The importance of history in Seth

[Sena]

In order to understand Seth's teaching on the Christ entity, it is useful to look at his description of historical events. Seth's account is completely different to the history imposed on us by the Christian church.

Seth states that he himself was a "Speaker", the Christ entity was one, and the Buddha was another:

"Using your historical reference, I returned at the time of the cavemen, operating as a Speaker. Now I have always been a Speaker, regardless of my physical occupation. I have been a spice merchant in Denmark, where I knew Ruburt and Joseph. In several lives I was black — once in what is now called Ethiopia, and once in Turkey. My lives as monks followed my experience as a pope, and in one of these, I was a victim of the Spanish Inquisition. My experience in female lives varied from that of a plain Dutch spinster to a courtesan at the time of the biblical David, to several existences as a humble mother with children." (from "Seth Speaks: The Eternal Validity of the Soul (A Seth Book)" by Jane Roberts)

"There have been less than thirty great Speakers. Give us time here. (Pause at 9:35. Jane's pace was quite slow.) The Christ entity was one. The Buddha was another. These Speakers are as active when they are nonphysical as when they are physical. The Christ entity had many reincarnations before the emergence of the Christ "personality" as known; as did the Buddha. The greatest Speakers do not only translate and communicate inner data, but also go much further into these inner realms of reality than others connected with your physical system. They add, then, to the basic inner data. The greatest Speakers have not needed the intensive training necessary for most. Their unique combination of characteristics has made this unnecessary." (from "Seth Speaks: The Eternal Validity of the Soul (A Seth Book)" by Jane Roberts)

From the Kindle edition: http://amzn.eu/dCpKgks

[jbseth]

Hi Sena,

I'd even go so far as to say that both Seth's account of history and the Christian Church's account of history, are both different than those of the historians.

I never recognized that before, Seth saying that he was always a Speaker, even when he was a humble mother with children. I wonder what kind of a Speaker he was, when he was a humble mother with children?

jbseth

[Sena]

I wonder what kind of a Speaker he was, when he was a humble mother with children?

jbseth,
In the next coming of Christ, she might be a humble mother with children.

[jbseth]

Hi Sena,

I really like that "out of the box" thinking.

Maybe she will be 

jbseth

[Deb]

I do find Seth's talk about historical events really interesting. His descriptions always feel more natural and believable, especially in comparison to the Bible. He seems so matter of fact. And I'm also fascinated with Speakers and will start a new topic devoted to Speakers at some point.

Why do you suppose throughout history we have needed Speakers? Is it because of our amnesia while here, to keep us on track? It seems we have access to "the truth" while in F2 during our sleep and while between incarnations, some lucky ones during waking hours. But the Speakers are dealing with our awake state existence on the Earth plane and I think during our sleep too. Does the information not eventually get coded into our ancestral memories?

In one of the books Rob asked Seth why hasn't this information always been available. Seth said it has always been taught, but it gets added to and distorted over time. I sure wish I could find that quote. It's going to continue to bug me until I find it. I've shared it here on SoS in the past.

[Sena]

Is it because of our amnesia while here, to keep us on track?

Deb,
Yes, it is because of our amnesia. The question "Why am I here?" must be occurring to every intelligent person, but most people repress it. The orthodox Christian religion gives a rubbish explanation which many people seem to accept. Seth emphasizes the divinity of every human being, and this is somewhat similar to Advaita Vedanta.
There is a debate going on in Sri Lanka about the Catholic Church and human rights:

http://www.adaderana.lk/news/50248/mangala-hits-out-at-cardinal-malcolm-ranjiths-comments-on-human-rights

The fact is that according to the Catholic Church, human beings have no rights at all. Only God has rights. As I understand Seth's teaching, every human being is divine, therefore he/she has rights (and responsibilities).

[Deb]

And many speculate he's next in line for the Papal tiara!

I can understand his 'reasoning' that if he meant everyone was fair and kind there would be no need for human rights protection [not "human rights" as he said in the quote], but with the way things are in the world that's not the case and not worthy a comment. He's also in favor of the death penalty. I wonder what his stance is on child abuse?

This quote from the article caught my eye: "Frederick Douglass said in the context of slavery in the southern United States: 'Between the Christianity of this land, and the Christianity of Christ, I recognize the widest possible difference.' "

It seems we have been given a lot of challenging and controversial issues to work out in this 'training system' we're in:

"...There are no forces outside of yourselves that in your terms cause you to do evil. Unfortunately, what you think of as good and evil reside within yourselves, and you cannot blame an evil force for the destruction that runs rampant across the earth. Again, in your terms, these are your problems, and no god or devil put them upon you, and there is no one to blame but yourselves. On the other hand, for the seasons and the idiot flower (looks at Joel H.), you have yourselves to thank. You are learning how to use the creative energy of which you are a part, and you are indeed quite isolated, so you cannot do much harm, in your terms. And so that the evil that you think you do is an illusion. And so that for the millions that you think you slay, you slay not one. And so that despite you and your concepts of value, creativity always emerges triumphant, and those that are killed in one war come back to fight against war the next time, and hopefully, you teach yourselves some lessons. And if you destroy your planet, you will have others to work with, and those that were destroyed are not destroyed. You are in a training system. The mistakes in the long run, and in your terms, will not count, but they are very real to you at this time."
—TECS4 ESP Class Session, May 25, 1971

The fact is that according to the Catholic Church, human beings have no rights at all. Only God has rights. As I understand Seth's teaching, every human being is divine, therefore he/she has rights (and responsibilities).

And yet the Church says we are made in the image and likeness of God! The widest possible difference...

Yes, we are all gods according to Seth, a part of ATI clothed in a human body for a while. Not "made in the image and likeness" -- we ARE gods in human flesh. But considering all of the problems with human rights (and not just humans) in the world, it could be the biggest lesson we are here to learn. And we've been working on this lesson for a long, long time. Too long.

[jbseth]

Hi All,

Deb, in Reply #4 you said:

"In one of the books Rob asked Seth why hasn't this information always been available. Seth said it has always been taught, but it gets added to and distorted over time. I sure wish I could find that quote.  "

I did a search for this quote but I didn't find it. However, I did find something that was similar in "Seth Speaks", Chapter 17, Session 569.  In this session, Seth says:   

"[...] The Egyptian religion was largely based upon the work of the Speakers, and great care was given to their training. The outward manifestations given to the masses of the people became so distorted, however, that the original unity of the religion finally decayed."



I also found the following quotes having to do with the purpose of the Speakers and the original source of the Speakers data.

In "Seth Speaks", Chapter 17, Session 570, Seth says:

"The purpose of the Speakers is to help you correlate and understand this multidimensional existence, and to bring as much as possible of it to your conscious attention. [...]"


In "Seth Speaks", Chapter 20, Session 578, Seth says:

"The original source of the Speaker data is the inner knowledge of the nature of reality that is within each individual. The Speakers are to keep the information alive in physical terms, to see that men do not bury it within and dam it up, to bring it — the information — to the attention of the conscious self."

jbseth

[Sena]

I wonder what his stance is on child abuse?

The Cardinal turns a blind eye to child abuse. "Hear no evil, see no evil etc."
The following report is actually about 2 cases, one a 22-year-old woman who committed suicide, and the other a teenage girl who was molested by a priest:

http://www.srilankaguardian.org/2014/04/suicide-of-young-girl-and-celibacy.html

This report is about the 22-year-old woman:

http://www.island.lk/index.php?page_cat=article-details&page=article-details&code_title=101957

[Deb]

I did a search for this quote but I didn't find it.

@jbseth, thank you so much for trying! I finally found it here. Considering my paraphrasing of it, it's no wonder it couldn't be found on the search engine. However, when I searched on it using language in the quote below, the search engine leaves out most of the quote anyway. It's actually a pretty interesting session as Seth talks about how not only religion but also science distort.

Rob: "I was just wondering why a body of knowledge like this couldn't have accumulated over the centuries, slowly."

Seth: "It has. But it has been taken into various doctrines and religions that have grown up about it until it is almost unrecognizable. Bits of it appear here and there, scattered, distorted and misleading. It comes naked and everyone must put clothing on it, which usually ends up as either nonsense or armored dogma."

The Early Sessions, Book 1, Session 34

The Cardinal turns a blind eye to child abuse.

He's not alone in the world. The Pennsylvania grand jury report uncovered what they called a "playbook for concealing the truth" used by officials to cover up decades of abuse by 300 priests. Things like using euphemisms for the assaults, never say 'rape'; say 'inappropriate contact' or 'boundary issues'; choose fellow clergy members, not unbiased professionals to ask inadequate questions and form credibility determinations; send a priest for evaluation at church-run psychiatric treatment centers, the diagnosis being based on his own self reports; to completely conceal any wrongdoing even if a priest is removed, don't say why, say he's on sick leave or suffering from nervous exhaustion or nothing at all. The list goes on. There's a link to the report in the article, but it's 1,356 pages long.

On top of all of this, I have to wonder what percentage of molestation victims ever even report it. And to think more than 300 predator priests abused more than 1,000 children in 6 out of the 8 diocese studied, in only ONE state of only ONE country!

[jbseth]

Hi Deb, Hi Sena,  Hi All,

Hey Deb, I think your example, in Reply #9 above, given below, is an excellent example of the importance of history in Seth.

Rob: "I was just wondering why a body of knowledge like this couldn't have accumulated over the centuries, slowly."

Seth: "It has. But it has been taken into various doctrines and religions that have grown up about it until it is almost unrecognizable. Bits of it appear here and there, scattered, distorted and misleading. It comes naked and everyone must put clothing on it, which usually ends up as either nonsense or armored dogma."

The Early Sessions, Book 1, Session 34


I often wonder what both Buddha and Jesus actually said and taught during their lives.

I also wonder how this would compare to the various forms of Buddhism and Christianity that are being taught today. Would either one of them recognize or agree with the "any" of the various forms of these two religions (Buddhism and Christianity) that are being taught today.

What do you think?

jbseth

[Deb]

I often wonder what both Buddha and Jesus actually said and taught during their lives.

Right? I think there's a seed of truth at the base of all myths and religious writings, but as Seth said, the original message becomes "almost unrecognizable." I don't know anything about Buddhism really, and probably for that reason I've assumed it was less distorted and not aimed at controlling people and producing riches than Christianity and other similar religions.

I love Seth's "It comes naked and everyone must put clothing on it" statement. I'm hoping what Seth teaches/taught manages to avoid such offensive distortion/clothing, and yet while I say that, I think about so many other new age "speakers" (not meaning they are truly Speakers in the Seth sense) that have read Seth, adopt the concepts and add their own twist to it. Usually for financial gain. Or attention.

For the most part, I think Seth has been very articulate and clear in his teachings and they don't really need to be interpreted like our laws or the Constitution. I think that's one reason that the more I read the Seth materials, the less interested I become in others who profess to be channelers. There is more Seth than I can probably read in the next decade, not to mention my going back, re-reading and getting more information than the first time through. I can't say there are any other books that I've read that I've really done that with with the same result.

[usmaak]

I'm hoping what Seth teaches/taught manages to avoid such offensive distortion/clothing, and yet while I say that, I think about so many other new age "speakers" (not meaning they are truly Speakers in the Seth sense) that have read Seth, adopt the concepts and add their own twist to it. Usually for financial gain. Or attention.

What do you all think of Lynda Madden Dahl?  I've read three of the four Living a Safe Universe books.  She's 101% Seth and am assuming that she makes money off of it.  Her books have helped me understand some of the more esoteric Seth ideas, and helped to bring together many of the concepts into a neat package.

[Sena]

What do you all think of Lynda Madden Dahl?  I've read three of the four Living a Safe Universe books.

usmaak,
Those books are very useful. Thinking to yourself "Living a safe universe" actually works.

[Sena]

I don't know anything about Buddhism really, and probably for that reason I've assumed it was less distorted and not aimed at controlling people and producing riches than Christianity and other similar religions.

Deb,
The original Buddhist writings seem to be much less corrupted than the Christian ones. There was no monolithic Buddhist "Church" corresponding to the Catholic one. There are varieties of Buddhism: Theravada, Mahayana, Tibetan (Tantric) etc. What is perhaps lacking in Buddhism is modern interpretation as we get in Seth.

[Sena]

The Pennsylvania grand jury report uncovered what they called a "playbook for concealing the truth" used by officials to cover up decades of abuse by 300 priests.

It is great that there is freedom of speech and a fairly independent judiciary in the States. It is likely that the wrong-doings of Catholic priests are being covered up in countries like Italy and Spain.

[Deb]

What do you all think of Lynda Madden Dahl?  I've read three of the four Living a Safe Universe books.  She's 101% Seth and am assuming that she makes money off of it.

I love Lynda, because she's 101% Seth but she's also a really nice person—and she is walking the talk. I have a couple of her books which I bought when I was first reading Seth and needed some layperson language until I got more used to Seth's style. What I really appreciated were her personal stories of how the Seth materials work in her own life. And while she's making some money off the book sales, I don't feel she's doing it for the money. She doesn't offer online readings or travel the world doing workshops and Hay House-like conferences (does she?) for exorbitant fees like some others out there. Rob waived his copy rights and allowed her to use Seth quotes for her first books, so he trusted her as well.

It is great that there is freedom of speech and a fairly independent judiciary in the States. It is likely that the wrong-doings of Catholic priests are being covered up in countries like Italy and Spain.

Yes, well, it has been covered up here for decades, maybe centuries, until the problem got so bad it couldn't be "tolerated" any more. I'm not sure what the last straw was, I haven't really delved that deeply into this issue. Even though I was raised a Catholic, my exposure was limited to church and catechism which were done at my public elementary school by visiting nuns and their helpers. So I was never aware of the problems until I started hearing rumors as a young adult (the old priest/alter boy stories). Hopefully something good will come of this worldwide and not just get covered up again. It will be interesting to see how or if pressure gets put on the entire Catholic church structure over this. Maybe the UN will do something.

[jbseth]

Hi All,

I can definitely see the wisdom in the Speakers continually appearing on Earth and sharing their messages.


Even though today we have Seth's written words that we can each read and interpret for ourselves, already I can see in this forum, many different personal interpretations of Seth's information.

Furthermore, even though Jane only passed away in 1984, there are already several people who have written about their personal experiences with Seth (Sue Watkins, Rich Kendall), or are giving Seth based seminars (Rick Stack) or are writing about their personal understanding of the Seth information (Lynda Dahl). And I suspect that these type of actions will all continue as we move into the future.


Furthermore, in addition to this, as we move into the future, our cultures will change and the words used in Seth's written information will begin to take on different meanings.

Some examples of what I'm referring to here is this.

In the 1700's when a man was said to be bald, it meant he had a head of white hair. Today it means he has no hair.

In the 1890's when a person was said to be gay, it meant that he was happy. In the 1990's it meant something significantly different; a sexual orientation or preference.

When the King James Bible was first written in English in the 1600's the writers used the English language of that time. Today, there are words and phrases in this version of the bible that make no sense to the modern reader because these words and phrases have long ago been phased out. (see https://ehrmanblog.org/problems-with-the-language-of-the-king-james-version/).  Some examples of this are the words: 1) almug, 2) habergeon, and 3) ligure.  Does anyone here know what these 3 English words actually mean?  I certainly don't.


Thus, I suspect, that over time, it may be "inevitable" that like it or not, clothes will be put upon Seth's "naked" words and at some point in the future, a new Speaker will come into that world to enlighten those people of that time.

jbseth

[usmaak]

In the 1700's when a man was said to be bald, it meant he had a head of white hair. Today it means he has no hair.

So I am bald, but if I wasn't bald, I'd be bald.  Good to know. lol