For those who think they find contradictions in the Seth material

[Mark M]

Not so fast.

The following quotes have various contexts, but I think it should be borne in mind that if one thinks they've discovered a contradiction, it doesn't necessarily mean Jane distorted Seth or Seth fucked up or whatever.

"Contradictions, or rather apparent contradictions in terms will arise only out of a false conception on your part, mostly as a result of the erroneous cause-and-effect system. Obviously cause and effect has only limited application even on your own plane and in your own camouflage universe."

—TES2 Session 44 April 15, 1964

'Dictation: Your next question is easy to anticipate, of course, for you will want to know the origin of that "interior" universe from which I have said the exterior one ever emerges — and here we must part company with treasured objectivity, and enter instead a mental domain, in which it is seen that contradictions are not errors; an inner domain large enough to contain contradictions at one level, for at another level they are seen to be no contradictions at all.

'In science as it stands, it is necessary that self-contradictions do not arise. If a hypothesis is "proven true," then it cannot be proven false — or, of course, it was never true to begin with.

'In a larger level of actuality, then, there is no beginning or end to the universe, and at that level there are no contradictions. There is no beginning or end to the psyche, either. You may say: "Granted," yet persist, saying: "In our terms, however, when did the world begin, and in what manner?" Yet the very attempt to place such an origin in time makes almost any answer distorted.'

—NotP Chapter 11: Session 798, March 21, 1977

"This is difficult to explain, for these concepts themselves exist beyond verbalization. Some seeming (underlined) contradictions are bound to occur. In comparison with those times, however, children are now born ancient, for even biologically they carry within themselves the memories of their ancestors. In those pristine eras, however, the species itself arose, in those terms, newly from the womb of timelessness into time."

—NotP Chapter 6: Session 774, May 3, 1976

"Seth was all of myself that could come through to you. You are in contact with a larger portion of Seth's reality. You are learning that self-structures are transparent. Any contradictions are merely the result of interpretations. Your first Seth is independent, and I am independent. (Pause.) Because he is a part of my reality does not mean that he is less an individual. My reality simply includes more, now, within your particular coordinates; and that last is important."

—TES8 Session 408 April 29 1968

"Some of this has to do with the complicated nature of creativity itself, and with the contradictions that seem to exist at certain levels. Your kind of creativity has always been together and jointly of a private nature--so much so that you do not even like to work in rooms too close to each other. ... Your discussion reminded him of how he used to be (pause), and also brought up in his mind the seeming contradictions of creativity, in that it is private, but usually ends up as some kind of public expression."

—TPS6 Deleted Session July 26, 1981

"Many of your misconceptions about the nature of reality are directly related to the division you place between your sleeping and waking experience, your conscious and unconscious activity. Opposites seem to occur that do not exist in actuality. Myths, symbols and rationalizations all become necessary to explain the seeming divergences, the seeming contradictions between realities that appear to be so different."

—NoPR Part Two: Chapter 13: Session 652, March 28, 1973

"The psyche as you know it, then, is composed of a mixture of these families of consciousness. One is not superior to the others. They are just different, and they represent various ways of looking at physical life. (Pause.) A book would be needed to explain the dimensions of the psyche in relation to the different families of consciousness. Here, in this manuscript, I merely want to make the reader aware of the existence of these psychic groupings. I am alert to the fact that I am using many terms, and that it may seem difficult to understand the differences between probable and reincarnational selves, counterparts and families of consciousness. At times contradictions may seem to exist. You may wonder how you are you in the midst of such multitudinous psychic 'variations.'

[... 14 paragraphs ...]

"Sometimes you act as though one ability contradicts another. You think 'I cannot be a good parent and a sexual partner to my mate at the same time.' To those who feel this way a definite contradiction seems implied. A woman might feel that the qualities of a mother almost stand in opposition to those of an exuberant sex mate. A man might imagine that fatherhood meant providing an excellent home and income. He might think that 'aggressiveness,' competition, and emotional aloofness were required to perform that role. These would be considered in opposition to the qualities of love, understanding, and emotional support 'required' of a husband. In actuality, of course, no such contradictions apply. In the same way, however, you often seem to feel that your identity is dependent upon a certain highly specific role, until other qualities quite your own seem threatening. They almost seem to be unselflike.

[... 26 paragraphs ...]

"For example: In certain terms, you are working with the challenge of how best to use the world's resources. Some countries will overproduce. Others will underproduce. Contradictions seem to occur. Some people will be overfed while others starve; some sated with material conveniences, others relatively ignorant of them. These are variations of the same theme, you see. In overall terms contemporaries are working on the same group of challenges, though either oversupply or great lack might show itself at any particular place. Perhaps, however, the challenges could not be clearly delineated without those extravagances of degree."

—UR2 Section 6: Session 735 February 3, 1975

[inavalan]

There are discrepancies, which aren't contextual. Most likely they are distortions caused by Jane's beliefs regarding the nature of reality.

One of the most blatant is the talk about historical events in some sessions, while in others talking about parallel realities. Another one is about creating your individual reality and the point of power, then describing cause-effect instances.

Sorry, I didn't read all those quotes, as it seemed a little tedious. Maybe later. ^[1]

I think that the Seth material needs to be individually intuitively interpreted, and not taken at face value, but I don't intend to convince anybody of this. There is no point in arguing about this, and actually about anything.

=====
EDIT: ^[1] I read / browsed those quotes. I don't have anything more to add at this time.

[strangerthings]

(@Mark M
Oh a couple of those I haven't ever seen! So much thanks for that!

I haven't seen the other passages in a bit of time and it wow always a refresher.

I've been into the cd's and TES as of late. So much wonderful goodies in the cd's!)

[Bora137]

I think also if anyone talks at length about reality (kind of a broad topic) there will be contradictions, also what looks like a contradiction from our pov is because we are inside a false belief system not actual reality. I also think reality is so complex it that inherent in it are contradictions or at least what appear to be so to the intellect which is wholly incapable of understanding reality anyway.

[Mark M]

Bora137 -- That's a good way to put it.

[Mark M]

A "classic" seeming contradiction some Sethniks get hung up on is thinking there really are no violations because everyone is creating their own reality -- which they are.

But there are still violations.

[Mik]

Hello,

I'm going to defend the art of all teachers: from mathematicians, to Gurus, to Seth.

Few, if any, students can comprehend something if you dump the entire load of information on to them at one time.

The teacher breaks it down into simplified pieces. And teaches as much as can be understood in one go. The teacher uses examples specific to the simplified representation of information.

As with math, the rules that apply in a three-dimensional world do not apply, necessarily, in a seven-dimensional world.

The physics that apply on the Earth do not necessarily apply in other star systems light years across the Galaxy.

What is true at one level of technicality, is not necessarily so at another.

But because teachers break things down to simplify segments, contradictions appear in the teachings. It is unavoidable. But does not nullify the truth of either point.

(Joy and) Happiness,
   Mik.

[Mark M]

Mik wrote:

"As with math, the rules that apply in a three-dimensional world do not apply, necessarily, in a seven-dimensional world."

-----=-----

"Where I am, parallel lines can and do meet."



Deleted sess of 7/18/83



--Jane Roberts, The Worldview of Rembrandt

[Mik]

Good quote.

For Seth, where he is, that is a great (and interesting) observation of mathematical geometry of parallel lines.

(Joy and) Happiness,
    Mik.

  As a complete unrelated aside, in my opinion, the most easily accessible information (and fun) on using multidimensional information applied to three dimensional space is the work of Dr Barbara Shipman involving "the communication dance" of the honey bee, and the projection of the 6-dimensional flag manifold onto space in 3D.
   That sounds complicated, but it actually breaks down quite understandably for the dance of the honey bee. Hopefully whatever articles you find have good explanations of the dance, what manifolds are, and projections. Cheers.

Apologies I drifted into a personal side math interest.

[Mark M]

Here's another ref to a seeming contradiction:

(Pause at 9:31.) I said that in your terms (underlined) all universes were created (underlined) simultaneously—at the same time. The very sentence structure has time built in, you see, so you are bound to think that I am speaking of an almost indescribable past. Also, I use time terms, since you are so used yourselves to that kind of categorizing, so here we will certainly run into our first seeming contradiction (see the last session) — when I say that in the higher order of events all universes, including your own, have their original creations occurring now, with all of their pasts and futures built in, and with all of their scales of time winding ever outward, and all of their appearances of space, galaxies and nebulae, and all of their seeming changes, being instantly and originally created in what you think of as this moment.

—Seth, Dreams, "Evolution", and Value Fulfillment: Volume Two; Chapter 9: Session 919, June 9, 1980  © 2012 Laurel Davies-Butts

[inavalan]

Here's another ref to a seeming contradiction:

(Pause at 9:31.) I said that in your terms (underlined) all universes were created (underlined) simultaneously—at the same time. The very sentence structure has time built in, you see, so you are bound to think that I am speaking of an almost indescribable past. Also, I use time terms, since you are so used yourselves to that kind of categorizing, so here we will certainly run into our first seeming contradiction (see the last session) — when I say that in the higher order of events all universes, including your own, have their original creations occurring now, with all of their pasts and futures built in, and with all of their scales of time winding ever outward, and all of their appearances of space, galaxies and nebulae, and all of their seeming changes, being instantly and originally created in what you think of as this moment.

—Seth, Dreams, "Evolution", and Value Fulfillment: Volume Two; Chapter 9: Session 919, June 9, 1980  © 2012 Laurel Davies-Butts

I see no contradiction there. It is like a software game / reality. It has all the potentials, for all the scenarios built in. You can enter the game in various points and play various characters. The time we perceive is from the moment one joins the game. The we make free-will choices that explore specific scenarios, but all those scenarios were built in during the game's design phase, so they were released at the same time when the game was released. Time is simultaneous because different players choose different game entry points (year 2024 AD, or 3000 BC, or 3000 AD, ...)