Seth Session 753 (The Nature of the Psyche)

[Sena]

Thanks to T.M. For drawing my attention to Session 753:

https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?topic=2114.msg17091;topicseen#msg17091

This is a session which I have found difficult to understand. I recently got this book "Inner Paths to Outer Space: Journeys to Alien Worlds through Psychedelics & Other Spiritual Technologies
by Rick Strassman and others", which helps me to understand the Seth teachings.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2183203.Inner_Paths_to_Outer_Space

I shall post excerpts from the Seth session followed by relevant quotes from the Strassman book:

"The psyche, your psyche, can record and experience time backward, forward, dash — or sideways through systems of alternate presents (intently) — or it can maintain its own integrity in a no-time environment. The psyche is the creator of time complexes. Theoretically, the most fleeting moment of your day can be prolonged endlessly. This would not be a static elongation, however, but a vivid delving into that moment, from which all time as you think of it, past and future and all its probabilities, might emerge." (from "The Nature of the Psyche: Its Human Expression (A Seth Book)" by Jane Roberts, Robert F. Butts)

Kindle edition: https://amzn.eu/2cUwbiU

"By now it should be clear that psychedelics can produce an astounding variety of
experiences—from meetings with aliens and time travel to journeys into the spirit world and
mystical revelation. Yet is there an internally consistent explanation that can make sense of these
experiences? Interestingly, both mystical religions and modern quantum physics seem to agree
concerning the true nature of reality: time and space are just constructs of human consciousness
created by our minds. The reality we perceive as solid and independent doesn't really exist on its
own; it is simply a projection emanating from our minds. Some call it Maya, a dream, an illusion,
and others describe it as a full-immersion movie that's better than the one that could be experienced
on a holodeck in Star Trek." (Inner Paths to Outer Space)

"If time ran backward very slowly, and according to the conditions, you might not be aware of the difference, because it would take so much "time" to get from the present moment to the one "before" it that you might be struck, instead, simply with the feeling that something was familiar, as if it had happened before. In other lands of the psyche, however, even stranger events might occur. The watch itself might change shape, or turn heavy as a rock, or as light as a gas, so that you could not read the time at all. Or the hands might never move. Different portions of the psyche are familiar with all of these mentioned occurrences — because the psyche straddles any of the local laws that you recognize as "official," and has within itself the capacity to deal with an infinite number of reality-hyphen-experiences." (from "The Nature of the Psyche: Its Human Expression (A Seth Book)" by Jane Roberts, Robert F. Butts)

"Is it possible that we live in a dream world or, to use more modern terminology, in a very
sophisticated virtual-reality simulation? As Rick Strassman has hypothesized here, DMT may be
the molecule that is responsible for maintaining the illusion in which we live. Those who are
science-fiction fans won't be shocked by this supposition. Similar concepts have been explored
thoroughly in science-fiction novels and in movies such as The Matrix, Waking Life, and eXistenZ. Since we are the source of the dream, it appears so real and familiar to us that we cannot even tell
that it's just a dream." (Inner Paths to Outer Space)

"The psyche, however, while being earth-tuned in your experience, also has many other systems of reality "to contend with." Each psyche, then, contains within it the potentials, abilities, and powers that are possible, or capable of actualization under any conditions." (from "The Nature of the Psyche: Its Human Expression (A Seth Book)" by Jane Roberts, Robert F. Butts)

What Seth seems to be telling us is that "everyday reality" is only one kind of reality that the psyche experiences. There are other systems of reality which the psyche may be experiencing at the same time, but we are usually not conscious of those alternate realities. Seth does not tell us very clearly how to become conscious of those realities.

Psychedelic drugs seem to one method of becoming conscious of alternate realities. I have not tried these drugs, and I am NOT advising anyone to do so except under medical supervision.

"The Search for Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence (SETI) program has been
listening to the sky for more than forty years—a significant time period during which Earth's
population has doubled—and the heavens appear to be hopelessly silent. . . . Perhaps we have been
looking in the wrong places or in the wrong direction or using inappropriate methods. Perhaps,
instead of searching for aliens in the sky, we should look much closer—inside ourselves, in those
places from which we have been receiving messages of alien intelligence for millennia, though few
of us have ever paid attention." (Inner Paths to Outer Space)

[T.M.]

Hi All,

Hi Sena,

I truly wish I could take my consciousness mind there! So far I'm stuck in linear 3D

"The psyche, your psyche, can record and experience time backward, forward, dash — or sideways through systems of alternate presents"

[jbseth]

"Inner Paths to Outer Space: Journeys to Alien Worlds through Psychedelics & Other Spiritual Technologiesby Rick Strassman and others",

Hi Sena, Hi All,

This book looks really interesting. Thank you for sharing that information with us. 

This was a nice reminder that there are many different groups of people who seems to be saying that TATWTATB (Things Aren't The Way That They Appear To Be)


There are philosophers who tell us that TATWTTATB.

There are psychologists and psychiatrists who tell us that TATWTTATB.

There are psychics and mystics who tell us that TATWTTATB.

There are shamans and native religious leaders who tell us that TATWTTATB.

There are people who've had NDE's and OBE's who tell us that TATWTTATB.

There are people who are ghost hunters who tell us that TATWTTATB.

Then finally, along with all of these other groups of people, there are also the members of this group of people who've studied the affects of various types of drugs on people and these peoples inner journey's that occur as a result of these drugs. These people also tell us that TATWTTATB.


With all of these groups of people who seem to be telling us that TATWTATB, with all of this anecdotal information, why is it that we and so many other people seem to completely ignore this information and tend to believe that Things "Are" The Way That They Appear To Be? 


-jbseth

[Sena]

With all of these groups of people who seem to be telling us that TATWTATB, with all of this anecdotal information, why is it that we and so many other people seem to completely ignore this information and tend to believe that Things "Are" The Way That They Appear To Be? 

jbseth, I think I mentioned Gurdjieff and Ouspensky some time ago. Their view was that most human beings are "asleep" and want to remain that way. They don't want to have their beloved beliefs questioned.
Please read Session 753 and let us know what you think.

[jbseth]

"The psyche, your psyche, can record and experience time backward, forward, dash — or sideways through systems of alternate presents (intently) — or it can maintain its own integrity in a no-time environment. The psyche is the creator of time complexes. Theoretically, the most fleeting moment of your day can be prolonged endlessly. This would not be a static elongation, however, but a vivid delving into that moment, from which all time as you think of it, past and future and all its probabilities, might emerge." (from "The Nature of the Psyche: Its Human Expression (A Seth Book)" by Jane Roberts, Robert F. Butts)

Hi Sena, Hi All,

I just reread the first 3 sessions of NotP. These are session S252, S253 and S255 (S254 wasn't included in this book). In these sessions Seth says that the "Pysche" can't be defined. However, he does say that it can be described.

In S255, after their break, when they resumed at 10:05, Seth begins to describe the relationship that exists between Ruburt and Jane. He, more or less says that Ruburt is an extension of Janes psyche.  Then he talks about how Ruburt opened up a psychic door and this psychic extension allowed Seth to come through. Then Seth talks about Seth 2 and how this was also a psychic extension.

When Seth talks about the psyche, he seems to be talking about a psychological structure that is very much greater than that of our ego self. Instead it seems to be talking about a huge psychological structure, on the order of our entity or perhaps even something much greater than that.

Given this then, I have no doubt that this psyche can easily experience time backwards, forwards, sideways or even in "all time" and "no time" forms.

I think that this might be the reason and thinking behind the statement that Seth made above.


-jbseth

[leidl]

With all of these groups of people who seem to be telling us that TATWTATB, with all of this anecdotal information, why is it that we and so many other people seem to completely ignore this information and tend to believe that Things "Are" The Way That They Appear To Be?

Such a great question.  Hello all, and Sena, thanks for the original post.  Essentially we create external reality (what Seth calls "camouflage reality") with our beliefs, if my understanding is correct.  We create this reality for our own reasons, some of which are unique to us as individuals, and some of which are shared, creating mass reality and events.

"Since you all have a hand in forming this physical setting, and since you are ensconced yourself in a physical form, then using the physical senses you will only perceive this fantastic setting. The reality that exists both within it and beyond it will elude you."
—SS Chapter 4: Session 522, April 8, 1970

  At some point, though, some of us start to wake up.  We begin to see through this camouflage reality, and get glimmers that external reality is not what it seems!  The outer self with its limited understanding begins to align with the inner self, with its deeper understanding, and we begin to see that what we thought was reality is really just constructed by mind/beliefs--a dream.  We are beginning to become lucid in this dream reality.  That's probably why we're here...we're gently helping each other wake up in this group dream we're all in together. 

In the time of Covid, everyone keeps saying "we're all in this together."  And it is true!  But this thing that we're all in together is our whole dreamed-up reality--not just the pandemic.

If someone wants to tweak some part of my comment that I haven't expressed well, and in the process poke me with a sharp stick to help me wake up a little faster, please do.  :-)

[Sena]

"Since you all have a hand in forming this physical setting, and since you are ensconced yourself in a physical form, then using the physical senses you will only perceive this fantastic setting. The reality that exists both within it and beyond it will elude you."
—SS Chapter 4: Session 522, April 8, 1970

leidl, thanks for drawing our attention to Session 522. I need to read that again. Here is a quick quote from that session:

"When you think of reincarnation, you suppose a series of progressions. Instead the various lives grow out of what your inner self is. They are not thrust upon you by some outside agency. They are a material development, as your consciousness opens up and expresses itself in as many ways as possible. It is not restricted to one three-dimensional lifetime, nor is it restricted to three-dimensional existence alone." (from "Seth Speaks: The Eternal Validity of the Soul (A Seth Book)" by Jane Roberts)

https://amzn.eu/4SQ0iB2

[Sena]

I just reread the first 3 sessions of NotP. These are session S252, S253 and S255

jbseth, thanks for drawing our attention to those sessions. I think you mean 752, 753, and 755?

[jbseth]

jbseth, thanks for drawing our attention to those sessions. I think you mean 752, 753, and 755?

Hi Sena,

Yes, I did.   

-jbseth

[Sena]

Hi all,

Another extract from "Inner Paths to Outer Space".

The most significant psychedelic drug considered in this book is DMT (dimethyltryptamine). DMT is a substance found naturally in every human body (and brain), but usually in low concentration. It is speculated that when someone has a mystical experience or near-death experience, the concentration of DMT in the brain temporarily increases.

In Strassman's research, about 60 volunteers were injected with DMT. The experiences of the volunteers fell into three categories:

(1) Personal. These were psychologically oriented sessions in which volunteers dealt primarily with their own lives, histories, circumstances, and feelings, whether these were conscious or
unconscious.

(2) Transpersonal. These sessions went beyond the individual's historical life experience, but
continued to manifest within their own personal field of particulars: Though the state was novel in
intensity and quality, it still consisted of the familiar building blocks from the subject's previous
experience. Mystical and near-death experiences fall into this category.

(3) Invisible worlds. These comprised encounters with what seemed to be freestanding,
autonomous realities that coexisted with our reality. Sometimes such realms appeared inhabited by
alien beings that were more or less aware of the volunteers and were able to interact with them to
varying degrees.

[leidl]

(3) Invisible worlds. These comprised encounters with what seemed to be freestanding,
autonomous realities that coexisted with our reality.

Sena, your quote from Strassman seems a close parallel to this one from Seth:

"The camouflage is so craftily executed and created, of course, by the inner self, that you must of necessity focus your attention in the physical reality which has been created. The psychedelic drugs alter the neurological inner workings, and therefore can give some slight glimpses into other realities."
—TES9 Session 426 August 5, 1968

And this one...

"[...] Some of the effects of LSD7 and other artificial psychedelic drugs give you a hint of other probable directions your consciousness might have followed, or might still follow. [...]"
—UR1 Section 1: Session 687 March 4, 1974

The possibilities that psychedelics offer have always intrigued me.  Getting some glimpses of the "probable directions" of my consciousness is a real dangling carrot, but I feel like Seth sees some risk in them, despite the above quoted statements. 

I read Michael Pollan's book on the topic, How To Change Your Mind, but from your quotes here I think Strassman may have more insight.  Thanks for the excerpts!

[Sena]

Sena, your quote from Strassman seems a close parallel to this one from Seth:

"The camouflage is so craftily executed and created, of course, by the inner self, that you must of necessity focus your attention in the physical reality which has been created. The psychedelic drugs alter the neurological inner workings, and therefore can give some slight glimpses into other realities."
—TES9 Session 426 August 5, 1968

leidl, thanks for finding that Seth quote.
The Strassman book is very interesting but quite technical. He describes the background to psychedelic drug research. There was a lot of LSD use in the sixties and seventies, and some of the writings such as those of Timothy Leary were "over the top". There was a backlash against these drugs in the seventies, with the Vietnam war and all that, leading to a total ban.
Strassman had to work hard to get regulatory approval for his research on DMT.

The possibilities that psychedelics offer have always intrigued me.  Getting some glimpses of the "probable directions" of my consciousness is a real dangling carrot, but I feel like Seth sees some risk in them, despite the above quoted statements.

I personally will not try any psychedelic drugs, although if I was younger I might have been tempted to go on an ayahuasca expedition to the Amazon basin! (It is legal in countries like Brazil and Peru)

https://www.insidehook.com/article/action/ayahuasca-south-american-psychedelic

"Ayahuasca triggers primitive parts of the brain that uncover vivid emotional memories, an addiction researcher told The Guardian. But earlier this year, the first randomized, placebo-controlled clinical study of ayahuasca suggested that the drug could also be used to treat severe depression."

Here is a warning:

"At the end of August, The Guardian reported that a 19-year-old British backpacker died after taking a fatal dose of yagé and scopolamine in a ceremony in the Colombian jungle four years ago."

This is another Seth quote on drugs:

""Many have come to me, or written after "bad trips"; the young especially, always great searchers after truth, and very tempted to look to the chemical, LSD now,* as the latest method of finding it. I am not speaking of marijuana at all, which is a different thing altogether and is a natural product of the earth. I am talking about a chemical that is a result of your technological knowledge. When you are fairly happy and content in your daily life, you can be said to be in a state of grace. On those occasions when you feel at one with the universe, or come upon an exceptional experience in which you seem to go beyond yourself, you can be said to be in a state of illumination, and this has many degrees and levels. In any such state your physical health benefits, generally speaking, though there may be some beliefs blocking in that direction. (10:14.) These natural states activate within your cells "past" memory having to do with joyful cellular response, brought about by particular events in your lifetime whether you are aware of them or not." (from "The Nature of Personal Reality: Specific, Practical Techniques for Solving Everyday Problems and Enriching the Life You Know (A Seth Book)" by Jane Roberts)

https://amzn.eu/ci0OPKJ

Seth's statement on marijuana is interesting. Ayahuasca (a source of DMT) is just as much a natural product as marijuana.

[jbseth]

Hi All,

A couple of years ago I read a book by Dennis McKenna called, "The Brotherhood of the Screaming Abyss". It was about the author and is brother (Terry McKenna's) and their personal experiences in the world of taking various kinds of psychoactive drugs.  It was extremely interesting and really informative. They took all kinds of drugs including Ayahuasca and as I understand it Dennis became a PDH in ethnobiology or some related field.



In regards to Seth's statement about marijuana, I think that perhaps, he may have been addressing this comment mostly to the audience at the time.  At that time many young people were smoking marijuana, which I believe is relatively safe. But "Datura" is also a natural product of the earth and while it can be psychoactive, it is poisonous and can be fatal if taken internally. Thus, just because something is a natural product of the earth, this doesn't necessarily mean that it's safe to smoke or ingest.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datura



As I understand it, Ayahuasca is created by a process of mixing together parts of two or more separate plants. Once again, just because these plants are a natural product of the earth, this doesn't necessarily mean that they are necessarily safe when mixed together like this.  While Ayahuasca can be psychoactive, many people also report getting violently ill and vomiting or experiencing acute diarrhea when taking it. Then, after going through all of that, they may or may not experience any of the psychoactive affects.




Seth talked quite a bit about LSD in many of his books. I've always been intrigued by what he had to say about it. In some of his comments, he seems to imply that that there can be some major risks in taking large doses of it. This is part of the reason why he suggested people follow his teachings, which were much safer route to the explorations of inner reality.

https://findingseth.com/q/session:638+LSD/h/asc/

- jbseth

 

[Sena]

As I understand it, Ayahuasca is created by a process of mixing together parts of two or more separate plants. Once again, just because these plants are a natural product of the earth, this doesn't necessarily mean that they are necessarily safe when mixed together like this.  While Ayahuasca can be psychoactive, many people also report getting violently ill and vomiting or experiencing acute diarrhea when taking it. Then, after going through all of that, they may or may not experience any of the psychoactive affects.

jbseth, I am not encouraging anybody to try ayahuasca or any other drug. I am just interested in the findings of the brave people who have tried that or similar drugs.

[jbseth]

jbseth, I am not encouraging anybody to try ayahuasca or any other drug. I am just interested in the findings of the brave people who have tried that or similar drugs.

Hi Sena, Hi All,

I definitely didn't get the impression that you were.

Nor was I, for that matter trying to suggest or tell anyone here what they should or shoudn't do.

Like you, I'm only interested in the findings of the people who have tried the various drugs. For me personally, I haven't had very many personal experiences with many drugs. I have smoked marijuana, but that's about the extent of it for me.

I know that some people are very curiosity about personally having an actual experience with certain drugs. However, from what I've been told, from people I know who have tried various drugs, that can be a very dangerous game.  There are some drugs that are highly addictive and there are some drugs that are very bad for you.

There is also some drug based information, that never seems to get passed along very well.  For example, many people who talk about the ayahuasca experience speak about it from a mostly positive standpoint. They talk about the extremely interesting experiences that they've had with inner world's visitations.  It all seems really intriguing. However, they fail to mention that some of the participants become extremely ill after ingesting this liquid, suffering from severe bouts of vomiting and/or diarrhea, with no real psychoactive experience afterwards. As I recall Dennis McKenna, had one of these types of experiences with ayahuasca himself and he wrote about it.

I just thought that I'd mention this here because I don't know if everyone here is aware of this potential negative side effect of the ayahuasca experience.

- jbseth

[Sena]

I just thought that I'd mention this here because I don't know if everyone here is aware of this potential negative side effect of the ayahuasca experience.

jbseth, today I have been reading more about the ayahuasca scene in Brazil and Peru. It has apparently become quite a racket, with some fake shamans. Ayahuasca itself is rather risky because the dose of DMT in it is uncertain.

In the Strassman research, they used precise doses of pure DMT given intravenously. The subjects were always under medical supervision. The results were quite interesting.

[jbseth]

jbseth, today I have been reading more about the ayahuasca scene in Brazil and Peru. It has apparently become quite a racket, with some fake shamans. Ayahuasca itself is rather risky because the dose of DMT in it is uncertain.

Hi Sena, Hi All,

I do think that there may be quality control issues involved in the process of making ayahuasca. One batch may contain quite a bit, another batch, not so much.  Then along with this, there's also the risk of someone selling something, an ayahuasca experience, that's not really legitimate (the fake shaman issue you brought up).

Some years ago, I read Rick Strassman's book, "DMT, the Spirit Molecule", and so I'm a little familiar with some of his information.

https://www.amazon.com/DMT-Molecule-Revolutionary-Near-Death-Experiences/dp/0892819278/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=DMT&qid=1602191872&sr=8-4


I'm curious about what the authors of this book think about these inner realities. Specifically in regards to what Seth has to say about inner realities.

Do you think that these authors think that these inner realities are valid realities, or perhaps just the results of some chemical activity in the brain?  I do understand that you may not know the answer to this until you finish the book?


-jbseth

[Sena]

I'm curious about what the authors of this book think about these inner realities. Specifically in regards to what Seth has to say about inner realities.

Do you think that these authors think that these inner realities are valid realities, or perhaps just the results of some chemical activity in the brain?  I do understand that you may not know the answer to this until you finish the book?

jbseth, I did read Strassman's first book a few years ago. My understanding is that Strassman is a somewhat devout adherent of the Jewish religion, and he did NOT expect DMT to cause his subjects to contact other (alien) realities. When he realized this was happening, he got scared and stopped the research prematurely. He seems to have eventually come to terms with the discovery, and this is what led to the second book:

"Strassman suggests that DMT experiences may most closely resemble those found in the Hebrew Bible's model of prophecy:

The Hebrew Bible's model of prophecy is appealing because it comports well with the reports of the DMT volunteers. One's sense of self is maintained, there is an external free-standing independent-of-the-observer spiritual world. One relates to the content of the experience, rather than being dissolved into it.

However, some of Strassman's experimental participants note that other entities can subjectively resemble creatures more like insects and aliens than like anything in the Bible. As a result, Strassman wrote that these experiences among his experimental participants "also left me feeling confused and concerned about where the spirit molecule was leading us. It was at this point that I began to wonder if I was getting in over my head with this research." Strassman additionally hypothesizes that endogenous DMT experiences could be the cause of alien abduction experiences."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Strassman

This is what Strassman said in an interview:

"I decided to emphasize the spiritual nature of these states while at the same time positing a biological route to them, and an inextricably interwoven relationship between the spiritual and physical. Nevertheless, the spiritual literature and worldview seems, now, more applicable than a scientific one. Shamanism is useful as a model since it takes into account the external, free-standing nature of the phenomena, but like Buddhism, isn't really in our blood."

https://boingboing.net/2011/05/03/strassman.html

[jbseth]

Hi Sena, Hi All,

Thank you very much for your informative reply and also for the 2 links that you attached as well.  

Wow. I was really thrown off by Rick Strassmans comment regarding the "Hebrew Bible's model of Prophecy", and that this was a good model for these types of experiences.  I think that perhaps the "Hebrew Bible's model of mankind's existence (post Garden of Eden)" would have been an OK model, but the word "Prophecy" really through me off.



Basically what he says here is that in this DMT experience, one's sense of self is maintained and there's a spiritual world that appears to be external to you.

I understand why he thought that the Zen Buddhist model of a unitive experience with everything dissolving into oneness wasn't a good model to describe this DMT experience. That doesn't appear to be what's happening in these peoples DMT experiences. However, I don't understand what his issues with the shamanistic model or his comment that shamanism, like Buddhism, "isn't really in our blood". I think that perhaps, it just isn't really in "his" blood.




Furthermore, given that:

"some of Strassman's experimental participants note that other entities can subjectively resemble creatures more like insects and aliens...",

I think that the Shamanistic model seems to fit much better than his Hebrew Bible Prophecy Model.




I was however pleasantly surprised to find that he made the following comment:

"Nevertheless, the spiritual literature and worldview seems, now, more applicable than a scientific one. "



- jbseth

 

[Sena]

Wow. I was really thrown off by Rick Strassmans comment regarding the "Hebrew Bible's model of Prophecy", and that this was a good model for these types of experiences.  I think that perhaps the "Hebrew Bible's model of mankind's existence (post Garden of Eden)" would have been an OK model, but the word "Prophecy" really through me off.

jbseth, like you, I reject the Hebrew Bible model. I just wanted to indicate where Strassman is coming from.

However, I don't understand what his issues with the shamanistic model or his comment that shamanism, like Buddhism, "isn't really in our blood". I think that perhaps, it just isn't really in "his" blood.

The shamanistic model, as I understand it, is the view of native shamans living in the Amazon basin. They believe that ayahuasca takes them into "alternate realities", not just hallucinations. This is somewhat consistent with the Seth view. Strassman seems to have had difficulty accepting the shamanistic model, at least in the early years of his research.