"I have no name" vs. "We Are Seth"

[Deb]

I came across Ron Card's Facebook post the other day about "We Are Seth," which I find fascinating.

But beside my interest in the subject matter, this statement from the long TES08 (1968) quote below piqued my curiosity:

"We are Seth, and whenever we have spoken we have been known as Seth. The entity had its beginning before the emergence of your time"

because I feel it contrasts with or contradicts these other statements made by Seth regarding names, and his name in particular. Or it could just be that the Seth entity is relating to Rob and Jane on "our" level with our need for names and labels. Your thoughts?

"You may call me whatever you choose. I call myself Seth. It fits the me of me, the personality most clearly approximating the whole self I am, or am trying to be. Joseph is your whole self more or less, the image of the sum of your various personalities in the past and in the future."
—TES1 Session 4 December 8, 1963

"You may call me Seth, John, although in case you are interested your entity name is Philip. [...]"
—TES1 Session 26 February 18, 1964

"So I ask you: 'What is your name, each of you?' My name is nameless. I have no name. I give you the name of Seth because it is a name and you want names. You give yourselves names ... because you believe they are important.

"Your existence is nameless. It is not voiceless, but it is nameless. The names you take are structures upon which you hang your images ... What you are cannot be uttered, and no letter or alphabet can contain it. Yet, now you need words and letters, and names and objects. You want magic that will tell you what you are.

"You believe that you cannot speak to me unless I have a name, so I am Seth ... I told Ruburt from our earliest sessions that he could call me Seth. I never said, 'My name is Seth,' (but 'I call myself Seth' — my emphasis), for I am nameless. I have had too many identities to cling to one name!""
—UR2 Section 4: Session 711 October 9, 1974

Now, from Ron Card on Facebook Feb . 7, 2019:

..ron speaks...This is a KEY session, and a very important one, because for this session, Jane did not speak for the usual Seth, or Seth One, nor did she speak for Seth Two, which is Seth One's greatly advanced self.

Here Jane spoke for a NEW Seth personality, WE ARE SETH.

WE ARE SETH, can be considered the pyramid energy gestalt entity containing infinite Seth personalities, and it can be considered the "parent" entity for Seth One and Seth Two, that is, WE ARE SETH is the "mother and father," and aunt and uncle, and brother and sister of Seth One and Seth two, in a great sense, although words fall short of true meaning and definition.

WE ARE SETH acknowledges that other similar gestalt entities are also actively involved in the edification of earth reality, and they all draw upon known ancient knowledge and wisdom with each Speaker-Teacher expressing their message in different terms using different approaches and drawing on different curriculums and different agendas. ALL the teaching entities are friendly colleagues, meeting often, in your terms, to discuss methods and exchange feedback.

They are also directly related to WE ARE CHRIST and WE ARE BUDDHA, as well as WE ARE SETH to name a couple gestalt entities. They are learning too.

From The Early Sessions, Book 8, Session 419 for June 26, 1968:

(The three of us sat for the session as usual at 9 PM. Jane didn't know whether Seth, or his entity, would speak. Shortly before she went into trance at 9:15, she whispered to me "The other one," meaning that Seth's entity would speak. She also experienced the pyramid effect at this time but didn't tell us until break.

We are Seth, and whenever we have spoken we have been known as Seth. The entity had its beginning before the emergence of your time.

It was instrumental, with many other entities, in the early formation of energy into physical form. We are not alone in this endeavor, for through your centuries other entities like us have also appeared and spoken.

Our entity is composed of multitudinous selves with their own identities, many of whom have worked in this behalf. Their material and messages will always be basically the same, though the circumstances and times and places of their communications may be colored differently.

You need not be concerned. (Eyes open, slitted.) You have your own situation and your own conditions to deal with. We taught man to speak before the tongue knew syllables. We adopt whatever personality characteristics seem pertinent, for in our own reality we have a bank of complete inner selves, and we are all Seth.

Again, there are many others like us. We attempt to translate realities into terms that you can comprehend. We change our face and form but we are always the one. We are therefore always a part of the one entity which is the Seth entity. (Long pause at 9:30.)

Many of us have not been born in flesh, as I have not been, but other portions of the personality have appeared in flesh; and some portion of us will always be born in flesh, for we have a part in all worlds and all realities. We are among the most ancient of entities in your terms.

Seth as you know him will not be reincarnated, but other portions of our entity will be born in flesh, for we have a part in all worlds and all realities. We are among the most ancient of entities in your terms.

In one way we have seeded ourselves through endless universes. Physically you would find me a mass smaller than a brown nut, for my energy is so highly concentrated. It exists in intensified mass entangled and intertwined with moment points, perhaps like one infinite cell, existing however in endless dimensions at once (pause), and reaching out through interconnections even from my own reality through others to your room.

Yet in such a small mass these intensities contain memories and experiences, electromagnetically coiled one within the other, through which I can travel, even as I can travel through other selves which I have known and which are a portion of my identity—and even as you, so large and bulky in your size, are still a portion of those memories that exist within my identity, and yet so beautifully un-predetermined. For you do not exist as finished or completed personalities within my memory, but you grow within my memory.

You grow through my memory as a tree grows up through space, and my memory changes as you change. My memory of you includes your probable selves, and all these coordinates exist simultaneously in a point that takes up no space.

My reality includes all of this, and yet that reality which is my self constantly changes as the coordinates themselves fulfill their values. I speak to you through multitudinous prisms, and these prisms themselves are coordinates which change even as I speak.

Rob notes, 9:40, Jane sat for a long time motionless in her rocker, eyes closed, as I waited to see whether she was taking a pause or a break. Finally she whispered my name. I then called her name and touched her, and she finally began to come out of trance.

(It took a while. After fifteen minutes I had to get her a cigarette, talk to her to keep her awake, etc. However, she said she was not and hadn't been, sleepy. Instead she had been "lost" again; she had a feeling of suspension among Seth, his entity, and herself, her own voice. She was not frightened, and knew I would help her.

Jane was fairly out of it by 10:00 PM, although she still felt some effects. I suggested that the session be considered ended, but she demurred. She resumed shortly. Once again the voice was high and formal, but I thought no so distinct, not so distant. There was more of Jane's regular voice in it, a touch of sleepiness.

Seth's entity: I told you that in many ways Ruburt's personality acts like a warp. In certain coordinates it exists at certain points that are entry points, and certain coordinates here merge informational channels that are opened.

Personality is itself an energy source. Now this is rather important. The personality operates and has always operated in this manner. Of itself it is like a peephole or a transparent area through which other areas can be glimpsed, and through which information from other dimensions can flow.

Now, the strong ego structure has been adopted as a necessary guard and protection to hold the abilities in check until the present personality learned to develop its abilities to a sufficient level. For the energy behind the personality could have swept the temporary psychological ( word missed here ) ...apart until sufficient preparation had been carried on. So do not berate the ego.

The personality ego structure had to be strong, for the whole personality is in many respects a transparent one through which we can speak and through which other realities can be seen. In most basic respects this statement is meant literally and not symbolically. The personality in itself is formed from components existing in many realities...

( here Jane was sitting very relaxed in her rocker, leaning back with eyes closed, quite limp, voice slowing after a very fast delivery, above. I thought she might go to sleep, or so it appeared.)

...and is an apex point. The personality without realizing it also operates as a transmitter, sending messages to other portions of reality. The abilities must be used, the creative urges therefore fully utilized in all areas -- the psyche, the spiritual, the more earthly writing and painting, for this energy sweeps through the personality and cannot be dammed up.

The window cannot see through itself, but you can see through the window. So this personality does not always know what it is about, and yet the results can be seen. The personality is transparent also with your nature, and learning to use those abilities which are natural to it, can indeed then rather easily learn to merge consciousness with natural phenomena.

( Jane sat still limp, eyes closed. Her voice had dropped somewhat in key and sounded oddly muffled. I almost ended the session here.)

Seth entity: These Seths, this entity, was once a part of old earth gods, as Ruburt wrote about them years ago.

10;12 PM, I called Jane's name several times as soon as she paused. My concern must have been obvious.

Seth entity: ...There is no severe difficulty, we will sever...

( Jane's voice trailed off I called her again. She moved several times, coughed, started as though making a quick return from trance. I touched her foot. Her eyes opened and she came out of it more rapidly than she did at break. Once again she had the pyramid effect, she later told us, as she did so.

[jbseth]

Hi Deb, Hi All,

Deb, in regards to your comments about the "We are Seth" statement, and how it appears to contrast with or contradict other statements made by Seth, I have the following thoughts.

I don't really think that these are contradictions even though they may appear to be. Instead I suspect that all of the various statements that Seth made about his name etc., has more to do with him explaining himself and the nature of reality to various people (Jane, Rob, and John) who have a need to use names.

I think that what Seth had to say in UR2 Section 4, Session 711 is valid.

"Your existence is nameless. It is not voiceless, but it is nameless. The names you take are structures upon which you hang your images ... What you are cannot be uttered, and no letter or alphabet can contain it. Yet, now you need words and letters, and names and objects."

Even though our existence is nameless, when Jane and Rob first started to communicate with Seth, they needed to know what to call him. As a result of this, I believe that Seth opted to refer to himself as Seth as a practical matter in communicating with Jane, Rob and others.

Seth then went on to explain many concepts to Jane and Rob. These included the concepts of the outer self, the inner self, the entity, gestalts of consciousness, All That Is, etc. This was all done before Jane began to experience Seth 2.

In TES8, Session 406, Jane begins to experience Seth 2.  Then, just a few sessions later, we find the "We are Seth" comments made in Session 419.

When I read TES8, several years ago, I assumed that it was Seth 2 who was communicating with Rob and Jane in Session 419, and not some new personality. It seems to me that Seth 2, could very legitimately be making this statement and because of this, I'm not so sure that this was in fact a "new" Seth personality, as Ron seems to be indicating.

In paragraph 13, in the preface of her book "Adventures in Consciousness", Jane does mention that she had communicated with Seth 3 on two occasions.  In this preface, Janes says the following:

"This 'Seth level' has expanded into two other states that I call Seth Two and Three, though I've reached the Seth Three stage, only twice."

I suppose that Seth 3, could also have been making this "We are Seth" statement as well.
I am open to the possibility that it could have been Seth 2, a "new" Seth Personality, Seth 3, or even some other personality that actually made this statement.

jbseth







   

[Sena]

In one way we have seeded ourselves through endless universes. Physically you would find me a mass smaller than a brown nut, for my energy is so highly concentrated.

Deb, thanks for these quotes. Seth makes it clear that he has a physical existence. The implication is that everyone will have some kind of physical existence after death, although it may not be in the form of a human body.

[Deb]

"This 'Seth level' has expanded into two other states that I call Seth Two and Three, though I've reached the Seth Three stage, only twice."

I should look into Seth Three more. Ron said that We Are Seth is a pyramid gestalt energy containing infinite Seth personalities, so there seem to be more Seths than we can imagine.

But what struck me odd about the session quoted above (not sure it's all of it either), is that they came right out and said "We are Seth, and whenever we have spoken we have been known as Seth. The entity had its beginning before the emergence of your time."

After the Seth we know and love insisted many times he had no name but "you can call me Seth" I found it odd that an entity or energy gestalt would come flat out and say "we are Seth." But I guess that also explains Seth's explanation as to why he offered that name to Rob and Jane.

Maybe I'm just splitting hairs again. Or I took the statement too literally.

Seth makes it clear that he has a physical existence. The implication is that everyone will have some kind of physical existence after death, although it may not be in the form of a human body.

Nice, I didn't pick up on that but now that you mention it, yes! It sounds like the 'soul' energy has mass.

[jbseth]

Hi Deb, Hi All,

I found this, "We are" quote by Seth Two, in Seth Speaks the other day and just now got around to posting it. I do find this "we are" statement to be interesting. I'm really not quite sure what to make if it.

Seth Speaks, Chapter 22, Session 588

We are the voices who speak without tongues of our own. We are sources of that energy from which you come. We are creators, yet we have also been created. We seeded your universe as you seed other realities.

We do not exist in your historical terms, nor have we known physical existence. Our joy created the exaltation from which your world comes. Our existence is such that communication must be made by others to you.

Verbal symbols have no meaning for us. Our experience is not translatable. We hope our intent is. In the vast infinite scope of consciousness, all is possible. There is meaning in each thought. We perceive your thoughts as lights. They form patterns. (Each syllable was so carefully and separately pronounced.)

Because of the difficulties of communication, it is nearly impossible for us to explain our reality. Know only that we exist. We send immeasurable vitality to you, and support all of those structures of consciousness with which you are familiar. You are never alone. (Pause.) We have always sent emissaries to you who understand your needs. Though you do not know us, we cherish you.

Seth is a point in my reference, in our reference. He is an ancient portion of us. (Pause.) We are separate but united. (Long pause.) Always the spirit forms the flesh.

jbseth