Author Topic: Personal telepathy experiences  (Read 2727 times)

Offline Deb

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If anyone else here has had experiences that they might consider proof of ESP, it would be great if you would share them.

Quote from: Joelr
The Seth stuff is awesome. I just don't know why psychic abilities can't ever be shown to be real, even a little?

"As I have said often, evidence of clairvoyance, telepathy, or whatever, are not eccentric, isolated instances occurring in man’s experience, but are representative of natural patterns of everyday behavior that become invisible in your world because of the official picture of behavior and reality."
—TMA Session Ten: September 10, 1980

There is a lot of fake stuff out there, for sure. There are books out there like this one, I haven't read it but there are there other books written by 'credible' authors (meaning well-educated, non-celebrity types). ESP/telepathy is not that obvious for us, I guess it depends on what you're willing to accept. Our ESP is not supposed to be obvious, maybe one of the house rules of being in this 3D world. I'm the type that will take anything anyone else says with a grain of salt, preferring to examine my own personal experiences and then decide whether what's happened could be proof or simply coincidence.

The train wreck in the news today reminded me of a dream I had when I was still in high school. It was a very short dream, just a snapshot really, where I saw a long train coming around a bend, I think on around the side of a mountain or hill. The train derailed, cars well falling down the mountainside. I could hear people shouting and screaming with fear. It really shook me up. When I got up that morning to go to school I turned the radio on while I was getting dressed, and a train had derailed somewhere in Pennsylvania early that morning. Not the same scenario as in my dream, but still a derailment. Since I never dream about trains, I have to wonder.

Around the same year I dreamed I was a cowboy (or cowgirl), again a very short "snapshot" dream. I had all the 'Hollywood' cowpoke clothes on, was swaggering into a saloon through the swinging half-doors. Someone threw a bar stool at my head and I ducked. In the real world, I woke myself up by quickly sitting up in bed. A split second later an old, large, heavy (decoupage on a wood slab) picture fell off the wall at the head of my bed, landing on the pillow where my head was seconds earlier. The linen fabric attaching the hanger on the back had given away from old age. It wouldn't have killed me, but getting hit smack in the face would have left a mark, bloody nose, possibly a small concussion. Another coincidence?

More coincidences, this happens to a lot of people: Often soon after I think of someone I haven't heard from in a while, they will phone, text or email me, or better yet we will run into each other in some place far from our typical stomping grounds. Or someone will say some random thing that I'm thinking about.

Two years ago I decided I would close this forum because no one was posting. I was about to contact Lynda Madden Dahl to remove the link to here from her web site, Seth Network International. The same day I was going to do that, another Seth forum (that had been around for years) decided to close and asked if they could please send the members over to Speaking of Seth. Needless to say, SoS is still here.

I guess what I'm saying is that there can be proof of ESP depending on what we want to accept as proof and not write it off as coincidence. That's as far as proof can go for me, as I've never personally tried to sit down with someone who can read my mind perfectly, tell me what's in blank envelopes, or work with Zener cards. The tests that have been done with random number generators just don't cut it for me, the percentages are too low to impress me. I did once, on a lark, have a psychic reading that amazed me. I was told very specific things about my past and present that no one knows about. Unique and specific things a stranger could not randomly guess.

Offline usmaak

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Quote from: Deb
Two years ago I decided I would close this forum because no one was posting. I was about to contact Lynda Madden Dahl to remove the link to here from her web site, Seth Network International. The same day I was going to do that, another Seth forum (that had been around for years) decided to close and asked if they could please send the members over to Speaking of Seth. Needless to say, SoS is still here.
I am very glad that you all are still here.  Seth is on the fringe of the popular LoT movement (if it can be called that).  It's easy to find people that want to discuss LoT, but the responses never get deeper than, "hey, did you know that if you want something, all you have to do is act like you already have it?????"  If you go any deeper than that, eyes cross and the conversation ends.  I've had people ask me if I "practice The Secret" before.  lolol. 

It's difficult to find someone with whom one can discuss Seth.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2018, 09:34:26 AM by usmaak »

Offline Deb

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Quote from: usmaak
It's difficult to find someone with whom one can discuss Seth.

We're all on the same boat.
I agree about the LoT stuff. I knew about A-H before Seth, it eventually seemed shallow to me, watered-down Seth and commercially presented to the public as a quick-fix for anything. But it was an introduction for me to the Seth concepts, which were completely new to me. Because Estherham's teachings are rooted in Seth, it's not bad, only incomplete. And since it seems most people don't want to get involved in discussions or writing (the Facebook generation), A-H is very popular. The Secret was supposedly "stolen" from A-H by Rhonda Burns. "Abraham" has had some resentful things to say about that. Not very sage-like if you ask me. But then I've also seen "Abraham" throw someone out of the hotseat because they asked a question he didn't want to answer ("we're not going to talk about dead pets today").

Personally I don't know anyone in my circle that gives a hoot about Seth, but while talking about the Seth stuff would be nice, I really enjoy writing on the forum. Gives me more time to explore my thoughts, and I love getting new ideas from the other members here. I've learned SO much since I started the forum. And we have members all around the world, some of whom I've had the pleasure to meet in person.


Offline usmaak

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My circle is more like a triangle.  I don't really associate with anyone on a day-to-day basis, besides my wife and my cat.  ;D  It is nice to have the online interaction.

Offline usmaak

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Regarding telepathy.  Seth says that it is our default state.  Telepathy is the glue that holds it all together.  It's the reason why we can live in a shared world.  It's why you and I can agree that there is a brown chair sitting there, even though my brown chair and your brown chair are actually two chairs.  We agree to the fact that right now my wife is sitting in her chair and I am looking at her sitting in my chair.

I'm a huge sci-fi reader/tv watcher/movie watcher and telepathy is a huge theme in what I read and watch.  It's always assumed that telepathy is one person sitting there, either influencing another person, reading someone's mind, or moving objects or whatever.  But what if that's not actually the real definition of telepathy?  What if the actual definition is Seth's definition.  Not mind reading.  Not influencing others or moving things, but just that subtle but all powerful communication at a level that most of us never actually recognize?  That could explain why there's never actually any proof of telepathy.  The proof is in all of this.  The proof is in the brown chairs that we sit in and the events that we all agree on under the surface, for our own reasons.

What if that's the proof, but in our search for proof of mind reading, we just don't see and recognize the proof that literally slaps us in the face every millisecond of our lives?

Perhaps the "sci-fi" definition of telepathy is wrong and that kind doesn't exist.

Offline transient amnesia

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« Last Edit: March 06, 2018, 12:38:26 PM by transient amnesia »

Offline transient amnesia

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« Last Edit: March 06, 2018, 12:37:49 PM by transient amnesia »

Offline transient amnesia

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« Last Edit: March 06, 2018, 12:37:26 PM by transient amnesia »

Offline Sena

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Quote from: transient amnesia
Thus the medium loses a great amount of ectoplasm and a great amount of the substance of his aura in giving it to entities or astral corpses of subtle worlds.  These eventually will sap the medium totally.

Most mediums will manifest diseases related to the lymph and will experience weakness of the aura.
TA, this is quite interesting. It suggests that Jane made a sacrifice for humanity by channelling Seth. When you watch videos of her you can see the effort she was making.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2018, 12:35:02 AM by Sena »

Offline transient amnesia

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« Last Edit: March 06, 2018, 12:37:03 PM by transient amnesia »

Offline Deb

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Quote from: usmaak
What if that's the proof, but in our search for proof of mind reading, we just don't see and recognize the proof that literally slaps us in the face every millisecond of our lives?

Well you have a good point there. Like air. I take it for granted, don't think about it, unless there's a problem. Can't see/taste/smell/touch it either, unless again, there's a problem. (Well, this comes to mind too, lol: "Sex is like air; it's not important unless you aren't getting any." — John Callahan)

Back in 2005, I was in the Yukatan. Second day into vacation with another family. With our kids. I was walking on a pretty much deserted beach with the song from Harry Potter (Double Trouble/something wicked this way comes) looping in my head (I get a lot of messages via music lyrics, my head is sort of like an old Stephen King novel, lol).

Eventually I sat down on the beach to watch Hurricane Wilma in the far distance. I could see the surface of the ocean. It occurred to me that all I could see was the surface. Yet I knew there was more under there: fish, eels, dolphins, shells, coral, weeds, shipwrecks even. But none were visible. I was that fish in the bowl, only in reverse. I think that was the first time that really hit home for me: just because I can't sense something with my five senses, doesn't mean it's not there. It was a bit of cheating on my part though, as I've been scuba diving and seen all those nature channel programs on sea life so I knew what was there. But still… it was an obvious illustration of the concept of our nearsightedness.

So, we all decided to cut our losses and get out of Mexico asap. The biggest concern was we had two 10 year old boys with Juvenile Diabetes with us and regardless of everyone telling us the storm would miss us, we bolted. Got the LAST PLANE OUT and while we questioned our decision, we later found out that the town we'd been in was hit hard. People were stuck in Mexico for two weeks after the storm. Most of them had gotten "tourista" from contaminated water and unsanitary living conditions. SO glad we got the boys out.

Had a little blip tonight. I was getting ready to work at my second job, part-time at an art supply/framing shop. I was drying my hair, more than an hour before I had to leave. I heard my phone downstairs ding with a text. I was going to get into the makeup thing, and then had the feeling it might be my boss telling me to not come in. Which she has done… never. Sure enough, it was an extremely slow day at the store and she asked me to not come in. So here I am, posting.

Quote from: transient amnesia
The cruise ship vacation was a gift that he had bought for her and hadn't told her yet.   Ooopsey! 

Oooo baby, now THAT'S what I'm talking about!

I'm glad you appreciate this forum. I sure enjoy it. Please don't feel you're shared too much, we're all in the same boat and honestly, no one here is going to show up on your doorstep. Well, maybe I will. I love to travel. But we all know each other here somewhat and relate. And as you say, with the telepathy thing, secrets are an illusion.

Quote from: usmaak
Perhaps the "sci-fi" definition of telepathy is wrong and that kind doesn't exist.

Good point again. The telepathic communication Seth talks about is an undercurrent of connectivity, natural, not flashy, goes unnoticed by us. The other stuff could be the Hollywood version.

But then… I had the impulse today to start a "what's in the bag?" esp board where we can take turns putting an object in a bag and then others give their impressions. The idea has come up here a couple of times. Each instance would have its own topic so members can add their impressions. Anyone interested?

OK, now I'm going to watch the Principia videos.



Offline transient amnesia

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« Last Edit: March 06, 2018, 12:36:42 PM by transient amnesia »

Offline Joelr

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Quote from: usmaak

 What if the actual definition is Seth's definition.  Not mind reading.  Not influencing others or moving things, but just that subtle but all powerful communication at a level that most of us never actually recognize?  T

It's a possibility but the idea has some problems. Think about how many people are often around other people who are intending to do them harm - physical harm, theft, any type of bad intentions, even from people we personally know. Like being with a lover who is cheating on you or a co-worker who is somehow not acting in your best interest behind your back.

We rarely know about these actions or intentions. Or it's so common that we have no idea if a person is romantically interested (or uninterested) in us. Unless we get visual and verbal clues, that can give us insight.
But I don't see the presence of any 6th sense at work.
The only ESP we experience are the coincidences which could easily be confirmation bias.

Like I think about someone I haven't seen in 10 years and they call right then. Actually, in our crazy hurricane of thoughts we have all day long we DO think of that person, probably a lot, but quickly move on to other matters.
So eventually when they call it might be close to one of those thoughts making it seem like esp.

I've had amazing coincidences that do make me wonder but then why can't anyone tame this ability and actually use it in a consistent way?

Remember - no one predicted 9/11. No one predicted the internet. No psychic predicted the Red Sox would win that year where they had to beat the Yankees like 9 times in a row to win.
I didn't see any psychic predictions about Donald Trump being president?

I'm sure if you went back to the end of WW1 there were zero psychics predicting Germany would rise up and conquor Europe and all that other stuff. No Pearl Harbor predictions. Or Las Vegas gunman at Mandalay Bay.

It's always just generic predictions. "you're thinking about making a change in your life", "you're going to meet someone special soon"

Offline Deb

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Quote from: Joelr
Remember - no one predicted 9/11. No one predicted the internet.

Hmmm. I seem to recall stories of people who had precognitive dreams of 911. Maybe bull, I'll need to research that, but how do we know what's really real? And I think Jane predicted the internet...

Quote from: Joelr
It ruined new age for me.

I know what you mean. I've long called myself an optimistic skeptic, meaning while I question everything I also try to keep an open mind. Open enough, at least, to new ideas and then research them, to give them my gut-feeling test. I've said it before: the Seth materials are the first thing in my life that have made sense to me, not to mention the massive amount of the cohesive and consistent written material, the lack of pomp and circumstance around Jane/Seth, the lack of financial gain. Abraham Hicks made sense for me for a while, but in retrospect it is because that is all based on Esther's memorizing the Seth materials. Same with Mike Dooley: He is pure Seth (and a little Ayn Rand). It always comes back to Seth for me. The Secret? Stolen ideas by Rhonda Byrne from Abraham Hicks, which is based…on… Seth. Really, a lot of the stuff out there is rooted in Seth. My reasoning with the Hicks, etc. stuff: ditch the middleman and return to the source. Seth.

True, there are a lot of so-called new age metaphysic gurus out there, more so now than ever, with the internet being the way it is. A lot of capitalists and charlatans are more than happy to prey on people who are naive, hurting or just looking for answers. It's nothing new. Gypsies. Snake oil salesmen. No doubt been around as long as humans have.

Proof of telepathy: It's hard, I think, to produce solid proof for something non-physical in our physical existence. We are such slaves to our physical senses! I was thinking about 'proof' today with respect even to the sciences, and really just about everything we've been told about science, medicine or physics is all theory (until they become myths) but are presented to us as facts and for the most part we accept them as such. How often are those 'facts' retracted and replaced by new facts? A lot, during my lifetime. Jeez, we don't even know what's good for us to eat. Just today I (finally!) read a new study that flips the food pyramid over completely—high protein and fats in our diet are suddenly healthier for us than grains and other carbohydrates, not causing heart disease and even preventing strokes. These are things Weston Price was saying in the 1930s. The innate wisdom of our ancestors, before the government started telling us what was healthy while the westernized population has continued to become sicker and sicker…

My feeling about proof of telepathy is that we are not "there" yet. Seth has said more than once that things like ESP will be proven, but right now our scientists are looking for proof in all the wrong places. We don't have the right tools. Not the quote I've been trying to pin down, but a compromise:

"As a group the scientists rigorously oppose the existence of telepathy or clairvoyance, or of any philosophy that brings these into focus. Only lately have some begun to think in terms of mind affecting matter, and even such a possibility disturbs them profoundly, because it shatters the foundations of their philosophical stance."
—NoME Chapter 6: Session 846, April 4, 1979

So, not as much serious research out there being done about telepathy compared to other scientific interests. And let's not talk about my lack of faith in scientific studies and how special interests and biases shamelessly distort study findings.

Personally, I do feel there is telepathy, I've had too many far-fetched coincidences in my life to think it does not exist. We are operating here on the level of our ego, our outer selves, which are focused in this physical reality.  There are too many who are making it into a parlor trick for their own gain. But telepathy not a big deal for me, I just accept it for what it is.

Honest question: Why is ESP/telepathy so important to you? It feels like proof of its existence is a basis for a lot of beliefs for you.


PS
Another small personal ESP story: a couple of weeks ago I had a dream about a friend that was just the briefest flash of a dream. He was smiling, I saw his profile, the right side of his face. I could see his teeth, normal looking, but one of the teeth (#4) was orange/brown. A couple of days later I found out that he had a tooth infection and had to have two teeth removed in that exact area. No rational reason for the dream. This friend lives more than 5,000 miles away.

« Last Edit: February 19, 2018, 09:34:01 PM by Deb »

Offline LarryH

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Apropos to this discussion, here is a quote from The Personal Sessions, Book Five:

Quote
"One note: Framework 2 shows itself in your frame of reference through play, unpredictability, surprises. Now you know that people who simply refuse to accept the existence of clairvoyance, say, will not find any evidence for it. They will not allow it to invade their world, even though they may say they seek such evidence. You must. Therefore, remember Framework 2. Look for signs of its existence, for surprises, for unexpected solutions in any and all areas.

Otherwise you will only be left with the world's 'official evidence.' You must be prepared to change, to grow, even to give up habits. The old world view, the official one, may still be comforting you, for it is shared by millions."

I like the idea of sharing our personal ESP experiences, although they will never convince someone looking for "proof". So much of the data in this realm is anecdotal, which is always easily dismissed by those who demand proof. For those who have had the experience, they need no proof. For most of those who demand proof, even direct experience will be doubted or even interpreted as hallucination, an overactive imagination, possibly something wrong with them mentally. But for serious searchers, google Dr. Gary Schwartz, who has done controlled studies of many clairvoyants. Look into the government's history of Remote Viewing. Check out the survey results of FREE (The Dr. Edgar Mitchell Foundation for Research into Extraterrestrial Encounters) here: http://www.experiencer.org/.

Note: "Extraterrestrial" at that website includes much more than we commonly consider as such, to include for instance encounters with ghosts or spirits, energy beings, small animal beings, etc.

Offline usmaak

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I had this friend once.  I always knew when she was in trouble.  I always knew when she was upset or needed to talk, and I'd call her so we could talk.  She always mentioned how it was funny that somehow I always knew when she needed to talk.

Maybe I was in tune with her.  Maybe we had a psychic connection.  Maybe she just always had issues and I was playing the odds.  Bet if I call Beth, she'll have something that she needs to talk about.  ;D

Who knows.  Definitely not proof, but it comes to mind when thinking about this.

Offline Deb

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Einstein's theory of "spooky action at a distance." Was Einstein a charlatan? A nut job? A fraud? Why are there so many well respected physicists and scientists that are interested in and support the concept of telepathy/esp/entanglement? For one example, Dr. Edgar Mitchell. And Remote Viewing—yes! Russians were the forerunners. And then:

https://www.sciencealert.com/physicists-just-quantum-entangled-photons-between-earth-and-space

"Once scoffed at by Einstein, quantum entanglement is a strange phenomenon that occurs when two or more particles link up and instantaneously affect each other, regardless of how far apart they are."

Quote from: LarryH
I like the idea of sharing our personal ESP experiences, although they will never convince someone looking for "proof".

I totally agree. For me, I am only looking for my own personal proof, but to compile instances of others' personal proofs would be interesting. Personal proof or experiences are the only kind of  proof that are the most trustworthy for me. And even then, I can only say my inexplicable experiences tell me there is more than meets the eye and I can't make any concrete conclusions. And my experiences tend to be subtle and not sensational, as the Internet seems to focus on.

@LarryH your post, and quote, are spot on as far as I'm concerned. Old world view indeed.

Quote from: usmaak
Maybe I was in tune with her.  Maybe we had a psychic connection.  Maybe she just always had issues and I was playing the odds.  Bet if I call Beth, she'll have something that she needs to talk about.

Well then, test your maybes. That seems like a great starting place. You seem open to new ideas. Maybe not absolute proof of telepathy, but you present an open door.


Offline Joelr

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Quote from: Deb
Einstein's theory of "spooky action at a distance." Was Einstein a charlatan? A nut job? A fraud? Why are there so many well respected physicists and scientists that are interested in and support the concept of telepathy/esp/entanglement? For one example, Dr. Edgar Mitchell. And Remote Viewing—yes! Russians were the forerunners. And then:

https://www.sciencealert.com/physicists-just-quantum-entangled-photons-between-earth-and-space

"Once scoffed at by Einstein, quantum entanglement is a strange phenomenon that occurs when two or more particles link up and instantaneously affect each other, regardless of how far apart they are."


You're a bit off on a few things here:

 Einstein originally had a problem with quantum mechanics because if it was true he pointed out it would imply "spooky action at a distance" or instantaneous communication between particles regarding their spin state.
If the spin of one particle is changed or oriented a certain way the other particle takes the opposite state instantly.

It turned out that there IS an instant connection or "spooky action at a distance" which is now called entanglement.
It's also known in modern physics that this communication cannot be exploited to send any type of faster-than-light signal.

Now how this relates to telepathy however is....well it doesn't. Spin states have nothing to do with thoughts in our minds. Telepathy doesn't even need to be faster than light, I can communicate with people slower than light using sounds. The question is can our consciousness be transmitted outside of our brain and picked up by another consciousness. It even could be slower than light.
Thoughts cannot be"imprinted" onto particles and using concepts in physics to even suggest ESP is a reality just doesn't work.

I'm all for figuring out if ESP is real but the new-age world has been throwing around science words and creating false impressions and misusing science.

There are almost ZERO well respected physicists and scientists that are interested in and support the concept of telepathy/esp/entanglement? You don't spend 8+ years in scholarship and then publicly support wu-wu, that's the opposite of what happens in scientific circles.
I'm not putting new-age down, science obviously doesn't know everything, but in scholarship you either act conservative or your career is going down the tubes.

 Dr. Edgar Mitchell is NOT a physicist, he's an ex-astronaut who got into new-age after he retired. He adds no scientific credibility to anything except aeronautical engineering and being an astronaut.
His personal interests in ESP and such came later in life, after his career, and he's just a curious layman like us.

Just because one had a career in some science doesn't mean they can't be curious about ESP or other fringe subjects. But this doesn't mean the fringe subject is any more real or factual. Edgar Mitcchell is not a working scientist currently using NASA grant money to prove ESP as a reality. That would be something we could put a stake in, but as it stands this is not the case.

So anyway, Einstein's position on entanglement was actually that it CANNOT be true and he argued this point until he died. While obviously not a nut job he actually was wrong in that particular argument.

Other people, psychologists maybe, have done studies on ESP using test subjects and reading images off cards and trying to send the information to other people in different rooms and the military have done work with remote viewing. It never adds up to any positive evidence. Yes it's super disappointing, to me anyways.

Offline Joelr

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Quote from: Deb


Honest question: Why is ESP/telepathy so important to you? It feels like proof of its existence is a basis for a lot of beliefs for you.



Yes it's super important to me. I am a fan of Seth but I also believe the scientific method is our best attempt to discover what is true and what isn't. It obviously changes with new discoveries but you are putting that in an almost-negative light (like the food pyramid) but actually that's exactly why science is good - we keep searching, improving our knowledge and even better - when we discover we are wrong we change the theory.
That's actually really important. That's what you want. Having a close-minded view or a view that what you believe is the absolute truth is usually a terrible way to know what's real.

Now if science were always changing AND society and technology was going nowhere, I would say something was wrong with our method.
But that's simply not true, because of the scientific method we have gigantic leaps in quality of life - health care, food, technology and we have vast amounts of knowledge about the universe to enjoy and use to build upon for future generations.
So science works and I believe it can also be helpful in discovering what metaphysical belief systems may be real.
I get where people say "ESP can't be proven by science yet because this or that....." but it doesn't ring true to me. For one that's the same thing religious fundamentalists say about their religion. Another thing is if science can't demonstrate ESP is real then why would we expect it to be useful in everyday life.

In other words, say doctors tested a pill that cured the common cold and then they put it on the market.
When people asked about the tests the pharma companies said "well it cures colds sometimes but not better than the placebo, but we think it works better than that, just not during testing. The conditions aren't right during testing." You would know, hands down, no questions asked that this pill did not work.

So the advantage of putting a metaphysical theory to the test is that it might help to solidify your belief and help answer many of the questions we have about life and death.
But the downside is when it doesn't seem to hold up then it might be time to re-think things.

I see a lot of Seth concepts indirectly show up in modern science so that's cool.

The ESP/psychic stuff I see as a total failure in terms of being any different than confirmation bias and psychology so that leaves me a bit confused and unsure about Seth.


Offline Joelr

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Quote from: LarryH
Dr. Gary Schwartz


I love Seth and am a fan of Deepak Chopra but Schwartz is a fraud. He actually said that Allison DuBois does have psychic powers and can really contact dead people.
Allison DuBois is a cold reader, a craft which had been debunked beyond any doubt. Allison DuBois refused the million dollar challenge and there isn't any question as to the trickery of how cold readers produce results.

The governments testing of remote viewing produced no proof of ESP. You think the government would actually discover that remote viewing is real and could be used to spy on our enemies and then drop the entire program???????
Jean Grey is real but the military doesn't want to spend any money on her?? Do you see how this is just not a reality?


There would be gigantic universities with campuses bigger than Microsofts campus in Seattle if remote viewing was even a little bit real for gods sake!? Think about it. They would be paying citizens fortunes to develop their psychic abilities. It would NOT be a secret program because the word would need to be everywhere to ensure any citizen with abilities was scooped up by the government. They would be enticing people with excellent pay grade and all sorts of benefits if they could make use of remote viewers.

I don't know about the absolute reality of remote viewing but the government certainly didn't get results.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2018, 04:37:48 AM by Joelr »

Offline Joelr

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Quote from: Deb

PS
Another small personal ESP story: a couple of weeks ago I had a dream about a friend that was just the briefest flash of a dream. He was smiling, I saw his profile, the right side of his face. I could see his teeth, normal looking, but one of the teeth (#4) was orange/brown. A couple of days later I found out that he had a tooth infection and had to have two teeth removed in that exact area. No rational reason for the dream. This friend lives more than 5,000 miles away.



Interesting, maybe ESP just works here and there?

Another possibility, last time you saw your friend live or in a photo your subconscious mind noticed that tooth was slightly off then just happened to have that dream near the time his tooth got infected?
I don't know?

Offline LarryH

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Quote from: Joelr
 Dr. Edgar Mitchell is NOT a physicist, he's an ex-astronaut who got into new-age after he retired. He adds no scientific credibility to anything except aeronautical engineering and being an astronaut.
His personal interests in ESP and such came later in life, after his career, and he's just a curious layman like us.

Why does Edgar Mitchell need to be a physicist? He founded FREE as well as the Institute of Noetic Sciences. He is no longer with us, but the organizations are. One need not be a scientist to found organizations whose purposes are to apply serious research into the topics. Take a look at the survey results of FREE. You can suggest that the self-reports of thousands of people (including my own) are all the result of lying or delusional thinking, or you can acknowledge that something is going on.

Quote from: Joelr
The governments testing of remote viewing produced no proof of ESP. You think the government would actually discover that remote viewing is real and could be used to spy on our enemies and then drop the entire program?

The government's use of remote viewing was a tool used for many years that helped to verify information obtained in other ways. When its program's funding became dependent on approval by congress, it was dropped because too many of our elected officials did not want to be seen as supporting "witchcraft". My sources are multiple interviews with people who were involved in the program.

Offline Joelr

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Quote from: LarryH


Why does Edgar Mitchell need to be a physicist? He founded FREE as well as the Institute of Noetic Sciences. He is no longer with us, but the organizations are. One need not be a scientist to found organizations whose purposes are to apply serious research into the topics. Take a look at the survey results of FREE. You can suggest that the self-reports of thousands of people (including my own) are all the result of lying or delusional thinking, or you can acknowledge that something is going on.

Well he needs to be a physicist or scientist in this case because the post I was responding to said "well respected physicists and scientists..." and then said "One good example is...." and then used Edgar Mitchell as an example. So since Edgar is neither, it makes sense to point out that the "one good example" is actually not even an example at all. Do you get that?

As to the idea that the reports of ESP could not be lying or delusions this can be debunked with simple facts.
Right now over 2/3 of the entire world believe in conventional religions. I think it's safe to say everyone here on the Seth forum don't believe in traditional religions however this means that around FOUR BILLION PEOPLE have delusions that their religion is true or are lying about their religion.

So if that many people can believe in a false doctrine then why can't people who believe in whatever other supernatural ideas also be mistaken.
It holds no weight to try to argue from authority, ever, but in this case it's actually even worse. Besides cooky religious beliefs look at how many people get into cults or believe in Big Foot or whatever. Or for that matter lie or exaggerate stories about this or that.

I also think it's misleading to limit the choices to lying or delusions. It sounds too negative. A lot of it is simple psychology, memory tricks, NLP, vision mistakes, cognitive bias. If you put something to the test it should work. Show me some reliable studies done on ESP, that would be great.

Quote from: LarryH
The government's use of remote viewing was a tool used for many years that helped to verify information obtained in other ways. When its program's funding became dependent on approval by congress, it was dropped because too many of our elected officials did not want to be seen as supporting "witchcraft". My sources are multiple interviews with people who were involved in the program.

Again, if it worked it would be funded and congress would not be required to sign off on any funding whatsoever.
I've seen Senator Binden and physicist Michio Kaku give speeches on how there is around 1 trillion dollars missing being used in black budgets. There was also a 60 Minute special where a former gov employee who was on an oversight comittee for gov. spending tried to chase this money down and he was stonewalled and ended up quitting his job out of frustration.

1 Trillion dollars that congress has no say whatsoever. Yet there are zero remote viewers making money or working for anyone in any official capacity.
If it worked it would be being developed by the military.

Maybe it works in some way, but for sure it didn't produce results in the military.


Offline LarryH

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Quote from: Joelr
Well he needs to be a physicist or scientist in this case because the post I was responding to said "well respected physicists and scientists..." and then said "One good example is...." and then used Edgar Mitchell as an example. So since Edgar is neither, it makes sense to point out that the "one good example" is actually not even an example at all. Do you get that?

I did not read your comment about his not being a scientist in the context of the "example" by Deb. But the programs are staffed by scientists, so the fact that the founder was not a scientist has no meaning. Regarding FREE, from an email that I received:

Quote
The Co-Chairs of this research study are Dr. Jon Klimo, a retired Professor of Psychology and one of the world’s leading academics on the “Paranormal” and Dr. Bob Davis, a retired Professor of Neuroscience at the State University of New York.

Here is a link to a list of scientists at the Institute for Noetic Sciences: http://noetic.org/research/faculty-staff

Quote from: Joelr
Right now over 2/3 of the entire world believe in conventional religions.

Comparing self-reports of ESP to belief in conventional religions is not an apples to apples comparison. One is experience, the other is belief. Many people have had their religious beliefs challenged by their paranormal experiences, and experience usually trumps belief.

Offline transient amnesia

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« Last Edit: March 06, 2018, 12:35:02 PM by transient amnesia »

Offline Joelr

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Quote from: LarryH

Here is a link to a list of scientists at the Institute for Noetic Sciences: http://noetic.org/research/faculty-staff

I've seen some of this work. This time I picked something recent that directly involved psi studies,
A Bayes Factor Meta-Analysis of Recent Extrasensory Perception
Experiments: Comment on Storm, Tressoldi, and Di Risio (2010)

So a paper from 2013 that is analyzing a meta-study done in 2010 that concluded positive results for psi phenomenon.
Well, the summary end like this:

"In summary, although Storm et al.’s (2010) meta-analysis seems
to provide a large degree of support for psi, more critical evalua-
tion reveals that it does not. In our view, the evidence from Storm
et al. for psi is relatively equivocal and certainly not sufficient to
sway an appropriately skeptical reader."

There is a lot of stuff like this or papers saying one thing then other papers saying the results were inconclusive. I also believe Dean Radin is cooking his statistics somewhat after listening to some of his lectures on youtube. He's always selling a book so that's super-sketchy.

There really isn't any good evidence for ESP. The Noetic group isn't really bothering with that so much, they are working on many other concepts like how yoga effects healing and things directly related to physiology and medical sciences. That stuff is great. It's really not an institute for just paranormal studies.

This paper:

Consciousness and the double-slit interference pattern: was great because we need to study the double slit experiment further in it's possible relation to consciousness. So it's great they have people doing that. Unfortunately it's just a first step and further testing is needed to draw any conclusions.

It's great there are funds to try alternate double-slit experiments that might demonstrate if consciousness really does cause the wave collapse. But none of the publications from that institute contains definitive information on the reality of ESP.

Quote from: LarryH
Comparing self-reports of ESP to belief in conventional religions is not an apples to apples comparison. One is experience, the other is belief. Many people have had their religious beliefs challenged by their paranormal experiences, and experience usually trumps belief.


Paul started Christianity through his knowledge of scripture (old testament) and "revelations" from God.
Priests often speak of "the calling" as an intense emotional and spiritual experience that solidifies their faith and sets them on a path to the cloth. It's sometimes described as being so real and unquestionable that they became converts for life right then and there.

So, no, whatever supernatural hook one wants to hang their hat on, there will be all kinds of "proof".

I'm not saying ESP isn't real, I'm saying it hasn't done well with testing for one and another big problem is the industry psi-professionals like cold readers and psychics have been proven to be using a skillset they have learned over time and this skillset does not include any actual psi use, it's all tricks and misdirection.

Offline Deb

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Quote from: Joelr
Well he needs to be a physicist or scientist in this case because the post I was responding to said "well respected physicists and scientists..." and then said "One good example is...." and then used Edgar Mitchell as an example. So since Edgar is neither, it makes sense to point out that the "one good example" is actually not even an example at all. Do you get that?

Sorry for not being totally clear in conveying my line of thought and lumping Mitchell together with physicists and scientists. He was 'merely' an astronaut, engineer, and surprised me when I read in The Field about his own personal experience with telepathy during one of his missions. Where I was going with that was that many people proposing the existence of telepathy and other "paranormal" occurrences are not all backwoods, uneducated or gullible. Many are well-educated and respected individuals. And yes, just because they are well-educated does not mean that they are not mentally ill or have weird quirks, just curiosity. Yet I've had my own small personal experiences, don't feel the need to convince anyone else.

Quote from: Joelr
Where are you?

Not in the Bible Belt. I live just south of Denver, and yet we have (in my opinion) an inordinate amount of church complexes (as I consider them). MASSIVE christian churches (seating up to 3,500, such as http://chcc.org/campus/). So many people attend Sunday services that the local police have to direct traffic when services end. There is yet another one under construction in this area. I don't understand. We have more churches than Starbucks, and that's saying something.

Quote from: Joelr
Another possibility, last time you saw your friend live or in a photo your subconscious mind noticed that tooth was slightly off then just happened to have that dream near the time his tooth got infected?
I don't know?

No reason to suspect the friend even had a tooth in that area. I've never seen his teeth, in person or in a photo. It was probably just a coincidence. Just like the time when my first husband was having a dream that my father had died… at the same time I got the phone call that my father had died. I was 20. And the death was totally unexpected. Another coincidence. I try not to compartmentalize or label things like this, just make a mental note that something outside of average has occurred.

PS
Thomas Campbell is great. I have the full Big Toe volume, have yet to make my way though the entire thing.

« Last Edit: February 21, 2018, 04:02:30 PM by Deb »

Offline Sena

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Quote from: Deb
We have more churches than Starbucks, and that's saying something.
"America Is Still A Strongly Christian Nation".
"Two-out-of-three Americans still believe the central tenets of Christianity, that Jesus Christ was the son of God who was resurrected on Easter Day."
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/lifestyle/holidays/april_2015/america_is_still_a_strongly_christian_nation
God bless America. Better than Russia and China. How many Sethites in China? Or anything similar to Seth in China?
« Last Edit: February 21, 2018, 05:23:06 AM by Sena »

Offline transient amnesia

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« Last Edit: March 06, 2018, 12:34:34 PM by transient amnesia »

Offline transient amnesia

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« Last Edit: March 06, 2018, 12:34:16 PM by transient amnesia »

Offline LarryH

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Quote from: Sena
How many Sethites in China? Or anything similar to Seth in China?

Last year's Seth Conference presentations included a section by Dr. Nan Lu, entitled: Seth and Chinese Medicine: A Common Thread. Another presenter was Dr. Tien-Sheng Hsu, who has co-written two books, A Guide to Enlightened Parenting and Secret to Healing Cancer: A Chinese Psychiatrist and Family Doctor Presents His Amazing Method for Curing Cancer Through Psychological and Spiritual Growth.

Offline Deb

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Quote from: Sena
Better than Russia and China.

Yes, America is still a strongly Christian nation.
Communism=atheism.
Freedom of choice is very important to me.
Freedom of religion/freedom from religion.

Quote from: transient amnesia
Kidding? right?

Yes, apparently Putin is a Christian. Russian Orthodox religion was big until the USSR/Communism took over. I've seen some of the most amazingly beautiful cathedrals in St. Petersburg, dating back to pre-USSR. In the Russian Federation, people worship as they please as far as I can tell. The government tries to keep out extremist religions, but apparently (by recent terrorist acts), they are not totally successful. Great video.

Half the time I don't know what to believe, especially when I see things like: "China will soon have the largest Christian population in the world, according to a government-sponsored survey. David Aikman (author of Jesus in Beijing: How Christianity is Transforming China and Changing the Global Balance of Power, 2003) predicted that over the next three decades, China’s Christian population will grow to about 400 million, or one-third of China’s population."  Huh?

While I'd always thought the USSR was focused purely on the "acceptable" sciences, they were the ones that studied remote viewing and telepathy during the cold war, as early as the 1950s, which is what got the US interested. (Tim Rifat, I have his book, this is an interesting page). When I started this forum, I found out from a member that some of the Seth books are available in Russian, can be bought online, although I've heard the translations are not great. I bought one myself last year in Saint Petersburg. I was also introduced to Vadim Zeland, a mysterious Russian author who writes sort of along the lines of multiple universes, you make your own reality, etc. I listened to part of his book on Reality Transurfing, but while some of it fit in with Seth, parts of it didn't make sense to me and I gave up. Yet, some of the Russian people that found this forum got their start with Vadim, he opened their minds to Seth. Kudos to him.

Quote from: LarryH
Dr. Tien-Sheng Hsu

YES! I had heard of him a few times, and the last time I took the Seth Intensive a few years ago he turned up and Rick asked for some personal communications to get him involved in the conference. My first reaction was, "thank god, a real doctor embracing Seth—this is the beginning."


Offline Sena

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Quote from: LarryH
Quote from: Sena
How many Sethites in China? Or anything similar to Seth in China?

Last year's Seth Conference presentations included a section by Dr. Nan Lu, entitled: Seth and Chinese Medicine: A Common Thread. Another presenter was Dr. Tien-Sheng Hsu, who has co-written two books, A Guide to Enlightened Parenting and Secret to Healing Cancer: A Chinese Psychiatrist and Family Doctor Presents His Amazing Method for Curing Cancer Through Psychological and Spiritual Growth.

Larry, thanks for reminding me of this.

Quote
Grand Master Nan Lu, is founding director and president of  the Traditional Chinese Medicine World Foundation, the country’s foremost educational organization for traditional Chinese medicine. He is also founder of breastcancer.com and The Breast Cancer Prevention Project. As Grand Master of Wu Ming Qigong, he is a lineage holder of ancient knowledge not found in today’s textbooks. He has devoted his life to preserving the unique body–mind–spirit wisdom of TCM and Wu Ming Qigong. A longtime TCM practitioner, his mission is to help patients and his Qigong students discover their healing abilities and the effect of consciousness in everyday health. Dr. Lu’s latest book is Digesting the Universe: A Revolutionary Framework for Healthy Metabolism Function, a major work that addresses the multidimensional aspects of today’s chronic health issues. He holds a doctorate in traditional Chinese medicine from Hubei College (University) of TCM, China, and is a clinical associate professor at the State University of New York (SUNY) at Stony Brook, School of Social Welfare.

http://www.taoofhealing.com/about-tao-of-healing-acupuncture-qigong/grand-master-lu/

It appears that Dr. Nan Lu felt the need to emigrate to America.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2018, 09:14:34 PM by Sena »

Offline Joelr

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Quote from: Deb

Not in the Bible Belt. I live just south of Denver, and yet we have (in my opinion) an inordinate amount of church complexes (as I consider them). MASSIVE christian churches (seating up to 3,500, such as http://chcc.org/campus/). So many people attend Sunday services that the local police have to direct traffic when services end. There is yet another one under construction in this area. I don't understand. We have more churches than Starbucks, and that's saying something.
PS
Thomas Campbell is great. I have the full Big Toe volume, have yet to make my way though the entire thing.



Wow that's disappointing. Joseph Campbell (the Power of Myth guy) did such a great job in the 1980's debunking where Christian mythology comes from, he was the first well known comparative religion professor who traveled the world and really mastered all of the worlds myths and showed the common links among all of them and broke down the differences and how they emerged.
He's very famous and the 3 CD interview with Bill Moyers is on Netflix, it's really heavy, it's up there with the best of Seth.

But it didn't catch on and change our culture the way it could have. Now with the internet and the spread of information religions will probably slowly dissipate in the US but it will take a while.

I'm checking out the other Campbell now, Tom Campbell.
Oh god damn it, he started out really interesting then he just said about crop circles "There are groups of scientists who have concluded there is something strange here and they have done lots of analysis and just can't figure out whats going on and the conclusions they come to are humans cannot do this...." "Virtually impossible that humans could do this..." "Scientists are saying we cant' do this here.."

No scientist ever said this, implied this, ever. In fact people have admitted and demonstrated their handywork in creating very intricate crop circles. He said you can't do crop circles in the dark. The people who create them actually show the head lamp they use.
He's saying crop circles are not created by aliens but are evidence that his theory of virtual reality is true and crop circles are the result of "cheat codes" in reality which prove his theory is correct.

Ugg. So the question is why is he lying? He's not an idiot, he knows no scientist thinks this about crop circles. Does he have a legit theory but he's pandering to the new age crowd to sell more books? Or is his entire stuff just nonsense?

Why can't he just stick to his theory, he's validating silly beliefs to make crop circle people go "yay he believes in crop circles, I'm gonna buy his book".

Now he said he presented his theory to physicists first but they ignored him so he wrote some pop-sci books aimed at the general public.
I'm trying to find his theory, the actual mathematical framework, I can't find it. Are there any links to his actual theory (a theory presented to physicists would have to be in a mathematical framework) so I'm thinking there really isn't any theory.

A TOE refers to a theory that isn't literally a theory of "everything" but a theory that unifies quantum mechanics with gravity and obviously has to unify both through equations. If it includes consciousness that would be even better. But it can't just be an idea, like a book with words, it would be a published paper mathematically unifying QM with gravity and the equations would make predictions that we could test and a whole new physics would emerge.
You can't just say "I know...... reality is a virtual reality". Even if you say it really long with 3 books. There has to be some actual theory. I can't find it?

Offline transient amnesia

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« Last Edit: March 06, 2018, 12:33:24 PM by transient amnesia »

Offline LarryH

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In the mid-60's, my best friend and I as young teenagers experimented with sending images to one another. While I concentrated on a photo in a magazine, he picked up that I was looking at one of Lyndon Johnson's daughters. He named the one not in the photo, so not a 100% hit, but awfully close. When it was my turn, I "saw" a row of men with what I interpreted as all wearing white sailor caps with the brims turned down. The photo that my friend was concentrating on depicted a row of men wearing white helmets. If I had known of the protocols of remote viewing (which came later), I would have simply described the color and shape of the head gear instead of my interpretation or guess as to what the head gear was, and that would have been considered a 100% hit.

Offline transient amnesia

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« Last Edit: March 06, 2018, 12:32:21 PM by transient amnesia »

Offline LarryH

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Quote from: transient amnesia
Larry,
Have you been watching the Brett Stuart videos I posted?

No, perhaps as time permits. I have studied protocols of remote viewing, though not in depth, nor have I experimented with it. But I was once acquainted with someone who had gone through RV training and claimed significant success, just as a hobby.

Offline transient amnesia

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« Last Edit: March 06, 2018, 12:31:59 PM by transient amnesia »

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« Last Edit: March 06, 2018, 12:31:35 PM by transient amnesia »

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« Last Edit: March 06, 2018, 12:31:12 PM by transient amnesia »

Offline Neo

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Quote from: Joelr
Quote from: Deb


Honest question: Why is ESP/telepathy so important to you? It feels like proof of its existence is a basis for a lot of beliefs for you.



Yes it's super important to me. I am a fan of Seth but I also believe the scientific method is our best attempt to discover what is true and what isn't. It obviously changes with new discoveries but you are putting that in an almost-negative light (like the food pyramid) but actually that's exactly why science is good - we keep searching, improving our knowledge and even better - when we discover we are wrong we change the theory.
That's actually really important. That's what you want. Having a close-minded view or a view that what you believe is the absolute truth is usually a terrible way to know what's real.

Now if science were always changing AND society and technology was going nowhere, I would say something was wrong with our method.
But that's simply not true, because of the scientific method we have gigantic leaps in quality of life - health care, food, technology and we have vast amounts of knowledge about the universe to enjoy and use to build upon for future generations.
So science works and I believe it can also be helpful in discovering what metaphysical belief systems may be real.
I get where people say "ESP can't be proven by science yet because this or that....." but it doesn't ring true to me. For one that's the same thing religious fundamentalists say about their religion. Another thing is if science can't demonstrate ESP is real then why would we expect it to be useful in everyday life.

In other words, say doctors tested a pill that cured the common cold and then they put it on the market.
When people asked about the tests the pharma companies said "well it cures colds sometimes but not better than the placebo, but we think it works better than that, just not during testing. The conditions aren't right during testing." You would know, hands down, no questions asked that this pill did not work.

So the advantage of putting a metaphysical theory to the test is that it might help to solidify your belief and help answer many of the questions we have about life and death.
But the downside is when it doesn't seem to hold up then it might be time to re-think things.

I see a lot of Seth concepts indirectly show up in modern science so that's cool.

The ESP/psychic stuff I see as a total failure in terms of being any different than confirmation bias and psychology so that leaves me a bit confused and unsure about Seth.



I agree with you that the scientific method has brought a lot of positive changes and improvement on our planet. Just think about the technology that we have now, it would've seemed like magic before. So yes, the scientific method definitely works in its own way. However, when it comes to proving psychic abilities/ESP, I think the biggest obstacle is that people's attitudes at large aren't ready for it yet. As Seth has said, the scientists themselves affect the results that they gain from their experiments (and here the double split experiment comes to mind). And if the scientist conducting the study doesn't believe that psychic phenomenon exists, they will most definitely affect the results of the study in some way. Now, the same goes for the participants - if they are skeptical of their own skills, then it will affect their skills in the experiment.
What I am trying to say here is that we as humans are so complex and easily influenced, that we have to be very careful in the way that we conduct experiments in order to get the most 'truthful' results (however what is truthful if reality itself is malleable?). I think in order for us to get clearer proof of these abilities we need a more open-minded society (or at least open minded people), and scientists who would hopefully understand the human condition a bit better. The funny thing is that you would think scientists are the more open minded and advanced people but the truth is, they can be the most stuck up of all.. Of course I am talking generally here, but really as the academic community itself is so conservative and protective of its pre-existing ideas, it can be very hard to even try to suggest the possible existence of these phenomena, as it has been largely brushed off as woo-woo. Now I do think that we will get there someday, but it might take a bit more time before these things start to be accepted at a larger level (though we are getting there).

In my own life I have definitely become convinced by now that these phenomena exist and are real. I've had messages about upcoming events from what I guess you would call spirit guides, as well as flashes of intuitional knowing. My boyfriend and I think about the same things all the time, and though someone might think this is due to just being familiar with each other, this happened especially in the beginning of our relationship (when we were still friends and didn't even know each other that well). Same happens with my friend, as well as mom. And I'm not only talking about instances where we are discussing something and someone says the same thing the other is thinking, but stuff like me thinking about something totally random and then getting a text from my friend about it, or she mentioning it when we meet. The weird thing is that these occasions have increased a lot in the past two years, and now it's just become so normal I don't even get surprised anymore - and I guess the weirdest thing is that when this happens, even though it is surprising in a way, there is always a knowing present, a feeling of "yeah, of course it would be like this".
Strange, but I like it.  ;D
« Last Edit: March 02, 2018, 05:45:12 AM by Neo »

Offline Joelr

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Quote from: Neo

I agree with you that the scientific method has brought a lot of positive changes and improvement on our planet. Just think about the technology that we have now, it would've seemed like magic before. So yes, the scientific method definitely works in its own way. However, when it comes to proving psychic abilities/ESP, I think the biggest obstacle is that people's attitudes at large aren't ready for it yet. As Seth has said, the scientists themselves affect the results that they gain from their experiments (and here the double split experiment comes to mind). And if the scientist conducting the study doesn't believe that psychic phenomenon exists, they will most definitely affect the results of the study in some way. Now, the same goes for the participants - if they are skeptical of their own skills, then it will affect their skills in the experiment.

Right but here is the thing with the double split experiment - the results are still consistent, if we choose to measure a particle then we always get a particle and if we measure for a wave then we always get a wave.
It has nothing to do with emotions.

Now you can say "oh well the psychics who were tested were nervous and this adversely effected the results".
Sure, but every time?? 100% of every test the performers couldn't perform? The only way to interpret that is that there simply isnt' any powers there to test.
It's no different then if we did a "pray to Jesus" study. We all know that eventually, the more and more stats we get we will see it's exactly the same as random chance. Sometimes it works sometimes it fails. We see no evidence of statistics being swayed by a personal deity. The same thing holds for the deity being ourselves.

If you want to say your theory about peoples emotions not being ready and people's attitudes at large aren't ready for psychic powers, that might work if you consider the average scientist who is very skeptical of ESP phenomenon. Very skeptical people, and they should be.

But now let's think about the people who actually ARE doing the testing. Scientists like Dean Radin, Dr Tiller, Dr. Fritz-Albert Popp and so -on, they are SUPER KRUNK about magic powers being real. The test subjects they use are lifetime practitioners of meditation and similar eastern practices.
I've read their books, I hear your hypothesis and I have to say it's 100% not the case. These people are ready. Both scientist and subject.



Quote from: Neo

What I am trying to say here is that we as humans are so complex and easily influenced, that we have to be very careful in the way that we conduct experiments in order to get the most 'truthful' results (however what is truthful if reality itself is malleable?). I think in order for us to get clearer proof of these abilities we need a more open-minded society (or at least open minded people), and scientists who would hopefully understand the human condition a bit better. The funny thing is that you would think scientists are the more open minded and advanced people but the truth is, they can be the most stuck up of all.. Of course I am talking generally here, but really as the academic community itself is so conservative and protective of its pre-existing ideas, it can be very hard to even try to suggest the possible existence of these phenomena, as it has been largely brushed off as woo-woo. Now I do think that we will get there someday, but it might take a bit more time before these things start to be accepted at a larger level (though we are getting there).

Reality isn't necessarily malleable it's probabilistic. The only things we can say for certain are spoken as probable events.
From the subatomic - will this electron take this orbit or that orbit right up to the macroscopic - it might rain, the sun might go supernova in 5 billion years etc....

You are right that the academic community is so conservative and protective but there are reasons for that.
I don't agree that people need to be more open minded, how is that even possible? Think about what people believe?
Right off the bat we know 2/3 of civilization believe in a personal god? Right there 4 billion people believe in a fairy tale?!
Then we have people believing in Big Foot, Roswell, alien abductions, billions of dollars spent worldwide on psychics and cold-readers.....if humans were any more open minded we would probably be unworthy of being a technological civilization and bump ourselves right back to the stone age.

Which we almost have several times because of our open mindedness to tribalism?! Hello Cuban Missile Crisis.

People - close your minds a little!

When you say "get there" what do you mean? Obviously people already believe in a swath of supernatural happenings?
A handful of scientists have tackled the ESP thing, including the military with no results to show? So what are you hoping will happen?






Quote from: Neo

In my own life I have definitely become convinced by now that these phenomena exist and are real. I've had messages about upcoming events from what I guess you would call spirit guides, as well as flashes of intuitional knowing. My boyfriend and I think about the same things all the time, and though someone might think this is due to just being familiar with each other, this happened especially in the beginning of our relationship (when we were still friends and didn't even know each other that well). Same happens with my friend, as well as mom. And I'm not only talking about instances where we are discussing something and someone says the same thing the other is thinking, but stuff like me thinking about something totally random and then getting a text from my friend about it, or she mentioning it when we meet. The weird thing is that these occasions have increased a lot in the past two years, and now it's just become so normal I don't even get surprised anymore - and I guess the weirdest thing is that when this happens, even though it is surprising in a way, there is always a knowing present, a feeling of "yeah, of course it would be like this".
Strange, but I like it.  ;D

It's probably confirmation bias, we notice the hits and ignore misses. People even do it with cold-readers. Derren Brown videotaped a cold reader medium doing a reading for a woman. The reader was contacting her dead relatives.
After the reading she was like "there is no way he could have known this or that",  and she believed that he got almost all "hits".
Derren reviewed the tape and showed that the truth was the cold reader actually had like 90% misses and was all over the place but the hits is all she remembered because they stood out.

You could settle this easily with some tests among you and your friends. Have a 3rd party take 50-100 flash cards and write either a number, a letter or a draw picture on each card. In the upper corner also number each card.

Then have someone you believe you are "connected" to look at each card in another room. Have them stare at the image for at least 1 minute while you concentrate and write down on a blank flashcard what you see in your mind. Your cards will also be numbered so you can match up the cards later in case they get messed up.

You do realize that people who are friends and relatives, people we each associate with frequently, are people we tend to think a lot alike. The more time we spend with a person this gets even more pronounced.
I know we tend to think of ourselves as "advanced" thinking humans but we are actually very predictable and routine with our thoughts. This is the principle that psychics, mind-readers, NLP people, psychologists and so on all use to do their magic.

The probability that 2 people are thinking of the same thing at the same time is very high that it happens once in a while.
The whole point of psychic power being real is to make it happen at will. Not at random, that already happens because the world works probabilistically!


In fact, an even simpler test, think of a Rubicks cube (or something no one would guess) often and tell your friend you are thinking of an object. Think of it often and whenever your friend gets a "psychic" intuition about what the object is then have them tell you.
See how long it takes before they see the object in their mind.

Offline transient amnesia

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« Last Edit: March 06, 2018, 12:24:48 PM by transient amnesia »

Offline Joelr

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Quote from: transient amnesia
Quote from: Joelr
Then we have people believing in Big Foot
Yep, I believe they would be classified as a window faller

 "Window faller" is a Cassiopaean term for various odd animal-like creatures reported throughout history. The chupacabra phenomenon for example could be a case of window fallers. The Mothman of the 1970's would be one. Spring-Heeled Jack of London folklore from the 19th century would be another.

These come into human perception through an accidental breach between adjacent 'realms' or parallel universes.

Phenomena such as the mysterious disappearances of the Bermuda Triangle may capture these creatures in their world of origin and deposit them on Earth in a somewhat flukish manner. A certain conceptual similarity makes it so that they land in a world and density that is at least in part comprehensible to them. It is possible that hyperdimensional maneuvers performed by UFOs or the like may as a side effect open windows between worlds where such window fallers then inadvertently get captured.
https://thecasswiki.net/index.php?title=Window_faller


Couple problems, first off is the most obvious, why wouldn't those things just be mythology?
Being a Seth forum I assume we all realize organized religions are not real so this gives around 4 billion examples of people who believe in something that isn't real.
If you follow ufo folklore you can see examples of people straight up lying about crashed ships and riding in alien spacecraft.

All that aside, if there are alternate dimensions that just open up with enough space for a giant ape to pass through then why don't we notice any type of dimensional breach during experiments in particle accelerators?

Also what you suggested is a violation of the conservation of energy. The universe so far shows very very strict rules about energy creation and destruction. There has never been any evidence of energy just leaving the universe.

A much bigger discovery than finding a mothman or big foot would be the fact that there are other universes and not only are they connected to ours, they open holes up and things pass through. That's a much more fantastic discovery.

Now if a hole opened up and a Mothman came through that means that the holes are not rare. Because to open up just at the time a Mothman is walking through that space (or Bigfoot) would mean that holes probably open up quite often.
In order for a random hole to open and actually have a large creature pass through you would need holes opening up fairly frequently as there aren't just 7 foot tall creatures walking around all over the place.
So why don't we see holes opening up? Why not in cities? Why don't intelligent creatures come out?

In a separate universe even if a hole opened up from a Earth-like planet to our universe why would it happen to open exactly where a Earth-like planet in our universe would happen to be? 99.999999999999999999999% of the universe is not an Earth-like planet so why would a hole happen to open up at just the right spot?

There would be holes opening up everywhere but we don't see that. The holes that opened up would also generally just put anything that passed through into outer space since that's what most of our universe is.
Even if a hole opened up on an alternate Earth-like planet and lead to our solar system, why our Earth be in the same spot going around the sun?

It would have to be an exact copy universe where the planets and sun evolved exactly the same and at the same time.

It's not a very strong theory. All things considered I believe these stories of creatures are simply stories or hallucinations.
Or as Paul liked to call them "revelations".

Offline LarryH

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Quote from: Joelr
...but here is the thing with the double split experiment - the results are still consistent, if we choose to measure a particle then we always get a particle and if we measure for a wave then we always get a wave.
It has nothing to do with emotions.

The way we "choose" a particle in that experiment is to observe it. The way we "choose" a wave is to not observe it. You are correct that it has nothing to do with emotions. But it does have to do with consciousness. Consciousness collapses the waveform. Without consciousness, we have no stuff. Quantum physics 101.

Offline LarryH

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Quote from: Joelr
It's probably confirmation bias, we notice the hits and ignore misses.

It stands to reason that it might also be confirmation bias if we notice the misses and ignore the hits. An example is claiming that the military has "no results to show" regarding ESP. You dismiss every study that shows positive results as being because the scientists who did the study believe in ESP. It is just as logical to say that every study that shows negative results is because the scientists who did the study did not believe in ESP.

Offline transient amnesia

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« Last Edit: March 06, 2018, 12:23:54 PM by transient amnesia »

Offline transient amnesia

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« Last Edit: March 06, 2018, 12:22:12 PM by transient amnesia »

Offline transient amnesia

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« Last Edit: March 06, 2018, 12:21:53 PM by transient amnesia »

 

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