Beliefs determine effectiveness of medical procedures

[Deb]

"It should be remembered that it is the beliefs and feelings of the patients that largely determine the effectiveness of any medical procedures, techniques, or medications."
—WTH Part Two: Chapter 11: June 14, 1984

I just saw a new article today on one of my favorite topics, the placebo effect. I consider it F1 proof of the power of the mind/thought/belief and also backs up what Seth said so many times... what we believe and expect is what we get.

I found the article interesting and clear, but find these two quotes disturbing:

1. "But studies have shown that the placebo effect is so strong that many drugs don't provide more relief than placebo treatments. In those instances, drug developers and researchers sometimes see placebo effects as a nuisance that masks the treatment benefits of the manufactured drug. That sets up an incentive for drug manufacturers to try to do away with placebos so that drugs pass the FDA tests.

"Placebos are such a problem for the enterprise of drug development that a company has developed a coaching script to discourage patients who received placebos from reporting benefits."

Hmmm? Is that ethical? Wow.

2. "And in routine medical practice, they're rarely used on purpose."

Huh, only rarely, not never? When is it ok to administer a placebo without a patient's knowledge or consent? Seems like an invitation to abuse and ethics violation.

And yes, I realize that while these "sugar pills" can solve some medical issues, problems will continue to crop up until the underlying belief causing the health issues is not resolved.

Anyway, I thought the article was not only informative, but encouraging on how doctors could use the placebo in a beneficial way for patients:

"By defining a placebo as the act of setting positive expectations and providing hope through psychosocial interactions, it becomes clear that placebos can enhance traditional medical treatments."

[LarryH]

FDA approved placebos for prescription use in 2003:
https://www.thepharmaletter.com/article/fda-approves-placebo

My understanding from having worked with former employees of pharma that new drugs are routinely tested against placebos and must be shown to be more effective than placebos in order to get approval from FDA. The tests are double-blind, that is, the patient and the provider do not know who is getting the placebo and who is getting the drug, so in these tests, there can be no manipulation of the patient's impressions for or against the drug or placebo.

Placebos can be highly effective, even if the patient knows they are getting a placebo. The doctor might say, "I'm prescribing this pill. It has no active ingredient. However, many people say that it helps with your symptoms." Then, the patient is often so satisfied that she requests a refill. 

[Sena]

I just saw a new article today on one of my favorite topics, the placebo effect. I consider it F1 proof of the power of the mind/thought/belief and also backs up what Seth said so many times... what we believe and expect is what we get.

Deb, thanks for the very interesting article. That article refers to a website dealing specifically with the placebo effect:

http://programinplacebostudies.org/recent-news/

[Deb]

The tests are double-blind, that is, the patient and the provider do not know who is getting the placebo and who is getting the drug, so in these tests, there can be no manipulation of the patient's impressions for or against the drug or placebo.

I understand double-blind studies, I think they're the way to go. But I would think the volunteer would be informed beforehand that they could be getting a placebo, is that not the case?

[Deb]

Deb, thanks for the very interesting article. That article refers to a website dealing specifically with the placebo effect:

Thank you! I'm looking forward to reading it.

[LarryH]

I understand double-blind studies, I think they're the way to go. But I would think the volunteer would be informed beforehand that they could be getting a placebo, is that not the case?

They are told that they don't know if they are getting the medication or the placebo.

[inavalan]

The tests are double-blind, that is, the patient and the provider do not know who is getting the placebo and who is getting the drug, so in these tests, there can be no manipulation of the patient's impressions for or against the drug or placebo.

I understand double-blind studies, I think they're the way to go. But I would think the volunteer would be informed beforehand that they could be getting a placebo, is that not the case?

If we think from the perspective of "creating your own reality", it seems that the volunteer (be that even a lab-rat) will influence his own outcome. If he is fearful that he might get the placebo, then he'll get it; and vice-versa.

We can't have it both ways, declare that we trust and accept Seth's precepts, and in our ordinary life accept and trust what contradicts those. Surely, consciously trusting Seth isn't enough, but we should keep him in mind

This double-blind discussion ... brought to my mind the "electron double-slit experiment", and the "delayed-choice quantum eraser". They relate to the wave-particle duality of matter. This is a paraphrase:

• If an electron is directed through a plane with two slits in it and either slit is observed, it will not go through both slits. If it is unobserved, it will. However, if it is observed after it has passed through the plane but before it hits the target, it will not have gone through both slits!

Very interesting: the electron's past behavior seems to be influenced by a later choice! This doesn't contradict Seth!

[Deb]

If he is fearful that he might get the placebo, then he'll get it; and vice-versa.

Which makes me wonder why someone fearful of a placebo would even take part in a trial.

I've read of cases where people who had received the placebo experienced known side effects of the actual drug. Again, evidence of the power of belief and the mind.

[LarryH]

If he is fearful that he might get the placebo, then he'll get it; and vice-versa.

Which makes me wonder why someone fearful of a placebo would even take part in a trial.

I've read of cases where people who had received the placebo experienced known side effects of the actual drug. Again, evidence of the power of belief and the mind.

I don't think they would be fearful of the placebo. They might be fearful that getting the placebo would mean that they would not get the benefits of the experimental treatment. And how would anyone know in advance the side effects of an experimental drug? Part of the purpose of these tests would be to find out if there are side effects. I suppose if it's a class of drug that is known to have side effects such as chemotherapy, someone getting the placebo might experience similar side effects. But if the treatment is novel with no prior similar treatment, side effects could not be predicted by the participant.

[Deb]

I don't think they would be fearful of the placebo. They might be fearful that getting the placebo would mean that they would not get the benefits of the experimental treatment. And how would anyone know in advance the side effects of an experimental drug?

That's actually what I meant—why would someone take part in a drug trial knowing placebos are being used, if they are fearful of getting a placebo rather than the actual medication? Why take part in drug trials in the first place? I suppose there are a few different reasons people do it, one of them being financial gain, which I suspect is a great motivator. I came across someone on FB a while ago that was bragging that she has participated in numerous drug trials, every one she could. Because she does not feel she is putting her health at risk and she made quite a bit of money for doing so.

I've never been tempted myself, despite having seen numerous ads seeking participants. For one thing I've not had any physical problems that need new pharma.

As far as knowing in advance the side effects... that would that be something I'd have to look for. I'm pretty sure I read that in books written by Joe Dispenza, I just need to find it. But for now, for what it's worth:

https://www.bidmc.org/about-bidmc/news/2022/01/placebo-effect-contributes-to-covid-19-vaccine-adverse-events

[LarryH]

...why would someone take part in a drug trial knowing placebos are being used, if they are fearful of getting a placebo rather than the actual medication? Why take part in drug trials in the first place?

Another reason might be that a person might have a condition that has not been successfully treated, and with the trial, they have a 50/50 chance of getting an experimental drug that might help. Likewise, during a pandemic, a healthy person might have a 50/50 chance of being an early recipient of a vaccine that might protect them.