Author Topic: What if age is nothing but a mind-set? Experiments with the power of the mind.  (Read 2554 times)

Offline Deb

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Post edited to include, first, this quote from NoPR, session 656:

"...your own conclusions about age become fact in your experience. In line with them, if you could convince yourself that you were ten years younger, or ten years older, then it would be faithfully reflected in your personal environment....

"If you were twenty, you would be able to draw upon the wisdom you imagine you would have at thirty.

"If you were sixty, you would be able to use the physical strength you imagined was denied you not, but available then. All of this would be physically and biologically expressed within your body as well. [Emphasis added because this ties into the Ellen Langer experiments.]

"Which you? Which world?"

- - - -

Interesting coincidence today: I was debating putting up a link to this NY Times article about psychologist Ellen Langer and her 'unorthodox' experiments on the power of the mind over the body. A couple of the experiments mentioned in the article are also detailed in Joe Dispenza's Placebo book. The first one mentioned is about an experiment done in 1981 with a group of eight men in their 70s that were pretty aged. They were isolated from the world for 5 days in a location that was staged to appear to be 1959. Decor, music, TV shows, magazines, books were all from that era. The men were to be convinced/convince themselves they were back in 1959, when they were young and in good shape.

Pre: "Before arriving, the men were assessed on such measures as dexterity, grip strength, flexibility, hearing and vision, memory and cognition — probably the closest things the gerontologists of the time could come to the testable biomarkers of age."

Post: "They were suppler, showed greater manual dexterity and sat taller — just as Langer had guessed. Perhaps most improbable, their sight improved. Independent judges said they looked younger. The experimental subjects, Langer told me, had “put their mind in an earlier time,” and their bodies went along for the ride." ("...spontaneous touch-football game that erupted between heretofore creaky seniors as they waited for the bus back to Cambridge.")

And results of a similar experiment done in a BBC broadcast: "One, who had rolled up in a wheelchair, walked out with a cane. Another, who couldn’t even put his socks on unassisted at the start, hosted the final evening’s dinner party, gliding around with purpose and vim. The others walked taller and indeed seemed to look younger."

Then this afternoon, on Facebook, the coincidence and my debate ended:

"Two men for example, of precisely the same physical age, of precisely the same physical condition, will be in completely different states of mind, of competence, of effectiveness and of strength, as a direct result of their inner beliefs as to their relative freedom within the framework of the physical system in which they exist. The man who does not realize his basic independence from the physical system will not have the same freedom within it.
He will be at all times a prisoner of clock time and of aging, for he will consider these the primary conditions under which he must operate. And the action, or actions involved in this belief will therefore act upon the physical cells of his body with vengeful force, because he has himself directed them to do so."

Roberts, Jane (2013-10-30). The Early Sessions: Book 5 of The Seth Material, Session 208

The Times article is long, but worth at least skimming through. Pretty amazing stuff. @Sena it also ties in nicely with the topic you started, Can you change your body?  Seth had the short answer, this article has the long answer. :)


« Last Edit: November 25, 2016, 09:28:13 AM by Deb »

Offline Sena

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Quote from: Deb
What if age is nothing but a mind-set?
Deb, I am 67 and happy being this age. Reading books like the Seth books have helped me to have this attitude.

I did not read the article in detail, but it appears to describe the plodding work of psychologists - Good luck to them. By contrast, Seth questions the nature of physical reality. As Lynda Madden Dahl interprets it, physical reality is re-created millions of times a second. The body I have now is not the body I had microseconds ago.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2016, 09:17:00 AM by Sena »

Offline Deb

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I skimmed most of the article but really enjoyed it. Ellen Langer is quite a personality, brilliant and thinks outside the box. And once again science is starting to back up what Seth said decades ago.

Glad to hear you're happy, not everyone is. I've seen it myself: someone reaches a birthday that they consider the beginning of the end and their entire demeanor, posture, appearance, outlook, physical condition changes over night. I had this conversation with a very good friend yesterday, talked about the article with her. While she doesn't understand my interest in the Seth stuff or other things and thinks the 'creating your own reality' is a lot of hooey, she does listen and tries to understand where I'm coming from. In the end she wanted to paraphrase what I was saying, simplified it to "so I shouldn't act my age, and dance when I feel like it or jump in the pile of leaves on the lawn or sing in the shower as loud as I can without worrying about falling down and hurting myself (she's 60)?" I'm trying to at least get her to consider that 'acting her age' and 'age' are not a set of facts, they're a set of personal beliefs as to what we are supposed to do, be able to do or think or act. And that those beliefs were most likely planted by a source outside ourselves. Society. For instance all the TV and radio commercials, bill boards that insist the dividing line between youth and decrepitude is 50! AARP sending membership applications before 50 even arrives, drugs and vitamins and vaccines (i.e. shingles) being touted in a confidential tone for 'now that you're over 50!,' senior housing for 55+, senior discounts, dating services for those over 50 meaning over-the-hill. Big business... building a demographic based once again on fear.

I need to find the Seth quote where he says something about that yes, the body will age to an extent, it's planned obsolescence to make room for the new, but that we don't have to fall apart the way we are told we will and can go out in a blaze of glory rather than fading into obscurity.

Oh wait, I'm mixing Seth with a meme I saw on Facebook, lol.



Offline Sena

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Quote from: Deb
While she doesn't understand my interest in the Seth stuff or other things and thinks the 'creating your own reality' is a lot of hooey, she does listen and tries to understand where I'm coming from.
Deb, if your friend does not even understand your interest in Seth, it is not surprising that she finds her age a problem. There is quite likely an underlying fear of death there. Atheists have a fear of death (seen as extinction), though they will often vehemently deny this fear. Christians fear death because they expect to be be judged by God.

Offline Deb

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Quote from: Sena
Deb, if your friend does not even understand your interest in Seth, it is not surprising that she finds her age a problem. There is quite likely an underlying fear of death there.

Yes, either fear or she has bought into the American (or Western, in general?) concepts on aging. A throw-away society. With material goods, its often cheaper to replace something than repair it. Not much is valued. I see car junkyards filled to the brim with seemingly new cars, and I have memories of my dad constantly trying to keep our old junker running, always tinkering under the hood. Thanks to Descartes, Newton, et al. WE tend to be seen as machines, I think.

More Seth on age:

The Way Toward Health, Chapter 5:

Many people believe fervently that with approaching age they will meet a steady, disastrous deterioration in which the senses and the mind will be dull, and the body, stricken with disease, will lose all of its vigor and aging.

Many young people believe such nonsense, and therefore THEY SET THEMSELVES UP to meet the very conditions they fear.

The mind grows wiser with age WHEN IT IS ALLOWED TO DO SO. There is even an acceleration of thought and inspiration, much like that experienced in the adolescent years, that suddenly brings a new understanding to the aged individual, and provides an impetus that should help the person to achieve greater comprehension—a comprehension that should QUELL all fears of death.

The Way Toward Health, Chapter 10:

It is taken for granted that all mental, physical, spiritual and emotional satisfactions become lesser with advancing age. [...] It is often considered scandalous to even imagine sexual activity after the age of even 40 or 50.

There are very definite, excellent side-effects of growing older, that we will also discuss in this book — but here I want to assure the reader that basically speaking there are no diseases brought about by old age alone (intently).

Dreams, Evolution 1, Chapter 5 Session 902:

In that light, the senses do not fade. Age alone never brought about any loss of physical agility, or of mental ability, or of desire.

In your society age has almost been considered a dishonorable state. Beliefs about the dishonor of age often cause people to make the decision—sometimes quite consciously—to bring their own lives to an end before the so-called threshold is reached. Whenever, however, the species needs the accumulated experience of its own older members, that situation is almost instantly reversed and people live longer.

NoPR Chapter 13: Session 651:

Your beliefs about age, like everything else, will form your experience, and your mass beliefs will affect your civilization. With the current concepts held by your society, men and women fear old age from the time of youth. If young adulthood is considered the epitome of life, blessedness, and success, then old age is viewed as the opposite — a time of failure and decay.

NoPR Chapter 15: Session 656:

In many “native” cultures an individual is not considered in terms of his age at all, and the numbering of years is regarded as insignificant. In fact, a man may not know his age as you think of it. It would do you all good — young, middle-aged and old alike — to forget the number of your years, because in your culture so many beliefs are limiting in those ways. Youth is denied its wisdom and old age is denied its joy.

As creatures you are born young and grow older. Yet the animals, as creatures, are not as limited in their experience in that regard. They have no beliefs in old age that automatically shut down their abilities; so left alone, while they do physically die as all creatures must in those terms, they do not deteriorate in the same way.



Offline Monica

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I find greying hair and loss of skin pigment with 'age' a confusing matter. I wonder whether that is a not-so-natural occurrence even though it is culturally expected?

Offline Deb

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Quote from: Monica
I find greying hair and loss of skin pigment with 'age' a confusing matter. I wonder whether that is a not-so-natural occurrence even though it is culturally expected?

Good question, I wonder too. It seems like it's different for a lot of people. I was told by a hair stylist that it depends on your coloring to begin with: people with lighter hair/skin tend to lose pigment earlier. If that's the case, I kind of go against that theory if I compare myself to others my age.

So is it a matter of this:

"My friend Joseph (Rob) brought up a point concerning this before our session. He wanted to know why so many in this country wore glasses. He wondered if people unacquainted with glasses and suddenly introduced to them would develop a need for them; and they would."

or this?

"there are certain physical laws with which you must contend."

(both from NOPR Session 623)

I always look to nature for unaffected-by-belief answers to my questions about humans. I've seen dogs get a little white around the muzzle when they age, but Seth has also said that some pets adopt characteristics from their humans. My first thought it that dogs have been domesticated the longest of all animals, so have more of an affinity with us. But I don't recall other animals (and I've had more than my share of pets), domestic or otherwise, showing too many outward signs of aging. Of course it's also hard to see what's going on UNDER all the scales, fur and feathers.


Offline Batfan007

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Quote from: Sena
Quote from: Deb
What if age is nothing but a mind-set?
Deb, I am 67 and happy being this age. Reading books like the Seth books have helped me to have this attitude.

I did not read the article in detail, but it appears to describe the plodding work of psychologists - Good luck to them. By contrast, Seth questions the nature of physical reality. As Lynda Madden Dahl interprets it, physical reality is re-created millions of times a second. The body I have now is not the body I had microseconds ago.



The way I see it, is that we live in a particular reality, with particular rules, that we agreed to before we came here.
One of those rules is that eventually our body will be finished with.

If we look after our body, it will age (biologically) slower, and if don't, it tends to break down at an accelerated pace.

We've all met people who are vibrant and healthy at say age 60, who look more like a 30 year old.
And then we've met people who have done a shit ton of hard drugs, cigarettes etc who are 32 years old, but look liker they 50+ in their physical appearance.

I see nothing magical about either scenario, it's simple and easy to observe.

Offline Marianna

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When I first came across Seth ideas on aging in NoPR, they blew my mind. So, there is so much conditioning going on, we sort of ‘get the body ready’ to age! We expect it to age, to get sick often, to get wrinkles, to stop being beautiful and energetic. So, there are our beliefs and society’s ‘help’. But the great thing is that I do not have to join! If I decide not to.

I look and feel better (and I am happier) now than I was 20 years ago. I have accepted Seth idea that I can still be robust and energetic until I am 95, 98, or whenever I decide to go.
As for birthdays, I call them ‘me days’ to myself.

I enthusiastically think now that it’s up to me to make up my mind about beliefs and act accordingly. I would like to see, whether other people’s behavior will affect me with time. I’ll report my results in 5-7 years.  

Offline Deb

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You go girl, I'm with you! Two more Seth quotes on aging.

"Meaningful work is important at any age. You cannot content the aged entirely with hobbies any more than you can the young, but meaningful work means work that also has the exuberance of play, and it is that playful quality that contains within itself great propensities of a healing and creative nature." Dreams, Evolution Vol. 1, session 902

I also found this article on the effects of early retirement.

"As creatures you are born young and grow older. Yet the animals, as creatures, are not as limited in their experience in that regard. They have no beliefs in old age that automatically shut down their abilities; so left alone, while they do physically die as all creatures must in those terms, they do not deteriorate in the same way." NoPR Session 656

I guess I answered my own question: I think age is mostly a mindset.


Offline Marianna

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I wonder what 'meaningful work' is then. It's strange that Seth says it. Or it is something that works for those who are unfamiliar with Seth and similar works?

I have been out of regular work for quite a number of years (though I have been learning and getting ready for new projects), but I feel great and I am very healthy. Though certainly I am very young - only 42. You do need time for learning and improving your life and health.

I mean, when you are a happy human being - quite satisfied to enjoy life and play all and any 'games' - isn't it enough? Games in very general sense - any learning and projects.

Offline Batfan007

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Quote from: Deb
You go girl, I'm with you! Two more Seth quotes on aging.

"Meaningful work is important at any age. You cannot content the aged entirely with hobbies any more than you can the young, but meaningful work means work that also has the exuberance of play, and it is that playful quality that contains within itself great propensities of a healing and creative nature." Dreams, Evolution Vol. 1, session 902

I also found this article on the effects of early retirement.

"As creatures you are born young and grow older. Yet the animals, as creatures, are not as limited in their experience in that regard. They have no beliefs in old age that automatically shut down their abilities; so left alone, while they do physically die as all creatures must in those terms, they do not deteriorate in the same way." NoPR Session 656

I guess I answered my own question: I think age is mostly a mindset.



Doing work training this week for new job (but old familiar role) and the subject was skin care particularly for the elderly. Lot of sciencey stuff, which makes sense to me, aging, elasticity of skin, wound care, collagen yadda yadda yadda. The "age" we stop making this and that protein in our bodies (according to traditional models).

But at the same time, age for me is really mental age, and the physical deterioration of your bodies (inevitable) can be slowed down by anti-oxidants, low levels of stress, looking after ourselves etc, or accelerated into physical/biological aging by mistreating out bodies etc.

Chopra wrote an interesting book years back "Ageless Bodym, Timeless Mind" few good Seth-style experiments in that book.
Full title:  "Ageless Body, Timeless Mind: The Quantum Alternative to Growing Old"  https://www.amazon.com/Ageless-Body-Timeless-Mind-Alternative/dp/0517882124

But he (Chopra) also makes a strong case for not one, but THREE ages for any person bound in time and physicality.

*Biological age (measurable in science terms/ biomarkers etc)
*Mental Age
*The age you Feel you are

My memory is foggy if this is the actual 3 he mentions, as I don't have the book to hand, but I will edit this post later if different.

« Last Edit: January 12, 2017, 11:58:14 PM by Batfan007 »

Offline Marianna

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Quote from: Batfan007
But at the same time, age for me is really mental age, and the physical deterioration of your bodies (inevitable) can be slowed down by anti-oxidants, low levels of stress, looking after ourselves etc, or accelerated into physical/biological aging by mistreating out bodies etc.

Even before I came across Seth info, I started unconsciously creating for myself not hectic, low stress environment, with very reasonable or no deadlines. And now it appears that it is the best variant and does a whole bunch of good in a lot of areas!

I thought it was just me :). I noticed that tough deadlines and 'I need it for yesterday' just does not sit right with me. I have benefited from this set up greatly - and my health especially.

Thanks for the book link. Is it worth buying or is it just basically Seth info?

Offline Batfan007

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Quote from: Marianna
Quote from: Batfan007
But at the same time, age for me is really mental age, and the physical deterioration of your bodies (inevitable) can be slowed down by anti-oxidants, low levels of stress, looking after ourselves etc, or accelerated into physical/biological aging by mistreating out bodies etc.

Even before I came across Seth info, I started unconsciously creating for myself not hectic, low stress environment, with very reasonable or no deadlines. And now it appears that it is the best variant and does a whole bunch of good in a lot of areas!

I thought it was just me :). I noticed that tough deadlines and 'I need it for yesterday' just does not sit right with me. I have benefited from this set up greatly - and my health especially.

Thanks for the book link. Is it worth buying or is it just basically Seth info?



If you've read Seth, then yes more of the same ideas. However it is a most joyful and fun read, rooted in entirely different paradigm thant he one we collectively grew up with. It's again a book about consciousness, and how we focus and use our bodies. It has some fun experiments in Autogenics that anyone can try out in the space of minutes (making one hand hotter, one hand colder for example, just by intention/attention).

It really is a classic, and although I am familiar with the material, I can pick it up and read it anyday, and it's just like a ray of sunshine, and really not a word in the book is wasted. It may be boring for some, but to me it's as much a work of art (in the way Deepak smoothly delivers the ideas and concepts) a practical book to read. It's like Jazz-Zen-Ayurveda.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2017, 04:24:08 PM by Batfan007 »

Offline Marianna

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Thank you Batfan007 for the info. I've added Chopra's book to my Amazon list, but I am staying with Seth material so far. It is most interesting. Besides, you know how it is with Seth - a lot of stuff I miss on the first reading :).

Offline Batfan007

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Ironically I've had at least 3 older folks tell me this week "Don't get old" and of course I do not reply with a smart ass line of "well, I (capital I, the overself) never will dear friend" and neither will you! 8)

 

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