~Speaking of Seth~

Seth said we can change our past from our present, and use this ability to heal cancer, for example. How then can I change certain unsatisfactory things due to the past that are much less severe than cancer?

For example, I have books and documents that are frayed or worn at the edges because I put them in my bag. I should have wrapped the book covers with a plastic book wrap and placed the paper documents in a hard, protective folder to prevent fraying. But I procrastinated and gradually these things happened.

Another similar incident happened when I had documents on my table and had meals on the same table. I thought the documents would be safe as long as I was careful during eating but it turned out the documents were splattered with grease from my food. This could have been avoided had I just moved the documents away but I procrastinated and I was thinking too optimistically and overestimated my ability.

So how could I erase these imperfect things from the past and heal myself from these imperfections?

And Seth said our beliefs create our reality, but my overly optimistic beliefs did not prevent the greasy splatter from happening. And when I was having those overly optimistic beliefs, it was not apparent to me that those beliefs would not manifest themselves in the way I wanted them to. I have difficulty discerning which of my beliefs would manifest and which of them are actually false (in the sense that they are not actually what they seem to be).

Also, if I couldn't revert my books and documents to their undamaged condition, if I have to live with my mistakes, then it seems that I have to be constantly on guard and be vigilant of my every action. That means I couldn't relax myself and put things off to a later time to do. And that would turn me into some OCD freak, which is a tiring way to live.

"A new belief in the present, however, can cause changes in the past on a neuronal level. You must understand that basically time is simultaneous. Present beliefs can indeed alter the past. In some cases of healing, in the spontaneous disappearance of cancer, for instance, or of any other disease, certain alterations are made that affect cellular memory, genetic codes, or neuronal patterns in the past."
—NoPR Chapter 14: Session 654, April 9, 1973

Quote from: happiness
...the documents were splattered with grease from my food. This could have been avoided had I just moved the documents away but I procrastinated and I was thinking too optimistically and overestimated my ability...

...And Seth said our beliefs create our reality, but my overly optimistic beliefs did not prevent the greasy splatter from happening...

...if I have to live with my mistakes, then it seems that I have to be constantly on guard and be vigilant of my every action. That means I couldn't relax myself and put things off to a later time to do. And that would turn me into some OCD freak, which is a tiring way to live.

I would suggest that the key belief here is not that you are thinking too optimistically, but rather that doing something as simple as moving a document away from your food would turn you into "some OCD freak". Which is the more "tiring way to live", doing the simple things that prevent avoidable mishaps or having the mishaps? You will always have the choice, and the mishaps are lessons, whether listened to or not.

Quote from: LarryH
I would suggest that the key belief here is not that you are thinking too optimistically, but rather that doing something as simple as moving a document away from your food would turn you into "some OCD freak". Which is the more "tiring way to live", doing the simple things that prevent avoidable mishaps or having the mishaps? You will always have the choice, and the mishaps are lessons, whether listened to or not.

I didn't notice the documents were there until after I started eating fried chicken with my bare hands. I could either stop eating halfway immediately and wash my hands thoroughly with soap and dry them and then move the documents away, or I could just continue eating. I was very hungry and tired at that time. So the first option was more tiring. It had so many steps involved. You know, sometimes, after a long day, you just want to eat, and chill out, and sleep. You have got to be an OCD freak to some degree to choose the first option.

So I would modify my comment to say that not putting the documents where you eat in the first place would be a rather simple mindful thing to do that does not rise to the level of OCD freakishness. And by the way, what is freakish about OCD? There is nothing wrong with a little OCD, and we are talking about very little - in fact, I would not even categorize that level of mindfulness as approaching OCD.

Quote from: happiness
So how could I erase these imperfect things from the past and heal myself from these imperfections?

I think we are here to learn a LOT of stuff. It's never ending. I'm assuming that your frayed books and blemished documents are teaching you how to prevent doing that again, since that seems important to you.

Compared to the hefty lessons some other people go through, I'd say you're doing pretty well if that's a thorn in your side. In your Seth quote, he's talking about how something like cancer in the body can be "undone" by changing beliefs. Spontaneous remissions or recoveries from illnesses. On the other, I suppose there is a probable you who has pristine books. Is there a way to go back in time and switch places with that other you? It seems Seth said that's possible, but I can't figure out how to do it. Or maybe I do it all the time, and just don't know it. This made me wonder about my disappearing/reappearing book story and if it's related. I wish I could ask Seth.

My most cherished books are in shambles, but that's why I buy some books rather than get them at the library. Such as my copy of The Nature of Personal Reality. The cover is frayed and rubbed off in some areas. Pages are yellowing, dog-eared, sticky noted, highlighted and underlined in many colors in pen, pencil, highlighters. Some marginalia. Speckled with Phở, with some pages warped from bath water. It looks loved, kind of like when you see a small child with a favorite stuffed animal: torn and mended, threadbare, patches, missing an eye maybe.

Oh, and while it's wonderful to be the best we can be, I think perfect is unobtainable. Otherwise we wouldn't be here. I think a lot of us don't realize how much good we do, and how good we are. We tend to focus on what we consider our flaws. And we'll always find something to beat ourselves up with. Most of us were raised with that thinking, probably rooted in religion (and control).

Have you read this? https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?topic=15 This is the kind of stuff we don't hear often enough.

I'm attaching a photo of a random page from my NoPR. I can almost hear you grinding your teeth over it, lol.

Quote from: Deb
I'm attaching a photo of a random page from my NoPR. I can almost hear you grinding your teeth over it, lol.

I don't really react negatively to what someone else did to his book. And if you were to gift it to me, I wouldn't be as bothered by its condition (although I would prefer a pristine one if given a choice). So I guess what bothers me is the fact that I bought the book in a pristine condition but I failed to keep it that way. I am blaming myself, because had I took more effort to care for it, it wouldn't be ruined. It was something avoidable but I feel that I didn't do my best. But on the flip side, I was probably very much bothered by other "more important" things at that time to the extent that I felt overwhelmed and became paralysed to act on simple things like wrapping the book cover.

But I would feel better if I choose to believe that I did the best I could given the circumstances in the past, and if I interpret those fraying and blemishes as pieces of art that encapsulate and portray my past self, and my trials and tribulations.

Or maybe I am just romanticising my mistakes, shunning away from my responsibilities, failing to learn and grow up? We all prefer a book in pristine condition, don't we? How, then, do we deal with imperfections? Should we grow up and learn to accept them, like how people learn and accept that "the world is not all rosy", "you can't always get what you want", "life isn't fair", "you can't have your cake and eat it too", etc?

Quote from: Deb
I'm assuming that your frayed books and blemished documents are teaching you how to prevent doing that again, since that seems important to you.

But this isn't the first time these things happened. That's why I am blaming myself.

On the other hand, if we create our reality, then, rather than learning to prevent fraying and blemishes, wouldn't we rather create a world where fraying and blemishes undo themselves, a world where mundane chores like cleaning would either be unnecessary or automated or easily accomplished by casting a magic spell?

If we learn to accept a world with imperfections, and learn to accept these imperfections, then would it be ok for someone to learn to live in a dirty, unhygienic environment? I mean, where do we draw the line with regards to accepting imperfections? If someone treats all the dust and dirt he has as an art piece portraying his past and memories, would it be alright to stay dirty? Could this be the reason why we create dust and dirt in our world? And if things naturally and spontaneously get dusty and dirty over time, then should we just let go and stop resisting the natural flow and just let things deteriorate? If we constantly need to exert effort to keep things clean and orderly, then wouldn't it be less tiring to just stop cleaning and just allow things to go as they naturally would? It seems that cleaning and protecting things in their pristine condition are unnatural and strenuous. You have to spend quite a significant amount of effort to keep things in order.

Another similar idea is the idea that it takes great discipline to become a better version of yourself. It contains the idea that having good manners and following good social etiquette are unnatural and exhausting.

Quote from: LarryH
So I would modify my comment to say that not putting the documents where you eat in the first place would be a rather simple mindful thing to do that does not rise to the level of OCD freakishness. And by the way, what is freakish about OCD? There is nothing wrong with a little OCD, and we are talking about very little - in fact, I would not even categorize that level of mindfulness as approaching OCD.

There are times when I don't feel like doing the dishes immediately after eating. But this would attract flies and cockroaches. So having this level of mindfulness seems tiring and approaching OCD to me. It is tiring because you have to force yourself to wash the dishes even when you don't feel like doing so, and it's OCD because you have to do the dishes immediately 100% of the time to prevent any mishaps that could otherwise happen if you don't do it immediately.

The thing about OCD is it's giving me insomnia. I don't brush my teeth every night I go to bed. There are times when I'm sleepy and tired and just fell asleep naturally. But I also tried being OCD, forcing myself awake to brush my teeth and applying the night-time skin-care routine I prefer. But after doing all these, I no longer feel sleepy and have difficulty falling asleep. So from my experience, I learn that I have to make use of the opportunity when I am feeling sleepy to fall asleep. If I force myself awake, I would miss this opportunity and I may only get to sleep the next day.

happiness, I had the same problem of not feeling like brushing my teeth just before going to bed (although I always did anyway). My solution was to brush my teeth earlier in the evening when I was wide awake. That had the additional benefit of reducing the temptation to indulge in late-night snacks. Maybe that could work for you. My experience of doing the dishes is that if I'm already clearing the table and bringing the dishes to the sink, it is less work to just do the dishes then than to put it off until I "feel like doing the dishes", which is never. But back to beliefs, I see a pattern in your thoughts: you seem to categorize your choices into extreme opposites, or perhaps more accurately, one of the "opposites" is common sense, but you label it as freakishly OCD. By labeling one option as an extreme (a belief), you set things up to fail in some manner. Ironically, you appear to be obsessive compulsive about avoiding OCD.

Quote from: happiness
We all prefer a book in pristine condition, don't we?

Maybe not. I buy used books and as long as they are readable I'm fine with that. If I love the book (such as any Seth book I've ever bought), I know it's going to end up looking like that photo I put up anyway. I also like reading other peoples' marginalia.

Quote from: happiness
If we learn to accept a world with imperfections, and learn to accept these imperfections, then would it be ok for someone to learn to live in a dirty, unhygienic environment? I mean, where do we draw the line with regards to accepting imperfections? If someone treats all the dust and dirt he has as an art piece portraying his past and memories, would it be alright to stay dirty?

The way I see it, in the big picture of our existence on Earth, there is no "one" right or wrong way to be, everything and everyone serves a purpose here. We are individuals and we DO make our own reality, and have free will to make personal choices. If they turn out to be "bad" choices that affect our health and way of life, we are responsible to make changes. Or choose not to and suffer the consequences. Our societies (mass consciousness) have standards that generally set a median range of acceptable behavior, but while there's a lot of variety in that box, not everyone fits in it. When bad hygiene starts to affect an individual's or other people's quality of life and safety, when someone goes way out of the norm, then I think the mass (in the form of other people and our elected authorities) will step in and intervene. Lots of opportunities for (subconsciously agreed to) dramas.

Since l personally wouldn't want to live the way some people do, in dirty and unhygienic ways, I don't associate with those people. I guess sort of like Seth says that someone who does not want to be involved in a natural disaster will not be personally affected by one.

Quote from: happiness
Another similar idea is the idea that it takes great discipline to become a better version of yourself. It contains the idea that having good manners and following good social etiquette are unnatural and exhausting.

We all choose what's most important to us, we all have our "things". When I was a young wife and mother, I tended to run a fairly tight ship as far as my home due to what I was taught what was "right". I have relaxed my standards now that I'm an empty-nester, no longer have a house full of pets and neighbor kids, and I no longer feel like a slug if there's some dust or fingerprints around or things are a little out of order. I haven't been out on the roof to wash windows in years. I now find other things more important than keeping a perfectly tidy house, such as getting outdoors to work in the garden, go for a bike ride, read, or post on this forum.

Quote from: happiness
But this isn't the first time these things happened. That's why I am blaming myself.

On the other hand, if we create our reality, then, rather than learning to prevent fraying and blemishes, wouldn't we rather create a world where fraying and blemishes undo themselves, a world where mundane chores like cleaning would either be unnecessary or automated or easily accomplished by casting a magic spell?

I don't think the goal here is to create a perfect world with a magic wand, we are here to learn and we need challenges in order to learn. It seems like in the non-physical, such as Framework 2, instant creation is possible. Here, we are learning how to manipulate.

Quote from: happinessSo I guess what bothers me is the fact that I bought the book in a pristine condition but I failed to keep it that way. I am blaming myself, because had I took more effort to care for it, it wouldn't be ruined.

In this physical world, I don't think anything stays pristine. People age, material objects age or wear out... Under normal conditions your book pages would yellow over time even if you never touched them. The glue in the binding will dry out and become brittle. Covers would fade.

If pristine books (or anything else) are something that are that important to you, maybe you need to step back and stop blaming yourself (just accept responsibility, it has less sting to it) and try to figure out why you're might be unconsciously sabotaging your priorities. What lesson are you trying to learn? Thankfully there are plenty of opportunities during each lifetime to repeat some actions until we learn the lesson.

How's this?

"You must understand the nature of reality before you manipulate within it intelligently and well. In this environment and in physical reality, you are learning... you are supposed to be learning... that your thoughts have reality and that you create the reality that you know. [...] If you still do not realize that you create the reality that you know, then you return and again you learn to manipulate and again and again you see the results of your own inner reality as you meet it objectified. You teach yourself the lesson until you have learned it. And when you have learned it, then you have begun to learn how to handle the consciousness that is yours intelligently and well. [...]"
—TES9 ESP Class Notes May 20, 1969

Hi Happiness,

The best definition of Responsibility I've found is this, it's simply our ability to Respond to a situation.
I used to think, and probably still do at times, that responsibility meant doing the right things all the time.

But who's right and what is the right thing? According to who? And whose definition? Seems to me a person could get lost in someone's else's subjective definition of the right thing.

Not to mention, doing the right thing at all times, is beyond exhaustive, depending on whose definition one is going by.

My Mom for example was so into perpetual cleaning that the proverbial white glove test was a complete joke.
Just cause you can't see germs doesn't mean they aren't there. 
Family members refused to come over after she covered the furniture in clear plastic, to help keep it clean.
I think I spent longer than I should have trying to live up to that example. Honestly, 8 hours every other day is hardly enough time to keep a house truly clean.


Now I live with what is comfortable to me. The dishes usually get done. There's no day to day guarantee about that. 
Same goes for anything else. My possessions serve me, not me them.  Comfort and reasonably clean is my rule.

If the book covers remind you more of how you failed to take care of them; then why not turn it into an Art project and recover them?

Can you access a type writer, or computer and redo the document that is in question? Or take it to a copy machine and get a new copy?

That way you can look at it as you cared enough about them to make them as good, if not better than they were?

Wanting a book to be pristine sounds kind of OCD to me.

Deb, the photo of your book is beautiful. It expresses how much you love it.

Quote from: Deb
In this physical world, I don't think anything stays pristine. People age, material objects age or wear out... Under normal conditions your book pages would yellow over time even if you never touched them. The glue in the binding will dry out and become brittle. Covers would fade.

I am comfortable with a book naturally deteriorating on its own. My issue is with the damages caused by my non-action. If the wear out is part of the unavoidable, natural evolution of things, then I alright with it. But it bugs me when the incident is avoidable. The damaged book is saying to me this bad thing wouldn't have happened if I had took more care in the first place. It becomes a reminder of my past imperfections. But if a book yellows over time, it is not a result of my fault and so I can have peace with it.

I decided to sit down and read the pages I spontaneously picked in the attached image above, wondering if there was anything pertinent to this discussion. There are a few gems:

One of all-time my favorites, because it's so practical: "even false beliefs will seem to be justified in terms of physical data, since your experience in the outside world is the materialization of those beliefs."

Also: "You must be convinced that you can alter your beliefs. You must be willing to try."

"If you think that limiting thoughts are a portion of you, permanently attached therefore, you will not think of washing them off."

"There is no contradiction, though there may seem to be, between spontaneously being aware of your thoughts, and examining them.

"(11:10) Many beliefs would automatically fall away quite harmlessly if you were being truly spontaneous."

So in that light, I've gotten the impression that you believe/feel you are a bad, imperfect or defective person because you feel responsible for damage to the books and papers. You seem to be "defending" this belief pretty vigorously. That's your belief, it doesn't seem to be the belief of anyone else here.

I still think it would do you good to step back and take a look at your beliefs about yourself and your care of the books. Try to take an objective look at what you are wanting to learn, why you believe what you believe about yourself and the books. Beliefs usually came from outside sources (parents, school, religion, culture) that we adopted when we were young and didn't know to question what we were told was "the" truth. Books can be replaced if need be. Also going back to the magic spell issue, if people could do that all the time, they would do any reckless thing that crossed their minds knowing they could undo it. There would be no progress—we learn from mistakes. Truthfully, I prefer to learn from other people's mistakes.

Anticipating wear and tear on things also takes foresight. Foresight for the most part comes from experience. We can't blame ourselves for things we don't know. Maybe you could not anticipate the wear on the books, or maybe you could not anticipate your extreme value of them now. You may be in a different "place" now than you were when you first had the book—older, wiser, more responsible. And I'm using the books as an example right now, this could involve many other situations.

Quote from: LarryH
Deb, the photo of your book is beautiful. It expresses how much you love it.

Thanks Larry. I think of book wear sort of like patina on old furniture. It's a badge of honor for the book. Any books that I own that are in pristine condition tells me I didn't like them, so never got past the first few pages. They look desolate and end up being donated.

Hi All,

There is another option here. Positive expectation.

It is possible to hold a belief and have a positive expectation that when books are carried in a bag, for example, the books won't fray. It is also possible to have an experience that even though the books were carried in a bag, the books didn't fray.



TES2, Session 81 (the Bold font at the end of this quote is mine.)

(This car incident discussed by Seth refers to one I had forgotten already, though at the time it affected me strongly; and as I look back upon it, I recall it was the main reason for my own experiment with the car's oil consumption.

(It took place on Friday afternoon. We were due to leave on vacation Saturday morning. As a precaution I took the car to our regular gas station and left it for an oil change. This was at 1 PM; I was due to pick it up at five, then meet Jane at the gallery to drive her home.

(Walking down to the garage at the appointed time, I saw the car still up on the lift. The assistant mechanic told me there was something wrong with the filter cap and that it could not be tightened sufficiently to prevent an oil leak. His boss was busy and asked me to stop back later, after he'd had a chance to look at the car. Of course I realized how Jane would feel if we could not leave on vacation in the morning should the car not be ready. Watching the assistant, as he struggled to tighten the cap, I had the distinct feeling he didn't know too well what he was doing, and that the amount of force he was using could strip the threads and really delay the trip if a new part had to be found, then replaced. It meant dismantling part of the steering mechanism.

(Making my feelings plain, I thought, without saying much actually, I left the garage and walked down to tell Jane, who by now had left the gallery and was waiting for me outside. I had time during the walk to give some thought to using positive expectation, but had not calmed down enough to try it effectively. Jane immediately announced that the car would be ready when we went back for it, and asked me not to think about it while we went out for supper.

(We ate quietly and slowly, then walked back up to the garage. While two blocks away, I thought I could see a blue and white car parked outside it. Jane said it was our car, though I was sure she could not see it, actually, well enough to know for sure. But it was our car, ready for us. Jane told me then that all through the meal, she had concentrated as hard as she could on the fact that the car would be fixed and waiting for us. She was, she said, determined to go on vacation Saturday morning.)


TES5, Session 222

(The 220th session, containing Seth's advice, was held while the car was in the garage the first time. After the session I made a conscious effort to improve my attitude about the car. By then I had the idea that psychological attitudes could affect the car, and had recalled that once before Seth had dealt with the car and our attitudes while on our way to a Maine vacation in August 1964. See the 80-81st sessions. According to Seth, Jane and I had succeeded in altering considerably the car's oil consumption; and as evidence we had before us the fact that the car had used much less oil on the trip than we had calculated. See Volume 2.)


-jbseth

Nice! An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure!

It certainly makes a good case for being aware of and cleaning up our thoughts. And it's also a good thing that there is a delay in manifestation here, unlike in F2 where creation is instantaneous.

Quote from: jbseth
There is another option here. Positive expectation.

It is possible to hold a belief and have a positive expectation that when books are carried in a bag, for example, the books won't fray. It is also possible to have an experience that even though the books were carried in a bag, the books didn't fray.

I was having positive expectation when I had my meals next to my documents. I was having positive expectation when I put my books in my bag without a protective cover. But why did I fail whereas Jane succeeded?

Seth is basically saying because Jane wanted things to be done her way, the Universe gave it to her. But I also wanted things to be done my way, why didn't the Universe give it to me?

Hi happiness,

I don't believe that anyone but you, can determine why you didn't get what you wanted. Here's why.


For one thing, people have vastly different definitions of what they mean when they say that they've had a "positive expectation experience".

For one person this might mean that they focused positively on an issue, one time and one time only, for about 1 minute.  For another person, this might mean that they focused positively on an issue almost every day, for 10 minutes a day, for several weeks or several months.

These 2 types of experiences are very different from each other and the first person may not have done enough to create the result that they desired.


In addition to having a "positive expectation experience" there also seems to be an issue of "not having a negative expectation experience" that's tied into this.


For some people, they might continuously dwell upon the possibility that the books in the bag will become frayed for example.  For others, they may have never have once dwelled upon the possibility that the books would become frayed. 

These 2 types of experiences are also very different from each other. The first person, by continuously dwelling upon the book fray issue, may have actually done more work to bring about the book fraying results, than any positive expectation experience did to prevent it.


Finally, along with this, each person carries their own set of personal beliefs. Some of these personal beliefs, may be in conflict with a person's positive expectations. Furthermore, some of these conflicting beliefs may also be overshadowed by other beliefs, such that these conflicting belief are not readily apparent.

You are the only person who knows what kinds of personal beliefs, conflicting beliefs, if any, and hidden beliefs, if any, that you have, and this is the reason why I don't think anyone else here can help you determine why you didn't get what you wanted.


-jbseth

Really nicely said, jbseth, you really covered that in a clear way. It brought to mind several quotes I came across recently that are related to why we sometimes don't get what we want. Here are just two of them:

"...Now, it does no good to take ten minutes a day and give yourself good suggestions and say, "I am brave, I am strong, I am healthy and young and rich" and spend the rest of the time saying to yourself, "I am poor, I am getting old, I feel sore, or it is a cruddy world." Therefore, often you allow these thoughts to take all of your conscious attention."
—TECS2 ESP Class Session, July 21, 1970

"When the intellect is used properly, it thinks of a goal and automatically sets the body in motion toward it, and automatically arouses the other levels of communication unknown to it, so that all forces work together toward the achievement.

"Consider the hypothetical goal as a target. When properly used, the intellect imagines the target and imaginatively then attains it. If it were a physical target, the person would stand (bow and) arrow in hand, thinking only of hitting the bull's eye, mentally concentrating upon it...

"When the intellect is improperly used, however, it is as if the intellect feels required to somehow know or personally direct all of those inner processes. When the erroneous belief systems and negativity connected with so-called rational reason apply, then it is as if our person sees the target, but instead of directing his attention to it he concentrates upon all of the different ways that his arrow could go wrong...

"He has switched his attention from the target, of course, completely. He has projected upon the present event the picture of his fears, rather than the picture of his original intent."
—The Magical Approach, Session Five

Quote from: jbseth
You are the only person who knows what kinds of personal beliefs, conflicting beliefs, if any, and hidden beliefs, if any, that you have, and this is the reason why I don't think anyone else here can help you determine why you didn't get what you wanted.

I agree, know thyself. We all have our own unique and personal beliefs and we need to figure those out ourselves, and also be more aware of our thoughts. Seth would often explain to Jane and Rob why things turned out or didn't turn out the way they did for them, but he had special insight into their personalities. They were fortunate.