Dreams and Lucid Dreams

[Deb]

You can learn to change your physical environment... by learning to change and manipulate your dream environment. You can also suggest specific dreams in which a desired change is seen, and under certain conditions these will then appear in your physical reality. Now often you do this without realizing. SS Ses. 514

In physical life there is a lag between the conception of an idea and its physical construction. In dream reality, this is not so. Therefore, the best way to become acquainted with after-death reality ahead of time, so to speak, is to explore and understand the nature of your own dreaming self. No very many people want to take the time or energy.

In the sleeping state, you have memory of everyone you have ever met in your dreams, though you may or may not have met some of these people in your daytime existence. In the sleeping state you may have constant experience through the years with close associates who may live in another portion of the world entirely, and be strangers to you in the waking state.

As your daily endeavors have meaning and purpose, so do your dream adventures, and in these also you attain various goals of your own.

In dreams you solve problems. In the daytime you are (only) consciously aware of the methods of problem solving that you learned in sleep. All SS Ses. 538

[Deb]

I've always had vivid dreams, and loads of them. I don't remember everything, but I do remember a lot. Sometimes they're exhausting.

"You can learn to change your physical environment... by learning to change and manipulate your dream environment."

I've had several lucid dreams, but I can't make myself have one with any regularity. I've only consciously made myself lucid dream twice (due to pure determination while I was falling asleep). But for a while I had enough in a row, about a year ago, that I started testing the dream environment. I would tell myself to do the tests while I was still awake. They included:

Observation of details--this blows my mind! I remember being in a large room with racks of printed paper draped over wooden dowels. The room appeared to be a richly decorated library. I pulled a paper off the rack to see if I could read it, and I could. I looked around at the beauty of the room and thought to myself, "how could I make all of this detail in a dream?" It was awesome. I had a similar experience with observing the outside of a modern office building -- I know nothing about architecture but was blown away by what I had "manufactured" in my dream.

Taste: I was wearing my navy pea coat in a dream and realized I was dreaming. I reached into my right pocket and found a lemon drop with a small piece cracked off. I did a taste test, and found that it tasted the same as when I'm awake. Interestingly, I don't eat sugar at all when I'm awake.

Smell: Smelling a flower and thinking it didn't smell as strongly as it does when I'm awake.

Feel: Touching things such as walls, fabric, metal, people and finding they feel the same.

Looking for a mirror to see what I look like in the dream. I did this one twice and it scared me a little bit since the people in the mirror did not look like the me I'm used to. In the second dream, the person in the mirror kept changing slightly.

Creating or changing matter or my location: Fun and amazing stuff here. Also little things like flying, breathing under water etc.

In case I'm sounding a bit off my rocker here, I assure you that lucid dreaming is real. Just Google it, there are institutes devoted to learning more about it. I've actually been a contributor.

The worst thing for me is realizing I'm in a dream and as soon as I do, I pop out again. That's very disappointing.

[Bumblebee]

Lately I've been working with my dreams a lot. What is new is the time frame. I use to be able to tell what dream came first, then second, etc. Now I seem to be dreaming different dreams at the same time. They intertwine. For example, I'm in the second world war and trying to save two people, a couple, by slipping into their bodies to direct them to a hiding place. I try to do this fast as time is short. At the same time I am myself running in a house and trying to hide in the cellar, in another time frame, looks more like the '80s or not in a country I know, and three men circle me; they tell me not to be afraid, that with my permission they want to initiate me to something psychic. Now in order to be able to explain it, I've separated this in 2 parts, but I am actually living this at the same time.

I've also experienced lately dreams that seem much further away from our walking reality. I've seen a day in a solid, opaque  3D bloc, shaped as an "n" with corners cut off. It was floating somewhere and I was manipulating it with my mind. It seemed quite a natural thing to do. I also slid down the line of a drawing. I could see the pigments on the paper. It was quite fun. It had "relief", like a  slide but with  gravity, so I didn't have to go actually down to gain speed. It was orchestrated more from my desire of speed. It was like I was creating the ride as I went. I felt very free.

I sometimes know I am dreaming but I rarely take advantage of it except to breath underwater. It never occurred to me to actually test it. Didn't we already have this conversation in another forum?? 

[Deb]

Didn't we already have this conversation in another forum?? 

We probably did on the Seth Intensive.  You have some really interesting dreams, it almost seems like you may be recalling some training you're getting during the sleep state. The 3D day is especially interesting to me, wow!

I've had some trouble recalling my dreams lately, maybe because my sleep schedule has been so wacky. What I do recall are struggles to find my way, through maze-like buildings and some slide-like rides too, which probably reflects my waking mental state right now. I should probably make it a point to explore that, I'm usually pretty good with solving my daytime problems during sleep. But this stuff is not going away. I miss the lucid dreams...

[BethAnne]

Now in order to be able to explain it, I've separated this in 2 parts, but I am actually living this at the same time.

I wonder if it is similar to when a person fragments into multiple personalities when dealing with trauma as a child?  Did all levels have the same theme?  or same concept from different perspectives?

[John Sorensen]

Didn't we already have this conversation in another forum?? 

We probably did on the Seth Intensive.  You have some really interesting dreams, it almost seems like you may be recalling some training you're getting during the sleep state. The 3D day is especially interesting to me, wow!

I've had some trouble recalling my dreams lately, maybe because my sleep schedule has been so wacky. What I do recall are struggles to find my way, through maze-like buildings and some slide-like rides too, which probably reflects my waking mental state right now. I should probably make it a point to explore that, I'm usually pretty good with solving my daytime problems during sleep. But this stuff is not going away. I miss the lucid dreams...

Have you tried waking up for 5 minutes during the middle of your night sleep? Recall is generally easier than at the end of your sleep in the morning. Or can you stay in that twilight (theta doing down to alpa) when you are semi-awake in the morning? I slip in and out of the dream state often in the early morning as I wake up (from Delta/ to Theta to Alpha to Beta) I keep going from Theta to Alpha, holding in Alpha I can recall pretty much anything.

But more often I lay in that state and write my articles / play with the ideas, themes and outline, and whatever I write is sort of "cued up" from that state, then it's just a matter of getting it down, walking away and coming back to edit the next day or whatever.

Anyhow, you will remember what you will, or perhaps you are taking a break from that type of focus as you fully digest your recent experiences?

[serge]

To me dreams are the main gate out of waking consciousness. I have become better at remembering my dreams, or some of them. Or a better way to put it perhaps, I can often piece together some elements of my dreams and try to make sense of them. I have not been too successful at lucid dreams, the strategy suggested by various writers did not do much for me except one. I succeded a few times  becoming aware of my dreams in the hypnopompic state (before waking up, in the twilight zone) .  I experienced the joy of flying with a good deal of control, not for long but enough to be able to reflect on what I was doing and to observe the surroundings. In one case I initiated lucidity by saying to myself in my half asleep state that if I thought of myself as being out of my body it would happen. The will was quite strong and the body did not oppose it. I found myself up in the air flying gently above a  beautiful forest path. Then I ordered myself to fly higher and the sky became darker, I thought of flying to Bonn (Germany) to surprise an ex girl friend in the middle of the night, but I panicked and came back to my body. In another instance, also in the wee morning hours I left my sleeping body to fly over our garden. The flight was not firm nor elegant; it was more like a series of successful jumps. But what mattered to me was that the considerable degree of self awareness that I experienced. I am now working at establishing this turkey flight style into a trigger for early morning lucid dreams (or maybe I should call this OBEs since at my modest level  flights are not unlike Robert Monroe's. Although I think that as a child, up to teenage, I was sometimes experiencing out of body excursions which disappeared later, I have only been able to understand what the dream  (or astral)world is i last year.
The other paranormal adventures that I have had  and I could not explain were; Event No 1. It happen only once: in the middle of the night I woke up as saw something absolutely amazing. My wife's body was sleeping peacefully beside me,breathing gently and... about six inches above her body there was a dupplicate of her body composed entirely of minuscule luminescent particules (like a city at night seen from the air). I tried to touch the  body of light but this made it disappear. The other major event in my life was, too, several decades ago and happened only once. It was a saturday morning around 10 am and I was routinely washing my face looking at myself in the bathroom mirror. Then something happened that shocked me so much that for a minute or so I denied it was real: instead of me in the mirror there was a man looking like me, same heigth, much stronger body, hairy and the face of a neanderthal man. This double was me; doing exactly what I was doing with the same expression of worried surprise.
Having had these events, the desire to find out about life beyond the physical body never left me.

[BethAnne]

Cool dreams.  I can't imagine how I'd feel seeing a different face staring back.  Wonder what your doppelganger thought of you?

[John Sorensen]

To me dreams are the main gate out of waking consciousness. I have become better at remembering my dreams, or some of them. Or a better way to put it perhaps, I can often piece together some elements of my dreams and try to make sense of them. I have not been too successful at lucid dreams, the strategy suggested by various writers did not do much for me except one.

Hey Serge, thanks for sharing your experiences. Keep going and you'll have all the experience you want then some. Treat it like brushing your teeth. You just keep doing what you do regularly and you'll get results.

It's an odd thing when we do what works, and get what we want, but then we stop doing what works, and wonder why we don't get what we want.
The key is to just keep doing whatever works for you.

[Deb]

Have you tried waking up for 5 minutes during the middle of your night sleep? Recall is generally easier than at the end of your sleep in the morning. Or can you stay in that twilight (theta doing down to alpa) when you are semi-awake in the morning? I slip in and out of the dream state often in the early morning as I wake up (from Delta/ to Theta to Alpha to Beta) I keep going from Theta to Alpha, holding in Alpha I can recall pretty much anything.

Somehow I never got notified of these new posts!
How does one wake up for 5 minutes during sleep? Autosuggestion? I tend to have my most intense dreams (or maybe it's only that I recall them?) in the morning. If I wake up at 3 or 4 am and manage to get back to sleep at some point, the dreams are very vibrant and easy to recall. And I do have some twilight-state hallucinations (what I call them), sort of half dream/half reality.

I think you're right, I feel I may be taking a break from focusing on my dreams. A few nights ago I had a dream that barrie and I were talking about something having to do with this forum. Even days later I have that "more real than a dream" feeling about it. I love those. It reminds me of Constantine, what Keanu said about cats having "one foot in, one foot out" of hell. But for me it's dreams.

instead of me in the mirror there was a man looking like me, same heigth, much stronger body, hairy and the face of a neanderthal man. This double was me; doing exactly what I was doing with the same expression of worried surprise.

Now that's amazing, considering you were awake. Can't blame that on the twilight-state. Again I am reminded of my friend who saw a man walking towards her in her house (she lives alone). Just an ordinary modern day middle-aged guy, balding, walking towards her as she was walking towards him. He looked surprised/shocked to see her. She's a paranormal investigator so she thought she saw a ghost, but it could have been bleed-through of an incarnation. A probable self would look like ourselves, maybe just a different age if anything, I would think.

[serge]

When I saw the neanderthal man in the mirror and when I got over the shock, there was absolutely no hesitation in my mind that no matter how puzling, this was me and it was ...now. The figure resembled my XXth century self with the coarse features of a neanderthal. Reflecting on the event that day my mind went to accounts of time traveling or time warp situations. But now after reading Seth's book I am begining to wonder whether I ,as an entity, am actually living various simultaneous (in our terms) lives and that encounters with  other selves are possible, given certain conditions.
That very saturday morning I was in a perfectly normal condition. A man in his 30s who did not drink, did not do recreational drugs. (Earlier in life I had smoked a bit of pot socially like anyone else. And I had a one time experience with LSD). The day of the neanderthal,  I was therefore Mr anybody and at 10 am, perfectly awake, shaving and brushing my teeth. At some point later in life I read stories of tourists visiting Versailles and passing ghostly XVIII th century figures walking and chatting near the Grand Trianon. But these tourists, unlike me, saw other people generally minding their own business and being totally unaware of being watched by XXth century humans.


Thanks Deb for the story about your friend's encounter. I do hope that if some readers on this forum had similar experiences they will share them with us and that the discussion will perhaps bring some light to Seth's notion that there is no time and no space other than in what we create.

[John Sorensen]

Have you tried waking up for 5 minutes during the middle of your night sleep? Recall is generally easier than at the end of your sleep in the morning. Or can you stay in that twilight (theta doing down to alpa) when you are semi-awake in the morning? I slip in and out of the dream state often in the early morning as I wake up (from Delta/ to Theta to Alpha to Beta) I keep going from Theta to Alpha, holding in Alpha I can recall pretty much anything.

Somehow I never got notified of these new posts!
How does one wake up for 5 minutes during sleep? Autosuggestion? I tend to have my most intense dreams (or maybe it's only that I recall them?) in the morning. If I wake up at 3 or 4 am and manage to get back to sleep at some point, the dreams are very vibrant and easy to recall. And I do have some twilight-state hallucinations (what I call them), sort of half dream/half reality.

I've used three methods:

*Autosuggestion before sleeping
*Pee method - drink a glass of water before going to bed
*Set an alarm (not a regular meep meep meep annoying alarm, something softer that is not jarring like on your phone)

The alarm method is my least preferred as it tends to "jolt" you awake, and is not so conducive to recall, it's more of  a last resort.
An alternate method combines two of them.
Set an alarm for the same time every night for like a week. When you wake up, just go back to sleep again and don't actually do anything.

The next week you will wake up as the same time without the alarm, you will have the "habit", you can still give yourself the suggestion before going to sleep of course.

I find autosuggestion works best for me, and it works best when done consistently. But I don't want to wake up to recall dreams 7 nights a week, I value my sleep. So I would just choose say 3 days in a row in any week for example.

[Deb]

Set an alarm for the same time every night for like a week. When you wake up, just go back to sleep again and don't actually do anything.

Thanks for the suggestions. I tend to wake up a lot anyway, usually about 3 am, so it should be easy enough for me to try this out. I used to be able to wake myself up in the morning using autosuggestion. I don't understand why that works, I think I have no concept of time while I'm sleeping, but them that's the "conscious" me. I'll let you know how I do.

[John Sorensen]

I don't know how to explain it, but your body always knows what time it is.

[Wren]

Is there any way to become more aware and questioning and less-accepting of what is happening during dreams? I've been keeping a dream diary and am noticing recurring themes and people/characters, however I'm very accepting of what I'm dreaming. I'm perfectly OK with seeing my long-dead cat/famous actors/dinosaurs and not wondering whether I'm could be dreaming! 

Any tips?

[Deb]

Any tips?

I know, I'm back there again myself.

All I can tell you is that the lucid dreaming website recommends reality testing among other things (more techniques here). I tried that, plus Dreamsigns (addresses your dead cat and movie stars) and MILD (setting the intention to do something in a dream) a year or so ago and it worked for me at the time. Then I lost my abilities. I need to start practicing again.

[Wren]

I know, I'm back there again myself.

All I can tell you is that the lucid dreaming website recommends reality testing among other things (more techniques here). I tried that, plus Dreamsigns (addresses your dead cat and movie stars) and MILD (setting the intention to do something in a dream) a year or so ago and it worked for me at the time. Then I lost my abilities. I need to start practicing again.

Reality testing - the only time I was questioning enough in a dream to try a reality test (one that I had been practicising - putting my fingers through my hand), it didn't work. My dream fingers stopped at my dream palm so I concluded I wasn't dreaming. D'oh! I now know you have to try more than one test.

Dream signs - I'm just exploring this. My dream signs tend to be contextual (yep -  the beloved dead moggie etc) and occasionally are objects (a couple of times I've worn shoes that I could never wear in physical reality, for example).  A few times I've floated/flown but have usually accepted it or not being aware enough to become properly lucid.

[Deb]

You'll have to let me know if you make any progress.
Tonight I will start with the techniques, once again.

[Wren]

Went to bed last night with intention again, woke up at 2.30am with some recall. Decided to use the unexpected awakening as a sort of WBTB so ended up using a loose MILD method as going off to sleep 'Next time I'm dreaming, I'll realise I'm dreaming'. Woken up by alarm as normal and although my dream recall was better (it usually is after waking up during the night), I still have the same problem of not enough awareness to spot dreamsigns and the same old themes running through my dreams.

I think I will have to try regular, disciplined, reality-testing during the day and working on my LD beliefs, as I have must have a belief that it's "difficult" and "tricky". Gotta keep trying!

[Sena]

Perhaps it is best to not try too hard to get something from your dreams. If your "Higher Self" has a message for you it will get it across to you when the time is right. This happened to me last November, and since then my dreams have been fairly ordinary.

[serge]

Is there any way to become more aware and questioning and less-accepting of what is happening during dreams? I've been keeping a dream diary and am noticing recurring themes and people/characters, however I'm very accepting of what I'm dreaming. I'm perfectly OK with seeing my long-dead cat/famous actors/dinosaurs and not wondering whether I'm could be dreaming! 

Any tips?

I can only tell you what I do and it may not be what you want. I do not pursue lucidity in a structured way; rather I look at it as something that I know will happen from time to time and that is good enough for me. When it occurs, I become lucid in the hypnopompic state (early morning before waking, in the twilight zone). The circumstances are always the same: in the middle of a dream I perceive the twisted rationality of what is happening, or the reality (in waking terms) of  objects and people I meet. I never trained myself to do that and I don't need to look at my melting hands to know that I am dreaming. I read however many book on the subject and followed none. These authors to be fair managed  collectively  to wake my curiosity, or if you like gave me a «default» attitude:   to question a dream whenever I can in the wee hours of the morning.  My lucid dreams don't last much . I manage to fly  and travel a bit, talk to dream figures, etc. But I never have the feeling that I can control my dreams. I know this is the goal to some folks but I am not fanatical about this. The reason is that I look at the dream world as a world in itself with rules that differ from the physical world. My own self is.... someone else. From dream to dream there are elements of continuity therefore a «reality», just like it does in the physical existence. The dream state includes coherent memories of previous dreams.
What I believe is that active  attempts to control dreams as suggested by experienced lucid dreamers '  brings to bear an external (to the dream) factor which could be called: «imagination». The dream world, like the physical world allows imagination to mix with the «reality» at hand. As the dreamer becomes lucid he-she projects waking life memories into the dream, in this changing the very nature (or coherence)of the dream . What I try to do (and I am not saying that I am right or wrong) is to be aware that I dream , participate to the fullest.... and try.... not to analyse it too much. 

[Sena]

With reference to my post of yesterday, I would like to clarify the term "Higher Self". To my knowledge, neither Seth nor Jane Roberts used that exact term. There are, however, a couple of statements in the Introduction to "The Nature of Personal Reality" which appear to refer to this concept:

.... I think that the selves we know in normal life are only the three-dimensional actualizations of other source selves from which we receive our energy and life......For that matter, the origin of any personality is mysterious and not apparent in the objective world.

[John Sorensen]

They used the term over soul, which means that same thing.

[Sena]

John, thanks for pointing out that Oversoul is the Seth/Jane Roberts equivalent of Higher Self.

[Wren]

Tried mugwort tea last night. It's quite easy to obtain so I thought I would give it a go, as it is associated with dreams/lucid dreams. I brewed it for 5 minutes and drank it before bed. It has a reasonable, quite mild taste but seemed to give me an instant mini-headache, which persisted through most of today. I got to sleep as normal, and as expected with the mugwort, sleep was lighter and I didn't feel as rested in the morning. Dream recall was improved, but vividness and awareness were not. Because of the side-effects I won't be trying this again until the weekend.

One thing I have realised is that, despite being quite a solitary person, I'm never alone in my dreams. I'm either with a group of people, or in a crowd, or with my parents, or at a party, or a new boyfriend (another one last night!). I seem to be constantly on the move, meeting up with people and most of these people (apart from family & celebs!), I do not know in Framework 1. All I can assume is that they are people from other probabilities or frameworks.

[Wren]

A bit of progress! Lots of dreams recalled last night but in the middle of them, I dreamt I was at my parents' house (again), in the lounge. Someone famous who died weeks ago was pictured on TV. I started to question this: 'Why is he on TV again, he's dead?' Then it began to dawn on me that maybe I was dreaming. I didn't become tremendously lucid or start seeing stuff vividly but when I started to float horizontally above the ground I decided to test it out. So I tried to put my hand through the glass patio door and it went straight through. 'Aha!' I thought.  I was determined to keep calm as I didn't want to wake myself up. I passed effortlessly through the patio door to the garden beyond. I remembered my question, which I had decided on previously, to address to the Awareness behind the dream. I shouted my question but there was no reply and this dream faded and I ended up finishing off a previous dream from the night.

Woke up quite pleased this time. 

[Sena]

Great that you efforts paid off.

[Wren]

Thanks, it's good to know that I can still question my dreams after not doing it for such a long time.

[Deb]

Woke up quite pleased this time.

I would say you've made a LOT of progress, more than I can say for myself!
It's very exciting to read about your dream experiences, very inspirational. I'm going to look for mugwort tea. I've heard of mugwort before (hah, it sounds so Harry Potterish).

I suppose I can grow my own if I can't find it in stores.

[Wren]

I would say you've made a LOT of progress, more than I can say for myself!
It's very exciting to read about your dream experiences, very inspirational. I'm going to look for mugwort tea. I've heard of mugwort before (hah, it sounds so Harry Potterish).

I suppose I can grow my own if I can't find it in stores.

I ordered mine online, I don't know about US shops but I doubt I would be able to find it even in a healthfood shop in the UK.

[Wren]

I forgot to add that mugwort should NEVER be taken during pregnancy as it can affect the womb.

Tried it again last night and it had no effect on my sleep at all. Maybe it's time to increase the dosage (I was using one teaspoon per mug).

[BethAnne]

All I can assume is that they are people from other probabilities or frameworks.

Last summer I met 6 people I had been dreaming about for over 15 years. 
A couple of months before I started running into these people I had a dream of someone tattooing  on my hand  a circle inside a circle inside a square.  The inner circle was a vortex that opened to outer space. 
Later that morning I got off the bus and there in the sand someone had drawn that same symbol.
A couple months later I looked at my Target bag hanging on my door knob and I realized it was the symbol that was saying "This is the Target" and all these people I'd been dreaming of started to show up.

Tied to the Target dream were several where I lived in a Pyramid with blond wood floors with the theme of an unresolved Egyptian life.  Well now I have those wood floors and live next to Mr. Ramsey. 

[Wren]

All I can assume is that they are people from other probabilities or frameworks.

Last summer I met 6 people I had been dreaming about for over 15 years. 
A couple of months before I started running into these people I had a dream of someone tattooing  on my hand  a circle inside a circle inside a square.  The inner circle was a vortex that opened to outer space. 
Later that morning I got off the bus and there in the sand someone had drawn that same symbol.
A couple months later I looked at my Target bag hanging on my door knob and I realized it was the symbol that was saying "This is the Target" and all these people I'd been dreaming of started to show up.

Tied to the Target dream were several where I lived in a Pyramid with blond wood floors with the theme of an unresolved Egyptian life.  Well now I have those wood floors and live next to Mr. Ramsey. 

Great story!

[BethAnne]

So a couple of nights ago I was dreaming that I was in the Pyramid and singing silent Angel songs to Mr. Ramsey...he on his side of the pyramid and me on mine with a large theater between us.

In real life the next morning there was about 30 feet of white feathers scattered in front of our apartments like snow, at the spot where I was singing in my dream.  Bits of bird with feathers stuck scattered over my car.
In real life I'm sure a hawk got one of the town pigeons.  Still, the coincidence was unnerving.

[BethAnne]

I just realized that the spot where the feathers are was where the half dozen cops stood last month for my Little Drama.  (It's a small town and a bunch showed up out of curiosity)  And the car got beat up hence the bird bits sprinkled all over.   
I don't know how much all that is really connected but it does make for a good metaphor.

[BethAnne]

The next day in Real Life the Albino  Robin returned  (not my photo)  It comes up to my screen  door while I'm drinking coffee.

[Wren]

A lucid dreaming book I read suggested inhaling clary sage essential oil before bed. I saw my local health food shop had it half-price so I got some and it makes recall a tiny bit easier, I think. Unfortunately, after reaching a goal I had set myself to become lucid or at least question my dream by a certain date, I've lost my impetus to keep going with my attempt. Coupled with new noisy neighbours upstairs and some insomnia, my main quest was just to get enough sleep. So I'm going to set another goal and get back into the habit of questioning whether I am  awake or not and being less lazy with my dream diary. 

[Wren]

Lots of lucid dreaming website talk about vitamin B6 so I thought I would give it a try. Last night I took 250mg of B6 about an hour before bed and dream recall was much improved - it was almost like I was recording the dreams while they were happening (like in RL), rather than me trying to remember them when I woke up, if that makes sense. No lucidity or heightened awareness though.

I might try it again tonight, but long term/frequent use of B6 at high doses is not recommended, as it can lead to nerve damage. I may drop down to 100mg and see if that also works.