Who Was Jesus

[jbseth]

Hi All,

For many years now, during every Christmas season, I always seem to be drawn to once again, take a  look at who Jesus was and what he did during his life.

Typically I begin feeling the urge to do this sometime after Halloween but sometime before Christmas.  Usually for me, I do this by pulling out various Seth books and reviewing what Seth had to say about Jesus. I keep wanting to put together a document that contains everything that Seth had to say about Jesus (my attempt to put together the "Jesus Book" that Jane and Rob never did) and perhaps some day I actually will. 


When I was a child, I pretty much believed what I was told about him as was stated in the Bible. 
I didn't know that much about him as we seldom went to church, but I did believe that he was born in Bethlehem, on December 25, and that there was a star and 3 wise men and angels at his birth.

However, by the time I got into high school, and started to understand what we know about the world from science, I started to doubt some of the stories that I had heard.  Did a Star really stop over Bethlehem, what kind of a star was this, etc.

As I grew older, I discovered some of the other religions in the world and began to wonder how we could know for sure which religion was correct.

Then in my mid 20's, I discovered Seth, who also has some interesting things to say about Jesus.

Years later, I discovered that there are many historical scholars who have extensively analyzing the New Testament for over 200 years. They too, have some interesting things to share about Jesus.

I still don't know much about who Jesus was or what he said but I certainly do know a lot more about the various religions of the world, Seth's ideas and New Testament scholarship than I use to.


Does anyone have any thoughts or insights about Jesus that they'd like to share with the rest of us?


   

[LenKop]

hi jb,


Its a cool topic, and relevant at this time of year.


I don't think too much about who Jesus was, although I still do find it interesting, particularly the co-relation with other historical figures, and dramas, myths and religious. Also, in terms of time, probabilities, and cycles of consciousness and awareness.


But these days I care more about the message, the vibe behind the story.


Forgiveness is one of the strongest themes for me. Particularly self-forgiveness.


Len

[Sena]

Did a Star really stop over Bethlehem, what kind of a star was this, etc.

jbseth, thanks for starting this topic. I think the so-called star was probably a UFO, and Jesus Christ was an extraterrestrial (I am serious about this). Those who have had contact with extraterrestrials talk about "missing time". The gospels suggest a gap in Jesus' life between the ages of 12 and 30. Some gnostics speculate that he was in Egypt during this time undergoing "initiation". Or he could have been on a UFO or in an alien base being briefed about his mission.

Although Christianity as usually taught now appears to have outlived its usefulness, it did no doubt provide a framework for the development of Western civilization.

[voidypaul]

 I think that a defertiation should be made between the Christ entity + jesus who was one of the 3 phys' manifestations of this Christ entity whom Seth says was/is a much more advanced being than he is + I think he meant the jesus aspect of the Christ , but I will have to check up on this but I believe he said that ''your Christ '' rather than just Christ or the Christ entity , so jesus must have been a very advanced personality indeed if he was/is greater than Seth . (but what about Seth2 ohh lala)

  Jesus was as Seth has said a great mystic with the ability to matreialise his phys' form to any of His disciples wherever they were , an impressive skill indeed . He was also obviously able to work consciously in the dream reality + help direct those dreams into the subcon' of more than just His immeadiate followers + obviously had a great part to play in the crucifiction drama that was given humanity from the dreaming reality .  As Seth has said He was also able to manifest from himself all of the disciples , divine fragments as Seth put it , so he was obviously a very powerful personality to be able to achieve such incredibe feats of psychic power .

Personally i dont believe he was an alien but came directly from the Christ entity as i cannot imagine why he would detour so to spk in an alien body + which would imply that he was of another planet , but who knows .

I dont think that this jesus thought too highly of the phys' reality into which he was born because shortly after the crucifiction occurred he left his body to go into other planes of reality or to join again with his entity + left the disciples + paul to get on with it themselves .

The new Christ peronality will be the old paul , come back to undo some of the crap he left behind + as Seth says , he will be a composite of the other personalities (jesus + john) all of whom will come to fruition in him .

This paul is alive now but obviously has not as yet become 'enlightened' but perhaps there is no need for an enlightenment for as Seth has said , as he comes to understand who + what he is , so too will humanity come to understand themselves also . Therefore there may be no need whatsoever for him to reveal himself to others at all but we'll just have to wait + see about that won't we .

So paul will be jesus + john + the old paul + the present paul , a schitzophrenic if ever i heard of one haha , + maybe with a bit of alien thrown in for good measure . But they are all of Christ anyway .

[jbseth]

But these days I care more about the message, the vibe behind the story.Forgiveness is one of the strongest themes for me. Particularly self-forgiveness.

Hi LenKop,

I agree. I'm also strongly attracted to his message of love.
The Jesus that Seth describes in his various books must have been pretty awesome.

[jbseth]

jbseth, thanks for starting this topic. I think the so-called star was probably a UFO, and Jesus Christ was an extraterrestrial (I am serious about this). Those who have had contact with extraterrestrials talk about "missing time". The gospels suggest a gap in Jesus' life between the ages of 12 and 30. Some gnostics speculate that he was in Egypt during this time undergoing "initiation". Or he could have been on a UFO or in an alien base being briefed about his mission.

Hi Sena,

I was thinking about what you said today and I thought I'd share something that I've come across on page 35 of The Early Sessions, book 5, Session 203. In this session, Seth said the following:

"Your Christ had abilities which I still do not have... and he did appear in your form, but he was not of your form...Your people saw but a small fragment that they could understand... a fragment that was part of a larger reality that they could not understand..."


When I first came across this statement, I was really surprised. Here Seth is saying that Jesus had abilities that Seth still doesn't have.  Wow, personally I'm quite impressed with what Seth has said and done over the years. Jesus must have been very amazing indeed.

Now, when I read the second part of this statement, I'm really not sure, what to make of this exactly except that it certainly sounds like Jesus was much evolved than the rest of us.

 

[Sena]

and he did appear in your form, but he was not of your form...

jbseth, this is a very interesting quote from one of the Seth books which I have not read. We need to remember that all the Seth revelations were made prior to 1984, when Jane died. The intellectual climate then must have been considerably more hostile to the idea of extraterrestrial beings, and this may be why Seth was not more explicit. There was of course no internet then, and the information about benign extraterrestrials like the Pleiadians and Arcturians was probably not widely available. Even now, many websites describe the Greys as hostile, but this is contradicted by Suzy Hansen's book, "The Dual Soul Connection – The Alien Agenda for Human Advancement (2014)".

Your Christ had abilities which I still do not have

. This implies that Seth hopes or expects that one day he will have the same abilities that Christ has. Therefore it is not possible to say that the one is the Son or God and the other is not. Both are Sons of God. I don't think Seth ever mentioned the Holy Trinity, which is presumably a false idea invented by Christian theologians.

[sethspeaks]

Most of Christ's miracles occurred in a dream. There was no man who had actually Christ's properties. Therefore Seth does not have these properties.

[jbseth]

This paul is alive now but obviously has not as yet become 'enlightened'

Hi voidypaul,

Really. Paul is alive now?  How do you know?

[Deb]

I think the so-called star was probably a UFO, and Jesus Christ was an extraterrestrial (I am serious about this).

Although I'm still on the fence about ETs, this would explain a lot and for some reason makes more sense to me than the biblical version with which I was raised. The star(ship), the visitation by the three wise guys, that whole virgin birth scenario, Mary being visited by an 'angel' who told her she was going to bear a child... (yes, I realize there was a translation error there with the word virgin vs. young woman, but it fits).

There was a time when I entertained that ETs were not aliens as much as visitors from our future.

[Sena]

There was a time when I entertained that ETs were not aliens as much as visitors from our future.

Deb, there are several possibilities for the origin of beings currently identified as extraterrestrial:

"The interdimensional hypothesis (IDH or IH), is an idea advanced by Ufologists such as Jacques Vallée that says unidentified flying objects (UFOs) and related events involve visitations from other "realities" or "dimensions" that coexist separately alongside our own. It is an alternative to the extraterrestrial hypothesis (ETH)."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interdimensional_hypothesis

In Sethian terms, "other probable realities" could be involved:

"In some adventures you do visit other probable realities in which you have a body structure quite as real as 'your own.' Your own psychological makeup, for that matter, achieves its marvelous complexity because it draws from the rich bank of your greater probable existences. Even a small understanding of these ideas can help you glimpse how limiting previous concepts of psychology have been."
(Seth, The "Unknown" Reality Volume I. Session 685)

http://www.imaginenolimits.com/SethQuotes2.html

the visitation by the three wise guys

The appearance of a group of three guiding figures is a recurring theme in Suzy Hansen's book:

"I wondered if this and other similar memories indicated astral travelling rather than dreams. If so, who were the three familiar figures that always participated, guiding me?"

[voidypaul]

Hi jbseth  ;

              "Your Christ had abilities which I still do not have... and he did appear in your form, but he was not of your form...Your people saw but a small fragment that they could understand... a fragment that was part of a larger reality that they could not understand..."

              glad you dug out that quote as it was the one i was referring to in my previous post when i wondered if it was Christ as the entity , or Christ as jesus who was a more advanced being than Seth , (we must have had a little telepathic tete a tete) . But Seth says ''your Christ'' implying jesus the man , to me , rather than Christ the entity. 

           so Seth is saying that 'your' christ as jesus (the man)  had more abilities than he (Seth) does,         + is at the Seth2 or Christ entity level of awareness ,  way beyond our Seth in those terms .   

              Even so , our Seth has put forward that he is active in many different layers/levels of reality (mainly as a teacher i believe he said) + can manipulate time + space at will  +  is also aware of all of his prob' selves .  Great skills indeed so  he must be quite an inf' pesonality then . But he has said that he still retains something  similar to our subcons' , as he is still not as yet able to withstand the full force of true reality + must have this necessary 'barrier' so that he is not overwhelmed .   So this aspect of seth i would not liken to a god Sena as he is not fully open to his true inner self or entity (whose work he 'channels' in the Seth material) + whom he calls Seth2 .

          Seth2 is something else entirely , + is beyond any sort of phy' manifestation , + exists in a dimension where no thoughts or images exist as we know them + yet he is a creator + sustainer of worlds/universes +  of Seth himself (+  many more selves like him , even alien as you like to point out Sena ) . 
         Seth2 is the true entity/inner self , like the Christ entity (both of whom i would liken to gods at this level Sena) ,   + i think it is to this level of reality that seth points to when he said that Christ (even as jesus the man) had more abilities than he does , so im saying that jesus the man was at (or could be at) the entity level of awareness .

         This is also why i think he was likened to the son of god because jesus as Christ was at entity level awareness  +  was able to make other people aware of this + to be able to show them undesputable 'proof' of this entity level , which would blow any humans mind completely away .

           i think that 'our' Seth was not fully entity or Seth2 aware but i think that the man jesus as jesuschrist     was , or could be at the entity level of awareness at will .


         Seth has said himself that paul is alive now  but  as with the huns quote (thanks Deb) , i tend to remember what Seth has said but not from which book it came , unfortunately.
         Like  i will say to Deb that Seth says exactly what she has suggested about some aliens being visitors from our own future ,    but not where she might find it .

Also i think the alien hypothesis about the origin of Christ or jesus is just a load of fairytales , Seth has never mentioned this , + he would have done , + because jesus came straight from the entity level + would have not have detoured so tp spk in an alien body or manifestation which is completely absurd in my estimation . Not that the Christ entity might not have some alien incarn' but it is seperate from the jesus incarn' .


          thats life ,  peace , paul
         

[jbseth]

Seth has said himself that paul is alive now  but  as with the huns quote (thanks Deb) , i tend to remember what Seth has said but not from which book it came , unfortunately.         Like  i will say to Deb that Seth says exactly what she has suggested about some aliens being visitors from our own future ,    but not where she might find it .

Hi voidypaul,

In session 586 of Seth Speaks (July 24, 1971), Seth talks about the "Second Coming". In this same session he then says, "By 2075, all of this will be already accomplished."

A few paragraphs after this, he also says, "Now there will be several born before that time who in various ways will rearouse man's expectations". Then he says that one such man has already been born in India and after this he mentions that another will be born in Africa. Then he says, "The expectations were set long ago in your terms, and will be fed by new prophets until the third personality of Christ does indeed emerge."

In regards to these comments, Jane thought that less than a century was far too short of a time to encompass so many of the changes that Seth mentions in his second coming statements. As a result of this, Jane asked Rob to ask Seth if she had distorted this second coming data while delivering it (this information can be found beginning with the second sentence of Session 588, August 2, 1971).

In response to this, in this same session, Session 588, Seth says, "The birth will occur at the time given; by the time given (the year 2075). The other changes will occur generally over the period of a century, but the results will show far before that time."
"Because of the plastic nature of the future, in your terms, the data cannot be considered final. All probabilities point in its direction, however, for the inner impetus is already forming the events."


One of my primary concerns with many of your posts is that you seem to make a lot of "assumptions" about what Seth said, some of which are questionable. Then, you draw conclusions that are based upon these assumptions, and pass them off as being facts or truths.  As a case in point, in your statement above you say:

"Also i think the alien hypothesis about the origin of Christ or jesus is just a load of fairytales , Seth has never mentioned this , + he would have done, "

The statement, "+ he would have done", is an example of what I am referring to here. This is an assumption that you are making and it's not necessarily true. I don't recall Seth ever mentioning anything about Jesus being an alien, but if he didn't, there could in fact be many reasons why he didn't.

Then from here, you proceed on to say the following:

"+ because jesus came straight from the entity level + would have not have detoured so tp spk in an alien body or manifestation

Again, the statement, "+ would have not have detoured so tp spk in an alien body or manifestation ", is also an assumption that you are making and it's not necessarily true either.

Now, given what Seth told Jane and Rob in Seth Speaks as quoted above which was written in 1971, I'm extremely doubtful that in the remaining 13 years of Jane's life, Seth would have actually said that Paul was alive. 

However, I do believe that during that time, Seth may have made some statements about Paul, and as a result of this, you may have read them and made some "assumption" about those statements and took it to mean the Paul is alive.

In addition to this, I do think that it's possible that Seth may have said that Paul is alive now, in the same context that the dinosaurs are alive now, since, in the spacious present, all time is simultaneous. Furthermore, I also think that it's possible that Seth may have said something like, the spirit of Christ is alive today. However, neither one of these two statements would necessarily suggest what you are implying above, that Paul is alive now.


Personally, I don't care what you or anyone else believes on this forum believes. If you want to believe that Paul is alive now, that is OK with me.  However, my concern here is for the people who are new to the Seth information and come here to learn something more about Seth.

In this case I think the fact that you sometimes seem to make some questionable "assumptions" about what Seth said, then you draw your conclusions about these assumptions and finally pass them off as being some unquestionable truths regarding Seth's concepts, really does do a great disservice to those people who come to this forum and are new to Seth's concepts.

Fundamentally, this is the issue that I have with some of your posts at this forum.

I also think that your vast knowledge of the Seth information could be very helpful to this same group of people.  If you want to help these people out, you might want to take a second look at some of the assumptions that you make.

Just a thought.

[Sena]

Seth2 is the true entity/inner self , like the Christ entity (both of whom i would liken to gods at this level Sena)

Paul, I am pretty sure that Seth did not refer to Seth Two or the Christ entity as "gods". I accept that you have not stated explicitly that they are gods. You have only said that you liken them to gods. Yet it seems to me that your mention of "gods" here is an attempt to confuse the issue.

As you appear to have a somewhat distorted understanding of Seth Two, it will be useful to actually quote what Seth said:

"My own reincarnational personalities, probable selves, and even Seth Two exist
within me now, as I exist within them. In your terms, Seth Two is more advanced. In
your terms, he is more alien, since he cannot relate to your physical existence as well as
I do because of my background in it." (From Seth Speaks)

https://archive.org/stream/pdfy-56rRUG-ov0xn05ih/Jane%20Roberts%20-%20Seth%20Speaks_djvu.txt

When Seth says that Seth Two is more "alien" in our terms, we cannot assume that alien is synonymous with extraterrestrial, but we cannot exclude that possibility either. Furthermore when Seth says that Seth Two cannot relate to "your" physical existence, we cannot exclude the possibility that Seth Two has a different physical existence elsewhere. We cannot assume that our kind of physical existence is the only kind possible.

Quoting further from Seth Speaks:

"When Seth Two speaks, Ruburt initially is aware of the following: His consciousness
strains upward, following an inner psychic pathway, an energized funnel, until quite
simply it can go no further. It seems to him then that his consciousness goes out of his
body through an invisible pyramid whose open top stretches far up into space.

Here he seems to make contact with impersonal symbols whose message is somehow
automatically translated into words. That point actually represents a warp in
dimensions, a place between systems that has far more to do with energy and
psychological reality than it has to do with space, for space is meaningless."

The phrase "a warp in dimensions" suggests that Seth Two is an extra-dimensional entity rather than an extra-terrestrial one. But that still does not make him a god.

Seth referred to SethTwo and Christ as "entities". In Sethian terms, every human being is the manifestation of an entity. Therefore there must be millions of entitities. The nature of entities is evident in these quotes from The Seth Material:

"Seth also said that an inner part of each personality was aware of its relationship with its entity -- and that this portion did man's breathing for him and controlled those bodily processes that we consider involuntary."
—p.55

"What is a probable self? According to Seth, each of us has counterparts in other systems of reality; not identical selves or twins, but other selves who are part of our entity, developing abilities in a different way than we are here."
—-p.195

"Some personalities can be a part of more than one entity...Any personality can become an entity on its own." --p.245

http://seth-material.blogspot.com/2009/03/seth-book-seth-material-anathology.html



I cannot accept the Seth teachings as a body of dogma written in stone. He opened our eyes to many possibilities, and most of those possibilities remain to be discovered.

[jbseth]

Hi All,

For me, in regards to the question, "Who was Jesus?", this is definitely one of the most awe inspiring messages in all of the Seth information on this topic.   

(I'm sorry this post is a little long, but I believe you may find it interesting).


In Seth Speaks, Chapter 22, Session 591, in talking about Christ and the fact that he was not crucified, Seth talks about the Last Supper, where Christ said, "This is my body, and this is my blood". While making this statement, Christ was hinting that he should no longer be identified with his body, "For he knew the dead body would not be his." Then Seth says, "This was all misunderstood." "Christ then changed his mode of behavior, appearing quite often in out-of-body states to his followers."

Then later on, in the same session, Seth says, "He ate to prove he was still alive, for example (John 21, Luke 24, etc.), but they took this simply to mean that the spirit could partake of food."

In this last sentence, Seth seems to be implying that Christ was in some sort of "spirit" form when they saw him. 



Now, in the Early Sessions, book 2, Session 48, Rob had an experience where he saw a girl who was trying to open an office window inside an office building. In regards to Rob's experience, Seth had the following to say about these type of experiences.     


"In some instances the physical body stays in its original location, and the personality-essence moves through camouflage space and time. That is, the personality-essence, realizing that space and time are merely camouflages, is therefore free to behave accordingly."

"In this instance of traveling by personality-essence, any contact would be telepathic, and a potential observer would see nothing, using the outer senses alone."

In response to this comment, Rob asks, "Wouldn't such an occurrence frighten the observer or recipient?"

"Not in the instance mentioned. Another method is somewhat more complicated and involves a diffusion of energies, a partially-visible secondary camouflage body appearing in a new location, while the original body remains in its original position."

"In this case the body would appear visible on the bed while another, identical body would appear in the new location to which the personality-essence had traveled. In this case a potential observer would see what would appear to be an ordinary physical being."

"Conversation could then be carried on. There are gradations in the degree of materialization here, in that the secondary body would be absolutely normal-appearing in all respects, or could be less so, according to the ability of the traveler."


Now, in the Gospel of John, Chapter 20, verse 19, it says:

"Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. "


What both Seth and the Gospel of John, appear to be saying sounds very much like what is referred to as "bi-location", in some other philosophies.

When someone "bi-locates" they can physically appear or exist in 2 places at once.

In some of the books and stories that I've read and heard about, it has been claimed that some of the great gurus of various Eastern belief systems, have been able to levitate and bi-locate. In the book, "Autobiography of a Yogi", by Paramahansa, Yogananda, there are several examples of people bi-locating.



Now, can you imagine for just a second, what it must be like to be the follower of a teacher or guru and then, while in an enclosed room where all the windows and doors are locked, he suddenly materializes out of nowhere in from of you.

All I say is Whoa. That's incredible.

The bottom line here for me is this, we have several different sources here that seem to indicate that Jesus was actually able to bi-locate in front of his followers.  Whoever else he was, he must have been one incredibly gifted person.  

[jbseth]

Hi All

An interesting event just occurred and I thought I'd share it. This is slightly off topic but it is related to Christmas, which relates to Jesus, and so I thought I comment on it here.

My wife and I received a Christmas card in the mail yesterday from a good friend. On the front of the card is says: 

"The ornament of a house is the people who frequent it"
- Ralph Waldo Emerson

How perfect and timely.
According to Seth, Ralph Waldo Emerson was a "Speaker"

[voidypaul]

Hi jbseth ;
             ahh spunky,      i like it ,          maybe  somewhat imperious ,
              not quite spicy + hot ,                  but groovy anyway.
                   you say ,

Hi voidypaul,

In session 586 of Seth Speaks (July 24, 1971), Seth talks about the "Second Coming". In this same session he then says, "By 2075, all of this will be already accomplished."


  Paul ;

         you start off  with quote  "By 2075, all of this will be already accomplished."

          but you do not elucidate what it is that will  be already accomplished
         what you left out is rather important ,  Seth says ,

     ''He will not come to reward the righteous + send evil doers to etenal doom. He will however begin a new religious drama. A certain historical continuity will be maintained . As happend once b4 , however , he will not be generally known 4 who he is. There will be no glorious proclamation to which the whole world will bow. He will return to straighten out christianity , which will be in a shambles at the time of his arrival , + to set up a new system of thought when the world is sorely in need of one .
       By that time , all religions will be in a severe crisis . He will undermine religious organisations - not unite them . His massage will be that of the indiv' in relation to ATI . He will clearly state methods by which each indiv' can attain a state of intimate contact with his own entity ; the entiy to some extent being mans mediator with ATI .''

     And then he says  "By 2075, all of this will be already accomplished."

     So this to me clearly indicates that Christ will have made his appearence + probably be gone by 2075 .

     Just b4  he says this he also says ''The 3rd personality mentioned many times by me , has not in your terms yet appeared etc .......
                      + he says appeared , not born , a big difference as Seth was quite precise in what he said .

    When he says appeared he means (to me) that the Christ is not yet manifest in the person of paul or that paul  is not yet enlghtened  + does not mean that he is not yet born , he has just not yet made his appearence + for me he is alive + 'trying to work things out' ,  alive now .

    Seth goes on further to elaborate in the same session ,

   ''The 3rd historical personage , already born in your terms , + a portion of the entire Christ personality ......''

        How can he get more precise in what he said , i repeat

                    ''The 3rd historical personage , already born in your terms .


   (this is also the time when jane started to get her misgivings about what Seth has said because she could not believe the relatively short time period  , july 24)


   I do understand that some confusion arises when the next quote you used gets put in the mix + mainly because of Jane's doubts

     Session 588, Seth says, "The birth will occur at the time given; by the time given (the year 2075). The other changes will occur generally over the period of a century, but the results will show far before that time."

          I do think this a cryptic statement ,

      "The birth will occur at the time given; by the time given''   
                    Seth corrects himself , he initially says ''at the time given'' + then reclassifies it by saying         ''by the time given''
       
       ''at the time given''           means a more exact time    but,,,, his correction is,
       ''by the time given''           which means  up to  ,           +/or   including

     It is important to note that jane is having some sort of a problem with Seths initial comments from july 24 until this session on 2 aug , about a week , + jane did like to fret somewhat + definately blocked Seth on some subjects , most famously , on reincarnation .

    For me, in light of Seths previous statements, which convince me of this personage's already having been born ,       i tend to think that when he reclassified his statement to ''by the time given'' , he was making a concession to janes doubts + maybe blocking him slightly, but still remaining true to his previous statements that it will all be completed by 2075 by paul .

   i think the weight of evidence falls largely on the side of Seths initial statements which are for me quite clear + straight forward , rather than on the side of a rather cryptic statement made later + possibly tinged with janes disbelif etc .

     So i dont think i have been misleading at all , nor made any  'assumptions' , nor misread anything nor come to any wierd 'conclusions' .
     Please feel free to point out where you think i am at fault here or what you think is 'questionable' , seeing that this is  'one of your primary concerns' .

     You may prefer to stick with your interpretation from one single statement that i think is somewhat cryptic but i will stick to his clearest statements , his very 1st statements on this issue in sess 586  that i have given above +  which you chose to ignore , me old fruit.     

    There does seem to be an odd (to me) leaning or tendency for many sethies to quote 2075 as the birth of this personality , + im not quite sure why actually .



   I will get to your alien critisims soon but lets gnaw away at this old bone for a while  + see if we cant find some consensus somewhere here  1st    , as it is rather an important topic for many sethies .
   No i dont mind being critisised . i just get prickly sometimes .

       peace , paul

[Batfan007]

Seth2 is the true entity/inner self , like the Christ entity (both of whom i would liken to gods at this level Sena)

Paul, I am pretty sure that Seth did not refer to Seth Two or the Christ entity as "gods". I accept that you have not stated explicitly that they are gods. You have only said that you liken them to gods. Yet it seems to me that your mention of "gods" here is an attempt to confuse the issue.

As you appear to have a somewhat distorted understanding of Seth Two, it will be useful to actually quote what Seth said:

"My own reincarnational personalities, probable selves, and even Seth Two exist
within me now, as I exist within them. In your terms, Seth Two is more advanced. In
your terms, he is more alien, since he cannot relate to your physical existence as well as
I do because of my background in it." (From Seth Speaks)

https://archive.org/stream/pdfy-56rRUG-ov0xn05ih/Jane%20Roberts%20-%20Seth%20Speaks_djvu.txt

When Seth says that Seth Two is more "alien" in our terms, we cannot assume that alien is synonymous with extraterrestrial, but we cannot exclude that possibility either. Furthermore when Seth says that Seth Two cannot relate to "your" physical existence, we cannot exclude the possibility that Seth Two has a different physical existence elsewhere. We cannot assume that our kind of physical existence is the only kind possible.

Quoting further from Seth Speaks:

"When Seth Two speaks, Ruburt initially is aware of the following: His consciousness
strains upward, following an inner psychic pathway, an energized funnel, until quite
simply it can go no further. It seems to him then that his consciousness goes out of his
body through an invisible pyramid whose open top stretches far up into space.

Here he seems to make contact with impersonal symbols whose message is somehow
automatically translated into words. That point actually represents a warp in
dimensions, a place between systems that has far more to do with energy and
psychological reality than it has to do with space, for space is meaningless."

The phrase "a warp in dimensions" suggests that Seth Two is an extra-dimensional entity rather than an extra-terrestrial one. But that still does not make him a god.

Seth referred to SethTwo and Christ as "entities". In Sethian terms, every human being is the manifestation of an entity. Therefore there must be millions of entitities. The nature of entities is evident in these quotes from The Seth Material:

"Seth also said that an inner part of each personality was aware of its relationship with its entity -- and that this portion did man's breathing for him and controlled those bodily processes that we consider involuntary."
—p.55

"What is a probable self? According to Seth, each of us has counterparts in other systems of reality; not identical selves or twins, but other selves who are part of our entity, developing abilities in a different way than we are here."
—-p.195

"Some personalities can be a part of more than one entity...Any personality can become an entity on its own." --p.245

http://seth-material.blogspot.com/2009/03/seth-book-seth-material-anathology.html



I cannot accept the Seth teachings as a body of dogma written in stone. He opened our eyes to many possibilities, and most of those possibilities remain to be discovered.

Forgive me for over simplifying, but we can see evidence of this design within our own observable reality.

A tree grows from a seed, the mature "adult" tree bears fruits or nuts or seeds, that then can also grow into a tree and on and it goes.

Likewise entities.

Who are not limited by time or linear experience as the human portion of us is, and who expand outward in multiple dimensions and existences simultaneously, gaining new experiences from those existences and portions of itself, which benefit one another as well as the overall entity in a criss-crossing matrix of developments that knows no limits from our point of view.

I always got the impression that Seth 2 was a non-physical entity from Seth's descriptions, which are usually pretty consistent across the different books. Which as you said Sena, does no preclude Seth 2 from having had selves/experiences that are very different to our own.

"alien" in that context to me means foreign, if Seth was going to say extra-terrestrial, then he would have said so, or likely made a further clarification, as he was/is very particular about language, words and concepts and how in our system of reality many words and concepts can have multiple, sometimes contradictory or confusing meanings.

I do wish he has talked more about seth 2 over the years, but then that was not his primary purpose.......

[Batfan007]

Hi All,

For many years now, during every Christmas season, I always seem to be drawn to once again, take a  look at who Jesus was and what he did during his life.

Typically I begin feeling the urge to do this sometime after Halloween but sometime before Christmas.  Usually for me, I do this by pulling out various Seth books and reviewing what Seth had to say about Jesus. I keep wanting to put together a document that contains everything that Seth had to say about Jesus (my attempt to put together the "Jesus Book" that Jane and Rob never did) and perhaps some day I actually will. 


When I was a child, I pretty much believed what I was told about him as was stated in the Bible. 
I didn't know that much about him as we seldom went to church, but I did believe that he was born in Bethlehem, on December 25, and that there was a star and 3 wise men and angels at his birth.

However, by the time I got into high school, and started to understand what we know about the world from science, I started to doubt some of the stories that I had heard.  Did a Star really stop over Bethlehem, what kind of a star was this, etc.

As I grew older, I discovered some of the other religions in the world and began to wonder how we could know for sure which religion was correct.

Then in my mid 20's, I discovered Seth, who also has some interesting things to say about Jesus.

Years later, I discovered that there are many historical scholars who have extensively analyzing the New Testament for over 200 years. They too, have some interesting things to share about Jesus.

I still don't know much about who Jesus was or what he said but I certainly do know a lot more about the various religions of the world, Seth's ideas and New Testament scholarship than I use to.


Does anyone have any thoughts or insights about Jesus that they'd like to share with the rest of us?


   

Hmmm, it's not my topic, but what I have seen so far is that there are 100 different Jesus', not literally, but if you look at the various books and such around, there are many diff versions of Jesus as there are people who read books or ponder these ideas.

Whether we see it a fiction, non-fiction, schizophrenia or evidence of a multidimensional entities not limited to any one version of events - really makes no diff to me at the end of the day.
From my perspective people find and encounter whatever figures and characters most appeal to them, or inspire them in some way.

The meaning we find is personal. To me on a personal and entirely subjective level, Jesus is an expression of divine love, as is Krsna.
I've known friends over the years from different faiths, and no two people I have met have ever had the same idea about who or what Jesus was, or what he meant personally to them.

So the perspectives then, are infinite.

[Sena]

"alien" in that context to me means foreign, if Seth was going to say extra-terrestrial,

Batfan, yes that would seem to be a reasonable interpretation. What do you think of the "warp in dimensions" bit? It is quite possible that all apparently extra-terrestrial phenomena are actually extra-dimensional, because they don't seem to be subject to the physical laws of our known universe. So-called alien beings are said to often exhibit the phenomenon of levitation, which means that the laws of gravity are not operating.

Who was it who walked on water?

[Batfan007]

"alien" in that context to me means foreign, if Seth was going to say extra-terrestrial,

Batfan, yes that would seem to be a reasonable interpretation. What do you think of the "warp in dimensions" bit? It is quite possible that all apparently extra-terrestrial phenomena are actually extra-dimensional, because they don't seem to be subject to the physical laws of our known universe. So-called alien beings are said to often exhibit the phenomenon of levitation, which means that the laws of gravity are not operating.

Who was it who walked on water?

I don't have anything new to say on that topic. It's territory that has already been covered a fair bit, and does not really interest me.

non-native species, be they physical or non-physical (carbon based life forms etc) appearing in this system through bleed throughs in dimensions are going to appear different, to diff people with diff beliefs, in diff eras etc, as they take on some form of camouflage  that is quite quite of their system, and not quite of ours, resulting in distortions in perceptions, and unreliable "witness" accounts from people who were at the same place and time, but saw quite different things.

Seth talked about this a bit here and there.

Alien to me would be ANY type of life form or entity not of earth and our local system in the broad context, but more often we use the term to refer to beings who have some type of incarnation who are not of earth.
It's a topic I find boring as there is much irrational and non-nonsensical sensationalist literature on the topic and very little intelligent conversation to find.

If we have ever incarnated into a different system, then technically we would be aliens too. If time is simultaneous, and everything has already happened, then.......

[voidypaul]

Hi Sena    ;  you say ,

               '' Paul, I am pretty sure that Seth did not refer to Seth Two or the Christ entity as "gods". I accept that you have not stated explicitly that they are gods. You have only said that you liken them to gods. Yet it seems to me that your mention of "gods" here is an attempt to confuse the issue.

As you appear to have a somewhat distorted understanding of Seth Two, it will be useful to actually quote what Seth said:''

paul   ;
          Well this is my so called distorted understanding as you say Sena .

          Seth2 is a nonphysical entity who has never been physically materialised in any form himself .
          not even as some alien in the universe somewhere .

          Seth2 did create Seth1 to inhabit the phys' univ' but did not enter into the phys' univ' in an incarnated phys' form at any time himself ,

          In the same way Seth2 has created Seth1 he has also im sure created many alien personas in many different species on many diff' worlds but still not having to take on any phys' form himself .

         + you go on to say Sena ,

         'The phrase "a warp in dimensions" suggests that Seth Two is an extra-dimensional entity rather than an extra-terrestrial one. But that still does not make him a god.'

paul ;
         i agree that Seth2 is an extra-dimensional or multidimensional entity ,  who exists in an electrical reality at an undifferetiated level , which i call void-states , where no thoughts or images exist as we know them.

         In our terms i think Seth2 is most definately a god , as he is one of the initiators/creators of phys' reality in the 1st instance + he also constantly sends energy into the whole phys' univ'l system to help sustain it + who has perhaps  inf' incarnations like our Seth whom he has seeded throughout multiple univ's , +  without ever having been born in any of them himself  .

         A massive entity in every sense of the word +  even beyond godhood as we can concieve of it .
         i think Seth said that Seth2 is at the outskirts of a pyramid gestalt + has joined together with other such advanced entitys.   Which seems to imply that there are many levels of advancement at the entity level , ie , our Seth is an entity but is not on the same level of awareness/reality as Seth2 .

         This is all clear from the Seth2 sessions .

        So what is so distorted about this Sena ?

          peace , paul

[sethspeaks]

Hi Voidypaul,
There was:
"The third historical personage, already born in your terms, and a portion of the entire Christ personality, took upon himself the role of a zealot."
Seth spoke about St. Paul

[Sena]

In our terms i think Seth2 is most definately a god , as he is one of the initiators/creators of phys' reality in the 1st instance +

Paul, I think that is your imagination when you say Seth2 is a god. If you maintain that Seth said that, please provide the reference.
As for being a creator of physical reality, according to Seth every one of us creates our own reality.

You wrote:

i think Seth said that Seth2 is at the outskirts of a pyramid gestalt + has joined together with other such advanced entitys.   Which seems to imply that there are many levels of advancement at the entity level , ie , our Seth is an entity but is not on the same level of awareness/reality as Seth2 .

Perhaps this is the quote you are referring to:

"None of us are ever equipped, for general purposes, to perceive reality in all of its forms. The pyramid gestalts can do this, and we help the pyramid gestalts perform this feat. But as a rule we must pick and choose. There is too much for any consciousness to digest except those so highly developed that even I know little of them."
Session 297

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Jane_Roberts

I agree that it is quite reasonable to say that Seth Two is "very highly developed" compared to Seth. One of the appealing things about Seth is that he refrained from referring to an entity as a "god" or even as a "Master". Are you using the word god as synonymous with Master? It was Blavatsky and the theosophists who popularized this terminology, and perhaps you have been influenced by them.

[voidypaul]

Hi  sethspeaks  ;

                   "The third historical personage, already born in your terms, and a portion of the entire Christ personality, took upon himself the role of a zealot."

            yes thats the quote i was refering to  + i agree that Seth went on to talk about the zealot in those passages as being st paul (but my feeling is that he wanted to describe what the old paul was like + in relation to the new paul)

            why would Seth say  '' already born in your terms''

           a) + y wouldnt  he have said  ''already born + died in your terms'' or ''already born once b4 in your terms''  or something more according to the past in which paul/saul lived ?   

           b)  in your terms ,  suggests the here + now to me  ,   rather than a long time ago in paul/sauls time
 
           c) ''historical personage''    also implies to me an historical timeline in terms of  atlantis being the 1st personage , jesus  the 2nd ,  + now ,  'our' paul ,   as being the 3rd historical personage 
                     
           d)  + he used the word 'personage' rather than say the 3rd 'personality' as he did previously in the session, so a definite change of terminology for a specific reason ,  i would suggest .
           
         I do find Seth to be rather ambiguous/cryptic about the whole topic actually + this is unusual for him ,  tho not surprising as he said he did not want to cause the wrong reactions or something + it is true . And of course ,  i could well be reading more into his specific use of words here , than may actually be there .

         i do see how it can be simply read as Seth refering to paul/saul in the entirety of this passage + not as i have done , seen it as him just describing the past personality from which the new paul/personage has come + from whom  is ''already born'' .       To me it can read both ways .
   
        + i am reminded of Seth's other odd statement 2 sessions later , + because of jane's doubts
             
         ''The 3rd personality mentioned many times by me , has not in your terms yet appeared''

          + again  wonder y he used the specific word ''appeared'' rather than born ?
         

                              when i put the 2 cryptic (2 me) sentences together like this ,

                              "The third historical personage ,        already born in your terms
''The 3rd personality mentioned many times by me ,        has not in your terms yet appeared

    And read , as i played with them

     The third historical personage ,   already born in your terms , has not in your terms yet appeared       or     
     The 3rd personality mentioned many times by me ,   already born in your terms , has not in your terms yet appeared       

                + tho it is just a play on words , it took my fancy + i remain fairly convinced of my interpretation tho i do have some doubts , as i also agree with your reading of it too ,   as i  said ,   for me it can work both ways .

                but because Seth had already + initially stated that pauls mission ''will be already accomplished'' by 2075 , without any seeming ambiguity   ,      i still lean to that side .

            Seths further elaboration , 2 sessions later ,  because of Janes doubts (church/catholic etc), also to me remains in the rather ambiguous camp (with the row of pink tents in it)
                                                  ''the birth will occur at the time given; by the time given''
         

            Why did Seth add   ''by the time given'' anyway ?

            by  ;   means ;   ''indicating a deadline or the end of a particular time period''  googled ,
                                 so the birth can be any time before , or up to ,   2075  .

            + i have given my thoughts on that already . These passages have niggled away at me for some time which very few of Seths statements have done in this ambiguous/cryptic sort of a way .

           so , i hope you can see where im coming from Sethspks , im not necessarily saying i am right but have to make myself clear + draw the lines in terms of a debate so that it can be seen exactly where i am coming from , so to spk , which somehow upset jbseth's sensitivities but i hope he will come to the conclusion that it is just  me drawing my lines + perhaps playing devils advocate a tad too intently .   
           i may seem brash or arrogant sometimes , which is not meant to personally offend anyone but i'd hope the overall effect is that not many are left with much doubt as to where i do stand (at least for the while) + even if it might be on shaky ground  .
         if i ever do personally offend you or anyone i hope you or they would say so at the time + quote me + i will apologise , as i did to Sena after pushing maybe too much on his sensitivities , even tho he did not say so as such , at the time .

             peace , paul

[sethspeaks]

Hi voidypaul,
I think that Seth talked about Paul's last incarnation. Since that time between lives should be a few years / I thing Seth spoke about max 300, Paul was born 2000 years ago / it's interesting proposition.

[voidypaul]

Hi sethspeaks  ;

                    you make a good point about the time (300yrs) between lives + i'd imagine that our paul will have incarnated several times b4 our time , but perhaps unaware of his connections to the Christ entity nor to jesus etc , except in his dreams .

                   Is paul alive now ? i think he could be for the reasons given but maybe not , its all in the way you like to interpret Seths statements in these sessions .

             

[sethspeaks]

Hi Voidypaul,
I agree with your interpretation of the year 2075. In my opinion, the third personality born and died between the years 1971-2075. Probably is alive.