Author Topic: Seth on Jesus the Christ  (Read 149 times)

Offline Deb

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A little bit of the search engine on SethTalks, a little bit of Ron Card, a little bit of Rock n Roll. I've ordered this by date/session number.

TES5 Session 203 October 28, 1965:
Rob: Ruburt is not aware of the Jesuit’s messages, but Seth is.
(Bill remarked that in terms of our existence our Christ was a supernatural being.)
Seth: Your Christ had abilities which I still do not have...

TES5 Session 213 December 1, 1965:

Rob: Jane, very amused, commented every so often that she received little “messages” from a certain party, expressing approval of our actions, and merely suggesting that we do get to the session at least a few minutes before the Instream material was due.
Seth: All the more since you have no particular conviction, anymore than Ruburt has, concerning the historic existence of a Christ.
The legend of Christ is of great psychic import however, and is intrinsically true.

Jane's ESP Class Session, April [1?], 1969:
*([Florence:] “When I think of the millions and millions of lives that have been sacrificed in the name of Christ, in the name of God, the Jewish slaughtered back in the middle centuries with the—in the Crusades—in the name of Christ. You said the spirit of Christ had entered every person, and yet mankind does not reflect this. [...] Seth said before that there is not just one Christ, not just one person that did all the things that Christ did, but many people.”
Seth: Now, you have been given the free will because the spirit of Christ is within you, this does not mean that you do not have free will. The spirit of Christ gives you the life to do with it what you choose.
(Group discussed the concept of Christ.)

TES9 Session 510 January 19 1970:

Seth: My message to the reader will be: “basically, you are no more of a physical personality than I am, and in telling you of my reality I tell you of your own.” ( ron says...AWESOME!)
Seth: ( ron says...Seth was giving a small piece of advance information on what would be in the Christ book here in order to stimulate interest, however, Jane was the "gatekeeper" and she/Ruburt had final control and say on what Seth could SAY. Seth: There will be a chapter on the religions of the world, on the distortions and truths within them; the three Christs; and some data concerning a lost religion (pause; one of many), belonging to a people of which you have no information.

Seth Speaks, Appendix, Session 558, November 5, 1970:
Seth: You carried with you in your heads messages and laws that had been given to one of your kind in a time that was already nearly forgotten. [...] The messages were put into words and language and written down at the time of Atlantis, but after that they were handed down by word of mouth.
(To Ron): In a life in the east before the time of Christ, 1200 B.C., you were a member of a body of men who belonged to an esoteric heritage.
(The Essenes were one of the four known Jewish sects active in the Holy Land at the time of Christ.

SS Chapter 17: Session 568, February 22, 1971:

Seth: Their message was as “pure” and un-distorted as possible. [...] Now, strong portions of Jewish scriptures carry traces of the message of these early Speakers, but even here, distortions have hidden the messages.
(10:21.) In any of these worlds, the Christ drama could never appear as it appeared within your own. [...] But Buddha, like Christ, interpreted what he almost knew in terms of your own reality.
Christian dogma speaks of the ascension of Christ, implying of course a vertical ascent into the heavens, and the development of the soul is often discussed in terms of direction.

SS Chapter 20: Session 578, April 5, 1971:

Seth: Here’s question number one: You said you’d tell us about the third Christ. Also, do we need to know more about the other two personalities belonging to the Christ entity: Christ Himself, and John the Baptist?”)
Rob: Jane’s pace was quite slow.) The Christ entity was one. [...] The Christ entity had many reincarnations before the emergence of the Christ “personality” as known; as did the Buddha.
No — just the questions about the world religions, and those pertaining to the third Christ and allied subjects.

TECS3 ESP Class Session, May 18, 1971:

Seth: Those who need verbal messages most, and I am closing my eyes so no one will be offended, those of you who need verbal messages most, are those who have the greatest doubts about their own inner reality and experiences, (to Bette) but beyond that you distrust anyone who seems to have had a better education in this life than your own, and it is discrimination.
Words cannot convey the message but working from the words you can obtain a portion of the reality behind them.
Now he is a psychic entity and as such he is a valid reality, as Christ is, and you can all study that sentence.

SS Chapter 21: Session 586, July 24, 1971:
Seth: His characteristics, for example, were seemingly quite different from those of the historical Christ. [...] Yet some exploits of his in his earlier life have been attributed to Christ — not as a young man, but earlier.
When the historical Christ “died,” Paul was to implement the spiritual ideas in physical terms, to carry on. [...] He lingered after Christ, [just] as John the Baptist came before.
John and the historical Christ each performed their roles and were satisfied that they had done so. Paul alone was left at the end unsatisfied, and so it is about his personality that the future Christ will form.

SS Appendix: Session 592, August 23, 1971:

Seth: Christ, you see, was to deliver the message and John was to prepare the way for it.
Rob: (Since I knew so little about the time of Christ, it’s taken me a while to do the extra reading necessary so that I could write appropriate session notes.
(The Essene group generally known would be the Jewish sect in the Holy Land during the time of Christ, early in the first century.

TPS2, Deleted Session July 31, 1972:

Rob: Instead of telling us about it, Seth’s letting me feel the emotions of that young girl you were involved with when you were Nebene, at the time of Christ....”
Seth: “Now, I get the messages and you have to write them down, whereas before you had the ancient records and made the copies yourself.

NoPR Chapter 12: Session 649, March 19, 1973:

Seth: Christ as you think of him was simply saying that you form your own reality. He tried to rise above the idea-systems of those times, yet even he had to use them, and so the connotations of sin and punishment distorted the message given.
(See the 614th session in Chapter Two.) This belief in your society also harks back to the Bible and Christ’s association with the poor rather than the rich.

The Nature of Personal Reality, Chapter 21, Session 674, July 2, 1973:

Seth: Christ was the symbol of man’s emerging consciousness, holding within himself the knowledge of man’s potential. His message was meant to be carried beyond the times, but this interpretation is often not made.
There are indeed lost gospels, written by men in other countries in that time, relating to Christ’s unknown life, to episodes not given in the Bible. [...] The messages were given in other terms, but again they reflected the affirmation of the self and its continued existence after physical death.
Regardless, Christ’s message was one of affirmation.

UR2 Section 4: Session 711 October 9, 1974:

Seth: Each of these has its own commercials or messages, which may or may not have anything to do with the programs given.
Seth: Ruburt acts as a receiver when I speak, and so I must make certain adjustments so that my message can be channeled under conditions that involve, among other things, his nervous system and physical apparatus.
In physical terms, however, the message given that evening is still to be presented through these books.

UR2 Appendix 21: (For Session 721):

Seth: You are neurologically tuned in to one particular field of actuality that you recognize.2 In your terms and from your viewpoint only, messages from other existences live within you as ghost images within the cells, for the cells recognize more than you do on a conscious level.
You have several time and space tracks in operation at once, then, but you acknowledge only certain neurological messages physically. Seth to Rob: (To me:) Neurologically, you crossed your messages.

UR2 Section 6: Session 742 April 16, 1975:

Seth: (Long pause.) When a house is vacant all of the people in the neighborhood send out their own messages. [...] Such messages are often encountered in the dream state.
According to some Christian sects, all of this is to transpire at the Parousia, or the anticipated Second Coming of Jesus Christ, during the Last Judgment.

NotP Chapter 1: Session 752, July 28, 1975:

JANE: And I’m not ready for either of the books Seth has mentioned doing — the Christ book, or the one he talked about last month, on cultural reality. ( ron note: here is another reference to Jane putting off doing the Christ book, which seth had "shovel-ready," she was very uncomfortable with what Seth would reveal about Christ that would no doubt draw wide criticism, and it may have been impossible to get a national publisher to even print such an expose.)
(At 11:14 Seth delivered a message to a scientist who had written us, finally ending the session at 11:43 P.M.)

TPS3 Deleted Session November 26, 1975:

Seth: It is easy for you to think in terms of messages taking centuries to pass through space with your technology. In those terms only, some messages can take centuries to pass through the psyche—that greater psyche that straddles the eons.
Christ said that with faith you could move a mountain.
From: SS Introduction book rob chapter students mine
“Through these voices, these intuitions, these flashes of insights and messages, the universe speaks to us, to each of us personally. You are being addressed, and so am I. Learn to hear your own messages, not to distort what you hear or translate it into old alphabets.
Rob: After the first few sessions, the pointer spelled out messages that claimed to come from a personality called Seth.
The messages seemed to begin where Idea Construction left off, and later Seth said that my expansion of consciousness experience had represented his first attempt at contact.

TPS4 Deleted Session January 9, 1978:

Seth: Now: the message of the Christ entity was, in religious terms “You are all children of God—the ‘sinner’ as well as the saint.” Indeed, according to the original Christ thesis, while a man could sin, no man was identified as a sinner.
Rob: See Chapter 21 of Seth Speaks for more on the Christ entity. According to history, Christ was crucified, and the other two members of Seth’s Christ entity, John the Baptist and St. [...] It would be interesting to get more data on the whole Christ question. As I told Jane after the session, Seth’s Christ material tonight reminded me of the idea of the Christ book, which Seth mentioned in Personal Reality.)
Seth: The message was “Do not condemn yourself or others,” for Christ well knew that self-righteous condemnation of the self or of one’s neighbors served to darken the door through which man might view his own potential and its greater source.

NoME Chapter 4: Session 829, March 22, 1978:

Seth: Christ’s message was that each man is good inherently, and is an individualized portion of the divine — and yet a civilization based upon that precept has never been attempted. The vast social structures of Christianity were instead based upon man’s “sinful” nature — not the organizations and structures that might allow him to become good, or to obtain the goodness that Christ quite clearly perceived man already possessed.
Rob: I’d say that in this 829th session Seth spoke out of a knowledge of biblical tradition and history; that is, he wasn’t saying that Christ did rise from the dead or ascend into heaven, but referring to Christianity’s interpretation of its own creative Christ story. Seth has always maintained that Christ wasn’t crucified to begin with — indeed, he told us in the same private session that “… in the facts of history, there was no crucifixion, resurrection, or ascension. In the terms of history, there was no biblical Christ. In the terms of the biblical drama (underlined), however, Christ was crucified.
Seth: Christ, as you know, was a common name, so when I say that there was a man named Christ involved in those events, I do not mean to say that he was the biblical Christ. His life was one of those that were finally used to compose the composite image of the biblical Christ.”

TPS5 Deleted Session September 27, 1978:

Seth: Christ, as you understand him historically to be, spoke in parables and symbols. Men often took him literally, but his message was that the spirit of God was within each person—in terms of the symbolism, each person being a child of the father who dwelled in heaven. But heaven meant an inner reality for Christ, not an exterior one.
For centuries, priests of one kind or another have been put in charge of “reading God’s messages,” and interpreting them to the rest of mankind, just as in later times the scientists have been put in the position of interpreting man’s own world to him—in terms quite as esoteric as those of any religion.

TPS5 Deleted Session November 15, 1978:
Rob: He ignores the message, and sleeps, muttering in protest at the discomfort, and then it takes him another hour or so after breakfast, simply because he did not move the body when it was ready to move.
The Word, by Irving Wallace, is a book on the discovery of an unknown gospel by the brother of Christ, James the Just.

TPS5 Deleted Session December 2, 1978:
Seth: And if you write what you feel it must not matter, for your message wilt reach people all over the world. And if you do not write what you feel then the message has no meaning.
For peace is active *(to Sheri, Rick and Van Zandt.) *And so if there is any message that I have for your students, as usual it is not a quiet one.
([Anne Marie:] “Will that be related to the Third Christ at all?”

NoME Chapter 6: Session 844, April 1, 1979:

Seth: The Christ drama is a case in point, where private and mass dreams were then projected outward into the historical context of time, and then reacted to in such a way that various people became exterior participants — but in a far larger mass dream that was then interpreted in the most literal of physical terms. Even while it was, it also got the message across, though the inner drama itself was not recalled; and as the dream merged with historical events, and as it was interpreted by so many, its message also became distorted — or rather, it mixed and merged with other such dreams, whose messages were far different.
“Because dreams are such a perfect combination of stimuli from the inner environment and the exterior environment, other events are often used to trigger inner dream messages, just as the opposite occurs. And in a gathering of three people watching the same TV drama, say, each of them might be interpreting different portions of the program so that those portions correlate with their individual dreams of the night before, and serve to bring them their dream messages in ways they can accept …
“Great discrimination is used to do that; for example, one newspaper item is noticed over others because a certain portion of that item represents some of the dream’s message. Another portion might come from a neighbor — but from the dreamer’s interpretation of the neighbor’s remarks, that further brings home the dream message.

DEaVF2 Chapter 9: Session 920, October 6, 1980:

Seth: If the messages were to be clearly deciphered and understood, then of course the game would be over, for the one to understand the message would be the united self who [had] felt the need of such camouflaged self-troops (hyphen) to begin with.
Rob: [Later I remembered hearing a bit of that.] Our caller had received a number of pages of information from Jesus Christ.
Seth: The language is an excellent example of the coded messages I mentioned earlier (as I’d thought). It is supposed to remain secret, you see, yet becomes the symbol of the all-powerful knowledge of the exaggerated superior self, while making the knowledge impossible to act upon.

DEaVF2 Chapter 9: Session 921, October 8, 1980:
Seth: The Christ figure represents the exaggerated, idealized version of the inner self that the individual feels incapable of living up to. [...] He may—or of course she may—on other occasions receive messages from the devil, or demons, which on their part represent the person’s feelings about the physical self that seems to be so evil and contradictory in contrast to the idealistic image.
(Pause.) Communications between various scattered portions of the self often appear, again, in such situations as automatic writing, speaking, the hearing of voices, or through what the person believes to be telepathic messages from others.
The supposedly telepathic messages can be attributed to contemporaries—enemies, gods, devils, or what have you.

« Last Edit: December 02, 2017, 05:19:11 PM by Deb »

Offline Sena

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Quote from: Deb
Seth: The Christ figure represents the exaggerated, idealized version of the inner self that the individual feels incapable of living up to. [...] He may—or of course she may—on other occasions receive messages from the devil, or demons, which on their part represent the person’s feelings about the physical self that seems to be so evil and contradictory in contrast to the idealistic image.
Deb, thanks for all these quotes. DEaVF2 is a book I haven't read. This particular quote - "The Christ figure represents the exaggerated, idealized version of the inner self that the individual feels incapable of living up to" - seems to indicate clearly that Seth did not consider Christ to be a flesh-and-blood human being. Here Christ is a "mythical figure" in the same category as the mythical figure of the devil but in an opposite sense.

P.S. I have now downloaded DEaVF2 for my Kindle. The above quote needs to be taken in context - Seth is there explaining why a person suffering from schizophrenia may consider himself to be Christ.
This is another quote from the book:
"The story of the Creation, as Biblically stated, is the symbolic representation of a master event..... The same applies to Christianity itself, for all of the seemingly historical events connected with the official (underlined) Christ did not happen in physical reality." (Session 928)
« Last Edit: November 28, 2017, 09:39:13 PM by Sena »

Offline Deb

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Quote from: Sena
"The Christ figure represents the exaggerated, idealized version of the inner self that the individual feels incapable of living up to" - seems to indicate clearly that Seth did not consider Christ to be a flesh-and-blood human being. Here Christ is a "mythical figure" in the same category as the mythical figure of the devil but in an opposite sense.

Awesome deduction, but then that makes me again question how much of the information Seth provided about biblical "history" was colored by Jane's early training. But, I don't doubt the quality of most of the information that came through Jane, as I think religion was the biggest thorn in her side. Pun intended.

Offline Deb

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My confusion on whether Seth said Jesus was real or not came from Seth not distinguishing between the man we now call Jesus, the Christ entity (begetting three men, Jesus, John the Baptist, Paul), and the Christ or Jesus Christ figure created by the church and new testament. Seth rarely uses the name Jesus, most times he refers to them ALL as Christ. Christ was a title, Jesus is a name.

So, to sort this out I've looked through several quotes again. My interpretation is that Seth said there was a real man Jesus (Christ), one of the three, that comprised the Christ entity:

Quote
"The Christ entity desired to be born in space and time, to straddle creaturehood in order to serve as a leader, and to translate certain truths in physical terms."
—NoPR Chapter 21: Session 674, July 2, 1973

"There were three men whose lives became confused in history, and merged, and whose composite history became known as the life of Christ, for example"
—TES9 Session 491 July 2, 1969

"John the Baptist, Christ, and Paul were all connected in the dream state, and John was well aware of Christ’s existence before Christ was born."
—SS Chapter 21: Session 588, August 2, 1971

"The church ignored Christ’s physical birth, for example, and made his mother an immaculate virgin, which meant that the consciousness of the species would for a longer time ignore its relationship with nature and its feminine aspects."
—UR1 Section 2: Session 690 March 21, 1974

"The historical Jesus knew who he was, but he also knew that he was one of three personalities composing one entity."
—SS Chapter 21: Session 586, July 24, 1971

But whoever this Jesus-the-man may have been, he is not the 'person' described throughout Christian history. According to Seth, that figure is a myth, a legend:

Quote
“… in the facts of history, there was no crucifixion, resurrection, or ascension. In the terms of history, there was no biblical Christ. In the terms of the biblical drama (underlined), however, Christ was crucified."
—NoME Chapter 4: Session 829, March 22, 1978

"Your Christ figure represents, symbolically, your idea of God and his relationships. There were three separate individuals whose history blended, and they became known collectively as Christ — hence many discrepancies in your records."
—SS Chapter 14: Session 560, November 23, 1970

"The same applies to Christianity itself, for all of the seemingly historical events connected with the official (underlined) Christ did not happen in physical reality."
—DEaVF2 Chapter 9: Session 928, November 12, 1980

"Christ tried to return man to nature. In a manner of speaking, again, there was no one Christ, historically speaking, but the personage of Christ, or the entity, was the reality from which the entire dramatic story emerged."
—TPS4 Deleted Session January 23, 1978

So after all of this, I'm thinking Seth does not contradict himself, it was just a matter of sorting out who he was referring to when he said Christ in the various quotes.

It also now seems to me that the books saying Jesus never existed could be the same issue of lumping together Jesus the man and Jesus the Christ figure. They are all saying that Jesus the man was manufactured, but maybe what they really mean is the person we think of as Jesus, the Christ figure, never existed, is a legend composed of previous mythical figureheads, old testament, ancient gods and fables, inflated attributes and stories meant to be parables, allegories or just plain bull. I suppose I'd have to read all of them to know for sure. I won't.

Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2018, 04:23:42 PM by Deb »

Offline LarryH

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Quote from: Deb
So after all of this, I'm thinking Seth does not contradict himself, it was just a matter of sorting out who he was referring to when he said Christ in the various quotes.

Deb, that matches my position. I do have a minor issue with Seth's discussion of Christ, where he said somewhere that Christ was a common name at the time. I thought when I read it that he meant the name 'Jesus' (in whatever form it was at the time), not the title 'Christ'. Although, it is possible that the term for 'Christ' was taken on as a mantle by many, pretenders to the position, as it were.

Offline Sena

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Quote from: Deb
They are all saying that Jesus the man was manufactured, but maybe what they really mean is the person we think of as Jesus, the Christ figure, never existed, is a legend composed of previous mythical figureheads, old testament, ancient gods and fables, inflated attributes and stories meant to be parables, allegories or just plain bull.
No, Deb, it is not just plain bull. I posted a quote elsewhere on this site which stated that a "myth" is something very important but difficult to put into words. This may explain the apparent contradictions. If we look at what Neville Goddard wrote, it is clear that he is also trying to understand the Christ myth, but it may be that we should try to look at the underlying meaning of his words:
"As your own wonderful human imagination Christ is telling you that he knows you are afraid, that you have obligations in life which must be met, but to not be afraid for “I will go and prepare a place for you.” Knowing this, close your physical eyes upon the world round about you and let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid, for all things are possible to Christ in you! Let him prepare the state, for he is the way to its fulfillment."

http://realneville.com/txt/christ_in_you.htm

 

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