The Inner Ego

[Tob]

Through reading TES1 and the part of TES2 that I've made it through, I've noticed that Seth spends a lot of time discussing how various people in Jane and Rob's story were working out issues from a previous life in their current life.  Seth talks a lot about how there is no time, yet will readily fall back on it when he needs to.

This is not clear to me either. Occasionally, it looks that he seemed to 'admit' that there is an aspect of time passing at his environment as well, in particular when and as long he was communicating with Jane. In any case he did clearly state that he does not know everything. According to him the universe (the camouflage reality plane we are on) has been created by the entities together. At least by all of those entities, who were, are, or will be in the process of sending personalities (fragments) into a specific 3D life in 'our' reality. Even the future one's (entities) 'have been' involved in the 'creation' of our universe.

In UR 1 or 2 he is comparing the reincarnations with islands, at first discovering the existence of other islands looking entirely different, then weighing the pros and cons of the respective other styles of 'existence' (living) prevailing on the other islands, to finally reach a stage of systematic cross-fertilisation.

In concrete terms, he is then describing the life of a man who is married but who has a girlfriend, and this kind of social construct causes him problems. In another life he is a soccer player, successful, not knowing anything of the problems of the first one. At the moment the soccer player is in a match and it looks that his team is going to lose. But suddenly he is getting a chance to turn around the game. And while he is thinking "I will use this chance no matter what, I will not give up...we will not lose this game...' the man with the wife and the girlfriend in another reality is becoming optimistic again, thinking that in the end it may be possible to develop a good solution to his complicated situation. Similar to the islands: cross-fertilisation (ideas and motivation) across universes.

Session 88: ..."At the bottom so to speak, will be found a layer of the subconscious dealing with racial heritage, concerning the dim first materialization of man; and beneath this a heritage dealing with a comprehension of reality as concerned in physical matter before the physical evolution of man, following backward to that first inner self within its mental enclosure, that was adept enough to translate and transform its psychic energy to form the first, most minute physical materialization, from which all other physical constructions then flowed. These sessions come from, or are received through, what we may call, since we are using terms of succession, from the third undifferentiated level, beneath the limitations of Ruburt's personal subconsciousness. Without his blocking therefore, he would have access to the previous three lives that he has lived, and in detail. And since his abilities are strong, he would also have access to your previous three lives, since he picks up much information from you telepathically.
...
These so-called layers of the subconscious, however, are not really layers at all, but part of the spacious present. Actually, all of these previous lives, and the present life, happen simultaneously, but this idea cannot be comprehended on a conscious level." (Seth)

The 'mental enclosure' is the key mechanism for the constant expansion and contraction of 'reality' (the pulsing).

[Sena]

Session 88: ..."At the bottom so to speak, will be found a layer of the subconscious dealing with racial heritage, concerning the dim first materialization of man; and beneath this a heritage dealing with a comprehension of reality as concerned in physical matter before the physical evolution of man, following backward to that first inner self within its mental enclosure, that was adept enough to translate and transform its psychic energy to form the first, most minute physical materialization, from which all other physical constructions then flowed. These sessions come from, or are received through, what we may call, since we are using terms of succession, from the third undifferentiated level, beneath the limitations of Ruburt's personal subconsciousness. Without his blocking therefore, he would have access to the previous three lives that he has lived, and in detail. And since his abilities are strong, he would also have access to your previous three lives, since he picks up much information from you telepathically.

Tob, thanks for drawing our attention to Session 88. Seth's use of the word "previous" indicates that for him the concept of "past" is significant. "Simultaneous time" does not seem to apply here.

Another quote from that session:

"What psychologists speak of as association is definitely an important psychological characteristic. What psychologists do not understand, however, is that in deep levels of subconscious activity associations may spring from the inner self's latent knowledge and experience of past lives. There are of course peculiar sets of associations that have been collected in this existence only, but even among associations that seem to be from this existence there are those associations, usually key associations, from previous existences which merge with those of the present." (from "The Early Sessions: Book 3 of The Seth Material" by Jane Roberts, Robert Butts)

Kindle edition: https://amzn.eu/fzJLAkn

[Tob]

Session 88: ..."At the bottom so to speak, will be found a layer of the subconscious dealing with racial heritage, concerning the dim first materialization of man; and beneath this a heritage dealing with a comprehension of reality as concerned in physical matter before the physical evolution of man, following backward to that first inner self within its mental enclosure, that was adept enough to translate and transform its psychic energy to form the first, most minute physical materialization, from which all other physical constructions then flowed. These sessions come from, or are received through, what we may call, since we are using terms of succession, from the third undifferentiated level, beneath the limitations of Ruburt's personal subconsciousness. Without his blocking therefore, he would have access to the previous three lives that he has lived, and in detail. And since his abilities are strong, he would also have access to your previous three lives, since he picks up much information from you telepathically.

Tob, thanks for drawing our attention to Session 88. Seth's use of the word "previous" indicates that for him the concept of "past" is significant. "Simultaneous time" does not seem to apply here.

Another quote from that session:

"What psychologists speak of as association is definitely an important psychological characteristic. What psychologists do not understand, however, is that in deep levels of subconscious activity associations may spring from the inner self's latent knowledge and experience of past lives. There are of course peculiar sets of associations that have been collected in this existence only, but even among associations that seem to be from this existence there are those associations, usually key associations, from previous existences which merge with those of the present." (from "The Early Sessions: Book 3 of The Seth Material" by Jane Roberts, Robert Butts)

Kindle edition: https://amzn.eu/fzJLAkn

In 'Adventures in Consciousness' Jane Roberts did mention a key event where people from Roman times did physically materialize in their appartment through and outside (materialisation) of the persons present in the rooms, including the guests, (pp 50-59). Jane, Robert and even some of the guests did take on traits of their former selves and did actively revive some of their old conflicts. This seemed to have been even the case with Robert Butts the evening before this session. Obviously unknowingly. He was displaying an entirely different behaviour.

The time issue is more complicated. According to Seth 'Reincarnation does and doesn't exist' (UR)

[Sena]

The 'mental enclosure' is the key mechanism for the constant expansion and contraction of 'reality' (the pulsing).

Tob, by "pulsing", do you mean the phenomenon of physical reality flickering on and off? Seth refers to this in Session 8:

"None of that is the intellect's concern at an intellectual level. At a biological level, and at an electromagnetic level, the intellect, of course, performs feats that it cannot consciously know through the use of its reason (all intently). Spontaneously, with the process just mentioned, millions of pictures are being taken also of the probable actions that will — or may — be needed, in your terms, in the moment immediately following, from microscopic action to the motion of a muscle, the driving of a car, the reading of a book, or whatever." (from "The Magical Approach: Seth Speaks About the Art of Creative Living (A Seth Book)" by Jane Roberts, Robert F. Butts)

https://amzn.eu/hR8UORo

[Tob]

The 'mental enclosure' is the key mechanism for the constant expansion and contraction of 'reality' (the pulsing).

Tob, by "pulsing", do you mean the phenomenon of physical reality flickering on and off? Seth refers to this in Session 8:

"None of that is the intellect's concern at an intellectual level. At a biological level, and at an electromagnetic level, the intellect, of course, performs feats that it cannot consciously know through the use of its reason (all intently). Spontaneously, with the process just mentioned, millions of pictures are being taken also of the probable actions that will — or may — be needed, in your terms, in the moment immediately following, from microscopic action to the motion of a muscle, the driving of a car, the reading of a book, or whatever." (from "The Magical Approach: Seth Speaks About the Art of Creative Living (A Seth Book)" by Jane Roberts, Robert F. Butts)

https://amzn.eu/hR8UORo

Yes, I think so. That's where Seth, Campbell and Bashar concur and where the three approaches could or should be brought together. Bashar is still constantly using the term 'shifting'. There is no 'shifting' in the sense of a movement sideways. It is a constant new creation. And depending on the specific vibration of your belief systems you 'get' another universe. The belief systems are instrumental (Seth, Bashar) and the synapses make the choice (Seth in NoPR). They know more than the brain (Seth). It looks that the 'capsule comprehension' (Seth) is a circumscription of the holographic principle. 'Indra's net' for those who are more into Eastern mythologies.

[LarryH]

Tob, thanks for drawing our attention to Session 88. Seth's use of the word "previous" indicates that for him the concept of "past" is significant. "Simultaneous time" does not seem to apply here.

Seth often says, "in your terms," though in this case, he did not. However, he did say, "we are using terms of succession", which clarifies his use of "past". And since he was referring to Rob's and Jane's other lives, all of which were in our "past", I think it is just a simple way for him to refer to them that we can relate to. It does not mean that simultaneous time does not apply to those past lives - in fact, Seth talks about how we can influence our "past" lives, just as they can influence our current life.

[Tob]

Tob, thanks for drawing our attention to Session 88. Seth's use of the word "previous" indicates that for him the concept of "past" is significant. "Simultaneous time" does not seem to apply here.

Seth often says, "in your terms," though in this case, he did not. However, he did say, "we are using terms of succession", which clarifies his use of "past". And since he was referring to Rob's and Jane's other lives, all of which were in our "past", I think it is just a simple way for him to refer to them that we can relate to. It does not mean that simultaneous time does not apply to those past lives - in fact, Seth talks about how we can influence our "past" lives, just as they can influence our current life.

'These so-called layers of the subconscious, however, are not really layers at all, but part of the spacious present. Actually, all of these previous lives, and the present life, happen simultaneously, but this idea cannot be comprehended on a conscious level." (Seth)

This is what Seth says two lines further below (after the break).
'
Meanwhile I managed to read TES1 and TES2. It looks that Seth is struggling in getting his concepts through to the 'mind and the physical apparatus' of Jane. He made it clear that he cannot explain the issues properly as our language requires following a linear logic which does not correspond to the conditions of the inner reality. 'Time', 'cause and effect', and - I assume, 'reincarnation' are similarly distorted ideas.

The first session in TES3 - crucial as this should have been the one where he had planned to begin with the 'mental enclosure' was the first one where he did not manage to get his information conveyed. Jane Roberts was severely distracted by the noise from outside. Some of the sentences make no sense at all.

In TES 1, TES 2, possibly TES 3 Seth is meticulously describing (the skeleton of) the physics of his cosmology. It looks that this has not been understood so far.

'Centuries before the beginning of what seems to have begun (Seth, last sentence NoPR)'

[Sena]

Meanwhile I managed to read TES1 and TES2. It looks that Seth is struggling in getting his concepts through to the 'mind and the physical apparatus' of Jane. He made it clear that he cannot explain the issues properly as our language requires following a linear logic which does not correspond to the conditions of the inner reality. 'Time', 'cause and effect', and - I assume, 'reincarnation' are similarly distorted ideas.

Tob, reincarnation is something for which there is solid scientific evidence in the work of Ian Stevenson, and in the cases described by Stevenson it does not make sense to say that past and present are simultaneous.

It is true that Seth's view of reincarnation is complex and subtle, as is evident in this quote from Chapter 7 of "Seth Speaks":

"You are presently focused not only in your physical body, but within a particular frequency of events that you interpret as time. Other historical periods exist simultaneously, in forms quite as valid; and other reincarnational selves. Again, you simply are not tuned to those frequencies. You can know what happened in the past and have histories, because according to the rules of the game that you accepted, you believe that the past, but not the future, can be perceived. You could have histories of the future in the present, if the rules of the game were different. Do you follow me? ("Yes.") (Long pause at 11:11.) In other levels of reality, the rules of the game change. After death in your terms, you are quite free perceptively. The future appears as clearly as the past. Even this is highly complicated, however, for there is not just one past. You accept as real only certain classifications of events and ignore others. We have mentioned events. There are also probable pasts therefore, that exist quite outside your comprehension. You choose one particular group of these, and latch upon this group of events as the only ones possible, not realizing that you have selected from an infinite variety of past events. There are then, obviously, probable futures and probable presents." (from "Seth Speaks: The Eternal Validity of the Soul (A Seth Book)" by Jane Roberts)

https://amzn.eu/g6if4mp

Ian Stevenson focused on the "conventional" model of reincarnation so that his reports would not be confusing. If any of his subjects had started talking about probable pasts or probable futures, those ideas would have been rejected as "rubbish".

[Tob]

Meanwhile I managed to read TES1 and TES2. It looks that Seth is struggling in getting his concepts through to the 'mind and the physical apparatus' of Jane. He made it clear that he cannot explain the issues properly as our language requires following a linear logic which does not correspond to the conditions of the inner reality. 'Time', 'cause and effect', and - I assume, 'reincarnation' are similarly distorted ideas.

Tob, reincarnation is something for which there is solid scientific evidence in the work of Ian Stevenson, and in the cases described by Stevenson it does not make sense to say that past and present are simultaneous.

It is true that Seth's view of reincarnation is complex and subtle, as is evident in this quote from Chapter 7 of "Seth Speaks":

"You are presently focused not only in your physical body, but within a particular frequency of events that you interpret as time. Other historical periods exist simultaneously, in forms quite as valid; and other reincarnational selves. Again, you simply are not tuned to those frequencies. You can know what happened in the past and have histories, because according to the rules of the game that you accepted, you believe that the past, but not the future, can be perceived. You could have histories of the future in the present, if the rules of the game were different. Do you follow me? ("Yes.") (Long pause at 11:11.) In other levels of reality, the rules of the game change. After death in your terms, you are quite free perceptively. The future appears as clearly as the past. Even this is highly complicated, however, for there is not just one past. You accept as real only certain classifications of events and ignore others. We have mentioned events. There are also probable pasts therefore, that exist quite outside your comprehension. You choose one particular group of these, and latch upon this group of events as the only ones possible, not realizing that you have selected from an infinite variety of past events. There are then, obviously, probable futures and probable presents." (from "Seth Speaks: The Eternal Validity of the Soul (A Seth Book)" by Jane Roberts)

https://amzn.eu/g6if4mp

I am afraid that not many people here on this forum are prepared to follow you that far. Seth is actually more radical (in the sense of explaining the roots) than Bashar. Changing the past retroactively is possible 'physically' (both, Seth and Bashar), but such a concept is too 'outlandish' for many here. (According to Seth the memory of cells must be changed. This can be done by changing belief systems. Then you get 'access' to a future which comes with a different past, etc.)

I did produce some graphics to exemplify what I think what is meant by probable pasts and probable futures. I already posted it here two years ago. If I find the material I can repost it.

For Bashar, the universe is individualized. Everybody is in his/her own universe which is constantly recreated. Billions of time per second. The universes are thus created and they instantly collapse again, just to be recreated anew. In between the universes collapse to a 'zero point' at which connections are made to all the other incarnations. Moment for moment for moment. ('Nine levels of consciousness-session)

For Seth the universe is individualized. The universes created by a bug in Jane Roberts apartment look different from the universe created by Jane, Robert or the cat Willy. In the universe of the bug (constantly renewed as well), the cat Willy consists basically of a huge mouth with a few hairs around. For the cat Willy the bug (created and recreated by him) lives longer than the 'same' bug in Janes apartment as created by Jane. And the bug is larger, hence tastier and presumably more luring (TES2).

For Seth, matter is blinking, flickering (in Jane's language which had to be acquired by reading books about astrophysics in parallel to get familiar with the proper terminology to deal with something which is completely new). It looks that this reproduction process takes place 'somewhere' in connection with an 'instrument' called and described by him as 'mental enclosure' (sessions 87 and 88, TES 3).

For Tom Campbell reality is virtual. It is being constantly reproduced at the rate of Planck time. We are avatars in a 3d 'reality' projected by our consciousness.

The reproduction rate for Bashar is Planck time, as well. For Seth it is 'fifty-fifty' or something. Not really clear, but in any case fast enough not to realize the pauses in between and to get an impression of continuity like in a film. (By the way it is only 24 frames per second in a film, not billions or trillions).

For Bashar you can plug into any life lived by any other consciousness, even if it is or was not 'yours'. This is why 50 000 people can claim to have been Cleopatra in a former life. According to Robert Butts (Seth), after his death his father seemed to have taken the decision to 'dissipate' and merge with all the individualized consciousnesses which are around to partake in their specific experiences (UR).

Thus it looks that we do not yet fully understand all the options and possibilities 'at hand'.

To me, the Seth materials are like a handbook, systematically conceptualized, beginning with a 'skeleton' (Seth) which is to be enriched therafter, as the occasion to do so arises (absence of distortions, for example) (Seth).

But the materials should be understood in their inherent logic. Cherry picking is not sufficient.

There is nothing metaphorical in his books. Every single word, every single sentence is meant to be understood literally.

He wants the books to be understood by readers, not be dreamers. He is very clear on that.

[Kyle]

There is nothing metaphorical in his books. Every single word, every single sentence is meant to be understood literally.

Tob, maybe you mean something different by "metaphorical" than I do, but here's one example among many of Seth's use of metaphors. In The Unknown Reality Vol 1, p. 67:

"Now because of the selectivity mentioned earlier, certain directions may be easier than others, and some may appear impossible. Yet within the psychological and biological structure of your species, the roads of probabilities have more intersections than you know."

Obviously, probabilities do not have "roads" in the literal sense, nor directions, nor intersections, in any physical sense. Within Seth's very different framework for knowledge and perception, there is no other way than metaphorical usage of words to communicate to us physical creatures. When a physical term is used to represent a non-physical phenomenon, that is a metaphor. Seth does use the word "literal" sometimes, as in "the world literally blinks on and off." I have to take him at his word for that. But otherwise, there are many metaphors that Seth relies on to communicate.

[Tob]

There is nothing metaphorical in his books. Every single word, every single sentence is meant to be understood literally.

Tob, maybe you mean something different by "metaphorical" than I do, but here's one example among many of Seth's use of metaphors. In The Unknown Reality Vol 1, p. 67:

"Now because of the selectivity mentioned earlier, certain directions may be easier than others, and some may appear impossible. Yet within the psychological and biological structure of your species, the roads of probabilities have more intersections than you know."

Obviously, probabilities do not have "roads" in the literal sense, nor directions, nor intersections, in any physical sense. Within Seth's very different framework for knowledge and perception, there is no other way than metaphorical usage of words to communicate to us physical creatures. When a physical term is used to represent a non-physical phenomenon, that is a metaphor. Seth does use the word "literal" sometimes, as in "the world literally blinks on and off." I have to take him at his word for that. But otherwise, there are many metaphors that Seth relies on to communicate.

Yes, you are of course right. I should have written 'as literal' as possible. What I had in mind was to stress the outstanding character of the information given. One should deal with it as precisely as possible. Along and in line with the 'skeleton' (Seth) which is underpinning his books. Even if that implies that some of the content is not easy or nearly impossible to understand. Thanks.