York Beach couple

[Mark M]

Machine translation from

SESSION 545 12. AUGUST 1970

Since you are physically born into your system, you assume, without thinking about it, that you will be born into other systems in the same way. This may or may not be true, but it definitely does not apply to the entire system of probabilities....

From this point of view, these are fragment personalities, and therefore they carry your memories within them up to this point of activation, and from there they continued on their own. You perceived them as much older because of how you interpreted, created, and then perceived bitterness and negative attitudes. For them, however, they were the same age as you at the time of their separation.

Such personalities can and are created under too many different conditions to list them all....
So they were "born" (in quotation marks) with the same hopes that you had back then, but they were personalities overwhelmed with fears. (Break.)

After you created them, you saw them because of your abilitities as corporeal appearances within physical reality, and Ruburt immediately made the conscious comparison and decided that he should never look like them or be filled with the bitterness that was written on his face....

In every person's life, of course, there are moments of deep crisis and decision in which a person must choose one of several possible options. You are not necessarily aware of such moments, nor are you necessarily aware of the decisions (underlined), but they often penetrate into your consciousness. At this point, however, the inner work has already been done and the decision has already been made.

Both of you were therefore largely freed from the worst of your negative attitudes and tendencies when you stepped out of them in this way. From that point on, your improvement began....

[Mark M]

Here is a post I sent to others with some repeat Seth:


¶ In late 1963, some months before our sessions began, we'd taken a vacation in York Beach, Maine, hoping that a change of environment would improve Rob's health. The doctor didn't know what was wrong with his back and suggested that he spend some time under traction in the hospital. Instead we decided that his reaction to stress was at least partially responsible, hence the trip.
—Jane Roberts, The Seth Material; Chapter Two
 
 
They went to a dancing establishment there and saw this couple who kind of resembled them but they seemed older and quite sour in expression.
 
They took a fascination in them.
 
Rob, also, despite his back, had a "reaction impulse" as it were to seeing them to get up and dance (the Twist was then the rage) and grabbed Jane's hand and pulled her to the dance floor and they danced. (Also, Rob was two years older than my dad, b. 1919. Hard to imagine my dad doing that or Mom who was the same age as Jane, b.1929.)
 
¶ (The incident referred to is as follows: Rob was very sick last winter and spring and into summer. We planned on a vacation in Maine. Rob was inclined to call it off, but I was for it and we went. In a York Beach joint, I immediately noticed a couple sitting across the room from us. They disturbed me to such an extent that I watched them almost constantly all the time we were there, three hours or more.
[... 2 paragraphs ...]
¶ (Rob surprised me by asking me to dance, insisting even, though the dance number was a twist, and we didn't know it. Reluctant, I agreed. We found ourselves on the other side of the floor, shoved next to the couple's table, dancing very close. The woman smiled. I do not remember them leaving. We just looked up much later and they were gone. I am very poor at visual imagery yet their faces came to mind often during our stay at York Beach, and for months later after our return.)

—Jane, The Early Sessions: Book 1 of The Seth Material; Session 9 December 18, 1963 © 2012 Laurel Davies-Butts
 
¶ The man and the woman in the York Beach dancing establishment, sitting across the floor alone at a table. They were fragments of your selves, thrown-off materializations of your own negative and aggressive feelings. Jane's were even stronger than yours [Rob's], since the woman was fatter than the man. She almost recognized them because of the circumstances and your illness, and because of the peculiar vitality of your conflicting emotions at the time.

—Seth, The Early Sessions: Book 1 of The Seth Material; Session 9 December 18, 1963 © 2012 Laurel Davies-Butts
 
"Now as to the York Beach images. Here aggressive and destructive energies were unconsciously projected outward, given a pseudo-reality and temporary physical validity. The emotional charge provides the pattern and impetus for such creations. According to the extent of physical reality to be achieved, the physical body of the originator [Jane and Rob] transfers or transposes portions of its own chemical structure. Proteins are used, and there is a high carbohydrate loss.


"In the same way that the body's proteins and chemicals can be used to form various kinds of images, they may also be utilized to form an ulcer, goiter, or to affect other changes [in the body itself]. Here particular emotions are denied, dissociated. The individual does not want to accept them as a part of the self. Instead of projecting them outward as you did in the York Beach images, they are directed to a specific area of the body, or in other cases allowed to wander, traveling troublemakers, so to speak, through the body's physical system."


—Seth, The Seth Material, Chapter Two


 
SESSION 545 12. AUGUST 1970, Seth (machine translation):


Since you are physically born into your system, you assume, without thinking about it, that you will be born into other systems in the same way. This may or may not be true, but it definitely does not apply to the entire system of probabilities....



From this point of view, these are fragment personalities, and therefore they carry your memories within them up to this point of activation, and from there they continued on their own. You perceived them as much older because of how you interpreted, created, and then perceived bitterness and negative attitudes. For them, however, they were the same age as you at the time of their separation.


Such personalities can and are created under too many different conditions to list them all....
So they were "born" (in quotation marks) with the same hopes that you had back then, but they were personalities overwhelmed with fears. (Break.)

After you created them, you saw them because of your abilitities as corporeal appearances within physical reality, and Ruburt immediately made the conscious comparison and decided that he should never look like them or be filled with the bitterness that was written on his face....

In every person's life, of course, there are moments of deep crisis and decision in which a person must choose one of several possible options. You are not necessarily aware of such moments, nor are you necessarily aware of the decisions (underlined), but they often penetrate into your consciousness. At this point, however, the inner work has already been done and the decision has already been made.

Both of you were therefore largely freed from the worst of your negative attitudes and tendencies when you stepped out of them in this way. From that point on, your improvement began....
 
This lucid dream account of their friend Sue Watkins also appears in her Conversations with Seth:


There [a park], to my surprise and delight, I see Jane and Bob Butts talking to some other people. Or is it actually Jane and Bob? They seem older and both look very cynical about whatever they are discussing. I wonder if the town is Sayre, PA [where Rob grew up and near to Elmira, NY] and if we are all actually there or if we just made this place up. The other people leave and I sit next to Jane and to my surprise they don't notice or recognize me at all. At this point I suddenly realize that this is the dream state of another probabilistic system involving the probable selves of Jane and Bob [like the idea of a parallel universe]. I spontaneously say to them: "My name is Sue Watkins and my husband's name is Ned." They give me a pretty nasty "So what? -- Look at. I look up and notice an older, short, stocky man in some kind of dark purple robe sitting across from us and with a start I realize that it is Seth. I say, "Do you know him?" and point to him. Jane laughs. "You mean old Santa Claus over there?" I wince. Then I notice how worn out they look. Jane is much larger and wears a black, long-sleeved turtleneck sweater. Her hair is fuller but quite gray. Bob looks extremely tired and sits slouched; his face is not fat, but fleshy -- almost worn out. He smokes one cigarette after the other. They both look bitter and not very happy.

I feel like I have to protect her. Somehow I start a discussion with them about the Seth material and get into physical reality and such and find out that a few years ago through Jane they received some strange messages from "someone who claimed to be the spirit of a dead person." received. 'But that was ridiculous,' says Jane, 'so we let it go.'

"Listen," I say, "you and I are in the dream state. I come from a different probability system. You know me there. In my probabilistic system, you followed up on the 'messages' and found" -- I look at Seth, who smiles -- " that they came from him, and then you said fantastic things about them

experience life. You also looked a bit younger there -- she's about 40 and you, Bob, are 50 there, but age doesn't matter to you there...

In that probability you, Bob, have been painting constantly and Jane has published a series of short stories, a novel and poems before this even began. Are you doing that now too?

Jane and Bob look at each other and laugh -- an evil, bitter laugh. "She still works all day at the taxi company," Bob says, "and I work too. Would you like to come over to our house and see the pictures I painted?" I nod and we leave the restaurant -- Seth follows us. We walk down a shady, quiet street and turn into a large white house with a covered porch. To the left of the porch is a large tree and a weedy driveway leads to a large white one Barn with sashes. We go up an outside staircase and reach an apartment that appears to have a large living room. Bob is just about to take out some paintings - they appear to be landscapes -- when he groans and almost falls over from the pain in his back. He manages to lie down on the floor and I try to show him some yoga poses, but he brushes me off. I suddenly have an urgent need to do something for her before it's all over.


-----=-----


Further Seth remarks about it, SESSION 545 12. AUGUST 1970 (machine translation):


So to go into your friend Sue Watkins' experience and the connection to the probable universe.

The experience was completely valid, and it was intended as a lesson on many levels. First of all, it becomes clear that there is communication between different probabilistic systems and that actions in one system can and do affect others. The couple (an older version of Jane and me) actually exists, as probable selves of yours in a different system. Your friend has engaged in activities in likely fields in developing her skills and has become emotionally attracted to the couple because she has an emotional connection with you in this system.

The couple in question will remember parts of the experience, and this will in turn serve to forcefully remind them of skills they are not using; So it acts like a stimulus in that system, which, however, came about from this system and through the mediation of a friend. (Break.)

The matter is also a lesson for you if you think negatively, for it shows you the consequences of such negative thoughts being pursued incessantly, despite countervailing actions that would alter the events themselves. The other couple, for example, ignored contact with me (Seth was also involved in Sue's experience). The negative and bitter qualities of both of their personalities came to the fore, unchecked and untouched by the fulfilling and creative abilities that had also stifled them.

They really envy you. But they grow up unable to take advantage of your knowledge due to the poor state of their psyche. The matter served to remind them once again of my contact with them and to make them think, and it also served as a new incentive for further contact.

(Seth gestured humorously, but then became quiet and leaned forward with pointed seriousness.)

We seek to save even our shadows, and we bring light to the darkest corners of our hidden fragments. To this extent and under these conditions we are our own redeemers.

To a large extent you, you and Ruburt [Seth's name for Jane; he calls Rob "Joseph"], were also responsible for the contact, because without your current experiences, your relationship with me and your friendship with the young woman, your probable selves would not have received any help. So a part of the self helps another, just as I help you.

I liked that you understand that communication is not only vertical, ascending or descending, but also horizontal in this sense. Can you follow me?

(Yes.)

At the same time, this experience was intended as a moral lesson for your Sue Watkins. (Pause.) She sees you in a physical reality as people she respects and admires. Sue's probable experience was that she was able to see what could have happened to you in this system if you had given in to negative thoughts and feelings and had not been sufficiently persistent in your work and efforts.

By comparing the two couples, she learned a practical lesson for both herself and her husband. Furthermore, you all learned from this experience that help is transferred from one system to another. The other couple, the likely couple, also helped you and your friend, even if quite unconsciously on a conscious level, by serving as such an object lesson.

Here is my Twilight Zone riff on this:

Seth said, "...they carry your memories within them up to this point of activation..."

What would have happened if the Jane and Rob would have spoken to the other couple?

Rob: Where are you from?

YB guy: I grew up in Sayre, PA.

Rob: So did I! You must have attended XYZ High School.

YB guy: Yes.

Rob: I had this art class with Suzie Sweetpea in it; what a character!

YB guy: Yes! I remember her!

Rob: Hm. I don't remember you.

YB guy: I don't remember you either.

Rob: The teacher was Mr. Perkins.

YB guy: Yep.

Rob: Hmmm.

A little more from the sessions:

"In that reality, I came back from York Beach, gave up my apartment in Elmira, went back to Sayre, lived with my parents for a while, and commuted to my job in Elmira to save money."

Now, kick in a little Twilight Zone:

Rob goes to visit his parents and finds the other guy living there.

Rob: What are you doing here?

YB guy: What do you mean? I grew up here!

Rob: What?! What is your name?

YB guy; Robert Butts.

Rob: I'm Robert Butts! Who do you think you are? Get outa here!

Etc.

 

The TZ-esque potential was right there that evening Jane and Rob saw them had they conversed:


Rob (with a bit of pride): I got an A for my portrait of Perkins' girlfriend, and he prominently displayed it at the front of the room that semester.


YB guy: What are you talking about? I did that painting!


Etc.

On Saturday, December 23, 2023 at 06:22:14 PM CST, Lisa wrote:


Fun mini screenplay there, Mark! 


I read of the York Beach incident long ago, and not long after that I remember seeing someone out in public that I feel I created or only I could see. Not exactly a probable self but sort of, and more positive than the YB couple. I wonder if we project and perceive people we want to be, too. The feeling was that I could not take my eyes off them, while everyone else didn't seem to react to them at all.
Lisa
 

On Dec 23, 2023, at 6:39 PM, Mark M wrote:

�
Thank you, Lisa.


As to your interesting experience, why not?


"Such personalities can and are created under too many different conditions to list them all...."
 
Maybe if one suspects a person is a York Beach-type person, one should seek to talk to them.

[inavalan]

This means that it is possible that we joined a reality in which Jane died when we know she did, while a more advanced fragment of her entity lived a healthier and longer life, because that fragment succeeded into shedding more negativity than Jane did as the fragment we are aware of now.

[Mark M]

Since, given a fork in the road, a probable self takes the fork "you" did not, probabilities are ever-abundant, and I've thought there must be a probability where Jane got better and lived a good number of years longer.

In an early session, Seth said there would be 40 years of Jane channeling.

Yet, entering the Jane-lives probability from the Jane-died one, appears to be utterly off limits.

[Mark M]

"Those alive with you, your contemporaries, do not all belong to the same probable system. You are at a meeting ground in that respect, where individuals from many probable realities mix and merge, agreeing momentarily to accept certain portions of the same space-time environment."

--Seth, UR2 Section 6: Session 729 January 13, 1975

"So to go into your friend Sue Watkins' experience and the connection to the probable universe.

"The experience was completely valid, and it was intended as a lesson on many levels. First of all, it becomes clear that there is communication between different probabilistic systems and that actions in one system can and do affect others. The couple (an older version of Jane and me) actually exists, as probable selves of yours in a different system."

"[The York Beach couple] carry your memories within them up to this point of activation..."

--Seth, SESSION 545 12. AUGUST 1970 (mach trans)

The YB couple had to be from a different probable reality, because with the common memories Jane and Rob had with them, if they somehow were in the same probability, both couples would come back to Elmira from YB to the same apartment (and then a big fight would ensue -- joking).

At the point of activation, with common memories, the two Janes, for instance, would have had the same amount of money in their respective purses, I would think.

[Mark M]

"...they carry your memories within them up to this point of activation..." (machine trans)

Now, when did the point of activation occur?

For if it was not long before Jane and Rob noticed them in the dancing establishment, would they not each respectively be wearing matching outfits? Both Robs wearing, say, beige pants and a plaid shirt, same pattern?

And had that been the case, I would think that would have been part of the story as recounted by Jane and Rob since that would have been rather remarkable.

[inavalan]

I think these questions are answered if you look at it from the perspective of the present being the point of power, from which the past is also created. So, it isn't as much that there was a past that you remember, but that you have in your present memory information that you believe to be in your past. This past is created according to your present beliefs and needs.

It seems that your entity, at various points of a chosen incarnation, may decide to further split the experience, based on different choices of a personality, working on two (probably even more than two) distinct fragments that became distinct identities. This would look as if from one single seed a tree with multiple trunks, branches, leaves develops.

It would've been so nicer if the Seth material were clearer and more structured, but I guess that this wasn't possible because it was intended to reach a very wide audience in terms of evolvement and beliefs, and it was also limited by Jane's ability to conceptualize enough to put in words what she received directly. She wasn't parroting, but translating the information.

[Bora137]

Do the fragments continue on or are they just energy releases in a moment then they disperse?

[inavalan]

I think that fragments continue, and they will live with their choices, as they manifested their free will according to their abilities. The entity chooses as main learning vehicle the fragment that chose correctly. That is the one that will eventually graduate that incarnation.

Ruburt, the entity, chooses / chose the Jane, the personality fragment, that made the correct choices from the entity's perspective. The other Jane fragments continue the paths they chose, maybe with some possibility to compensate for the errors they made, but mostly won't..

All this is pretty vaguely detailed by the Seth material, but it isn't contradicted by it.

I think that the reality is vastly different than we perceive it.

[Mark M]

>Do the fragments continue on or are they just energy releases in a moment then they disperse?

The eternal validity of a fragment personality.

This is Seth remarking on Sue's lucid dream of the couple, machine translation, and I think it implies they go on:

"The matter served to remind them once again of my contact with them and to make them think, and it also served as a new incentive for further contact.

(Seth gestured humorously, but then became quiet and leaned forward with pointed seriousness.)

"We seek to save even our shadows, and we bring light to the darkest corners of our hidden fragments. To this extent and under these conditions we are our own redeemers."