GDP is such f***g stupid measure

[Bora137]

Could there be a worse measure of the health of a nation? I post this in comic relief because it is truly funny. All spiritual texts say to transcend let got of the physical. Every rich nation on earth thinks they're doing fucking ace, racing up the motorway in the wrong direction.

I thought of this while sitting under a waterfall today thinking ATI has created this! I was sort of on the edge of grasping the sublimeness of creation. It was there at the periphery of my consciousness and I had a spark of its awesomeness then it slipped my grasp.

[Deb]

But how do you really feel? Sorry you lost your groove. Waterfalls are awesome.

Well GDP is the focus of people that value economy as being the only, or maybe most important, standard of success. There are other standards and some people realize that: healthy life expectancy at birth, social support in times of trouble, low corruption and high social trust, generosity in a community where people look after each other and freedom to make key life decisions. These other elements don't often get much press. 

This might make you feel better. It's a list countries ranking on happiness, based on a survey called The World Happiness Report.  https://worldhappiness.report/ed/2022/happiness-benevolence-and-trust-during-covid-19-and-beyond/#ranking-of-happiness-2019-2021. Table 2.2 has the list of factors taken into consideration when ranking countries. Table 2.1 shows the ranking of 146 out of the 190+ countries in the world. Nordic countries are at the top of the list, Afghanistan is dead last.

It would be interesting to see a GDP-ranked list to compare with this one. I might see if I can locate one, I'm curious now.

[Deb]

OK, I found this https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/Ny.Gdp.Mktp.Cd?most_recent_value_desc=true and just screen captured a few countries to compare. I hope the attached is readable, I'm on my laptop so it's hard for me to tell. Plus this Photoshop knock-off I now have is challenging. But... as far as I can tell from first glance, no correlation between quality of life, GDP, and what constitutes the health of a nation.

[inavalan]

It reminds of this quote:

I am not implying that all social workers are driven by personal problems. On the other hand, it is quite true to say that many such questions turn into challenges with a change of mind, and are then used as impetuses to affect social alterations.

In such cases the dilemma is projected outside of the self and seen as an exterior condition which can be manipulated. Indeed, a "magical" transformation is involved. This is not to be construed, however, as a statement that all creative acts result from individual problems or neuroses. Quite the contrary, in fact. Such problems projected outward can never really be solved as far as the individual is concerned, of course, since their source is not understood.

Since the source is not understood, no exterior manipulation in the social structure will be effective enough, and the person involved will see the problem personified in every issue. Hence, even improvements in the social framework will be "invisible" to the individual's perception — not noticed. They will seem so minute in comparison with the problem.

[inavalan]

Again, you make your own reality. When you view the world, social groups, political groups, your friends, your private experience — these are all attracted into your realm of activity by your beliefs. Natural hypnosis, as explained in the last chapter, leads you to seek out those situations that will confirm your beliefs, and to avoid those that threaten them.

You will often try to project a problem outward to free yourself. If this is done the question at issue will seem forever outside of you, beyond solution, and of mass proportion.

[inavalan]

Bottom line: everything that we perceive is symbolical information, for our individual interpretation and the use in our individual choices; nobody else can be blamed or praised for it, not even God or All-that-is.

[Bora137]

OK, I found this https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/Ny.Gdp.Mktp.Cd?most_recent_value_desc=true and just screen captured a few countries to compare. I hope the attached is readable, I'm on my laptop so it's hard for me to tell. Plus this Photoshop knock-off I now have is challenging. But... as far as I can tell from first glance, no correlation between quality of life, GDP, and what constitutes the health of a nation.

Thanks Deb this proves the point 🙂. I did read another report once that said the developed countries were no happier than indigenous tribes. So all the material production means squat. Personally I like the access to information and the comfortable houses in which to absorb it. It's hard to read books living in hunter gatherer style. But I think shamen brought a deeper knowledge to those tribes that was absorbed through experience. The downside of the western way of living is that we are killing the planet. I'm not sure if I were given the choice right now to switch to a hunter gatherer life that I would take it, or even if I could take it this current being mindset of meanings would not transpose I think.

[inavalan]

@Bora137

Your post reminds of this remarkable dream / experience I had a few years ago:

From my dream notes, recorded immediately after waking up:

- went to bed with the intention to have a lucid dream or obe
- toward the morning, quick induction
- in front of a door on which is written "OUT OF BODY EXPERIENCE", opened the door, 1 2 3 entered

- at first couldn't see anything, darkish
- watched my feet, barefoot, covered with an animal fur, I am a primitive man, bearded, overgrown and a little messy, light color skin
- walking through a primitive village, with primitive shelters, small, made of stone, wood, mud, openings for door and window
- other primitive people walking around
- feeling peaceful, no fear, no special thoughts, just living and doing whatever needed to do at the moment
- entered into my shelter, there there was my wife / woman and a couple of small children playing on the ground
- brought home a bunch of tree branches for the fire
- woman was cooking / boiling something
- ate, had sex, went to sleep
 
- asked my subconscious to estimate when was this: ~9,800 BC
- where was this: Europe, France
- my name: Ahn
 
- attitude of no expectations, to not influence the experience
- Ahn remained conscious, and projected into what I immediately thought to be the realm where he came from, where he'll return, and where part of him is always there.
- I realized that every time Ahn was going to sleep he projected on that realm, was waking up there, was becoming conscious there
- it seemed that there was no other dreaming involved, not the way we dream now
- just a life awake on Earth, then when sleeping being awake in the other realm
- there were other people around, that seemed familiar
 
- I asked to meet my council keeping an attitude of no expectations (I forced it here a little, aware that it might affect my experience, but I wanted to see what happens; until today I didn't meet / interacted with anybody, except a couple of times when I asked for my father, and he appeared)
- a council of 7 people, androgynous, didn't see them well, because it was misty
 
- asked then what's happening: life on Earth is a lab for the school we attend in the other realm
- we are based in the other realm, and project on Earth, that is a lab where we practice things we study in school
- what do we have to do on Earth: to develop, firstly instincts, then emotions, then intellect, and intuition (what I was already believing we do)
- we are essences of consciousness, born / created with no such abilities, and have to develop them; that's why we attend school, and project on Earth to practice what we learned, like having a lab
- this was the original way things were supposed to work, divide our time between being conscious awake on Earth, and projecting conscious back on the base realm while sleeping
- in time, humans changed, started to develop intelligence, and this being still rudimentary distorted the meaning of what's happening, changed their focus more toward the everyday challenges of the life on Earth; so they mostly lost the capability to consciously project back to the base realm, every time they sleep
 
- note: as they say ... a little knowledge is a dangerous thing; maybe this is the origin of the Adam & Eve story about eating from the tree of knowledge and consequently falling of Heaven ...?
 
- realization that this is what we are supposed to do at night: consciously project back to the realm we're actually based on
- while awake on Earth should concentrate on the development of our intellect and intuition, and learn to control our emotions and instincts, especially fear ant its derivatives, like anger, etc..
 
- this was a remarkable experience; I felt that while having it, and when I woke up too

[Deb]

I did read another report once that said the developed countries were no happier than indigenous tribes.

Yep, I've actually heard that people in less developed countries tend to be happier. Such as tribes in the Amazon, Africa... that kind of thing. With technical progress comes a lot of stress and responsibilities, life becomes complicated, people have a lot of pressure on them. I think that's why camping is so popular.   There's an old John Belushi movie, Continental Divide (1981), that I saw when it was in theaters and it was really appealing to me. It would be good to see it again. He's a reporter enmeshed in a dangerous situation and ends up far away, in the Rockies, living a somewhat primitive life. Wow, hard to believe a movie would stick with me for that many years.

Your post reminds of this remarkable dream / experience I had a few years ago:

Wow inavalan, that's quite a dream and amazing recall. I usually have dreams about trouble with phones and cleaning house. I'm jealous.

[inavalan]

...
Wow inavalan, that's quite a dream and amazing recall. I usually have dreams about trouble with phones and cleaning house. I'm jealous.

It's a matter of practice. It took me a looong time to accept that I needed to have a dream journal. Then I started to regularly write down all the dreams I remembered and their interpretations. It is a "skill". Surely, intention and suggestions before falling asleep help. I still do it, but now I have a much closer relationship with my subconscious and with my inner-guide.

At the time, I had barely heard of Seth, so my dream wasn't influenced by his books.

[Bora137]

I did read another report once that said the developed countries were no happier than indigenous tribes.

Yep, I've actually heard that people in less developed countries tend to be happier. Such as tribes in the Amazon, Africa... that kind of thing. With technical progress comes a lot of stress and responsibilities, life becomes complicated, people have a lot of pressure on them. I think that's why camping is so popular.  

As in all things I think the beliefs come first then the reality is created. So the tribal people know this is only a fragment of their existence and they are one with nature. The 'developed' world becomes like it is because the people believe there is only one life and they must maximize their consumption and experience and they live separate from nature and thus the world we experience now is created. The stress comes less from the busy life more from the core false negative believe that there is only one life I think.

I'm jealous of inavalan experience too, incredible