Building alien worlds with DMT

[Sena]

The full article can be downloaded here:

https://www.academia.edu/download/46858329/ESSAY_Building_Alien_Worlds_The_Neuropsy20160628-21861-1korrbe.pdf

Following is a brief extract:

"Users typically describe the DMT world as being
more real than ordinary waking reality, even after the experience has ended.
The lucidity of the experience is also striking—the lack of haziness or
stoning allows the user to experience the effects as if in an ordinary waking
state.
Perhaps the most interesting of the recurrent themes, recounted by a
signifi cant proportion of users, is the experience of apparently hyperadvanced
technological societies, with highly intelligent entities occupying futuristic
cities and unearthly landscapes, manipulating complex machinery.
Often the entities appear as mischievous or playful 'elves' that vie for
the attention of the user:
It was generally like a wacky toy factory. Gadgets, widgets, twirling
machines, stair-step pattern, Escher-like "space" and tunnels and chutes.
The beings would seem to go "look!" and I felt I was supposed to look.
(Erowid Experience 11258)
The elves were dancing in and out of the multidimensional visible language
matrix, 'waving' their 'arms' and 'limbs/hands/fi ngers?' and 'smiling' or
'laughing'. (Erowid Experience 1859)
One of the DMT beings, tall, thin, and golem-like, grasped my head and
turned it back to see. (Erowid Experience 131)
Once I entered a room to see what looked like little elves working hard . . .
I was watching these little guys work very hard on a bench, and they were
building something.
They are elves/not-elves. They don't appear, they kind of ooze out of the
woodwork seductively and before you know it they're there—the whole
realm is infested with these creatures like nothing else you could ever
imagine."

Click for the full-sized image

The picture above was painted by Shawn Thornton, who suffers from a tumor of his pineal gland. It is said that the pineal gland produces DMT, and he is "in a visionary state all the time".

https://shawnthorntonpainting.com/section/422233-Painting.html

[LarryH]

I did a google images search for "DMT artwork": https://www.google.com/search?q=dmt+artwork&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1536&bih=666&ei=NB2lYLncHu2W_Qbc65bwDg&oq=dmt+a&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQARgBMgUIABCxAzICCAAyAggAMgIIADICCAAyAggAMgIIADICCAAyAggAMgIIADoICAAQsQMQgwFQkQ1YzR9g4j1oAHAAeACAAWWIAaMDkgEDNC4xmAEAoAEBqgELZ3dzLXdpei1pbWc&sclient=img

[Sena]

I did a google images search for "DMT artwork": https://www.google.com/search?q=dmt+artwork&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1536&bih=666&ei=NB2lYLncHu2W_Qbc65bwDg&oq=dmt+a&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQARgBMgUIABCxAzICCAAyAggAMgIIADICCAAyAggAMgIIADICCAAyAggAMgIIADoICAAQsQMQgwFQkQ1YzR9g4j1oAHAAeACAAWWIAaMDkgEDNC4xmAEAoAEBqgELZ3dzLXdpei1pbWc&sclient=img

Larry, thanks.
Something from the University of Brighton here:

https://blogs.brighton.ac.uk/stuff/2018/05/05/dmt-art/

[Deb]

These paintings are something else. I get tired just looking at them, I can't imagine how much time and effort goes into making something this detailed.

From a linked article about Shawn Thornton, from his website:

From Shawn:

"All throughout my early adulthood, I struggled from the mental and physical effects of a slow growing tumor in my brain, the symptoms of which were repeatedly misdiagnosed by my doctors as purely psychological in origin, and it ultimately took over half a decade to get a proper diagnosis and treatment to shrink the tumor. I suffered immeasurably during this period from having repeatedly undergone a host of treatments meant to treat the symptoms of mental illness, and paradoxically, from a mental illness that ultimately could not be contained."

More than five years of being told he was mentally ill! How frustrating.

These are the kind of paintings that one must stare at for a very long time in order to see everything. Would make for a painfully slow art exhibit. The details are amazing, such as that first painting on the Brighton U page. It says the "trip" is only 15 minutes! I wonder how these artists remember what they saw in such detail, and whether they are scared by what they're seeing at the time. The paintings are oddly similar in style and choice of colors, even though created by a variety of artists.

I just read a little of the PDF (thanks for the link Sena), the Abstract and Conclusion. The Abstract read like a Seth book. Just an excerpt:

"Arguably the most remarkable property of the human brain is its ability to construct the world that appears to consciousness. The brain is capable of building worlds during waking life, but also in the complete absence of extrinsic sensory data, entirely from intrinsic thalamocortical activity, as during dreaming." Further down it uses the term "consensus world" for waking reality (clever) and the DMT-induced world as an "alien world." It ends with "Thus, the modern practice of ingesting exogenous DMT may be the reconstitution of an ancestral function."

From the Conclusion:

"This simple molecule has an extraordinary ability to rapidly fire the user into an unimaginably strange alien reality and then return them within a few minutes, shocked and shaken but unharmed. The worlds DMT users find themselves in are completely unlike the dream world, bear no apparent relationship to consensus reality, and yet possess commonalities that are difficult to explain...

"DMT may allow the expression of intrinsic thalamocortical activation patterns that developed in a world that is not so much alien, but from which we have become alienated, allowing us a brief but astonishing glimpse at a long-forgotten hyperdimensional heritage."

Hmmmm. I've never been into recreational drugs, but this DMT sure has me curious. I wonder if anyone has had a really bad trip, or ended up with brain damage? Maybe not, if we have receptors for it.

[LarryH]

I've never been into recreational drugs, but this DMT sure has me curious. I wonder if anyone has had a really bad trip, or ended up with brain damage? Maybe not, if we have receptors for it.

Two plants are used to make the ayahuasca brew - one that provides DMT, the other that helps the body to maintain the effects longer. I think the latter is somewhat poisonous, which is the source of the vomiting and diarrhea, but instead of 5-15 minutes using just DMT, the altered state experience can be much longer. My understanding though is that DMT is not at all toxic and is quickly broken down by the body because it is a natural molecule that the body creates, similar to serotonin. DMT can either be smoked or injected. There is some thought to the possibility of delivering DMT as an intravenous drip that could maintain the experience for more than the usual time, which may give the same effects as ayahuasca without the toxic physical side effects.

[Sena]

Hmmmm. I've never been into recreational drugs, but this DMT sure has me curious. I wonder if anyone has had a really bad trip, or ended up with brain damage? Maybe not, if we have receptors for it.

Deb, DMT is a dangerous drug, and nobody should take it except under medical supervision. Some uncommon but possible side effects:

"A complete loss of coordination, which can result in serious physical injury
A severe level of confusion, which can be dangerous if an individual attempts to engage in day-to-day activities while intoxicated
Seizures
Coma
Respiratory arrest"

It is thought, although not certain, that DMT is naturally produced in the human body at the time of death, and it may be responsible for the Near Death Experience.

[LarryH]

Deb, DMT is a dangerous drug, and nobody should take it except under medical supervision.

John Lilly was experimenting with an injectable drug that he purposely called Vitamin K in order to avoid identifying it (vitamin K now refers to something completely different). He thought the drug could be dangerous. His description of its psychological effects sounded to me like the later descriptions of DMT experiences. His accounts can be found in his autobiography, The Scientist, which was written before DMT was popularized.

[Sena]

Deb, DMT is a dangerous drug, and nobody should take it except under medical supervision.

John Lilly was experimenting with an injectable drug that he purposely called Vitamin K in order to avoid identifying it (vitamin K now refers to something completely different). He thought the drug could be dangerous. His description of its psychological effects sounded to me like the later descriptions of DMT experiences. His accounts can be found in his autobiography, The Scientist, which was written before DMT was popularized.

Larry, thanks for mentioning this pioneer in the field. I have not read the book. This is from Wikipedia:

"In 1974, Lilly's research using various psychoactive drugs led him to believe in the existence of a certain hierarchical group of cosmic entities, the lowest of which he later dubbed Earth Coincidence Control Office (E.C.C.O.) in an autobiography published jointly with his wife Antonietta."

DMT does seem to be unique in providing access to alien-like beings and a possible alternate reality.

[Deb]

Yikes! DMT as an intravenous drip! I don't suppose those are medical professionals exploring that idea. Or maybe I'm wrong about that. 

DMT was apparently very popular in the 60s/70s, but I'd never heard of it until the past few years. Keith Richards would bring it to parties, along with an arsenal of other recreational drugs. He was very popular.

LSD has been more publicized, and there are some studies on treating depression with LSD. Now I found an article about them doing the same with DMT!

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-56373202

I did recently see a couple of articles comparing DMT-inspired hallucinations to an NDE, but I can't say I've read an account of an NDE where people saw enormous machinery, elves and cryptids in neon colors.

Well, don't worry, I don't have any plans to try either LSD or DMT. I didn't even like marijuana. I tried it a couple of times when I was young and it made me feel sleepy/dopey and constricted my throat a little—not at all pleasant. The possible side effects of DMT sound nasty.

Interesting about John Lilly's experiments. Yes, the "real" Vitamin K is something very different. If taken with Vitamin D, it assists calcium to get to where it belongs such as bones, rather than in arteries. Studies have shown that K will even reverse the buildup of calcium in arteries. It's actually one of the few supplements I take. That is, when I remember.

[Sena]

LSD has been more publicized, and there are some studies on treating depression with LSD. Now I found an article about them doing the same with DMT!

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-56373202

Deb, the DMT trial is very interesting indeed. It is being done by a British company called Small Pharma.

"Patients receives a single intravenous dose of DMT in a calming comfortable room. During the experience the patient is lying down on a bed, listening to a specifically designed music playlist. During the session, two therapists will be present throughout the session. The session lasts approximately 1 hour.
Following the DMT dosing session, patients are encouraged to discuss their experiences with the therapist. These sessions encourage patients to integrate insights from the session with an intention to guide breaking away from challenging emotional and behavioural patterns."

https://www.smallpharma.co.uk/spl026-project

[LarryH]

Andrew Gallimore is the person who spoke about the idea of an IV drip of DMT in an interview that I downloaded from Coast-to-Coast AM from a show on April 23, 2021.

Here's a 23+ minute YouTube from 2019 (I haven't listened to it):

[Deb]

Pretty wild. I didn't realize he's a neurobiologist, chemist, and pharmacologist. I googled "dmt studies" and there sure are a lot of them. There's a good description of what the experience is like here: https://www.businessinsider.com/the-research-on-the-hallucinogenic-drug-dmt-2018-3 Users say it's like breaking out of a simulation, more real than real, being lovingly embraced by the universe, a state where you exist in your purest form (deep peace and happiness), some feel it was a reassuring NDE.

I suppose any IV equipment could be adapted for DMT. I wonder what effect prolonged "trips" would have on the psyche? I imagine volunteers for a study would have to sign a lot of waivers.

I looked at his website, buildingalienworlds.com and he has a page of articles. I saw one from 2016 written by Gallimore and Graham Hancock about the theory of alien intervention here. It's only 5 pages, I plan to read it. Should be interesting.

[Kyle]

I used to be a bit adventurous about psychedelics and such. Almost twenty years ago, I had a fling with Salvia Divinorum (Diviner's Sage). Salvia has a profound effect on the sense of identity; one minute I'm a piece of furniture, the next, I'm a growing leaf of an immense plant. The next, I'm one of many plant-people, all spread-eagled along the rim of an enormous wheel right out of a fantastical Aztec scenario. And the wheel is turning other wheels and making the world go around. We are all immersed in a mass identity so that I can sense the shared thoughts and images of others. Then it all fades away in 12 - 15 minutes, except for the sense of being lightly singed by a lightning bolt.

There's often something very indigenous, like plant teacher culture, about Salvia experiences. Anyway, it got to be too much after a while. But Salvia and DMT have some things in common, especially visually, even though chemically they are quite different. And I never saw machine elves. Back then, Salvia was legal almost everywhere in the US, which has since changed.

[Deb]

Salvia has a profound effect on the sense of identity

Salvia, that's a new one to me! I guess there are a lot of varieties of salvia. You had some pretty wild stuff going on. When you were high, did you just accept the visions as being natural, meaning there was no fear in the identity changes?

I just found out yesterday, thanks to the Gallimore video above, that there's a business in Boulder (of course it's in Boulder) that offers psychedelic therapy, training, workshops. They use a psychadelic cannabis: "Cannabis can be psychedelically potentiated by certain growing, aging, blending, and mixing techniques." I'm not sure if they are limited to that, but marijuana has been legal in Colorado for a number of years.

[Kyle]

Deb, it was a curious thing, but somehow I was not fearful, I guess since there was no sense of stable identity separate from the experience until afterward. Instead, it felt like a succession of momentary existences, like being born anew with each breath. This is surely the most dramatic illustration of the Buddhist principle of impermanence that I ever experienced. Salvia Divinorum was more dramatic in this way than any LSD or psilocybin experience of mine. I can't speak of DMT, having no knowledge of what it's like.

Have you ever heard of holotropic breathwork? I haven't actually done it, but psychiatrist Stan Grof has worked with many people to give them psychedelic experiences without drugs.

[Deb]

Yours sounds like a positive experience, I can't imagine the feeling of being reborn over and over. It seems it would be liberating.

I never heard of holotropic breathwork, I'll look into it. I had an artist friend/client a few years ago that gave me some magic mushrooms and insisted I try them. She used to munch on a few and paint. I put them in a glass jar in my fridge, was afraid to try them. Just my luck, I'd be allergic to them or something. They're still in the fridge, lol.

[strangerthings]

Ok @Sena

Lets do this !

lollz

Theree is DMT in all plants, greenery (grass,  leaves ), the dirt etc -- haha

And yes our brain

You have posted about DMT quie a few times now so lets do this! teeheeteehee

[strangerthings]

They're still in the fridge, lol.

My plane leaves in an hour....

lollz

Yall know Im kidding ...not kidding.... kidding... right?

Aaahhhhh my younger years 

If any of you DO decide to do any of this ALWAYS MAKE SURE you are around people you feel safe with when sober and people you actually like lol oh and in a comfy place you feel VERY safe...

Not like somewhere in a blair witch setting or nuffin...haha
And if you get into any stress dont do it (ahem)
Try it another day when you are in a good mood!

[Sena]

If any of you DO decide to do any of this ALWAYS MAKE SURE you are around people you feel safe with when sober and people you actually like lol oh and in a comfy place you feel VERY safe...

St, I am sticking with Gurdjieff for the moment - Self observation and self remembering.

[strangerthings]

The information HE himself put out is incredible. Especially Beezlebub.
Its what came after he transitioned that is ....well .... a totally different thing altogether.
Written by someone who did not even believe in the work of Gurdjieff lol
Like why bother?
It is like writing a book on the Seth material in a manner that is informative yet missing the key and truly not believing in the work of Seth and Jane and Rob lol
How DOES that work?!

 

But also in saying that I am sure there are people who get something from it (the new stuff). In a good way. I hope....

The last meeting I went to screamed "RUN FAST".
 

[strangerthings]

an IV drip of DMT

I will take one of those and one of those and then one of those.

LOL I am so kidding!
This was hilarious to me!

Imagine that ..."an IV drip of DMT" ?
Yall know they make tea right? Nothing poking your arms lol
Drink the koolaid instead teehee

Larry I could not resist laughing about an iv drip of this and I know they have it in the dripping in a medical setting type environment but still. The picture in my head was comical. haha

Like is there a button to push for "more more more" teehee