Real healing according to Seth

[Sena]

Seth readers often ask themselves, "Why couldn't Jane Roberts heal herself of her rheumatoid arthritis?". I think Seth's answer would be that real healing is always psychic and spiritual. Physical healing is too easy. The so-called "psychic surgeons" of the Philippines are able to do physical healing. This is the relevant Seth quote:

"There are also those who choose to be healers, and of course this involves far more than healing as you are familiar with it. These healers must be able to work with all levels of the entity's experience, directly helping those personalities that are a part of it. Again, this involves a manipulation through reincarnational patterns, and here again, great diversification. A healer begins with reincarnational selves with various difficulties. The healing involved is always psychic and spiritual, and these healers are available to help each personality in your system as you know it, in your present time, and in other systems. In a larger context, and with greater training, advanced healers deal with the spiritual maladies of vast numbers of personalities. There are those who combine the qualities of teacher, creator, and healer. Others choose lines of development that are particularly suited to their own characteristics." (from "Seth Speaks: The Eternal Validity of the Soul (A Seth Book)" by Jane Roberts)

From the Kindle edition: https://amzn.eu/gvIBtXF

[jbseth]

Hi All,

I have a completely different take on this.

For some people who were severely traumatized in childhood, it takes both some amount of psychotherapy and some amount of going back and looking into their past, before they can see that they were not to blame for many of the things that were done to them, when they were children.

This is an incredibly scary undertaking, for many of these people. Some are afraid that they might lose their minds, if they do so. They're afraid that they'll completely fall apart and have what some call a psychotic break if they do.

Many of these people, never work up the courage to do this work.



I'm not sure how familiar you are with Jane's childhood and her mother, but in several places, Jane mentions some of the horrible things that her mother told her when she was young.

One example, that I recall occurred when Jane was quite young, maybe 6 years old or something. Her Mom told her that she was going to get up in the middle of the night, turn on the gas stove and kill them both, or something like that.

As I recall, some of these stories are told in the book, "The Way Toward Health".

To be honest, I think that Jane's mother may have been psychotic. Being raised with a psychotic parent can have some pretty horrendous effects on a person.  Personally, I'm really amazed that Jane was as normal as she was.

My take on this, is that Jane was never able to work up the courage, to do the work that she would need to, to overcome many of her childhood traumas and that's probably quite understandable under the circumstances.


I'm curious, does anyone else here, think that this might be what was behind many of Jane's health problems?


-jbseth

[Deb]

Seth readers often ask themselves, "Why couldn't Jane Roberts heal herself of her rheumatoid arthritis?".

True, I wondered about that myself. I totally think Jane's problems had to do with her upbringing, both by her mother and the church. I think if she'd had a stable father in the house, she would have had a better chance. Jane was caring for her mother at an early age, became the "adult" in the house, giving her mother bedpans, stoking the fire at night, cooking, entertaining the welfare lady. Her mother attempted suicide multiple times. That had to be a horrible childhood, and I'm also surprised she ended up as normal as she was. I think Rob was the father she never had, and I'm glad she found him.

I think that Jane's feelings of guilt around her mother could not be overcome. There was probably a lot of emotional conflict there, being a child programmed to love and trust a parent, and then the resentment from being treated the way she was. I think she felt a need to be punished (don't forget her Catholic upbringing), and to suffer the same illness as her mother was her "penance," going back to our "eye for an eye" thread (I have a pretty good memory of being groomed to be Catholic.) Seth said several times that Jane did not have RA. There were a few times Jane demonstrated that it could have been "all in her head," where when speaking as Seth (or maybe also singing Sumari?) she could move in ways she could not when she was just being Jane. A medical doctor would probably say it was genetic inheritance. IDK, my son has Type 1 Diabetes. Both T1 and RA are autoimmune diseases, no cures, only maintenance. Louise Hay would say autoimmune diseases are a sure sign of not loving oneself. My son just turned 6 when he was diagnosed, a happy, well adjusted kid, loving school (kindergarten), loving parents, lots of new friends, the epitome of happiness. With no T1 on either side of the family.

I remember Seth saying in the early books that healers can heal, especially if the patient believes that, but if the original cause of the problem is not dealt with, then illness will crop up again, maybe in a different form. ("If through the concentrated use of psychic energy your body is cured by such a healer, you will also simply trade those symptoms for others unless you change your initial beliefs." NoPR Session 624)

That quote from Seth Speaks goes beyond what I generally think of as healers these days. Being able to "work with all levels of the entity's experience" and "the spiritual maladies of vast numbers of personalities" makes me wonder if some harmful beliefs can be carried through or shared by multiple incarnations. I bet a good hypnotist working with past life regression would be a better healer than, for instance, someone who practices Reiki.

I thought this was pretty interesting too. Again, a true healer has to be able to reach beyond Framework 1. Not your ordinary human being. I think this was about a boy healed of RA:

"The healer instantly reached the boy in Framework 2, whereas you know time is foreshortened—so in your terms results can appear far more quickly than in usual terms. The healer telepathically reminded the child that he was indeed full of energy and vitality. When this was fully understood, the previous suggestions vanished, with their results."

—TPS5 Deleted Session March 19, 1979

[Sena]

That quote from Seth Speaks goes beyond what I generally think of as healers these days. Being able to "work with all levels of the entity's experience" and "the spiritual maladies of vast numbers of personalities" makes me wonder if some harmful beliefs can be carried through or shared by multiple incarnations.

Deb, how I understood this is that some illnesses are due to psychic and spiritual factors shared by several personalities of an entity. So, for instance, Jane's illness could have been due to psychic and spiritual factors in several past or future personalities of her entity (Ruburt).

One of the somewhat unique aspects of Seth's teaching is that multiple incarnations are actually simultaneous. This means that Jane could have experienced as rheumatoid arthritis a psychic or spiritual experience of one or more of Ruburt's past or future personalities.

[Sena]

For some people who were severely traumatized in childhood, it takes both some amount of psychotherapy and some amount of going back and looking into their past, before they can see that they were not to blame for many of the things that were done to them, when they were children.

jbseth, thanks for giving your opinion on this. Would you agree that the the trauma Jane experienced in her childhood was something that Jane herself chose to experience, i.e. it was a reality created by Jane herself?

[jbseth]

jbseth, thanks for giving your opinion on this. Would you agree that the the trauma Jane experienced in her childhood was something that Jane herself chose to experience, i.e. it was a reality created by Jane herself?

Hi Sena, Hi All,

Absolutely. We each create our reality.
We choose our parents and the family situation that we'll be born into. 
We do this for our own purposes.

-jbseth

[jbseth]

Hi All,

After thinking about this topic some more, yesterday, I decided to go back and check out some of my comments and some of my resources. I have 3 separate books that talk about Jane's life.

1) The book, TPS1, contains a 39 page introduction that Rob wrote where he talks about both his and Jane's life.

2) Scattered throughout the book, "The Way Toward Health", WTH, there is some information about Jane's life.

3) Sue Watkins, wrote a book, titled "Speaking of Jane Roberts", which is basically a biography of Jane's life.


After looking through these 3 books yesterday, I still agree with my comments yesterday. I think that Jane's Mom very well may have been psychotic to some degree, and this had to have had a major impact upon Jane's life.  I also discovered a session near the very end of the book, WTH. This session sheds some light on Jane's health problems. It appears to me that Jane ended up believing many of the crazy things that her Mom, "Marie" told her, when she was growing up. I think that this was ultimately what caused many of Jane's symptoms. Furthermore, I think that Jane also never got the psychological help that she needed, in dealing with these issues and this, I suspect, is ultimately why she died the way she did.

I'll post some of quotes that I came across yesterday in the 3 spoilers below.

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I mean really, who says and does these kinds of things to a child?





Finally, here, I think, is some real insight into Jane's health problems. The following spoiler comes from, "The Way Toward Health", Chapter 14, Session, August 2, 1984. To put this in perspective, this session was held, just a little over a month before Jane died.

Warning, this next spoiler will be difficult to read. It really pulls at your heartstrings for Jane.

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It seem to me, that just before the end of her life, Jane finally reached a point where she was finally willing to confront, her demons, if you will, her self punishment for the things that she perceived that she did that harmed her mother and her grandmother, etc.

Unfortunately, for her, it appears as though it may have been too little, too late. But then again, who's to say, we each create our own reality.


-jbseth

[Sena]

Let Ruburt remind himself that his birth was not responsible for his mother's incapacity. He did not rob her of her own life by being born.

jbseth, thanks for these quotes. It would seem that Seth was acting as "a psychic and spiritual healer" for Jane. This is rather remarkable. I am not aware that Jane had formal psychotherapy. Do you have any information about that?

[jbseth]

Hi Sena,

I've don't recall ever reading anything that indicated to me that Jane ever had any sort of psychotherapy.

I suspect that she probably never did, but I don't actually know that for certain.


-jbseth

[Deb]

I don't recall reading that Jane had been through therapy. She had been evaluated a few times, at her own request, because she was concerned about her mental health when she started speaking as Seth. Apparently there were no issues found. Also Dr. "Instream" (George Estabrook), who was doing the envelope ESP tests with her, evaluated Jane as well and felt she was "as sane as he was" or something like that (Village Voice Interview).

Marie blamed Jane for her own illness, for her father leaving them, for Marie's mother's death and that of a housekeeper (more in PS6? I don't have that book). If you want to know more about Marie, just put her name into the Seth search engine. She was a piece of work.

Jane learned to blame herself for a lot of things—her mother's illness and death, for instance. In PS01, 02/12/68, "First Hypnosis Session Jane," Rob hypnotized Jane. The purpose of the (regression) hypnosis was to get to the roots of Jane's physical problems. Rob notes that Jane, while under hypnosis, started to cry and talk about their move to Florida a few years earlier, and that it was her fault she made them leave Sayre and Rob's parents, her fault they had "chased around the country," and that her spontaneity done nothing but get them into trouble. She felt Rob was angry with her and that he would leave her. Later Jane told him, crying, that if she got sick he'd feel sorry for her and wouldn't leave her. Rob himself never saw any of their move as being a problem, there was no anger, and he reassured her over and over. What a gentle man he was. They returned to Sayre/Elmira, Rob worked for three years and then got sick for a year. He wrote:

(It was, I believe, after my own recovery that Jane's first symptoms, unrecognized by us as to their potential severity, began to show. And now under hypnosis Jane said the second important thing: she told me that if she got sick, I wouldn't be sick any longer. )

Last sentence of the session, Rob wrote:

(Jane also blamed herself for the death of Mischa & the cats.)

Jane had a lot of personal issues to deal with, but overall I don't think she was mentally ill. Marie was. Of course, I didn't know Jane personally, but my experience is that sometimes people who came from horrid backgrounds... it makes them stronger adults. They had to grow up early, learn to take care of themselves, have good survival skills. Having been through hell, the rest of life is a relief as they are well prepared for whatever life throws at them. Probably with some emotional baggage, but who doesn't?

Seth (and others) say we choose our parents and situations. Jane must have felt she could handle it. I read somewhere, recently, that Jane's childhood made her a very caring person. I think Rob said Seth said that. Jane also said our past gives us a rich bed of experiences to work with. Since I can't find those it may have been Psychic Politics or Nature of the Psyche which I listened to on audio and are not in the search engine.

Deleted Session 473 PS1 04/07/69 is a great session that has info on Jane's childhood, fear of aggression, religion, Rob's role, ego and health and illness. Here's a teaser:

"Now. No personality chooses a life situation of illness. It chooses the best method it can to aid in overall development.

"It uses illness as a teaching method, and discards the method when the lesson is learned. In entire life situations—I am speaking in terms of a lifelong illness now—the illness is not predetermined by the personality to last the length of the life. Many severe illnesses disappear miraculously, it would seem, though an individual has been plagued since birth.

Here the lesson has been learned and he illness as a method is discarded."

Jane also wrote in Psychic Politics, Chapter 9, that she'd "discovered just about everything I needed to know about my condition through working with my beliefs as Seth suggests in The Nature of Personal Reality—and I knew that I cling to the symptoms because they still served a purpose." Jane thought her illness provided her with "quiet; cutting down distractions while allowing me to do just what I wanted to do—write at my desk."

[jbseth]

Jane thought her illness provided her with "quiet; cutting down distractions while allowing me to do just what I wanted to do—write at my desk."

Hi Deb, Hi All,

Thanks for posting that Deb. I remember reading that in "Psychic Politics".

While it helped to make it easier for her to work at her desk, it was also a double-edged sword. It also helped to make her immobile, and eventually this immobility became an even bigger problem for her.

This reminds me of the old adage, "Be careful what you ask for, you just might get it."

-jbseth

[Sena]

I don't recall reading that Jane had been through therapy.

Deb, I agree that there is no evidence that Jane was mentally ill, but she could still have asked for psychotherapy to help deal with her childhood trauma. I wonder whether, if she had gone down the road of psychotherapy, the Seth revelation might never have happened? A psychotherapist could have given her "psychic healing", but not "spiritual healing".

I think it is quite significant that Seth always addressed Jane as Ruburt, and Rob as Joseph. This may have been because Seth wanted to bring healing to all the personalities of the Ruburt and Joseph entities.

"My connection with you is obvious from our previous discussions. Ruburt and I were once intimately connected, being offshoots so to speak of the same entity. We developed according to our own abilities. I am not his subconscious nor is he mine." (from "The Early Sessions: Book 2 of The Seth Material" by Jane Roberts, Robert Butts)

From the Kindle edition: https://amzn.eu/0XpZctz

[Deb]

I wonder whether, if she had gone down the road of psychotherapy, the Seth revelation might never have happened? A psychotherapist could have given her "psychic healing", but not "spiritual healing".

Good question and good point you made earlier as well, that Seth was probably acting as spiritual healer for Jane et al. He once said that personalities that are done with their incarnational cycle can still act as guides, it seems like that's what he was.

Deb, how I understood this is that some illnesses are due to psychic and spiritual factors shared by several personalities of an entity. So, for instance, Jane's illness could have been due to psychic and spiritual factors in several past or future personalities of her entity (Ruburt).

One of the somewhat unique aspects of Seth's teaching is that multiple incarnations are actually simultaneous. This means that Jane could have experienced as rheumatoid arthritis a psychic or spiritual experience of one or more of Ruburt's past or future personalities.

I remember Seth saying that there is constant telepathic communication between our various incarnations and probable selves, we share information and can help each other. It makes sense to me that there could also be bleed-through of characteristics or maladies such as Jane's RA. Which would explain Seth telling Jane that "she" did not have it. And yes, it was a double-edge sword and I think she could have found a less burdensome way of making sure she kept to her writing schedule. She questioned whether she would have, if she was not physically compromised. RA was something very familiar to her. I wonder if she'd been told it was genetically inherited, and believed it?

This morning the article below was featured on Quora. It was written back in January 2019, so surprising it would be featured now, but with my previous paragraph in mind... why not?

The question was "Do people reincarnate with similar features?"

The answer is by Richard Martini, an author on books of the afterlife and frequent contributor on Quora.

Ian Stevenson did a lot of research about this in his work at UVA. He found that certain people had birth marks that seemed to directly relate to a previous lifetime. He cataloged these cases, and wrote about them in peer reviewed journals.

However, when we look at the reincarnation cases of Dr. Jim Tucker (one of his students) or Carol Bowman (another of his students) they don't seem to focus on those physical characteristics. Since a person would have little or no influence over genetics of a person they might choose to reincarnate into, it's unusual to hear that those "markings" do occur in some individuals.

For example, a person who was shot may have a mole or marking in the same spot or pattern that the injury occurred (according to Stevenson's research). Since what I've been seeing in the research is that we "choose" our next incarnation (people under deep hypnosis claiming that we choose who we're going to be the next time around) it seems unusual that they would "bring along" the "energetic pattern" of something that occurred to them in the past. To what end? As a reminder? Or is it something to do with the energy of that previous lifetime?

That takes us into the world of theoretical epigenetics - the idea that fear or other strong emotions can be passed along to offspring. If the idea that fear can be passed along the DNA trail, can fear (or the reactions from fear) be passed along from lifetime to lifetime? That would be theoretically logical - but doesn't make sense if a person is "choosing" their next lifetime (which is what the thousands of people say about the process.)

So on one hand, Stevenson's research shows that people are capable of "carrying with them certain markings" into their next lifetime, but there's no clear logic as to why they would do that. In essence, Stevenson's research shows that its possible, but then asks the question, "why would that be the case?"

In the research that includes what people say under deep hypnosis about reincarnation, people claim to incarnate in different bodies, different sexes, different countries, different circumstances altogether... but for them to bring along "a memory" of that previous lifetime in some kind of energetic pattern is worth examining as to how or why that would be. My two cents.

[LarryH]

The answer is by Richard Martini, an author on books of the afterlife and frequent contributor on Quora.

Just yesterday, I was listening to a downloaded interview of Richard Martini and was intrigued enough to inspect his books on Amazon. I didn't pull the trigger, but may after I finish the 5 books in front of me.

[Deb]

Just yesterday, I was listening to a downloaded interview of Richard Martini and was intrigued enough to inspect his books on Amazon. I didn't pull the trigger, but may after I finish the 5 books in front of me.

Well, isn't that interesting!

If you decide to get one, let me know what you think. I thought Flipside or Hacking might be interesting, but I too have a stack of books to read.

[jbseth]

Hi All,

He Deb,  LarryH,

Thanks for the info on Richard Martini.  I've never heard of him and so I thought I'd take a look at some of his books on Amazon. His books sound really interesting.

I have to chuckle. Here's what is says in the Preface in his book "Flipside".


An ad came on television of a beautiful young model wearing a skimpy bra and angel wings. She was dancing provocatively, selling the latest in underwear for Victoria's Secret. My 3 year old son stood up and pointed excitedly at the television. "Daddy!" he said, staring at the model and then looking at me. "I want that!"

I chuckled, remembering that he'd once told me that he remembered being a monk in a past life. "But RJ," I protested, "I thought you were a monk." "Not anymore!" he said happily.



-jbseth