Seth on "Second Coming"

[jbseth]

Hi All,

To me, one of the most controversial topics that Seth ever talked about was the "Second Coming" of Christ (see, "Seth Speaks", Chapter 21, Session 586, July 24, 1971).

For the longest time, I've been grappling with this subject. It seems very odd to me that given what Seth had to say about predictions, predestination, the plastic nature of time and probable realities that he was so adamant about insisting that such a future event would occur. Why did he do this? That's the issue that I don't understand.

Is it possible that he had another reason for doing this? Maybe. On the other hand, maybe he was just really confident that this was going to occur, and he wanted to get this information out there.


Let's take a look at some of the things that Seth said that are related to this subject.


A Seth Prediction: 

TES9, S455, P194, January 6, 1969:

(Seth also said that Jane and I would die within a short time of each other, when our earthly work was finished. No date or sequence was given. Seth said that Jane would publish 5 books on the Seth Material; 3 novels; 3 books of poetry; plus 2 books to be dictated by Seth himself. I do not recall if the dream book, now at Ace, was mentioned; or if others were.[Jane died in 1984. I'm publishing Volume 9 in 2002.]


As we can see here, Seth wasn't infallible. Furthermore, even his predictions weren't infallible, or any more infallible than anyone else's. Jane and Rob did not die within a short time of each other. Jane died in 1984 and Rob died in 2008.

I suppose that it could be argued that Seth said this in the hopes that Jane would modify her thinking and behavior. If she came to "believe" that she would live a long time, then maybe she actually would live a long time.




Seth on Predictions:

Seth Speaks Appendix:  ESP Class Session Tuesday, January 5, 1971

(Janice S. commented that Seth did not give many predictions.)

I am not cautious, I am simply realistic. When you understand the nature of reality then you realize that predictions of future events are basically meaningless. You can predict some events and they occur, but you create the future in every moment.

Time in your terms is plastic. Most predictions are made in a highly distorted fashion; they lead the public astray. Not only that, but when the predictors fall flat on their faces it does not help "The Cause." Reality does not exist in that fashion. You can tune in to certain probabilities and predict "that they will occur," but free will always operates. No god in giant ivory figures says, "This will happen February 15th at 8:05." And if no god predicts, then I do not see the point of doing so myself.


This is what I find confusing. Seth's comments above are very consistent with everything else that he says about the nature of time, probabilities, creating your reality, the nature of the past, present and future, etc. in the rest of his very large amount of information that he presented for some 20 years. Why was he so adamant in his emphasis regarding this future "second coming" event".




Seth on Predestination:

Seth Speaks Appendix:  ESP Class Session Tuesday, February 9, 1971

(During break a discussion of fate and predestination.)

Some evening I would like our Lady from Florence to talk to me about predestination.

(Bernice M.: "I would like you to talk to me about it. ")

You are not programmed. Nothing happens because it must happen. Every thought that you have now changes reality. Not only reality as you know it, but all reality. No act of yours predisposes a future self to act in a particular manner. There are banks of activity from which you can draw or choose not to draw.



Here Seth seems to be telling us that there is no predestination. Every thought that you have now changes reality. Not only reality as you know it, but all reality.






Seth on the "Second Coming"

SS", Ch 21, S586, July 24, 1971).

By 2075, all of this will be already accomplished.

[...]

Events are not predestined. The framework for this emergence has already been set, however, within your system of probabilities.


Here Seth seems to be stating that while events are not predestined, the framework for the emergence of this event had already been set in 1971. Does the fact of this framework having already been set in place, back in 1971, mean that this event is absolutely guaranteed to occur?






Seth on the timing of the "second coming"

SS, Ch 21, S586, July 24, 1971.

By 2075, all of this will be already accomplished.


SS, Ch 21, S588, August 2, 1971.

(Jane and I each noted questions before the session this evening.
(In the 586th session, earlier in this chapter, Seth stated that by the year 2075 the third Christ — Paul or Saul — would have enacted the Second Coming, exerting of course a profound effect upon religion and world history. Jane thought a period of less than a century was much too short a time to encompass so many dramatic changes. She wanted me to ask Seth if she had distorted this data while delivering it.

[...]

Now in answer to Ruburt's question: The birth will occur at the time given; by the time given (the year 2075). The other changes will occur generally over the period of a century, but the results will show far before that time.

Because of the plastic nature of the future, in your terms, the date cannot be considered final. All probabilities point in its direction, however, for the inner impetus is already forming the events.


At first, it appears that Seth was saying all of the events associated with the second coming would be accomplished by 2075. Then when Rob asked Seth about this specifically, he seems to be saying that the "birth" will occur "at" the time 2075, but then he says "by" the time, 2075, which could mean sometime before 2075.

After this he says the other changes will occur generally over the course of a century but the results will show far before that century is up.

Then he says, that because of the plastic nature of the future, the date cannot be considered final.

He does seem pretty adamant this this will occur.  I wonder why?



It has now been almost 50 years, since Seth first mentioned this potential future event.

To be honest I have some serious doubts about this prediction. Why? Because it seems to fly in the face and contradict almost everything else that Seth seemed to say about predictions, predestination, the plastic nature of time and how we change our reality at every moment.

I can't help but wonder if there may have been some other reason or some other purpose why Seth said this.  Perhaps, it was to make people aware of the possibility that something like this "could" actually occur.


Here's my questions:

In regards to this second coming event, in Session 586, given in 1971 Seth said that there will be several born before this second coming who will rearouse man's expectations.

He talked about a man in India, near Calcutta.

He also talked about a black man, born in Africa, whose main work will be in Indonesia.



I was wondering if anyone here has any idea who either one of these 2 men were or are?

I was also wondering if anyone here has any strong evidence that indicates that we are "still" on track for this event to occur?



-jbseth

[zoonie29]

I have been following this forum for some time now but have never commented before. I just enjoy reading the comments so much and getting insight from all of you. I have read all the Seth books and now reading the Early Sessions. However, this topic has always made me wonder. Why did he give predictions when he said predictions are useless? I wonder if he did this hoping enough people would believe in the second coming in hopes of it changing our world for the better? Maybe it was a kind of "manipulation" to get us to look forward to things getting better and the positive thoughts would then manifest it? I just don't know...

[Sena]

Why did he give predictions when he said predictions are useless?

zoonie29, welcome to the forum. I personally do not take seriously the prediction of the Second Coming of Christ. It is possible that Seth's teachings could have been "contaminated" to a certain extent by the personal beliefs of Jane and Rob, and we know that Jane was brought up as a Roman Catholic.

[jbseth]

I have been following this forum for some time now but have never commented before. I just enjoy reading the comments so much and getting insight from all of you. I have read all the Seth books and now reading the Early Sessions. However, this topic has always made me wonder. Why did he give predictions when he said predictions are useless? I wonder if he did this hoping enough people would believe in the second coming in hopes of it changing our world for the better? Maybe it was a kind of "manipulation" to get us to look forward to things getting better and the positive thoughts would then manifest it? I just don't know...

Hi zoonie29,

Welcome to the forum. 

I'm glad that you decided to write a reply on the forum, as we all learn from each other.

I too have always wondered about this. I also wonder, assuming that we were on track for this to occur in our future, back in 1971, are we still on track for it to occur today in 2020?



I really liked the early sessions books, there was a lot of information in there that wasn't really covered or wasn't covered as well in some of the "Seth" books. I particularly found TES3, (The Early Session, Book 3) to be enlightening, where Seth talks about realities, the "electric" reality and the 3 dilemmas.

The information in these early session books were really all over the place though. In one session, Seth might have been talking about his theory. Then, in the next session he might be talking to Jane and Rob about personal things, like moving their refrigerator out of the bathroom. Then, in the next session, he might be talking to John Bradley about some issue that John had with his job. Following this, he might be showing up and moving his fingers over the top of Jane's, while Rob and Bill MacDonald were looking on. 

It was kind of challenging, in some cases, to track what we was saying about his theory, because the next time he discusses it, might be several sessions further along before he brings it up again.

I did find all of the various subjects and the information in these books to be every bit as interesting and rewarding as what he had to share in his later books.


Welcome to the forum.

- jbseth

[zoonie29]

Thank you. It makes you wonder then what else isn't reliable? I love the Seth books but as always I go with my gut and heart. I was raised religiously and then for many years considered myself atheist but deep down I've always believed we come from somewhere and this isn't an accident. I realized I'm not a theist nor an atheist and when I found the Seth material I was shocked at how it made sense to me. (Although some things were odd to me and that included the second coming and Jesus stuff). I'm always skeptical and don't fully buy into anything. I just try to go with my heart and utilize my intuition and live the best life I can.

The second coming seemed odd. I sort of felt, uh if you didn't get it right the first time and really messed things up so much that this world has suffered immensely under Christian control for thousands of years, don't bother coming back. Let's not take a chance of it going bad again. lol That's my skeptical, sarcastic side though.

The Seth material has changed my life for the better though. All That Is and where we came from (dreaming ourselves in this world), it just hit home with me and I've read a lot of stuff. The RA material, I felt had truths to it, but it also felt very manipulative, like RA has a specific agenda and my "soul" wasn't interested in playing a part in it. I've read the Urantia book. Perhaps there were some nuggets of truth there but strongly felt it was packed full of human bias and prejudice. I've read Abraham...so many books along these lines but The Seth material is the one I felt mostly hit the nail on the head. I suppose I can only believe in myself and do my best in this life and whatever happens happens. I take from the Seth material what feels right and not worry about the rest. What else can I do?

[Deb]

I just try to go with my heart and utilize my intuition and live the best life I can.

Hi zoonie29, thanks for posting! Yes, go with your heart! I think we here were all surprised at how much the Seth materials felt right or made sense from the beginning.

Seth said more than a few times that predictions aren't always accurate, because we have free will and so things can change because of certain decisions made that will change probabilities. He rarely made predictions, but I do remember him saying (and I couldn't find the quote), that some probabilities are "more probable" than others because of trends in our behavior, or that the stage has already been set for a particular event. Also, although we do make our reality, it seems the oversoul's intentions trump the individual's. There's a topic here on free will that contains some quotes about that: https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?topic=1187.msg=9804 . Apparently our free will here in F1 has its limitations, probably so we can operate within this system's constraints.

I think the material about religion in the books is the most awkward, in that while I think Rob was very interested and asked Seth questions, Jane had some pretty deep scars from her early religious experiences and resisted the information, some times to the point of blocking Seth out. It's also the part of the materials in which I have the least interest. I was raised Catholic but religion never sat right with me.

I did find a few good quotes about predictions, and a couple of hints in that Seth has a "larger scope of perception." Also in this first quote, I wonder if the reason we will "often continue with certain lines of probability" has more to do with our expected outcomes from things we "foresee."

"This does not mean that the future cannot be predicted sometimes, for in practical terms you will often continue with certain lines of probability which can be seen "ahead of time.""
—NoPR Chapter 14: Session 654, April 9, 1973

"I am not cautious, I am simply realistic and when you understand the nature of reality then you realize that predictions of future events are basically meaningless. Now you can predict some events and they occur, but you create the future in every moment in your frame of reference, and time in your terms is plastic. Most predictions are made in a highly distorted fashion, and they lead the public astray. [...] You can tune in to certain probabilities and predict "that they will occur," but free will always operates and no god in giant ivory figures says, this will happen February 15th at 8:05 and if no god predicts, then I do not see the point of doing so myself."
—TECS3 ESP Class Session, January 5, 1971

"(Seth also agreed that all such predictions are indeed based on probabilities. By and large, he said, predictions will work out if no major drastic changes in personality and/or behavior occur."
—TES5 Session 230 February 6, 1966

"Because I have a larger scope of perception than you, I can with greater facility predict what may happen. But this is dependent upon my prediction as to which choice [of probable events] you will make, and the choice is still your own ... Predictions, per se, do not contradict the theory of free will, though free will is dependent upon much more than any freedom of the ego alone."
—UR1 Section 1: Session 681 February 11, 1974

As we can see here, Seth wasn't infallible. Furthermore, even his predictions weren't infallible, or any more infallible than anyone else's. Jane and Rob did not die within a short time of each other. Jane died in 1984 and Rob died in 2008.

I wonder if Rob stuck around much longer because of Laurel? I could imagine him wasting away after Jane's death, but to be married to a beautiful, kind, smart woman half his age who helped him get more of the materials published may have given him a new lease on life.

I was wondering if anyone here has any idea who either one of these 2 men were or are?

It looks like you've been talking about me. Here i am. Ask the questions. Yep, i'm that personality.........no one will ever know that i am that personality, however. Or maybe i'm just another aspect of that personality. It matters not.

[zoonie29]

"Seth said more than a few times that predictions aren't always accurate, because we have free will and so things can change because of certain decisions made that will change probabilities. He rarely made predictions, but I do remember him saying (and I couldn't find the quote), that some probabilities are "more probable" than others because of trends in our behavior, or that the stage has already been set for a particular event. Also, although we do make our reality, it seems the oversoul's intentions trump the individual's. There's a topic here on free will that contains some quotes about that: https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?topic=1187.msg=9804 . Apparently our free will here in F1 has its limitations, probably so we can operate within this system's constraints.

I think the material about religion in the books is the most awkward, in that while I think Rob was very interested and asked Seth questions, Jane had some pretty deep scars from her early religious experiences and resisted the information, some times to the point of blocking Seth out. It's also the part of the materials in which I have the least interest. I was raised Catholic but religion never sat right with me."

Deb,

Yes! Thank you for that insight. I had forgotten a few things Seth had said on predictions. Religion never sat well with me either. Something felt very off, especially when it came to women's place in the world. I just didn't buy into the patriarchal, subjugated role women play. I knew from the time I was a teenager it was all BS. The Seth material was the first thing I ever read that I thought actually made some sense.

I appreciate everyone's thought on here. 

[jbseth]

I'm always skeptical and don't fully buy into anything. I just try to go with my heart and utilize my intuition and live the best life I can.

Hi zoonie29,

Wow, that's a perfect way to live. 

I'm rereading the Seth book NOPR (Nature of Personal Reality) right now and in this book, Seth really stresses that we look closely at the beliefs we have and hold, and that we not blindly accept the beliefs of others. In other words, we should be skeptical and not buy into anything.

Somewhere, in one of his many books, which I can't seem to locate right now, Seth says something like (and I'm paraphrasing here) to not follow his beliefs, not follow anyone else's beliefs, but to always first, follow your own inner thoughts, feelings, intuition and guidance.



Many years ago, when I first started reading the "Seth" books, I was very much in touch with my intellectual, analytical, scientific side and at the same time, very much "not" in touch with my emotional or intuitional side. At the time, I couldn't understand how it was that for the most part, "Seth's message, felt to "right" to me. 

Over the years I have come to understand that for the most part, "Seth's messages" have always felt "right" to me, because it comes the closest to what my deepest thoughts, feelings and intuition, have always been trying to tell me, is true for me.


Going with your heart and utilizing your intuition is an excellent way for anyone to live their life.


- jbseth

[T.M.]

Hi All,

With probable timelines, I think a 2nd coming is likely for those who deeply and fervently believe in the Christ story.
I'm not trying to suggest it is or isn't real. Just saying that many people energetically focused on such a figure.
With so many "religious" groups praying for the appearance of a saviour, I think that will be it's own self fulfilling prophecy.

Maybe theirs a timeline where that saviour is a political figure, for those deeply, emotionally invested in politics.

[jbseth]

Hi T.M., Hi All,

Actually, I think that somewhere, in some place, all realities and all probable realities do and will come to pass.

These will include realities where, Christianity never existed, realities where Christianity did exist, but no second coming ever occurred, and realities where Christianity did exist and a second coming did occur.

Furthermore, in these realities where a second coming did occur, all possible variations of this second coming will take place somewhere, including the one that Seth talked about in "Seth Speaks".

I'm just not so sure that the second coming events that he talked about in "Seth Speaks" will occur in my present / future reality.


- jbseth

[T.M.]

Hi All,

Hi Jbseth,

I agree and think you summed it up perfectly!!

[Cosmic]

Hi there,

this is my first post in the forum. I stumbled upon this post (and site) whilst looking for what Seth said on the "second coming". I was motivated to sign up so I could join the discussion, so thank you for posting this!

I love the Seth Material and have been reading it for over 20 years (as I imagine many of you have). I'm delighted to have found this site!

Here are my thoughts on this matter:

I do believe Seth was being consistent in making this prediction for reasons I'll elaborate on:

Firstly, the biggest indicator is this phrase;

"All probabilities point in its direction"

We humans are quite set in our ways. That makes us really predictable. When many probable realities point in one direction and when an entity like Seth has access to these in a conscious way, you can safely assume the prediction is close to accuracy.

I imagine a global prediction would be easier to tune into than a prediction regarding an individual as one probable reality may stand out today (in our terms
   ) but a new one may stand out tomorrow. Although again, given that we're creatures of habit, vague predictions could be quite achievable.

Separate to that, a prediction as big as this is plausible and relatively easy to see, given the deep collective desire for it.

From my perspective, what Seth stated regarding predictions was not an indication that predictions are impossible. The intention was to give us a better understanding of the nature of time and probabilities.

I always try to remember (especially when I'm reading Seth Material), that time is not linear, even though my brain tries to interpret it as such. So I understand this prediction was described in the moment it was actually happening and with the manifesting strength of "all probable realities pointing in that direction" bringing it to actuality. Hence Seth being able to confidently predict it.

As for the Indian man, I strongly suspect it was Osho. Mainly because his teachings are very much aligned with this prediction.

As Seth stated in the first chapter of the Eternal Validity of the Soul, although the words are the same, we are all reading completely different books (or something to that effect) so it's very interesting to hear different perspectives/interpretations.

[Cosmic]

"Seth said more than a few times that predictions aren't always accurate, because we have free will and so things can change because of certain decisions made that will change probabilities. He rarely made predictions, but I do remember him saying (and I couldn't find the quote), that some probabilities are "more probable" than others because of trends in our behavior, or that the stage has already been set for a particular event. Also, although we do make our reality, it seems the oversoul's intentions trump the individual's."
@zoonie29 well said, that's very insightful. Particularly regarding the oversoul's intentions.

As a side note, quite often people refer to beliefs as conscious ones, insisting that if they "don't believe it, it won't happen", for example. Seth makes it abundantly clear that it's much more intricate and multi layered, as our beliefs form this whole universe down to every cellular structure.