Seth, Paul and Dogma

[jbseth]

Hi All,

Question: What's the opposite of "Dogma"?    Answer: Catma. 

I know, I know, that's really terrible but sometimes I just can't help myself. :)

Recently, I've seen some messages at this site where people have been talking about dogma. I found the following definition of dogma online from Wikipedia.

Dogma is a principle or set of principles laid down by an authority as incontrovertibly true. It serves as part of the primary basis of an ideology or belief system, and it cannot be changed or discarded without affecting the very system's paradigm, or the ideology itself.


I'd like to share some thoughts I had on the topic of Seth, Paul and Dogma.

To some degree, I think that what took place with the message of Jesus and Christianity, over the last 2,000 years, might be similar to what could also happen with the Seth information over the next 2,000 years.

In regards to this in, Seth Speaks, Chapter 21, Session 586, Seth says that, "When the historical Christ "died", Paul was to implement the spiritual ideas in physical terms, to carry on. In doing so however, he grew the seed of an organization that would smother the ideas."

In this same session, Seth also says this about Paul.

"This person had superior energy and power and great organizing abilities, but it was the errors that he made unwittingly that perpetuated some dangerous distortions."

"It was given to him to set up a framework. But it was to be a framework of ideas, not of regulations; of men, not of groups."



Now what I believe happened is this. Paul tried to figure out a way to pass along his ideas regarding the message of Jesus. Other people were also doing this at the same time. As an outcome of this, eventually various organizations were formed and from these organizations, various decisions were made as to what was the correct interpretation of Jesus's message and who was and who wasn't qualified to pass along this correct message.

Over time, some of these organizations attacked each other while others merged, changed and grew. Eventually the outcome of this was the Christian church. As the Christian Church merged, changed and evolved, the messages of Jesus also changed and some of them were discontinued. As a result of this, the message of the Christian church that is given today, may actually be very different from the original message that was given by Jesus.

Now, consider the various divergent views of the Seth information that are held by the various members of this forum. Next, consider how widely these views might change and grow over the next 100 years. Then consider how much more these views might change in the 400 years following this (that's 500 years into our future).  Next, consider how much more these views may actually change in the 1,500 years following this.

I think that if we were somehow able to travel forward, 2,000 years into the future, and if Seth's message had somehow managed to survive throughout all of that time, then, I think that it's quite possible that so many people would have interpreted Seth's message in so many different ways over all of this time, that we wouldn't even necessarily be able to recognize that message, as the message from Seth that we recognize today.

In addition to this, I'm not really sure that there is anything we can do about this.

Now, with this understanding, I'm also not really sure that there is anything we can do about preventing any dogma that either may or may not evolve with the Seth information in the future.

Any thoughts?

[Sena]

In regards to this in, Seth Speaks, Chapter 21, Session 586, Seth says that, "When the historical Christ "died", Paul was to implement the spiritual ideas in physical terms, to carry on. In doing so however, he grew the seed of an organization that would smother the ideas."

jbseth, thanks for bringing up this topic. It is a section of Seth Speaks which I had neglected. Reading that chapter I became aware of the complexity of Seth's teaching on the Christ entity. I shall therefore take the liberty of quoting further from Seth Speaks, so that the reader will see the picture more fully:

"Again, Christ was not crucified. The historical Christ, as
he is thought of, was a man illuminated by psychic realities, touched with
the infinite realization that any one given individual was, by virtue of his
or her existence, a contact between All That Is and mankind.

Christ saw that in each person divinity and humanity met — and that
man survived death by virtue of his existence within the divine. Without
exception, all of the horrors connected with Christianity's name came
from "following the letter rather than the spirit of the law," or by insistence upon literal interpretations —
while the spiritual, imaginative concepts beneath were
ignored."

"John and the historical Christ each performed their roles and were satisfied that
they had done so. Paul alone was left at the end unsatisfied, and so it is about his
personality that the future Christ will form.

The entity of which these personalities are part, that entity which you may call the
Christ entity, was aware of these issues. The earthly personalities were not aware of
them, although in periods of trance and exaltation much was made known to them.

Paul also represented the militant nature of man, that had to be taken into
consideration in line with man's development at the time. That militant quality in man
will completely change its nature, and be dispensed with as you know it, when the next
Christ personality emerges. It is therefore appropriate that Paul be present.

In the next century, the inner nature of man, with these developments, will free itself
from many constraints that have bound it. A new era will indeed begin - not, now, a
heaven on earth, but a far more sane and just world, in which man is far more aware of
his relationship with his planet and of his freedom within time.

I would like to make certain points clear. The "new religion" following the Second
Coming will not be Christian in your terms, although the third personality of Christ will
initiate it.

This personality will refer to the historical Christ, will recognize his relationship with
that personality; but within him the three personality groupings will form a new psychic
entity, a different psychological gestalt. As this metamorphosis takes place, it will
initiate a metamorphosis on a human level also, as man's inner abilities are accepted
and developed.

The results will be a different kind of existence. Many of your problems now result
from spiritual ignorance. No man will look down upon an individual from another race
when he himself recognizes that his own existence includes such membership also.

No sex will be considered better than the other, or any role in society, when each
individual is aware of his own or her own experience at many levels of society and in
many roles. An open-ended consciousness will feel its connections with all other living
beings. The continuity of consciousness will become apparent. As a result of all this the
social and governmental structures will change, for they are based upon your current
beliefs."

https://archive.org/stream/pdfy-56rRUG-ov0xn05ih/Jane%20Roberts%20-%20Seth%20Speaks_djvu.txt

I shall now comment on the passages I have highlighted in bold type:

"Christ saw that in each person divinity and humanity met". This implies that to refer to the Christ entity as a "god" is a distortion because it appears to deny the divinity of every other person.

"The entity of which these personalities are part, that entity which you may call the
Christ entity, was aware of these issues." The inference is that the Christ entity was dissatisfied with Paul's performance in his previous incarnation. It is to be hoped that when he comes again he will correct his mistakes, but as he has free will, there is no guarantee that his performance will be perfect even this time around.

"The "new religion" following the Second
Coming will not be Christian in your terms, although the third personality of Christ will
initiate it." My understanding is that it will be a new religion, not a rehash of Christianity.

"No sex will be considered better than the other". The sex discrmination which has blighted the past 2000 years will be eliminated.

[sethspeaks]

Hi All,
I think the "divinity and humanity" are the symbol of the soul and the ego.
"No sex Will Be Considered Better than the other" means that it makes no sense to deal with if a third personality will be male or female. It will be perceived by the soul, not gender.
If Paul can not do it, he will probably have to be born again. Paul chose his task himself ...

[Deb]

A great topic, I'm really enjoying this one. Lots of great information in here. I have never known much about Paul.

What is it about some of us humans, that we relentless seek THE TRUTH, thinking there is only one truth (dogma), as we think there is only one source of the beginning of everything? Sometimes I wonder what it's like to be an animal or plant, and just accept reality for what it appears to be. That's just an assumption on my part, for all I know the animals and plants and rocks could be more in touch with reality than we are.

Of all the things I've heard over my life, Seth's explanations of reality resonate the deepest with me. I try hard not to make the Seth teachings my dogma. It helps when I read comments about his messages having been distorted to some degree, and his constant reminders that the information he's provided is within us and available to us, if we would just get out of our own way. I suppose that's what the resonance is about. For me, the idea of distortion snaps me out of it: how can someone accept something as absolute truth, knowing the information is distorted? Also, I have to keep mind that if something feels right to me, that doesn't make it TRUTH. Maybe there is no such thing as truth, it's all so subjective. Seth said that we have very narrow/limited concepts about the soul and reality and that's becoming more and more obvious to me.

This constant questioning I do, 'is this true, real?' etc. reminds me of one of the techniques used to 'wake up' during a lucid dream: question the weird stuff that happens in our dreams, "what's wrong with this picture, is this real or a dream? If something is obviously bizarre, then I'm dreaming." And THAT reminds me of the times Seth said that our current waking consciousness is pretty much a dream too. Maybe this daytime searching for the truth is also an attempt by us to 'wake up' out of this dream to a higher consciousness.

No sex will be considered better than the other, or any role in society, when each individual is aware of his own or her own experience at many levels of society and in many roles. An open-ended consciousness will feel its connections with all other living beings. The continuity of consciousness will become apparent.

I hope I live long enough to experience some of this. And I'm sincerely hoping Seth didn't literally mean a new religion (hence his quotation marks) but rather a new consciousness and state of being. In my mind religion IS dogma, but maybe that's just me.

"No sex Will Be Considered Better than the other" means that it makes no sense to deal with if a third personality will be male or female. It will be perceived by the soul, not gender.

Ah! Excellent! That goes back to my question from a few days ago. Then I will not live long enough to see it happen, at least during this lifetime. Male dominance, prejudice, war are too engrained in the mass consciousness right now. It will take a while.

[sethspeaks]

"And the God he worshipped was both male and female."
It is written here:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2298142/first-ever-written-mention-of-jesus-confirmed-as-experts-say-2000-year-old-lead-tablets-found-in-remote-cave-are-genuine/amp/

[Batfan007]

Hi All,

Question: What's the opposite of "Dogma"?    Answer: Catma. 

I know, I know, that's really terrible but sometimes I just can't help myself. :)

Recently, I've seen some messages at this site where people have been talking about dogma. I found the following definition of dogma online from Wikipedia.

Dogma is a principle or set of principles laid down by an authority as incontrovertibly true. It serves as part of the primary basis of an ideology or belief system, and it cannot be changed or discarded without affecting the very system's paradigm, or the ideology itself.


I'd like to share some thoughts I had on the topic of Seth, Paul and Dogma.

To some degree, I think that what took place with the message of Jesus and Christianity, over the last 2,000 years, might be similar to what could also happen with the Seth information over the next 2,000 years.

In regards to this in, Seth Speaks, Chapter 21, Session 586, Seth says that, "When the historical Christ "died", Paul was to implement the spiritual ideas in physical terms, to carry on. In doing so however, he grew the seed of an organization that would smother the ideas."

In this same session, Seth also says this about Paul.

"This person had superior energy and power and great organizing abilities, but it was the errors that he made unwittingly that perpetuated some dangerous distortions."

"It was given to him to set up a framework. But it was to be a framework of ideas, not of regulations; of men, not of groups."



Now what I believe happened is this. Paul tried to figure out a way to pass along his ideas regarding the message of Jesus. Other people were also doing this at the same time. As an outcome of this, eventually various organizations were formed and from these organizations, various decisions were made as to what was the correct interpretation of Jesus's message and who was and who wasn't qualified to pass along this correct message.

Over time, some of these organizations attacked each other while others merged, changed and grew. Eventually the outcome of this was the Christian church. As the Christian Church merged, changed and evolved, the messages of Jesus also changed and some of them were discontinued. As a result of this, the message of the Christian church that is given today, may actually be very different from the original message that was given by Jesus.

Now, consider the various divergent views of the Seth information that are held by the various members of this forum. Next, consider how widely these views might change and grow over the next 100 years. Then consider how much more these views might change in the 400 years following this (that's 500 years into our future).  Next, consider how much more these views may actually change in the 1,500 years following this.

I think that if we were somehow able to travel forward, 2,000 years into the future, and if Seth's message had somehow managed to survive throughout all of that time, then, I think that it's quite possible that so many people would have interpreted Seth's message in so many different ways over all of this time, that we wouldn't even necessarily be able to recognize that message, as the message from Seth that we recognize today.

In addition to this, I'm not really sure that there is anything we can do about this.

Now, with this understanding, I'm also not really sure that there is anything we can do about preventing any dogma that either may or may not evolve with the Seth information in the future.

Any thoughts?

It's pretty much inevitable that all knowledge becomse distorted, which is we rely on those who have had genuine visions, trances, altered states of consciousness AND have gone a long way along the path of both Waking Up and Growing Up to teach us about these states, which then becomes dogma and new religions when people attempt to codify or write everything down as rules, precepts etc.

Then it starts all over again. Ad infinitum.

[Deb]

"And the God he worshipped was both male and female."
It is written here:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2298142/first-ever-written-mention-of-jesus-confirmed-as-experts-say-2000-year-old-lead-tablets-found-in-remote-cave-are-genuine/amp/

Thanks for that, I hadn't heard about those before. Very interesting. Controverted for a while as well. I ended up going to Wiki to read more about them. Up to 70 ring bound books made of lead and copper! The wiki hasn't been updated since 2012.

Your article is dated Nov. 30 2016 and says new testing confirms the age of the books. And this:

"The tablets suggest that Christ was not starting his own religion, but restoring a thousand-year-old tradition from the time of King David."

I wonder what that tradition was?

[Deb]

OK @sethspeaks I have to say you really piqued my interest. I just read this tonight:

"A part of the older tradition of the Temple was the Divine Feminine - known to Christians as the Holy Spirit. Jesus had women involved in his ministry.

At the height of his ministry, the gospels tell us that Jesus challenged the moneychangers in the temple.

The codices appear to reveal what happened afterwards - a chapter missing from the gospels.

It would appear that Christianity was founded upon what Jesus did in the temple: a place where many Jews believed God actually resided. Jesus went into the Temple to renew a covenant with God.

If the codices are genuine, as the metal and writing suggests they are, they provide new insight into the life of Christ.

While the codices do not contradict any of the established narrative they place greater emphasis on the physical temple, of the belief in the divine feminine and in Christ's role in protecting a lineage of Hebrews rather than being the founder of his own movement."

It's this type of stuff (finding the codices) that makes me wonder if that's Seth what said meant by things will be noticeably set in motion "by 2075."

[Batfan007]

OK @sethspeaks I have to say you really piqued my interest. I just read this tonight:

"A part of the older tradition of the Temple was the Divine Feminine - known to Christians as the Holy Spirit. Jesus had women involved in his ministry.

At the height of his ministry, the gospels tell us that Jesus challenged the moneychangers in the temple.

The codices appear to reveal what happened afterwards - a chapter missing from the gospels.

It would appear that Christianity was founded upon what Jesus did in the temple: a place where many Jews believed God actually resided. Jesus went into the Temple to renew a covenant with God.

If the codices are genuine, as the metal and writing suggests they are, they provide new insight into the life of Christ.

While the codices do not contradict any of the established narrative they place greater emphasis on the physical temple, of the belief in the divine feminine and in Christ's role in protecting a lineage of Hebrews rather than being the founder of his own movement."

It's this type of stuff (finding the codices) that makes me wonder if that's Seth what said meant by things will be noticeably set in motion "by 2075."

I don't know about the "physical temple" but I am curious if it ties in with the principles of Biogeometry and sacred geometry? if so, like the pyramids, the building(s) may have been constructed with particular angles, materials, blessing and such that user the occupants into various spiritual states, and would have been used as part of a living system of knowledge the way the sacred texts are living structures (buildings) in egypt that reflect as much as possible that the building occupies framework 1 and 2 at the same time, but unlike a regular nails, wood, metal, concrete building, is constructed with specific principles that align with the nature of our system of reality for particular effects. Here I am referring to true Spiritual Science as it was incorporated in many diverse ways in ancient cultures.

*
I'm thinking this month, or perhaps next to do a series of meditations for several weeks on Mary Magdalene, Divine Sophia and Pistis Sophia as I do like things in "3"s such as Seth/Jane/Rob or Batman/Superman/Wonder Woman, or Jung/Campbell/Lucas.
It would be to go with the books I have been reading recently and I feel that familiar yearning to stretch creatively in new directions...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pistis_Sophia

-*-
Wisdom 9:8New Revised Standard Version

"8 You have given command to build a temple on your holy mountain,
and an altar in the city of your habitation,
a copy of the holy tent that you prepared from the beginning."

**
Below is quote text from wikipedia page
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goddess_movement#Joseph_Campbell

Joseph Campbell[edit]

First broadcast on PBS in 1988 as a documentary interview with Bill Moyers, The Power of Myth, written by Joseph Campbell, was also released in the same year as a book created under the direction of the late Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis.[52] The Power of Myth links the image of the Earth or Mother Goddess to symbols of fertility and reproduction.[53][54] For example, Campbell states that, "There have been systems of religion where the mother is the prime parent, the source... We talk of Mother Earth. And in Egypt you have the Mother Heavens, the Goddess Nut, who is represented as the whole heavenly sphere".[55] Campbell continues by stating that the correlation between fertility and the Goddess found its roots in agriculture:

Bill Moyers: But what happened along the way to this reverence that in primitive societies was directed to the Goddess figure, the Great Goddess, the mother earth- what happened to that?

Joseph Campbell: Well that was associated primarily with agriculture and the agricultural societies. It has to do with the earth. The human woman gives birth just as the earth gives birth to the plants...so woman magic and earth magic are the same. They are related. And the personification of the energy that gives birth to forms and nourishes forms is properly female. It is in the agricultural world of ancient Mesopotamia, the Egyptian Nile, and in the earlier planting-culture systems that the Goddess is the dominant mythic form.[56]

Campbell also argues that the image of the Virgin Mary was derived from the image of Isis and her child Horus: "The antique model for the Madonna, actually, is Isis with Horus at her breast".[57]

According to Joseph Campbell,

"...half the people in the world think that the metaphors of their religious traditions, for example, are facts. And the other half contends that they are not facts at all. As a result we have people who consider themselves believers because they accept metaphors as facts, and we have others who classify themselves as atheists because they think religious metaphors are lies.[58]

One of these metaphors is Eve. Campbell argues that Christianity, originally a denomination of Judaism, embraced part of the Jewish pagan culture and the rib metaphor is an example of how distant the Jewish religion was from the prehistoric religion—the worship of the Mother Goddess or the Goddess.

EDIT: I listened to this podcast yesterday afternoon in full while on a walk. Interview with Tricia McCannon starts at 14:35. Stuff before that is some weird monologue from host.
Pretty interesting talk about Jesus and the Divine Feminine, I really enjoyed this talk and will be reading the book Tricia mentions in the podcast at some stage.



This site "Gnostic Society Library" has various text from the modern Nag Hammadi translations on the site, and  offers a good overview and introduction to the various moden books and translations of the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Nag Hammadi.

http://gnosis.org/welcome.html

This page has a good overview /intro to why these discoveries are significant, and some of the challenging societal implications of the discoveries.
http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/Pagels-Gnostic-Gospels.html


Above video is a short lecture on triads and trinities from Sophic point of view, and how that ties in with Jesus' teachings, and the distortions the Church propped up over time.
"Platonism and The Sophia of Jesus Christ - Nag Hammadi Library"

[Deb]

" Christ saw that in each person divinity ..."

I thought this video was timely, considering the time of year and all the talk about 2075 and imminent changes in consciousness.  " 'Truth force. Love force. Soul force.' [Ghandi] It is the inherent power in you to conjure the truth and the very best in other people. It is the power in you to change people's hearts and minds by changing the way you see them, by changing the way you observe them."  ~Garret John LoPorto

"When you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change." Max Plank

"Take a look at yourself, and then make a change
  Na na na, na na na, na na, na nah..."  Michael Jackson   

We have the power.

[sethspeaks]

Hi,
I agree that the Mother Earth is a significant symbol. Gnostic texts from Nag Hammadi also speaks of Mother Earth and the Father Sky. Even Seth somewhere talking about that through Christianity we know Father Sky, but on Mother Earth we forgot. But I still can not find the quote ... 

[Batfan007]

In some esoteric traditions there are the Indian termed "chakras" typically starting at the genitals, and moving up from there, belly, head, crown etc etc etc.

In other systems, we have more chakras, in particular one BELOW the feet, as in outside the body. This chakra is typically associated with the earth, and gaia, feminine. some of this more integrated teachings are coming out more and more from modern teachers, and the comment put forth is that the male dominated wisdom traditions did not want people acknowledging the below the feet chakra / earth/mother/divine feminine etc. So even in esoteric traditions we have sexism and censorship, propping up the dominance of male oriented culture and energy, and unbalancing of human beings who do not fully develop themselves, who may go further out of balance with distorted teachings etc.

[Deb]

I don't know about the "physical temple" but I am curious if it ties in with the principles of Biogeometry and sacred geometry?

Me either, and I know so little about the Bible that I probably shouldn't even be adding anything here. That's an interesting idea about the building having one foot in F1 and the other in F2. It was said that the face of God appeared in the temple. Hopefully not like a friend of mine who insists Jesus's face appears in her bedroom curtains when the sun comes up.

I did a quick search and found this page http://www.jesus-story.net/cleansing.htm which is pretty straightforward. Jesus was hugely upset by what he considered a most holy place of worship (Solomon's Temple) being turned into basically a three-ring circus:

"Jesus was outraged at a sacrilegious use of this place of prayer. He took sudden, dramatic action. It was not the animal vendors and money-changers he criticised as much as the Temple establishment who allowed it. The ruling priests, especially the high priest himself, gave permission for these commercial activities to take place. They were ultimately responsible for this desecration of a holy place."

I think I'll look into this temple a bit more, I'm curious about the "restoring a thousand year tradition." I'm trying to fit this new information in with what I've been thinking lately that Jesus was NOT trying to promote religion, hence why would he want to restore an old tradition? And why the anger? If he knew who he was, then all the rules and sacrifices and punishment of the religion at the time would not be in alignment with who I'm thinking he was. Jesus teaching his disciples the "higher mysteries" (your link below) makes more sense to me.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pistis_Sophia

Holy cosmos Batfan, where do you find this stuff? I went to the wiki and it is fascinating to me. It feels like the second two books could have been add-ons, considering some of it is about the 'right' way to think an behave and the exact punishment for not following the rules. It feels like part history, part mythology. Written for the people of the time.

I'm constantly amazed that ancient manuscripts have survived the centuries and occasionally turn up. I suppose the caves they've been stored in are practically sealed off from the elements. And, coincidentally, the perfect climate to preserve antiquities is located in an area where humans started out early on, at least according to science.

"The antique model for the Madonna, actually, is Isis with Horus at her breast".

I love all this information about Mother Earth, the history. I feel very connected with nature. This statement about the model for the Madonna image makes me think back to all the Christian holidays, symbols (and yes, metaphors) that were adopted from the pagans. Many Christians don't know about them. There are so many layers to dig through.

How do you manage to get so much reading in? I know you wrote about that at one time, but you must be some sort of speed reader.

HAH! I just went to post this and got a warning that you've posted something before me. I'll leave this as is and update if needed.

Even Seth somewhere talking about that through Christianity we know Father Sky, but on Mother Earth we forgot. But I still can not find the quote ...

I'd be interested in that too. I did a search on the sethtalks.com search engine but didn't come up with anything.

[sethspeaks]

Hi Deb,
I have it. Session 690:
"...Christ, as he is known historically, psychically represented man's probabilities. His theories and teachings could be interpreted in many ways; they stood for kernels that man could sow as he wished. Because of Christ, there was an England — and an Industrial Revo¬lution. The male aspects of Christ were the ones that Western civi¬lization emphasized. Other portions of his teachings did not follow the main line of Christian thought, and were buried.
The church ignored Christ's physical birth, for example, and made his mother an immaculate virgin, which meant that the consciousness of the species would for a longer time ignore its relationship with nature and its feminine aspects. I am speaking now of mainline West¬ern civilization. God the Father would be recognized and the Earth Goddess forgotten. ..."

[sethspeaks]

Hi All,
It took me about an hour to find this information. I have ES1-9, SS, TNPR, UR1, UR2, TNOP, TIATNOME, DEAVFV1, DEAVFV2, TMA, TWTH electronically. If you want to share with me this information write to seth-mluvi@seznam.cz     

[Batfan007]

I don't know about the "physical temple" but I am curious if it ties in with the principles of Biogeometry and sacred geometry?

Me either, and I know so little about the Bible that I probably shouldn't even be adding anything here. That's an interesting idea about the building having one foot in F1 and the other in F2. It was said that the face of God appeared in the temple. Hopefully not like a friend of mine who insists Jesus's face appears in her bedroom curtains when the sun comes up.


I did a quick search and found this page http://www.jesus-story.net/cleansing.htm which is pretty straightforward. Jesus was hugely upset by what he considered a most holy place of worship (Solomon's Temple) being turned into basically a three-ring circus:

"Jesus was outraged at a sacrilegious use of this place of prayer. He took sudden, dramatic action. It was not the animal vendors and money-changers he criticised as much as the Temple establishment who allowed it. The ruling priests, especially the high priest himself, gave permission for these commercial activities to take place. They were ultimately responsible for this desecration of a holy place."

I think I'll look into this temple a bit more, I'm curious about the "restoring a thousand year tradition." I'm trying to fit this new information in with what I've been thinking lately that Jesus was NOT trying to promote religion, hence why would he want to restore an old tradition? And why the anger? If he knew who he was, then all the rules and sacrifices and punishment of the religion at the time would not be in alignment with who I'm thinking he was. Jesus teaching his disciples the "higher mysteries" (your link below) makes more sense to me.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pistis_Sophia

Holy cosmos Batfan, where do you find this stuff? I went to the wiki and it is fascinating to me. It feels like the second two books could have been add-ons, considering some of it is about the 'right' way to think an behave and the exact punishment for not following the rules. It feels like part history, part mythology. Written for the people of the time.

I'm constantly amazed that ancient manuscripts have survived the centuries and occasionally turn up. I suppose the caves they've been stored in are practically sealed off from the elements. And, coincidentally, the perfect climate to preserve antiquities is located in an area where humans started out early on, at least according to science.

"The antique model for the Madonna, actually, is Isis with Horus at her breast".

I love all this information about Mother Earth, the history. I feel very connected with nature. This statement about the model for the Madonna image makes me think back to all the Christian holidays, symbols (and yes, metaphors) that were adopted from the pagans. Many Christians don't know about them. There are so many layers to dig through.

How do you manage to get so much reading in? I know you wrote about that at one time, but you must be some sort of speed reader.

HAH! I just went to post this and got a warning that you've posted something before me. I'll leave this as is and update if needed.

Even Seth somewhere talking about that through Christianity we know Father Sky, but on Mother Earth we forgot. But I still can not find the quote ...

I'd be interested in that too. I did a search on the sethtalks.com search engine but didn't come up with anything.

I read one thing which leads to another to another to another.
Before you know it you're down the rabbit hole and nothing makes any sense anymore. Then I take a break and eventually read some more mumbo-jumbo. Overall, with readings of more contemporary conservative stuff, middle ground stuff and wacky-woo-woo way out there stuff and there is something useful for me to learn in all of it.

But if some ancient alien race could live for millions of years by using gold, and humans to farm gold for them - well I don't for that kind of BS. Even IF it was remotely true, what difference does it make to me today? I mean it's just useless stories/information when I'm more interested in the feminine aspect of Jesus, both in his own teachings, in the more mystical ideas and teachings, and the incarnation of the divine feminine in the form of Mary Magdalene (again, assuming she existed in any way).

The thing to keep in context is that it is all a big drama, with things to learn from and make sense of. The pattern that keeps popping up for me personally is this gender imbalance, and the modern focus on re-embracing the forgotten / suppressed divine feminine in all of us that I personally feel is long overdue and necessary for good mental health.

All of these topics are still pretty new for me. I started reading some channelled texts about the essene group and mary magdalene a couple years ago, then in the last 12 months started more specifically looking into the Nag Hammadi and Dead Sea Scrolls, bought several books on that topic, and a few digital ones.

Now I am more specifically looking into the other side of Jesus, his better half in Mary Magdalene's ideas and teachings, which are rather obscure and we have only fragments of actual texts. The larger thing to me is really about the re-balancing of the individual and mass psyche of humanity, which loops back to Carl Jung who was a pioneer in his ideas of Anima and Animus, and Shadow material, Archetypes etc.


To me Jesus, Mary Magdalene and Joseph etc etc exist on several levels. As historical "people" of importance to many people, as dramatic characters in a divine play, and as non-physical entities, so to me there is always that "3" that trinity to any of the characters in the stories. Seth also mentions other lots of 3 such as the three Christ personalities, which comes back to his stuff on the pyramid nature of gestalts / entities etc.

As for where I find such stuff, I don't really, it's more like it finds me. I see a particular book title, or listen to an interview/podcast with an author, and I know usually right away whether their ideas resonate with my own or a gap in knowledge in some area I want to learn about. So their is intention there too.

Short answer is I just look on amazon and then see what other books people have also bought / similar stuff. But also I look up a particular topic, and then see what are the main books on that topic, and which one most appeals to me right now.


In the new year I'm going to make more effort to look up some works of art, and depictions of these characters, as having that image in my mind is good to meditate on as an object, and then also brings up all kinds of stuff in a simple and direct way that complements whatever I am reading. Doing that also gets me out of analytical indiana jones mode and into feeling sensing intuitive-receptive carl jung mode.

[Sena]

To me Jesus, Mary Magdalene and Joseph etc etc exist on several levels. As historical "people" of importance to many people, as dramatic characters in a divine play, and as non-physical entities, so to me there is always that "3" that trinity to any of the characters in the stories. Seth also mentions other lots of 3 such as the three Christ personalities, which comes back to his stuff on the pyramid nature of gestalts / entities etc.

John, that is interesting. I had difficulty making sense of pyramid gestalts. This links up with the other thread where we could consider the pyramid as a symbol.

[Batfan007]

To me Jesus, Mary Magdalene and Joseph etc etc exist on several levels. As historical "people" of importance to many people, as dramatic characters in a divine play, and as non-physical entities, so to me there is always that "3" that trinity to any of the characters in the stories. Seth also mentions other lots of 3 such as the three Christ personalities, which comes back to his stuff on the pyramid nature of gestalts / entities etc.

John, that is interesting. I had difficulty making sense of pyramid gestalts. This links up with the other thread where we could consider the pyramid as a symbol.

I'm using the term in a very general informal way, my understanding on this topic is very limited, and not specifically relevant to anything in the early set books on Jesus material, i'm purely talking about other non-seth books that I have been reading recently, but applying Seth principles to those books.

I am not using the "pyramid" as a symbol any more than Jane / Rob / Seth are symbols, it's more the nature of things, like for example our human body has two arms and two legs, we can see the body itself as a symbol, but factually it has two arms and two legs.
and so in the topics I'm looking into, at different times I look at different perspectives in a playful imaginative way, that slowly build into a larger simultaneous picture.
And in encountering any the "personalities" in thee dramas, be they literal or fiction, always remembering the multidimensional nature of all beings, not limiting myself to one finite perspective, but being open to whatever other material, ideas or perspectives may come to my attention in one way or another.

Perhaps I may write a short journal style piece of writing that gives my subjective experience of the day, or week, the processes I go through, and the "gaps" where all sort of intuitive leaps are made that are not obvious in a causal conversation.
A birds eye perhaps into my own inner processes as I go into new territory (for me).
**
In my writing on various topics, many things overlap. On the door to my study (where I write on the PC) I have these pictures of Batman, and they are all different contrasts, diff style, diff artists, different speakers, diff eras, and in the middle are two major female superhero characters, all three characters are archetypes.
The female aspect is not just pop-culture characters I like but the balancing of male/female energies within myself. The multiple perspectives, if you look at the photo below are there simultaneously, and form a larger impression of the overall personality of "batman" and his relationship to other larger than life figures, none of whom exist in a vacuum. To know ones contemporaries is to know oneself.
And as such with historical and religious figures, they become as multidimensional as we allow them to be within us, if we invite those perspectives and experiences into our hearts and souls, as living dynamic figures of mankind and womankinds great unlimited potentials.

In this example I hope you can see I am dealing with intuition and fuzzy edges rather than concrete facts etc. The magical approach to me is to be an artist of life, and not take things too seriously.

I put the second image in where you can see I added in the red lines, Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman are the holy trinity of DC comics, symbolically rather than literally, im not saying they are religious figures, but again using an example of the number three, if we go back to pre-christian times we can find examples of natural forces and things using the number four more commonly, and even in modern times we can look at Chinese beliefs that use 4 and 5 for elements etc, natural forces that are symbols of our material world, and the nature of consciousness and entities.
If anyone is wondering why Bill Murray is near the top of the door, well he I think he's earned it you'll agree.........but also because he is my favourite performer, incredibly funny, but with a depressing sadness to him also, which reflects my own character.

*click images to see full size version

[Deb]

I felt the need to tack this on here after John's post above about Pistis Sophia.

An interesting talk with J.J Hurtak and his ideas/ put forth in his version Greek gnostic text (translation and commentary) of the Pistis Sophia -

http://www.pistissophia.org/index.html





"Was there a secret marriage between Jesus and Mary Magdalene, or was Mary Magdalene one of the first feminist theologians of the New Testament period?  Did Jesus have female disciples? The book of Pistis Sophia reveals in its dialogue the true relationship between Jesus and Mary Magdalene. It portrays a deep spiritual relationship between the two, which is different from that suggested in Dan Brown's best-selling novel The Da Vinci Code, but is revealed in the Pistis Sophia. This book, whose title unites the Greek words for "Faith" and "Wisdom", was used as a sacred text by the early Coptic Church community of Egypt in the 2nd century AD.  Sophia (Wisdom) itself was regarded by the early Coptics as a female presence who undergoes the experience of transgression and redemption in her path to full participation in the many universes, in conjunction with the Christ."

[Batfan007]

It was a good talk that one, Hurtak's translation looks to be different than the one I already got by Mead, and looks to be a more mystical-inspired commentary.
I will be reading it in the new year but it is a bit pricey. I was hoping to find one cheaper, but it is 900 pages, so not too unreasonable. I hope it is as decent as reviews suggest.
The interview i downloaded and listened to as audio only on my ipod, interesting stuff, but the interviewer has a really camp tone to their voice, which I found distracting!