat):

A cat playfully killing a mouse and eating it is not evil. It suffers no guilt. On biological levels both animals understand. The consciousness of the mouse, under the innate knowledge of impending pain, leaves its body. The cat uses the warm flesh. The mouse itself has been hunter as well as prey, and both understand the terms in ways that are very difficult to explain.

"At certain levels both cat and mouse understand the nature of the life energy they share, and are not—in those terms—jealous for their own individuality. This does not mean they will not struggle to live, but that they have a built-in unconscious sense of unity with nature in which they know they will not be lost or immersed.

Also consider this:

"To eat is good. To consume other creatures at your level of existence is natural. It is how the earth is replenished. To torture other creatures in the terms of this discussion is not at all "natural." The animals, however, are embarked upon a different avenue than you. The development of tools gave man options in the way and manner of killing his prey."
—TPS4 Deleted Session August 9, 1978

Please let us know what you come up with!

[tracy]

Hi Deb and jbseth,

Thank you both for your insightful thoughts! Yes, I suppose their ability of using their thoughts in creating reality is much more limited than ours. As jbseth mentioned, I suppose with the level of advancement of the animal form, their conscious creative abilities evolve. It would have been interesting to know what they could and could not create in comparison with humans. As quoted below, there was a fragment of Seth incarnated as a dog fragment which makes it possible that they do choose their family and circumstances .

"(Many sessions ago, Seth told us he had a dog fragment personality still here on Earth. He wouldn't tell us where it was, though. "Number twenty-five: Do you have any physical fragments of any kind still here on earth?")"
—SS Chapter 20: Session 581, April 14, 1971

As Deb mentioned, all consciousness has a choice in when they want to leave physical reality so it does make sense then that  animals do decide on their deaths and this can happen by an accident or by a conscious intention of a human.

[jbseth]

Hi Tracy, Hi All,

I came across the following Seth comments on animals by accident this morning (Seth says that there are no accidents  while looking for something else. This Seth information comes from, "The Nature of Personality Reality", Chapter 17, Session 661 and talks about animals and how they sometimes choose to die.

In many animal groups the sick animal isolates itself for a period of rest, in which it is also free to seek out those natural conditions most conducive to its health. It travels to find certain herbs, or it lies in the mud or clay by certain rivers. Often it is helped by others of its kind, but it is free.

When and if it is killed by its brothers, this is not an act of cruelty but an innate understanding that the creature can no longer operate physically without agony; a quite natural euthanasia is involved, in which the "patient" also acquiesces. In your society such a natural death is most difficult, and because of the power structures can hardly be promoted. No one who decides upon death is saved from it by the medical profession, however. On deeper levels the quite normal desire for survival requires that the individual leave his or her body, in your terms, at one time or another. When that period arrives the person knows it, and the great vitality of the spirit no longer wants to be encased by a suffering physical body.

jbseth

[Deb]

a quite natural euthanasia is involved, in which the "patient" also acquiesces

Brilliant quote, I totally forgot about this one. Animals going off to die and natural euthanasia. There are many ways (I feel) that animals are more advanced than humans. Or maybe more pure would be a better interpretation. Yet, being an owner of a couple of chickens, sometimes they jump the gun as far as natural euthanasia. They are programmed to react to weakness. And my mind also goes to prey animals, where the weakest animal is killed by the predator, a sacrifice that protects the rest of the herd.

But I would have to agree that any time anything dies, it is by choice, for a variety of personal reasons. I.E., to end physical as well as emotional suffering.