Mass Events

[jbseth]

Hi All,

For many years now, Seth's concepts behind the nature of mass event have somewhat perplexed me. To be honest, I don't feel that I completely understand how mass events actually work. Especially in regards to an individual's ability to create their own reality.

For example, let's take a look at the issue of war.  If I create my reality, and if I really don't like war, then why does war exist in my reality? Is war a "root assumption" of this reality? I don't think so. Aren't there probable realities that are war free? Yes, I believe there are. Can't I choose to live in war free reality and if not, then why not? What's really going on here?


As a result of this and some thought provoking comments made by WindWalker under the topic titled "Collective Consciousness" at this site, I recently embarked upon a deep dig research into Seth's information on mass events. As a part of this research, I completely re-read the Seth book, "The Individual and the Nature of Mass Events". I've also dug into what Seth had to say in some of his other books (he also talks about mass events in NoPR and NotP).

To be honest, having completed this investigation, I'm not sure I have a complete understanding of everything that has to do with mass events yet, but I do at least have a much better understanding of this topic, than I did before. Not surprisingly, this is a very involved topic.

The following are some of the concepts that I learned about mass events.

 
If you have any comments, questions, observations or learnings about mass events, please feel free to share them here with the rest of the forum members.

Thanks

-jbseth




In "The Nature of Personal Reality", NoPR, Chapter 2, Session, 614, Seth says:

"You Make Your Own Reality"

Then a little further down, in this same book, chapter and session, he also tells us a little about this. Here he says:

[...] "You are in physical existence to learn and understand, that your energy, translated into feelings, thoughts and emotions, causes all experience. There are no exceptions."

"Once you understand this you have only to learn the nature of your beliefs, for these will automatically cause you to feel and think in certain fashions. Your emotions follow your beliefs. It is not the other way around."

In this same book, Seth also tells us about the relationship between our beliefs and reality. In Chapter 4, Session 621, Seth says the following:

"As mentioned (in the 614th session in Chapter Two), the first important step is to realize that your beliefs about reality are just that - beliefs about reality and not necessarily attributes of reality. You must make a clear distinction between you and your beliefs. You must then realize that your beliefs are physically materialized. What you believe to be true in your experience is true."

It seems to me that our recognition and understanding of this important concept, has a lot to do with our understanding of both the nature of personal events and the nature of mass events.

For example, if a man believes the scientific point of view that the chaotic occurrences of nature, (lightning strikes, tornados, etc.) have absolutely no relationship to the thoughts and ideas of man, then he will end up creating a reality that will reinforce this belief. That is, in this situation, the reality of this man, will appear to reinforce his belief that the occurrences of nature, have no relationship to the thoughts and ideas of man.

On the other hand, if a man believes the religious point of view that the chaotic occurrences of nature, are signs from a vengeful God who is angry at mankind for the various sins that mankind has committed, then he will end up creating a reality that will reinforce this belief.  That is, in this situation, the reality of this man, will appear to reinforce his belief that the occurrences of nature are all acts of an angry and vengeful God.

The issue here is that for these 2 men, their beliefs limit their understanding of the actual relationship that exists between man and nature.  Furthermore, for these 2 men, these beliefs also limit their understanding of the nature of mass events.



In, "The Individual and The Nature of Mass Events", NoME, Seth tells us that many people have beliefs (in this book, he refers to these beliefs as "myths") that keep them from understanding the true nature of mass events. In Chapter 3, Session 823, of NoME, he says:

Dictation. (With many pauses:) The main myth through which you interpret your experiences, however, is the one that tells you that all perception and knowledge must come to you through the physical senses.

This is the myth of the exteriorized consciousness — a consciousness that you are told is open-ended only so far as objective reality is concerned.

[...]That myth also makes your own involvement with mass events sometimes appear incomprehensible.


In, Chapter 5, Session 830 of NoME, Seth also says: 

It is somewhat of a psychological trick, in your day and age, to come to the realization that you do in fact form your experience and your world, simply because the weight of evidence seems (underlined twice) to be so loaded at the other end, because of your habits of perception.

[...]

As long as you believe that either good events or bad ones are meted out by a personified God as the reward or punishment for your actions, or on the other hand that events are largely meaningless, chaotic, subjective knots in the tangled web of an accidental Darwinian world, then you cannot consciously understand your own creativity, or play the role in the universe that you are capable of playing as individuals or as a species. You will instead live in a world where events happen to you, in which you must do sacrifice to the gods of one kind or another, or see yourselves as victims of an uncaring nature.






Then, in Chapter 4, Session 827 of NoME, Seth tells us:  (bold font is mine)

If you are involved in any kind of mass happening, from a concert to an avalanche, you are aware on other levels of all of the actions leading to that specific participation. If buildings are constructed of bricks quite visible, so mass events are formed by many small, invisible happenings — each, however, fitting together quite precisely in a kind of psychological masonry in which each of you has a mental hand. This applies to mass conversions and to natural disasters alike.

Then, along with this, in Chapter 4, Session 804 of NoME, Seth tells us:

[...]

[...] If mass action against appalling social or political conditions is not effective, then other means are taken, and these are often in the guise of epidemics or natural disasters. The blight is wiped out in one way or another.



Along with this information, Seth also has the following to say specifically about certain types of mass events. In Chapter 1, Session 802 of NoME, Seth tells us the following about epidemics:  (bold font is mine)

Dictation: (Pause, one of many.) Now: To a certain extent (underlined), epidemics are the result of a mass suicide phenomenon on the parts of those involved.

[...]

In some historical periods the plight of the poor was so horrible, so unendurable, that outbreaks of the plague occurred, literally resulting in a complete destruction of large areas of the environment in which such social, political, and economic conditions existed. [Those] plagues took rich and poor alike, however, so the complacent well-to-do could see quite clearly, for example, that to some extent sanitary conditions, privacy, peace of mind, had to be granted to the poor alike, for the results of their dissatisfaction would have quite practical results. Those were deaths of protest.

[...]

Now if you believe in one life only, then such conditions will seem most disastrous, and in your terms they clearly are not pretty. Yet, though each victim in an epidemic may die his or her own death, that death becomes part of a mass social protest.

[...]

The epidemics then serve many purposes — warning that certain conditions will not be tolerated. There is a biological outrage that will be continually expressed until the conditions are changed.

Seth also has the following to say specifically about man and nature in regards to mass events. In Chapter 4, Session 826 of NoME, Seth tells us the following: 

At certain levels these intents of man and nature may merge. I am speaking in very simple terms now, and yet those involved in a flood, for example, want the past washed away, or want to be flooded by bursts of vital emotions such as disasters often bring. They want to feel a renewed sense of nature's power, and often, though devastated, they use the experience to start a new life.

Those with other intents will find excuses to leave such areas. There will be, perhaps, a chance meeting that will result in a hasty trip. On a hunch someone else might suddenly leave the area to find a new job, or decide to visit a friend in another state. Those whose experiences do not merge with nature's in that regard will not be part of that mass event. They will act on information that comes to them from Framework 2. Those who stay also act on the same information, by choosing to participate.


Finally, Seth has the following to say about war. In Chapter 6, Session 835 of NoME, Seth tells us the following:  (bold font is mine)

[...]

We often have in your society the opposite suggestion, however, given quite regularly: "Every day, in every way, I am growing worse, and so is the world." You have meditations for disaster, beliefs that invite private and mass tragedies. They are usually masked by the polite clothing of conventional acceptance. (Pause.) Many thousands may die in a particular battle or war, for example. The deaths are accepted almost as a matter of course. These are victims of war, without question. It seldom occurs to anyone that these are victims of beliefs (emphatically) — since the guns are quite real, and the bombs and the combat.

The enemy is obvious. His intentions are evil. Wars are basically examples of mass suicide — embarked upon, however, with all of the battle's paraphernalia, carried out through mass suggestion, and through the nation's greatest resources, by men who are convinced that the universe is unsafe, that the self cannot be trusted, and that strangers are always hostile. You take it for granted that the species is aggressively combative. You must out-think the enemy nation before you yourself are destroyed. These paranoiac tendencies are largely hidden beneath man's nationalistic banners.


Along with this, Seth also says the following about war in Chapter 7, Session 854 of NoME, he says: 

[...]

[...] War always makes you less as a species than you could be.

[...] To kill for the sake of peace only makes you better killers, and nothing will change that. In any war, both sides are fanatical to the extent that they are involved. I am quite aware that often war seems to be your only practical course, because of the set of beliefs that are, relatively speaking, worldwide. Until you change those beliefs, war will seem to have some practical value — a value which is highly deceptive, and quite false.


In summary, it seems to me that Seth is telling us that we do create our reality. However, in regards to mass events, he's also tells us that our beliefs can make our involvement with mass events, incomprehensible.

While it is somewhat of a trick in today's world to come to the realization that we do in fact create our reality (due to the overwhelming weight of evidence that seems to suggest otherwise), as long as we believe in some of the "myths" that we accept, it will appear that events happen to us and that we are victims of these events.

Seth also tells us that if we are involved in any kind of mass happening, then we are aware, "on other levels" of all the actions that lead to our participation. This seems to be saying that we won't necessarily be aware of this at a "conscious" level.

Then Seth tells us a little about mankind's relationship to the various types of mass events. He tells us that if mass action against horrible political or social conditions are not effective, then mankind will make use of other means (epidemics or natural disasters) to eliminate these conditions. 

Seth also tells us that epidemics are often a mass suicide phenomenon, where the deaths, are deaths of protest. Seth then explains how and why people either choose to, or choose not to, participate in some mass evens such as natural disasters. 

Then Seth tells us about how we "invite" mass tragedies like wars, into existence, via the negative beliefs that we dwell upon. Furthermore, until we change these beliefs, worldwide, war will continue to "seem" to have a practical value.



One final note. In regards to mass events, not only does Seth's discuss this topic in the book, "The Individual and the Nature of Mass Events", NoME, but he also has a good discussion of it in both "The Nature of Personal Reality", NoPR and "The Nature of the Psyche: Its Human Expression", NotP.


In NoPR, go to Chapter 18, Session 644. In this chapter /session, this mass event topic starts immediately after "(11:20)" and goes all the way to the end of chapter 18 (Session 666). Here Seth talks about the mankind's connections with the weather and other natural events. Then he talks specifically about the hows and whys of Rob and Jane's participation with the flood of the Chemung River in June 1972.  This is very good information on how and why humans get involved in mass events. 

In NotP, go to Chapter 9, session 789 and session 792. This information begins in Session 789, at the third paragraph after the break from (10:15 to 10:38).  It also continues in NotP, Chapter 9, Session 792 beginning at the third paragraph after the break from (10:07 to 10:29).

The End

[Sena]

Seth also tells us that epidemics are often a mass suicide phenomenon

jbseth, thanks for highlighting this topic. I wonder whether global warming could also be a mass suicide phenomenon?

"The mercury is forecast to approach 105 degrees (40.6 Celsius) in Madrid on Friday, which would be its highest temperature ever recorded."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2019/06/26/european-heat-wave-france-germany-poland-czech-republic-set-june-records-worst-is-still-come/?utm_term=.73c71c9d5951

[jbseth]

Hi Sena, Hi All,

In your previous post, reply#1 you said, "I wonder whether global warming could also be a mass suicide phenomenon?"

I think it's entirely possible that this could be a reason behind global warming.


Recently, given what I've recently come in investigating what Seth has to say about mass events, I've been thinking along a somewhat related line.  In "The Nature of Personal Reality", (NoPR) Chapter 18, Session 664, Seth says: (bold font is mine)

[...]

[...] Your planet has a body as much as you have. Your blood follows certain prescribed patterns and so does the wind. You are inside the body of the earth in those terms. As cells within your body influence it, so does your body affect the larger body of the earth. [...]


Then in, NoPR, Chapter 18, Session 665, Seth also says: (bold font is mine)

[...]

[...] Certainly thousands of individuals, or millions of them, do not consciously decide to bring about a hurricane, or a flood or an earthquake, [...] While conscious beliefs have a part to play in such cases, on an individual basis the "inner work" is done just as unconsciously as the body produces physical symptoms. The symptoms often seem to be inflicted upon the body, just as a natural disaster seems to be visited upon the body of the earth. Sudden illnesses are thought of as frightening and unpredictable, with the sufferer a victim, perhaps, of a virus. Sudden tornadoes or earthquakes are seen in the same light, as the result of air currents and temperature, or fault lines instead of viruses. The basic causes of both, however, are the same.

(10:27.) There are as many reasons then for "earth illnesses" as there are for body illnesses.






Here, in these two sessions, Seth seems to be telling us that, just like we humans, Planet Earth also has its own body, and, it also has its own illnesses; Seth refers to these as "earth illnesses."

Now, what do we humans typically do, when we get some sort of illness? Typically, we seek some sort of corrective action to eliminate to source of the problem.

Given this then, what can we expect Planet Earth to do, if it comes to an understanding that mankind is the source of too many of its earth illnesses? I think it's reasonable to assume that it will likewise seek some sort of corrective action to eliminate to source of the problem.

It seems to me that this corrective action, taken on the part of Planet Earth, could be very bad for mankind.

-jbseth

[jbseth]

Hi All,

I've just recently discovered that in "The Nature of Personal Reality", Chapter 18, Sessions 664, 665 and 666, Seth had quite a bit to say about "mass events". In fact, the information in the 9 paragraphs below from Session 664, is some of the very best that I've come across from Seth in that it explains many if the various issues involved in mass events and how they all connect together.


The following is from "The Nature of Personal Reality", Chapter 18, Session 664.

[... 27 paragraphs ...]

Now: On other than conscious levels, simply as creatures, you are well aware of impending storms, floods, tornadoes, earthquakes, and so forth.

There are many hints and signs picked up by the body itself — alterations in air pressure, magnetic orientation in terms of balance, minute electrical differentiations of which the skin itself is aware. On that level the body is often prepared for natural calamities before they occur. Defenses are set up.

Many additional issues operate, however, that have to do with any given personal reaction. Here other psychological conditions enter in. People live in regions threatened by earthquakes with clear conscious knowledge of them. Regardless of what they might say, they need and enjoy the constant stimuli and excitement; the very unpredictable nature of the circumstances arouses them to action. There are many different attitudes and characteristics that apply, so that it is difficult to make generalizations, but there are always reasons why any individual is involved in a disastrous natural catastrophe.

(Pause.) In many cases a near-conscious realization of the circumstances occurs beforehand. In other cases the body's foreknowledge is reflected in dreams, and so alters daily life that an escape takes place. Some people change their plans and leave town a day before a disaster comes about. Others stay.

None of this is accidental. Unconscious material is admitted into consciousness according to those beliefs an individual holds about himself, his reality, and his place in it. No one dies in a disaster who has not chosen to do so. There is always some conscious recognition, however, though the individual may play tricks with himself and pretend it is not there. Even animals sense their dying ahead of time, and on that level man is no different.

(12:23.) Those who want to use their unconscious precognition of such an event will take advantage of it — save themselves, and choose not to be involved. If they do not believe in such advance warnings and deny themselves conscious knowledge, yet still believe in their overall security, they will unconsciously act without knowledge of their reasons. There will be others who are a part of the calamity for their own reasons.

Psychically, mentally and physically, they will be as much a part of such an event as, say, the water that sweeps through a town in a flood. They will utilize the physical catastrophe as an individual might use a symptom for purposes of challenge, growth, or understanding — but they will choose their disaster just as they will choose their symptoms. They will be aware of the framework, therefore. It will not be thrust upon them.

They may not consciously accept such information, but if they knew how to examine themselves, they would discover that their beliefs added up to precisely the given kind of situation. (Pause.) An illness of a severe nature may be used by an individual to put him or her into the most intimate contact with the powers of life and death, to initiate a crisis in order to mobilize buried survival instincts, to vividly portray great points of contrast and summon all of his or her strength.

So can a catastrophe be used consciously or unconsciously, according to the individual.

-jbseth

[Deb]

It seems to me that this corrective action, taken on the part of Planet Earth, could be very bad for mankind.

GREAT topic, thanks jbseth for doing all of this.

The global warming/climate change issue is something I think about as being both a natural phenomenon (as we've apparently been through several in ancient history, ice age for instance NOT caused by man) but also that humans could contribute to the problem. But then so would volcanic eruptions or a major meteor strike I suppose. I've always felt that nature can take care of itself and that the humans would be the losers in the end: we could create unhealthy conditions on the planet that we may not survive... and then nature would be free to recover. Thinking of Chernobyl...

As far as global warming being mass suicide tendencies... that's a good question. I don't feel that personally, I see it more as a (pre-disaster) wakeup call for humans to finally become aware of the negative impact we can have on the planet and each other. Look at how we've (the USA) in the past regularly poisoned lakes and rivers, polluted cities and the oceans, dumped trash into the ocean for who knows how long, with no thought for long-term consequences. I remember being a kid growing up in NJ and see trash barges that would take the garbage far out into the Atlantic for dumping. We don't do that any more. We are finally saying NO to GMOs and Monsanto. We (not all) are finally becoming more aware of how wrong that is, learning to hopefully again respect, appreciate and live in harmony with nature.

As Seth said we became separated from nature, I am hoping the issues we're facing with the health of the planet are going to swing us back in the other direction.

BTW I saw an amazing documentary last week, The Biggest Little Farm. It's about a young couple who decide they want to start an organic, sustainable farm working in concert with nature (contrasted by the desolate and abandoned farms surrounding them that were pretty much one-crop factory farms and eventually devastated by nature). It was a very hard to watch at times when nature got the best of them, but they learned to observe nature and balance the situations they were up against in natural ways. And nature helped them to succeed in the end. There is a fledgling movement of going back to natural, sustainable farming. Because we are realizing that factory farming is killing the nutrition in our food, the quality of soil, human health. Factory farm raising of food animals is inhumane and produces poor quality product. People are finally starting to realize that. We are waking up.

[jbseth]

Hi Deb,

Thanks for your reply.

I've seen many relatively recent photos showing the polar ice caps being very far away from the shore of Northern Alaska, where in earlier years, the polar bears did not have to swim through literally miles of water from the shore, to get to them. I've also seen photos showing the ice meltoff that's occurred in Greenland and its quite large.

Do I think that a global warming trend is occurring? Yes.

Do I think that the only reason that this is occurring is just because there is a regular earth cycle climatic change occurring?

No, not really. I do believe that there "could be" a component of this global warming that we're experiencing, that is due to a regular earth cycle climatic change.  However, I have a hard time believing that this is all there is to it, given the horrendous things we've done over the last 150 years or so.


Consider this. In the last 150 years we've had 2 major world wars and many minor ones. We've released untold nuclear material into the atmosphere and soil from nuclear bombs, nuclear testing, Chernobyl, Harrisburg and who know where and what else. In addition to this, we've released horrendous amounts of chemicals such as mustard gas, chlorine gas, nerve gas, agent orange, DDT and various fertilizers into the air, the water and the soil. We've cut down numerous trees in the jungles, to make room for farms. We've killed very many animal species such that many of them are now nearly extinct, (rhinoceroses, elephants, whales, great white sharks, etc.) and we've damaged the oceans with very many leaks from oil tankers and the Gulf of Mexico, for example, with fracking.


Yes, I think that the earth does have a great ability to rebound from many of these things. However, I also believe that there is some point, some threshold, that can be crossed where there is no turning back, or where the time it takes for the earth to rebound, will be too long for mankind to survive.

The half-life of many of the nuclear reactants, for example, goes into the thousands of years.

Here's the thing. It doesn't have to continue on this way. It's up to us to make the changes that need to made, and if we don't, well I think that the earth will respond as needed.

-jbseth








,
I think that people have a tendency to turn a blind eye to the fact that mankind has done some horrible things here.

[jbseth]

Hi All,

I did some more digging and I discovered that Seth spoke about Mass Events in several of his books.
The following is a list of books by both Jane Roberts and Seth that contain information on the topic of Mass Events. There may also be other Jane Roberts / Seth books that contain information on Mass Events that are not listed here.


TES8, S342, (p30 - p31)

NoPR, Ch 18, S664 - S666 (p349 - p366)

Adventures in Consciousness, Ch18, (p229 - p231)

NotP, Ch 9, S789 (p154 - p155) and Ch 9, S792 (p169)

NOME – (nearly the entire book)

DEaVF1, Ch 3, S891 (Mass-shared world) (p181)


-jbseth

[Deb]

Yes, I think that the earth does have a great ability to rebound from many of these things. However, I also believe that there is some point, some threshold, that can be crossed where there is no turning back, or where the time it takes for the earth to rebound, will be too long for mankind to survive.

That's what I meant. We could potentially create a situation so toxic for mankind, that humans will be annihilated and the planet will be left to recover without us. I feel we would kill ourselves off long before we could destroy the planet itself. I'm trying to balance that with the thought that our planet is a part of our camouflage reality. It is real enough for us though and I think Seth said that the planet has been depopulated and repopulated more than once.

I see the climate change situation as a nudge from the greater consciousness for us to wake up and do the right thing. It would have to be things as dramatic as the polar caps melting, drastic swings in climate, nuclear bomb destruction, nuclear reactor breakdowns, the effect of deforestation, endangered and extinct species... because as I think Seth also said, we are incredibly slow learners and need some prodding. The one line from Bladerunner forever runs through my head, something like, "then we are stupid and we're all going to die."

I think that people have a tendency to turn a blind eye to the fact that mankind has done some horrible things here.

I would personally say "some" people. I've seen a lot of awareness and progress just in my lifetime. And I think a lot of countries are on board, while there are still some contributors to things such as pollution, "raping" the earth, trophy hunting and poaching, horrendous human rights violations. Crimes against nature, humanity, consciousness.

I've been trying to be a part of the solution and set an example to people in my life. One of the better things I can do, I think, is to try to focus on the progress in humanity and not the slackers. My expectation (hope?) is that we continue to recognize and discontinue destructive behavior and accept again the fact that we are a part of and not apart from nature.

[jbseth]

Hi Deb,

Thanks for your thoughtful reply.

I'm an "environmentalist" at heart and I sense that you are too.

I get frustrated when I see a news video about some senator who claims that there's no climate change going on, that this is all just an earth climatic cycle and then later you find out that he's had lobbyists from some companies like "Dow Chemicals" or "Dupont" donate large sums of money to his campaign.  In my mind, there seems to be something fundamentally wrong with that process.


My statement about people turning a blind eye,... was something that I had originally written in the word document that I used to write this post (sometimes when I write a post or reply to a post, I use "Microsoft Word" and just copy and paste the word document into the reply box).

However, after writing this statement, I decided to delete it as I decided that I wanted to say something else and so I just pushed it down to the bottom the word document with the intention of deleting it later. Once I finished this reply however, I forgot to delete this statement before I copied and pasted it into the reply box. This statement was not intended to be part of my post.

I agree, this sentence sounds better with "some" people, but when I wrote this, I was specifically thinking about this senator that I mentioned above.

While I know that there are people like us who really do care about these issues, I also recognize that there are also people like the senator, who I mentioned above.


What concerns, me to some degree, is the amount of environmental damage that we don't even see or hear about. Probably about 10 – 15 years ago, I saw an article from National Geographic about some Balkan area country. The full article was about this specific country, the people who live there and their culture; a typical Nat Geo article. However, one or two of the photos showed pictures of the remnants of a forest that use to exist there. This forest looked something like one of the scenes of Mordor in the "Lord of the Rings" movie. It was horrible. The article mentioned that this forest was destroyed by the fact that these people almost exclusively used coal for heating and cooking for the many years during the cold war when this eastern European country was part of the Soviet empire.

Then maybe sometime last year or so, I became aware, like many of us, that we no longer have a location where we can recycle our plastics bottles and tubs, those with various labels like 1, 2, 3, 4 etc. on them. Why? Because China is no longer accepting them.

This makes me wonder, what exactly was China doing with all of this plastic material in the first place? Were they actually recycling it or were they just dumping it somewhere? And why is it, that China made the decision to no longer accept it? I've seen pictures of places like Shanghai, and I know that the air quality there is horrendous.


Then I put on my Seth hat and realize that we create our reality and the earth has been through many cycles where human civilizations have achieved the level that we have reached and then either destroyed themselves or didn't and succeeded into more spiritually advanced situations.

I personally would like to see us not destroy ourselves. But if we, the race of mankind, aren't able to rise above our issues, then maybe we won't and the creator entities that Seth talks about will have to start over again.


By the way, I thought your "Biggest Little Farm" trailer video was really interesting. I'd like to see that documentary sometime. My sisters (one in Texas and one in Arizona) both live on different types of farms, and I can attest to the fact that there is much more that goes on behind the scenes in running and working a farm than some people are aware of.  


-jbseth

[LenKop]

Given this then, what can we expect Planet Earth to do, if it comes to an understanding that mankind is the source of too many of its earth illnesses? I think it's reasonable to assume that it will likewise seek some sort of corrective action to eliminate to source of the problem.

I find this angle intriguing.

If the earth has a body that is getting ill, then just like us humans, it surely has some kind of mind/spirit/awareness that goes along with the body. If we create our reality, then, doesn't the earth create it's reality? So, the climate change thing, is it a creation toward value fulfillment on some planetary level, with us human 'viruses' just part of the play to achieve this goal?

Now, following that logic, all of our illnesses are the same; a way for us to experience and create a value fulfillment in our lives. Diseases which we create for ourselves, by ourselves, to enrich ourselves.

The problem arises if we say that mankind is solely responsible for the earth's 'illness'. If we follow that logic, then our viruses are solely responsible for our diseases and we, as individuals, are just lumps of meat acting as a playground for the microscopic world. Even guarding against such illnesses becomes pointless as we would have no real power toward creating our personal destinies.

I know I'm simplifying here, but I find the climate change debate in regards to 'saving' a planet that has been around for billions of years quite moot, particularly from a scientific point of view. Saving ourselves, that's a different thing...

Len

[Deb]

If the earth has a body that is getting ill, then just like us humans, it surely has some kind of mind/spirit/awareness that goes along with the body. If we create our reality, then, doesn't the earth create it's reality? So, the climate change thing, is it a creation toward value fulfillment on some planetary level, with us human 'viruses' just part of the play to achieve this goal?

Now, following that logic, all of our illnesses are the same; a way for us to experience and create a value fulfillment in our lives. Diseases which we create for ourselves, by ourselves, to enrich ourselves.

Ooooo, good one @LenKop! I've been thinking about this all morning. I agree we should be more concerned about saving ourselves, because what we do is impacting us. And yes I suppose the planet must have its own reasons for participating, its own value fulfillment. It's not only about "us".

Becoming aware of how we create imbalances, I think, is a part of our education here. Awareness and acceptance are the first steps to effecting change, and more people are becoming aware of our impact. That Biggest Little Farm move demonstrates how even when we do things that are not considered "bad" by most standards, when we interfere in nature's balance in any way, things get way out of whack and we need to find a way to restore a natural balance or we pay for it.

While I feel humans can and do affect nature in negative ways (i.e. Hiroshima, Chernobyl, deforestation, polluted lakes and streams, industrial farming, a sea of plastic), if we believe Seth, then it would have to be with cooperation on some level with this school we call Earth. No victims, right? If you've seen documentaries on Chernobyl, you'll see that while it's unhealthy for human habitation (unless you're one of the Babushkas of Chernobyl, another great documentary), the plants have taken over and, if you can believe it, it has become a wildlife refuge! "...the absence of humans inside the exclusion zone could be favoring many species..." Jeez maybe we are just a virus, or a cancer.

"Physically speaking, earth itself has its own kind of gestalt consciousness. If you must, then think of that earth consciousness as grading (spelled) upward in great slopes of awareness from relatively "inert" particles of dust and stone through the mineral, vegetable, and animal kingdoms. [...] If you will remember that even atoms and molecules have consciousness, then it will be easier for you to understand that there is indeed a certain kind of awareness that unites these kingdoms." —UR2 Section 4: Session 705 June 24, 1974

Oh, @jbseth, sorry but somehow I'd missed your July 1 post. Once in a while I don't get notification of new posts and sometimes one will get buried. I also copy & paste most of my posts, but from an Apple Text Editor because I had problems with formatting being carried over from Word.

The thing about the senator... I want to wonder if it could also be his making his own reality? Just playing Devil's Advocate. I don't trust politicians. Or most of the media. I think lobbying should be outlawed, there's too much corruption in the mechanics of government and big business as it is. I appreciate capitalism but flat out greed causes a lot of problems. And most people are too trusting of the government and the system.

Curious about China, I had no idea they were recycling our plastic. I would bet they were burning or dumping it—they are the biggest contributor to pollution and toxic substances. We in the US can change our errant ways, but we can't force the rest of the world to do the same.

[LarryH]

I cannot believe that China would buy our recyclable materials only to dump them. What would be the logic in that? It is more likely that the current trade dispute may be causing China to reduce its purchase of our materials. While China is a major polluter, it is also making rapid gains in addressing that problem, something that cannot be said for the US during the current administration (official climate change denial, pulling out of the international environmental accords, rolling back previous environmental regulations). I traveled all over China 3 years ago, and Beijing had horrible air pollution. But everywhere else I went was much better (including Shanghai, mentioned above).

[Deb]

I cannot believe that China would buy our recyclable materials only to dump them. What would be the logic in that?

I assumed that we were paying China to take our recycling away, it just seems like something we'd do. Of course then I had to do a little research. This is just one article about the situation, but apparently at one point China was taking in 70% of the world's recycling. It was very profitable. They were loading it in what would otherwise be empty cargo ships returning to China. Then they realized there were some things too hard or expensive to recycle that were ending up in their landfills, farms and waterways.

"And what we found confirms some of our worst nightmares: dumping in the local canyon of materials they couldn't recycle, plastic in the farmland incorporated into the soil of the cornfields nearby..."

Other SE Asian countries tried to take on recycling.

"Wilson visited a town near a recycling plant in the city of Surabaya. The plant takes paper bales mixed with plastic.

'That plastic gets separated by the paper factory,' he says. 'It gets dumped in the neighboring community, and then the only way to get rid of it is to openly burn it. It is also used as fuel for boiling water to make tofu in small tofu factories all around. ... Air, water and land (are) all affected by this.'"

So it's not just a US problem, it's a worldwide problem. I remember reading a few weeks ago that the Philippines was sending garbage and recycling "back" to Canada. Apparently Canada is the #1 garbage producing country in the world.

We definitely need to ditch or deal with plastic and tackle waste problems.

[jbseth]

Hi LenKop, Hi All,

In Reply #9 above, you bring up a lot of interesting points.  I've been trying to figure out how to reply to that post.  I think that we could have some interesting discussions on value fulfillment, the psychic structure of planet earth itself, the nature illnesses and disease and the nature of time (from your comment about 'saving' a planet that has been around for billions of years). Rather than go that route however, let me just say this instead.

It appears to me that we humans are polluting the earth. We are doing this with various methods such as nuclear waste, chemical dumping, crude oil spills, and just plain massive piles of garbage. In addition to this, we are also directly or indirectly killing off many of the animal species and much of the plant life such as the tropical forests.

This situation is further aggravated by the fact that we presently have 6 billion people on earth.

Given this then, I think that it's possible that if we continue to overpopulate and pollute the earth as we have been, we can potentially kill most or all of ourselves off (the human race) along with perhaps many other life forms as well.

We, the human race, do have a choice here. We can "consciously" decide to do something about this issue, or not. The choice is ours.

-jbseth

[LenKop]

We, the human race, do have a choice here. We can "consciously" decide to do something about this issue, or not. The choice is ours.

Do you believe that we consciously decide on mass issues?

I don't know about that. How do I, who live in Australia, contribute consciously to an oil spill in the gulf of Mexico?

Now, we may say that my beliefs and actions should follow along positive environmental routes, and they do, and they have, and in fact, I don't know anyone who has celebrated a man-made disaster. In fact, everyone deplores these incidents, including the companies that are liable. Hence my reply earlier regarding a greater force at work here, that is beyond just humanity's conscious motives toward peace on earth and green energy.

Mass events might be one of the most difficult topics to dissect, whether they're seemingly for our benefit or not.

Len

[jbseth]

Hi Lenkop, Hi All,

Actually the point that I was trying to make was that we can "consciously" decide to do something about the environmental problems that we have.

For example, we can consciously decide to vote for environmentally friendly civil servants and laws, we can consciously decide to personally participate in recycling, planting trees, not using DDT for example and personally participate in those actions that support cleaning up and improving the environment. We can consciously decide to individually do, what is our part to do in helping to clean up our environment.  And yes, we can do all of this consciously.

I'm not aiming this at you or trying to lecture you or anyone else here. Rather what I'm trying to do is point out that we each can consciously participate in this.


Do I personally think that you or I consciously create an oil spill like the one that occurred just recently in California by Chevron?

https://www.snopes.com/ap/2019/07/15/chevron-ordered-to-halt-oil-spill-into-california-canyon/

After re-reading the "Mass Events" book, I don't think that we do this consciously.

However, by the mere fact that this has occurred in our world, a mass event, we perhaps have subconsciously "allowed" it to occur both individually and in mass for one reason or another.

-jbseth

[Sena]

jbseth, thanks for this interesting topic. My understanding of Seth's teaching is that the purpose of human life on Earth is to provide learning experiences for individual personalities. Once all existing Entitities decide that the learning process is complete, human life on Earth will come to an end. This could happen in 2000 years or 3000 years or much sooner (These are my figures, not Seth's). There will be no need for an environmental catastrophe or nuclear holocaust. One could ask why Seth chose to make his revelations in the late 20th century - It could be to prepare human beings for this eventuality.

There is a scientfic viewpoint according to which human life is a very unstable condition which could cease quite quickly. This is the view of  paleontologist Peter Ward:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medea_hypothesis

Seth quotes on learning experiences:

"Now some of those within your reality are having their first experience with an ego as you think of it. Others are returning to it, the system, in an effort to learn more. There are guardians, so to speak, within your system, reincarnated for the last time to help keep it in some kind of order while the others mature. There are also some, not physical, who keep an eye out over the whole proceedings.

[... 4 paragraphs ...]

Now. Those within the system know this. Regardless of what you may think of their present performance at any given "time" in quotes, it is from this system that the greatest potentials emerge; for having dealt with it, consciousness undergoes one of the severest tests in learning to handle its own energy.

The horror and the results of mismanagement, and the vulnerability, are the teaching methods that each consciousness has accepted before entering your system. There is no way out but to learn or to ruin the entire system. In no other field of reality are the terms so drastic. For this reason the inner self withholds much of its knowledge. There must be no leaning upon the very basic fact that behind and within the system there is relief. You must believe in the physical reality and accept the vulnerability."

—TES9 Session 498 August 25, 1969

"You can indeed levitate, but not with your physical body, practically speaking in operational terms. You accepted a body, and that body will die. It has limitations, but these also serve to highlight certain kinds of experience."
—NotP Chapter 2: Session 759, October 27, 1975

"You must understand the nature of reality before you manipulate within it intelligently and well. In this environment and in physical reality, you are learning...you are supposed to be learning...that your thoughts have reality and that you create the reality that you know. When you leave this dimension, then you concentrate upon the knowledge that you have gained. If you still do not realize that you create the reality that you know, then you return and again you learn to manipulate and again and again you see the results of your own inner reality as you meet it objectified. You teach yourself the lesson until you have learned it."
—TES9 ESP Class Notes May 20, 1969

[Deb]

The horror and the results of mismanagement, and the vulnerability, are the teaching methods that each consciousness has accepted before entering your system. There is no way out but to learn or to ruin the entire system. In no other field of reality are the terms so drastic. For this reason the inner self withholds much of its knowledge. There must be no leaning upon the very basic fact that behind and within the system there is relief. You must believe in the physical reality and accept the vulnerability.

Wow Sena, your post and especially the quotes from TES9 are powerful and get right to the heart of what we've been discussing here. I should be getting that book in the next few days, so far it's blowing me away.

[Sena]

especially the quotes from TES9 are powerful and get right to the heart of what we've been discussing here

Deb, alhough I have TES9 on my Kindle, I have not yet read all of it. This is what I found today:

"The consciousnesses that have made up your race gain valuable experience. You must not forget that the analogy between your physical reality and the dream state does have a basic truth.
Even the physical planet, having vanished, basically would continue to exist. Those responsible for such a destruction would have destroyed only reality as they knew it, in the probable system. Other probable earths and other probable races of mankind coexist, and you are apart of these also. You would be dispensing with an experiment you were not able to handle."
"Your own instinct for survival, so-called, is the result, so to speak, of experience in other systems. The original problem was far different. A way was needed to teach these personalities to focus long enough, in your terms, intensely enough, within any given reality. When the lessons are learned there is no need for physical reality." (from "The Early Sessions: Book 9 of The Seth Material" by Jane Roberts, Robert Butts)

From the Kindle edition: http://amzn.eu/fWH57xr

[jbseth]

Hi Sena,

Thank you for your awesome reply on this topic. Your capture of Seth's comments from Session 498 are very enlightening.  Even though I've been a Seth Reader for many years, I'm still constantly learning from Seth about what he had to say on many different topics.

I personally think that this session, Session 498, is one of the more interesting sessions that Seth has shared with the world. Because of this, I've quoted more of this session below.


One of the issues that I've come across with some of the Seth information, is the need to keep it all together, as much as possible. In some cases, when it's not kept together, or when only certain portions are quoted, it's easy to misinterpret it.

For example, at one point in this session, Seth says, "Larger masses of individuals than ever before in this cycle realize that killing is wrong."

Then, in the very next sentence, Seth says, "Now this cycle that I am speaking of goes back to the beginning of history as it is generally known, to your cavemen."

Without this second sentence, it would be easy for some to erroneous conclude that here, Seth was talking about a cycle that was, perhaps only a century long, or perhaps even one or two millenniums long, and apparently he was referring to a cycle that was much longer than this.


- jbseth








TES9 Session 498 August 25, 1969

[... 3 paragraphs ...]

(Before the session this evening I spent some time blowing off steam about a variety of large issues that we see reflected in our daily news media—such things as corruption, pollution, inflation, the destiny of the race if it persists in its present ways, etc. Actually I feel deeply about these things and become quite furious over actions that seem blatantly destructive to us in the long run. A rather innocent remark made by Jane shortly before 9 PM got me started, hence the session's late beginning.

[... 3 paragraphs ...]

Now. I have several things to say, and we will try to answer questions that you have in mind.

First of all, (to me) do not lose your sense of perspective, that larger perspective, that our work should give you. You are also involved in other realities and other experiments. There is more, and there are trends now in your own reality that you do not see.

Not only this, but even if the race as you know it distorts itself beyond belief, or even destroys itself, the many will not forget. The knowledge, hard won, would be as instinct when the race began again. The losers then would become stern teachers, having learned through experience.

Each experiment is a success, regardless of whether it succeeds or fails in your terms, and each experiment also brings with it new elements of creativity, new innovations having appeared. These are retained.

There are various levels all operating, various levels of consciousness and identity. They cannot be forcibly restrained, for they would learn nothing. What they do learn however is always retained. This does not mean that each succeeding earth experiment will be made up of selves who have been through these cycles.

They may be personalities new to the system, new for that matter (humorously) to any ideas, completely unused to conceptual thought or vision, beings only now emerging into strong individuality. Consciousness at your level is at a crisis point for many reasons.

Within your system, for the "first time", in quotes, individualized consciousness is strongly-enough organized to do, in quotes, "good or evil." Before that it was protected, somewhat coddled, with instinctual behavior holding it in bounds. It is not able to utilize enough energy to maintain a system of its own, but operates as an adjunct to other stronger systems.

Now some of those within your reality are having their first experience with an ego as you think of it. Others are returning to it, the system, in an effort to learn more. There are guardians, so to speak, within your system, reincarnated for the last time to help keep it in some kind of order while the others mature. There are also some, not physical, who keep an eye out over the whole proceedings.

The training is necessary. The results at any given stage may not appear very hopeful, and in your terms there is indeed what seems to be a cumulative effect. There is a system of checks and balances that do operate. These exist within the inner selves. The system of checks and balances will operate up to a point, and maintain some stability.

There are alarm signals that trigger warnings through the entire physical reality. Disaster indeed shows itself within the dream state before it appears as physical fact.

Your ego is now focused within this reality. You have other egos focused in other realities. The inner self is aware of what is being done in all of these realities. There is some compensation, and the race knows this. Ruburt wrote that there were clumps of consciousness, and of course he is correct. You are a part of many such clumps of consciousness. The abilities and potentials are not only being developed in this system but in others.

The race also realizes well the advantages and disadvantages of the physical reality it has adopted. It knows for example that there is a tendency to go to extremes. I mentioned earlier that the rewards, the challenges and the dangers exist precisely because so much freedom is allowed.

Now. Those within the system know this. Regardless of what you may think of their present performance at any given "time" in quotes, it is from this system that the greatest potentials emerge; for having dealt with it, consciousness undergoes one of the severest tests in learning to handle its own energy.

The horror and the results of mismanagement, and the vulnerability, are the teaching methods that each consciousness has accepted before entering your system. There is no way out but to learn or to ruin the entire system. In no other field of reality are the terms so drastic. For this reason the inner self withholds much of its knowledge. There must be no leaning upon the very basic fact that behind and within the system there is relief. You must believe in the physical reality and accept the vulnerability.

Now, from your system spring some of the most advanced of all identities. They go on and learn from other realities, granted, but yours is the hardest to manage, and those who accept it go off into a certain line of development where the potentials are beyond anything of which you can presently conceive.

Now I am telling you this evening not only because of your own earlier discussion, but also because this material will fit in with other sessions that I have in mind. You are not only ready for them but you are demanding them, and until you are ready you would not understand them.

First, quite simply, there are many who do not see those failings and shortcomings and trends of which you spoke earlier. They cannot be told; they learn. Now alone they would not be permitted to destroy an entire reality. The mixture of consciousness within your system gives some control. The child must mature, and your system is a maturing ground, a very primary one. A beginning school for those who are trying out for particular kinds of experience. Some simply will not succeed. They will continue instead along other lines of development.

Now, you have quite literally put in your time, for centuries. (Humorously.) This is one of the reasons that you find yourself very impatient with the development of your fellows, who have not had that advantage as yet. You have learned. You cannot understand why they have not.

There are cycles of entry into your system. Now the first, quote "mass" entries do not give you war. Those entering are at first too bewildered. Manipulation within the physical universe is strange. They do not realize the potential of their own energy, and it is not until they begin to realize it that they are, quote, "led into temptation."

They have to learn to handle it constructively. Now cooperation is an innate feature to these entering selves. Without it they could not survive long enough to learn anything. The warlike periods do not begin until this group achieves some ability at manipulation. Now while it seems to you that there has been little advance, there has indeed in the overall. Larger masses of individuals than ever before in this cycle realize that killing is wrong.

Now this cycle that I am speaking of goes back to the beginning of history as it is generally known, to your cavemen. You may take your break and we will continue.

(10:20-10:35)

Now. We will get on with some other subjects. But remember you must consider the race and its inhabitants in the entire context of existence if you are to be realistic.

END