Bobby Joe Long

[jbseth]

Hi All

I saw this article on the internet about how Bobby Joe Long, a serial killer and rapist was executed in Florida today (see links below).  Apparently in 1984, in the Tampa Bay area of Florida, he murdered 10 women over a relatively short period of time.  Do any of you in the Seth forum, remember this from 1984?

I don't. I grew up in Florida, but by 1984 I was living in Oregon.


There's a horrendous story that took place between Bobby Joe and a woman named Lisa, one of his intended victims, who, it turns out, was the person who led police to him.  Before talking about this story, however, here's some interesting things that Seth has to say on topics that are related to this. These comments from Seth all come from the book, NOPR, "The Nature of Personal Reality".


In NOPR, Ch 8, Session 634, Seth talks about what he calls "violations". In regards to this subject, he says the following:

Killing another human being is a violation. Killing while protecting your own body from death at the hands of another through immediate contact is a violation.

Interestingly enough along these lines, he also points out the following:

You would not be in such a hypothetical situation to begin with unless violent thoughts of your own, faced or unfaced, had attracted it to you.

Finally, he does mention an alternative to killing someone in order to protect yourself. In this same session he says:

Because you consider aggression synonymous with violence, you may not understand that aggressive — forceful, active, mental or spoken — commands for peace could save your life in such a case; yet they could.


Along with this, in NOPR, Ch 18, Session 665, Seth also says the following:

[... 3 paragraphs ...]

Now: Dictation: Again, there are no accidents. No one dies under any circumstances who is not prepared to die. This applies to death through natural catastrophe as well as to any other situation.
Your own choice will dictate the way you die, as well as the time. [...]


Now, here's the story.


In 1984, one of Bobby Joe Long's intended victims, Lisa, a young woman of 17 year at the time, was riding her bike home at night after pulling a double shift at a donut shop. On her way home, Bobby attacked her, blindfolded her, and took her to his home where he repeatedly raped her while holding her hostage for 26 hours. Under the circumstances, she managed to stay cool and behaved very intelligently and compliantly to his aggressive behavior. She told him that he seem ok, that maybe she could be his girlfriend. She also told him that she was the sole caretaker of her invalid father who had nobody else to take care of him.  Eventually he decided to let her go, and when he did so, he told her that the reason he was doing so, was so she could go home and take care of her invalid father.

While she was there, she asked him if she could use the bathroom and he let her do so.
While in the bathroom, she intentionally put her hands (fingerprints) all over everything she could, in the hopes that later, the police would find her prints in his house. Since she stressed her jaws when he blindfolded her, the blindfold loosened slightly after she relaxed her jaws and as a result, unknown to him, she could see a lot of everything that occurred.

After he let her go, she went to the police and told them what had just happened to her. Initially, they didn't realize that this man was the serial killer that they were looking for. After they arrested him, eventually they learned that he was, in fact, the serial killer. Lisa's information and the fact that her fingerprints were all over the bathroom really helped.


Now here's the interesting thing. On the night that Lisa was riding her bike home from the donut shop, she had literally planned to go home and commit suicide. She says that she had grown up in an extremely abusive home life situation, and was literally planning to go home and kill herself, that very night.




This story makes me think that there is some truth to what Seth says above. By her dwelling upon the act of killing herself, she literally invited this serial killer to intervene into her life.

I think however, that her choice to live and the cool and intelligent way that she handled herself, in the situation, shows very much what Seth was saying when he said, "aggressive — forceful, active, mental or spoken — commands for peace could save your life."

There's much more to this story. Lisa has become an officer of the local sheriff's department and was present this morning, when Bobby Joe was executed.


Here's some link's to this story. 


https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/24/us/bobby-joe-long-execution-florida/index.html


https://truecrimedaily.com/2016/02/22/ex-wife-offers-look-inside-the-mind-of-notorious-serial-killer/


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Joe_Long


- jbseth

[Sena]

By her dwelling upon the act of killing herself, she literally invited this serial killer to intervene into her life.

jbseth, thanks for this. I wonder whether Christians who meditate on the death of Christ on Good Friday, and want to "imitate" Christ, might be doing something similar.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Imitation_of_Christ

"The Imitation is perhaps the most widely read Christian devotional work next to the Bible."

"José Rizal, the Philippine polymath and national hero, reportedly read the book whilst incarcerated within Fort Santiago in Intramuros, Manila, shortly before the Spanish colonial government executed him by firing squad for sedition on 30 December 1896."

My mother had a copy of this book. I had a glance at it and was not too impressed. I suppose when I was a teenager/young adult I made a feeble attempt to imitate Christ.

[Deb]

Do any of you in the Seth forum, remember this from 1984?

Thanks for tying the news item in with Seth, it's a perfect example.

I came across and read the article about Bobby Joe Long the other day and was stunned because I'd never heard of him. I lived in Florida from 76-83! Bundy was ALL over the news. One of the clients of the law firm where I worked was the father of Lisa Levy, the FSU student that Bundy killed. But for some reason I didn't hear about Long. Isn't that strange?

I've always been uncomfortable with Seth's explanations of "violation," mainly because he basically says it's wrong to self-defend. But if I look at the word violation as a fact as opposed to a judgment, I better understand what Seth is saying.

Definitely this surviving Long victim did the right thing (aligned with what Seth said), and I found it interesting that the event changed her mind about suicide. And that she became an officer. Her leaving her prints and blood in the house was something I don't think would ever cross my mind if I was in that situation. Very smart. The article I'd read even said that she stumbled when he let her go in the end, and he caught her so that she wouldn't fall.

Considering we make these situations cooperatively, it's also interesting to me that when he finally showed some compassion or at least kindness to his last victim, it resulted in the end of the killing cycle. A little like Russian Doll? I think it would take a spiritually advanced person to respond to a threat of death with "commands for peace" rather than reacting in kind.

"The Imitation is perhaps the most widely read Christian devotional work next to the Bible."

And coincidentally I've never heard of The Imitation. And it's supposedly so widely read! Again, Seth makes a lot of sense explaining how we can draw violence to ourselves. And both Lisa McVey and José Rizal could be seen as evidence of that.

BTW I remember years ago hearing a lot about people with stigmata. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stigmata The mind is a powerful thing.

[jbseth]

Hi Sena, Hi Deb, Hi All,

Sena, thanks for your reply. Like Deb above, I too have never heard of "The Imitation of Christ". I read the Wikipedia link that you posted and found it to be very interesting.

Based upon what is written in this Wikipedia article, I can't help but notice that this book presents concepts having to do with denial (the denial of the flesh, the denial of one want's and desires), which is not unlike those same recommended practices from many Eastern philosophies.  Seth has a much different take in regards to these denial recommendations.

Your question in regards to whether Christians who meditate on the death of Christ on Good Friday, and want to "imitate" Christ, might be doing something similar, I think is a great one. I personally don't know or understand exactly what it is that Christians who do this, are really trying to accomplish. Are they actually hoping to die? I'm not sure. However, I do believe that Lisa, in the story about Bobby Joe, was very much focusing upon dying. She was planning to kill herself that night.



Deb, in the Bobby Joe story, I also thought that it was really interesting that when he let Lisa go and she stumbled, he caught her so that she wouldn't fall. I can't help but think that she must have made some sort of emotional impact on him.

Your comments about stigmata have brought about an interesting synchronous event of a sort. Father Padre Pio was a recent stigmatist and he was born on today's date, May 25, 1887.  I came across this while looking at Bing's "Today in History" sight this morning.

http://www.bing.com/search?q=pio+of+pietrelcina&filters=ufn%3a%22pio+of+pietrelcina%22+sid%3a%22e0e42e3b-fcf8-ff52-9521-9c2b68292630%22+catguid%3a%22mso%2fpeople.person_24261f960c9f8ae430da492ffdcdad67%22+segment%3a%22generic.carousel%22+secq%3a%22connie+sellecca%22+supwlcar%3a%220%22+segtype%3a%22RmFtb3VzR2VuZXJpY1Blb3BsZQ%3d%3d%22+ctype%3a%220%22+mltype%3a%220%22+eltypedim1%3a%22Actor%22&FORM=SNAPCR&crslsl=0


-jbseth

[Sena]

I personally don't know or understand exactly what it is that Christians who do this, are really trying to accomplish. Are they actually hoping to die? I'm not sure.

jbseth, I don't think Christians who meditate on the death of Christ are hoping to die. They do, however, convince themselves that the death of Christ on the cross was a "good" thing. This seems to me a kind of craziness.

[jbseth]

Hi Sena,

I completely agree. I completely agree.

-jbseth

[Deb]

Your comments about stigmata have brought about an interesting synchronous event of a sort. Father Padre Pio was a recent stigmatist and he was born on today's date, May 25, 1887.  I came across this while looking at Bing's "Today in History" sight this morning.

Wow, yes, I agree. A synchronicity.

Normally I wouldn't know about Padre Pio, but I had a very religious aunt who would always talk about him and miracles he performed. She talked about the church planning to canonize him, I'm not sure if she lived to see that day. I didn't realize he was a stigmatic. The photo of him on the Wiki page shows mysteriously large round dark marks on his hands.

If they were in fact not self-afflicted wounds (carbolic acid or pastilles), to me it's another demonstration of the power of the mind. You get what you concentrate upon. And to think of all the stigmatics throughout history who have mimicked the crucifixion of Jesus which, according to Seth, never even happened. If he did cause the marks with chemicals, he was not a very saintly saint. One of many reasons to "not place the words of gurus, ministers, priests, scientists, psychologists, friends — or my words — higher than the feelings of your own being."

They do, however, convince themselves that the death of Christ on the cross was a "good" thing. This seems to me a kind of craziness.

Yes they do. It's just one of the things about (most) religions that I feel are damaging and messed up.

[LenKop]

This is very interesting, thanks jb.

I find it interesting that you guys who lived in or near the area around that time were not aware of the situation. Is this a probable mass event only now coming through to us for whatever reason?

I just finished Campbell's "Hero With A Thousand Faces" and found it a fascinating read. A lot of the mythology and symbolism he discusses relates well with Seth's concepts. I think the Christian zealots are not so much looking to die, but looking to be reborn through imitative suffering. They want to be like their hero, rather than being a hero unto themselves.

Perhaps Bobby Joe Long was being a hero in his own mind when he acted the way he did. Maybe Lisa had a clear choice to discover the hero in herself, or admit defeat. Maybe the people of the area and time needed a hero to stop him. Who knows, but I'm glad she arose from her depression when it counted.

From a mass event POV, there seems to have been many serial killers during that 60's, 70's and 80's period. I wonder what all that is about?

Len

[Deb]

Is this a probable mass event only now coming through to us for whatever reason?

From a mass event POV, there seems to have been many serial killers during that 60's, 70's and 80's period. I wonder what all that is about?

Wow, great questions! Now that you mention it, there were a lot of serial killers during that time. Of course we here usually only hear about the ones in America.

Thomas Campbell does fit nicely with Seth. He worked with Bob Monroe back in the day. I know Bob consulted with Jane/Seth, not sure if Campbell was there as well, but he was a Seth reader at least back then.

I've just begun reading Barrie Gellis's Seth Material Q&A and already picked up this little tidbit on page 41 that kind of ties in with this topic. He's discussing the "there are no victims" concept, using a murder for an example:

The key thing to remember here is this: Telepathically "agreeing" to be hurt does not compel or obligate the potential hurter to act. It actually just offers this person the CHOICE to say, "yes, I will hurt you" OR "no I won't."

Thus, it is important to remember that this subconscious idea of "no victim" does not excuse, remove or minimize the wrongness of the person who consciously chooses to perform the harmful act; NOR does it mean that it is OK or justified to harm others because "they are not victims and they agree to it."

... It is a FALSE belief that it's OK to hurt others because they agreed to it—and so there are no victims.

Earlier he showed how seemingly contradicting positions can BOTH be true. In this situation he points out that while a murderer/victim situation is worked out on the telepathic level, the murderer is making a decision on the conscious level to harm someone, while the victim does not have this conscious knowledge and so in this case can be considered a victim—in the physical realm.

The person is a victim BECAUSE the other person CONSCIOUSLY chose to harm this person—without the other person's CONSCIOUS permission.

That's an angle I'd not considered before. Interesting.

Update: Since posting this, it occurred to me (from Barrie's explanation of victims of crime), that the criminal may be the bigger beneficiary in the crime scenario, as the criminal has the choice to go through with his intentions or NOT to do so, therefore giving himself the opportunity to redeem himself, show or learn compassion for another human, develop a better moral compass. Other than the case of Long's last potential victim diffusing his intentions with kindness and also turning her life around, I can't imagine there's too much of a benefit to come from being murdered or almost murdered.

[LenKop]

Thomas Campbell does fit nicely with Seth.

Joseph Campbell, Deb, not Thomas.

https://www.amazon.com/Thousand-Faces-Collected-Joseph-Campbell/dp/1577315936

[Deb]

Oh, sorry! This is something new to me, sounds intense but really interesting. Reading the description and some reviews, it sounds relevant to Seth's explanation of myth in human history, and especially pertinent to our most recent discussions in that have been coming up about the crucifixion and religion in general, Atlantis. It's going on my wish list.