The "desire for death" according to Seth

[Sena]

Seth's teaching on death is unique when compared to so-called New Age Teachers:

"It is not understood that before life an individual decides to live. A
self is not simply the accidental personification of the body's biological
mechanism. Each person born desires to be born. He dies when that
desire no longer operates. No epidemic or illness or natural disaster — or
stray bullet from a murderer's gun — will kill a person who does not
want to die.
The desire for life has been most flaunted, yet human psychology has
seldom dealt with the quite active desire for death. In its natural form this
is not a morbid, frightened, neurotic, or cowardly attempt to escape life,
but a definite, positive, "healthy" acceleration of the desire for survival,
in which the individual strongly wants to leave physical life as once the
child wanted to leave the parent's home.
(11:44.) I am not speaking here of the desire for suicide, which
involves a definite killing of the body by self-deliberate means — often
of a violent nature. Ideally this desire for death, however, would simply
involve the slowing of the body's processes, the gradual disentanglement
of psyche from flesh; or in other instances, according to individual
characteristics, a sudden, natural stopping of the body's processes.
Left alone, the self and the body are so entwined that the separation
would be smooth. The body would automatically follow the wishes of the
inner self. In the case of suicide, for example, the self ig to some extent
acting out of context with the body, which still has its own will to live."
(SESSION 801, APRIL 18,1977, "The Individual and the Nature of Mass Events")

[jbseth]

Hi Sena,

Thanks for starting this interesting post.

Not only this but in Seth Speaks, Seth goes on and talks about what happens after death. In SS, Seth tells the story about how everybody has a very unique death experience, which seems very consistent with what the people who have NDE (Near Death Experiences) have to say.

In Seth Speaks, he tells us that once he was a guide for people who've recently died. Then in Seth Speaks, Ch 9, Session 536, he tells us about one specific time when he was a guide for an Arab who was put to death during the Crusades. This Arab believed that Moses was more powerful than Allah and so Seth played Moses and someone else played Allah. Then they each pretended to line up with great army's behind them for a great battle for this man's soul; only to then join together in the sky so as to demonstrate the concept that  All is One.

There are many people who have had NDE's who claim to see a "being of light". Some believe that this being is "Jesus" while others think that it's, "God" or someone else.  I've always wondered whether this "being of light" isn't necessarily Jesus or God but rather a guide, like Seth, who was there symbolically to represent some spiritual concept to the person having the NDE, kind of like what Seth did for this Arab.



SS, Ch 9, Session 536:

[...]

At one time — in your terms — I myself acted as such a guide; as in a sleep state Ruburt now follows the same road. The situation is rather tricky from the guide's viewpoint, for psychologically utmost discretion must be used. One man's Moses, as I discovered, may not be another man's Moses. I have served as a rather creditable Moses on several occasions — and once, though this is hard to believe, to an Arab.

(10:00.) The Arab was a very interesting character, by the way, and to illustrate some of the difficulties involved, I will tell you about him. He hated the Jews, but somehow he was obsessed with the idea that Moses was more powerful than Allah, and for years this was the secret sin upon his conscience. He spent some time in Constantinople at the time of the Crusades. He was captured, and ended up with a group of Turks, all to be executed by the Christians, in this case very horribly so. They forced his mouth open and stuffed it with burning coals, as a starter. He cried to Allah, and then in greater desperation to Moses, and as his consciousness left his body, Moses was there.

He believed in Moses more than he did Allah, and I did not know until the last moment which form I was to assume. He was a very likable chap, and under the circumstances I did not mind when he seemed to expect a battle for his soul. Moses and Allah were to fight for him. He could not rid himself of the idea of force, though he had died by force, and nothing could persuade him to accept any kind of peace or contentment, or any rest, until some kind of battle was wrought.

[... 1 paragraph ...]

I called upon Jehovah, but to no avail, because our Arab did not know of Jehovah — only of Moses — and it was in Moses he put his faith. Allah drew a cosmic sword and I set it afire so that he dropped it. It fell to the ground and set the land aflame. Our Arab cried out again. He saw leagues of followers behind Allah, and so leagues of followers appeared behind me. Our friend was convinced that one of the three of us must be destroyed, and he feared mightily that he would be the victim.



-jbseth

[Sena]

jbseth, thanks for your comments. This topic occurred to me reading the previous topic on "discipline". If we have the desire for death, we may sometimes need to discipline ourselves by resisting that desire.

I am sure Seth's teaching is not at all derived from Freud, and he made some negative comments about Freud. It may, however, be worth noting Freud's concept of the "death drive":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_drive

[Deb]

jbseth, thanks for your comments. This topic occurred to me reading the previous topic on "discipline". If we have the desire for death, we may sometimes need to discipline ourselves by resisting that desire.

I suppose though that since we pre-plan our death as well as our birth (with free will still in operation), that the desire for death could be a sign of our planned obsolescence. So a person would have to soul-search to determine whether to resist or go with it.

The wiki on Death Drive reminded me of this scene in Annie Hall (at the bottom). Probably not the same as death wish?

In re-reading Seth Speaks lately, I came across that whole Allah/Moses story again. The first time I read it, I just found it mildly interesting. But in hearing it this second time, I was really moved by it. I thought the "join together in the sky so as to demonstrate the concept that All is One" was brilliant.

There are many people who have had NDE's who claim to see a "being of light". Some believe that this being is "Jesus" while others think that it's, "God" or someone else.  I've always wondered whether this "being of light" isn't necessarily Jesus or God but rather a guide, like Seth, who was there symbolically to represent some spiritual concept to the person having the NDE, kind of like what Seth did for this Arab.

That makes a lot of sense to me, as Seth did say that there are guides (or family members) to meet us, and that for a while we take our beliefs with us, such a Christian would see Jesus or an angel. The guide would take whatever form is necessary to best ease a soul into the transition.

Now, my question is: People that have read and really believe the Seth materials—what do you suppose we would we "see" immediately after we die? It seems we wouldn't need much of a transition period.

[jbseth]

Hi All, Hi Deb, Hi Sena,

Then from a completely different standpoint, we can also talk about the "Death with Dignity" concept.
Here in Oregon, several years ago, we passed a law that allows people here to terminate their lives, if they so desire. This is different than suicide in that typically it involves people with conditions of, for example late stage cancer, where they no longer want to suffer.

I really loved that "Annie Hall" clip, Deb.  Wow, they all looked so young, 

Sena, it seems to me that generally speaking, Seth didn't think that much of Freud's, ideas.


-jbseth
 

[jbseth]

Now, my question is: People that have read and really believe the Seth materials—what do you suppose we would we "see" immediately after we die? It seems we wouldn't need much of a transition period.

My wife and I have a friend who was brought up Catholic, and she very much believes in and fears an after death experience of purgatory. I suspect that when she dies, she'll possibly experience such a self created purgatory type of after-death experience as Seth says that some people do.

I think that each Seth reader will have their own experience.

The thought just occurred to me that we probably "can" positively influence our own death experience, now, by imaginatively dwelling upon the type of death experience that we hope to have, before we die.

-jbseth

[Sena]

Now, my question is: People that have read and really believe the Seth materials—what do you suppose we would we "see" immediately after we die?

Deb, I personally expect to see the "life review" described by those who have had an NDE - My whole life flashing before me in a few minutes. I would also be very interested to find out who the other members of my Entity are.

[jbseth]

I would also be very interested to find out who the other members of my Entity are.
                     
Oh, that's a good one Sena,

-jbseth      
                  
                     
                     
                     
                        

[Sena]

My wife and I have a friend who was brought up Catholic, and she very much believes in and fears an after death experience of purgatory.

jbseth, I was also brought up a Catholic. The priests who indoctrinated me gave vivid descriptions of hell, but not much about purgatory. Monsignor Robert Hugh Benson - Channeled through Anthony Borgia - perhaps gives a description of purgatory:

http://www.thenewearth.org/LifeAfterDeath.html

"I supposed that our own religion was fully represented here. Indeed, it was! The same ceremonies, the same ritual, the same old beliefs, all are being carried on with the same misplaced zeal—in churches erected for the purpose. The members of these communities know that they have passed on, and they think that part of their heavenly reward is to continue with their man-made forms of worship. So they will continue until such time as a Spiritual awakening takes place. Pressure is never brought to bear upon these souls; their mental resurrection must come from within themselves. When it does come they will taste for the first time the real meaning of freedom."

[Sena]

The wiki on Death Drive reminded me of this scene in Annie Hall (at the bottom). Probably not the same as death wish?

Deb, thanks for this great clip. Woody Allen says, "I have to go now, Dwayne, because I am due back on Planet Earth!"
I think Death Drive is basically unconscious, whereas death wish is conscious.

[Deb]

Deb, I personally expect to see the "life review" described by those who have had an NDE - My whole life flashing before me in a few minutes. I would also be very interested to find out who the other members of my Entity are.

There is a lot of information about what can be expected in the after-death experience in Seth Speaks, Chapter 9, depending on the person and their beliefs.

Chapter 10, Session 540 deals with "After-Death Choices and the Mechanics of Transition" and says (in choosing what do to next):

"Before the time of choosing, however, there is a period of self-examination, and your full "history" becomes available to you. You understand the nature of the entity, and you are advised by other portions of that entity, more "advanced" than yourself.

You will become aware of your other reincarnational selves, for example. There will be emotional ties with other personalities whom you have known in past lives, and some of these may supersede your relationships in the immediately past life...."

Session 541 goes into the variety of next steps that can be taken, whether to choose to return here or other options. Really fascinating!

I'd love to meet my other "selves" too. I'd had some glimpses into what could be just a few of my other incarnational selves. I'm curious if my inklings are accurate.

Oh, and I was raised Catholic too, but all I remember about purgatory is that is where unbaptized babies that die end up. Trapped in limbo (I was told), with no way out. That was a great way get frightened parents to indoctrinate more members into the church, and in a hurry. Get them while they're young!

[jbseth]

Oh, and I was raised Catholic too, but all I remember about purgatory is that is where unbaptized babies that die end up. Trapped in limbo (I was told), with no way out. That was a great way get frightened parents to indoctrinate more members into the church, and in a hurry. Get them while they're young!

Hi Deb, Hi All,

Yeah I was surprised by that too. From what I understood, I would have thought that she would have been afraid of going to hell. However, she told me that people who commit certain types of sins will be sent to purgatory after death, to have their sins burned away.

She is very terrified of this because she was pretty sure that this is what's going to happen to her after she dies.

I always thought that purgatory was just a place where unbaptized babies went; where nothing great but nothing terrible happens. I'm not sure whether she has a good understanding of catholic concepts or is perhaps just misinformed. I don't know that much about this topic so I can't say one way or the other.

Given that I don't really believe that this really happens to anyone (except perhaps to those people like my friend, who really believes that this will happen) I think its extremely unethical for the Catholic Church to put such a fear into people. Especially, because I believe the main reason that they do this comes down to greed (if you keep the church filled with people,  then you can keep the church coffers full of money).

To me, that is an action that's worthy of being called a "sin".

-jbseth

[T.M.]

Hi All,

I've been reading the new earth, life after death link Sena posted. Thank you Sena!
It's very interesting, I'm still not all the way through it.

It reminds me in ways of this movie called Astral City. Written by medium Chico Xavier. I guess he was very celebrated in certain circles in his day. Something about this movie, or parts of it just feels right to me. Much as some of the info in the link Sena posted.       Turn on the English subtitles