~Speaking of Seth~

Hello,

I was wondering if Seth had anything to say about getting back at people?  On the one hand, revenge can be satisfying, but not as satisfying as letting karma do its job.  Other the other hand, some say the best revenge is living well. 

I think I remember Seth saying something like one should turn the other cheek, while not thinking any less of the person who hurt you.

What do the people here think, what's your usual response to getting hurt?  They shut down all the nice Q&A forums, now I'm looking for a new place to talk to intelligent people.

Thanks for your thoughts!

I suggest if you feel that strongly someone has wronged you then this worksheet could help. This is Byron Katie.

To me revenge is holding onto what does not serve you constructively. You are holding onto it with dear life instead of recognizing how you had a part in it and attracted the lesson. Tit for tat can go on and on forever lol Is that what you want?


People live in states. States of mind. Behaviours can be icky but it is merely a state of mind.

We live with mind maps and some expect people to do what we think they should do. That is called slavery and I think we have all been down this road until we realize we have been dictators.

How do you know they should be doing such and such? What if they are on the best path to landing them in an even greater expansion. People's life paths are theirs. Not ours.


When you are ready and may want to try something to help let go of anger or being wronged you can if you want, try this out.

This was posted a few days ago by a forum member and I think... it is helpful here.
https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=22758

Taking revenge on someone. Hmmm. Seth didn't have a lot to say about revenge, but he would probably call it a violation, lol.  https://nowdictation.com/q/revenge/  "Violation" is another good word to search on the Seth Search Engine. I don't know if your familiar with it, but it's amazingly useful. The only drawback I see is that only portions of sessions are quoted to avoid copyright infringement problems. So there will be entire paragraphs missing... it's helpful to then look at the entire session if you have the book.

Seth DID say that having vengeful thoughts could be helpful though:

• "Your systems of belief will of course attract certain kinds of thoughts, with their trails of emotional experience. A steady barrage of hateful, revengeful thoughts should actually lead you to look for the beliefs from which they are gaining their strength."

• "The "negative" subjective and objective events that you meet are meant to make you examine the contents of your own conscious mind. In their way the hateful or revengeful thoughts are natural therapeutic devices, for if you follow them, accepting them with their own validity as feelings, they will automatically lead you beyond themselves; they will change into other feelings, carrying you from hatred into what may seem to be the quicksands of fear — which is always behind hatred."

—NoPR Part Two: Chapter 11: Session 644, February 28, 1973

I remember Seth saying to beat a pillow up until it is all out of you. If you feel you want to beat someone up. lol

"I have told you before, however, that there is never any justification for violence. There is never any justification for threats. It makes no difference whether or not you think that the end justifies the means because it does not.

The means creates the end.

And if the means are violent, the ends are violent.

None of you—none of you—including our profound Dean, solidly understands what I am trying to tell you. I hope you shall some day.

You create your own physical reality!

Each of you individually creates the reality that you know—and en masse, altogether, you create the reality of your world and your universe. There is no good within it in which you do not participate—and there is no evil within it in which you do not participate—and in which you have no part.

Now this is practical and it is the only real practicality. For if you hate, you create a hateful reality. And to the extent that you hate, you find reality hateful. To the extent that you fear, you create a fearful reality. To the extent that you love, you create a lovely reality. To the extent that you create, you create a reality full of creativity—and this is my message."
—ECS1 ESP Class Session, April 22, 1969

Some statements in the " Nature of personal reality " book about hate are confusing to me , like " Even your hateful fantasies, left alone , will return you to a reconciliation and release love " . Like he has implied before in the book  that if you trust in your inner self , there is like a system of balances and checks that will correct themselves if left alone , if i understood it correctly. But my experiences with thoughts or emotions that are left alone is that they don't go away , or correct themselves , even ones from a long time ago , they still pop up the same even years later , if not different than before , almost like they morphed into something else.
                                                                                            Also there is a statement like , " A fantasy of beating a parent or child , even to death , will if followed through , lead to tears and understanding." I'm guessing here that he is not implying one following through physically with the fantasy , but perhaps examining/following through the fantasy mentally , but it is still a strange statement and can be misleading if not understood.
                                                                                             One thing about quoting some of these statements though , is that its hard to see the whole context that it is in because there is a lot of other stuff around it.

@raz

Yes the context is so very important. That is why we always harp on having the location of quoted data. So we can look it up and see the context and have discussions.

Some of us folks use different tools. I too require more resources than to follow certain "fantasies". I can be quite a trickster to my self! lol

When I can not follow the thought process and get to love I recognize self hatred or some other self thing. And that is not something our outer ego self has been trained to do! Look in mirror? Bahhhhh

So I use other tools also. Seth teaches us, to WRITE down our beliefs about something. To look it over after and see where we contradict ourselves. We are our own best hypnotist hands down.

There is a reason for writing them down. Instead of thinking them through only. Because.... there is a strong bond to yourself and to look at your writing is to look at your conscious contents.

"Consciousness is where you are looking." Says Seth and quite a few other teachers I have come across.

Writing them down not just once, but at different days so you see one day you feel softer and other days harsher and other days contradictory. Or what have ya.

The important thing about the worksheet link above for ME is that I have one hell of a time tricking myself by editing what I write! It is practically non existent to ignore my truest emotions using that exercise!

Our inner conversations ...must be questioned..... if we are to find solutions.

You relive events everytime you throw it back in your face.

We have hypnotized ourselves to stay in a state of mind because we ARE getting something from it. I can not begin to stress the importance of finding out what we are getting from it. It could be anything and inner wars belong on paper.

Manifest those inner conversations or the inner pictures of your mind into the physical world by putting them down on paper. And seeing them for what they are.

Following your thoughts about beating a child or parent will ultimately lead you to .... what? Police, funerals, jail, the loss of freedom, guilt, being alone in a cell with who knows who, the loss of never seeing them again, proving certain falsities to yourself, eventually to the love etc etc

What is it about having those fantasies that keeps you having them? What are you getting from it?

(I am not saying you have them but it was used as an example so I too use it as the example)

Something is always there that leads to the fantasy. Any fantasy. Thoughts can trigger it. It could happen so fast you did not even notice it hypnotizing you.

There is nothing bad about us caring for ourselves, so much so that we are our own best friend and we have a heart to heart with ourself like we would anyone we cared about.

When Seth was discussing fantasies in the book you are correct. He didnt mean follow through physically, he was continuing on with the topic of following your thoughts about the fantasies.

As far as following a fantasy of hatred or violence to lead you to love:
It is perfectly okay for one way to work for you and another not work. It is perfectly okay for it to not work now and does work later. It is perfectly okay for it to work in small doses.

It is not always easy to arrive at love when you are missing out on self love. This is why I use a particular exercise coupled with Seth.

Hate contracts you, you literally shrink. Love expands you, you are forever becoming more.

Period 🙂

Quote from: strangerthings on June 04, 2022, 02:32:14 PM@raz

Yes the context is so very important. That is why we always harp on having the location of quoted data. So we can look it up and see the context and have discussions.

Some of us folks use different tools. I too require more resources than to follow certain "fantasies". I can be quite a trickster to my self! lol

When I can not follow the thought process and get to love I recognize self hatred or some other self thing. And that is not something our outer ego self has been trained to do! Look in mirror? Bahhhhh

So I use other tools also. Seth teaches us, to WRITE down our beliefs about something. To look it over after and see where we contradict ourselves. We are our own best hypnotist hands down.

There is a reason for writing them down. Instead of thinking them through only. Because.... there is a strong bond to yourself and to look at your writing is to look at your conscious contents.

"Consciousness is where you are looking." Says Seth and quite a few other teachers I have come across.

Writing them down not just once, but at different days so you see one day you feel softer and other days harsher and other days contradictory. Or what have ya.

The important thing about the worksheet link above for ME is that I have one hell of a time tricking myself by editing what I write! It is practically non existent to ignore my truest emotions using that exercise!

Our inner conversations ...must be questioned..... if we are to find solutions.

You relive events everytime you throw it back in your face.

We have hypnotized ourselves to stay in a state of mind because we ARE getting something from it. I can not begin to stress the importance of finding out what we are getting from it. It could be anything and inner wars belong on paper.

Manifest those inner conversations or the inner pictures of your mind into the physical world by putting them down on paper. And seeing them for what they are.

Following your thoughts about beating a child or parent will ultimately lead you to .... what? Police, funerals, jail, the loss of freedom, guilt, being alone in a cell with who knows who, the loss of never seeing them again, proving certain falsities to yourself, eventually to the love etc etc

What is it about having those fantasies that keeps you having them? What are you getting from it?

(I am not saying you have them but it was used as an example so I too use it as the example)

Something is always there that leads to the fantasy. Any fantasy. Thoughts can trigger it. It could happen so fast you did not even notice it hypnotizing you.

There is nothing bad about us caring for ourselves, so much so that we are our own best friend and we have a heart to heart with ourself like we would anyone we cared about.

When Seth was discussing fantasies in the book you are correct. He didnt mean follow through physically, he was continuing on with the topic of following your thoughts about the fantasies.

As far as following a fantasy of hatred or violence to lead you to love:
It is perfectly okay for one way to work for you and another not work. It is perfectly okay for it to not work now and does work later. It is perfectly okay for it to work in small doses.

It is not always easy to arrive at love when you are missing out on self love. This is why I use a particular exercise coupled with Seth.

Thanks for reply , it's not about having any of the fantasies , its just a quote from the nature of reality book , from chapter 21 , " Affirmation , Love , acceptance, and Denial. Just seems weird when one reads it.

I understood it is a question, and if someone else reads your post that had those feelings  or questions sometimes it is helpful they could have some resources right away.

It is a perfectly wonderful question to ask. I can attest to revenge growing up. Tit for tat.

I have had fantasies of beating someone up. There is nothing wrong with being so angry and so hurt you feel like it is the only solution. It is a release of sorts. You feel the power in it. But then you are still left holding these cards in play of you still hurting. I have taken revenge and it did not help. I was still hurting or humiliated or what have you.

Doing my psychological belief work with Seth, NLP, and Byron Katie has had the most proufound turn around for me. But... I allowed myself to look in the mirror and ask questions.
It is a great topic to discuss and I am thankful you brought it up.

---

The Nature of Personal Reality
– Part Two: Your Body as Your Own Unique Living Sculpture. Your Life as Your Most Intimate Work of Art, and the Nature of Creativity as It Applies to Your Personal Experience
– Chapter 11: The Conscious Mind as the Carrier of Beliefs. Your Beliefs in Relation to Health and Satisfaction
– Session 644, February 28, 1973 9:05 P.M. Wednesday
[... 10 paragraphs ...]

Your systems of belief will of course attract certain kinds of thoughts, with their trails of emotional experience. A steady barrage of hateful, revengeful thoughts should actually lead you to look for the beliefs from which they are gaining their strength.

[... 2 paragraphs ...]

The "negative" subjective and objective events that you meet are meant to make you examine the contents of your own conscious mind. In their way the hateful or revengeful thoughts are natural therapeutic devices, for if you follow them, accepting them with their own validity as feelings, they will automatically lead you beyond themselves; they will change into other feelings, carrying you from hatred into what may seem to be the quicksands of fear — which is always behind hatred.

[... 79 paragraphs ...]

---

It leads you to the fear behind it all. You gain false power and strength from revenge. But you temporarily do get something from it.

https://nowdictation.com/q/revenge/

---

Living well is not revenge but living well to rub it in someone's face can lead to a great fall. Then you are back at square one. To show another how great you can be or that you "can", is still not a self loving solution. For when we prove our self worth to another it is still false. And your inner most self will not be fooled. Nor will you be fooled on the outside. Sometimes this can lead to resentment and repression. Then you are in a new quandry. All of this is merely a bandaid.

Like losing weight to show your partner how lovely you can be. Not doing it because you want to is a sure way to gaining it all back or getting yourself sick.

I am grateful you brought this topic up.

Avenging and revenge to me are the same thing.

There is no such thing as avenging my honor. Been there done that and it did not help. lol

Cultures, traditions, values of some folks base their belief system on avenging. Be it someone's murder, rape, theft etc

It is still doing what the perpetrator has done. It is revenge. It is tit for tat.

You become that which you avenge.
And perpetuate the problem.

Batman is not a superhero. He is revenge personified. He is "vengence". He is "the punisher." IMHO

It is helpful for me to see what I have expressed and I thank you for asking.

Quote from: raz on June 03, 2022, 10:03:10 PMBut my experiences with thoughts or emotions that are left alone is that they don't go away , or correct themselves , even ones from a long time ago , they still pop up the same even years later , if not different than before , almost like they morphed into something else.
                                                                                           
                                                                                           

I think this is why I responded the way I did. Because I can relate.

The emotional intensity can be blinding at times. Very very persuasive also.

When left unquestioned we can hang on to boulders.

I did this exercise once in a group and my mentor/teacher had us pick up rocks, stones, small and large and as many as we could possibly carry.

He said hold onto them as long as you can. Our arms stretched out.

Dearie me that was an experience lol

Arms tiring and shaking. Oh the thoughts flittered about.

Then he said "now let them all go all at once."

Whew what a relief!!!!

Then he said "now pick em all up again."

LOL no one wanted to! Some began to do it, me and a few others refused!

It was a lesson I hope I will never forget lol

It was to show us how heavy our beliefs can be.

---

Quote from: raz on June 03, 2022, 10:03:10 PMSome statements in the " Nature of personal reality " book about hate are confusing to me , like " Even your hateful fantasies, left alone , will return you to a reconciliation and release love " . Like he has implied before in the book  that if you trust in your inner self , there is like a system of balances and checks that will correct themselves if left alone , if i understood it correctly. But my experiences with thoughts or emotions that are left alone is that they don't go away , or correct themselves , even ones from a long time ago , they still pop up the same even years later , if not different than before , almost like they morphed into something else.
                                                                                 
Also there is a statement like , " A fantasy of beating a parent or child , even to death , will if followed through , lead to tears and understanding." I'm guessing here that he is not implying one following through physically with the fantasy , but perhaps examining/following through the fantasy mentally , but it is still a strange statement and can be misleading if not understood.
                                                                                 
One thing about quoting some of these statements though , is that its hard to see the whole context that it is in because there is a lot of other stuff around it.

I read that whole Chapter 11. Seth advises against repressing emotions, as that is worse for the personality. There is somewhere, in another session, a story he tells about a guy not addressing a lazy co-worker situation.

Those quotes basically say that leaving alone, neither repressing nor fueling hate that naturally arises (like the weather changes, Seth's analogy) is healthier, and it is good for creativity; Seth is big on creativity. He says that hate doesn't cause violence, and it naturally comes and goes. Powerlessness causes violence. He gives some examples.

Also, considering that our thoughts create our reality, not others' realities, our hate doesn't have direct effect on others.

The way I understand the Seth Material, he is concerned with the growth, development of the personality, and doesn't give much weight to physical-desires, even physical-wellbeing. It is similar to how much we care about our dream-characters' desires and wellbeing.

At the end of that chapter, Seth talks about the "spacious mind", which is interesting, and although he talks about it more in terms of probable-future, I think that to some degree this would be a return to the ancestral primitive man's capability, who was aware of the non-physical aspects of his personality, similarly to animals and other forms of physical-consciousness.

Quote from: raz on June 03, 2022, 10:03:10 PMSome statements in the " Nature of personal reality " book about hate are confusing to me , like " Even your hateful fantasies, left alone , will return you to a reconciliation and release love " . Like he has implied before in the book  that if you trust in your inner self , there is like a system of balances and checks that will correct themselves if left alone , if i understood it correctly. But my experiences with thoughts or emotions that are left alone is that they don't go away , or correct themselves , even ones from a long time ago , they still pop up the same even years later , if not different than before , almost like they morphed into something else.
                                                                                            Also there is a statement like , " A fantasy of beating a parent or child , even to death , will if followed through , lead to tears and understanding." I'm guessing here that he is not implying one following through physically with the fantasy , but perhaps examining/following through the fantasy mentally , but it is still a strange statement and can be misleading if not understood.
                                                                                             One thing about quoting some of these statements though , is that its hard to see the whole context that it is in because there is a lot of other stuff around it.

Quote from: raz on June 03, 2022, 10:03:10 PMSome statements in the " Nature of personal reality " book about hate are confusing to me , like " Even your hateful fantasies, left alone , will return you to a reconciliation and release love " . Like he has implied before in the book  that if you trust in your inner self , there is like a system of balances and checks that will correct themselves if left alone , if i understood it correctly. But my experiences with thoughts or emotions that are left alone is that they don't go away , or correct themselves , even ones from a long time ago , they still pop up the same even years later , if not different than before , almost like they morphed into something else.
                                                                                            Also there is a statement like , " A fantasy of beating a parent or child , even to death , will if followed through , lead to tears and understanding." I'm guessing here that he is not implying one following through physically with the fantasy , but perhaps examining/following through the fantasy mentally , but it is still a strange statement and can be misleading if not understood.
                                                                                             One thing about quoting some of these statements though , is that its hard to see the whole context that it is in because there is a lot of other stuff around it.

I remember I re-read this part several times, because it was confusing to me too. I am still not sure I get it,  would I really end up realizing I love someone if I beat that person to death?  I doubt it.  If I don't like someone, then I don't like that person.  I can't understand how underneath the hate, can be love.  If I don't like someone, then I don't want to bother with them at all.  I want them out of my world.  I think I am honest with myself, I just can't see the love for people I have no respect for.  But the opposite of love is not hate, it is indifference!

Quote from: Bora137 on June 04, 2022, 04:04:22 PMHate contracts you, you literally shrink. Love expands you, you are forever becoming more.

Period 🙂

Do you feel you shrink when you hate?  Just wondering.  I feel it as an obstacle, something that holds you back.  What do you mean you shrink, I don't feel myself shrinking when I hate, it's just something heavy.  I ask, because it's interesting.

Quote from: wanderer123 on June 08, 2022, 10:34:38 AM[]

... would I really end up realizing I love someone if I beat that person to death?  I doubt it.   ....

That suggests a possible origin of the idiom "loving someone (or something) to death" ...

Quote from: inavalan on June 08, 2022, 12:45:30 PM

Quote from: wanderer123 on June 08, 2022, 10:34:38 AM[]

... would I really end up realizing I love someone if I beat that person to death?  I doubt it.   ....

That suggests a possible origin of the idiom "loving someone (or something) to death" ...

Haha, that's an interesting point.

Quote from: strangerthings on June 02, 2022, 07:54:08 PMI suggest if you feel that strongly someone has wronged you then this worksheet could help. This is Byron Katie.

To me revenge is holding onto what does not serve you constructively. You are holding onto it with dear life instead of recognizing how you had a part in it and attracted the lesson. Tit for tat can go on and on forever lol Is that what you want?


People live in states. States of mind. Behaviours can be icky but it is merely a state of mind.

We live with mind maps and some expect people to do what we think they should do. That is called slavery and I think we have all been down this road until we realize we have been dictators.

How do you know they should be doing such and such? What if they are on the best path to landing them in an even greater expansion. People's life paths are theirs. Not ours.


When you are ready and may want to try something to help let go of anger or being wronged you can if you want, try this out.

This was posted a few days ago by a forum member and I think... it is helpful here.
https://speakingofseth.com/index.php?msg=22758

Yeah, I don't hold on to hate.  It's much more beautiful to remember good things that people do to you and for you.  The bad things I forget fast, because your mind can only hold so much.  No room for negativity in there.  But you can't help but feel something when you feel you've been wronged.  I like to ride them out, because that's how they lose their energy.

I agree, everyone's on a path that's best for them.  We meet people we don't get along with on Earth, because where we come from, we only hang out with like-minded souls.  Earth is an adventure!

Quote from: inavalan on June 03, 2022, 12:42:06 AM"I have told you before, however, that there is never any justification for violence. There is never any justification for threats. It makes no difference whether or not you think that the end justifies the means because it does not.

The means creates the end.

And if the means are violent, the ends are violent.

None of you—none of you—including our profound Dean, solidly understands what I am trying to tell you. I hope you shall some day.

You create your own physical reality!

Each of you individually creates the reality that you know—and en masse, altogether, you create the reality of your world and your universe. There is no good within it in which you do not participate—and there is no evil within it in which you do not participate—and in which you have no part.

Now this is practical and it is the only real practicality. For if you hate, you create a hateful reality. And to the extent that you hate, you find reality hateful. To the extent that you fear, you create a fearful reality. To the extent that you love, you create a lovely reality. To the extent that you create, you create a reality full of creativity—and this is my message."
—ECS1 ESP Class Session, April 22, 1969

You quoted my favorite Seth quotes!

Quote from: strangerthings on June 02, 2022, 10:02:36 PMI remember Seth saying to beat a pillow up until it is all out of you. If you feel you want to beat someone up. lol

This does work.  This was before I found the Seth material, I had to beat up a pillow and kick it to death.  It does help.  Life has been so much more beautiful after I found the Seth material, and there hasn't been any need since then to beat any pillow up, because you understand life so much better.

Life was so difficult for me before I found the Seth material, that I now just admire people who don't know about Seth, and can make it through life, because we do live in a difficult period.  I don't know how I can make it through emotionally without knowing what I know now.