Author Topic: Seth and Abraham-Hicks  (Read 14443 times)

Offline Deb

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Today the friend who introduced me to Abraham-Hicks several years ago (the path that led me to the Seth materials) emailed me a link of YouTube media with Abraham/Esther Hicks (or as I call her, Abrahamster) discussing Seth. I had mentioned our forum to this friend a week or so ago and although he has no interest in Seth (he's an Abraham fan), it seems like it made him at least curious.

Here's a link to just one audio where Abrahamster explains Seth's statement about 4 people in a room creating 4 different coffee tables. She also mentions towards the end (3:35) the concept that an abandoned house deteriorates faster than an occupied house, even if the occupants are not doing anything to maintain it: "attention to something is maintenance of it." 

Here's the abraham seth search results link: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=abraham+seth

I'll add more links as I listen to them. It's nice to get fresh explanations of Seth's concepts, worded in different ways.

Toronto Sethian

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‘Abraham’ is a conscious fraud.  Let's look at the evidence in this sad affair.

Abrascam is a blemish what good work there is in the area of channeling (not
much).  Read these less-known aspects of ‘Abraham’.

1.  'Abraham' says it is a being composed of 100 beings, including Buddha
and Jesus and Mohammed.  For one disincarnate being, he is not smartest
cookie; for a gestalt being of a 100 including those three heavy-hitters, he
is downright stupid.  Sounds impressive though.  And Cher said she is
Cleopatra, Queen of the Nile.  Everyone’s always famous in past lives!!
Except Seth.

2.  A Contradiction Ignored:  In a 1990 workshop (09/23/1990), a guest asked
Abraham about crop circles. Abraham said that extraterrestrial beings were
coming to earth and that "their intent is to interact with your planet in a
way that they can glean some information. In other words, they are sensing
from the very core of your planet as they sit upon it. They have chosen to
set down in areas where they are not disruptive. And so their mission has
many intentions all of it information gleaning and none of it intending to
interfere or hinder your life experience whatsoever." They went on to say
that the aliens were here to collect data, "of a seismic nature."

This answer was given in 1990, before Doug Bower and Dave Chorley came
forward in 1991 and took credit for starting the crop circle hoax.
Regardless of the validity of crop circles, Abraham has backed off their
statement regarding alien visitors. In a 2004 workshop (07/03/2004 Alaska),
they were asked again about crop circles. They made it perfectly clear that
they were all "man made," without exception.

Whoa!!!!  180 degree turn on that one.  Spiritual whiplash, anyone??

3. 'Abraham' was actually Jesus the man:  Earlier, speaking as Abraham,
Hicks connected herself firmly to Jesus (and other prominent religious
figures like Buddha and Mohammad): "That which Jesus was, Esther is,"
'Abraham' said.  Esther is a counterpart of Jesus.  Hmm, I see the
resemblance in the hair...

4.  Excerpted from the workshop in Ashland, OR on Tuesday, May 16th, 2000:
'Abraham' said that a selfish child is "like Jesus" who didn't bother
himself with concerns about others' "toylessness?"  No need to care about
others!

5. Animal abuse is...teaching a child:  A concerned mother who had
inexplicably come to Esther for advice introduced a new concern.  It worried
her--she couldn't stay "in the vortex"-- that her son had a habit of kicking
the family's cat.  'Abraham' ordered her not to interfere. It was between
her kid and the cat. The cat was "teaching" the brat, according to
'Abraham'.  This is bizarre hogwash.

6.  in 2011, Jerry Hicks fell ill with leukemia. This they hid from the
public--duplicity and secrecy.  Then Jerry ignored 'Abraham's' approach and
chose chemotherapy--but they hid this choice, too.  Not very spiritually
enlightened--to the contrary.  Jane had health problems.  She didn’t hide
them because readers might not buy into Seth because of it—lost sales on
Esther’s and Jerry’s minds at the time??

7.  On their website, any questions that touch upon areas they don't like
are removed.  All the above examples are not allowed to be discussed.
Suppression of discussion of reasonable questions and concerns is the norm.
Spiritually repellant.

8.  When Jerry first began appearing ill, they said it was the result of a
spider bite. 'Abraham' appears entirely lacking in accurate intuitive
abilities--why did 'it' not tell them that, instead, he had cancer or
correct their misunderstanding and speak to the deeper, more serious issue
at hand? Not so good for a purported 100-being entity that lived as Jesus
and is in contact with Buddha and Mohammed, not so good at all.

9. One of the issues I have with Esther is that she teaches people to fear
negativity. And she says a belief is just a thought you keep thinking over
and over. She says nothing of getting to the core of your beliefs - just
think happy thoughts and that will fix everything. It's a bit more complex
than that. If you've ever been on an Abe forum or group, they ban anyone who
questions anything or who is too "negative." And when I say negative, I
don't mean critical of Abraham (not that that would be allowed, you can't
question "him"), it's like they're so afraid of negative feelings that if
you speak of them, only bad things will happen to you.


10.  Says she is speaking for Seth, now, too.  How stupid Seth has gotten.
I wonder what happened to him?

11.  Another lie revealed:  Jerry and Esther claim that they had never heard
of the “Law of Attraction” pre-Abraham, but it is clear that Jerry had easy
exposure to these words via his favorite authors--Ernest Holmes, Napoleon
Hill, and Charles Fillmore--and his past with Amway, a major proponent of
New Thought materials. He and Esther’s (or Abraham's) “Law of Attraction”
and “Art of Allowing” are indiscernible from the New Thought ideas of “Law
of Attraction” and the "Law of Non-resistance." Their materials also
incorporate popular examples and analogies from the New Thought movement.
However, they continue to claim these ideas were inspired via some means
other than the authors who made them famous nearly a hundred years before
Jerry and Esther were even around. If Esther has received this wisdom from
the nonphysical perspective known as Abraham, it is interesting that they
are regurgitating (and seemingly plagiarizing) the very old ideas of the New
Thought movement.  Also, when it was revealed that, contrary to Esther and
Jerry Hicks' claims, the "Law of Attraction" did not originate with them,
they migrated it to the clunkier term "Vortex of Attraction," which does.

(Original use of term:  "Thought Vibration, Or, The Law of Attraction in the
Thought World" by William Walker Atkinson, 1908.

Toronto Sethian

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SETH: "...The cults that have built up around such happenings are ludicrous and, in some cases, unforgivable demonstrations of stupidity by well-meaning but imbecilic personalities. I dislike being so harsh and vindictive. However, on a few occasions I have been involved, to my utter horror, on the other end of such performances. At a later date I will tell you about this. It is not important. But, it was distasteful...."  1964.01.29 (020: ES1)

"...At your level it is perfectly all right if you want to call those people nincompoops or asses. In those terms they deserve it..."  Deleted Session of 07\11/77.

"...And, I speak of both of you, not fools, and not ready to cast me in the guise of potbellied Cupid, Buddha, god, saint, or devil. Such people are difficult to find..."  1964.01.29 (020: ES1)

Offline Deb

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‘Abraham’ is a conscious fraud.  Let's look at the evidence in this sad affair.

I don't feel the need to add anything here, I have to agree with you. I did read the Abraham books when my friend told me about them, it was my first exposure to this type of belief system. But I could never call Esther "Abraham" when we'd talk about the concepts because I had that sense that she's an extremely smart women, with possibly a photographic memory, who had read all the Seth books. With Jerry's coaching and careful watch over her, she could regurgitate the wisdom... but was not the real deal. I tended to call her Abrahamster or Estherham, that always bothered my friend. "Why can't you call him Abraham?"

I've seen Esther live, on stage, and she does look different when she's talking for Abraham, in particular her eyes change color. So at times I would give her the benefit of the doubt that there might be something to her. Now that Jerry is dead, she tends to go out of control. Ego. I've seen her very rudely toss someone out of the "hot seat" because they wanted to talk about something she was not in the mood for--such as the death of a pet. "We are not talking about dead dogs today." I wonder how that felt for the person who paid to be there and was summarily dismissed. Esther needs to retire, I mean, how much money does she really need? She must have more money than god.

I'll come back again tomorrow and read your post again, I'm getting tired and hungry at this point, but I just had to jump in before I signed off. What I can say is that if it wasn't for Estherham and Jerry, I might not have come across the Seth books. Jerry is the one who piqued my interest in Seth, and I'm grateful for that. They were just one step on my journey to myself...
« Last Edit: March 19, 2015, 08:50:29 PM by DebT »

Offline Deb

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I read your post again, and agree. You know a lot more about AH than I do. I have a couple of friends that are into AH and I've tried to introduce them to Seth, but they have trouble understanding the books and Seth's way of speaking. I took to him like a duck to water, and I'm no genius. Although someone told me I was one today.  :)  A genius, not a duck, lol.

Abraham is the watered-down version of Seth's teachings, and I guess it serves the purpose of introducing people to the basic Seth concepts. Cliff Notes maybe, and presented in a simpler way. I'm curious how it's all going to end up for Esther.

Toronto Sethian

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"He who does not speak clearly does not see clearly" -- Seth.

(I agree with your comments, Deb. :)  )

Many try 'Abraham' or others because they offer easy answers and little work.  I, too, wish reality weren't so challenging but I see no value in pretending it isn't.  You can't solve real problems with fuzzy, half-answers that lack detail and direction and fail to address the nuances--like Seth does with regard to what you do when you have not been successful in creating/shifting something, eg.

As Seth said, any intelligent person CAN understand Seth if they wish to make the effort.  It is dense and is mind-boggling, often.

For those who are not quite ready for the Seth books, I suggest the Seth workbook, "You Create Your Own Reality" by Nancy Ashley.  It explains the core ideas in layperson terms and has many exercises she designed.  I recommend this book, also, strongly to Seth readers, as well as her other two (about to be reissued sometime in the near future):  "You Create Your Own Happiness" and "You Create Your Own Dreams".  Both are workbooks.  The latter is the only book available in the market that explores dreams from a sethian perspective.

Toronto Sethian

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Deb,

A year ago, I started using the term "Abrahamster", also!  I must have picked it up telepathically from you!!

Toronto Sethian

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'Abraham' -- half-wrong, again --

Re: the comment regarding the concept that an abandoned house deteriorates faster than an occupied house, even if the occupants are not doing anything to maintain it: "attention to something is maintenance of it." 

This is only half-true.

It works the other way, also, and Abrascam not knowing this says a LOT--

Occupants of a house can also cause it to break down far, far more quickly than usual because of their beliefs.  This house would be in worse shape than the unoccupied one.

Negative attention of the kind I refer to causes the breakdown.  The statement "attention to something is maintenance of it" is wrong.  It does not capture the full dynamics in play, the reality.  If you believe this statement of Abrahammie, you would not look for beliefs that were causing your house to have problem after problem, repair after repair.

Misleading.  As per usual with A's soggy, half-answers that mislead...


Offline Deb

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How do you know so much about A-H?

"attention to something is maintenance of it." 

You're right, of course, about the half truth with the abandoned house. I've seen it in action and leaves me shaking my head.

Do you want to know about the abandoned house example? A few years ago Estherham was in town and I went to see her (she usually comes here 2x a year). Someone in the hot seat was talking about "attention to things," and he used the example of the abandoned house to clarify what he was asking Esther. Ever since then, she's been using it herself. So now you know the rest of the story...  :)


Offline Pinky

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Toronto Sethian, I'm curious to know if you have any insights on some of the other channels, like Bashar and Wendy Kennedy.  Wondering what you think of these two.

BTW, I barely bother with Abraham.  The few times I listened on youtube, s/he never quite sat right with me.

Thanks so much for sharing.....

Toronto Sethian

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I think Wendy Kennedy is a subconscious fraud--good intents but terribly distorted material--full of aliens and star systems and the 9th dimension (Ooohh!)

I created another thread to discuss 'Bashar'.  He is pathetic.

Interesting about how Esther hears others speak and then takes it up and pretends it is original.  But that is her M.O.

Toronto Sethian

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This short video shows 'Abraham' incapable of accurately remembering something.


Offline Deb

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Veeeerrrrrryyyy interesting...! I've heard her tell this story as well, but the chicken's name was Henny Penny. Thank you for that, lol. Esther sure loves to talk.

Offline Pinky

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I'm a little bit crestfallen that the people I was getting inspiration from -- Bashar, Wendy Kennedy, John Cali -- might all be frauds.  Whew, don't know quite where to turn.  Starting the daily lessons from A Course in Miracles, without reading the text book (I think I have a solid enough grounding in Seth's teachings....

Thanks for your insights, Toronto Sethian.  Appreciate it.  Need to ponder and figure out what's what....

Offline SumariDeb

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Actually, I have found the Abraham Hicks information quite valuable in my reality. Seth will always be my first true love, but sometimes when I feel "stuck", I get a bit of clarity from Abraham.

Here's the thing: Does it really matter who or what Esther is? Does it matter, that Jerry died of cancer? Jane died quite slowly and badly, and she had a direct line to Seth. By digging up dirt on these people, are we shooting the messenger? Trust me, there are plenty of non-Sethians who think Jane and Rob were total frauds. I'm sure you could research thoroughly enough and find "proof" on that too. My method on any subject is that if I am embarking on something new (let's say, for example, an herb that will make me healthier), when I google it, I only read the pros in my results, not the cons.

If you find benefits and answers from the Abraham material, why not embrace it? If you've ever needed and answer, and a random person walked to you and gave it to you that same day and said the right words, it doesn't matter if that person is a saint or a sinner. We are all creating our own realities, and sometimes we find personal messages on billboards if we pay attention.

Yes, I considered over the years that the whole Abraham Hicks thing could be a sham. But I also appreciate the benefits that I have received from the information. It's definitely Seth-lite stuff, but while I might soar with brilliance on one subject, I can be a complete dunderhead on another. Listening to Abraham often helps me sort through these things.

Uncle Seth told us: "Do not place the words of gurus, ministers, priests, scientists, psychologists, friends -- or my words -- higher than the feeling of your own being. You can learn much from others, but the deepest knowledge must come from within yourself."

So if Abraham, Bashar, or any of the myriad entities out there gives you the warm fuzzies, listen on. If someone else says they are frauds and has proof, that's probably true in that person's reality. After all, which you, which world? (Which you, which Jane? Which you, which Esther?)


Debbie

Offline Deb

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So if Abraham, Bashar, or any of the myriad entities out there gives you the warm fuzzies, listen on. If someone else says they are frauds and has proof, that's probably true in that person's reality. After all, which you, which world? (Which you, which Jane? Which you, which Esther?)

Debbie, I like the way you think. A friend turned me on to A-H a few years ago and I went to a few of the workshops. It was a new concept for me, made more sense to me than anything I'd heard prior to that. But in hindsight, it was her knowledge of Seth materials that was reaching me. I enjoyed the workshops I went to, even volunteered at a couple of them. It was interesting to see her persona change when she switched over to Abraham. Even her eyes, the irises, would get very dark. Now if that's acting, I'll eat my hat, lol.

I'm also grateful to A-H for bringing me to Seth. I think it would have taken me much longer to get here on my own.

I started becoming disillusioned with Esther when I saw her toss a couple of people out of the hot seat because they asked a question she didn't like. So, if your energy is aligned with the moment enough to get yourself into that hot seat, what suddenly happened there? I suppose it can all be explained with the concepts of energy and alignment, etc. But all I could think of was this poor woman who paid a fortune to go on one of their Alaskan cruises, was fortunate to get picked out of the audience for the hot seat, and as soon as she brought up her dead dog (which she was obviously upset about) was told "we're not talking about dead dogs today, go away, it's okay, everything is okay, you need to go away now" by Esther, and on and on. Maybe I'm too empathetic, but that really turned me off. Anyway, nothing personal, just wanted to interject my perspective.

Esther appeals to a broad audience that, I think, are attracted to her softer, less complicated explanations of the concepts. She's not hurting anyone and doing a lot of people some good hopefully. It's amazing to me, always has been, how she and the entourage are constantly on the road, never seeming to get tired of always being on the go. She repeats a lot of venues over and over (such as she was, maybe still is, coming through Denver twice a year). I think I'd get bored and tired of that. She can't possibly be doing it for the money either.

My friend that introduced me to her still sends me Youtube videos and most of the time I listen to them. I've told him about Seth, but he's very simple about it: "Abraham said we are here to be happy, that's all I need to know." Then he promptly sent me some Youtubes of Esther talking about Seth, lol.

I wish I could be more like that, just grab the basic concept and run with it. He does seem to be a pretty happy-go-lucky guy. More power to him.


Offline SumariDeb

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That is interesting, Deb. I've never been to an Abraham workshop, so I'd never have seen that side of her. The joke is that my big issue was my relationship with money, and when our finances were in the toilet I always had a strong sense that once I could afford to attend and Abe meeting, I wouldn't need one.

I actually found Seth before Abraham. About eleven years ago, I was left emotionally confused and shattered when our home had been destroyed by a hurricane. (I took full credit for my part in this event.) My Seth books survived (most of my books didn't), but somehow Seth was too complicated for me at that point, and I felt I needed the simpler stuff to get myself back on my feet again. So I downshifted and read a lot of Wayne Dyer listened to Hayhouse Radio at work. I found the Abraham stuff there, and it was easy to digest. So yes I agree with you--Abraham has a broader appeal and a simpler message. It's a great introduction to the concepts of conscious creation.

I couldn't keep up the schedule that Esther keeps either. I'm sure she sees herself on a mission. She is doing a lot of good for a lot of people, though, who will probably never move beyond that level. Just like your friend, though, if they learn nothing more than to be happy, that's still a life well-lived. Face it--the majority of the world fusses and stresses, and think that happiness is something they can never really achieve.

I could almost be like your friend, just a happy-go-lucky gal who has found contentment with simply being happy, but my curiosity about the workings of the universe and all the deeper levels of consciousness, just gets the best of me.

Offline silverflow

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"Do not place the words of gurus, ministers, priests, scientists, psychologists, friends -- or my words -- higher than the feeling of your own being. You can learn much from others, but the deepest knowledge must come from within yourself."

"Attention to something is maintenance of it" - How do I know what reference the perceiver (the perceiver: including the individual speaking) is using?  Should I cry fraud if it is not the same reference I choose to use?

And since we are conscious beings creating a physical experience, in multiple probabilities, "which you, which world"?  Who decides what is fraud?  Certainly I do not decide for anyone but myself. 

I have enjoyed excerpts of Abraham and have gotten great benefit from it.  I have enjoyed excerpts of Seth and have received great benefit.  I have enjoyed excerpts from my pets and have gotten great lessons from them.  As well, from the homeless man pacing the sidewalk each day in front of my business.  And, from the salesman trying to sell me an advertising deal that is no deal.  So, is it that some individuals are fraud?  Or is it how they are perceived?  Which truth?  Which world?

That which does not apply to me, nor resonates with me, I simply discard.  I choose to not maintain something I do not want by giving it attention.


Peace
Follow Your Bliss

Offline SumariDeb

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I have enjoyed excerpts of Abraham and have gotten great benefit from it.  I have enjoyed excerpts of Seth and have received great benefit.  I have enjoyed excerpts from my pets and have gotten great lessons from them.  As well, from the homeless man pacing the sidewalk each day in front of my business.  And, from the salesman trying to sell me an advertising deal that is no deal.  So, is it that some individuals are fraud?  Or is it how they are perceived?  Which truth?  Which world?

That which does not apply to me, nor resonates with me, I simply discard.  I choose to not maintain something I do not want by giving it attention.

Perfectly stated, Silverflow! And sometimes I love the simplicity of Abraham's messages on taking care of things we don't like:

In a nutshell:
1. You see something you don't like, which makes you think of what you'd prefer.
2. The universe hears your message and starts working on it.
3. You "allow" it into your world, and it comes to you.

Offline silverflow

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SumariDeb,

*Like*

And I apologize for not stating previously:  I do agree with your statement too. 


:-)
Follow Your Bliss

Offline SumariDeb

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SumariDeb,

*Like*
And I apologize for not stating previously:  I do agree with your statement too. 
:-)

No apology necessary. And thanks for the heads-up on the closing of the Seth Forum. :-) I would not have found my way here.

John Sorensen

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I've read a couple of books that collect various teachings etc of Abraham, and listened to bunch of audios that were recoreded from their tours etc.

I have also read on various site criticism of Jerry and Esther Hicks, which to me said nothing about them of any real value, and everything about the need of people to be critical.

I don't care how much money they make or any of that, I found the books useful, and implemented some of their ideas around meeting people/my behavior and attitude which helped lead me to my current partner. So I am grateful for that.

But I do find a lot of the Abraham material very repetitive, and so don't really follow any of if these days. But one important lesson I learned from martial arts is seek simplicity and learn /master the basics of anything. And that means endless repetition, until you really get it. And then when you get it, you go and practice on your own.

You don't stop taking showers, or brushing your teeth, and you don't stop doing whatever works in life, unless you don't want things to work and would prefer to actively sabotage yourself and hold on to guilt, shame, pain, etc.


Offline Bumblebee

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I totally agree with you Sumarideb and Silverflow! :)

Who cares if it is a pink elephant that delivers the message you need to hear when you need to hear it! Although nobody's perfect, we are all unique and each of our vision when shared can broaden someone else's. Keep what makes you flourish, discard the rest; it just might be addressed to another to  make them grow.

Offline Jackaranda

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I never got into Abraham/Hicks. I listened to something on You Tube and read a bit and to me it just didn't seem authentic. I can't explain why, just a gut feeling I guess. I've never quite decided about Bashar, but I don't necessarily follow him.

I followed Marian apparitions back in the 90's and what I concluded, after several years and a lot of reading, research and actually attending a few apparitions, was that a few were authentic and the vast majority were copy cats, either trying to deceive people or trying to cash in for the $$ and fame. For now I'll stick with Seth and a few others I trust.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2015, 04:05:54 PM by Jackaranda »
Jack

Offline laurie_lynne

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I find it interesting that we tend to have such high expectations of these non-physical entities. Maybe their memories aren't always perfect. Maybe they mis-speak once in a while. Maybe they are grumpy and don't feel like talking about certain things sometimes.

We 3-D humans come in many varieties, with many strengths, learning styles, personalities, etc. So I expect that there are many different ways of effectively getting messages to all these kinds of people. Abraham-Hicks and Bashar obviously have many enthusiastic followers. I assume they are getting something of value out of the interactions. I don't really want to live in a world where we all drive the same type of car, eat at the same restaurant, and shop at the same lirgerie store.

Vive la différence!

-laurie lynne

 

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