Welcome James!

[Deb]

Woo hoo, we reached 100 members today (even after I've deleted about 250 spam accounts). Welcome @James !

[Monica]

Wow, that's pretty good going! It seems that numbers have really ramped up since the second half of last year.

It's turning into an absolutely fantastic community here. I've not been making a lot of contributions recently, but I'm reading the forum almost every day, so  I'm around.

Cheers.

[James]

Thank you Deb.

I just found your forum today. I was registered on the Seth Forum, but hadn't been active there for some time. I'm looking forward to reading through all the posts here - it looks like there are some fascinating topics.

I see you have a section called 'Seth On'.  I've been working on that too. A few years ago I decided that it would be great if there was one source that people could refer to to find everything Seth had ever said on any subject. So for the past three years I've been reading through all thirty or so of the Seth books, coding them by subject, and adding commentary when I think it might be helpful, and including supporting scientific evidence when applicable. It's been a great learning experience, and even though I've been studying the Seth material for 38 years now, I still find new subtleties and nuances every day. I've finished the first pass of coding, but the material is so complex, especially in the Early Sessions, that I have had to do a second pass. The number of subjects has grown to over 600 at this point, and I probably need another year to finish the coding. I hope to publish them in some form, but will have to discuss it with Rick Stack and Laurel Davies.

I'm looking forward to some good discussions here!

James.

[LenKop]

Welcome James.

Thats quite a pursuit. Thank you. I'll send good vibes your way. A catalogue like that is a great acheivment and very handy for anyone following this path of self discovery.

LK

[James]

Thank you Len.

If you or anyone else on this forum want to know what Seth said on a certain topic, I would be happy to help if I can. I will try to follow the posts on this forum regularly and chip in my two cent's worth if I can add anything to the conversation.

[Deb]

I see you have a section called 'Seth On'.  I've been working on that too. A few years ago I decided that it would be great if there was one source that people could refer to to find everything Seth had ever said on any subject. So for the past three years I've been reading through all thirty or so of the Seth books, coding them by subject, and adding commentary when I think it might be helpful, and including supporting scientific evidence when applicable.

Ahhhh, that's exactly what I've wanted to do. But I've been so busy with work, life, etc. that I haven't been able to get anywhere with it. I also realized at some point that I'd have to re-read the books I've read so far and add the data to a db of some sort as I was going along. Very slow work, I would think. And yes, every time I re-read a few pages here and there, something new jumps out at me. I swear Seth is still in the process of writing the books...

It sounds like you already have that covered, so I'll just wait until the book comes out and won't feel so guilty about not making any progress. Yes, Rick and Laurel will want a hand in that, they're very protective of the materials and indefatigable in preventing infringement. Getting a book like that published would be a major advancement in the Seth materials. Are you considering adding in the audio collection as well?

We'll certainly ask for your input on specific topics, this is very exciting! And please feel free to start topics of your own, the friends here are pretty responsive to new topics and new and interesting things to discuss.

[James]

Hi Deb. Yes, it certainly is slow work, but I enjoy studying Seth's material so much that I don't mind the time spent on the project. It's a labour of love. And it's a great way to really come to grips with Seth's ideas. And you're right, they do seem to contain new information with every re-reading. The material is also dense in some strange way, as if there are hidden layers behind layers of meaning. I remember when I was 14 years old, and just beginning to read Seth, that I could only read two pages a day. I just couldn't absorb any more than that. Sometimes I would drift off into a kind of reverie while reading those two pages, mentally exploring the concepts I think, and only snap out of it minutes later, realizing that I'd been reading the same sentence over and over while daydreaming.

I'm including material from the first 6 audio tapes, but I don't have a transcript of the other taped sessions, so for now I'm leaving them out. Does anyone here have a transcript they can send me, by any chance? I'd be very grateful.

[Deb]

Does anyone here have a transcript they can send me, by any chance? I'd be very grateful.

I don't have transcripts.
But I have the audio.
I could share, somehow (Dropbox?), if Rick doesn't catch on.

Just sayin. He was on my case about starting this forum.

I'm totally empathetic with copyright issues.
But Seth... I don't recall him mentioning copyrights.
Only sharing knowledge.

[James]

Thanks Deb, but I already have the audio files. It's just too hard to work with them, I find.

Why was Rick on your case?  Was he worried that you'd be providing free Seth material?

Seth himself had this to say about future usage of his material, in the 463^rd Session, held in Feb. 1969:

"Now. A few remarks. The material need not be presented in one way only, as I have told you in the past.
Do not attempt to force it to follow preconceived patterns, or insist that it be presented in any given manner. To do so is to lessen possibilities, and to limit the good that can come from it, and the number of people that it can reach.
It carries within it certain propelling forces, possibilities of development, and possibilities of presentation.
Do not insist that it be published in chronological order, in other words.
The material is wide-ranging enough so that it can be used in many ways, and this is my idea. I have told you this before in my analogy of the stream and the streambed.
The material is like a touchstone from which other creations may flow."

And from the 41

7^th session:

Now it makes no difference, basically, how you present the material, as long as it is presented; whether you let the stream flow on consecutively, one wave at a time, or whether you present it a bucket at a time, scooped up from various places. Pure, sparkling water is pure sparkling water, and a taste will lead to more when the populace is in a period of drought.

Some must be carried in buckets to irrigate inner lands. The material is a source. It will be given to various people in various ways. It is not up to you to decide which way is best, nor even to me. It will be presented therefore in many ways through the years.

The consecutive method, from the early sessions through, will appeal to those who have little knowledge of such affairs, and will serve to let them (smile) get their feet wet, bringing them this time into the stream little by little.

To some extent this should be done for those people. This does not mean, necessarily, a consecutive presentation that includes each session. There are those however who are ready for headier stuff. For these the above approach is not necessary. One approach at one time does not negate the use of another approach at another time.

To think in such a way could be to limit the good the material can do, and the numbers and kinds of people it can reach. Like action, the material moves out in all directions. It can be presented at various times in various ways, each complementary. There will be at some time, those interested in a study in depth of the material; and as Ruburt's students have seen to it that their need is satis­fied, so will these people see to it."

I agree that copyrights must be respected, but I hope that they won't 'limit the good the material can do'.

[Deb]

Why was Rick on your case?  Was he worried that you'd be providing free Seth material?

He wasn't happy about me starting the forum or promoting it, which I wasn't. I'd only said I'd thought about starting one in order to keep in touch with other Seth Intensive members with whom I'd become friends.

Rick and Laurel Butts shut down a Seth web site last year because they were quoting too much of the materials, and came down on another site where the owner was creating audio books himself from some of the Seth books. He managed to get around that by making his site "members only." He was doing a fairly decent job, has a great narration voice but there were some technical difficulties with recording and sound that he needs to overcome. I actually got to meet him last summer. http://believeit.us/

So, we need to be aware of copyrights here. My thought is, if someone reads some Seth quotes here, it will cause them to want to buy the books.

[James]

I considered his warning inspiration. So here we are.

I applaud you for going ahead with this forum in response to the unpleasantness you experienced. It hardly seems in keeping with Seth's overall philosophy to stifle discussion and attempt to curtail the spread of his ideas, in whatever form. So I salute you and the fellow who so creatively found a way to publish his audio books. I think everyone would agree that Jane, Rob and Seth are all in your corner, cheering you on.

[BethAnne]

I also, am grateful for your forum.  I feel the Seth Material is very important at this time and these concepts are universal and do not "belong" to anyone person. 

[John Sorensen]

Does anyone here have a transcript they can send me, by any chance? I'd be very grateful.

I don't have transcripts.
But I have the audio.
I could share, somehow (Dropbox?), if Rick doesn't catch on.

Just sayin. He was on my case about starting this forum.

I'm totally empathetic with copyright issues.
But Seth... I don't recall him mentioning copyrights.
Only sharing knowledge.

The one thing that bothers me when it comes to channeled material is both the price of accessing such material, and the idea it should be free.

On the one hand, I personally believe it would be good if everything were free, however the people who transcribed the sessions (Rob) edited and published the books, maintained the books and republished them over the years, the postal service that delivers the books etc - it just makes sense to pay them for their services.

Asking them to do otherwise is basically asking them to not only give it away for free, but actually operate at a loss to distribute such materials- meaning actually PAYING to give things a way. A poor business model if there ever was one.

I do believe the spirit of the Seth material is that of sharing, rather than hoarding.

Why would Rick want to shut down a Seth related website? That just sounds like bad business.

Imagine you started a website talking about how much you LOVE Nike shoes. Then someone from Nike shoes thinks: "Boy, we better shut down that website, people are talking about how much they like our shoes, we don't want them to encourage people to buy our shoes do we? Let's shut this down ASAP!"

I understand copyright failrly well, and I don't see anything on speakingofseth.com that would not come under "fair use"

I experimented with recording some audio versions of Seth books myself. I am aware that copyright wise - it is a no no.
And if it to be uploaded somewhere, a place like youtube, or some other file sharing network would be the place - on a website un-connected to the user/recorder etc.

I would have thought with the digital revolution we would have seen Seth audio books by now, official ones, and now only that, digital versions of all the Seth audio sessions (there are some, I don't know how many?).

I would have thought the high cost of the Seth audio CDs and cassetes would be negated by the move to digital media - which costs nothing in terms of physical storage - it can be downloaded instantly etc. Their are still hosting costs for websites etc.

I love the seth audio sessions, but refuse to pay the frankly ridiculous prices that are charged for them. It seem that Rick or whoever is in charge of them either doesn't want people to listen to them, or only people who are willing to pay the rather high prices for something that could easily be given away for free, or at least provided at a more reasonable cost.

You would think that there would be a discount at least for buying the complete set of Seth audio sessions. But no. Meanwhile over at Audible.com you can access thousands of audio books at great prices.

Rather than stopping people from making their own SETH audio books, which is a TINY audience, you are talking about a niche within a niche here, the SMART move would be to hire one of these people (or some other professional) to make official Seth audio books, clearly their is a DEMAND for them.

If the motive is money, it seems really stupid of Rick not to get these audio books out there. If the motive is NOT money, or simple production costs and logistics, then WHY the hell stop people from making their own? It's not the same as piracy where something exists, then is copied, and taken at the cost of profit to the original creator.

In this case, there are no original Seth audio books, merely text, so there is no lost revenue from unofficial Seth audio books.
I can't speak for anyone else, but if official or unofficial Seth audio books were made, I would be all over them. And I'm not going to stop buying the physical books, or burn the ones I have or anything else like that.

I am grateful that the books are available at all. At a sensible price. But I see no sense in NOT making Seth audio books, or in stopping others from making their own.

I really hope that this changes in my lifetime, as many people simply DO NOT READ BOOKS anymore.
Far more people are listening to audio books these days.


The times are a changing


It would be really backwards, and a bit sad if people forgot about the Seth Material because of a refusal to supply the material in digital audio form. There is a whole podcast and audio book revolution going on right now, and not being part of that is a great way for the Seth material to fade into obscurity.

It would make sense to me that someone (Deb?) contact Rick and say look, these books are going to happen one way or another, would you prefer to be involved in making them or would you prefer that someone else do it and consult with you? Or at least what would be the least objectionable source (online) to provide them through that does not result in somebody getting sued.


I mean he's going to know one way or another, and I feel it is better to be upfront and smart about it.
Hopefully when he realizes there is a website full of people who actually want them (hey, that's called direct marketing....) he may at least reconsider.


I think we should have a forum here and everyone who is interested put their name down to say "yes, we want these audio books". Perhaps Rick would take that kind of thing more seriously.


And if he doesn't want to be involved, then go the unofficial route.


Also, to DEB, if Rick does try to shut this website down at any point, can you not just remove the sections on Seth Quotes or whatever, and leave the rest of the conversations alone?
I don't see how he has any right to do that, unless there are significantly large chunks or material posted somewhere on this site? Voluntary removal would be the better option.

[LenKop]

Does anyone know the laws regarding copyright time and how long it lasts on original work? I thought it was 50 years.

LK

[James]

Does anyone know the laws regarding copyright time and how long it lasts on original work? I thought it was 50 years.

I think it used to be 50 years, but was extended at some point. It looks like copyright lasts anywhere from 70 to 95 years, which will make the body of the Seth material paywall protected for the lifetimes of many of us here. 
I downloaded this from the web:
For works published after 1977, the copyright lasts for the life of the author plus 70 years.Works published after 1922 but before 1978 are protected for 95 years from the date of publication. But if the work was created, but not published, before 1978, the copyright lasts for the life of the author plus 70 years.

[John Sorensen]

Does anyone know the laws regarding copyright time and how long it lasts on original work? I thought it was 50 years.

LK

It varies, and also depends on whoever holds the current rights, if they renew them etc.

For example, the original Sherlock Holmes stories by Arthur Conan Doyle are in the public domain. You can give them away for free, share them etc.

However, if you want to write and sell your own Sherlock Holmes story (of which there are many officially published ones) you have to ask permission of the Arthur Conan Doyle estate, who charge for permission to write the stories.

I didn't mean any disrespect to Rick in my post at all, and I am truly thankful for all his hard work in preserving / curating the Seth Material. I don't know what goes on behind the scenes.

But I would hate for the material to be forgotten, or inaccessible for new audiences, some of whom have only recently been born, and will not find it for perhaps 20 years or so.

Each of us operates in our own way, using our talents and abilities in the way that is most native to us. And as paradigms change we sit back and complain about it, or flow with the changes, which to is to flow with life, rather than be against the current of change.

I would hate for Seth Material to become more elitist like Bashar (he direct markets to Hollywood, hence the high high prices of various materials) or too insular like Abraham-Hicks, or too wacky-woo-woo and impractical like some other channeled materials I have read over the years that are big on emotional highs, nutty ideas, and pollyanna solutions to big problems - but low on practical application in real life.

[Deb]

I know this is an old topic, but a ghost post prompted me to revisit. Laurel Davies Butts owns the copyright of every thought and word produced by Seth, Jane and Rob. All their art as well. But she seems to have softened a bit regarding people quoting from the books, etc. She knows about this forum through Facebook and has not approached me about anything, not even to say I should state somewhere here about her copyright ownership. Now that I think about it, I probably should put that somewhere. Maybe in the Terms & Conditions.

People who quote Seth tend to inspire others to buy more Seth books. That's certainly been the case with me, lol.

And Laurel also is aware of, and seems ok with, the fantastic search engine on Sethtalks. http://search.sethtalks.com/ That is worth its weight in gold.

[James]

Thanks for the update Deb, and the link to the Seth search engine. Great stuff!