Author Topic: Can the causal order between events change?  (Read 289 times)

Offline Deb

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Science Daily March 2019:

"Researchers have developed a new theoretical framework to describe how causal structures in quantum mechanics transform. They analyze under which conditions quantum mechanics allows the causal structure of the world to become 'fuzzy.' In this case, a fixed order of events is not possible."

"Our results demonstrate that under physically reasonable assumptions of continuity and reversibility a world with definite causal order will never become a world with an indefinite causal order and vice versa," says Esteban Castro, one of the authors of the paper. This insight may lead to a more complete understanding of what the role of causality is in the quantum world."

The above article on physics questioning whether event order is flexible came into my radar at the same time of this early session, where Seth explains how past and future, linear time, cause and effect are illusions and BTW the past CAN be changed (I'm taking a giant leap). There are no divisions of time. Seth uses easy analogies, but I still think I need to read this a few times for it to really sink in. :) I've bolded some things that stood out for (only) me. It comes down to the fact that while we are living in a camouflage reality, the constraints are necessary and serve a purpose in this Earth reality. But to be able to grasp the concept that they are illusions -- to understand that fully -- well, that's the magic and wonder. My ". . ." means I've deleted Rob's notations, in order to shorten this lengthy material. Please excuse any typos or formatting errors, I'm working from scans of these sessions that were gifted to me.

. . .
The spacious present is an excellent term. In actuality there is only a spacious present, so spacious that it cannot be explored all at once in your terms, hence your arbitrary division of it into larger rooms of past, present and future.
. . .
Again, there is only the spacious present. You are in the spacious present now. You were in the spacious present in your yesterday and you still will not have traveled through it in your tomorrow, or in eons of tomorrows.

In your terms, the rate at which you discover the facets and realities of the spacious present becomes your camouflage time. On your plane there must be physical manipulation. This gives you also the illusion of past and future, and to you it appears that the present is a fleeting, almost ashen illusion in itself, beyond any true remembrance and beyond the reach of any but nostalgic recall. This is also caused by your camouflage system in which physical materializations appear and grow, mature and disappear.

In the spacious present as it exists in actuality beyond shadow, all things that have existed still exist, and all things that shall exist in your tomorrow already do exist. You on your plane cannot experience such reality except in a very limited manner, and you cannot experience such reality spontaneously, and spontaneity is the quality of the spacious present. To you with your ideas of camouflage time this material may sound strange and unbelievable.

As I have said that the walls of your house do not actually exist as such, so the divisions that you have placed within the spacious present do not exist. But as the walls of your house are experienced by your outer senses, and serve to protect you against other camouflage materializations, even those of wind and rain and cold, so do the walls of past, present and future, erected by you as a different kind of camouflage pattern, protect you from inner forces and realities with which you are not as yet equipped to deal.

As a rule when we have talked of camouflage in general, we have been concerned with physical camouflage structures. An example being the spider's web, and the table of a past discussion which is actually a conglomeration of atoms and molecules, loosely held together but experienced by your outer senses as a solid camouflage structure which can be used and manipulated in your camouflage existence.

There are however many other camouflage patterns which do not exist as solid structures, but exist as ideas.
. . .
These camouflage ideas are as real and as useful, if not more so, than physical camouflage patterns. They also enable you to manipulate, and they of course also serve to hide you from or shield you from direct reality experiences which you cannot handle on your plane. These idea camouflage patterns represent important if nonmaterial structures, and we will refer to them as idea camouflage structures from now on, since they are basic frameworks that control the actual physical camouflage patterns, and even supervise for you the extent to which such physical patterns can be constructed.

In other words these idea camouflage structures are prerequisites for your physical structures, and to the extent that these idea structures evolve, to that extent can your physical structures change. This is why, for example, you are hampered even in your physical constructions by the idea structures of time that you have erected.

The idea of past, present and future is a necessary one on your plane, but this certainly does not mean that time exists in the manner which you suppose. You are obsessed with the theory of beginning and end, because in your situation your camouflage constructions seem to have a beginning and an end.

For the same reason you are also obsessed with the idea of cause and effect, with the illusion of successive time bringing forth the other. Here we have two of your most basic idea camouflage structures: your conception of time as a succession, and your idea of cause and effect.
. . .
There is no cause and effect in the terms in which you understand the words. Nor is there a succession of moments that follow one after the other; and without a succession of moments following one after the other you can see that the idea of cause and effect becomes meaningless. An action of the present in your terms cannot be based or caused by an action in the past, and neither action can be the cause of a future action in a basic reality where neither past nor future exist.

The distortive illusion of successive moments, and of the resulting conception of cause and effect, are both on your plane the result of the observation by the outer senses, and are practical and useful on your plane and therefore have a certain validity, if for you only.

They represent a more or less true account of the nature of your camouflage universe, but if they are understood as being limited to your camouflage environment only, then your scientists would not attempt to use them as yardsticks to measure other universes.

The majority of your intellectual ideas apply to your own universe only and their validity only stands up within these limitations. I am not condemning or minimizing the importance of the intellect in any manner. The fact remains that the intellect is itself limited at this particular time, but these limitations of the intellect are not static and can be enlarged to some considerable extent.

The nature of basic reality is known according to the degree to which it is directly experienced, and it can only be directly experienced through the use of the inner senses. The inner senses are of course utilized on your plane, as on any other, constantly. Without any such use no existence would be possible. And without the unconscious and constant use of the inner senses you could not even construct your precious camouflage patterned universe.
. . .
There can be order without a succession of moments. There can be order, believe it or not, without your cause and effect. There can be order, and there is order, in spontaneity, and in the simultaneous existence of the spacious present.
Order is one of the most basic attributes of all reality, and order is an inherent attribute in all things. There is no beginning and no end; only your camouflage idea structures give this illusion. All planes of existence have their being in the spacious present, and all fragment dramas are acted at the same time.

Some of this material will take some getting used to but I wanted to give it to you now; and perhaps you will see how important the use of psychological time can be to you. It comes very close to allowing you the freedom of the spacious present. There is more I will say later along these lines, but your experience with psychological time will to some degree help you to see through the walls of past and future. I realize you will find the statement, there is no beginning or end, almost incomprehensible, because of your own situation on your own plane, and yet this has been known for centuries; and your own Einstein's theories will help to give the idea scientific respectability.

You understand of course that the theory of successive moments works on your plane, or has worked so far. But as mankind grows even more ambitious then the idea will cease to work for him, and it will be actually discarded on theoretical terms while it is still utilized in its limited fashion in practical mundane terms, as you still find the table useful in practical terms; although theoretically you realize that it is not a solid you still manufacture tables, and you will still use watches long after your scientists discover that the theory of successive passage of moments is antiquated and itself passe.

There are many other similar idea camouflage structures upon which you have based your camouflage universe. The theory that all or any other intelligent life exists on the same horizontal plane as your own, and that it necessarily exists in your own known camouflage universe, is another.
. . .
As long as your theories are only concerned with your own camouflage universe, then of course you are limited by those ideas in your search for reality itself. When fifth dimension is understood, it in itself will show the existence of other realities not on your own horizontal plane. And as I mentioned earlier, I'd like to see you try to get from one plane to another in a spaceship.
(See the 12th session for what material Seth has given us on the fifth dimension.)

Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.

The discovery of the existence of the fifth dimension will of course lead your aggressive fellows into the realization that other intelligence can exist outside of your particular camouflage universe. And the quantitative distance on your own particular horizontal plane actually amounts to a qualitative difference, in that the theories of universal laws as presently conceived simply will not hold.

There are other intelligent beings on your own horizontal level. You may reach them in a space vehicle, but the quantitative difference again is so large that it almost turns into a different value, and a trip by camouflage vehicle would certainly not be the most efficient way to make such a journey, by any means.

There will be in the future journey through light beams that will be much more efficient. However, even in your own camouflage universe the development of the inner senses will get you further, and only the development of the inner senses will enable you to make any possible contact with intelligences on other than your own horizontal plane.

("Is there any other intelligent life in our own solar system?")
In your own small solar system?

We have not completed by any means our outline on the inner senses. When we have then some of this material will make more sense to you. Some data on the inner senses has to be withheld until you receive connecting information.

Such effects as levitation and teleportation, however, are qualities belonging to our next inner sense, which involves a momentary or temporary breaking up of certain camouflage patterns. This particular sense, which I hope to discuss simpler methods, but there are others belonging to other inner senses which you are not prepared as yet to understand.

I have been saving these. You might look over the little material that I gave you earlier, concerning my own entry into your plane, as a preliminary to a later discussion on the two other inner senses having to do with transportation. At Wednesday's session I will go into the next sense having to do with what you will call teleportation and levitation.

Any time, any one time, that you can behave in a manner that suggests that one of your cherished limited laws of the universe does not exist, then you can be certain that the so-called law does not exist, at least not in any basic manner.

Your apparent laws of the universe have been broken in isolated instances often enough so that this point should certainly be clear, and yet your scientists constantly ignore such problems.

I intend to add to our discussion concerning the dream world, as it is not only important in itself but offers excellent analogies as far as many other aspects of manipulation are concerned. In fact, I do hope also to explain to you the various and numerous levels of existence upon your own plane, and those connected to it in basic ways.

Not only do you create a camouflage universe that is visible to your own outer senses, but you also create other planes of existence, such as the dream world for example, which to some extent is independent of you and yet dependent upon you in very basic ways.

Many instances can be directly experienced by you without too much difficulty, and I will endeavor to help you where I can. That is, all of this does not have to be taken on faith, and I hope we can go into practicalities when the time arrives.

I will end the session. It has been a very good one. I have been giving you a lot of basic material, so if I sound more like an impersonal lecturer than a friend, I hope you will forgive me.

Offline Sena

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Quote from: Deb
"Researchers have developed a new theoretical framework to describe how causal structures in quantum mechanics transform. They analyze under which conditions quantum mechanics allows the causal structure of the world to become 'fuzzy.' In this case, a fixed order of events is not possible."
Deb, this is a great find. It is interesting to take this research in conjunction with the idea that the human brain may be a quantum computer.
"Your brain is not just a bioelectric and biochemical computer, but also a quantum computer. The cells of your body, and the neurons and networks of neurons of your brain, are entangled with each other. This is why your brain can perform functions that are entire dimensions beyond the capacity of any conceivable biochemical system. If and when quantum computers are developed, we may for the first time see man-made systems that come close to matching your brain’s information-processing powers."

Taking these two ideas together, we can see how thoughts can sometimes bring about events which seem to go against the causal order.

Offline LenKop

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Thanks Deb.

Great stuff.


Offline Deb

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Wow, great article Sena.

"Though in large part biochemical, these processes have a significant nonlocal component as well. By 'nonlocal,' I refer to the finding in physics that particles once connected retain their connection and influence upon each other even at a distance—they are said to remain 'entangled.' "

It's easy enough to accept that the cells in our body are entangled, being self-contained. We are walking proof. It's harder for most to consider the possibility that entanglement extends beyond the skin.

Here's a video makes a case for how we are all connected—at least in the physical sense of sharing resources. It's on the long side, but interesting.

It seems The Monroe Institute is working on proof of entanglement. Or this is just a marketing ploy.

"The challenge is on! Show the world (and yourself) that consciousness expansion is real and can be scientifically validated.

"This past December a group of intrepid explorers gathered at The Monroe Institute to meet this challenge and make a contribution to the advancement of human scientific knowledge. They were remarkably successful."

Hopefully at some point more data will be revealed.

Offline Sena

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Quote from: Deb
Here's a video makes a case for how we are all connected
I had read about Tonglen meditation before I came across Seth, and I rejected it then. Now it makes sense to me. Essentially, the practice involves taking in the "dark" with the inbreath, the suffering of yourself or others, negative emotions etc. With the outbreath you send out "light", happiness, relief of suffering. As we are all connected, we may be able to make a difference with this practice.


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